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trueskeptic
12-06-2005, 08:02 AM
Hello Everyone


I put off attending St Chris b/c of all the recent issues that have arisen, i am just waiting for things to get settled down and see what happens... if anyone knows of the status of the situation with GMC and/or other issues please post a reply or PM me, i really would like to attend St Chris b/c of Luton location so i am more then willing to wait it out for 1-2 semesters.. thank you

DrFluffy
12-06-2005, 12:23 PM
This is from todays BBC News Online website:
NHS warned over private schools
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4504444.stm


Hospitals have been warned only to offer placements to students from accredited medical schools.
The General Medical Council issued guidance after a BBC Five Live investigation raised concerns over private medical schools in the UK...

...

The GMC, which held its council meeting today, said that there were 27 UK medical schools recognised for providing medical education which complied with the curriculum it had set out.
It added organisations offering clinical placements should ensure that students are studying at one of these schools.

smoohead
12-06-2005, 01:02 PM
This is bad for people who want to practice in the UK...but how will it affect the students who want to practice in the US?? Is the school going to shut down a semester after I get there...?? :confused:

###
12-06-2005, 01:32 PM
................

OLDPRO
12-06-2005, 01:58 PM
This is bad for people who want to practice in the UK...but how will it affect the students who want to practice in the US?? Is the school going to shut down a semester after I get there...?? :confused:
It's been posted here that Senegal has met with the GMC and their school and Full support for the school has been provided plus all documentation to the GMC so it is expected for the GMC to reverse the decision shortly. Also this has no bearing on the USA and Lic requirements. The school is enjoying a healthy number of incoming students and about 800 stong now.

azskeptic
12-06-2005, 02:01 PM
It's been posted here that Senegal has met with the GMC and their school and Full support for the school has been provided pluss all documentation to the GMC so it is expected for the GMC to reverse the decision shortly. Also this has no bearing on the USA and Lic requirements. The school is enjoying a healthy number of incoming students and about 800 stong now. Well, we now know that the NHS Fraud Control Unit is involved in the research; does this mean fraud is involved? Some states in the US apparently have language if you are banned in some jurisdiction you must report it when you apply for a license; does that apply in this situation?

OLDPRO
12-06-2005, 02:33 PM
Well, we now know that the NHS Fraud Control Unit is involved in the research; does this mean fraud is involved? Some states in the US apparently have language if you are banned in some jurisdiction you must report it when you apply for a license; does that apply in this situation? No AZ this does not mean the NHS has "targeted St. Chris" it means until the GMC rules on all the eveidence and backing of Senegal for St. Chris and the backing of the other schools that "placement" can't take place. This is the same for ALL THE SCHOOLS not just St. Chris.

I think you get ahead of yourself sometimes.

azskeptic
12-06-2005, 02:34 PM
No AZ this does not mean the NHS has "targeted St. Chris" it means until the GMC rules on all the eveidence and backing of Senegal for St. Chris and the backing of the other schools that "placement" can't take place.

I think you get ahead of yourself sometimes. Targeted St. Chris? Not me.......

OLDPRO
12-06-2005, 02:44 PM
Targeted St. Chris? Not me.......


The watchdog said it wanted to check that named overseas universities actually did award degrees - and that the universities themselves were on a World Health Organization list of accredited institutions.
The investigation in being carried out in conjunction with the NHS Counter Fraud Service."

If the President of Senegal through his Amb****or Aknowledging his countries school is not enough then I don't know what is?

If the truth has been told then St. Chris has been cleared by now and the is little to worry about. The school is WHO listed and backed by the country of Senegal.

