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CorporateRaider
01-03-2006, 12:40 PM
Things are hot in Senegal right now.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/01/03/senegal.leader.reut/index.html

Tritonesub
01-03-2006, 05:24 PM
Precisely why we have a campus in the U.K. So people dont have to risk their lives to go to medical school.

empathy
01-03-2006, 06:22 PM
But you are only allowed to squat on the UK if you have a main campus operating in Senegal. You are not allowed to operate a UK medical college. You are chartered in Senegal - not the UK.


Precisely why we have a campus in the U.K. So people dont have to risk their lives to go to medical school.

Tritonesub
01-03-2006, 08:39 PM
We never operated a U.K. medical school. It is a senagalese school. The same procedures are required if a person went to school in nigeria and wanted to practice in the U.K. as they are for us and always have been.

neilc
01-03-2006, 08:47 PM
i am sure the GMC will consider the current political situation in senegal when assessing how much oversight is in place. it is hard to imagine that they care too much about the school when they have a significant amount of civil unrest. i would imagine that the GMC can see this as well.

maximillian genossa
01-03-2006, 09:04 PM
"We never operated a U.K. medical school. It is a senagalese school." Tell that to the PR person who bought the advertising space right here in Valuemd, top right hand, next to the Valuemd logo, I am reading it, "St. Christophers College of Medicine, Luton, England, UK research programs, Basic sciences in the United Kingdom, excellent living conditions..." bla bla.

They don't mention Senegal anywhere. Why? Because they know if they do they would barely enroll anyone in this school. I bet you that Senegal is probably not even mentioned in the diploma either. That Triton, is very appealing for misleading. If it is a Senegalese school, advertise is as such.

Of course I expect this as your reply..."have you checked the website? it mentions Senegal there" Yes, I know that, but the means to get to the website is misleading per se.





We never operated a U.K. medical school. It is a senagalese school. The same procedures are required if a person went to school in nigeria and wanted to practice in the U.K. as they are for us and always have been.

drzed
01-03-2006, 10:07 PM
Considering this website caters to US/Canadian students...it's only befitting for the banner ad to promote the campus that caters to US/Canadian students.




"We never operated a U.K. medical school. It is a senagalese school." Tell that to the PR person who bought the advertising space right here in Valuemd, top right hand, next to the Valuemd logo, I am reading it, "St. Christophers College of Medicine, Luton, England, UK research programs, Basic sciences in the United Kingdom, excellent living conditions..." bla bla.

They don't mention Senegal anywhere. Why? Because they know if they do they would barely enroll anyone in this school. I bet you that Senegal is probably not even mentioned in the diploma either. That Triton, is very appealing for misleading. If it is a Senegalese school, advertise is as such.

Of course I expect this as your reply..."have you checked the website? it mentions Senegal there" Yes, I know that, but the means to get to the website is misleading per se.

TAFKA
01-03-2006, 10:08 PM
edited to remove text

amyames
01-03-2006, 10:48 PM
true, you would not want the Luton campus stating basic sciences in Senegal, but St. Chris has to show that the Senegal campus is the main campus, and the Luton Campus is the BRANCH campus. I didn't even know St. Chris was chartered in Senegal till I saw the website. It's misleading to always portray the Luton campus as the main campus, and everyone will say, "but we don't do that, " and I'll say, "well, you make it seem that way, and you let people believe that."



and people tell me all the time, "oh I went to school in England." sure, your body was present in England, but you went to branch campus of a school in Senegal. You went to a Senegal school, you just got lucky that your branch was in the UK. Schools in the US have branch campuses but they always tie it back to the main campus, ie Edwardsville and SIU, I don't hear some St. Chris students doing that at all

.... in the SIU case, the Edwardsville campus wants to separate from SIU because it is closer to St. Louis, ect. thus, the only way St. Chris can survive is to separate from Senegal, and get a UK charter.



I just hope the admin get their act together-finally- and that the GMC decision turns out positive. happy 06' everyone :D

neilc
01-03-2006, 10:56 PM
how many times do we need to go over this...

no school (not yale, not harvard, not auc, not st chris, not your high school) puts the country of charter on it's diploma... and if st chris suggested that the luton campus conducts its basic sciences in senegal, then they'd be legally liable for misrepresentation since the basic sciences are conducted in england. do you think that auc's web banners should state "basic sciences in holland"???

mine does. it is listed on the front of the diploma, and the government has to endorse and stamp it on the back. i would be surprised if all schools did this, but it sure isn't true that none do. (btw, i don't give a rat's hairy butt what the diploma says, as long as the school is on the up and up. why should we? what is important is what the diploma will do for you...st chris' diploma value is at risk, and it didn't have a very high value to begin with!)

studentMD
01-03-2006, 11:14 PM
i dont think its unusual for a school to list the country (state, city) its based out of on its diploma, my degree clearly states thats its conferred from nevis, west indies, on the diploma it self, and its part of the seal..


my undergrad degree also states city, province of the school it was conferred at..

neilc
01-03-2006, 11:29 PM
edited to remove text

ah, the master strikes again. a sure sign of a trustworthy poster is the fact that he is so often wrong or ashamed of what he says is that everything posted is deleted.

and you have the nerve to try to make some blanket statements about agenda's being related to post count? i would say that an unsavory agenda is pretty well represented by being unwilling to stand behind what you say.

microphage
01-03-2006, 11:59 PM
mine says "Caribbean" on it... beat that!

:p

empathy
01-04-2006, 07:46 AM
Yes, I love the part in the Five Live Report where the interviewer questions the Luton branch campus as to why the brochure doesn’t mention Senegal and the guy stumbles around the question and doesn’t answer it directly. Gives us just a small glimpse at what these poor students have had to deal with.

It was COMPLETELY impossible for St. Chris to get a charter in the UK or the US thus they went to Senegal.



true, you would not want the Luton campus stating basic sciences in Senegal, but St. Chris has to show that the Senegal campus is the main campus, and the Luton Campus is the BRANCH campus. I didn't even know St. Chris was chartered in Senegal till I saw the website. It's misleading to always portray the Luton campus as the main campus, and everyone will say, "but we don't do that, " and I'll say, "well, you make it seem that way, and you let people believe that."



and people tell me all the time, "oh I went to school in England." sure, your body was present in England, but you went to branch campus of a school in Senegal. You went to a Senegal school, you just got lucky that your branch was in the UK. Schools in the US have branch campuses but they always tie it back to the main campus, ie Edwardsville and SIU, I don't hear some St. Chris students doing that at all

.... in the SIU case, the Edwardsville campus wants to separate from SIU because it is closer to St. Louis, ect. thus, the only way St. Chris can survive is to separate from Senegal, and get a UK charter.



I just hope the admin get their act together-finally- and that the GMC decision turns out positive. happy 06' everyone :D

maximillian genossa
01-04-2006, 01:49 PM
mine does. it is listed on the front of the diploma, and the government has to endorse and stamp it on the back. i would be surprised if all schools did this, but it sure isn't true that none do. (btw, i don't give a rat's hairy butt what the diploma says, as long as the school is on the up and up. why should we? what is important is what the diploma will do for you...st chris' diploma value is at risk, and it didn't have a very high value to begin with!)

I love the way that Tafka speaks in absolute terms, like for example when he says...."no school (not yale, not harvard, not auc, not st chris, not your high school) puts the country of charter on it's diploma." No school eh? Asbolutely and positively no school. I have seen diplomas from Puerto Rico, Texas, Louisiana, New York, California, Illinois, etc. and they all state where they are. Tafka, I have also seen my fair share of high school diplomas and unless I was allucinating, they have that information written on it. If I were you I would not bet a months salary on your assertion.

My diploma states where it was issued as well, so between Neil's diploma and mine, we beat Tafka's assertion.

Case closed. Next on line please!

empathy
01-04-2006, 02:30 PM
Gen...be nice.


I love the way that Tafka speaks in absolute terms, like for example when he says...."no school (not yale, not harvard, not auc, not st chris, not your high school) puts the country of charter on it's diploma." No school eh? Asbolutely and positively no school. I have seen diplomas from Puerto Rico, Texas, Louisiana, New York, California, Illinois, etc. and they all state where they are. Tafka, I have also seen my fair share of high school diplomas and unless I was allucinating, they have that information written on it. If I were you I would not bet a months salary on your assertion.

My diploma states where it was issued as well, so between Neil's diploma and mine, we beat Tafka's assertion.

Case closed. Next on line please!

teratos
01-04-2006, 04:28 PM
My diploma says so (AUC), if I recall correctly. G

teratos
01-04-2006, 04:31 PM
how many times do we need to go over this...

no school (not yale, not harvard, not auc, not st chris, not your high school) puts the country of charter on it's diploma... and if st chris suggested that the luton campus conducts its basic sciences in senegal, then they'd be legally liable for misrepresentation since the basic sciences are conducted in england. do you think that auc's web banners should state "basic sciences in holland"???


My diploma says so (AUC), if I recall correctly. Also, the "quote" function trumps the "edit" function every time. G

empathy
01-04-2006, 06:51 PM
Why do you make a comment and then edit it completely out? You've done this many many times?? A man or woman should stand behind his/her words.


edited to remove text

neilc
01-04-2006, 08:17 PM
I love the way that Tafka speaks in absolute terms, like for example when he says...."no school (not yale, not harvard, not auc, not st chris, not your high school) puts the country of charter on it's diploma." No school eh? Asbolutely and positively no school. I have seen diplomas from Puerto Rico, Texas, Louisiana, New York, California, Illinois, etc. and they all state where they are. Tafka, I have also seen my fair share of high school diplomas and unless I was allucinating, they have that information written on it. If I were you I would not bet a months salary on your assertion.

My diploma states where it was issued as well, so between Neil's diploma and mine, we beat Tafka's assertion.

Case closed. Next on line please!

this seems to be why he deletes all of his posts. they are mostly garbage. he makes ridiculous statements and can't stand by them.

this guy is a gem.

TAFKA
01-05-2006, 12:25 AM
edited to removed text

teratos
01-05-2006, 04:40 AM
****, it's just odd that you post a statement and then erase it, that's all. Also, what purpose do your posts serve if they are inaccurate? You need to re-evaluate what you post if you feel compelled to erase everything after a day.

My diploma from AUC says "given in Plymouth, Montserrat" We were still chartered in Montserrat at that time. I can scan it if you want.

G

TAFKA
01-05-2006, 06:49 AM
edited to removed text

TAFKA
01-05-2006, 06:53 AM
edited to removed text

fast12
01-05-2006, 07:20 AM
"We never operated a U.K. medical school. It is a senagalese school." Tell that to the PR person who bought the advertising space right here in Valuemd, top right hand, next to the Valuemd logo, I am reading it, "St. Christophers College of Medicine, Luton, England, UK research programs, Basic sciences in the United Kingdom, excellent living conditions..." bla bla.

They don't mention Senegal anywhere. Why? Because they know if they do they would barely enroll anyone in this school. I bet you that Senegal is probably not even mentioned in the diploma either. That Triton, is very appealing for misleading. If it is a Senegalese school, advertise is as such.

Of course I expect this as your reply..."have you checked the website? it mentions Senegal there" Yes, I know that, but the means to get to the website is misleading per se.



