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FreeSpirit
11-07-2005, 10:39 PM
If worse comes to worse for St. Chris, could the school operate out of its campus in Senegal? That way they would be operating in the country they're chartered in and thus avoid the problems they're having with operating outside their country of charter.

Studying in Senegal may not be as desirable for some students as studying in England, but it could nonetheless be a viable option if the situation in England doesn't work out and in the long run it could be beneficial for licensing purposes because the school would be in the actual country of charter.

It would be similar to Caribbean schools where students do their preclinical classes on an island and then go to the U.S. for clinicals, except for St. Chris students would do their preclinical classes in Senegal and then do their clinicals in the U.S.

neilc
11-07-2005, 11:16 PM
i am sure that would work, but would it be viable/profitable? i think the vast majority of students attend st chris so they can avoid living in less developed conditions. and, call me crazy, but i think that even the worst carib islands have an advantage on a location in senegal?

hopefully, if worse does come to worse, the school could at least remain open in senegal, and perhaps prosper there. that would help soften the blow for the grads and current students. otherwise, they would be pretty screwed, if the worst does happen

StChrisCS
11-07-2005, 11:34 PM
i am sure that would work, but would it be viable/profitable? i think the vast majority of students attend st chris so they can avoid living in less developed conditions. and, call me crazy, but i think that even the worst carib islands have an advantage on a location in senegal? I think that even the worst western european country has an advantage on a location in the former soviet bloc.

neilc
11-07-2005, 11:36 PM
I think that even the worst western european country has an advantage on a location in the former soviet bloc.

obviously you haven't been to prague...take a visit. it is just a short hop from london, and you will have fun.

by the way, what was the point of this post? what part of my post do you have an issue with?

StChrisCS
11-07-2005, 11:46 PM
obviously you haven't been to prague...take a visit. it is just a short hop from london, and you will have fun.

by the way, what was the point of this post? what part of my post do you have an issue with?and obviously you have never been to Senegal.

If you can't figure out what part of your previous post was offensive, you are a lost cause.

FreeSpirit
11-08-2005, 01:11 AM
Please let's try to keep at least this thread on topic and not involve personal grievances.

neilc, holding preclinical classes in Senegal may not be as desirable for students as in England but then again I would venture to say it would still attract students since they'd know they'd be there for only 4 semesters and could go back to the U.S. for 5th semester and for clinicals thereafter. Please understand that in no way am I disparaging Senegal. In fact I think many students might even prefer going to Africa for preclinical classes rather than going to some of the Caribbean islands as it would eliminate the "stigma" of going to a Caribbean school that some students are wary of since they would legitamitely be going to an African school in Africa. This is in addition to less problems with licensing if students attend med school in the actual country of charter.

###
11-08-2005, 01:40 AM
...............

FrenchFrie
11-08-2005, 04:48 AM
If this school gets their UK campus taken away it would go down worse than New Orleans. No one wants to go to Africa and no one speaks French. Dr L even told us, "hey if you want to volunteer to take a semester in Senegal you could." I dont think anyone has stepped up to this offer

FreeSpirit
11-08-2005, 05:07 AM
Dr L even told us, "hey if you want to volunteer to take a semester in Senegal you could." I dont think anyone has stepped up to this offer

This would at least indicate St. Chris has a functioning medical school in Senegal. If worse comes to worse they may be able to still function from Senegal depending on if they can accomodate the basic science students from England (or at least the students who would be willing to go to Senegal). A few people have said it wouldn't be a popular option since one of the main draws of St. Chris is its location in England, but having the parent school in Senegal is like an insurance policy if things don't work out in England so students won't be completely left out in the cold.

teratos
11-08-2005, 05:13 AM
Or maybe it's like saying "or you could stick a sharp stick in your eye". No takers??

AUCMD2006
11-08-2005, 07:16 AM
i thought they had a parent school in senegal and luton was just a satellite campus. so even if, however unlikely, they ghave to close luton tghey shoudl still have afully functional university system back in senegal...or at least that is what bts claimed by posting links to the unversity and campus there and saying luton is just a satellite campus of a much bigger university

medguy
11-08-2005, 09:46 AM
Just of of curiosity, how many full-time medical students attend St. Christopher's at the Senegal campus?

maximillian genossa
11-08-2005, 10:05 AM
That is exactly what they were supposed to do from the beginning, operate out of Senegal and make Luton an alternate Campus. My impression (and I hope I am wrong) is that they did the exact opposite. A poor strategic move.