I'm not discussing this further thank you.

neilc
12-06-2005, 02:45 PM
It's been posted here that Senegal has met with the GMC and their school and Full support for the school has been provided plus all documentation to the GMC so it is expected for the GMC to reverse the decision shortly. Also this has no bearing on the USA and Lic requirements. The school is enjoying a healthy number of incoming students and about 800 stong now.

first of all, we don't know anything about what senegal said to the GMC or what the GMC thinks about this information. we do have the schools position on the matter, but the school lacks any sort of credibility at all. so, as of now, there is really no new information on whether the decision will be reversed. personally, given the history of the school and the admin's policy on secrecy and misleading tactics of marketting, i would assume that the status will stay restricted until it actually is removed. think about it this way...does the school have any incentive to paint the best possible picture? yes...there is a LOT of money at stake, and even keeping students in for an extra semester can mean a lot of money into the admins pocket. everything may well be peachy keen with the GMC, but it may not.

and, it may well have bearing on the licensure in the states, in many ways. first of all, for the students prior to 2000, it looks like they have no valid diploma. second, the years in question from 2000-2003 have yet to be resolved, which affects a lot of current students. finally, if the school was operating without a charter, it likely would lead to an EFMG evaluation. it would be pretty easy to imagine the school being delisted in IMED if in fact there are valid issues with the charter situation.

while whuds gets tired of all of the issues around st chris, and the negativitey that surrounds it, that doesn't mean that there are no potential problems. certainly, at this point a problem exists (ie with the GMC). assuming that everything will be resolved is pretty silly at this point. wait until things are resolved, and then consider this school. in the meantime (and even IF things are resolved) there are plenty of better options. do not let the idea of living in Luton lead you to making a poor decision.

neilc
12-06-2005, 02:48 PM
If the President of Senegal through his Amb****or Aknowledging his countries school is not enough then I don't know what is?



actually, i doubt that is enough. i would imagine that the GMC is insisting on documentation showing that the school was in place all those years ago. having somebody show up after the fact stating that everything is ok means zero. he could easily have been "convinced" to have a more favorable stand on st chris now that the poop hit the fan.

OLDPRO
12-06-2005, 02:50 PM
first of all, we don't know anything about what senegal said to the GMC or what the GMC thinks about this information. we do have the schools position on the matter, but the school lacks any sort of credibility at all. so, as of now, there is really no new information on whether the decision will be reversed. personally, given the history of the school and the admin's policy on secrecy and misleading tactics of marketting, i would assume that the status will stay restricted until it actually is removed. think about it this way...does the school have any incentive to paint the best possible picture? yes...there is a LOT of money at stake, and even keeping students in for an extra semester can mean a lot of money into the admins pocket. everything may well be peachy keen with the GMC, but it may not.

and, it may well have bearing on the licensure in the states, in many ways. first of all, for the students prior to 2000, it looks like they have no valid diploma. second, the years in question from 2000-2003 have yet to be resolved, which affects a lot of current students. finally, if the school was operating without a charter, it likely would lead to an EFMG evaluation. it would be pretty easy to imagine the school being delisted in IMED if in fact there are valid issues with the charter situation.

while whuds gets tired of all of the issues around st chris, and the negativitey that surrounds it, that doesn't mean that there are no potential problems. certainly, at this point a problem exists (ie with the GMC). assuming that everything will be resolved is pretty silly at this point. wait until things are resolved, and then consider this school. in the meantime (and even IF things are resolved) there are plenty of better options. do not let the idea of living in Luton lead you to making a poor decision.

I do know what the ambassador said to students and have seen some documents that state what has happened with the GMC. Yes I do know some things, problem is you all have a this hang up on St. Chris and think they lie all the time. If everything I have seen and been told is the truth, then this will be over soon. Why not just wait and let the GMC give the final answer then it will be over. Stop posting and reposting cause it's Jan Sweeps time fo new students just leave it go for now. There's nothing new yet.

azskeptic
12-06-2005, 02:55 PM
actually, i doubt that is enough. i would imagine that the GMC is insisting on documentation showing that the school was in place all those years ago. having somebody show up after the fact stating that everything is ok means zero. he could easily have been "convinced" to have a more favorable stand on st chris now that the poop hit the fan. I've personally seen some documentation that would have one question the listed WHO date for St. Chris-Senegal but assume that it must be verified through proper govt. channels. Agree with WHUDS--the GMC is the one who will announce the findings of their joint research with the NHS Health Fraud Unit when they are finished so anything people surmise before is not concrete. Thus potential students are indeed wise to be warned like BTS did about enrolling for January term without the questions answered.

