PDA

View Full Version : Gmc Change Status On St. Chris



Pages : [1] 2

azskeptic
11-03-2005, 03:54 PM
http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp


St. Christopher's College of Medicine, Luton (http://www.stchris.edu/)
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the St Christopher ‘s College of Medicine in Senegal. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.

neilc
11-03-2005, 04:11 PM
yikes...that can't be good.

diogenes
11-03-2005, 04:19 PM
Couple of other UK satellite schools with similar provisional change in status. I wonder if this is in anticipation of public outcry after radio prog.?

azskeptic
11-03-2005, 05:28 PM
Couple of other UK satellite schools with similar provisional change in status. I wonder if this is in anticipation of public outcry after radio prog.? I wouldn't guess they are doing it in anticipation but rather some policy change but who knows. Good observation on your part though about the other schools that were changed at the same time.

MDXRS22
11-03-2005, 05:30 PM
http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp


St. Christopher's College of Medicine, Luton (http://www.stchris.edu/)
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the St Christopher ‘s College of Medicine in Senegal. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.

This is not GOOD at all!!!
***??? Seriously????

OLDPRO
11-03-2005, 05:48 PM
This is not GOOD at all!!!
***??? Seriously????
They changed the status of all the listed schools not just St. Chris.
I think it is fall out from the BBC story already.

We will have to wait and see.:confused:

MDXRS22
11-03-2005, 05:56 PM
I got it now!
Thanks @ Whuds!!!

AUCMD2006
11-03-2005, 08:45 PM
this sucks. hopefully there really is an affiliation and there really is humanitarian work going on andf they will find something

amyames
11-04-2005, 02:02 AM
do all the admin know about this? if they do, I'm sure they are trying to get the paperwork in order to show the relationship with the Senegal campus.

teratos
11-04-2005, 05:20 AM
do all the admin know about this? if they do, I'm sure they are trying to get the paperwork in order to show the relationship with the Senegal campus.

You will probably need more than paperwork....

jpryor
11-04-2005, 08:13 AM
Before more of you succumb to AzSkeptics half-truths please note that he posted this same link from a VMD post done in 2003. The verbiage on the GMC site has not changed in over 2 years, so this is not a new development. But AzSkeptic is so biased that he will bend over backward to slant things against the school. If you want to know the truth, contact the GMC, as I have and also read what SC reports. In case you want the "rest of the story" it's this: General Medical Council ("][/URL]Licensure in the United Kingdom
Graduates of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine are eligible for limited registration with the [URL="http://www.gmc-uk.org/). Students are eligible to sit for the PLAB and MRCP exams. After several years of supervised work, graduates can qualify for full registration pending the results of their performance.

Now, you can buy into AzSkeptics efforts to bah the school or you can read between the lines of the promo for this radio program in which it is acknowledged that SC students are rotating through NHS hospitals and there is a graduate surgeon. How could students rotate through NHS hospitals, side by side with the students from the established UK medical schools? How could there be a surgeon who graduated from SC practicing in the UK? Could it be that there is, how the UK puts it, "Limited Registration" for a few years while they are under supervision before Full Registration?

An ethical person would have told you all of this. Please note that AzSkeptic did not. Not only did he not tell the whole story, he bent over backward to suggest that there was a recent "major negative" against the school. You would expect this kind of behavior from somebody trying to sell you a used trailer. It is inexplicable how VMD could let this individual continue as the moderator of the licensing forum. Any good this individual has ever done is outweighed by this kind of behavior.

teratos
11-04-2005, 08:20 AM
Did you read the blurb about SC on the GMC website?:

We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the St Christopher ‘s College of Medicine in Senegal. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.

Being a moderator has nothing to do with anything except making sure that people don't swear and don't insult each other too much. G

azskeptic
11-04-2005, 08:21 AM
Before more of you succumb to AzSkeptics half-truths please note that he posted this same link from a VMD post done in 2003. The verbiage on the GMC site has not changed in over 2 years, so this is not a new development. But AzSkeptic is so biased that he will bend over backward to slant things against the school. If you want to know the truth, contact the GMC, as I have and also read what SC reports. In case you want the "rest of the story" it's this: Licensure in the United Kingdom
Graduates of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine are eligible for limited registration with the General Medical Council (http://www.gmc-uk.org/). Students are eligible to sit for the PLAB and MRCP exams. After several years of supervised work, graduates can qualify for full registration pending the results of their performance.

Now, you can buy into AzSkeptics efforts to bah the school or you can read between the lines of the promo for this radio program in which it is acknowledged that SC students are rotating through NHS hospitals and there is a graduate surgeon. How could students rotate through NHS hospitals, side by side with the students from the established UK medical schools? How could there be a surgeon who graduated from SC practicing in the UK? Could it be that there is, how the UK puts it, "Limited Registration" for a few years while they are under supervision before Full Registration?

An ethical person would have told you all of this. Please note that AzSkeptic did not. Not only did he not tell the whole story, he bent over backward to suggest that there was a recent "major negative" against the school. You would expect this kind of behavior from somebody trying to sell you a used trailer. It is inexplicable how VMD could let this individual continue as the moderator of the licensing forum. Any good this individual has ever done is outweighed by this kind of behavior. You are incorrect. Compare todays website:

http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp

with its latest version in the archive file:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041106054621/www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

vastly different in tone.

today readers see:


St. Christopher's College of Medicine, Luton (http://www.stchris.edu/)
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the St Christopher ‘s College of Medicine in Senegal. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.


Your constant attack of me is noted.

jpryor
11-04-2005, 08:28 AM
Put your ethics on the line, Teratos. Will you acknowledge the verbiage has not changed in over two years?

How about commenting that SC students are in NHS hospitals, side by side with the established school students?

teratos
11-04-2005, 08:30 AM
I don't know anything about where SC students rotate, so I can't comment. The verbiage on the GMC website most certainly has changed. G
Then:
Graduates of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine are eligible for limited registration with the General Medical Council (http://www.gmc-uk.org/). Students are eligible to sit for the PLAB and MRCP exams. After several years of supervised work, graduates can qualify for full registration pending the results of their performance.
Now:
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the St Christopher ‘s College of Medicine in Senegal. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.

diogenes
11-04-2005, 08:31 AM
Teratos and Az are correct. Just to make things extra clear there is a new page on the GMC site devoted to St. Chris, some Russian schools and Liberia it is:-
http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/how_to_register/registration/acceptable_primary_medical_qualification.asp

jpryor
11-04-2005, 08:41 AM
Well, Az, the link you provided to the GMC web site, alleging a change in tone, doesn't mention St. Christopher's at all. It does reiterate its non-acceptance of the Medical College of London's degrees, but it posted that information over 2 years ago, too. Please note that MCL is not SC...you seem to have some difficulty keeping your facts straight...kind of like when you posted that story about FMG's driving taxis in Canada to use in response to an IMG issue. Maybe by now you have learned the difference between the two, oh great licensing expert. Yes, I am watching you.

jpryor
11-04-2005, 08:44 AM
I don't know anything about where SC students rotate, so I can't comment. The verbiage on the GMC website most certainly has changed. G
Then:
Graduates of St. Christopher’s College of Medicine are eligible for limited registration with the General Medical Council (http://www.gmc-uk.org/). Students are eligible to sit for the PLAB and MRCP exams. After several years of supervised work, graduates can qualify for full registration pending the results of their performance.
Now:
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the St Christopher ‘s College of Medicine in Senegal. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.

Teratos, the first quote is from the school's web site, your second quote is from the GMC web site and is over two years old.

jpryor
11-04-2005, 08:48 AM
Teratos and Az are correct. Just to make things extra clear there is a new page on the GMC site devoted to St. Chris, some Russian schools and Liberia it is:-
http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/how_to_register/registration/acceptable_primary_medical_qualification.asp

That is not a new page. Again, reconcile this old information with the SC students being permitted in NHS hospitals and the one graduate practicing in the UK. This wouldn't be happening if the GMC wasn't letting it.

teratos
11-04-2005, 08:59 AM
OK, my bad. I have no interest in putting any school down. G

diogenes
11-04-2005, 09:06 AM
That is not a new page. Again, reconcile this old information with the SC students being permitted in NHS hospitals and the one graduate practicing in the UK. This wouldn't be happening if the GMC wasn't letting it.
I believe that it is new. Moreover, the original page quoted by AZ and others is dated 3rd Nov. Knowing full well that listing for the other schools "under investigation" but not "suspended" had changed I phoned the GMC this morning. They acknowledged that the status had changed but were tight-lipped as to reasons and time span.

jpryor
11-04-2005, 09:13 AM
I believe that it is new. Moreover, the original page quoted by AZ and others is dated 3rd Nov. Knowing full well that listing for the other schools "under investigation" but not "suspended" had changed I phoned the GMC this morning. They acknowledged that the status had changed but were tight-lipped as to reasons and time span.

I have written and asked specific questions. On their response, I will post it here. You'd think any "member of the press" would have done at least that.

diogenes
11-04-2005, 09:14 AM
That is not a new page. Again, reconcile this old information with the SC students being permitted in NHS hospitals and the one graduate practicing in the UK. This wouldn't be happening if the GMC wasn't letting it.

You are quite right;they did let it happen, up until yesterday:now they will not.

azskeptic
11-04-2005, 09:38 AM
Teratos, the first quote is from the school's web site, your second quote is from the GMC web site and is over two years old. The 2nd quote came onto the site in last 48 hours. Verify it with the GMC if you like.

empathy
11-05-2005, 12:17 AM
So what do students do in mean time?

###
11-05-2005, 12:57 AM
......................

amw
11-05-2005, 08:40 AM
:confused: This would be a miracle. The residency requirements in the UK to "work as a surgeon" need years of post grad experience and a fellowship in the Royal College of Surgeons. So I don't think so! Exaggerated/erroneous claims do not help any one's argument. In fact it makes people dismiss even what might be valid ideas. No one wants to see anyone fail, but things have to be tightened up with all "offshore" med schools or the lowest common denominator will color everyone's reputation

OLDPRO
11-05-2005, 08:45 AM
:confused: This would be a miracle. The residency requirements in the UK to "work as a surgeon" need years of post grad experience and a fellowship in the Royal College of Surgeons. So I don't think so! Exaggerated/erroneous claims do not help any one's argument. In fact it makes people dismiss even what might be valid ideas. No one wants to see anyone fail, but things have to be tightened up with all "offshore" med schools or the lowest common denominator will color everyone's reputation

Point one: St Chris started here in the UK in 2000, Uh over 5 years ago so if someone started in the 4th year in 2000 then they could be practicing in the UK, but there is no info on the official St. Chris site nor the student site that there is a surgeon here in the UK.

Point two: The BBC has made the claim not St. Chris. If they have then fine but I've never read nor heard such a statment.

Be carful of what you post. This is sensitive to about 800 current students and posting verifiable facts are best, he said she said don't cut it.

azskeptic
11-05-2005, 08:52 AM
Point one: St Chris started here in the UK in 2000, Uh over 5 years ago so if someone started in the 4th year in 2000 then they could be practicing in the UK, but there is no info on the official St. Chris site nor the student site that there is a surgeon here in the UK.

Point two: The BBC has made the claim not St. Chris. If they have then fine but I've never read nor heard such a statment.

Be carful of what you post. This is sensitive to about 800 current students and posting verifiable facts are best, he said she said don't cut it. actually this document from the state of oregon mentions st. chris and if you look it up in the charter file in the uK it says 1998

http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm

Has anyone seen the actual charter?

empathy
11-05-2005, 09:02 AM
800 students?????????????????????????????????

OLDPRO
11-05-2005, 09:09 AM
800 students?????????????????????????????????

Yes since I was in this school last semester, 3-400 in Luton and 400+ in the USA, 5th semester and clinicals.

It's not that hard! 4 semesters here in Luton + Premed another 4 Semesters 8 semesters with 50 students a piece is 400, But 1st semester had over 100 alone this last semester. (I transfered to another school for JAN 06 not because of any of this though)

By the way numbers have been posted over and over before I know you are new but St. Chris does have 3 buildings with 3 floors each and is quite large now.
It's not a half baked post/ claim There are Pics here on the album of the main building and St. Nicholos house.

OLDPRO
11-05-2005, 09:20 AM
actually this document from the state of oregon mentions st. chris and if you look it up in the charter file in the uK it says 1998

http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm

Has anyone seen the actual charter?

AZ I tried to stay away from this posting but you know we have been down this road, It was not St. Christopher's College of Medicine then
It was St. Christopher's School of Medicine. We need to be in the present which starts in 2000 with the current entity. The name change is important as is the WHO listing in 2000. The State of Oregon does not recognize WHO at all nor any other Authority but themselves. They do not have anything in place to visit or review medical schools. I have Emails saved from them that state this from the director.

I do not reconize Oregon as an IMG friendly state.

bts4202
11-05-2005, 10:02 AM
I apologize for my tardiness, but I was out of the state on a residency interview when all this went down (which went very well BTW).

The GMC/BBC thing is very scary and i am quite sure that some people at the school are spreading all kinds of craziness from Dr. L has fled to morrocco to the WHO has retracted our listing, etc. This kind of thing actually happens quite a bit in offshore schools. At St chris, we had this exact same situation with the GMC a couple years ago. The result? Well, the GMC visited st chris a couple times, checked out the campus, talked to a bunch of students, looked over docuements presented by the admin and in the end.. they reinstated our registration status. This time is not much different. I have actually seen the list of questions they feel need to answered by st chris and they are all very doable. They seem designed to weed out the bad actors in the UK (understandably) and since we are genuine, we will end up being fine IMHO.

To Prospective students: This is understandably scary. I have an interview in a couple weeks at a residency program whose accreditation from the ACGME is on probation and I am being very cautious. I want to see A) that they have made significant steps to ensure they will be taken off probation and B)that things are moving forward. I suggest a similar approach towards st chris in this situation. If the whole prospect of having the GMC and BBC on our backs for a little bit really petrifies you, please attend another school. I would hate for you to come to st chris and always be scared and miserable. If you have visited st chris and know the quality of the school and feel confident that st chris has the proper things in place to stand up under scrutiny, then we welcome you all to the st chris family.

To Current students: Please remain calm and read what i wrote to prospectives. The same thing applies to you. If you are too scared and need to transfer, no one will blame you. However, like i wrote previously, i have seen the questions posed to st chris and we should be able to answer them with proof very easily.

Good luck to all.

OLDPRO
11-05-2005, 02:58 PM
actually this document from the state of oregon mentions st. chris and if you look it up in the charter file in the uK it says 1998

http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm

Has anyone seen the actual charter?