YOU ARE CORRECT, NO MENTION AT ALL ABOUT SENEGAL ON THE DIPLOMA!!!

empathy
01-05-2006, 07:30 AM
The biggest question is why this school is in Luton to begin with. They aren't affiliated with England in any way. They aren't even recognized by the GMC or the US. They aren't monitered or recognized by any sort of educational governing body. No one oversees what they are doing. So what are they? A business some say but can you run a medical school as a business? If it is a business and it isn't recognized anywhere then how they award a degree? And what makes them feel that this degree, earned by an education that wasn't monitered and isn't recognized, should be paid for at the expense of well over $100,000 and 4 to 6 years of a person's life? Where do they get the authority to do this? From Senegal. And they don't even pay Senegal tribute on their degree. What an ungrateful lot.


regardless of whether you were chartered in montserrat, the diploma says "given in montserrat" not "chartered in montserrat" - by that logic, st chris diplomas should say "given in new york, NY, USA" since graduation's there. or they should say "earned in luton, UK" since the campus is there." but why should st chris be compelled to include information on the nation of charter in it's diploma, when that's clearly not standard practice from other universities?

teratos
01-05-2006, 07:32 AM
regardless of whether you were chartered in montserrat, the diploma says "given in montserrat" not "chartered in montserrat" - by that logic, st chris diplomas should say "given in new york, NY, USA" since graduation's there. or they should say "earned in luton, UK" since the campus is there." but why should st chris be compelled to include information on the nation of charter in it's diploma, when that's clearly not standard practice from other universities?

I've never set foot on Montserrat. My diploma was mailed to me. Saying you went to a UK school is misleading at best. G

neilc
01-05-2006, 08:16 AM
my diploma states the city that it was issued in (prague) and the country that "has the right" to offer the degree. that sounds pretty close to charter.

it seems that while the specific word "charter" is not likely mentioned that it is still pretty clear that the country which authorizes the degree is at least occasionally mentioned. certainly not the "never" you quoted before.

neilc
01-05-2006, 08:21 AM
i think many of you are confusing a diploma stating an address/location of the university or an address/location of the place a degree was conferred with stating the nation that charters the university.

mine lists the country as the place that has the authority to confer the degree. "ie charles uni, under the authority of czech republc" to paraphrase. so, it is pretty clearly related to charter, at least in this case



and who cares if i want to erase my posts after they've served their purpose? maybe you need to re-evaluate your priorities if it upsets you that much that some guy you've never met writes something in some anonymous internet chatroom and then erases it later...

nobody cares. keep doing it. most of your posts are so wrong that the shorter they are up, the less people they will mislead.

stephew
01-05-2006, 08:40 AM
Bottom line, st chris is not a british domicile school. Period. as much as anyone may want it to be its not. To say you went to a UK medical school is willfully misleading and if that's your ethic, that's your ethic. Its like a st matt's student saying they were a part of harvard because of the faculties participation in the harvard international program, or my sayin I went to med school in the US because i did rotations in the us. One may fool themselves and those ignorant of the issues involved, but it makes you a liar about an important issue and that does not bode well for a doctor.

empathy
01-05-2006, 09:45 AM
If this is true.....I don't think St. Chris is legally allowed to print them with any reference to England. They might have to be recalled and printed correctly. St. Chris may have to pay a fine. There are laws governing how degrees can be printed. I'm sure England will have something to say about it once it is brought to their attention. It is not an English medical college and they cannot give out degrees as such. They are just renting a few buildings in Luton.


Bottom line, st chris is not a british domicile school. Period. as much as anyone may want it to be its not. To say you went to a UK medical school is willfully misleading and if that's your ethic, that's your ethic. Its like a st matt's student saying they were a part of harvard because of the faculties participation in the harvard international program, or my sayin I went to med school in the US because i did rotations in the us. One may fool themselves and those ignorant of the issues involved, but it makes you a liar about an important issue and that does not bode well for a doctor.

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 10:02 AM
not nearly as odd as a divorced lymphademic egg farmer with no experience in the medical field self-appointing himself advocate of the consumer for no financial gain and a bunch of med students believing it... i clearly outlined why i erase my posts before... because i'm restricted until the 26th of january (30 days after i changed my username) from taking the signature "formerly known as **************" off my profile and a simple google search for my name by, say, a program director leads to this site, which is an embarrassing display of puerile antics. however, despite the fact that it is what it is, there are few better sources of information for prospective students out there and my school is constantly under attack here... so, i defend it until i feel that my posts have been useful and then i delete them... not rocket surgery. You have missed the diagnosis, mispelled lymphedema (while coining a new word). and showed to PDs the kind of doctor you will make by your posts here. But other than that, you are waving the banner for your school to show the type of students that go there and that is your goal I am sure.

medox
01-05-2006, 10:13 AM
Never mind, looked up the answer.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 10:28 AM
Bottom line, st chris is not a british domicile school. Period. as much as anyone may want it to be its not. To say you went to a UK medical school is willfully misleading and if that's your ethic, that's your ethic. Its like a st matt's student saying they were a part of harvard because of the faculties participation in the harvard international program, or my sayin I went to med school in the US because i did rotations in the us. One may fool themselves and those ignorant of the issues involved, but it makes you a liar about an important issue and that does not bode well for a doctor. When people ask me I say "I attend SCCM, I did my Basic Sciences in the UK, and I'm doing the clinical portion of my program right here in the US." If they don't know much about how medical education works, I explain the basics to them. Everyone, medical and non-medical, seems happy with that answer.

You're not really bothering to mask your disdain for SCCM and its students these days are you, Steph?

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 10:38 AM
You have missed the diagnosis, mispelled lymphedema (while coining a new word). and showed to PDs the kind of doctor you will make by your posts here. But other than that, you are waving the banner for your school to show the type of students that go there and that is your goal I am sure. What's wrong with "lymphedemic"? Seems like it would be the appropriate adjective to describe someone who has lymphedema and it is one of their defining characteristics? Doesn't seem to be much different than mentioning that someone is diaphoretic...

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 10:48 AM
What's wrong with "lymphedemic"? Seems like it would be the appropriate adjective to describe someone who has lymphedema and it is one of their defining characteristics? Doesn't seem to be much different than mentioning that someone is diaphoretic... spelled correctly it is as descriptive as Transvestic or diabetic

Miklos
01-05-2006, 10:53 AM
When people ask me I say "I attend SCCM, I did my Basic Sciences in the UK, and I'm doing the clinical portion of my program right here in the US." If they don't know much about how medical education works, I explain the basics to them. Everyone, medical and non-medical, seems happy with that answer.

You're not really bothering to mask your disdain for SCCM and its students these days are you, Steph?
Allow me to echo Steph:

This is highly misleading. And besides, who do you think you are fooling?

If you aren't honest about where your diploma came from, what are you going to be honest about in medical practice?

BTW, I just took a look at my medical diploma. Like neil's, it is crystal clear on whose authority the diploma is issued and where they are located.

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 10:57 AM
Allow me to echo Steph:

This is highly misleading. And besides, who do you think you are fooling?

If you aren't honest about where your diploma came from, what are you going to be honest about in medical practice? I believe most of the venues in the US will know more as the story becomes fully reported. There are major articles coming out,from what I can see, in next 2 weeks, in major medical journals,etc. Residency Directors will know more from these trusted sources of information I would guess.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 11:09 AM
Allow me to echo Steph:

This is highly misleading. And besides, who do you think you are fooling?

If you aren't honest about where your diploma came from, what are you going to be honest about in medical practice?

BTW, I just took a look at my medical diploma. Like neil's, it is crystal clear on whose authority the diploma is issued and where they are located. How is that misleading? It's the exact truth.

Miklos
01-05-2006, 11:16 AM
How is that misleading? It's the exact truth.
Please read Steph's post [Emphasis mine]:


Bottom line, st chris is not a british domicile school. Period. as much as anyone may want it to be its not. To say you went to a UK medical school is willfully misleading and if that's your ethic, that's your ethic. Its like a st matt's student saying they were a part of harvard because of the faculties participation in the harvard international program, or my sayin I went to med school in the US because i did rotations in the us.
Allow me to extend that argument. To say that you did your basic sciences in the UK, thereby implying that you attended a UK school is equally misleading.

Miklos
01-05-2006, 11:19 AM
I believe most of the venues in the US will know more as the story becomes fully reported. There are major articles coming out,from what I can see, in next 2 weeks, in major medical journals,etc. Residency Directors will know more from these trusted sources of information I would guess.

I'd be interested in reading those.

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 11:23 AM
Please read Steph's post [Emphasis mine]:


Allow me to extend that argument. To say that you did your basic sciences in the UK, thereby implying that you attended a UK school is equally misleading. They did attend a UK school but not recognized. In this day and age of many articles on non-recognized diploma mills institutions are becoming experienced in checking out diplomas and schools. A week doesn't go by that an article on diploma mills doesn't come out.

Miklos
01-05-2006, 11:25 AM
They did attend a UK school but not recognized.
Right. That was my point, using Steph's quote.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 11:43 AM
Please read Steph's post [Emphasis mine]:


Allow me to extend that argument. To say that you did your basic sciences in the UK, thereby implying that you attended a UK school is equally misleading.You read way too far into things, and when you do this you start seeing things that don't exist.

There is no implication. It's a simple statement that is totally honest.

I do attend SCCM, I did my basic sciences at SCCM, and the campus where I did my basic sciences exists in the UK. What's so hard to understand about that?

When someone casually asks "Which medical school do you go to/Where do you attend", I don't think it's necessary to detail the exact nature of international medical education, especially to non-medical people. If anyone wants more data or information about charters, branch campuses, etc... I tell them to check out the SCCM website. All the information in available on the website, SDN, VMD, and a number of other places if they care to look it up.

It's just strange to assume that people who ask a casual question want a complete and detailed explanation about something they could probably care less about.

Miklos
01-05-2006, 11:52 AM
You read way too far into things, and when you do this you start seeing things that don't exist.

There is no implication. It's a simple statement that is totally honest.

I do attend SCCM, I did my basic sciences at SCCM, and the campus where I did my basic sciences exists in the UK. What's so hard to understand about that?

When someone casually asks "Which medical school do you go to/Where do you attend", I don't think it's necessary to detail the exact nature of international medical education, especially to non-medical people. If anyone wants more data or information about charters, branch campuses, etc... I tell them to check out the SCCM website. All the information in available on the website, SDN, VMD, and a number of other places if they care to look it up.

It's just strange to assume that people who ask a casual question want a complete and detailed explanation about something they could probably care less about.

They will assume that you are a UK educated physician. Unfortunately, until SC gains a UK charter, you are not. You are a grad of (pardon the expression) a squatter school.

SC is taking advantage of the good name and reputation of UK schools by representing itself as a school located in the UK. You, by implying that you are a UK grad are doing the same.

maximillian genossa
01-05-2006, 11:53 AM
High school diplomas are chartered by each school district and the diplomas state that as well as the state it was issued. Your count is 2 strikes, no balls and it is the bottom of the ninth dude, I don't think you will connect a home run. Bottom line , St. Chris uses Luton a s a marketing scheme since legally, and in all SENSE of the word, it is a SENEGALESE school. Unfortunately some students are reacting at this like cult members do when their group is put under the microscope.

Disclaimer...The preceding message does not imply that St. Chris is a cult or whatsover, it was meant as pure figurative speech. No offense intended.