neilc
12-06-2005, 02:58 PM
I do know what the ambassador said to students and have seen some documents that state what has happened with the GMC. Yes I do know some things, problem is you all have a this hang up on St. Chris and think they lie all the time. If everything I have seen and been told then this will be over soon. Why not just wait and let the GMC give the final answer then it will be over. Stop posting and reposting cause it's Jan Sweeps time fo new students just leave it go for now. There's nothing new yet.

i agree, in part. we should wait til the GMC results are out to see what happens. but, in the meantime, it would be prudent to advise potential students to wait before attending st chris. it seems you tell us to wait before jumping to conclusions, and then you jump to your own positive conclusion.

and the school definitely has a history of misleading. no question. so, they should not be trusted without verification. just look at the old posts, as nobody wants to rehash these old issues.

OLDPRO
12-06-2005, 03:00 PM
I've personally seen some documentation that would have one question the listed WHO date for St. Chris-Senegal but assume that it must be verified through proper govt. channels. Agree with WHUDS--the GMC is the one who will announce the findings of their joint research with the NHS Health Fraud Unit when they are finished so anything people surmise before is not concrete. Thus potential students are indeed wise to be warned like BTS did about enrolling for January term without the questions answered.
Look I'm not telling anyone not to look at this at all, I hope the truth has been told, but new students should wait until this is cleared up. I posted that before and stand by it. But lets wait before berating the school for now.

give the current students a break cause if there has been more lies then they will have a tough road ahead.

as to the ones still coming in Jan I will continue to help all I can. I still have friends in Luton and know how things work there. Good luck to All.

DrFluffy
12-07-2005, 03:03 PM
It's been posted here that Senegal has met with the GMC and their school and Full support for the school has been provided plus all documentation to the GMC so it is expected for the GMC to reverse the decision shortly. Also this has no bearing on the USA and Lic requirements. The school is enjoying a healthy number of incoming students and about 800 stong now.

The GMC do not 'mee' with such bodies. That is not it's function. It tends to follow WHO recommendations, and serves to protect the educational provision of students at UK medical schools in the first instance.

Obviously they are keen not to let students get caught up in institutions 'squatting' in the UK, potentially wasting their money, but their main aim is to protect the clincial experiences and provision of 'its own'.

I would love to see real 'evidence' i.e. fromthe GMC that it has met with anyone of the sort!

azskeptic
12-07-2005, 03:19 PM
The GMC do not 'mee' with such bodies. That is not it's function. It tends to follow WHO recommendations, and serves to protect the educational provision of students at UK medical schools in the first instance.

Obviously they are keen not to let students get caught up in institutions 'squatting' in the UK, potentially wasting their money, but their main aim is to protect the clincial experiences and provision of 'its own'.

I would love to see real 'evidence' i.e. fromthe GMC that it has met with anyone of the sort! I think you point out the problem. Students that post info here citing that the Govt. of Senegal has provided the info and all is well are basically showing wishful thinking. This isn't something you 'take care of'. Whatever is real is what will be discovered probably.

Those who cite ME as the person who caused the investigation are wishful thinkers also. Professional organizations like the GMC and the NHS Fraud Control Unit are not manipulated by outside influences: indeed they act to protect the consumers and the legal process they are charged to do.

Hopefully the UK education system will be stronger when they finish this process and get in place the protections they feel necessary to protect the UK.

CorporateRaider
12-07-2005, 04:21 PM
[azskeptic]SNIPPET...........

Those who cite ME as the person who caused the investigation are wishful thinkers also. [quote]

Even if you "cause" the investigation, what difference would that make on its findings and results?

If someone wanted to investigate my firm, I would laugh and let the investigation run its course.

