PDA

View Full Version : The Real Deal



feudist
01-17-2006, 09:22 PM
I like St.Christophers. I want to begin my medical education there in May 06, which is the semester I have been accepted for. :). So what is GMC and if im from kentucky, am I to fear my future rotations?
I know many people have been posting information, and sitting here and reading it worries me. I want to know if everything is alright at the school, and if the Cleveland Clinic is still involved. What is the GMC, and how does their decision influence St.Chris (negative decision or positive):shock:.

Thanks!

feudist
01-17-2006, 09:28 PM
SO the issue is with the Senegal campus and the Luton campus's affiliation?

azskeptic
01-17-2006, 09:55 PM
SO the issue is with the Senegal campus and the Luton campus's affiliation? That is what the GMC has posted so far. The issue of foreign med schools locating in the UK may be the bigger issue--hard to know. you can write the GMC to ask them directly what is happening.

feudist
01-17-2006, 10:03 PM
Yes i asked them, but have not heard. I see the issue is very difficult to investigate. Any idea how long one should wait for the decision from GMC? I have till May 2006-which is when i was going to begin. Is this worth it? Im applying to saba as well now i guess.

azskeptic
01-17-2006, 10:06 PM
Yes i asked them, but have not heard. I see the issue is very difficult to investigate. Any idea how long one should wait for the decision from GMC? I have till May 2006-which is when i was going to begin. Is this worth it? Im applying to saba as well now i guess. everyone realizes it is different for each person......it is your money and time,eh? you have to figure the risk for yourself. talk to your state board and see what they tell you are the risks.

jpryor
01-18-2006, 07:46 AM
Az is right, you need to contact your own state's medical board for a decision about SC. There are some states that will not recognize a degree from the school simply because it is a squatter school and there are some states that do not consider that an issue at all.

If this current investigation is resolved in SC's favor, presumably the issue of oversight by the charter country will also be resolved. If the investigation is resolved against SC, the oversight issue becomes moot.

I seem to be in the minority, but I think the resolution will be a political one in SC's favor. If it is determined that the school prematurely claimed a charter, then the issue is limited to the students affected between 2000 and 2003. I can understand that quagmire and I don't know of a solution that is satisfying to any parties.

As far as SC's future goes, I think this will all calm down soon and life will go on. SC can be compared to an embassy in that it matters not where it is located, it remains a Senegalese school. Just because the school is located on UK soil does not give the GMC any authority over it, just as the GMC has no authority over a school in France, Italy or Jamaica. Any graduate who wants to practice in the UK must comply with the same regulations as a physician from any other country.

Magenta
01-18-2006, 12:14 PM
Its one thing for the students that are already there to try and wait this thing out, but in my opinion, its not at all smart for students who arent already there to get themselves into this situation.

Its not an acceptable thing for a school to just get suspended like this. It will most likely get reinstated at some point, but you should know that they can be suspended again in the future. They have been suspended in the past by the GMC and were re-instated, but looks like we are back to where we started now. You dont want to go through 4 (now 5) semesters in the school and then be in the position that current students are in. Most of the 5th semesters expected to go to cleveland clinic, but ended up doing classes in a hotel/podiatric school. If you call other carib schools, none of the good ones are taking transfer credits, so its not like you even have much options if you dont like the program and want to transfer out. If you read another post on this forum, you'll also find that students seem to be having quite a bit of problems obtaining transcripts.

To top it all off, despite all these problems, if the admin was helpful, we would feel better but they do nothing but lie or ignore us. Its impossible to talk to admin members without days of delay (if you're lucky). We're always short professors and have had professors leave in the middle of the semesters. The school keeps switching lab affiliations (bec most labs are not on campus). First it was Univ of Luton I think, then kings, now ucl. You never get to dissect anything, its all watch and learn. Some times, labs are on plastic dummies instead.

The library has one bookshelf. The entire school has no printers or photocopy machines. Before everyone attacks me, I'm telling him/her this bec as a potential student, i wish someone had told me all of this before i got here. I would have made a dif decision.

So in answer to your question feudist, if you get into SABA, by all means, its a better option. I know carib living isnt easy, but you will only be there for a bit and the program is a lot stronger. Other than that, St. Chris probably wont shut down or anything, so if you go there, you'll probably turn out to be a doctor in the end. You'll just be one with fewer options in terms of where you can practice or get residencies.

Also, read this forum thoroughly as well as others. Its always good to do as much research as possible.

TAFKA
01-18-2006, 12:51 PM
edited to remove text

feudist
01-18-2006, 01:02 PM
So basically, its a gamble even IF GMC does make a decision in favor of SC?

jpryor
01-18-2006, 01:07 PM
So basically, its a gamble even IF GMC does make a decision in favor of SC?

A short answer is yes. That's because some states have made an issue out of the school not being located in its country of charter.