Okay trying to stay away but this is from the link you provided AZ:


Name & Registered Office:
ST. CHRISTOPHER'S COLLEGE OF MEDICINE LIMITED
YORK HOUSE
17-19 PARK STREET WEST
LUTON
BEDFORDSHIRE LU1 3BG
Company No. 04066576

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/wckimg/en/stdwc/spacer.gifhttp://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/wckimg/en/stdwc/spacer.gifhttp://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/wckimg/en/stdwc/spacer.gifhttp://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/wckimg/en/stdwc/spacer.gifStatus: Active
Date of Incorporation: 06/09/2000

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
8030 - Higher education
Accounting Reference Date: 30/09
Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/09/2004 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL)
Next Accounts Due: 30/07/2006
Last Return Made Up To: 06/09/2005
Next Return Due: 04/10/2006
Last Members List: 06/09/2005
Previous Names:No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.Branch Details (http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/help/en/stdwc/branchDetails_H.html) There are no branches associated with this company.Oversea Company Info (http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/help/en/stdwc/overseaCompDet_H.html) There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.
System Requirements (javascript:popup('/help/en/stdwc/buyingGuide_H.html',500,500);)

Return to search page (http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/c381a5f1bd0fffb7e6f319ee197c19a8//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo)




This the current school of this forum since 2000 and what we should be disscussing!

AUCMD2006
11-05-2005, 03:27 PM
the old school doesn;t apply here and that oregon article was debunked a whiole ago.

what about the oversea company info? they say there is none..should the university connection show up or is it just if it was a business back in senegal?

bts4202
11-05-2005, 03:46 PM
the old school doesn;t apply here and that oregon article was debunked a whiole ago.

what about the oversea company info? they say there is none..should the university connection show up or is it just if it was a business back in senegal?

It just says no info was provided.. not that there is no overseas connections. We also know that there is a US connection (in addition to senegal) since there is obviously a NJ office. However, just because no info was given on it online does not mean the NJ office does not exist right?

azskeptic
11-05-2005, 04:15 PM
the old school doesn;t apply here and that oregon article was debunked a whiole ago.

what about the oversea company info? they say there is none..should the university connection show up or is it just if it was a business back in senegal? I do not believe the Oregon attorney generals article was debunked. If you do the research you'll find that there was a corporation in 1998-2000 that was allegedly a Luton/Dakr thing. Then a new corporation was founded in 2000. Who was the original owners? who knows but the new corporation has the same business plan, luton/dakar.

Look at the various claims of the websites since it was first on the internet and see what you think.

bts4202
11-05-2005, 04:24 PM
I do not believe the Oregon attorney generals article was debunked. If you do the research you'll find that there was a corporation in 1998-2000 that was allegedly a Luton/Dakr thing. Then a new corporation was founded in 2000. Who was the original owners? who knows but the new corporation has the same business plan, luton/dakar.

Look at the various claims of the websites since it was first on the internet and see what you think.

It has been debunked multiple times. The st chris they were talking about is the current st chris, they just couldn;t find any info on our charter. Once that info was provided to them, they were happy. Plus, we never had any agreement with that other school. They had lied to try to get out of trouble (nice of them to try and take us down with them huh?)

Nebakanezer
11-05-2005, 04:36 PM
Speaking of debunked, I don't think he ever debunked that article that quoted AZSkeptic -----edited for violation of tos

azskeptic
11-05-2005, 04:39 PM
no more personal insults accepted. false allegation posts have been reported to the forum moderator.

Nebakanezer
11-05-2005, 04:41 PM
Um, it wasn't an insult it was a question, can't you read? (this is also a question in case you were wondering, you can usually tell by the squiggly little thing on the end, that is called a "Question Mark")

Plus, these accusations are legitimate and have been made against by several different people in the past. Do you want me to post the links? The last one is right in your main website, where you discuss your "alterantive" lifestyle while married.

Note: In his reply, he didn't refute any of it.

OLDPRO
11-05-2005, 05:32 PM
Please edit the personal attacks. I have PM'd you now.

Nebakanezer
11-05-2005, 06:42 PM
The ValueMD admin wants me to take down my post at the bottom of the last page about AZSkeptic, because it has nothing to do with Medical Schools!

Apparently it’s okay for AZSkeptic to insult and slander the individuals who run St. Chris with accusations that he can't substantiate on a regular basis, which also have nothing to do with medical schools...

But I'm not allowed to ask questions that can be supported with actual evidence, most of it written by AZSkeptic himself and even off of his very own website.

My response to the VMD admin: If you want it edited, do it yourself, ************************************************** *!

empathy
11-05-2005, 06:47 PM
Someone please pass me some mustard. Uni just delivered us a boat load of baloney. ValueMD is beyond fair. Just look at all the stuff they have allowed you guys to get away with in the past. They have been long suffering in regards to St. Chris.

Cardinal
11-05-2005, 08:09 PM
I think Engels and Marx would be proud:D

azskeptic
11-05-2005, 09:43 PM
whoah.....its one of those nights.

azskeptic
11-05-2005, 09:47 PM
see http://www.valuemd.com/the-relaxing-lounge/48643-bbc-article-uk-schools-out-online.html

stephew
11-05-2005, 10:25 PM
any insults/ flamming/trolling is against terms of use. If you can't make your points without doing so, dont post (and consider why you can't. you are supposed to be in a noble, intellectual field). If you don't like VMDs rules, go post what you like on an unmoderated site. when you signed up here you ALL agreed to terms of use. Everyone here is expereinced enough to know all of this. its a shame you need the reminder but consider this a courtesy as much of the behavior here warrents formal warnings.

azskeptic
11-07-2005, 05:51 PM
GMC launches inquiry into private medical schools

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,9830,1636346,00.html

azskeptic
11-07-2005, 08:29 PM
in the press release it described that the fraud unit of NHS was investigating the offshore schools listed. Here is an announcement of the relationship between the Fraud Unit and the GMC.

http://www.cfsms.nhs.uk/files/PR%20-%20MoU%20with%20GMC.pdf

StChrisCS
11-07-2005, 08:31 PM
in the press release it described that the fraud unit of NHS was investigating the offshore schools listed. Here is an announcement of the relationship between the Fraud Unit and the GMC.

http://www.cfsms.nhs.uk/files/PR%20-%20MoU%20with%20GMC.pdf
You might want to warn that this is a PDF link, mobile users and people without the proper software might crash their browser/computer/mobile if they click it...

microphage
11-07-2005, 10:19 PM
and this is based on what? I have yet to see any proof.

hey, u just crossed the 10 posts/day mark....

:)

StChrisCS
11-07-2005, 11:54 PM
hey, u just crossed the 10 posts/day mark....

:)Heck, it now says more than 50+ posts a day. I bet the only person that could beat that at any one given point is Stephew.

empathy
11-08-2005, 03:28 PM
Fact, Honesty, Reality, Certainty.

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 03:35 PM
Fact, Honesty, Reality, Certainty. Are you listing the qualites you have a ***********?

Smythe
11-08-2005, 03:39 PM
Are you listing the qualites you have a questionable grasp on?

I don't think he deserves to be flamed like that

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 03:42 PM
I don't think he deserves to be flamed like that You know, brains are like ***********, everybody has one, and thoughts and opinions of alot of people are like it's output, just lots of ***********...

bootle
11-08-2005, 04:11 PM
Hi,
here is the link to the bbc radio 5 website -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/fivelivereport.shtml

i listened to it at lunchtime today, if you click on

Quack Qualifications? - Sunday 6 November

you can listen to it online

Basically, the school claims to be licensed in senegal, but in the bbc enquiry this registration is put in some doubt, which would mean the school is licensed to award medical degrees, by?

Do listen to the report

cheers,

OLDPRO
11-08-2005, 04:26 PM
Hi,
here is the link to the bbc radio 5 website -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/fivelivereport.shtml

i listened to it at lunchtime today, if you click on

Quack Qualifications? - Sunday 6 November

you can listen to it online

Basically, the school claims to be licensed in senegal, but in the bbc enquiry this registration is put in some doubt, which would mean the school is licensed to award medical degrees, by?

Do listen to the report

cheers,

Last warning for free, do not repost links and articles that have been posted. You will get Alerts and Warnings for this.

AUCMD2006
11-08-2005, 06:28 PM
what is the deal? first you guys don't want old articles or articles that have been posted to be re posted and now you can't even re-do links? is re-posting a link from a dif thread against tos?

whuds you are corrupted by your evil moderator powers......hehe

bts4202
11-08-2005, 06:50 PM
Hi,
here is the link to the bbc radio 5 website -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/fivelivereport.shtml

i listened to it at lunchtime today, if you click on

Quack Qualifications? - Sunday 6 November

you can listen to it online

Basically, the school claims to be licensed in senegal, but in the bbc enquiry this registration is put in some doubt, which would mean the school is licensed to award medical degrees, by?

Do listen to the report

cheers,

wow, how many accounts can one person have????

microphage
11-08-2005, 10:07 PM
what is the deal? first you guys don't want old articles or articles that have been posted to be re posted and now you can't even re-do links? is re-posting a link from a dif thread against tos?

whuds you are corrupted by your evil moderator powers......hehe

if u repost the same post twice, then u are eligible for an alert...

someone please check the Who? thread for multiple violations...

azskeptic
11-08-2005, 10:09 PM
if u repost the same post twice, then u are eligible for an alert...

someone please check the Who? thread for multiple violations... I've been holding up giving an alert but I need a volunteer..somehow I should do it at least once as a moderator........Teratos, I'll give you one and you give me one?

microphage
11-08-2005, 10:20 PM
I've been holding up giving an alert but I need a volunteer..somehow I should do it at least once as a moderator........Teratos, I'll give you one and you give me one?

PICK ME PICK ME!!!

Dean... u are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :twisted:...

azskeptic
11-08-2005, 10:22 PM
PICK ME PICK ME!!!

Dean... u are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :twisted:... YOU HAVE JUST BEEN GIVEN AN AZSKEPTIC ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you get 3 you get a free dozen eggs,signed by the eggman.

microphage
11-08-2005, 10:42 PM
YOU HAVE JUST BEEN GIVEN AN AZSKEPTIC ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you get 3 you get a free dozen eggs,signed by the eggman.

dude... that was lame... I want my warning. :|


btw: anybody want a job?

http://denver.craigslist.org/sci/101906301.html

milhouse
11-09-2005, 03:50 PM
I can't find the post about the senegal campus and its "owner" but this reply is to AZSKEPTIC, it will be my first and last post to you, as I am very unimpressed by you and what you have to say in general


I have been following your posts for sometime. I don't really care to write on such forums, as they are to me nothing but a tool for many to recruit. I, however have seen a recent thread in your posts, with attacks on Moslems or as you call them "Islam" people to further highlight your prejudices and ignorance. I don't understand what sort of a doctor are you? one who stands on 34th street with a blood pressure cuff for $5.00? I am not sure how you treat your patients if indeed you are a doctor, is this the sort of vocabulary and myopic view you treat and greet them with? I hope for your sake you set up shop on park avenue and all your patients are WASPS who have the flu and are paying you out of pocket, either this or maybe you can find a bubble to house your microscopic views on "Islam" type people. if you wanted to learn about Moslems 90% Sunnis, nothing "dervishy" about them, then you'd go to more credible sources, rather than lay here all day like comic book guy from the simpsons wanting your porn to download faster. Islamic Civilization (http://www.cyberistan.org/) I find your thread bordering upon depravity. If you would do a little bit of research you'd see much in medicine comes to you thanks to "Islam-people", the first anatomy book was used by many medical schools was that of "ibn sina" Ibn Sina (Avicenna) (http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/phil/philo/phils/muslim/sina.html), philosophy, physics, math Science3 (http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/ScienceMath/Science3.html) ...I hope that goes with your dinner menu since you are so keen on pointing out what on the plate of others. is it very in vogue to slap labels on people? I need not remind you that this would raise serious discriminatory suits against you had it been directed toward any other group other than Moslems? I find a very inflammatory undertone to your posts. I don't know where you are going with it? I do understand your hate toward St. Chris. I can't for the life me imagine why any one with an MD next to there name would sit here on the web all day wanting to exchange pictures and talk of Sufis. or replay a tabloid BBC news brief like a grave robber who has so much to benefit after the dust has settled on a funeral. There is another society out there that I believe would foster your hobbies better than this forum. Please stop ignorance open a book and READ IT
I don't understand why any one posts on these forums. Neil has been on these forums for 6 years if not more he could have done medical school several times over, I have wondered of my decision , I have gone, I have come back, I am almost done and I have moved on while he is still vegetating before his screen. what benefits have you from sitting here malingering? Prior to my application to medical school I was solicited by the regulars on this forum, people who pry on the vulnerabilities and hope of those who are trying to pursue medicine in a place that is suitable to their circumstances, and unfortunately the same scare tactics used by politician to get people into a frenzy and mass hysteria is used here, it is appalling. I urge people not to reply to this crap. Ever wonder why people who are doing clinicals or are in residencies don't post here? They have moved on with their lives. I hope the regulars of these forums do so as well. Only reason I have posted at all is your statements per regard to Islam. they make 1.6 billion of the worlds population second largest organized religion after Christianity which fosters 2 billion devout worshippers. you can stand to show some compassion for your fellow man if you wish to peacefully co-exist on this planet.
good day to you

azskeptic
11-09-2005, 04:02 PM
I can't find the post about the senegal campus and its "owner" but this reply is to AZSKEPTIC, it will be my first and last post to you, as I am very unimpressed by you and what you have to say in general


I have been following your posts for sometime. I don't really care to write on such forums, as they are to me nothing but a tool for many to recruit. I, however have seen a recent thread in your posts, with attacks on Moslems or as you call them "Islam" people to further highlight your prejudices and ignorance. I don't understand what sort of a doctor are you? one who stands on 34th street with a blood pressure cuff for $5.00? I am not sure how you treat your patients if indeed you are a doctor, is this the sort of vocabulary and myopic view you treat and greet them with? I hope for your sake you set up shop on park avenue and all your patients are WASPS who have the flu and are paying you out of pocket, either this or maybe you can find a bubble to house your microscopic views on "Islam" type people. if you wanted to learn about Moslems 90% Sunnis, nothing "dervishy" about them, then you'd go to more credible sources, rather than lay here all day like comic book guy from the simpsons wanting your porn to download faster. Islamic Civilization (http://www.cyberistan.org/) I find your thread bordering upon depravity. If you would do a little bit of research you'd see much in medicine comes to you thanks to "Islam-people", the first anatomy book was used by many medical schools was that of "ibn sina" Ibn Sina (Avicenna) (http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/phil/philo/phils/muslim/sina.html), philosophy, physics, math Science3 (http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/ScienceMath/Science3.html) ...I hope that goes with your dinner menu since you are so keen on pointing out what on the plate of others. is it very in vogue to slap labels on people? I need not remind you that this would raise serious discriminatory suits against you had it been directed toward any other group other than Moslems? I find a very inflammatory undertone to your posts. I don't know where you are going with it? I do understand your hate toward St. Chris. I can't for the life me imagine why any one with an MD next to there name would sit here on the web all day wanting to exchange pictures and talk of Sufis. or replay a tabloid BBC news brief like a grave robber who has so much to benefit after the dust has settled on a funeral. There is another society out there that I believe would foster your hobbies better than this forum. Please stop ignorance open a book and READ IT
I don't understand why any one posts on these forums. Neil has been on these forums for 6 years if not more he could have done medical school several times over, I have wondered of my decision , I have gone, I have come back, I am almost done and I have moved on while he is still vegetating before his screen. what benefits have you from sitting here malingering? Prior to my application to medical school I was solicited by the regulars on this forum, people who pry on the vulnerabilities and hope of those who are trying to pursue medicine in a place that is suitable to their circumstances, and unfortunately the same scare tactics used by politician to get people into a frenzy and mass hysteria is used here, it is appalling. I urge people not to reply to this crap. Ever wonder why people who are doing clinicals or are in residencies don't post here? They have moved on with their lives. I hope the regulars of these forums do so as well. Only reason I have posted at all is your statements per regard to Islam. they make 1.6 billion of the worlds population second largest organized religion after Christianity which fosters 2 billion devout worshippers. you can stand to show some compassion for your fellow man if you wish to peacefully co-exist on this planet.
good day to you There is nothing anti-Islam/Sufi,etc. in the post. Basically it was posted to give background as to the ownership of St. Chris. I am not a doctor nor do I portray one of television.