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 10:34 AM
"hey if you want to volunteer to take a semester in Senegal you could." I dont think anyone has stepped up to this offerActually, you are wrong, several students I know have done just this.

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 10:35 AM
There seems to be some really awful bias on this thead, everyone here is so negative about Africa. Why is everyone here so negative about Africa? I think people here would be supportive of different ways of life and alternative paths, since that is what we have all had to do. Teratos, I am particularly disappointed in what you said, I expected better.

maximillian genossa
11-08-2005, 10:40 AM
Maybe the bias obeys to negative perceptions created by so many corrupted governments in the African continent. What I mean is your school may be safe with government X or Y today in a particular Nation, and after a coup de etat new government officials put you out of business.

Smythe
11-08-2005, 10:51 AM
There seems to be some really awful bias on this thead, everyone here is so negative about Africa. Why is everyone here so negative about Africa? I think people here would be supportive of different ways of life and alternative paths, since that is what we have all had to do. Teratos, I am particularly disappointed in what you said, I expected better.

when does your flight to Dakkar depart?

anubis
11-08-2005, 11:06 AM
If this school gets their UK campus taken away it would go down worse than New Orleans. No one wants to go to Africa and no one speaks French. Dr L even told us, "hey if you want to volunteer to take a semester in Senegal you could." I dont think anyone has stepped up to this offer Why would the Luton campus get shut down? My understanding is that the GMC would not recognize the degree, worst case scenario. Unfortunate for those wishing to practice in the UK. But the business would still be allowed to operate. Albeit a red flag to the U.S. Medical approval boards, but that is a distant projection. One thing at a time.

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 11:24 AM
Maybe the bias obeys to negative perceptions created by so many corrupted governments in the African continent. What I mean is your school may be safe with government X or Y today in a particular Nation, and after a coup de etat new government officials put you out of business.Actually, to the best of my knowledge, Senegal has had a stable multi-party democratic system since 1960, which is much longer than many countries and it a significant improvement over all the various dictatorial and autocratic states, especially in the eastern bloc of Europe.

azskeptic
11-08-2005, 11:26 AM
Actually, to the best of my knowledge, Senegal has had a stable multi-party democratic system since 1960, which is much longer than many countries and it a significant improvement over all the various dictatorial and autocratic states, especially in the eastern bloc of Europe. Read the State Department document on Senegal to learn

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1013.html

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 11:29 AM
Read the State Department document on Senegal to learn

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1013.html
And... This has what to do with what I posted about the Gov. of Senegal?

azskeptic
11-08-2005, 11:31 AM
And... This has what to do with what I posted about the Gov. of Senegal?

Originally Posted by StChrisCS
Actually, to the best of my knowledge, Senegal has had a stable multi-party democratic system since 1960

whats stable about a country that has been in a war and has US govt warnings about stability on the streets?

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by StChrisCS
Actually, to the best of my knowledge, Senegal has had a stable multi-party democratic system since 1960

whats stable about a country that has been in a war and has US govt warnings about stability on the streets?Funny, I haven't read anywhere that any of this has destabilized the Gov. of Senegal.

Plus, the same things can be said about france at the moment. They just declared a SOE. Stay away people, obviously France is Unstable!

azskeptic
11-08-2005, 11:35 AM
Funny, I haven't read anywhere that any of this has destabilized the Gov. of Senegal.

Plus, the same things can be said about france at the moment. They just declared a SOE. Stay away people, obviously France is Unstable! It is indeed advisable to stay out of the troubled areas of France right now and don't ride the train to the airport. That is a statement from the French govt. Our thoughts and support should go to the French govt in this tough time indeed.

FrenchFrie
11-08-2005, 12:34 PM
Actually, you are wrong, several students I know have done just this.

how come no one ever talks about them. shows NEW pictures. I might be missing the memo or something

FrenchFrie
11-08-2005, 12:38 PM
Why would the Luton campus get shut down? My understanding is that the GMC would not recognize the degree, worst case scenario. Unfortunate for those wishing to practice in the UK. But the business would still be allowed to operate. Albeit a red flag to the U.S. Medical approval boards, but that is a distant projection. One thing at a time.