Max








i think many of you are confusing a diploma stating an address/location of the university or an address/location of the place a degree was conferred with stating the nation that charters the university.

in most instances this is a distinction that means very little as most universities are located within the country of charter. however, as st. christopher's represents a different educational/business model, this distinction takes on a greater significance.

here's the first five pictures of legitimate diplomas that the word "diploma" turned up in a google images search:
U of Michigan: http://chrismetcalf.net/uploads/diploma.jpg
U of Maryland: http://www.sim-gbs.org/cn/news/image/Diploma.jpg
Northwestern U: http://www.biomed.mtu.edu/wright/Images/diploma.jpg
U of Ottawa: http://www.andycheah.com/files/John's%20Diploma.jpg (http://www.andycheah.com/files/John%27s%20Diploma.jpg)
U of Chicago: http://longevity-science.org/Diploma.jpg

only 1 (U of Maryland) includes anything on charter and it's the state, not the nation, to which it refers. And as for the claim that American high school diplomas indicate the country of charter, you should be aware that in every US state, it is the state government that oversees education and that neither the federal government nor the United States has a right to charter high schools.

and who cares if i want to erase my posts after they've served their purpose? maybe you need to re-evaluate your priorities if it upsets you that much that some guy you've never met writes something in some anonymous internet chatroom and then erases it later...

smoohead
01-05-2006, 11:53 AM
In all honesty, none of you were really listening to tafka, I'd get pretty irritated as well :P And Steph, you're a moderator, you're not allowed an opinion!! :lol: lol ... I don't think any of the current students (those in their right mind) would say they are UK educated. It's a blatant lie. But saying that we did basic sciences in the UK...it's the truth, no? I think this entire thread is just nit-picking and trying to dredge up the same issue again and again cuz the original GMC thread got locked.

Bottom line, st chris is not a british domicile school. Period. as much as anyone may want it to be its not. To say you went to a UK medical school is willfully misleading and if that's your ethic, that's your ethic. Its like a st matt's student saying they were a part of harvard because of the faculties participation in the harvard international program, or my sayin I went to med school in the US because i did rotations in the us. One may fool themselves and those ignorant of the issues involved, but it makes you a liar about an important issue and that does not bode well for a doctor.

maximillian genossa
01-05-2006, 11:57 AM
If that is the case, when people ask where you attended school the correct thing to say is, "I attended St. Chris a school from Senegal , with a campus in Luton, I was in the Luton campus" Bottom line is that is all St. Chris students REALITY.

There we go.



You read way too far into things, and when you do this you start seeing things that don't exist.

There is no implication. It's a simple statement that is totally honest.

I do attend SCCM, I did my basic sciences at SCCM, and the campus where I did my basic sciences exists in the UK. What's so hard to understand about that?

When someone casually asks "Which medical school do you go to/Where do you attend", I don't think it's necessary to detail the exact nature of international medical education, especially to non-medical people. If anyone wants more data or information about charters, branch campuses, etc... I tell them to check out the SCCM website. All the information in available on the website, SDN, VMD, and a number of other places if they care to look it up.

It's just strange to assume that people who ask a casual question want a complete and detailed explanation about something they could probably care less about.

stephew
01-05-2006, 12:02 PM
When people ask me I say "I attend SCCM, I did my Basic Sciences in the UK, and I'm doing the clinical portion of my program right here in the US." If they don't know much about how medical education works, I explain the basics to them. Everyone, medical and non-medical, seems happy with that answer.

You're not really bothering to mask your disdain for SCCM and its students these days are you, Steph?not at all; However I do not mask my disdain for people who enjoy misleading others. If someone feels so defensive about their school that they want to lie or come up with a mini-epic to explain that they went IMG but assure everyone that they touched US or UK soil in the process, that is their own problem.

maximillian genossa
01-05-2006, 12:02 PM
I do not think the site is trying to degrade St. Chris but rather to get them to admit what they really are, a SENEGALESE school. However, for the sake of correctnes, and since you bring up the point, I do think it is degrading for the country of Senegal to deny it. What is wrong or degrading in admitting the school is from Senegal? Simple marketing my friend, it is not convenient because you will not be able to enroll as many poeple as your school does and charge them 100k if you say it is from Senegal right up front.

It is not personal, it's just business and....ethics.







In all honesty, none of you were really listening to tafka, I'd get pretty irritated as well :P And Steph, you're a moderator, you're not allowed an opinion!! :lol: lol ... I don't think any of the current students (those in their right mind) would say they are UK educated. It's a blatant lie. But saying that we did basic sciences in the UK...it's the truth, no? I think this entire thread is just nit-picking and trying to dredge up the same issue again and again cuz the original GMC thread got locked.

stephew
01-05-2006, 12:07 PM
You read way too far into things, and when you do this you start seeing things that don't exist.

There is no implication. It's a simple statement that is totally honest.

I do attend SCCM, I did my basic sciences at SCCM, and the campus where I did my basic sciences exists in the UK. What's so hard to understand about that?
While youre question must be rhetorical, on the off chance that its not, and for others playing along at home, here is the issue: the problem is not when someone wants to know where you phyically spent a couple of years of your life. the problem is when medical students want to mask the nature of their education. St Chris is no more a UK school that SGU is a UK school although part of the education is on UK soil in both cases.

Not wanting to go into details every single time someone asks you abotu medical is fine. There's nothing wrong with not feeling compelled at every moment to go into med ed history. Its the lying to yourself or others and deliberate misdirection that's unethical. And by the way, when a harvard med student does rotations in Uganda, they don't need to tell people they graduated from medical school there.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 12:08 PM
They will assume that you are a UK educated physician. Unfortunately, until SC gains a UK charter, you are not. You are a grad of (pardon the expression) a squatter school.

SC is taking advantage of the good name and reputation of UK schools by representing itself as a school located in the UK. You, by implying that you are a UK grad are doing the same.Well, we all know what assumptions make us...

None of us have control over other people’s assumptions, and it’s unreasonable to say that we are responsible for other people’s assumptions.

stephew
01-05-2006, 12:11 PM
In all honesty, none of you were really listening to tafka, I'd get pretty irritated as well :P And Steph, you're a moderator, you're not allowed an opinion!! :lol: lol ... I don't think any of the current students (those in their right mind) would say they are UK educated. It's a blatant lie. But saying that we did basic sciences in the UK...it's the truth, no? I think this entire thread is just nit-picking and trying to dredge up the same issue again and again cuz the original GMC thread got locked.




i agree with this. And no, I don't expect everytime the issue of where you went to school comes up, one is compelled to give a dissertation on img medical education. the issue is about the poor souls who aren't at terms with the reality and try to mislead. Generally when done, ther eis no real practical implication id bet; it doesnt fool accrediting bodies and does nothing more that provide a little cheap self esteem boost in the face of casual conversation. Unlike GM i dont expect that its reaonable for every SC grad to qualify by saying "If that is the case, when people ask where you attended school the correct thing to say is, "I attended St. Chris a school from Senegal , with a campus in Luton, I was in the Luton campus" . That's silly in many cases.
but dont make an argument that you are a british med school grad.

stephew
01-05-2006, 12:12 PM
Well, we all know what assumptions make us...

None of us have control over other people’s assumptions, and it’s unreasonable to say that we are responsible for other people’s assumptions.yes one must make everyone define their terms in every instance. Lets start with what the definition of "is" is...

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 12:14 PM
...Its the lying to yourself or others and deliberate misdirection that's unethical...If you can find any of that in my statement, I would be happy to see it.

AUCMD2006
01-05-2006, 12:15 PM
"There is no implication. It's a simple statement that is totally honest."

infinite is right, it is totally honest and not many people want to know the details nor care but it is incomplete and misleading. you are manking people ssume you attended a brittish school and isn't that the reason for the uk campus? the whole alure, and reason of SC being in uk is simply to lure students to attend a school easy to get into and in a first world country..who wouldn't want that?

bottom line is that is the way the question is answered because it is true, nobody wants to hear the details and the people who actually matter, like PD's, and people involved in residency, licensure, etc so what if they use the uk as an ego booster...in the end there is no way to escape what is on the wall and all the self imposed limitations you placed on yourself.

just be careful who is around when you try and use this line to try and impress people. during a rotation we had a drug rep cater lunch for the dept when i hear this guy talking to a group of the nurses with the PD in tow and a few attendings and my residents. this guy said he went to school in england, and on and on bragging about school, really cocky attitude...

i thought he was an uptight rich kid that went to oxford when he says SC in cambridge....i let out a slightly audible huhhh...in the past few weeks, i had seen the other SC students saying the same thing (went to england for fisrt 2 years) which is true so normally i wouldn't care....but he was just such a **** i had to ask about the school a bit....

i said 'oh yea isn't that the african school with a branch campus in england?...so i asked about the set up a bit and how strange it was to go to an african school but not set foot in africa...the conversation took off from there with the PD chiming in a few colorful comments, an attending from nigeria with some choice words about the corruption in senegal, fake schools setting up and so on.

at best it was poetic justice and at least it was quite entertaining, it is not very often in a man's life when he can watch all the colors of the raimbow and the range of human emotion in under a hour with free food! it was better than the superbowl.

also just so you know, i did the same thing to a ross student who was bragging about going to ross university in new york....

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 12:19 PM
"There is no implication. It's a simple statement that is totally honest."

infinite is right, it is totally honest and not many people want to know the details nor care but it is incomplete and misleading. you are manking people ssume you attended a brittish school and isn't that the reason for the uk campus? the whole alure, and reason of SC being in uk is simply to lure students to attend a school easy to get into and in a first world country..who wouldn't want that?

bottom line is that is the way the question is answered because it is true, nobody wants to hear the details and the people who actually matter, like PD's, and people involved in residency, licensure, etc so what if they use the uk as an ego booster...in the end there is no way to escape what is on the wall and all the self imposed limitations you placed on yourself.

just be careful who is around when you try and use this line to try and impress people. during a rotation we had a drug rep cater lunch for the dept when i hear this guy talking to a group of the nurses with the PD in tow and a few attendings and my residents. this guy said he went to school in england, and on and on bragging about school, really cocky attitude...

i thought he was an uptight rich kid that went to oxford when he says SC in cambridge....i let out a slightly audible huhhh...in the past few weeks, i had seen the other SC students saying the same thing (went to england for fisrt 2 years) which is true so normally i wouldn't care....but he was just such a **** i had to ask about the school a bit....

i said 'oh yea isn't that the african school with a branch campus in england?...so i asked about the set up a bit and how strange it was to go to an african school but not set foot in africa...the conversation took off from there with the PD chiming in a few colorful comments, an attending from nigeria with some choice words about the corruption in senegal, fake schools setting up and so on.

at best it was poetic justice and at least it was quite entertaining, it is not very often in a man's life when he can watch all the colors of the raimbow and the range of human emotion in under a hour with free food! it was better than the superbowl.

also just so you know, i did the same thing to a ross student who was bragging about going to ross university in new york.... There is a doctor in NJ who lists himself as a graduate of the Cambridge Program.....that would be Kigezi.......lies will ultimately catch up with someone.

Miklos
01-05-2006, 12:20 PM
Well, we all know what assumptions make us...

None of us have control over other people’s assumptions, and it’s unreasonable to say that we are responsible for other people’s assumptions.
Sure.

When patients called me "doctor" on my clinical rotations, I immediately stopped them and corrected them. I did this everytime, even if it became annoying and even after I had introduced myself as a visiting MS.