Smythe
11-09-2005, 05:06 PM
I have been following your posts for sometime.


I don't understand what sort of a doctor are you? one who stands on 34th street with a blood pressure cuff for $5.00? I am not sure how you treat your patients if indeed you are a doctor,

I'm not sure of your definition for sometime, but my guess is it's a rather small amount of time.
Even the most cursory review of AZSKEPTICS posts or bio would have answered the question that he is not, never has been, nor ever desires to be a physician

azskeptic
11-09-2005, 05:10 PM
I'm not sure of your definition for sometime, but my guess is it's a rather small amount of time.
Even the most cursory review of AZSKEPTICS posts or bio would have answered the question that he is not, never has been, nor ever desires to be a physician I also haven't wanted to be a med school professor, a lawyer, vet, mountain climber, or snake charmer but call me getting conservative in my old age.

I am what I am.

milhouse
11-09-2005, 05:12 PM
please let me guess as to your noble intentions of posting his religious affiliations? and then tangentially going off on the twirling dervishes. for the sake of mental diarrhea? for good will and cheer? or to condescend all around? I am certainly glad you are not a doc, I can just picture the look of disgust on your face when receiving your patients. And from your writing I am sure they would be ill at ease...
Neil MD why don't you start practicing with your degree and get a life? you are very un-busy for a doctor... what are you on a few years sabbatical? it isn't too late for you to form a meaningful relationship with something other than this screen.
St. Chris moderators why are you humoring this non-sense soliloquy? this can go on for ages is this really of substance? why not focus on the issues at hand which pertain to St. Chris rather than taking the defense from people who are clearly driven by prejudicial views

milhouse
11-09-2005, 05:20 PM
smythe I enjoy your color coordinating scheme.
I have already stated that I don't post on this forums nor have any desire to, "sometime" could be three to four days, sufficient to make an impression of these posts. I am certainly not interested in your biography. Neil C for sure is the ubiquitous god of these forums, believe it or not some of us have better things to do than sit here and read your posts as the bible of the foreign ministries. how about a special concoction of beano, benzies and maybe yohmbine to alleviate this recent thread? surely stamp collecting is more interesting than this no?

azskeptic
11-09-2005, 05:20 PM
please let me guess as to your noble intentions of posting his religious affiliations? and then tangentially going off on the twirling dervishes. for the sake of mental diarrhea? for good will and cheer? or to condescend all around? I am certainly glad you are not a doc, I can just picture the look of disgust on your face when receiving your patients. And from your writing I am sure they would be ill at ease...
Neil MD why don't you start practicing with your degree and get a life? you are very un-busy for a doctor... what are you on a few years sabbatical? it isn't too late for you to form a meaningful relationship with something other than this screen.
St. Chris moderators why are you humoring this non-sense soliloquy? this can go on for ages is this really of substance? why not focus on the issues at hand which pertain to St. Chris rather than taking the defense from people who are clearly driven by prejudicial views I took sufi dance lessons in the early 70's. It is a most interesting thing. A positive experience and fun at the time indeed.

OLDPRO
11-09-2005, 05:22 PM
just for an update....got an email from st chris today saying they will not release the credentials of mr. L. a bit strange, i would say. any other university board member or faculty is usually proud of the degree they earned. leads me to believe that there isn't much to be proud of. Last warning, DOC the site administrator has stated that this topic is off limits, Alerts and warnings will be given out for posting on this topic further.

If you want to, take it up with DOC.

Thanks.

Doc
11-09-2005, 05:31 PM
Actually, bringing up that topic again resulted in this thread being split to remove all of the off-topic personal discussions about the Chairman. Doing this made me realize that there were 50 posts about this on this thread which was taking away from the original posters' topic.

Anyway, as whuds mentioned, this personal topic regarding the Chairman is against the terms of service and will receive warnings if posted again in the future. Please read the sticky about it here and please follow the TOS in the future.

http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophers-college-medicine/50757-discussions-about-chairman.html

Smythe
11-09-2005, 05:38 PM
hope they ( and by the word they I imply nothing specific about anybody which will get me or you into trouble with men in grey wigs and black robes ;) ) were nice to you doc when they came a' calling


you are too nice to get any grief about any nonspecific generic random matters from men with cease and decist orders

jpryor
11-10-2005, 08:13 AM
For want of a better place to post it, I'll post it here:

"Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email dated 3 November 2005.

We are currently investigating a number of medical schools in the UK whose
students are awarded degrees from a university based outside the British
mainland.
Information about individual medical schools can be found on our website
through the following link.

http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergrad
uate_level.asp

This means that currently, we are not accepting these degrees for the
purpose of registration.

At the moment, this is all the information we have. We will continue to
update you by placing further updates on our website.

If you have any further queries, please contact us and we will do our best
to help.

Yours sincerely


Registration and Education Directorate
General Medical Council
Telephone:

I am disappointed in this response, as I asked several specific questions. I will request another response to these questions and again, post whateverf response I get.

edited for personal contact info.

milhouse
11-10-2005, 12:32 PM
I took sufi dance lessons in the early 70's. It is a most interesting thing. A positive experience and fun at the time indeed.

I am curious why a person with non-medical credentials is the preeminent dignitary on the qualifications of medical schools? for one who dances around like a dervish and recites all sorts of humbling quotes by Rumi steeped in the knowledge of the fortunate and the inauspicious stars, the BBC and valueMD to me anyhow aren't the proper hostel for such talents.
Most interesting indeed, I guess if things don't work out for st.chris I should look into this apparently very lucrative form of business. It seems to encompass all facets. I get to be an all wise oracle, directing young minds to the appropriate receptacle, while keeping a radically post modern 15 minutes of fame on the radio talk show of my choice. Hey it is a living

azskeptic
11-10-2005, 12:36 PM
I am curious why a person with non-medical credentials is the preeminent dignitary on the qualifications of medical schools? for one who dances around like a dervish and recites all sorts of humbling quotes by Rumi steeped in the knowledge of the fortunate and the inauspicious stars, the BBC and valueMD to me anyhow aren't the proper hostel for such talents.
Most interesting indeed, I guess if things don't work out for st.chris I should look into this apparently very lucrative form of business. It seems to encompass all facets. I get to be an all wise oracle, directing young minds to the appropriate receptacle, while keeping a radically post modern 15 minutes of fame on the radio talk show of my choice. Hey it is a living There you go. Congrats on understanding it all.

Smythe
11-10-2005, 01:01 PM
I am what I am.

.......and that's all that I am

http://new.wavlist.com/tv/019/pop-scared.wav

http://excursia.bestreadguide.com/lasvegas/images/012802/popeye.jpg

azskeptic
11-10-2005, 01:19 PM
.......and that's all that I am

http://new.wavlist.com/tv/019/pop-scared.wav

http://excursia.bestreadguide.com/lasvegas/images/012802/popeye.jpg

http://www.culttelly.co.uk/lyrics/pop.html

Popeye

I'm Popeye the Sailor Man,
I'm Popeye the Sailor Man.
I'm strong to the finich
Cause I eats me spinach.
I'm Popeye the Sailor Man.

I'm one tough Gazookus
Which hates all Palookas
Wot ain't on the up and square.
I biffs 'em and buffs 'em
And always out roughs 'em
But none of 'em gets nowhere.

If anyone dares to risk my "Fisk",
It's "Boff" an' it's "Wham" un'erstan'?
So keep "Good Be-hav-or"
That's your one life saver
With Popeye the Sailor Man.

I'm Popeye the Sailor Man,
I'm Popeye the Sailor Man.
I'm strong to the finich
Cause I eats me spinach.
I'm Popeye the Sailor Man.

Smythe
11-10-2005, 01:21 PM
I took sufi dance lessons in the early 70's. It is a most interesting thing. A positive experience and fun at the time indeed.

http://new.wavlist.com/tv/011/fallen.wav

http://new.wavlist.com/humor/001/911d.wav

OLDPRO
11-10-2005, 01:44 PM
A friendly reminder, please post on subject not off topic. I will close a thread that continues off topic. This is a serious subject to the students of this school.

milhouse
11-10-2005, 04:11 PM
"There you go. Congrats on understanding it all."
you are a typical bourgeois!! one needs no expended effort in understanding your pursuits. Enjoy your canned food =)
______________________
"Medici graviores morbos asperis remediis curant"

azskeptic
11-10-2005, 04:42 PM
"There you go. Congrats on understanding it all."
you are a typical bourgeois!! one needs no expended effort in understanding your pursuits. Enjoy your canned food =)
______________________
"Medici graviores morbos asperis remediis curant" Thanks

Ad praesens ova cras pullis sunt meliora - Eggs today are better than chickens tomorrow

neilc
11-10-2005, 05:02 PM
Last warning, DOC the site administrator has stated that this topic is off limits, Alerts and warnings will be given out for posting on this topic further.

If you want to, take it up with DOC.

Thanks.

give me a break. this is the most ridiculous rule which shows ethier and extreme bias or lack of backbone on the part of this website. people that hold themselves up to be something, claim something on thier own website should be subject to public scrutiny.

at this rate, if any school or person is questioned, this site will refuse to post it....way to marginalize the information available, VMD. way to stand up for your rights as a public forum. hope you don't lose any advert money!

booooo VMD

milhouse
11-10-2005, 05:33 PM
Thanks

Ad praesens ova cras pullis sunt meliora - Eggs today are better than chickens tomorrow
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
ha alrajol kteer mothqaf ya'ani rabena yikoon fo oona. haba latin, yikmikn kaman fransawi, wo bil injeleezi bijanan, byro'os wya sufis sa'at bi radio, wo sa'at el forum, arjo yikoon bidfa'olak masary kteer lil talents ili malhash akher.
Don't mention it

Smythe
11-10-2005, 05:40 PM
"There you go. Congrats on understanding it all."
you are a typical bourgeois!! one needs no expended effort in understanding your pursuits. Enjoy your canned food =)
______________________
"Medici graviores morbos asperis remediis curant"


VIVE LA SIMPSONS!


http://www.synergizedsolutions.com/simpsons/pictures/others/milhouse_kindergarten.gif

et tu Milhouse?

michal
11-11-2005, 11:15 AM
Any news about the gmc investigations?

maximillian genossa
11-11-2005, 11:35 AM
It is not matter of doing a Google search and problem solved. This takes time. It would not surprise me if a GMC representative pays a visit to Senegal. Lets see what happens.



Any news about the gmc investigations?

OLDPRO
11-11-2005, 11:39 AM
Please do not start new threads on already opened subjects. I merged the threads.

stephew
11-11-2005, 04:44 PM
off topic posts split and moved to lounge. stay on topic or will close.

Miklos
11-12-2005, 07:52 AM
give me a break. this is the most ridiculous rule which shows ethier and extreme bias or lack of backbone on the part of this website. people that hold themselves up to be something, claim something on thier own website should be subject to public scrutiny.

at this rate, if any school or person is questioned, this site will refuse to post it....way to marginalize the information available, VMD. way to stand up for your rights as a public forum. hope you don't lose any advert money!

booooo VMD
Considering that the questions surrounding the qualifications of this particular individual (as well as others involved in the school administration) were broadcast by the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/fivelivereport.shtml)and are freely available to anyone with internet access (http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/fivelivereport.shtml) (thereby de facto making said person a public figure), I find the ban very interesting to say the least.

IMO, this does not reflect well on VMD especially if commercial considerations play a role.

gambino
11-14-2005, 02:15 PM
I absolutely agree with you, not only should those in the school be scrutinized but so should those who are earning a living by bashing and investigating the school also be scrutinized -- PUBLIC disclosure of their tax records/divorce filings, political/religious views and affiliations, and current sources of income should ALL be DISCLOSED so as to rule out any conflict of interest and establish that the sources "claiming to look out for the student" are not just as shady and disreputable as what they are claiming to look out against.

regards,
g



Considering that the questions surrounding the qualifications of this particular individual (as well as others involved in the school administration) were broadcast by the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/fivelivereport.shtml)and are freely available to anyone with internet access (http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/fivelivereport.shtml) (thereby de facto making said person a public figure), I find the ban very interesting to say the least.

IMO, this does not reflect well on VMD especially if commercial considerations play a role.

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 02:18 PM
I absolutely agree with you, not only should those in the school be scrutinized but so should those who are earning a living by bashing and investigating the school also be scrutinized -- PUBLIC disclosure of their tax records/divorce filings, political/religious views and affiliations, and current sources of income should ALL be DISCLOSED so as to rule out any conflict of interest and establish that the sources "claiming to look out for the student" are not just as shady and disreputable as what they are claiming to look out against.

regards,
g No thanks.

maximillian genossa
11-14-2005, 03:15 PM
Sounds like the fair and balanced thing to do.

:lolup:



I absolutely agree with you, not only should those in the school be scrutinized but so should those who are earning a living by bashing and investigating the school also be scrutinized -- PUBLIC disclosure of their tax records/divorce filings, political/religious views and affiliations, and current sources of income should ALL be DISCLOSED so as to rule out any conflict of interest and establish that the sources "claiming to look out for the student" are not just as shady and disreputable as what they are claiming to look out against.

regards,
g

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 03:20 PM
Sounds like the fair and balanced thing to do.