Im just going on the hypothetical that if for whatever reason they say u cant be in the UK go back to AFrica, i just dont think too many people would go. PRobably alot of the current students will go since no one really take our credits, but no new student would go.

AUCMD2006
11-08-2005, 12:38 PM
how come no one ever talks about them. shows NEW pictures. I might be missing the memo or something

because it is much easier to just assume that since the option is there some will take it up. do you anyone that has gone? its been almost 3 years since that student went.

empathy
11-08-2005, 12:50 PM
Where's that Jersey article? When Mr. L. went before the Board in Jersey they said that the Senegal Campus was in the backroom of a doctor's office. From what I remember L. said they looked in the wrong place. Is that true? I'll dig up the article.

Manny22
11-08-2005, 01:11 PM
i thought they had a parent school in senegal and luton was just a satellite campus. so even if, however unlikely, they ghave to close luton tghey shoudl still have afully functional university system back in senegal...or at least that is what bts claimed by posting links to the unversity and campus there and saying luton is just a satellite campus of a much bigger university


there is no campus in senegal and just a building under construction... and no direct phone number for the senegal school....

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 01:14 PM
there is no campus in senegal and just a building under construction... and no direct phone number for the senegal school....Care to prove this?

Manny22
11-08-2005, 01:15 PM
It is indeed advisable to stay out of the troubled areas of France right now and don't ride the train to the airport. That is a statement from the French govt. Our thoughts and support should go to the French govt in this tough time indeed.

those riots errupted out of sheer frustration at the gov't from african/(other?) immigrants who were racially descriminated against... what we're seeing is the rodney king incident... this is LA riots all over again
if anything gov't is accountable to the people, and that is whose shoulders the burden now falls on to act ...

Manny22
11-08-2005, 01:15 PM
Care to prove this?

ask azkeptic for the BBC broadcast that stated it as being so

azskeptic
11-08-2005, 01:16 PM
Care to prove this? This is actually the job of the GMC, NHS Fraud Unit, and the WHO

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 01:17 PM
those riots errupted out of sheer frustration at the gov't from african/(other?) immigrants who were racially descriminated against... what we're seeing is the rodney king incident... this is LA riots all over again
if anything gov't is accountable to the people, and that is whose shoulders the burden now falls on to act ...I disagree, the US Gov. had the incident in LA under control much more quickly than the French and the damage wasn't nearly as severe. Literally thousands of cars and countless buildings have been burned throughout several towns and areas in France. At this rate, it threatens to engulf the country.

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 01:18 PM
ask azkeptic for the BBC broadcast that stated it as being soI don't believe that was ever said. If it was, I would be interested in hearing their source for this information.

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 01:19 PM
This is actually the job of the GMC, NHS Fraud Unit, and the WHOYou're wrong. It's the responsibility of the poster to provide proof of their accusations, otherwise it's just unfounded blather, like many posts lately.

Manny22
11-08-2005, 01:24 PM
I disagree, the US Gov. had the incident in LA under control much more quickly than the French and the damage wasn't nearly as severe. Literally thousands of cars and countless buildings have been burned throughout several towns and areas in France. At this rate, it threatens to engulf the country.

im saying that gov't has known about this problem for a while and not done anything about it and as a result we're seeing riots the likes of which are comparable to the la riots

mcgrady
11-08-2005, 01:25 PM
manny watch out for dirty mouth!!!

Manny22
11-08-2005, 01:25 PM
You're wrong. It's the responsibility of the poster to provide proof of their accusations, otherwise it's just unfounded blather, like many posts lately.
i have to go look for the link but, just for the sake of substantiating that claim... i hate going out of my way but... i got 5 minutes to kill

Manny22
11-08-2005, 01:28 PM
manny watch out for dirty mouth!!!
what are you talking about?

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 01:28 PM
im saying that gov't has known about this problem for a while and not done anything about it and as a result we're seeing riots the likes of which are comparable to the la riotsWhile this may be true of France, I don't think that had anything to with the riots in LA. The riots in LA were just the result of stupidity and people acting like animals.