OLDPRO
12-07-2005, 06:10 PM
I think you point out the problem. Students that post info here citing that the Govt. of Senegal has provided the info and all is well are basically showing wishful thinking. This isn't something you 'take care of'. Whatever is real is what will be discovered probably.

Those who cite ME as the person who caused the investigation are wishful thinkers also. Professional organizations like the GMC and the NHS Fraud Control Unit are not manipulated by outside influences: indeed they act to protect the consumers and the legal process they are charged to do.

Hopefully the UK education system will be stronger when they finish this process and get in place the protections they feel necessary to protect the UK. Never said it was "wishful thinking" and calling these other students liars is beneath you AZ, 3 students met with the AMBASSADOR from Senegal to the court of St. James. What part of the that is wishful thinking? Dr. Fluffy how do you know the AMBASSADOR from Senegal was lieing? They said they were meeting with GMC officials, I think they did as they said they supported the school. And by the way if the GMC "doesn't meet with people" then why "meet with the BBC?" How would this ever get resolved?

Comeon guys think before you post.

maximillian genossa
12-07-2005, 08:27 PM
Neil C, Whuds, Az....Guys, just drop it and leave it alone! Please!

None of you have a clue what way they will rule, yet you guys are bickering over and over it, like if you knew, and you DONT. None of you.

Wait until the GMC comes up with its conclussions, capisce????:samurai:

neilc
12-07-2005, 09:02 PM
Neil C, Whuds, Az....Guys, just drop it and leave it alone! Please!

None of you have a clue what way they will rule, yet you guys are bickering over and over it, like if you knew, and you DONT. None of you.

Wait until the GMC comes up with its conclussions, capisce????:samurai:

the point of my posts is not to guess what the GMC will say, but rather to encourage people to be aware of the potential problems they face when choosing a med school.

Miklos
12-09-2005, 10:36 AM
Never said it was "wishful thinking" and calling these other students liars is beneath you AZ, 3 students met with the AMBASSADOR from Senegal to the court of St. James. What part of the that is wishful thinking? Dr. Fluffy how do you know the AMBASSADOR from Senegal was lieing? They said they were meeting with GMC officials, I think they did as they said they supported the school. And by the way if the GMC "doesn't meet with people" then why "meet with the BBC?" How would this ever get resolved?

Comeon guys think before you post.
whuds,

Forgive me for pointing this out once again, but it appears that you don't know what role ambassadors play.

Many of them are in fact, paid to lie (although we don't use such strong words, we couch it in different terms -- "throwing a diplomatic smokescreen", "spinning", "putting forth their point of view", etc..) to foreign governments and news organizations.

Regardless of what the ambassador said to a couple students informally (as this has no real weight), the final authority in this particular matter is the GMC. We're all going to have to wait to see what they decide.

azskeptic
12-09-2005, 10:41 AM
whuds,

Forgive me for pointing this out once again, but it appears that you don't know what the role ambassadors play.

Many of them are in fact, paid to lie (although we don't use such strong words, we couch it in different terms -- "throwing a diplomatic smokescreen", "spinning", "putting forth their point of view", etc..) to foreign governments and news organzations.

Regardless of what the ambassador said to a couple students informally (as this has no real weight), the final authority in this particular matter is the GMC. We're all going to have to wait to see what they decide. in an investigation you look for evidence and verification--not famous powerful people. Unless the Ambassador was involved in the Ministry of Education and can prove that there was a St. Chris in the time frame they are studying, will his support be of much help. I assume St. Chris is keeping the students informed of what they are being asked so they understand the process. The most important thing the school can do is be completely open with the students so they understand what is happening. No use trying to surmise what will happen--we aren't psychics.

Bhoot
12-10-2005, 02:51 PM
The fact is guys, no one knows the outcome, and ALL foreign schools in the UK are being investigated in reaction to the BBC news report. That is a fact of life. When you involve government, any government, its all CYA, CYA, whether its the UK, the GMC, or the NHS, which, in a socialist country like the UK, is all the same anyway.







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