:lolup:

Virent Ova! Viret Perna!!

maximillian genossa
11-14-2005, 03:22 PM
it seems you don't like that idea



Virent Ova! Viret Perna!!

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 03:27 PM
no,have no emotion about it but since I don't have any standing in this particular battle it isn't mine to do. They can check the BBC and GMC who I am certain have up to date paperwork to show them.

Sum 'Pincerna' nominatus. Famulari...nunc paratus!

Incidentally we won WWII so people like myself don't have to wear identification as to our religion.

maximillian genossa
11-14-2005, 03:32 PM
For someone who claims to be a consumers advocate, especially your comments... "since I have no emotion about it but since I don't have any standing in this particular battle it isn't mine to do."

But now that I remember, you just re-post whatever you find around the internet. Ooops, I forgot, aren't you in charge if the AAIMG or something like that? That fact alone can open the door of possible conflicts of interests.

Just a thought from your friendly devils advocate.

:twisted:




no,have no emotion about it but since I don't have any standing in this particular battle it isn't mine to do. They can check the BBC and GMC who I am certain have up to date paperwork to show them.

Sum 'Pincerna' nominatus. Famulari...nunc paratus!

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 03:34 PM
For someone who claims to be a consumers advocate, especially your comments... "since I have no emotion about it but since I don't have any standing in this particular battle it isn't mine to do."

But now that I remember, you just re-post whatever you find around the internet. Ooops, I forgot, aren't you in charge if the AAIMG or something like that? That fact alone can open the door of possible conflicts of interests.

Just a thought from your friendly devils advocate.

:twisted: I am not in charge of aaimg..I own the domain which is being redone into something I am doing,not AAIMG. I post articles indeed.

maximillian genossa
11-14-2005, 03:37 PM
Into something you are doing. Interesting.







I am not in charge of aaimg..I own the domain which is being redone into something I am doing,not AAIMG. I post articles indeed.

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 03:41 PM
Into something you are doing. Interesting. so should I use www.foreignmedicalschool.info (http://www.foreignmedicalschool.info) or www.aaimg.com (http://www.aaimg.com) for my entry port to school info I am doing with an advisory board?

maximillian genossa
11-14-2005, 03:44 PM
AAIMG, it is an established name and sounds more professional, especially if you have a staff of consultants. The other name is too long.





so should I use www.foreignmedicalschool.info (http://www.foreignmedicalschool.info) or www.aaimg.com (http://www.aaimg.com) for my entry port to school info I am doing with an advisory board?

OLDPRO
11-14-2005, 05:21 PM
AZ, How could you take over a domain that is based in Russia?
How can you use a supposed group's name without ownership or membership?
In the article that states you stated that you took over the AAIMG web it was disclosed there were no members? So, seems like smoke and mirrors to me. How can a group without members do any kind of "investigations"?

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 05:26 PM
AZ, How could you take over a domain that is based in Russia?
How can you use a supposed group's name without ownership or membership?
In the article that states you stated that you took over the AAIMG web it was disclosed there were no members? So, seems like smoke and mirrors to me. How can a group without members do any kind of "investigations"? it was given me by the former domain manager in Russia. It is now based in Phoenix Arizona. I am assembling my own advisory team made up of professors, credential evaluators, and IMGs for a new project. The domain is hosted on godaddy.com's servers.

OLDPRO
11-14-2005, 05:34 PM
it was given me by the former domain manager in Russia. It is now based in Phoenix Arizona. I am assembling my own advisory team made up of professors, credential evaluators, and IMGs for a new project. The domain is hosted on godaddy.com's servers.
But to even use the Name AAIMG will open you up to possible legal problems.
You will have to prove the history of the organisation and with paperwork to back it up,if they really did the investigations. It has been claimed by the schools listed on the old site, visits and investiations were never conducted.
Why risk it?

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 05:38 PM
But to even use the Name AAIMG will open you up to possible legal problems.
You will have to prove the history of the organisation and with paperwork to back it up,if they really did the investigations. It has been claimed by the schools listed on the old site, visits and investiations were never conducted.
Why risk it? Have no intention of using aaimg's stuff....their old domain will feed to my website I am designing currently. But their work was meaningful...many people come to visit me via aaimg now for information and are missing the aaimg site that used to be up.

Smythe
11-14-2005, 05:47 PM
But to even use the Name AAIMG will open you up to possible legal problems.


Like what?
You will have to prove the history of the organisation and with paperwork to back it up,if they really did the investigations. It has been claimed by the schools listed on the old site, visits and investiations were never conducted.
Why risk it?

Are you discussing the Senegalese ministry of education or AAIMG?

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 05:54 PM
Are you discussing the Senegalese ministry of education or AAIMG? Well, I haven't talked to him recently....what is he like? You seem to be a man of the world..have you met him in your world travels?

OLDPRO
11-14-2005, 06:04 PM
Are you discussing the Senegalese ministry of education or AAIMG? Really both are off topic since the topic is......GMC Change of status.:offtopic: (Bad Mod, Bad Mod!)

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 06:05 PM
Really both are off topic since the topic is......GMC Change of status.:offtopic: (Bad Mod, Bad Mod!) Lets get it back on stream. What is happening with the GMC?

OLDPRO
11-14-2005, 06:10 PM
Lets get it back on stream. What is happening with the GMC? Don't know yet just heard about meetings? No details though since I'm not at school anymore.:confused:

microphage
11-14-2005, 07:04 PM
AZ, How could you take over a domain that is based in Russia?
How can you use a supposed group's name without ownership or membership?
In the article that states you stated that you took over the AAIMG web it was disclosed there were no members? So, seems like smoke and mirrors to me. How can a group without members do any kind of "investigations"?

yeah but you run a google group for a school u don't attend... How can u possibly give any new information about a school when you attend a "competitor"?

(kidding, I don't care)

teratos
11-14-2005, 08:16 PM
You know, the Russia arguement really annoys me. No offense, Whuds, but a lot of sites are hosted in Russia because it is cheap. All it means is that you are renting server space in Russia. It has nothing to do with where your organization is. They call it the "World Wide Web", that means a guy in Iowa can set up a website for people who like corn fritters on a server in Russia. It doesn't mean that anyone in Russia likes corn fritters. Domain names are like property these days. So, basically, AZ has gotten the rights to the domain. It is a domain we all know. What he does with it remains to be seen, but it will get traffic. G

LJG
11-14-2005, 08:29 PM
Lets get it back on stream. What is happening with the GMC?

According to the Director, the GMC was on campus last Thursday for a meeting. They had a quick look around and seemed happy with everything. They received copies of everything from the charter to letters of support from government officials. He believes the GMC will have a review of the doc and SCCOM will be reinstated.:D

LJG
11-14-2005, 08:33 PM
You know, the Russia arguement really annoys me. No offense, Whuds, but a lot of sites are hosted in Russia because it is cheap. All it means is that you are renting server space in Russia. It has nothing to do with where your organization is. They call it the "World Wide Web", that means a guy in Iowa can set up a website for people who like corn fritters on a server in Russia. It doesn't mean that anyone in Russia likes corn fritters. Domain names are like property these days. So, basically, AZ has gotten the rights to the domain. It is a domain we all know. What he does with it remains to be seen, but it will get traffic. G


Just a little bit SHADY. Maybe they are trying to avoid the American Legal system............:lolup:

amyames
11-14-2005, 08:33 PM
According to the Director, the GMC was on campus last Thursday for a meeting. They had a quick look around and seemed happy with everything. They received copies of everything from the charter to letters of support from government officials. He believes the GMC will have a review of the doc and SCCOM will be reinstated.:D


any expected timeframe for when they will review and put in their verdict?

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 08:35 PM
Just a little bit SHADY. Maybe they are trying to avoid the American Legal system............:lolup: I have one that is a domain from the cook islands...why? because the name was available there I wanted........

teratos
11-14-2005, 08:39 PM
Just a little bit SHADY. Maybe they are trying to avoid the American Legal system............:lolup:

No. That is VERY common on the web. Start doing IP searches on businesses. I bet you find a LOT of sites hosted in Russia. Again, this arguement simply shows a lack of understanding of the WWW. I'm not saying this to be insulting. I'm saying that it's true. Do you EVER pay attention to where the websites you visit are hosted?? Bet you don't. G

LJG
11-14-2005, 08:44 PM
No. That is VERY common on the web. Start doing IP searches on businesses. I bet you find a LOT of sites hosted in Russia. Again, this arguement simply shows a lack of understanding of the WWW. I'm not saying this to be insulting. I'm saying that it's true. Do you EVER pay attention to where the websites you visit are hosted?? Bet you don't. G

Name one comrade???????

teratos
11-14-2005, 08:46 PM
Name one comrade???????
Ya ne znaiyou cechass.

You look it up. Take a look at the websites you visit and track where they originate. I don't keep a mental note of such things. I think GoDaddy has servers in russia. G

LJG
11-14-2005, 08:48 PM
any expected timeframe for when they will review and put in their verdict?

He didn't mention a time frame but was very confident it will be positive.

LJG
11-14-2005, 08:54 PM
Ya ne znaiyou cechass.

You look it up. I don't keep a mental note of such things. I think GoDaddy has servers in russia. G

I still believe it's to try to avoid legal repercussions. Rumor has it St. Matt's has a law suit against the AAIMG and they believe that AZ's employer is behind it.

Call Dr. T at St. Matt's he loves to talk about it..... What say you AZ

teratos
11-14-2005, 08:59 PM
I still believe it's to try to avoid legal repercussions. Rumor has it St. Matt's has a law suit against the AAIMG and they believe that AZ's employer is behind it.

Call Dr. T at St. Matt's he loves to talk about it..... What say you AZ

It won't matter where the organization hosts it's website. If the individual supplying the information to the site is in the US, they will be subject to US laws. Even so, the lawsuits shouldn't affect AZ. He now owns the domain, but he didn't when the info was published. That's like saying if you bought a used car and it was involved in a hit-and-run, then you are guilty of the crime. AZ isn't employed by AAIMG, he owns the rights to the domain. G

LJG
11-14-2005, 09:06 PM
It won't matter where the organization hosts it's website. If the individual supplying the information to the site is in the US, they will be subject to US laws. Even so, the lawsuits shouldn't affect AZ. He now owns the domain, but he didn't when the info was published. That's like saying if you bought a used car and it was involved in a hit-and-run, then you are guilty of the crime. AZ isn't employed by AAIMG, he owns the rights to the domain. G

I think there are several lawyers very interested in how he obtained those rights and from who??????

Besides, I disagree with your analogy. If he buys a company he assumes it's liabilities.

LJG
11-14-2005, 09:20 PM
Does anyone think AZ will respond??????????????????????????????:confused:

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 09:35 PM
Does anyone think AZ will respond??????????????????????????????:confused: After a meal of wild mushroom sauce over a very well aged tender rib eye steak I can respond.

1. I didn't buy the corporation; I was gifted the domain ,not the files which are on the Russian server.
2. Attorneys make lots of money for things like this and I wish them well. THe truth is always your best defense.
3. Teratos said it best: you don't assume liability for a car when you buy it...
4. My employer is a very nice guy. He is me. But as John Q. Citizen I don't really mind about the games that some will try to play. Its ok.
5. Gee, you sure seem to be tied in somewhere....you one of those owners impersonating a student?

neilc
11-14-2005, 09:40 PM
a better analogy...think of a domain as real estate. az simply owns the location at aaimg.com. if you lease an office, you are not liable for previous business conducted at that location.

i love how everybody looks for a scapegoat. fact is, the schools let you down, not az. fighting the correct people is the first step. trying to shift the blame to somebody simply because they anticipated the problem is ridiculous.

if i was involved with st chris in any way, i would 1) transfer asap to any school that would take me, and leave all my credits behind and 2) be wicked pissed at whoever is in charge over there. obviously there are some serious issues, and it looks bad for anyone that had anything to do with the school during the mystery years of 2000-2003.

i feel bad for all those mixed up in this, but the fact is that many of these problems were predictable (and predicted).

azskeptic
11-14-2005, 09:45 PM
a better analogy...think of a domain as real estate. az simply owns the location at aaimg.com. if you lease an office, you are not liable for previous business conducted at that location.

i love how everybody looks for a scapegoat. fact is, the schools let you down, not az. fighting the correct people is the first step. trying to shift the blame to somebody simply because they anticipated the problem is ridiculous.

if i was involved with st chris in any way, i would 1) transfer asap to any school that would take me, and leave all my credits behind and 2) be wicked pissed at whoever is in charge over there. obviously there are some serious issues, and it looks bad for anyone that had anything to do with the school during the mystery years of 2000-2003.

i feel bad for all those mixed up in this, but the fact is that many of these problems were predictable (and predicted).


Scapegoat: Person or group of people blamed for crimes committed by others.

Cardinal
11-14-2005, 09:49 PM
I think there are several lawyers very interested in how he obtained those rights and from who??????
Besides, I disagree with your analogy. If he buys a company he assumes it's liabilities.

Yes and no, and in this situation NO. Don't make assumptions about things you may or may not know. You know how the saying goes. Good luck;)

LJG
11-15-2005, 03:51 AM
After a meal of wild mushroom sauce over a very well aged tender rib eye steak I can respond.

1. I didn't buy the corporation; I was gifted the domain ,not the files which are on the Russian server.
2. Attorneys make lots of money for things like this and I wish them well. THe truth is always your best defense.
3. Teratos said it best: you don't assume liability for a car when you buy it...
4. My employer is a very nice guy. He is me. But as John Q. Citizen I don't really mind about the games that some will try to play. Its ok.
5. Gee, you sure seem to be tied in somewhere....you one of those owners impersonating a student?

Can you share the source of your gift??? and is SCCOM part of the law suit against AAIMG??? My father is a close friend of several program directors as he heads a residency program and takes students from a couple different schools. He hears it all, as everyone tries to cut each other out.... maybe you should talk with my dad?????? But you still didn't answer!!!!!!!!!!!!

LJG
11-15-2005, 03:57 AM
Wow, just got back to my flat and found a letter addressed to me....... Someone just gifted me microsoft, am I lucky or what???????:rolleyes:

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 03:57 AM
You know, the Russia arguement really annoys me. No offense, Whuds, but a lot of sites are hosted in Russia because it is cheap. All it means is that you are renting server space in Russia. It has nothing to do with where your organization is. They call it the "World Wide Web", that means a guy in Iowa can set up a website for people who like corn fritters on a server in Russia. It doesn't mean that anyone in Russia likes corn fritters. Domain names are like property these days. So, basically, AZ has gotten the rights to the domain. It is a domain we all know. What he does with it remains to be seen, but it will get traffic. G

Look I was asking questions brought up before and wondering what the answers were. The Russia question is valid since Russia will not take down web sites when a court anywhere else in the world rules they must. It's like suing a news paper in the USA for a story run and then the court rules in favor of the the one the story was run on. There is some proof that the AAIMG may not have been completely honest and truth telling about membership and visits. If that orginization lied about some things then it's credibility is in question. I'm just doing what AZ does, asking questions.