Manny22
11-08-2005, 01:29 PM
so anyway... to reiterate...
here's the link that was previously supplied by az and where i got the statement about the senegal campus
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/netwo...live/worricker (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/networks/fivelive/aod.shtml?fivelive/worricker)

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 01:34 PM
so anyway... to reiterate...
here's the link that was previously supplied by az and where i got the statement about the senegal campus
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/netwo...live/worricker (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/netwo...live/worricker) Did they cite the source? Demonstrate any verification of that info?

FreeSpirit
11-08-2005, 01:39 PM
Dr L even told us, "hey if you want to volunteer to take a semester in Senegal you could."

A campus in Senegal does likely exist given the above statement, otherwise it wouldn't make sense for the school to say students can volunteer to study there if they want.

Some of the more pertinent questions are:

1. How many students currently attend the Senegal campus?

2. Does the Senegal campus have graduates who are practicing in Senegal or elsewhere?

3. Is the curriculum at the Senegal campus similar to the curriculum at the Luton campus (and can it accomodate English speakers)?

4. Can students from the Luton campus do one or all of their preclinical semesters at the Senegal campus if need be?

azskeptic
11-08-2005, 01:49 PM
A campus in Senegal does likely exist given the above statement, otherwise it wouldn't make sense for the school to say students can volunteer to study there if they want.

Some of the more pertinent questions are:

1. How many students currently attend the Senegal campus?

2. Does the Senegal campus have graduates who are practicing in Senegal or elsewhere?

3. Is the curriculum at the Senegal campus similar to the curriculum at the Luton campus (and can it accomodate English speakers)?

4. Can students from the Luton campus do one or all of their preclinical semesters at the Senegal campus if need be?

I'd add: Is there a formal agreement of satellite status for Luton?

Is the ownership of the 2 schools the same?

Is there an original copy of the WHO recognition that has been received
from official sources?

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 01:51 PM
Is there an original copy of the WHO recognition that has been received from official sources? This I am sure I have seen. I can't remember where, it was IMED/WHO/FAIMER, some official site like that. Back in 2003.

FreeSpirit
11-08-2005, 02:02 PM
The issue is not so much if the Senegal campus is recognized in official documents but rather if it has students currently studying there and if it has graduated doctors who are practicing in Senegal or elsewhere.

empathy
11-08-2005, 02:17 PM
Here's the article. Sorry, it took me a while to find it.


SPC partnership with med school hastily called off

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/inde...1518255060.xml (http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1080641518255060.xml)

SPC partnership with med school hastily called off

St. Christopher's diplomas said to be meaningless in N.J.


Tuesday, March 30, 2004


By K.
Journal staff writer

A partnership between St. Peter's College in Jersey City and an overseas medical school was killed last night, two weeks after it was announced, amid mounting concerns that its graduates would not be recognized as medical doctors by the state of New Jersey.

Touting the benefit of adding international flair to one's education, St. Peter's College officials had announced in mid-March an agreement with St. Christopher's School of Medicine in Luton, England, to train medical students in seven years.


Students would spend the first three years obtaining an undergraduate degree in biology at St. Peter's College, and the next four at the medical school to complete their doctorates in medicine, according to the agreement.

But an investigation by The Jersey Journal raised serious questions about the 4-year-old medical school's ability to keep its end of the bargain.

Asked about the medical school yesterday, an official with a national organization of college registrars and enrollment officers said he was very familiar with St. Christopher's.

"I know what it purports to be," said D., director of international education services for the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers.

"They aren't really a medical school that is recognized anywhere. The embassy in Senegal said the school is in the back of a doctor's office. The U.K., I believe, has asked them to stop listing offices in England," G. said.

And an official with the state's Board of Examiners said the medical school's graduates would likely not be accepted at any three-year medical residency program at a New Jersey hospital, a prerequisite to becoming a full-fledged doctor in this state.

"It raises questions when a school is training students at a place other than where it is licensed to be a school," said I., executive director of the state's Board of Examiners, the licensing body for physicians in the state.

The school is chartered in Senegal, Africa, even though it lists its main teaching location as Luton, England, located 20 minutes outside of London by train, O. said.

New Jersey law requires the state's future doctors to spend their first two years of medical school studying in the location where the school is chartered, O. said.