I don't think that's a very strong legal stance, but I'm just me, flapping my lips.

smoohead
01-18-2006, 05:19 PM
As a first semester student, I don't think that being at the school itself is all that bad... I had my first anatomy lab at UCL today and it was very good. In fact, my whole class seemed impressed with what we got out of it as well as the fact that we were welcomed and treated with a decent amount of respect as fellow med students. And with regards to the professors we DO have, haven't had any issues except for with one (but it's more a personality/teaching style thing that can happen at any school :-P). I purchased my own printer, it wasn't that expensive. There is so much material and so many resources available for each class that, even if the the library DID have more books (they have more than one bookshelf, btw :-P), I would say it was too much info for me to handle. And living here is pretty good thus far even tho Luton is kind of drab.

Yeah the school is not perfect. But we need current students to report those imperfections (along with solutions) so they can fix the issues for future students. Maybe I'm just making the best of the situation...but I'm being honest.

That's just my 2 cents.

Magenta
01-18-2006, 07:04 PM
Smoohead,

There is no doubt that UCL is a great school. Its world recognized and there is no reason to complain. But we just go there for lab (and only anatomy lab at that), we dont attend school there. Neuro lab used to be there and now even that has been cancelled.

I'm actually at the lib right now and there is just that one big book shelf that serves as a partition between the study area and even that one shelf is mostly empty. There are a few books scattered here and there, but they cant exactly be called shelves.

Some profs at the school are good. In fact, one or two were great, but unfortunately, there are plenty that arent so good either.

As for bringing imperfections to the attention of the admin- have you ever tried doing that? Its next to impossible to find someone who will even listen or make time to talk to you, but even if you get that far, nothing will ever really be done about it.

My advice to all future students is to actually go to the campus and check it out. Its going to serve as a great reality check very fast.

Anyway, to answer feudists question- cleveland clinic has been cancelled for now. I personally think that it had something to do with GMC, but admin claims that they were not at all related and it had to do something with cleveland's occupancy permit or whatever. I guess it doesnt matter since the point is that its gone. Admin claims they are working on getting it back- may or may not happen, but its not a good sign that it was lost to begin with.

On a more positive note, i will say this about the school- the students are hardworking and try to make the best of the situation. It seems like they put more into supporting each other and keeping the school running than admin does.

teratos
01-19-2006, 06:34 AM
This is not SC's fault... rather, it is a reflection of the presence of other schools in the UK who truly do not have oversight from the nations that supposedly charter them. Furthermore, since a majority of SC's students intend to go to the US to practice, the GMC's opinion of SC is not of primary importance to the admin or to many students. In fact, if the possibility of ramifications in the US from a negative action against SC by the GMC didn't exist, I'm not sure that the school would be so aggressively trying to resolve this issue. Personally, I intend to practice in the UK (after residency and a few years of practice in the US), so I am particularly interested in the outcome... However, in all honesty, any ramifications of the GMC's decision as far as US licensure authorities are concerned can only be indirect since we are neither chartered nor accredited by the UK or GMC.

State Boards look for any ammo they can to shoot you down. That will be a major problem, IMHO, if you can't practice in the country where the school is located. Nevermind the location of the charter. G

smoohead
01-19-2006, 07:50 AM
No no, Magenta, I understand your point about UCL, I am just saying that at least we have a lab :-P It was rumored that there was going to be one cadaver for 50 people but the way it actually was set up wasn't really that bad, never mind UCL's rep...that's not my point. Also, thus far, I personally have only had one questionable prof. You might have had more, I don't know :-P

And yes, I do know people who have been able to get thru to admin, altho it may take a while. As a first semester, it might be harder for me to get in, but it's ok, I'm willing to work on it for as long as I am here. :) I think if we just sit there and let things stay bad, thinking it's too hard to talk to anyone, then nothing gets done, no? I think a lot of the improvements that have been made are thanks to students.

Anyhoo, I was just giving my opinion and trying to be optimistic. I came here knowing about GMC and hoping for the best and I'm going to continue to do so. But you are also entitled to your opinion. I think that, based on how I was expecting the school to be, I got what I was thinking I would get. My expectations were not phenomenally high and what I got is not that bad. Do you think you're going to transfer? Well best of luck to you :)

writesamuel
01-19-2006, 05:03 PM
Its one thing for the students that are already there to try and wait this thing out, but in my opinion, its not at all smart for students who arent already there to get themselves into this situation.

Its not an acceptable thing for a school to just get suspended like this. It will most likely get reinstated at some point, but you should know that they can be suspended again in the future. They have been suspended in the past by the GMC and were re-instated, but looks like we are back to where we started now. You dont want to go through 4 (now 5) semesters in the school and then be in the position that current students are in. Most of the 5th semesters expected to go to cleveland clinic, but ended up doing classes in a hotel/podiatric school. If you call other carib schools, none of the good ones are taking transfer credits, so its not like you even have much options if you dont like the program and want to transfer out. If you read another post on this forum, you'll also find that students seem to be having quite a bit of problems obtaining transcripts.

To top it all off, despite all these problems, if the admin was helpful, we would feel better but they do nothing but lie or ignore us. Its impossible to talk to admin members without days of delay (if you're lucky). We're always short professors and have had professors leave in the middle of the semesters. The school keeps switching lab affiliations (bec most labs are not on campus). First it was Univ of Luton I think, then kings, now ucl. You never get to dissect anything, its all watch and learn. Some times, labs are on plastic dummies instead.