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 04:31 AM
Can you share the source of your gift??? and is SCCOM part of the law suit against AAIMG??? My father is a close friend of several program directors as he heads a residency program and takes students from a couple different schools. He hears it all, as everyone tries to cut each other out.... maybe you should talk with my dad?????? But you still didn't answer!!!!!!!!!!!! I know nothing about the lawsuit. Tell us about it.

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 05:26 AM
No. That is VERY common on the web. Start doing IP searches on businesses. I bet you find a LOT of sites hosted in Russia. Again, this arguement simply shows a lack of understanding of the WWW. I'm not saying this to be insulting. I'm saying that it's true. Do you EVER pay attention to where the websites you visit are hosted?? Bet you don't. GThe former Soviet Union, India, are cheap places to host servers due to low cost of employees who are well trained.

Domains are being sold out of other areas cheaply also. Cook Islands forinstance sells .cc domains

However the largest domain seller in the world is now godaddy.com here in Phoenix Az

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 05:28 AM
Can you share the source of your gift??? and is SCCOM part of the law suit against AAIMG??? My father is a close friend of several program directors as he heads a residency program and takes students from a couple different schools. He hears it all, as everyone tries to cut each other out.... maybe you should talk with my dad?????? But you still didn't answer!!!!!!!!!!!! Love to talk with your father. I know nothing about the suit or SCCOM's involvement.

teratos
11-15-2005, 05:32 AM
Look I was asking questions brought up before and wondering what the answers were. The Russia question is valid since Russia will not take down web sites when a court anywhere else in the world rules they must. It's like suing a news paper in the USA for a story run and then the court rules in favor of the the one the story was run on. There is some proof that the AAIMG may not have been completely honest and truth telling about membership and visits. If that orginization lied about some things then it's credibility is in question. I'm just doing what AZ does, asking questions.
This has been discussed before. If AZ is posting stuff on the web that isn't true, even if his site is hosted in Russia, he can still be sued for the content, since the intellectual aspect originates in the US. Sure, the Russian web host doesn't have to take the stuff down, but if a court rules against AZ, he will go to jail for contempt if the information isn't removed. Russia is a non-issue. G

Smythe
11-15-2005, 07:23 AM
a better analogy...think of a domain as real estate. az simply owns the location at aaimg.com. if you lease an office, you are not liable for previous business conducted at that location.

i love how everybody looks for a scapegoat. fact is, the schools let you down, not az. fighting the correct people is the first step. trying to shift the blame to somebody simply because they anticipated the problem is ridiculous.

if i was involved with st chris in any way, i would 1) transfer asap to any school that would take me, and leave all my credits behind and 2) be wicked pissed at whoever is in charge over there. obviously there are some serious issues, and it looks bad for anyone that had anything to do with the school during the mystery years of 2000-2003.

i feel bad for all those mixed up in this, but the fact is that many of these problems were predictable (and predicted).

These guys remind me of the women on a Jerry Springer show.
The boyfriend cheats on her, and rather than hit the boyfriend, they go after the other woman, who had no idea that the guy had another girlfriend.

I wonder how many of these concerned students are in fact school owners or paid stooges. "I AM WILLIAM WALLACE"



PS: Perhaps tinfoil hats should be added to the first semester book list

Smythe
11-15-2005, 07:27 AM
My father is a close friend of several program directors as he heads a residency program



and he let you go to Luton?

Sheesh!

AUCMD2006
11-15-2005, 08:25 AM
"If that orginization lied about some things then it's credibility is in question. I'm just doing what AZ does, asking questions."

hmmm...kind of like say a certain school??

scoobz1981
11-15-2005, 08:30 AM
I hope everything works out. I know all of you have worked sooo hard, and it would suck if now because of some story on the BBC there would be some sort of difficulty in getting your degree. Wishing you the best,

Val

AUCMD2006
11-15-2005, 08:46 AM
I hope everything works out. I know all of you have worked sooo hard, and it would suck if now because of some story on the BBC there would be some sort of difficulty in getting your degree. Wishing you the best,

Val

hopefully it all works out but if something is wrong its not the BBC story but the admisnitration they should be mad at.....

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 08:50 AM
hopefully it all works out but if something is wrong its not the BBC story but the admisnitration they should be mad at.....BBC would be responsible only if they reported something that wasn't true. I imagine their attorneys carefully review every program and detail before it is shown.

LJG
11-15-2005, 08:55 AM
BBC would be responsible only if they reported something that wasn't true. I imagine their attorneys carefully review every program and detail before it is shown.

So are you not going to answer the burning question..........

Who gifted you the AAIMG?????????

You know everything that I know about the law suit, St. Matt's currently has filed a law suit against the AAIMG (of course I got this second hand) and should be verified. Just like who gifted the AAIMG to AZ...........?

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 09:00 AM
So are you not going to answer the burning question..........

Who gifted you the AAIMG?????????

You know everything that I know about the law suit, St. Matt's currently has filed a law suit against the AAIMG (of course I got this second hand) and should be verified. Just like who gifted the AAIMG to AZ...........? aaimg website was owned by the webmaster who had it registered. Since we can't post names here his initials which were widely available on the internet since his registration was known are AD. Why don't you verify with your school why they are suing AAIIMG and enlighten us all.

There are several lawsuits going on between offshore medical schools. When they become available online I'll post details for all to review for their knowledge. That is another piece of the picture one needs to know about their school: why is it being sued and why is it suing others.

LJG
11-15-2005, 09:13 AM
aaimg website was owned by the webmaster who had it registered. Since we can't post names here his initials which were widely available on the internet since his registration was known are AD. Why don't you verify with your school why they are suing AAIIMG and enlighten us all.

There are several lawsuits going on between offshore medical schools. When they become available online I'll post details for all to review for their knowledge. That is another piece of the picture one needs to know about their school: why is it being sued and why is it suing others.

My program denies current involvement in any suits foreign or domestic......... Which is why I asked you are they involved in the suit and in what state??????

Why don't you PM the name of AD, I would love to do a search on this:rolleyes:

tanisha
11-15-2005, 10:07 AM
save yourselves the trouble and get out while you still can, you cannot bring the dead back to life. this school does not anytime soon look like it will come out of this situation suceesfully and people like whuds who were smart enough to transfer out before its too late should give you all a clue. start looking to apply to other schools where at least some of your credits will transfer before the school will eventually shut down and you will have to begin all over agian sending time, money, and credits down the drain.

LJG
11-15-2005, 10:19 AM
save yourselves the trouble and get out while you still can, you cannot bring the dead back to life. this school does not anytime soon look like it will come out of this situation suceesfully and people like whuds who were smart enough to transfer out before its too late should give you all a clue. start looking to apply to other schools where at least some of your credits will transfer before the school will eventually shut down and you will have to begin all over agian sending time, money, and credits down the drain.

I totally disagree with you, I believe the school will be approved and we can move onto another subject. Time alone will tell the truth and the admin has stated "simply a week or two depending on how fast the GMC can act". Besides isn't our goal to better ourselves.

LJG
11-15-2005, 10:22 AM
I can't wait for AZ to PM me the identity of AD, aka DF, aka PH, aka NS well you get the picture;)

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 10:22 AM
So are you not going to answer the burning question..........

Who gifted you the AAIMG?????????

You know everything that I know about the law suit, St. Matt's currently has filed a law suit against the AAIMG (of course I got this second hand) and should be verified. Just like who gifted the AAIMG to AZ...........? I have noticed that you constantly challenge,like you are used to being lied to or something. Be aware I am not a liar myself so you don't have to work from that space with me.

THis whole subject has been discussed at length here before at:

http://www.valuemd.com/main-foreign-medical-schools-forum/9922-aaimg-unmasked-some-info-those-who-wonder-2.html

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 10:25 AM
I can't wait for AZ to PM me the identity of AD, aka DF, aka PH, aka NS well you get the picture;) I don't know the initials you are pointing out but AD can be reached by email in the background info at:

http://www.valuemd.com/main-foreign-medical-schools-forum/9922-aaimg-unmasked-some-info-those-who-wonder-2.html

LJG
11-15-2005, 10:35 AM
I have noticed that you constantly challenge,like you are used to being lied to or something. Be aware I am not a liar myself so you don't have to work from that space with me.

THis whole subject has been discussed at length here before at:

http://www.valuemd.com/main-foreign-medical-schools-forum/9922-aaimg-unmasked-some-info-those-who-wonder-2.html

Sorry that won't work with me, I'm not constantly lied to at all. However please allow any skepticism I may have when someone gifts a bogus recruiting tool with the claim of it's ability to evaluate medical programs to a egg broker..............

Please understand I am not calling you a liar, but I do believe you are not being truthful. I will get back to you with the results of my search.:twisted:

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 10:47 AM
Sorry that won't work with me, I'm not constantly lied to at all. However please allow any skepticism I may have when someone gifts a bogus recruiting tool with the claim of it's ability to evaluate medical programs to a egg broker..............

Please understand I am not calling you a liar, but I do believe you are not being truthful. I will get back to you with the results of my search.:twisted:an egg broker who addresses state boards and speaks on the subject and is known. You have an owner die (Dr. Moore) and you need to give the domain away. How many people are working on this issue? Not many......so suppose I was the logical person. And you are calling me a liar but lets talk reality: research what I've written on valuemd and see how much of it has come true....amazing......how do I know what is happening? Because I read and research. It is always easy to call someone a liar who is saying something you don't like to hear......but history always shows who was not working from reality.

gambino
11-15-2005, 10:53 AM
The BBC has been caught in the past reporting faulty information and even faulted itself for reporting on the "Iraq has WMDs" lie which was first peddled from here in the U.S. by a discredited source currently under indictment. So if this whole thing turns out to be hogwash should the discredited source on this issue (i.e. St. Chris's charter in Senegal) also be given the same public and legal treatment as those in this administration under indictment? Seems Libby is not the only one peddling false information to sell an agenda in the UK.


BBC would be responsible only if they reported something that wasn't true. I imagine their attorneys carefully review every program and detail before it is shown.

Smythe
11-15-2005, 11:06 AM
BBC would be responsible only if they reported something that wasn't true. I imagine their attorneys carefully review every program and detail before it is shown.

I hear you are also taking over legal ownership of the BBC too.

I hope you know that you are responsible for any legal actions against the BBC, which occurred before you became BBC owner.

Admit it, you have an agenda don't you? First AAIMG, next BBC, and eventually McDonalds, where EGG McMUFFINS will be the only item on the menu. Sure it seemed like madness at first but then I realized you are an EGGMAN, and suddenly it all made sense

Smythe
11-15-2005, 11:11 AM
My program denies current involvement in any suits foreign or domestic......... Which is why I asked you are they involved in the suit and in what state??????

Why don't you PM the name of AD, I would love to do a search on this:rolleyes:

so is your current program completely disassociated with the chap who was slapped with the 500,000 dollar judgement?

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 11:13 AM
I hear you are also taking over legal ownership of the BBC too.

I hope you know that you are responsible for any actions against teh BBC, which occurred before you became BBC owner.

Admit it, you have an egenda don't you? First AAIMg, next BBC, and eventually McDonalds, where EGG McMUFFINS will be the only item on the menu. Sure it seemed like madness at first but then I realized you are an EGGMAN, and suddenly it all made sense I have to confess ...it is an egg conspiracy tied in with the Masons (since I am a Mason). Man, you are sharp on all of this. Can't hide a thing from you.

For those who have been on an island too long, this is an egg mcmuffinhttp://www.media.mcdonalds.com/secured/products/history/img/tm09.gif (http://www.media.mcdonalds.com/secured/products/history/img/tm09_lg.jpg)








and I realize you are involved because of your cousin

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:IHe2Cy_vPvMJ:www.indiaplaza.com/content/giftstoindia/mcdonalds/clown.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.indiaplaza.com/content/giftstoindia/mcdonalds/clown.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.indiaplaza.com/content/giftstoindia/mcdonalds/index.shtml&h=277&w=287&sz=19&tbnid=IHe2Cy_vPvMJ:&tbnh=106&tbnw=110&hl=en&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3DEgg%2BMcMuffin%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den %26lr%3D)

Smythe
11-15-2005, 11:19 AM
AZ I have a solution to your problem with the constant attacks:

I would say that after taking control of AAIMG, the BBC and McDonalds ( ownership of any or all provides no valuemd immunity ) you should then buy an offshore school from say.......Senegal and base it above a ....oh how about a McDonalds........in Luton.

Then you would be a school official and not only could the nice folks not attach your credibility on VMD, they couldn't even mention your name !!!

Of course I know you are a savvy businessman so I'm not sure if you'd want to buy a school like that


BTW: thanks for posting the pic of Ronald.
He's out of the hamburger business now and is busy working for The Senegalese Medical Association

stephew
11-15-2005, 11:33 AM
folks, enough of the slurs please. i dont care which countries or relgious groups you personally do or do not like. slurs wont be tolerated regarding any of them. if you have a complaint about a post we will happily investigate it if it is reported. retaliating in kind isnt ok.

tanisha
11-15-2005, 11:54 AM
how is it slurs, if an opinion is posted it is changed by one of the moderators, so what is the point of a forum, i thought it was to discuss issues and maturely post opinions in the most respectable way. moderatos (i will not name names so that i will not be accused of "disrespecting or "attacking") either wipe out what you said or pm you to erase what you say thereby relaying false information or no inforamtion at all. like I posted before it was seen realistically speaking st. chris does not look like it would come out of this, so the what I suggest as a back up plan is to start applying to other schools so that if all else fails and it does apparent look that transparent, your time, money, and credits will not all go down the drain.

Smythe
11-15-2005, 11:56 AM
how is it slurs, if an opinion is posted it is changed by one of the moderators, so what is the point of a forum, i thought it was to discuss issues and maturely post opinions in the most respectable way. moderatos (i will not name names so that i will not be accused of "disrespecting or "attacking") either wipe out what you said or pm you to erase what you say thereby relaying false information or no inforamtion at all. like I posted before it was seen realistically speaking st. chris does not look like it would come out of this, so the what I suggest as a back up plan is to start applying to other schools so that if all else fails and it does apparent look that transparent, your time, money, and credits will not all go down the drain.

This guy would really be in trouble since every word out of his mouth is a slur
http://www.cosmeticsurgerytimes.com/cosmeticsurgerytimes/data/articlestandard/cosmeticsurgerytimes/112003/49466/cst_2478_d.jpg

maximillian genossa
11-15-2005, 12:02 PM
Being skeptical, but in his case he is skeptical of what you post. Nothing wrong with that Az.