Orr said other states also have denied hospital residency programs or medical licenses to graduates of the school.

Apparently concerned about the media attention, P. *****, the president of St. Christopher's, said yesterday that he had called St. Peter's and offered to withdraw from the agreement.

"I don't want them to have to spend a third of the day answering questions on our behalf," ***** said. "We are going to back out of the articulation agreement for a specified period of time, not because we have anything to hide. It is because we don't want to put St. Peter's in a negative light."

C., of St. Peter's College, confirmed last night that the agreement, which had been in the works for several months, was dead.

"We are disappointed this happened, but we will continue to make certain that our students have every opportunity to succeed in their chosen medical field," C. said.

Acknowledging unresolved issues with New Jersey's Board of Examiners, ***** said his 1,000-student college, which has a recruitment office in Scotch Plains, is lobbying the state to be exempted from the law requiring students to attend classes at the school's charter location.

"We have a fully functioning school," ***** said. "The rule in New Jersey was written to exclude Internet schools. Orr (the Board of Examiners director) has no function to interpret the rules."

And, in response to G. report that the college is operated out of a back room in a doctor's office, ***** said the representatives from the embassy had checked out the wrong building.

"When we found out, we set up a meeting, we provided them with the proper information and everything was fine after that," ***** said.

St. Peter's College officials said they had visited the college's Luton offices - a rented space in a commercial building - for a week last autumn.

K. covers education. He can be reached at [email protected]

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 02:21 PM
You are violating the TOS, it is a repeat post. That article has been posted many times before, and you could have simply linked to the previous post in this forum on that topic. Reported to Mods

OLDPRO
11-08-2005, 02:23 PM
And that article is full of false infromation and half truths we have debated that before, bringing it up a year later is just not right.

News articles are known to be wrong all the time. A lot of times only 50 to 60% true. And usually biased.

FreeSpirit
11-08-2005, 03:15 PM
Please let's try to stay on topic.

Can anybody verify how many students are currently studying at the Senegal campus and how many doctors have graduated from that campus?

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 03:34 PM
back to the topic of the BBC broadcast, what about the notes in the US ambassador's log about visiting the alleged parent school in 2000 and seeing nothing but empty buildings.
What about that, which nobody ever mentions. I would imagine the investigators would want to see that record and all records pertaining to the operation of this "campus" in 2000Can you provide a link to this log?

Skipper
11-08-2005, 03:34 PM
i have always wondered how many rooms is the campus in sengal consist of?--lol

or really how many doctors graduate from that campus?--lol

skipper

Smythe
11-08-2005, 03:35 PM
Can you provide a link to this log?

yes I have it but it is copyrighted and priviliged internal communications which I will share only with VSA and jpryor.;)

azskeptic
11-08-2005, 03:35 PM
Can you provide a link to this log? Listen to just the show at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/noscript.shtml?/radio/aod/fivelive_aod.shtml?fivelive/flreport_quacks

you can download it onto a cd or into a computer if you want. It is 80 megs

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 03:36 PM
yes I have it but it is copyrighted and priviliged internal communications which I will share only with VSA and jpryor.;) Then you have no proof, that's understandable, given your posting history.

Smythe
11-08-2005, 03:37 PM
Listen to just the show at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/noscript.shtml?/radio/aod/fivelive_aod.shtml?fivelive/flreport_quacks

you can download it onto a cd or into a computer if you want. It is 80 megs

I think he wants to view the actual log ( not a facsimile of the log ;) ) or a link.

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 03:37 PM
Listen to just the show at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/noscript.shtml?/radio/aod/fivelive_aod.shtml?fivelive/flreport_quacks

you can download it onto a cd or into a computer if you want. It is 80 megs So this is second hand information? No one here has seen this supposed "log"?

StChrisCS
11-08-2005, 03:38 PM
I think he wants to view the actual log ( not a facsimile of the log ;) ) or a link.Bingo, got it on the first try.

Smythe
11-08-2005, 03:49 PM
Bingo, got it on the first try.

I'd go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/feedback/ and get in contact with Matthew ---. ( Hint : one who herds sheep )
Ought to be a cheap day return from Luton




EFIT : oops, you won't be reading this post since I see you are banned. Sorry. Please disregard and have a nice day

edited for names.







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