The library has one bookshelf. The entire school has no printers or photocopy machines. Before everyone attacks me, I'm telling him/her this bec as a potential student, i wish someone had told me all of this before i got here. I would have made a dif decision.

I'm sorry this reply is a little bit late, but I haven't checked the site recently. I just want to say, what magenta has said is the perfect description of St. Chris. I went in my first semester as hopeful as I could be about the school (and that was before the GMC) and never talked bad about the school or the admin, and even now that I've left I try to hold my tongue when the most ridiculous things happen regarding the admin(such as me requesting to have my transcripts sent to another school and getting an email saying that all my transcripts were sent to my home, 3 sets, when I specifically gave the addresses to the schools I wanted them sent to! The email went on to say that if that wasn't correct, they could resend them. Why didn't they just send them how I requested the first time!!?) but I want people who are considering St. Chris to know they should try EVERY other option first. Don't say you can be hopeful and wait for the best in regards to the GMC and still go to the school, I think that's too much of a gamble. Prospective students, apply to all US MD schools, then apply to all US DO schools, then apply to all US PA(physician assistant) schools, then finally to foreign schools; don't underestimate yourselves and sell yourselves short regarding your education, aim for the top.

doctormua
01-20-2006, 12:11 AM
i also got into st. chris for january 2006............i decided to go to mua though........i really wanted to live in europe for 2 years, but i figured the risk was too great if something DID happen to st. chris. also, i'm from nj, and st. chris grads can't practice there in nj, b/c the school is chartered in senegal, and it is operating in the uk. so therefore, i figured, go to a proven, safe school..........................i'd hate to be at st. chris, 2 years into the program, and have the school shut down................

just my 2 cents, assess what is important to you and go for the lowest risk.........

OLDPRO
01-20-2006, 04:16 AM
The library has one bookshelf. The entire school has no printers or photocopy machines. Before everyone attacks me, I'm telling him/her this bec as a potential student, i wish someone had told me all of this before i got here. I would have made a dif decision.


Wait a minute lets be fair with the truth, I was there for 3 semesters this last year and there were many more than ONE book shelf, try at least 8 to 10 with books and a copy of current used texts. Lets tell the truth here! No not a lot of books but more than stated. Oh there are printers you have to request to printand copiers are at Staples behind the school about 500 feet so everyone goes there, coping is very cheap about 0.08 us cents a copy no school could charge less than that. :rolleyes:

smoohead
01-20-2006, 06:56 AM
ok, I thought I was hallucinating about the library...

Bhoot
01-20-2006, 07:49 AM
Again, the choice with ANY school outside of the US (if you wish to practice in the US), is to research the information yourself, contact the state/s you wish to practice in, and make your decision based on that. I am a St. Chris student (second year) and my state (Arkansas) and the general region I plan to practice (the South) , has no problems with St. Chris, has had St. Chris as residents , and speaks highly of them. While disparaging marks might be made against the South in general, it is an economically poorer area and has more trouble drawing most branches of health professions in to practice, however, ALL must be licensed with their respective professional boards to practice, so in advance, no slams on the South please.

azskeptic
01-20-2006, 09:22 AM
can anyone confirm that the Cleveland experience was actually held at a podiatry college and at a hotel, not at the Clinic?

Magenta
01-20-2006, 11:07 AM
Well, about the library- I guess it depends on how you define a shelf. To me, school library shelves are those big ones that you see in most libraries, with several partitions within each. If you are counting the partitions between that one big shelf that we have, I can see how you can say that there is more than one. Regardless, if we have to argue about how many shelves the school "library" has, its safe to assume it doesn't have too many. I'll agree, there are 3-4 copies of most of the course material, but its nowhere near what a medical library should be. Now I know this is a foreign med school, but i've even visited the carib schools and even their collections were much larger than ours.

About Cleveland- it was at a cleveland clinic affiliate hospital, not at cleveland clinic itself. I hear it was at the actual clinic for a semester before that, but then got shifted, but I can not confirm that. I CAN confirm that it is currently being held at a hotel/podiatric school. An email sent to all students from the school itself confirmed this, not to mention 5th semester students that are there right now. To top it all off, 5th semester is being taught by a guy who had his license revoked for charges of sodomy- a guy the school formerly claimed to have fired.

empathy
01-20-2006, 12:36 PM
I went to a small college. It is a good school and they don't even have a library. USC is less than 5 miles away so students go there. The two colleges have some sort of arrangement. I've never been to Luton but perhaps they have the same type set up.

Smythe
01-22-2006, 12:23 AM
. To top it all off, 5th semester is being taught by a guy who had his license revoked for charges of sodomy- a guy the school formerly claimed to have fired.
Look, the fact that a convicted sodomite is in charge of clinical students is no different than the treatment the Lutonites seem to be receiving from the administration.

Do the clinical students at least get ********?

Hey , if you're gonna get ***** you might as well enjoy it







Copyright © 2003-2018 ValueMD, LLC. All rights reserved.