I have noticed that you constantly challenge,like you are used to being lied to or something. Be aware I am not a liar myself so you don't have to work from that space with me.

THis whole subject has been discussed at length here before at:

http://www.valuemd.com/main-foreign-medical-schools-forum/9922-aaimg-unmasked-some-info-those-who-wonder-2.html

Smythe
11-15-2005, 12:11 PM
Being skeptical, but in his case he is skeptical of what you post. Nothing wrong with that Az.

Very good.

Now let's ask ourselves : If one is lied to by a skeptic on an internet forum ( who mostly supplies links that people can evaluate and decide for themselves if they are true or not ) what damage is done?

If one is lied to by any particular school, who is taking your money, is that worse or better or the same as the damage done by an eggman?

I guess if you can't decide which is worse, there are lots of school administrators eager for you to fill out loan applications.

Step right up !
http://www.mightyspork.com/images/PT%20Barnum.jpg

maximillian genossa
11-15-2005, 12:22 PM
That makes me think, If you want to make a quick buck...what is more profitable, openning a casino in a country with relaxed laws, or openning a medical school with relaxed laws?


:confused:




Very good.

Now let's ask ourselves : If one is lied to by a skeptic on an internet forum ( who mostly supplies links that people can evaluate and decide for themselves if they are true or not ) what damage is done?

If one is lied to by any particular school, who is taking your money, is that worse or better or the same as the damage done by an eggman?

I guess if you can't decide which is worse, there are lots of school administrators eager for you to fill out loan applications.

Step right up !
http://www.mightyspork.com/images/PT%20Barnum.jpg

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 12:30 PM
That makes me think, If you want to make a quick buck...what is more profitable, openning a casino in a country with relaxed laws, or openning a medical school with relaxed laws?


:confused: It appears students ask less questons than people who feel cheated by a wheel game in a casino

Smythe
11-15-2005, 12:30 PM
That makes me think, If you want to make a quick buck...what is more profitable, openning a casino in a country with relaxed laws, or openning a medical school with relaxed laws?


:confused:

depends entirely on the skill of those willing to gamble their money.

rest assured, my old boss PT Barnum tells me there's a sucker born every minute.
Lots of $$ to be made in either venue

maximillian genossa
11-15-2005, 12:34 PM
That name is familiar...


depends entirely on the skill of those willing to gamble their money.

rest assured, my old boss PT Barnum tells me there's a sucker born every minute.
Lots of $$ to be made in either venue

Smythe
11-15-2005, 12:36 PM
That name is familiar...

He is good friends with Georgie Porgie

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 12:37 PM
That name is familiar... or as we refer to him here on our TOS system PTB

tanisha
11-15-2005, 01:22 PM
folks, enough of the slurs please. i dont care which countries or relgious groups you personally do or do not like. slurs wont be tolerated regarding any of them. if you have a complaint about a post we will happily investigate it if it is reported. retaliating in kind isnt ok.

i don't see you saying anything to another moderator who i will not name before i am "attacking" or "bashing". so hypocritical the school has a 110% of being closed down and instead of attempting to discuss the forum another modertor choosed to joke about it. if that were me i get a pm so quick telling me to "take down" or "change" or "refrain from". MODERATORS DO YOUR JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smythe
11-15-2005, 01:28 PM
i don't see you saying anything to another moderator who i will not name before i am "attacking" or "bashing". so hypocritical the school has a 110% of being closed down and instead of attempting to discuss the forum another modertor choosed to joke about it. if that were me i get a pm so quick telling me to "take down" or "change" or "refrain from". MODERATORS DO YOUR JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you asked me AZ is about the only one who actually is doing a good job.

there is a difference between out and out malignant TOS no no's and people just having normal conversation. He knows the difference.

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 01:30 PM
i don't see you saying anything to another moderator who i will not name before i am "attacking" or "bashing". so hypocritical the school has a 110% of being closed down and instead of attempting to discuss the forum another modertor choosed to joke about it. if that were me i get a pm so quick telling me to "take down" or "change" or "refrain from". MODERATORS DO YOUR JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tanisha I'm sorry but that is not clear?:lolup:

The school has about a 100% chance of Not being closed down. :lol:

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 01:36 PM
if you asked me AZ is about the only one who actually is doing a good job.

there is a difference between out and out malignant TOS no no's and people just having normal conversation. He knows the difference.
And what job is he getting paid for? Is there something you would like to tell us? I went to the school and I know the students and the the teaching.

I have a right to give an informed opinion about the school.

Have you set foot in a Medical school classroom? You have said no! So what qualifies you to tell us about medical school? You and AZ have not been through what the students have been through. I think you do not have the knowledge we have. I know this about you per your posts here telling us you are not a medical student. Well We are.

I'm posting in the forum set up to discuss issues about a school I applied and went to for a year. You have not gone to any medical school let alone this one but continue to come here and make jokes and post.

Think hard on this one.

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 01:38 PM
And what job is he getting paid for? Is there something you would like to tell us? I went to the school and I know the students and the the teaching.

I have a right to give an informed opinion about the school.

Have you set foot in a Medical school classroom? You have said no! So what qualifies you to tell us about medical school? You and AZ have not been through what the students have been through. I think you do not have the knowledge we have. I know this about you per your posts here telling us you are not a medical student. Well We are.

I'm posting in the forum set up to discuss issues about a school I applied and went to for a year. You have not gone to any medical school let alone this one but continue to come here and make jokes and post.

Think hard on this one. Yeah, let me know so I can be sure I am billing for it. The ones doing the jobs usually know who they are working for but in this case no one told me I have a job.

LJG
11-15-2005, 01:39 PM
an egg broker who addresses state boards and speaks on the subject and is known. You have an owner die (Dr. Moore) and you need to give the domain away. How many people are working on this issue? Not many......so suppose I was the logical person. And you are calling me a liar but lets talk reality: research what I've written on valuemd and see how much of it has come true....amazing......how do I know what is happening? Because I read and research. It is always easy to call someone a liar who is saying something you don't like to hear......but history always shows who was not working from reality.

Didn't Dr. Moore die in 93,???????????

maybe you should do the research like you claim toooooooooooooo.

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 01:42 PM
Didn't Dr. Moore die in 93,???????????

maybe you should do the research like you claim toooooooooooooo. was informed he died this summer. Show me the obit you speak about? another Dr M?

Smythe
11-15-2005, 02:11 PM
And what job is he getting paid for? Is there something you would like to tell us? I went to the school and I know the students and the the teaching.

I have a right to give an informed opinion about the school.

Have you set foot in a Medical school classroom? You have said no! So what qualifies you to tell us about medical school? You and AZ have not been through what the students have been through. I think you do not have the knowledge we have. I know this about you per your posts here telling us you are not a medical student. Well We are.

I'm posting in the forum set up to discuss issues about a school I applied and went to for a year. You have not gone to any medical school let alone this one but continue to come here and make jokes and post.

Think hard on this one.

1. I have graduated clown college. My clown college has never been under investigation.
2. I am every bit as board certified in Medicine as you are : NOT
3. I have just as many state medical licenses as you do : ZERO
4. Not Locking multiple threads and changing threads for teensy little things is what I am referring to when I say AZ is doing a good job.
5. Everybody can use a few jokes. Music is good too, but I can't play my violin as well as the guys did on Titanic when she was going down.
I'll do my best though given the limitations of a message board
6. Enjoy the caribbean. I hear it's nice after Hurricane season ends
:violin:

LJG
11-15-2005, 02:13 PM
was informed he died this summer. Show me the obit you speak about? another Dr M?

I believe it's up to you to show us the obit from the summer and of course we'll need to verify this so it may require the name of the funeral home, state, well you get the idea. I'm very eager to verify your research skills...

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 02:22 PM
1. I have graduated clown college. My clown college has never been under investigation.
2. I am every bit as board certified in Medicine as you are : NOT
3. I have just as many state medical licenses as you do : ZERO
4. Not Locking multiple threads and changing threads for teensy little things is what I am referring to when I say AZ is doing a good job.
5. Everybody can use a few jokes. Music is good too, but I can't play my violin as well as the guys did on Titanic when she was going down.
I'll do my best though given the limitations of a message board
6. Enjoy the caribbean. I hear it's nice after Hurricane season ends
:violin: :lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:
Well You "Clown" I have held 6 Licenses in 6 different states to practice in the medical field and I'm an Expert in my field in which you have no expertise in any part of medicine. I currently hold a License in one state.
You do not. So want to claim anything else? Besides Medical school now, I practiced in my field for over 17 years and wrote articles and taught. SOOOOOOOOOO you don't know everything do you? I have credentials and can speak WITH KNOWLEDGE on subjects such as these.

I never locked a thread over AZ and I moved one to another area here unlocked. The Super mods have locked other threads. As far as the stickies they are of my and other mods creation and meant to be locked. Read the TOS Mods have the right to do these things.

PS. There has not been a Hurricane for over 60 years in the area I'm going.

Smythe
11-15-2005, 02:23 PM
I believe it's up to you to show us the obit from the summer and of course we'll need to verify this so it may require the name of the funeral home, state, well you get the idea. I'm very eager to verify your research skills...

Regarding the Death of Dr Moore, I think this should settle it once and for all.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/03/29/stories/2002032901701400.htm

LJG
11-15-2005, 02:25 PM
Regarding the Death of Dr Moore, I think this should settle it once and for all.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/03/29/stories/2002032901701400.htm


When did Dudley Moore die???????????:(

Smythe
11-15-2005, 02:28 PM
When did Dudley Moore die???????????:(

Hey I can't do all your research for you. :cool:

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 02:33 PM
Again you are off topic and making a joke of an important topic. If the AAIMG has lied at all its credibility is in question and so is it infromation.

neilc
11-15-2005, 02:39 PM
If the AAIMG has lied at all its credibility is in question and so is it infromation.


replace AAIMG with the name of a certain director at st chris....see how it works both ways?

i agree that credibility is key..is AAIMG credible? well, when i first saw the site, it was pretty darn accurate. so, at one point, i do believe that all the info was true. unfortunately, it was not kept up to date, and it was less transparent than i would have liked. but, still pretty good info for a time. but, again, as far as a certain school is concerned...there seem to have been many lies going on for several years, and the staff won't even verify credentials that they claim! talk about a lack of credibility which reflects on the ENTIRE school.

Smythe
11-15-2005, 02:42 PM
Again you are off topic and making a joke of an important topic. If the AAIMG has lied at all its credibility is in question and so is it infromation.

what is the topic?

The thread is titled GMC intestigation, not AAIMG lied.
So any discussion of AAIMG is really off topic.

As long as a thread strays a little bit , I think a reference to the passing Dudley Moore is relevent, in that he was British and he played Arthur Bach, who had trouble with reality. So you can see he is very germane to the thread

So to make this post on topic, are there any conflicting documents out there as to the relationships of the school with Senegal in 2000?..........specifically letters to La Ministre de la Sante and also between The American Embassy in Senegal in 2000 and The Senagelese ministry of Health ?...and are these documents at the center of the BBC's report and the GMC investigation? Just curious

LJG
11-15-2005, 02:44 PM
Again you are off topic and making a joke of an important topic. If the AAIMG has lied at all its credibility is in question and so is it infromation.

You can NOT put AAIMG and the word credibility in the same sentence....

Smythe
11-15-2005, 02:47 PM
You can NOT put AAIMG and the word credibility in the same sentence....

well you can now since the eggman came onto the scene :lolup:

LJG
11-15-2005, 02:51 PM
well you can now since the eggman came onto the scene :lolup:

Is that some kind of yoke :lolup:

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 02:53 PM
replace AAIMG with the name of a certain director at st chris....see how it works both ways?

i agree that credibility is key..is AAIMG credible? well, when i first saw the site, it was pretty darn accurate. so, at one point, i do believe that all the info was true. unfortunately, it was not kept up to date, and it was less transparent than i would have liked. but, still pretty good info for a time. but, again, as far as a certain school is concerned...there seem to have been many lies going on for several years, and the staff won't even verify credentials that they claim! talk about a lack of credibility which reflects on the ENTIRE school.

But the whole AAIMG thing was based on creditibility, a school is not always such. There have been stories in the past, Many on schools out there on lies and bad practices and mistakes some at the Famous Johns Hopkins no less. There are stories of experiments that happend back in the late 19th centry at that school that are against the law now and unethical.

That does not make it a bad school.

As far as topic yes I joined in here on a topic that was already off topic.
Like all of you I could not resist.

I could close this thread if you want;)

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 02:57 PM
well you can now since the eggman came onto the scene :lolup:

SMYTHE you praise and follow AZ way too much. The students at the school think they know who you are. :confused: Why don't you just leave these students alone.:confused:

Smythe
11-15-2005, 02:57 PM
But the whole AAIMG thing was based on creditibility, a school is not always such. There have been stories in the past, Many on schools out there on lies and bad practices and mistakes some at the Famous Johns Hopkins no less. There are stories of experiments that happend back in the late 19th centry at that school that are against the law now and unethical.

That does not make it a bad school.

As far as topic yes I joined in here on a topic that was already off topic.
Like all of you I could not resist.

I could close this thread if you want;)

I like the topic as it.
It meanders like an alcoholic who found a 20 dollar bill and splurged on a bottle of something strong ( only it smells better )

I say leave it open, pending GMC investigation. I am sure in the end, this thread will be vindicated---topic and off topic meanderings

LJG
11-15-2005, 03:00 PM
What happened to AZ and the obit?????

Miklos
11-15-2005, 03:00 PM
But the whole AAIMG thing was based on creditibility, a school is not always such. There have been stories in the past, Many on schools out there on lies and bad practices and mistakes some at the Famous Johns Hopkins no less. There are stories of experiments that happend back in the late 19th centry at that school that are against the law now and unethical.

That does not make it a bad school.
The first chief of staff at Johns Hopkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johns_Hopkins_Hospital) was William Osler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_William_Osler).

I can't begin to express how laughable it is to me to even try and compare SC with Johns Hopkins in 1889 or anytime since.

Please spare us.

Thanks.

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 03:01 PM
I believe it's up to you to show us the obit from the summer and of course we'll need to verify this so it may require the name of the funeral home, state, well you get the idea. I'm very eager to verify your research skills... Not my place to release that information. You can write the folks at aaimg or AD, their web site administrator if it is of interest to you.

LJG
11-15-2005, 03:12 PM
Not my place to release that information. You can write the folks at aaimg or AD, their web site administrator if it is of interest to you.


Eggcellent answer, what a load of bull,

The best way not to lie is to say nothing and AZ's sticking to it.

need I say Moore.

neilc
11-15-2005, 03:14 PM
But the whole AAIMG thing was based on creditibility, a school is not always such. There have been stories in the past, Many on schools out there on lies and bad practices and mistakes some at the Famous Johns Hopkins no less. There are stories of experiments that happend back in the late 19th centry at that school that are against the law now and unethical.