Did this bruise my ego?

No.

When they asked which medical school, I equally had no problems telling them that I came from a Hungarian school.

smoohead
01-05-2006, 12:22 PM
But alas! I never used the word 'degrading' and I never said it was personal either, no? You guys really do jump the gun sometimes :S... Personally, I know and my parents know and everyone else who knows where I am right now and what I am doing here knows that St. Chris is a Senegalese school. There's no shame in it. I'll wear t-shirts with the Senegalese flag on them and shout it from the rooftops if I have to. I hope that future students are not so ignorant that they are mislead by the comments on this board into believing it's a UK school, say what we will, that's not our problem at all. And if the school is masking it, then it's their problem. However, it's not 100% hidden either like all you y'all are trying to say. And sure it's a business...all medical schools are businesses, even in the US. There is no other way to explain some of the stuff I've seen. It's too bad that SC has been outed as a business and a lot of other off-shore schools have not. But the truth is still there. Students who want to learn and professors and staff that want to help out are what make a medical school a place of learning..without that, it's a business.

Again, this is a nit-picky thread. I see no point to it other than trying to dredge up old arguments.



I do not think the site is trying to degrade St. Chris but rather to get them to admit what they really are, a SENEGALESE school. However, for the sake of correctnes, and since you bring up the point, I do think it is degrading for the country of Senegal to deny it. What is wrong or degrading in admitting the school is from Senegal? Simple marketing my friend, it is not convenient because you will not be able to enroll as many poeple as your school does and charge them 100k if you say it is from Senegal right up front.

It is not personal, it's just business and....ethics.

AUCMD2006
01-05-2006, 12:23 PM
Well, we all know what assumptions make us...

None of us have control over other people’s assumptions, and it’s unreasonable to say that we are responsible for other people’s assumptions.

do you honsetly beleive that when you tell people you went to med school in the UK they don't assume it is a brittish school? wether you try or not, your description of your education points in no uncertain way to a brittish education at a Uk med school. i am not saying what you say is wrong, in many cases it is the brief answer in casual conversation but you have to realize the implications of what you say as being misleading to most people who are not aware of the school status

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 12:26 PM
But alas! I never used the word 'degrading' and I never said it was personal either, no? You guys really do jump the gun sometimes :S... Personally, I know and my parents know and everyone else who knows where I am right now and what I am doing here knows that St. Chris is a Senegalese school. There's no shame in it. I'll wear t-shirts with the Senegalese flag on them and shout it from the rooftops if I have to. I hope that future students are not so ignorant that they are mislead by the comments on this board into believing it's a UK school, say what we will, that's not our problem at all. And if the school is masking it, then it's their problem. However, it's not 100% hidden either like all you y'all are trying to say. And sure it's a business...all medical schools are businesses, even in the US. There is no other way to explain some of the stuff I've seen. It's too bad that SC has been outed as a business and a lot of other off-shore schools have not. But the truth is still there. Students who want to learn and professors and staff that want to help out are what make a medical school a place of learning..without that, it's a business.

Again, this is a nit-picky thread. I see no point to it other than trying to dredge up old arguments.



Good points all around. If someone asks me "Where is SCCM chartered", "Where does your diploma come from", etc... I have no problem saying "Senegal", most people that ask find it interesting and want to know more and I explain it to them...

It's true, if they can't talk about the GMC thing, they have to find something else to harp on. I don't know why people just don't post links to the posts they made last time, it would save timeon typing them out again...

smoohead
01-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Oh..and rrod, people with cocky attitudes like that, deserve to be outed. Attitudes like that will not a good doctor make... I have never seen any of that from a St. Chris student, however, Although, you guys might have.

Maybe people feel the need to behave that way because all these schools have such a bad rep. Nobody wants to admit where they went to school unless they are extemely emotionally stable. People laugh at you and label you a failure automatically. And we all know, this is not always the case.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 12:33 PM
do you honsetly beleive that when you tell people you went to med school in the UK they don't assume it is a brittish school? wether you try or not, your description of your education points in no uncertain way to a brittish education at a Uk med school. i am not saying what you say is wrong, in many cases it is the brief answer in casual conversation but you have to realize the implications of what you say as being misleading to most people who are not aware of the school status No, I'm saying that I don't really care what other people correctly or incorrectly assume.

If they want to know if its a British medical college, they should ask rather than just assume they know the answer to something they probably don't have the slightest clue about.

When someone says something, I always ask for more information. Examples are "I graduated from Notre Dame" and I ask "Where is that?" to discern Notre Dame College and Notre Dame University. Or someone says "I graduated from Harvard" I ask "Which program?" to discern between Harvard proper and the Harvard Extension Program.

Miklos
01-05-2006, 12:41 PM
No, I'm saying that I don't really care what other people correctly or incorrectly assume.

If they want to know if its a British medical college, they should ask rather than just assume they know the answer to something they probably don't have the slightest clue about.

That IMO is pretty darn disingenuous.

You know they'll assume you come from a real UK school after you say: "I did basic sciences in the UK.", but you won't do anything to correct their assumption. Rather, you rely on it, because the truth isn't quite that flattering.

empathy
01-05-2006, 12:43 PM
How can someone open a business that charges tuition and awards medical degrees which says they were awarded for a medical program in England when they do not have a medical program that is recognized by England? The document itself can be used as proof of misrepresentation.

There is a St. Chris medical student in NM who claims to have attended St. Christopher's College of Medicine in New Jersey. Just put in St. Christopher's College of Medicine of New Jersey in Yahoo - It's the 8th one down.

AUCMD2006
01-05-2006, 12:44 PM
Oh..and rrod, people with cocky attitudes like that, deserve to be outed. Attitudes like that will not a good doctor make... I have never seen any of that from a St. Chris student, however, Although, you guys might have.

Maybe people feel the need to behave that way because all these schools have such a bad rep. Nobody wants to admit where they went to school unless they are extemely emotionally stable. People laugh at you and label you a failure automatically. And we all know, this is not always the case.

i agree, it took me a few months to be confortable telling people i went to auc, at first...it does feel like you are less of a med student until you realize that most residents/attenings whlo are familiar with a school and their students don't care and those who do probablu will not change their minds regardless of how well you do.

it also helps rotating with US students and seeing that they are just as clueless as you. you attend rounds with them, lectures, sometimes you are able to answer pimp q's sometimes they do it and by the 2nd month or so you realize just how equal you really are to them and in most cases kick yourself for being beat out by them.....

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 12:50 PM
That IMO is pretty darn disingenuous.

You know they'll assume you come from a real UK school after you say: "I did basic sciences in the UK.", but you won't do anything to correct their assumption...

How do I know they will assume this? Can I read minds? If I can, why the hell am I in medical school?

Again, as I said before, they can ask if it is a British chartered medical school and I will be happy to tell them that the school is chartered in Senegal. Also, as I said before, it isn't fair or appropriate to hold people responsible for other individuals ignorant assumptions... Why should I be held responsible for the ignorance and/or stupidity of the general public that could query for the facts of the situation rather than making an incorrect assumption? I shouldn't be.

empathy
01-05-2006, 12:56 PM
Then, why doesn't the branch in Luton make their students follow the Senagalese program? The admin set up shop in Luton and made all their own rules. The Senegalese never even inspect the school. Plus, in Senegal there is only a handful of students who speak french and in the UK you have well over a hundred American students? Your branch campus is bigger than your almost non-existant main campus? Plus, the names of the two colleges are different. What's up with that? Shouldn't the programs at the very least match up and students on both ends have to meet the same requirements to rec the same degree from the same college? It just doesn't make sense.


We never operated a U.K. medical school. It is a senagalese school. The same procedures are required if a person went to school in nigeria and wanted to practice in the U.K. as they are for us and always have been.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 12:57 PM
How can someone open a business that charges tuition and awards medical degrees which says they were awarded for a medical program in England... Can you show where the degrees say they "were awarded for a medical program in England"?

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 01:01 PM
...The Senegalese never even inspect the school... Care to verify this claim? I actually spoke to gentlemen who were from the Senegal campus at the Luton campus, to the best of my ability, given my limited and broken French...
Plus, the names of the two colleges are different... What's up with that? Really? How so?
Shouldn't the programs at the very least match up and students on both ends have to meet the same requirements to rec the same degree from the same college? It just doesn't make sense. Last I checked, colleges were allowed to offer different programs at different locations, it happens all the time here in the US...

Miklos
01-05-2006, 01:02 PM
How do I know they will assume this? Can I read minds? If I can, why the hell am I in medical school?

Again, as I said before, they can ask if it is a British chartered medical school and I will be happy to tell them that the school is chartered in Senegal. Also, as I said before, it isn't fair or appropriate to hold people responsible for other individuals ignorant assumptions... Why should I be held responsible for the ignorance and/or stupidity of the general public that could query for the facts of the situation rather than making an incorrect assumption? I shouldn't be.

The answer is blaring obvious. What else would they assume, having heard you say:

"I did my basic sciences in the UK."

Look, I think we are going in circles and there's little point to my continually pointing out what seems to be obvious to just about everyone that doesn't attend SC.

If your fragile ego demands that you mislead people about your education, go right ahead. Sooner or later it will catch up with you. If you can't be honest with yourself and cannot represent yourself honestly, well, the best of luck to you.

As far as I'm concerned, if I run across an SC student/grad in the future who misrepresents themselves in the same manner, I (just like rrod) will be certain to call them on it.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 01:04 PM
Noticed that you hit edit just in time for my quote to miss the first part of your original post.

For those that missed it, InfiniteUni originally replied (paraphrasing):

"How do I know this? If I could read minds, I wouldn't become a doctor."

Glad you edited that out, right?

The answer is blarringly obvious. What else would they assume, having hear you say:

"I did my basic sciences in the UK." Look again, when I did an edit for spelling I deleted it by accident, as soon as I noticed it was missing, I put it right back.

Miklos
01-05-2006, 01:05 PM
Look again, when I did an edit for spelling I deleted it by accident, as soon as I noticed it was missing, I put it right back.

Ok, fair enough. I'll go back and edit my post.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 01:10 PM
If your fragile ego demands that you mislead people about your education, go right ahead. Sooner or later it will catch up with you. If you can't be honest with yourself and cannot represent yourself honestly, well, the best of luck to you.

As far as I'm concerned, if I run across an SC student/grad in the future who misrepresents themselves in the same manner, I (just like rrod) will be certain to call them on it. Actually, my statement was completely honest, and rrod actually agrees with me that it is such.

Feel free to do what you want to SCCM students, if they handle it correctly, it will just make you look like the stooge you really are.

Miklos
01-05-2006, 01:18 PM
Actually, my statement was completely honest, and rrod actually agrees with me that it is such.

Feel free to do what you want to SCCM students, if they handle it correctly, it will just make you look like the stooge you really are.
Umm, that's not been my experience.

I saw an SC student make a total fool of themselves by claiming they went to an English school. Unfortunately, for that person, unbeknownest to them, a real UK student was also in attendance. You can guess the rest. I merely watched.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 01:20 PM
Umm, that's not been my experience.