That does not make it a bad school.

As far as topic yes I joined in here on a topic that was already off topic.
Like all of you I could not resist.

I could close this thread if you want;)

are you seriously comparing johns hopkins with st chris? as for mistakes, bad practices, yes these things happened at a lot of places in the past. but, that is a far, far cry from what is going on at st chris. they have a director with unverifiable credentials, who seems to have manufactured the senegal relationship, at least for the years 200-2003, possiby jeapordizing the careers of hundreds of students who (despite consistent good advice against it) chose to trust him and attend the school.

you come on here attacking the credibility of AAIMG. well, all i have ever heard is that the info is outdated. that is a lot different than making it up. it was correct at one time, the only problem is the lack of transparency and updates. then, you defend your old school, which has never been transparent about anything, and may have lied outright in an effort to get money from students. even IF aaimg was lying, they still never stooped to the level of tricking people out of money.

st chris is a far, far worse thing than an annonymous website. it is out to get cash by whatever means possible, even if that includes lying or misleading students. this pattern of behavior has been seen from the very begining, and is entrenched in the culture there, as can be demonstrated by a certian persons actions when it comes to claiming credentials without proof.

lots of fluff, no substance. "just pay the tuition and hope for the best" should be the schools motto

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 03:16 PM
The first chief of staff at Johns Hopkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johns_Hopkins_Hospital) was William Osler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_William_Osler).

I can't begin to express how laughable it is to me to even try and compare SC with Johns Hopkins in 1889 or anytime since.

Please spare us.

Thanks.
You please spare us! I have interviewed African Americans who live around JH in Baltimore and they told me stories of Grandparents and relatives who were misstreated by the hospital, "worked on" for free and experimented on. They are scared to set foot in the hospital even today. As I said earlier I have years of experience that many of you do not. And I used them as an example that every school, every hospital, every clinic has it's bad and it's good. It seems ( and you have a long history of this) that the only reason to post here is to point out the bad.

There are some good things and I'm very tired of only reading the bad. If I post something positive it gets beaten into the ground as I do. You all are very biased as per the posts as proof.

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 03:16 PM
Eggcellent answer, what a load of bull,

The best way not to lie is to say nothing and AZ's sticking to it.

need I say Moore. Well, since you believe nothing that I, or anyone else says, it won't do you any good so I think you should verify it for yourself. With your connections and close affiliations with administration you can figure it out and show everyone. We wait.

Smythe
11-15-2005, 03:18 PM
are you seriously comparing johns hopkins with st chris? as for mistakes, bad practices, yes these things happened at a lot of places in the past. but, that is a far, far cry from what is going on at st chris. they have a director with unverifiable credentials, who seems to have manufactured the senegal relationship, at least for the years 200-2003, possiby jeapordizing the careers of hundreds of students who (despite consistent good advice against it) chose to trust him and attend the school.

you come on here attacking the credibility of AAIMG. well, all i have ever heard is that the info is outdated. that is a lot different than making it up. it was correct at one time, the only problem is the lack of transparency and updates. then, you defend your old school, which has never been transparent about anything, and may have lied outright in an effort to get money from students. even IF aaimg was lying, they still never stooped to the level of tricking people out of money.

st chris is a far, far worse thing than an annonymous website. it is out to get cash by whatever means possible, even if that includes lying or misleading students. this pattern of behavior has been seen from the very begining, and is entrenched in the culture there, as can be demonstrated by a certian persons actions when it comes to claiming credentials without proof.

lots of fluff, no substance. "just pay the tuition and hope for the best" should be the schools motto

HELP WANTED : FLUFFER

oops, wrong industry. :oops:

LJG
11-15-2005, 03:27 PM
Well, since you believe nothing that I, or anyone else says, it won't do you any good so I think you should verify it for yourself. With your connections and close affiliations with administration you can figure it out and show everyone. We wait.

Come on were on the internet, a forum where people conceal their true id and I'm just suppose to believe you. You can PM me the info if it exists.

Miklos
11-15-2005, 03:27 PM
You please spare us! I have interviewed African Americans who live around JH in Baltimore and they told me stories of Grandparents and relatives who were misstreated by the hospital, "worked on" for free and experimented on. They are scared to set foot in the hospital even today. As I said earlier I have years of experience that many of you do not. And I used them as an example that every school, every hospital, every clinic has it's bad and it's good. It seems ( and you have a long history of this) that the only reason to post here is to point out the bad.

There are some good things and I'm very tired of only reading the bad. If I post something positive it gets beaten into the ground as I do. You all are very biased as per the posts as proof.
I'm not familiar with this dark side of Johns Hopkins history. It may well exist. Perhaps you can point to something on the web regarding this?

Regardless, what is undeniable that the founding of Johns Hopkins ushered in a fundamental revolution in medical teaching, principally in the U.S. (of which all of us to one degree or another are beneficiaries). And that was only the start.

SCs history OTOH as neil points out above is very, very different (listen to the BBC). No one at SC can even dream of filling the shoes of a William Osler (and he was only one of the Big Four). I think you might wish to consider reading the wikipedia links I posted, if you didn't get this info during your history of medicine class.

azskeptic
11-15-2005, 03:38 PM
Look, none of us knows what is really happening with the GMC or in Luton right now unless we get some official word so everything we write is speculation right now. I'm sure we'll hear something one of these days (govt turns slow sometimes and when you are talking govt to govt even slower) and we'll await the information,per the announcement on the GMC site and disclosed by the BBC.

gambino
11-15-2005, 05:18 PM
Here is the link in question right here:

http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/8/johns_hopkins.htm

keep in mind that this is FAIRLY RECENT not the 1960s Tuskegee experiment when Blacks in the South were deliberately injected with syphillis to see what woudl happen and something which Clinton had to formally apologize for in the mid-1990s on behalf of the U.S. govt.

Now had this been a foreign med school some people on here would have used this as a jumping off point and started writing letters to the AMA, WHO, or state licensure boards demanding that the school be shut down. But since the victims are nameless,faceless black people and the school is so-called "regulated" and "prestigious" they will probably get away with a slap on the wrist or by paying a fine.

regards,
g



I'm not familiar with this dark side of Johns Hopkins history. It may well exist. Perhaps you can point to something on the web regarding this?

Regardless, what is undeniable that the founding of Johns Hopkins ushered in a fundamental revolution in medical teaching, principally in the U.S. (of which all of us to one degree or another are beneficiaries). And that was only the start.

SCs history OTOH as neil points out above is very, very different (listen to the BBC). No one at SC can even dream of filling the shoes of a William Osler (and he was only one of the Big Four). I think you might wish to consider reading the wikipedia links I posted, if you didn't get this info during your history of medicine class.

AUCMD2006
11-15-2005, 05:45 PM
"I'm not familiar with this dark side of Johns Hopkins history. It may well exist. Perhaps you can point to something on the web regarding this?"

you all seem to always place current notions of society, ethincs, and morality and apply it to things that happened in the past. the things that were done back then were socially acceptable for that time period in one way or another and you can not gauge things that those people sdid by todays ethics that eveolved as a direct result of those events. when you read about historical themes you ALWAYS have to place them in cultural and epoch perspective...

OLDPRO
11-15-2005, 07:41 PM
"I'm not familiar with this dark side of Johns Hopkins history. It may well exist. Perhaps you can point to something on the web regarding this?"

you all seem to always place current notions of society, ethincs, and morality and apply it to things that happened in the past. the things that were done back then were socially acceptable for that time period in one way or another and you can not gauge things that those people sdid by todays ethics that eveolved as a direct result of those events. when you read about historical themes you ALWAYS have to place them in cultural and epoch perspective... Why the web when I have first hand knowledge from the late 80's and early 90's? It was never acceptable just over looked. :rolleyes:

tanisha
11-15-2005, 08:54 PM
You please spare us! I have interviewed African Americans who live around JH in Baltimore and they told me stories of Grandparents and relatives who were misstreated by the hospital, "worked on" for free and experimented on. They are scared to set foot in the hospital even today. As I said earlier I have years of experience that many of you do not. And I used them as an example that every school, every hospital, every clinic has it's bad and it's good. It seems ( and you have a long history of this) that the only reason to post here is to point out the bad.

There are some good things and I'm very tired of only reading the bad. If I post something positive it gets beaten into the ground as I do. You all are very biased as per the posts as proof.

how in the world can you be that naivete'? it's sickening. for someone who was always pointing out the good and posting people about the bad saying of st. chris i must say it is disheartening that when st. chris needs you most you did the smart thing and transferred. how many other students know or have you advised to do the same thing...uh my guess zero. truth is st. chris may have been a good school had they been honest in the first place. it's so many things that are being heard that you don't even know what to beleive anymore and what's worst when you call the administrators they don't have a clue. so what is going on. and the really sad part is that students who are so determined to become a doctor at all costs go here and are not even the least bit told what is happening or going on, or what may happen? that's ludicrous and then you pay $1,000 US dollars that you cannot even get back for a school that not only lied but can't seem to hold it together when it comes to the credentials of the school. whuds I would like to say I toast to you, you made a smart move to get out while you can, to the others follow in his footsteps and run...run while you still can.

tanisha
11-15-2005, 08:58 PM
Here is the link in question right here:

http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/8/johns_hopkins.htm

keep in mind that this is FAIRLY RECENT not the 1960s Tuskegee experiment when Blacks in the South were deliberately injected with syphillis to see what woudl happen and something which Clinton had to formally apologize for in the mid-1990s on behalf of the U.S. govt.

Now had this been a foreign med school some people on here would have used this as a jumping off point and started writing letters to the AMA, WHO, or state licensure boards demanding that the school be shut down. But since the victims are nameless,faceless black people and the school is so-called "regulated" and "prestigious" they will probably get away with a slap on the wrist or by paying a fine.

regards,
g

so what's your point?! how at all does this relate to st. chris have the potential to be shut down?

AUCMD2006
11-15-2005, 09:27 PM
it was acceptable so it was overlooked by most...if it hadn't been acceptable to most then it wouldn;t be overlooked

Miklos
11-16-2005, 03:55 AM
Here is the link in question right here:

http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/8/johns_hopkins.htm

keep in mind that this is FAIRLY RECENT not the 1960s Tuskegee experiment when Blacks in the South were deliberately injected with syphillis to see what woudl happen and something which Clinton had to formally apologize for in the mid-1990s on behalf of the U.S. govt.

Now had this been a foreign med school some people on here would have used this as a jumping off point and started writing letters to the AMA, WHO, or state licensure boards demanding that the school be shut down. But since the victims are nameless,faceless black people and the school is so-called "regulated" and "prestigious" they will probably get away with a slap on the wrist or by paying a fine.

regards,
g
Thanks for the link. I am well aware of Tuskegee. However, that has nothing to do with any of the issues at hand.

Regarding the lead study, a couple of quick points.

Unlike like, say, Senegal (where apparently paperwork has gone missing, or never actually existed), the U.S. has pretty good oversight of medical schools and research. If that link proves anything, it is that lawsuits brought by individuals can stop travesties from taking place (or minimizing their effects).


You please spare us! I have interviewed African Americans who live around JH in Baltimore and they told me stories of Grandparents and relatives who were misstreated by the hospital, "worked on" for free and experimented on. They are scared to set foot in the hospital even today.

[...]

Why the web when I have first hand knowledge from the late 80's and early 90's? It was never acceptable just over looked.
What proof:!::?: What you have is literally hearsay. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hearsay)

Please note that the actions of a couple of researchers does not equate into the action of the founder of a certain school, whose credentials (see above and elsewhere) as well as behavior in the face of questioning (where was that charter, again?) have been called into question by the BBC. Regardless of what the press may write, the action of the GMC to suspend the recognition of SCs diplomas pending an investigation is very revealing.

SC boosters would do well to come to grips with this reality, instead of worrying about the reputation of one of the world's top medical institutions (and by this I mean JH.)

Manny22
11-16-2005, 04:35 AM
this sucks. hopefully there really is an affiliation and there really is humanitarian work going on andf they will find something


hope can be fleeting a plan of recourse can be limiting....always choose the limiting factor (math...grade 12...or senior 4)

AUCMD2006
11-16-2005, 05:18 AM
hearsay is a misleading term specially when you talk to people who aren't medicaly trained....i've met quite a few people who felt we were all running experiments on them just because there are so many people following their care and they get so many tests... i guess being a student and a university affiliation has drawbacks....some of your patient population would feel more confortable getting their care at home from grandmother or whatever culture based "healer" they are used to so imagine getting an mri or an US having never seen one before or going to a big hospital after going to your "doc in a box" all your life....

Miklos
11-16-2005, 06:57 AM
hearsay is a misleading term specially when you talk to people who aren't medicaly trained....i've met quite a few people who felt we were all running experiments on them just because there are so many people following their care and they get so many tests... i guess being a student and a university affiliation has drawbacks....some of your patient population would feel more confortable getting their care at home from grandmother or whatever culture based "healer" they are used to so imagine getting an mri or an US having never seen one before or going to a big hospital after going to your "doc in a box" all your life....

In this case, hearsay is the proper term. Whuds did not speak to patients, he spoke to relatives of patients.


I have interviewed African Americans who live around JH in Baltimore and they told me stories of Grandparents and relatives who were misstreated by the hospital, "worked on" for free and experimented on. They are scared to set foot in the hospital even today.

azskeptic
11-16-2005, 07:03 AM
In this case, hearsay is the proper term. Whuds did not speak to patients, he spoke to relatives of patients.sometimes there are glaring examples of why you shouldn't be your own doctor. It is hard to be objective when you have alot tied up in a decision you have made. My take on medicine is that it helps you learn to look to causes and cut the non-essential information around it. Eventually students will figure out what reality as the information becomes available. All of the side stories have little meaning in this drama.

OLDPRO
11-16-2005, 08:02 AM
In this case, hearsay is the proper term. Whuds did not speak to patients, he spoke to relatives of patients.
I'm sorry are you going to stoop so low to call these families liars to put me down?
Go as far to call me a liar because I spent $50,000 + this past year and went to this school? Well don't we feel so superior! I ask a straight forward question about another school yesterday and get completely ignored because I went to this school! This is getting way to personal now and I'm warning all of you to stop. This is not what this site is for. Don't go to the school if you you don't like it but keep the personal stuff out of it.

I have not and do not lie.

Miklos
11-16-2005, 08:09 AM
I'm sorry are you going to stoop so low to call these families liars to put me down?

No, whuds. Hearsay is exactly as I defined it. Please take a moment to look it up.

There is a reason it is not admissible in a court of law. Therefore it is not evidence. This is why I asked for documentation of such claims (such as the one provided by gambino.)