I saw an SC student make a total fool of themselves by claiming they went to a UK school. Unfortunately, for that person, unbeknownest to them, a real UK student was also in attendance. You can guess the rest. I merely watched.If an SCCM student claims they went to a UK school, they deserve to be made a fool of.

stephew
01-05-2006, 01:20 PM
this is the point we were making.

stephew
01-05-2006, 01:22 PM
If you can find any of that in my statement, I would be happy to see it.if you can find me accusing you of saying that, i would be happy to see it.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 01:27 PM
this is the point we were making.Well, that's not the point you were getting across. Your previous posts seem to indicate that you believe SCCM students should be responsible for the assumptions of other people.

I have a feeling that you misunderstood my last post. I think any SCCM students that claims they attend a UK school is a fool, and should be treated as such. However, I don't feel this is appropriate for SCCM students that don't claim this, but it is assumed by other people. Individuals are responsible for their claims, but not for other peoples incorrect assumptions.

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 01:30 PM
One of the things that one on the outside wonders is if students are learning ethics in the schools. Being truthful about what you know and who taught you are important. If a school isn't telling the truth, do students get the message it is ok to skirt the truth a bit also?

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 01:32 PM
if you can find me accusing you of saying that, i would be happy to see it. Well, let's see. You were replying to my post and you said "yourself", so its reasonable to interpret it as being directed at me, is it not?

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 01:38 PM
One of the things that one on the outside wonders is if students are learning ethics in the schools. Being truthful about what you know and who taught you are important. If a school isn't telling the truth, do students get the message it is ok to skirt the truth a bit also? Aren't you the head of the AAIMG now? Since it has been under your control hasn't the AAIMG been sued by St. Matts for unethical conduct and inappropriate practices, among other things?

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 01:42 PM
Aren't you the head of the AAIMG now? Since it has been under your control hasn't the AAIMG been sued by St. Matts for unethical conduct and inappropriate practices, among other things?AAIMG is a defunct corporation. I own the domain and am preparing a new project. AAIMG lawsuit is apparently an older lawsuit but I know nothing about it since it is sealed and the plaintiff's attorney refused to give me a copy to learn what it is about.

stephew
01-05-2006, 01:43 PM
Well, that's not the point you were getting across. Your previous posts seem to indicate that you believe SCCM students should be responsible for the assumptions of other people.

I have a feeling that you misunderstood my last post. I think any SCCM students that claims they attend a UK school is a fool, and should be treated as such. However, I don't feel this is appropriate for SCCM students that don't claim this, but it is assumed by other people. Individuals are responsible for their claims, but not for other peoples incorrect assumptions.i understood your point very well and i think my comments were pretty clear. You decided to argue with them when I never pointed them at you; specifically, of assusing me of having something personally against the school it self if youre that interested, re read the thread

smoohead
01-05-2006, 01:46 PM
This is off topic...however, anyone who speaks of 'ethics' needs to go back to med school ethics 101 and realize there is much more to the subject than the self-misrepresentation students do about their schooling. If telling lies about their education is unethical for a SC grad, then being unreasonable, biased, and making circular arguments should be unethical for all you grads of other medical schools as well. See how silly that sounds?

So, is it over yet? *bored* :bored:



Aren't you the head of the AAIMG now? Since it has been under your control hasn't the AAIMG been sued by St. Matts for unethical conduct and inappropriate practices, among other things?

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 01:49 PM
i understood your point very well and i think my comments were pretty clear. You decided to argue with them when I never pointed them at you; specifically, of assusing me of having something personally against the school it self if youre that interested, re read the thread Steph, regardless of what you post, your true feelings about SCCM and its students are crystal clear...

It's funny that you criticize students for what you feel is "dishonest" behavior, when it's quite obvious you are being less than honest about your views regarding SCCM and its students...

Talk about being disingenuous...

This applies to everyone here that posts and tries to claim they are "unbiased", you aren't fooling anyone...

teratos
01-05-2006, 02:08 PM
Steph, regardless of what you post, your true feelings about SCCM and its students are crystal clear...

It's funny that you criticize students for what you feel is "dishonest" behavior, when it's quite obvious you are being less than honest about your views regarding SCCM and its students...

Talk about being disingenuous...

This applies to everyone here that posts and tries to claim they are "unbiased", you aren't fooling anyone...

You are reading too far into it. I think your admin stinks. You can defend them all you want, but they have been less than honest in the past. The problems date back from the early days of SC. Go back to the Network54 archives and look at some of the scare tactics they used to scare people away from Caribbean schools. IPs were always traced to Luton. Stories of rapes of students on the various islands that weren't true etc. I hope things work out for the sake of the students who have invested their time, energy, and plenty of money in the school. G

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 02:24 PM
You are reading too far into it. I think your admin stinks. You can defend them all you want, but they have been less than honest in the past. The problems date back from the early days of SC. Go back to the Network54 archives and look at some of the scare tactics they used to scare people away from Caribbean schools. IPs were always traced to Luton. Stories of rapes of students on the various islands that weren't true etc. I hope things work out for the sake of the students who have invested their time, energy, and plenty of money in the school. G So that's what this is about for some of the people on here? Revenge? Try to stomp a school that may have stomped on you...? (IPs are great, but that doesn't prove much of anything, it could very well have been a rotten egg of a student and not the admin)?

Trust me, I don't defend the admin. of my school when they do crappy things. If you know my post history, then you know I have stomped on them myself when they have tried to pull crap They do stink sometimes, and quite possibly most of the time, but the same can be said about every other admin. in the IMG game. The "less than honest" line can also be applied to every other IMG admin as well. You show me an IMG admin that is and has always been squeaky clean, and I will show you a pig that can fly under its own power.

So we, as the current students of SCCM, have to tolerate crap from other users that have a bone to pick with the school from years ago, when we weren't even students, based on IP addresses that were traced back to the town the school is located in without any proof of who was posting the garbage?

Does this sound more than a little demented to anyone other than myself?!?

stephew
01-05-2006, 02:27 PM
Steph, regardless of what you post, your true feelings about SCCM and its students are crystal clear...

It's funny that you criticize students for what you feel is "dishonest" behavior, when it's quite obvious you are being less than honest about your views regarding SCCM and its students...

Talk about being disingenuous...

This applies to everyone here that posts and tries to claim they are "unbiased", you aren't fooling anyone...now now; don't generalize my views towards particular sccm students (for instance, those who want to put words in other's mouths rather than really discuss a point, or those who might create multiple accounts to pose as different people), to my feeling for the whole student body.

Nebakanezer
01-05-2006, 02:41 PM
now now; don't generalize my views towards particular sccm students (for instance, those who want to put words in other's mouths rather than really discuss a point, or those who might create multiple accounts to pose as different people), to my feeling for the whole student body. It would be interesting to find out if you are just all bark or there is some real bite behind your online persona.

stephew
01-05-2006, 02:43 PM
i have no idea what that means

bts4202
01-05-2006, 04:33 PM
This whole thread is really stupid. If an individual misrepresents themselves, then they are to blame, not a school.

I met a Ross kid about a month ago who said he went to medical school in NY. He is a real idiot cause his application packet that the PD interviewing him would see says "DOMINICA"

I met an AUC kid just a couple days ago who said "I am at UNC-Chapel hill". He even said that in front of the entire morning report. After some harrassing, it was obvious that he was doing a couple electives at UNC and was an AUC student.

So please, give the ** "do you learn ethics in school" a rest. You find idiots everywhere. In casual conversation, I simply say "I went to SCCM". If they say where is that, the I say "The campus I attended was in england". If they want to know more, then I tell them but otherwise there is no point going into details they do not care about. In detailed conversations, such as with a PD, I give the full explanation starting with "SCCM is a senegalese school with a branch campus in Luton, England. I attended that campus". Although, it is not really neccesary because on my paperwork it says in big letters "SENEGAL".

empathy
01-05-2006, 04:41 PM
Call the Senegal Campus...many others here have and reported back. The handful there cannot speak english. Just read the report filed with the state of NJ. The main campus in Senegal isn't a campus at all. Also, you will never see a US college grant a degree without:

1.) Degree granting authority from the US.
2.) The name of the state where the college is based. (Unless of course it is a diploma mill. But those don't last long. Oregon shuts them down.)

We have gotten off track here because we cannot compare this college to any college in the US. It's like comparing apples to fruit rollups. The US would never grant it a charter neither would the UK. A school like this only has one option and that is to get a Charter through a third world country i.e. Senegal.





Care to verify this claim? I actually spoke to gentlemen who were from the Senegal campus at the Luton campus, to the best of my ability, given my limited and broken French... Really? How so? Last I checked, colleges were allowed to offer different programs at different locations, it happens all the time here in the US...

teratos
01-05-2006, 04:45 PM
So that's what this is about for some of the people on here? Revenge? Try to stomp a school that may have stomped on you...? (IPs are great, but that doesn't prove much of anything, it could very well have been a rotten egg of a student and not the admin)?

Trust me, I don't defend the admin. of my school when they do crappy things. If you know my post history, then you know I have stomped on them myself when they have tried to pull crap They do stink sometimes, and quite possibly most of the time, but the same can be said about every other admin. in the IMG game. The "less than honest" line can also be applied to every other IMG admin as well. You show me an IMG admin that is and has always been squeaky clean, and I will show you a pig that can fly under its own power.

So we, as the current students of SCCM, have to tolerate crap from other users that have a bone to pick with the school from years ago, when we weren't even students, based on IP addresses that were traced back to the town the school is located in without any proof of who was posting the garbage?

Does this sound more than a little demented to anyone other than myself?!?

No, I don't like the idea that you guys have to put up with so much crap. I think it is especially bad at this time when things are in such turmoil. I was trying to say that SC admin really has a negative connotation in some people's minds, and pointing out the reason why. In no way am I attempting to imply that any of the people currently on the board are responsible. I do feel for you guys, and hope things turn out in your favor. G

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 04:45 PM
GMC and the NHS Fraud Control Unit will provide alot of information to us all at some point. Agreed that until then we are just talking.

bts4202
01-05-2006, 04:48 PM
Call the Senegal Campus...many others here have and reported back. The handful there cannot speak english. Just read the report filed with the state of NJ. The main campus in Senegal isn't a campus at all. .

Story of one girls trip to St. Chris Senegal and our regional clinics:

http://www.stchris.edu/media/downloads/amsa/my_trip_africa.pdf

teratos
01-05-2006, 04:51 PM
This whole thread is really stupid. If an individual misrepresents themselves, then they are to blame, not a school.

I met a Ross kid about a month ago who said he went to medical school in NY. He is a real idiot cause his application packet that the PD interviewing him would see says "DOMINICA"

I met an AUC kid just a couple days ago who said "I am at UNC-Chapel hill". He even said that in front of the entire morning report. After some harrassing, it was obvious that he was doing a couple electives at UNC and was an AUC student.

So please, give the ** "do you learn ethics in school" a rest. You find idiots everywhere. In casual conversation, I simply say "I went to SCCM". If they say where is that, the I say "The campus I attended was in england". If they want to know more, then I tell them but otherwise there is no point going into details they do not care about. In detailed conversations, such as with a PD, I give the full explanation starting with "SCCM is a senegalese school with a branch campus in Luton, England. I attended that campus". Although, it is not really neccesary because on my paperwork it says in big letters "SENEGAL".