Go as far to call me a liar because I spent $50,000 + this past year and went to this school? Well don't we feel so superior! I ask a straight forward question about another school yesterday and get completely ignored because I went to this school! I hate people who are so biased and snobby that all they can do is out in the open on the internet on a schools site to discuss the school only post and post crap that is alleged. This is getting way to personal now and I'm warning all of you to stop. This is not what this site is for. Don't go to the school if you you don't like it but keep the personal stuff out of it.

I have not and do not lie.

I think that you need to take a deep breath and relax.

I responded to your comparison of JH with SC. Again, IMO, it is patently ridiculous even if there are issues with JH. See my past posts on this issue.

If you think that I've called you a liar, please be so kind as to point it out here or by pm. Thanks.

LJG
11-16-2005, 09:04 AM
Not my place to release that information. You can write the folks at aaimg or AD, their web site administrator if it is of interest to you.


Still no obit from AZ, sounds like he is walking on egg shells, no proff= ****

azskeptic
11-16-2005, 09:13 AM
Still no obit from AZ, sounds like he is walking on egg shells, no proff= **** Nope, no obit from me but it seems like it is important to you so I'd get it if it was.

sarahtarah
11-16-2005, 12:03 PM
So, any new news?

Smythe
11-16-2005, 12:32 PM
Nope, no obit from me but it seems like it is important to you so I'd get it if it was.

Az has a facsimile of the obit.
You can view it at his office, but you can't take a copy with you.

sound familiar?

azskeptic
11-16-2005, 12:42 PM
Az has a facsimile of the obit.
You can view it at his office, but you can't take a copy with you.

sound familiar? It is actually at my corporate office which is in Middleton Cork Ireland on the wall there.

Smythe
11-17-2005, 12:01 PM
From the BBC report there is mention of a "struck-off doctor"

What is a struck-off doctor?

How does one get struck off? Do you strike off by yourself or with others?

Is that bad? Is it like walking a picket line? There was mention of something about prison. Can you be sent to prison for striking off or do you get struck off in jail, or afterwards?

I am very confused. Can somebody please clarify this terminology for me. I know it must have something to do with British terminology. I don't speak English, only American ( and a little canadian )

Miklos
11-17-2005, 12:15 PM
From the BBC report there is mention of a "struck-off doctor"

What is a struck-off doctor?

How does one get struck off? Do you strike off by yourself or with others?

Is that bad? Is it like walking a picket line? There was mention of something about prison. Can you be sent to prison for striking off or do you get struck off in jail, or afterwards?

I am very confused. Can somebody please clarify this terminology for me. I know it must have something to do with British terminology. I don't speak English, only American ( and a little canadian )
In Britain (it is slowly changing now), you don't actually receive a license to practice medicine, your name is on a register (http://www.gmc-uk.org/register/index.asp) (maintained by the GMC). So, when your name is struck-off the register, you can no longer practice medicine. It is the equivalent of having your license suspended or revoked.

Smythe
11-17-2005, 12:19 PM
efharisto :D

Miklos
11-17-2005, 12:21 PM
efharisto :Dparakalo :D

nchi
11-17-2005, 02:57 PM
how in the world can you be that naivete'? it's sickening. for someone who was always pointing out the good and posting people about the bad saying of st. chris i must say it is disheartening that when st. chris needs you most you did the smart thing and transferred. how many other students know or have you advised to do the same thing...uh my guess zero. truth is st. chris may have been a good school had they been honest in the first place. it's so many things that are being heard that you don't even know what to beleive anymore and what's worst when you call the administrators they don't have a clue. so what is going on. and the really sad part is that students who are so determined to become a doctor at all costs go here and are not even the least bit told what is happening or going on, or what may happen? that's ludicrous and then you pay $1,000 US dollars that you cannot even get back for a school that not only lied but can't seem to hold it together when it comes to the credentials of the school. whuds I would like to say I toast to you, you made a smart move to get out while you can, to the others follow in his footsteps and run...run while you still can.

you can say that again.

OLDPRO
11-21-2005, 05:11 AM
how in the world can you be that naivete'? it's sickening. for someone who was always pointing out the good and posting people about the bad saying of st. chris i must say it is disheartening that when st. chris needs you most you did the smart thing and transferred. how many other students know or have you advised to do the same thing...uh my guess zero. truth is st. chris may have been a good school had they been honest in the first place. it's so many things that are being heard that you don't even know what to beleive anymore and what's worst when you call the administrators they don't have a clue. so what is going on. and the really sad part is that students who are so determined to become a doctor at all costs go here and are not even the least bit told what is happening or going on, or what may happen? that's ludicrous and then you pay $1,000 US dollars that you cannot even get back for a school that not only lied but can't seem to hold it together when it comes to the credentials of the school. whuds I would like to say I toast to you, you made a smart move to get out while you can, to the others follow in his footsteps and run...run while you still can.

Tanisha for the last time, Don't go to this school then!

As for the rest, well I have years of experience as a medical professional. Interviewed families as part of my job.

I'm not that important to St. Chris, I'm just a 1st year Medical student and have circumstances that require me to go elsewhere. The school doesn't "need me" they need to get their act together once and for all and get this straight so we can go on with our lives. All of us have spent way too much time discussing good and bad about an offshore school nobody heard of until it was in the news. Except for the few here ;)

tanisha
11-22-2005, 06:19 PM
[quote=whuds]Tanisha for the last time, Don't go to this school then!

As for the rest, well I have years of experience as a medical professional. Interviewed families as part of my job.

I'm not that important to St. Chris, I'm just a 1st year Medical student and have circumstances that require me to go elsewhere. The school doesn't "need me" they need to get their act together once and for all and get this straight so we can go on with our lives. All of us have spent way too much time discussing good and bad about an offshore school nobody heard of until it was in the news. Except for the few here ;)[/qu

NEWS FLASH WHUDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IT ISN'T ALWAYS ABOUT YOU,IT WAS NEVER ABOUT YOU IT WAS ABOUT THE DANG SCHOOL ST. CHRISTOPEHRS. Get over yourself and stop accusing me of "bashing the school" or whatever else pops into that head of yours. you don't like to hear the truth. and when its said, you pm people or give them warnings that don not even apply to the situation at hand. What I have posted, I didn't make up nor was it lied about. Truth is what it is. You are transferring right, okay then. Do the administrators know what is even going on? okay then. Have students post poned their acceptance to this or transferred because of the GMC? okay then?Can you get your $1,000.00 back after paying, if you choose not to attend the school? okay then. So where is your so called bashing that I am doing. May be you should go to law school instead od medical school to know what is what before you begin false accusations. Has the GMC and St. Christophers resolved the whole situation? Last week you said this week, next week you say next month, If you yourself have no idea, then don't give people false hopes based on your "good faith". Maybe it is a good idea that you go transfer, wherever you decide to go, wish them luck for me.

bts4202
11-22-2005, 06:48 PM
Tanisha for the last time, Don't go to this school then!

As for the rest, well I have years of experience as a medical professional. Interviewed families as part of my job.

I'm not that important to St. Chris, I'm just a 1st year Medical student and have circumstances that require me to go elsewhere. The school doesn't "need me" they need to get their act together once and for all and get this straight so we can go on with our lives. All of us have spent way too much time discussing good and bad about an offshore school nobody heard of until it was in the news. Except for the few here ;)

for the love of all that is holy, why do you feed the trolls?

microphage
11-22-2005, 10:11 PM
for the love of all that is holy, why do you feed the trolls?


whuds opens a buffet diner. :lol:

michal
11-25-2005, 02:44 AM
Id like to know if there is any information from the gmc?

OLDPRO
11-25-2005, 03:39 AM
Only what's posted here so far. Senegal met with the GMC as far as what's been posted.

microphage
11-27-2005, 01:52 AM
hey whuds, u still in luton?

OLDPRO
11-27-2005, 05:29 AM
hey whuds, u still in luton?
Yea until Xmas then the Carrib!

microphage
11-27-2005, 12:04 PM
Yea until Xmas then the Carrib!

FYI.. there's just one "r" in Carib...;)

desai29
11-27-2005, 01:02 PM
any final word on GMC?:confused:

OLDPRO
11-27-2005, 04:00 PM
any final word on GMC?:confused:
Sorry even in the UK they don't work on Sunday ;)

tanisha
11-27-2005, 05:53 PM
Yea until Xmas then the Carrib!

if the gmc reinstates st. chris licensure to continue in england, and the school progresses, will you transfer back into st. chris and finish up there? i asked you this before and you dodged the question by saying that I was attacking you and bashing the school. Just curious.

tanisha
11-27-2005, 05:54 PM
or did you out of st. chris? (oh yeah to anyone who wants be whuds shadow, he is feeding the troll)

CorporateRaider
11-28-2005, 08:55 AM
if the gmc reinstates st. chris licensure to continue in england, and the school progresses,...............SNIPPET


Does it really matter if the GMC did not re-instate SCU on their list of schools approved to sit for the P.L.A.B.?

No matter what, St. Chris is still a Bona Fide Government Recognized University and can (will) continue its operations in Senegal (home country). The students that are in England can simply transfer to Senegal; this is not a big deal, St. Chris's Charter is not on the line here, so if worse comes to worse, move to Senegal and finish there. Then return to where ever you came from to sit for your tests.


:D

hastaluego
11-28-2005, 10:41 AM
Just curious, are any of you out there who are reading this who were accepted for the January term still going to attend under the circumstances? I was planning on attending but it looks like I'll have to rush some applications in to other schools now. What are the rest of you thinking?

OLDPRO
11-28-2005, 11:26 AM
Just curious, are any of you out there who are reading this who were accepted for the January term still going to attend under the circumstances? I was planning on attending but it looks like I'll have to rush some applications in to other schools now. What are the rest of you thinking?

Do what you think is right. I think with what I've been told the school will be fine and this is a missunderstanding.

That said still do what you think is right.

neilc
11-28-2005, 11:38 AM
if these issuse are the only concern, then i think the safest advice is to wait until the issues are resolved. however, even if these issues with the GMC are resolved, the school still has a laundry list of issues. i would strongly encourage you to check out other options, and avoid st chris.

OLDPRO
11-28-2005, 11:46 AM
if these issuse are the only concern, then i think the safest advice is to wait until the issues are resolved. however, even if these issues with the GMC are resolved, the school still has a laundry list of issues. i would strongly encourage you to check out other options, and avoid st chris.

The only problem I see is that stuff like this is posted and really the only schools that do not have problems, like St. Chris, is going to be one of the "BIG THREE" or a school in Europe. The rest is a mixed bag and some have more problems. ;)

azskeptic
11-28-2005, 12:00 PM
The only problem I see is that stuff like this is posted and really the only schools that do not have problems, like St. Chris, is going to be one of the "BIG THREE" or a school in Europe. The rest is a mixed bag and some have more problems. ;) That is one of the unique things that you as an offshore medical student must do...learn to discern between the problems of the schools.

neilc
11-28-2005, 12:17 PM
The only problem I see is that stuff like this is posted and really the only schools that do not have problems, like St. Chris, is going to be one of the "BIG THREE" or a school in Europe. The rest is a mixed bag and some have more problems. ;)

well, i think there are a lot more than a few schools that target US citizens and are without major issues. examples are sgu, auc, saba, ross, the australian schools, ireland, isreal, uag. if those don't work out, some schools with some potential issues, include a few select CE schools, and smu. if you get beyond this, you need to do a lot of individual research to see exactly what you are getting into. as whuds said, they are a mixed bag, and st chris is certainly ahead of quite a few of these.

bts4202
11-28-2005, 04:13 PM
Personally, I would defer my acceptance for one semester and see what happens over the next month or so. If nothing changes or things get worse, you can always apply to another school for the next semester. However, the more likely scenario is that things will have resolved and in that case you will still have your acceptance and will have only "wasted" 4 months of time. Good luck with your decision.

DrShikima
11-29-2005, 12:38 PM
Personally, I would defer my acceptance for one semester and see what happens over the next month or so. If nothing changes or things get worse, you can always apply to another school for the next semester. However, the more likely scenario is that things will have resolved and in that case you will still have your acceptance and will have only "wasted" 4 months of time. Good luck with your decision.

Sound advice coming from a St. Chris student.

DrFluffy
12-06-2005, 12:28 PM
From todays BBC online (following a GMC meeting today):

NHS warned over private schools
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4504444.stm


Hospitals have been warned only to offer placements to students from accredited medical schools.

The General Medical Council issued guidance after a BBC Five Live investigation raised concerns over private medical schools in the UK...

...The GMC, which held its council meeting today, said that there were 27 UK medical schools recognised for providing medical education which complied with the curriculum it had set out.

It added organisations offering clinical placements should ensure that students are studying at one of these schools.

maximillian genossa
12-06-2005, 12:38 PM
From todays BBC online (following a GMC meeting today):

NHS warned over private schools
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4504444.stm

Very interesting article, since at the same time the GMC basically acknowledges its inability to provide a quality assurance role. I hope this helps the St. Chris administration and students realize they ARE NOT A UK MEDICAL SCHOOL and come to terms with their Senegalese charter.

Here is the article, from the source quoted above...

BBC NEWS
Last Updated: Tuesday, 6 December 2005, 16:56 GMT http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif

Hospitals have been warned only to offer placements to students from accredited medical schools.


The General Medical Council issued guidance after a BBC Five Live investigation raised concerns over private medical schools in the UK.
These schools, which charge thousands of pounds for training, claim degrees are awarded by overseas universities. The GMC said it was unable to vouch for the quality of the training given by such schools.

The GMC, which held its council meeting today, said that there were 27 UK medical schools recognised for providing medical education which complied with the curriculum it had set out.


It added organisations offering clinical placements should ensure that students are studying at one of these schools.
Fraud investigation
But the GMC said it was aware that there were some private UK and non-UK based medical colleges offering medical courses.

It said that these colleges did not fall within the GMC's jurisdiction and were not supervised or quality-assured in any way by them.

In its factsheet, the GMC said: "Any organisation considering providing clinical placements for the students from such colleges should assure itself about the medical education provision and the quality assurance arrangements.

"The GMC is unable to provide a quality assurance role and organisations are therefore strongly recommended to undertake thorough investigations, and take appropriate advice, before providing clinical placements for such students."

Finlay Scott, chief executive of the GMC, said that by issuing this advice they wanted to help protect patients from poor quality care.
"We are saying to hospitals that, before you give anyone access to your patients, you must make sure that they are qualified to care for them."
After last month's BBC investigation, the GMC announced it had suspended its recognition of the degrees of one Luton-based college and was investigating the status of four others.

The watchdog said it wanted to check that named overseas universities actually did award degrees - and that the universities themselves were on a World Health Organization list of accredited institutions.

The investigation in being carried out in conjunction with the NHS Counter Fraud Service.







Copyright © 2003-2018 ValueMD, LLC. All rights reserved.