I hate when people do that. I think it is unethical to say what you have pointed out, bts4202, for anyone from any school. You do find idiots everywhere. There is no shortage at any Caribbean school, which is why many of the people are there to begin with. You should "out" them. I rotated with people who did the same thing. I always found it annoying. G

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 06:00 PM
Story of one girls trip to St. Chris Senegal and our regional clinics:

http://www.stchris.edu/media/downloads/amsa/my_trip_africa.pdf BTS, how about recent stories/visits?

azskeptic
01-05-2006, 07:08 PM
I hate when people do that. I think it is unethical to say what you have pointed out, bts4202, for anyone from any school. You do find idiots everywhere. There is no shortage at any Caribbean school, which is why many of the people are there to begin with. You should "out" them. I rotated with people who did the same thing. I always found it annoying. G Reminds me of a certain "Yale" graduate/Nobel Prize winner conversation we all had for a while.......

empathy
01-05-2006, 08:22 PM
Leave Stephew alone. He has always been more than fair with everyone. He put up with all the crazy rumors over the years which never panned out. These rumors lured new students in and gave old ones false hope. They hurt a lot of people.

BTS did the paperwork get delivered to the GMC? Remember you were waiting for the GMC to open up after the holidays? These papers were suppose to clear up everything. Also, Whuds, whatever happened with the lawsuit against the BBC? Remember St. Chris was suing them for their report?

We may not say what students want to hear but we do try to help them and have their best interest at heart. We tell the truth. At the end of our lives it won't matter how much we had only how much we gave.


It would be interesting to find out if you are just all bark or there is some real bite behind your online persona.

bts4202
01-05-2006, 10:00 PM
BTS, how about recent stories/visits?

Actually, yes, I should have some soon. I have a friend who is supposed to go down soon and who promised to take lots of pics for me. I even asked her to get some audio/video interviews with some people if possible. However, it is not me going, so I will have to rely on someone elses timeline.

although, what we see from the visit 2 years ago wouldn't have dissappeared. If anything, it would have gotten bigger since it was after the visit written about above that St Chris senegal created agreements with the Univ of Nigeria. At least, I think it was after, hehe.

edited: BTW, i just found some better pics of senegals classrooms, dry lab, computer lab, and building (including a good pic of the sign saying "Ecole de Medicine St. Christopher's"). They are not mine so I will get permission to post them.

jpryor
01-06-2006, 08:00 AM
We may not say what students want to hear but we do try to help them and have their best interest at heart. We tell the truth.

What's with this "we" nonsense?

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 08:06 AM
Actually, yes, I should have some soon. I have a friend who is supposed to go down soon and who promised to take lots of pics for me. I even asked her to get some audio/video interviews with some people if possible. However, it is not me going, so I will have to rely on someone elses timeline.

although, what we see from the visit 2 years ago wouldn't have dissappeared. If anything, it would have gotten bigger since it was after the visit written about above that St Chris senegal created agreements with the Univ of Nigeria. At least, I think it was after, hehe.

edited: BTW, i just found some better pics of senegals classrooms, dry lab, computer lab, and building (including a good pic of the sign saying "Ecole de Medicine St. Christopher's"). They are not mine so I will get permission to post them. Yes, the picture of sign saying Ecole de Medicine notes the schools opening in 2003,eh?

empathy
01-06-2006, 08:16 AM
sorry JP the 'we' excludes 'you'. Have a good weekend!

:-miner


What's with this "we" nonsense?

jpryor
01-06-2006, 08:22 AM
They did attend a UK school but not recognized. In this day and age of many articles on non-recognized diploma mills institutions are becoming experienced in checking out diplomas and schools. A week doesn't go by that an article on diploma mills doesn't come out.


Being truthful about what you know and who taught you are important.

Anyone else see the hypocrisy here?

empathy
01-06-2006, 08:38 AM
JP - Please elaborate. The 'we' stands firmly behind Az. He Rocks!

:dancepar:

Anyone else see the hypocrisy here?

jpryor
01-06-2006, 11:46 AM
JP - Please elaborate. The 'we' stands firmly behind Az. He Rocks!

Ok...why don't we ask how many of your "we" group want to publicly commit to Az's assertion that SC is a diploma mill?

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 11:52 AM
Ok...why don't we ask how many of your "we" group want to publicly commit to Az's assertion that SC is a diploma mill? We don't know for sure if SC or the other schools on the list are diploma mills until the GMC tells us if the degrees are recognized but that wasn't what my note says. It says that institutions, in light of diploma mills, are checking accreditations,etc. closely of diplomas. So far 2 newspapers have called SC degrees worthless. That type of stuff shows up in searchs.

teratos
01-06-2006, 12:10 PM
I wouldn't call SC a "diploma mill" In my mind a "Diplomoa Mill" doesn't really offer anything other than a diploma in exchange for money and maybe just a little bit of token effort. SC certainly has a program which follows the traditional med ed model. The students seem satisfied with their education. That's what I have to go on, so I'll take their word for that aspect of it. The only real issue, in my thinking anyway, is the physical location vs. country of charter thing. G

jpryor
01-06-2006, 12:15 PM
We don't know for sure if SC or the other schools on the list are diploma mills until the GMC tells us if the degrees are recognized but that wasn't what my note says. It says that institutions, in light of diploma mills, are checking accreditations,etc. closely of diplomas. So far 2 newspapers have called SC degrees worthless. That type of stuff shows up in searchs.

I haven't misquoted you, Az. I assumed you would try to backpeddle.

maximillian genossa
01-06-2006, 12:24 PM
We don't know for sure if SC or the other schools on the list are diploma mills until the GMC tells us if the degrees are recognized but that wasn't what my note says. It says that institutions, in light of diploma mills, are checking accreditations,etc. closely of diplomas. So far 2 newspapers have called SC degrees worthless. That type of stuff shows up in searchs.

Az, I have pointed this out before and it is worth to refresh your memory. We have to be careful when we ue the term diploma mill loosely. Teratos is correct when he says that "a "Diplomoa Mill" doesn't really offer anything other than a diploma in exchange for money and maybe just a little bit of token effort." St. Chris is obviously offering something more than a diploma, the problem is as Teratos eloquently stated, the physical location vs. country of charter thing. And that is not what a diploma mill is all about.

I think your comments are irresponsible to say the least, and if the comments stem out of quoting other sources from "searches" then those are irresponsible as well. Calling a diploma "worthless" does not constitute that the source is a diploma mill when in fact it can be proved, easily otherwise.

They have physical facilities, students attend it, the school does the legwork for the students for clinical rotations, they have certain academic standards, students must pass their boards and exams etc. Besides, in the US (except certain States), their diplomas are not worthless (at least by definition)Their mistake has been the "lets get chartered in Senegal but make Luton our main campus."

You can do better Az. These comments surprise me.
Max

maximillian genossa
01-06-2006, 12:27 PM
irresponsible to imply it.



Ok...why don't we ask how many of your "we" group want to publicly commit to Az's assertion that SC is a diploma mill?

bts4202
01-06-2006, 12:29 PM
Yes, the picture of sign saying Ecole de Medicine notes the schools opening in 2003,eh?

You have asked this question many times and recieved the same answer each and every time. I refuse to answer it again, the GMC will do it for me.

empathy
01-06-2006, 12:35 PM
Gen - Az NEVER said this school is a diploma mill. Please reread what he wrote.

A diploma mill isn't simply an institution that takes money in exchange for a worthless degree. Oregon is the expert on this subject. They've shut down tons of them -- that's why the bad guys hate them.

What is a diploma mill?

Diploma mill: An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. —Webster’s Third New International Dictionary
Diploma mills (or degree mills) are substandard or fraudulent “colleges” that offer potential students degrees with little or no serious work. Some are simple frauds: a mailbox to which people send money in exchange for paper that purports to be a college degree. Others require some nominal work from the student but do not require college-level course work that is normally required for a degree.
There has been a substantial amount of media coverage about the problem of Diploma mills in recent months. Diploma mills (or degree mills) are substandard or fraudulent “colleges” that offer potential students degrees with little or no serious work. Among other activities, the Office of Degree Authorization is responsible for terminating substandard or fraudulent degree activities.

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/diploma_mill.html

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 12:41 PM
Gen - Az NEVER said this school is a diploma mill. Please reread what he wrote.

A diploma mill isn't simply an institution that takes money in exchange for a worthless degree. Oregon is the expert on this subject. They've shut down tons of them -- that's why the bad guys hate them.

What is a diploma mill?

Diploma mill: An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. —Webster’s Third New International Dictionary
Diploma mills (or degree mills) are substandard or fraudulent “colleges” that offer potential students degrees with little or no serious work. Some are simple frauds: a mailbox to which people send money in exchange for paper that purports to be a college degree. Others require some nominal work from the student but do not require college-level course work that is normally required for a degree.
There has been a substantial amount of media coverage about the problem of Diploma mills in recent months. Diploma mills (or degree mills) are substandard or fraudulent “colleges” that offer potential students degrees with little or no serious work. Among other activities, the Office of Degree Authorization is responsible for terminating substandard or fraudulent degree activities.

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/diploma_mill.html Thats the case.

Whether SC students want to admit it or not, their schools diplomas have been called worthless in 2 newspaper articles and a major radio report. My point is that type of damage, in light of the increased awareness of diploma mills like St. Regis, St. Luke,etc. are causing agencies, residency directors, hospitals, insurance companies, and licensing authorities to look hard at offshore schools.

jpryor
01-06-2006, 12:45 PM
Nice try, Az, but restating your position does not alter the fact that you attempted to portray SC as a diploma mill and I called your ethics into question. Or can't you be honest?

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 12:48 PM
Nice try, Az, but restating your position does not alter the fact that you attempted to portray SC as a diploma mill and I called your ethics into question. Or can't you be honest? We are waiting to hear from the GMC if it is a diploma mill or not. I am sure that we'll know something one of these days. Not liking what someone says like myself doesn't make it untrue...just makes it uncomfortable for you. Your constant attacks are noted.

bts4202
01-06-2006, 12:54 PM
We are waiting to hear from the GMC if it is a diploma mill or not. I am sure that we'll know something one of these days. Not liking what someone says like myself doesn't make it untrue...just makes it uncomfortable for you. Your constant attacks are noted.

That is right. The GMC will tell us the answer. 2 media reports in 5 years does not make a school a diploma mill. We will see if you are just a "consumer advocate" when the GMC results come out. If they are in St. Chris' favor, then we should expect to see you drop this diploma mill nonsense as well as your incessant questioning of the niass university opening date.

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 12:56 PM
That is right. The GMC will tell us the answer. 2 media reports in 5 years does not make a school a diploma mill. We will see if you are just a "consumer advocate" when the GMC results come out. If they are in St. Chris' favor, then we should expect to see you drop this diploma mill nonsense as well as your incessant questioning of the niass university opening date. I am trusting of the GMC and the NHS Fraud Control Unit's thoroughness in the research. Do you trust them?

jpryor
01-06-2006, 12:57 PM
We are waiting to hear from the GMC if it is a diploma mill or not. I am sure that we'll know something one of these days. Not liking what someone says like myself doesn't make it untrue...just makes it uncomfortable for you. Your constant attacks are noted.

Excuse me, but I haven't heard anything from the GMC that indicates it considers SC a diploma mill. Your constant attempt to portray it as one is unethical. If you consider that a personal attack, then I'd have to equate your reasoning abilities as low as your ethics.

empathy
01-06-2006, 12:58 PM
JP - It's obvious what you are trying to do. Bottom line is Az didn't flame...he didn't call St. Chris a diploma mill. Az is one of the most honest people on this site. You all have paper trails that can serve as proof of ethics. Let's compare your posts to his over the years and see what happens...... We'll go back a few years and cross reference all students sites on the web and just for sure measure we'll throw in BTS's post as well.


Nice try, Az, but restating your position does not alter the fact that you attempted to portray SC as a diploma mill and I called your ethics into question. Or can't you be honest?

maximillian genossa
01-06-2006, 01:25 PM
Empathy, I do not want to engage in a fruitless discussion with you but you said it yourself, per the definition you quoted...."Diploma mills (or degree mills) are substandard or fraudulent “colleges” that offer potential students degrees with little or no serious work. Some are simple frauds: a mailbox to which people send money in exchange for paper that purports to be a college degree. Others require some nominal work from the student but do not require college-level course work that is normally required for a degree."

To be impartial, St. Chris does not qualify under any of the aforementioned definitions since they seem to be offering a diploma in exchange for what at prima facie looks like substantial effort in exchange for serious effort and work. St. Chris is asking for required college-level work. I am not a big fan of St. Chris, but I can be objective as well.

Lets stick to the main issue, and that is their charter in one country but using another one as their main campus, the 'squatting" issue.



Max






Gen - Az NEVER said this school is a diploma mill. Please reread what he wrote.

A diploma mill isn't simply an institution that takes money in exchange for a worthless degree. Oregon is the expert on this subject. They've shut down tons of them -- that's why the bad guys hate them.

What is a diploma mill?

Diploma mill: An institution of higher education operating without supervision of a state or professional agency and granting diplomas which are either fraudulent or because of the lack of proper standards worthless. —Webster’s Third New International Dictionary
Diploma mills (or degree mills) are substandard or fraudulent “colleges” that offer potential students degrees with little or no serious work. Some are simple frauds: a mailbox to which people send money in exchange for paper that purports to be a college degree. Others require some nominal work from the student but do not require college-level course work that is normally required for a degree.
There has been a substantial amount of media coverage about the problem of Diploma mills in recent months. Diploma mills (or degree mills) are substandard or fraudulent “colleges” that offer potential students degrees with little or no serious work. Among other activities, the Office of Degree Authorization is responsible for terminating substandard or fraudulent degree activities.

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/diploma_mill.html

jpryor
01-06-2006, 01:27 PM
Empathy, we all know Azskeptic. He hardly needs a sycophant. If you care to review his enumerable posts, feel free. There are many of us who question his intent and frequently, we take issue with him. As in this current spat, he clearly tried to portray SC as a diploma mill right after lecturing on ethics. Please note his whine in alleging that pointing out that hypocrisy was a personal attack.

maximillian genossa
01-06-2006, 01:28 PM
We are adults here, we are not stupid, we know how to read between the lines and again, I am not going to engage in a tug of war with you but Az implied that St. Chris is a "diploma mill".


JP - It's obvious what you are trying to do. Bottom line is Az didn't flame...he didn't call St. Chris a diploma mill. Az is one of the most honest people on this site. You all have paper trails that can serve as proof of ethics. Let's compare your posts to his over the years and see what happens...... We'll go back a few years and cross reference all students sites on the web and just for sure measure we'll throw in BTS's post as well.

medox
01-06-2006, 01:30 PM
Does anybody else who is following this discussion (as well as other discussions) about SC sense that the opposing sides are being superficially civil to abide by the TOS but beneath the surface they really hate each other?

maximillian genossa
01-06-2006, 01:32 PM
We are waiting to hear from the GMC if it is a diploma mill or not. I am sure that we'll know something one of these days. Not liking what someone says like myself doesn't make it untrue...just makes it uncomfortable for you. Your constant attacks are noted.

GMC is not investigating if St. Chris is a diploma mill, that might be a side effect of their investigation but the real purpose is to verify the origins of the chartered school in Senegal and its relationship with the Luton campus, or what they and most people are calling squatting as a result from a BBC investigation.

Now that you mention it, lets wait and see what happens and refrain from irresponsible comments like you did a moment ago.

Before anyone accuses me of being an "apoligist for the schools", check the question about St. Chris I dropped at the Relaxing Lounge a moment ago.



No big deal.

teratos
01-06-2006, 01:42 PM
Does anybody else who is following this discussion (as well as other discussions) about SC sense that the opposing sides are being superficially civil to abide by the TOS but beneath the surface they really hate each other?Are you kidding? Of course that's the case....;)

maximillian genossa
01-06-2006, 01:46 PM
Anything else will be ridiculous... :)



Are you kidding? Of course that's the case....;)

empathy
01-06-2006, 01:50 PM
You are reaching...... Az is a good guy and we all know it. He volunteers his time to help students. No one here wants to see anyone get taken advantage of.

All the GMC started out doing was verifying the info in the BBC report and then they brought in NHS to do the rest. Subtract the emotion and think like a lawyer. We know a lot about what's been going on from the Five Live Report. We found out about the admins background. But really we didn't find out anything that hadn't been posted here on ValueMD for years. The BBC could have saved on airfare to Senegal by just logging onto ValueMD.


Empathy, we all know Azskeptic. He hardly needs a sycophant. If you care to review his enumerable posts, feel free. There are many of us who question his intent and frequently, we take issue with him. As in this current spat, he clearly tried to portray SC as a diploma mill right after lecturing on ethics. Please note his whine in alleging that pointing out that hypocrisy was a personal attack.

medox
01-06-2006, 02:01 PM
Are you kidding? Of course that's the case....;)

I didn't really mean you teratos since you already have your degree. But with some others you can sense the anger through the computer, and a few you can tell they are posting in a way that is civil on the surface but at the same written with the intent of taunting the SC crowd.

The funniest ploy I've seen so far is one that keeps repeating itself over and over again, and goes something like "Let's wait to see what the GMC decides on because everything we're saying now is just speculation"---which is then immediately followed by more speculations and taunting language. :p

It would be interesting to see what would happen if some of these people ever met face to face in real life.

bts4202
01-06-2006, 02:03 PM
It would be interesting to see what would happen if some of these people ever met face to face in real life.

You have no idea how many delightful daydreams I have had with that exact scenario!!

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 02:04 PM
I didn't really mean you teratos since you already have your degree. But with some others you can sense the anger through the computer, and a few you can tell they are posting in a way that is civil on the surface but at the same written with the intent of taunting the SC crowd.

The funniest ploy I've seen so far is one that keeps repeating itself over and over again, and goes something like "Let's wait to see what the GMC decides on because everything we're saying now is just speculation"---which is then immediately followed by more speculations and taunting language. :p

It would be interesting to see what would happen if some of these people ever met face to face in real life. I was in London last January and invited all to come and talk. I shall be at the FSMB meeting in April in Boston if anyone wants to talk there.

teratos
01-06-2006, 02:08 PM
I didn't really mean you teratos since you already have your degree.

I didn't take it that way. You can feel the tension even though it is typed text. There is some real hatred here. We all just need a good group hug. G

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 02:11 PM
I didn't take it that way. You can feel the tension even though it is typed text. There is some real hatred here. We all just need a good group hug. G

Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

teratos
01-06-2006, 02:12 PM
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s laughing, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s crying, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s praying, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
Someone’s singing, Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
Kum ba yah, my Lord, kum ba yah!
O Lord, kum ba yah!

That's the spirit...EVERYBODY SING :dancepar:

empathy
01-06-2006, 02:17 PM
naaa, I feel nothin' but love for these guys.

:-kissey


Does anybody else who is following this discussion (as well as other discussions) about SC sense that the opposing sides are being superficially civil to abide by the TOS but beneath the surface they really hate each other?

medox
01-06-2006, 02:18 PM
I gotta ask:

Do the SC students think some people posting here have the agenda to ultimately close down SC or make its degree invalid in America, but are shrouding that agenda under the impression that they are "just looking out for the students"?

empathy
01-06-2006, 02:26 PM
I'm going to leave this one for Neil. He loves questions like this.


I gotta ask:

Do the SC students think some people posting here have the agenda to ultimately close down SC or make its degree invalid in America, but are shrouding that agenda under the impression that they are "just looking out for the students"?

teratos
01-06-2006, 02:35 PM
I gotta ask:

Do the SC students think some people posting here have the agenda to ultimately close down SC or make its degree invalid in America, but are shrouding that agenda under the impression that they are "just looking out for the students"?

I will give my unsolicited opinion. I think there are people who would be really excited if SC closed down. I think they are not the same people you are thinking of, though. G

jpryor
01-06-2006, 02:43 PM
None will admit it, though.

Miklos
01-06-2006, 02:50 PM
I will give my unsolicited opinion. I think there are people who would be really excited if SC closed down. I think they are not the same people you are thinking of, though. G
Well, the obvious beneficiaries IMO would be:

Established Carib. schools
British schools
And by extension schools in Europe with English language programs

neilc
01-06-2006, 02:59 PM
I gotta ask:

Do the SC students think some people posting here have the agenda to ultimately close down SC or make its degree invalid in America, but are shrouding that agenda under the impression that they are "just looking out for the students"?

not me. i do think that a few of the students have been very misleading, and the admin seems less than honest to me.

but, there are quite a few innocent students who would be screwed if the school shut down.

i just want the school, admin and students to be honest to potential students about the risks. then anybody who goes there has to deal with what they get. as it is now, i get tons of email from people who were decieved by admin and students into believing st chris was as safe as any carib school. that is just wrong.

neilc
01-06-2006, 03:02 PM
Well, the obvious beneficiaries IMO would be:

Established Carib. schools
British schools
And by extension schools in Europe with English language programs

when people accuse me of being out to crush st chris, or being a basher, i constantly wonder what on earth they think is in it for me.

the school has a good reason to decieve and paint a rosy pic. the competitors could benefit from the schools failure. but, most of us on here are just nobody's and the end result doesnt affect us at all....

i think the established carib schools couldnt care less, as st chris gets the flunkies or those that couldn't get in anyhow. the brits would prob love the school to disappear. but, the big beneficiaries would be the smaller and newer carib schools.

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 03:05 PM
email the staff at the other medical school in Senegal and ask them what they know

http://www.ucad.sn/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=124

empathy
01-06-2006, 03:15 PM
what do you want the email to say?


email the staff at the other medical school in Senegal and ask them what they know

http://www.ucad.sn/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=124

azskeptic
01-06-2006, 03:21 PM
what do you want the email to say?write them and ask them if they know the history of the St. Chris/other name school, when it started? good.

empathy
01-06-2006, 03:29 PM
Please write the email. I'll translate it and you can email it to them. Thank you.


write them and ask them if they know the history of the St. Chris/other name school, when it started? good.

teratos
01-06-2006, 03:30 PM
Well, the obvious beneficiaries IMO would be:

Established Carib. schools
British schools
And by extension schools in Europe with English language programs

I don't think the established Caribbean schools care. They have more applicants than spots. I don't believe it has hurt business very much. Just my 2 cents. G

bts4202
01-06-2006, 03:32 PM
Please write the email. I'll translate it and you can email it to them. Thank you.

I have been searching that website, I can find no links to emails, if you find one, send it to me and I will email them as well.

jpryor
01-06-2006, 03:32 PM
According to their web site, these are the only scholastic programs they offer.

Higher Politechnique Schools (Esp):

Data-processing Genie:
Electric Genie:
Chemical Genie:
Civil Genie:
Mechanical Genie:


School of the Librarians, Archivists and Documentalists:


Teacher training school Superior:


Center dEtudes Sciences and Technology of lInformation (CESTI):


Institute Higher of Gestion(ISG):

Miklos
01-06-2006, 03:36 PM
According to their web site, these are the only scholastic programs they offer.

Higher Politechnique Schools (Esp):

Data-processing Genie:
Electric Genie:
Chemical Genie:
Civil Genie:
Mechanical Genie:


School of the Librarians, Archivists and Documentalists:


Teacher training school Superior:


Center dEtudes Sciences and Technology of lInformation (CESTI):


Institute Higher of Gestion(ISG):

I believe you are mistaken. This clearly looks like a French course of study in medicine to me. They use the same abbreviations as the French PCEM, etc... http://www.ucad.sn/article.php3?id_article=302

Also, http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucad.sn%2Farticle.php 3%3Fid_article%3D335&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

bts4202
01-06-2006, 03:40 PM
The problem is the language and culture barrier. Different things have different names than they do in america. To find the medical school you must look under "faculties", to find some of the other schools it is under "schools". That is why some random BBC person who speaks french can't call up the dept of higher education and have an intellegent conversation. The system and names are different, it is not just about translation.

Miklos
01-06-2006, 03:44 PM
The problem is the language and culture barrier. Different things have different names than they do in america. To find the medical school you must look under "faculties", to find some of the other schools it is under "schools".
Agreed.


That is why some random BBC person who speaks french can't call up the dept of higher education and have an intellegent conversation. The system and names are different, it is not just about translation.
I think you are dead wrong here. The resources of the BBC are not be underestimated. Please see http://www.bbc.co.uk/french/ and take note the name of the service: BBCAfrique.com :!:

bts4202
01-06-2006, 03:46 PM
yes, the resources of the main BBC Afrique or the TV news cast would be adequate. But not some little side radio program.. sorry.

jpryor
01-06-2006, 03:47 PM
Thanks, Miklos, you're right.

Miklos
01-06-2006, 03:54 PM
yes, the resources of the main BBC Afrique or the TV news cast would be adequate. But not some little side radio program.. sorry.
You've never worked for a large corporation, have you?

I have, in a very itty-bitty position.

However, when I needed (and my bosses decided they or the department I was working in) a resource from another department or flung-off satellite, I could get it without a problem (this included translation services by native speakers, btw).

How would I do that? I went on the intra-web page and found the department and services, dialled the intra-company extension (btw, sometimes I was literally placing a call across the planet) and found out what authorization they needed. Usually none, all they cared about was whether my department would authorize the intercompany charge (e.g. get billed for it). Sometimes, I simply needed my boss (or very rarely his boss) to authorize the project.

I have little doubt that the BBC operates in a very similar manner. Otherwise there would be no economy of scale and they'd be out of business.

jpryor
01-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Please write the email. I'll translate it and you can email it to them. Thank you.

Here's the email address: [email protected] ([email protected])

That's from a post Az did in another thread.

empathy
01-06-2006, 05:59 PM
I know this issue seems huge to you because you most likely paid a small fortune for your degree. And that fact makes me very sad. I wish I could change things for you. But we are talking about a small medical college chartered in a third world country and founded by well...listen to the report for credentials. This is not prime time material. The Five Live Report caused the GMC to open an investigation. Not bad for 'some little side radio program'.


yes, the resources of the main BBC Afrique or the TV news cast would be adequate. But not some little side radio program.. sorry.

bts4202
01-08-2006, 12:32 PM
Well, I am preparing some stuff to release as well. Apparently the medical college in senegal is not so small or insignificant as you claim. We will see how the GMC responds.

azskeptic
01-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Well, I am preparing some stuff to release as well. Apparently the medical college in senegal is not so small or insignificant as you claim. We will see how the GMC responds. Why would you need to do it...the Senegalese ambassador and attorney,etc. have provided all to the GMC already I thought.

bts4202
01-08-2006, 12:45 PM
Why would you need to do it...the Senegalese ambassador and attorney,etc. have provided all to the GMC already I thought.

My stuff is not aimed at the GMC, that is being dealt with by the school and senegal.

edit: ahh, I reread, my post, it was confusin.. sorry. My quote "we will see how the GMC responds" was just in respons to the spamming of empathy. That is my standard line to him.

empathy
01-08-2006, 02:00 PM
How would a student even have access to, "some stuff to release as well". What are you going to send them class schedules, brochures, transcripts, print outs from ValueMD? Let me ask you this since you seem to have access to important docs -- have you ever even seen the Charter?

You were a 4th year student in 2003. In your efforts to help you might send something that hurts their case. I wouldn't send the GMC anything if I were you -- just let the lawyers handle it.



Well, I am preparing some stuff to release as well. Apparently the medical college in senegal is not so small or insignificant as you claim. We will see how the GMC responds.

OLDPRO
01-08-2006, 02:47 PM
How would a student even have access to, "some stuff to release as well". What are you going to send them class schedules, brochures, transcripts, print outs from ValueMD? Let me ask you this since you seem to have access to important docs -- have you ever even seen the Charter?

You were a 4th year student in 2003. In your efforts to help you might send something that hurts their case. I wouldn't send the GMC anything if I were you -- just let the lawyers handle it.
Empathy, BTS was not a 4th year in 2003, he was a 4th semester student. In offshore Medschools we have 3 semesters a year and many of us use semesters to identify where we are in the process, so a 1st year student will have 3 semesters that year. Hope this clears this up.

;)

empathy
01-08-2006, 03:33 PM
Welcome back Whuds. We missed you.

:-rainbow


Empathy, BTS was not a 4th year in 2003, he was a 4th semester student. In offshore Medschools we have 3 semesters a year and many of us use semesters to identify where we are in the process, so a 1st year student will have 3 semesters that year. Hope this clears this up.

;)

anubis
01-08-2006, 04:28 PM
"We never operated a U.K. medical school. It is a senagalese school." Tell that to the PR person who bought the advertising space right here in Valuemd, top right hand, next to the Valuemd logo, I am reading it, "St. Christophers College of Medicine, Luton, England, UK research programs, Basic sciences in the United Kingdom, excellent living conditions..." bla bla.

They don't mention Senegal anywhere. Why? Because they know if they do they would barely enroll anyone in this school. I bet you that Senegal is probably not even mentioned in the diploma either. That Triton, is very appealing for misleading. If it is a Senegalese school, advertise is as such.

Of course I expect this as your reply..."have you checked the website? it mentions Senegal there" Yes, I know that, but the means to get to the website is misleading per se.



So am I to understand that advertising may be misleading? Say it ain't so.

bts4202
01-08-2006, 09:16 PM
So am I to understand that advertising may be misleading? Say it ain't so.

remember the old AUC one: "Best medical school in the carribean!"

empathy
01-08-2006, 09:28 PM
I wouldn't pick on AUC. It is a solid well est school. One of my favorites.

jpryor
01-09-2006, 06:56 AM
I wouldn't pick on AUC. It is a solid well est school. One of my favorites.

One of your favorites? Are you planning on attending medical school?

teratos
01-09-2006, 08:21 AM
remember the old AUC one: "Best medical school in the carribean!"

Sure, just advertising. Isn't that the goal of advertising? Make your product seem like the best?

empathy
01-09-2006, 08:54 AM
I'm an emergency room volunteer.


One of your favorites? Are you planning on attending medical school?

jpryor
01-09-2006, 09:01 AM
I'm an emergency room volunteer.

Are you doing that in preparation for applying to med school?

maximillian genossa
01-09-2006, 09:13 AM
Sure, just advertising. Isn't that the goal of advertising? Make your product seem like the best?

The best PR folks can make a small piece of dog poop look like a chocolate bar (you know what I mean)

empathy
01-09-2006, 09:22 AM
We should table this debate until St. Chris has time to rework their banner at the top of this page. They no longer have a "clinical science experience at UK hospitals" and so on and so on..... They are no longer allowed in UK hospitals.

Tritonesub
01-09-2006, 10:06 AM
they are able to work in UK hospitals ... just not able to sit for the PLAB

azskeptic
01-09-2006, 10:12 AM
they are able to work in UK hospitals ... just not able to sit for the PLAB

http://www.gmcpressoffice.org.uk/apps/news/latest/detail.php?key=210

empathy
01-09-2006, 10:35 AM
they are not able to work in UK Hospitals. They are not recognized as a medical college in the UK.


they are able to work in UK hospitals ... just not able to sit for the PLAB

empathy
01-09-2006, 10:47 AM
No, I'm not.


Are you doing that in preparation for applying to med school?

Tritonesub
01-09-2006, 07:32 PM
excuse me they are able to train in UK hospitals as students but not work for money as a doctor

microphage
01-09-2006, 10:49 PM
remember the old AUC one: "Best medical school in the carribean!"


yeah but they didn't write "Best medical School in the Caribbean"

Caribbean vs Carribean. Close but not the same ;)

Nebakanezer
01-10-2006, 11:03 AM
Actually, you are wrong, once again. The GMC has advised NHS trusts against letting foreign students into facilities for clinical experience in the UK. Let me repeat this so everyone will understand, it is only an advisory. The GMC does not have ability to enforce this even if they wanted to.

It is still up to the individual NHS trusts to determine if they want to let foreign medical students have clinical experiences in their hospitals. Also, this advisory does not apply to privately owned facilities, so the banner is still valid.


We should table this debate until St. Chris has time to rework their banner at the top of this page. They no longer have a "clinical science experience at UK hospitals" and so on and so on..... They are no longer allowed in UK hospitals.

empathy
01-10-2006, 11:18 AM
Okay, we'll go with that. Can you name one facility that you are currently at in the UK so students can call and verify that organizations are willing to work with St. Chris without the blessing of the GMC? Might alleviate some worries for them.

Private UK and non-UK based medical colleges
We are aware that there are some private, UK and non-UK based, medical colleges offering medical courses. These colleges do not fall within the GMC’s jurisdiction and are not supervised or quality assured in any way by the GMC. Any organisation considering providing clinical placements for the students from such colleges should assure itself about the medical education provision and the quality assurance arrangements. The GMC is unable to provide a quality assurance role and organizations are therefore strongly recommended to undertake thorough investigations and take appropriate advice before providing clinical placements for such students.


Actually, you are wrong, once again. The GMC has advised NHS trusts against letting foreign students into facilities for clinical experience in the UK. Let me repeat this so everyone will understand, it is only an advisory. The GMC does not have ability to enforce this even if they wanted to.

It is still up to the individual NHS trusts to determine if they want to let foreign medical students have clinical experiences in their hospitals. Also, this advisory does not apply to privately owned facilities, so the banner is still valid.

Nebakanezer
01-10-2006, 11:51 AM
I'm a clinical student in the US, so I can't help you with that.


Okay, we'll go with that. Can you name one facility that you are currently at in the UK so students can call and verify that organizations are willing to work with St. Chris without the blessing of the GMC? Might alleviate some worries for them.

Private UK and non-UK based medical colleges
We are aware that there are some private, UK and non-UK based, medical colleges offering medical courses. These colleges do not fall within the GMC’s jurisdiction and are not supervised or quality assured in any way by the GMC. Any organisation considering providing clinical placements for the students from such colleges should assure itself about the medical education provision and the quality assurance arrangements. The GMC is unable to provide a quality assurance role and organizations are therefore strongly recommended to undertake thorough investigations and take appropriate advice before providing clinical placements for such students.







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