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frankenstone
05-06-2005, 11:31 AM
Hello all,

I have been asked numerous times, which school is better, Xavier or St. James? As you all know I went to St. James for most of my Basic Sciences before transferring to Xavier and I am here to give you all an onest assessment of both of the schools.

First, lets get some basic facts straight. Can you become an MD at St. James and Xavier? The answer is yes. But the real questions that need to be answered that distinguishes Xavier from St. James will be mentioned here.

Since I started attending St. James, my outlook and experience was semi-positive on the way the school was progressing. And indeed, up until about November 2004, St. James was making improvements. I spoke with the President of St. James several times and he told me things that were going to happen here at St. James and some did happen or at least they were started. But as time passed I realized that things were not really getting better. I assumed, like an idiot, that improvements would be coming hot and heavy if enrollment increased at St. James. in addition to ther things, MY wife and I rearranged the ENTIRE library and computer lab to make it more spacious and appealing. We wanted to be part of the solution and help the school improve. But all this effort was to no avail. After 3 large incoming classes , I realized that the school actually took a dive for the worst. The cafeteria hasn't had food since November. No one cleans it anymore. The old hospital building where MD3 is at is absolutely filthy. Why, you ask? How can this happen? What is the reason behind it all?

I can tell you now that without a doubt that it is all about not wanting to spend a penny, poor management, and simply no vision. St. James has one, yes one, maintenance person for THREE different buildings. The main Campus, The old hospital classrooms and faculty offices, and the MD 2 building. This one person has to maintain and upgrade everything that deals with maintenance. He is given almost no money and the President doesn't want to spend anything substantial to do something professional or right. So everything takes a while to get fixed or it looks like crap when it gets taken care of. E.G. painting the main campus building outside walkway. It was painted 3 times very cheaply over the past 3 months instead of dong it right the first time. Yes it is expensive but it REALLY needed to be done. Now it looks like crap and that is how everything is done. So, how the heck is one man supposed to maintain all these things and upgrade facilities? It doesn't get done in a timely manner. Where are the cadaver labs that have been promised and promised? The excuse is... I am not in control, things happen that are out of my hands. If there was someone who was a dedicated manager or exec at the scho lthen things wouldn't be as difficult.

There is no management on-site and no clear authority at St. James. There are the teachers and a Dean with no real power. Policy at St. James changes from month to month. There is no concrete syllabus, attendance policy, or the like at St. James. Why, you ask?? Because no one is given any real authority at the school to permanently develop policy at St. James. The Dean and professors want to do something they can't. Why? They have no authority. The show is being run several thousand miles away in an office that is not in tune with the daily problems of the school. Since I have been here I have seen 4 Deans come and go from here. All left frustrated because they can't do anything that is important to make the school better. Like buy printer cartridges, or have working computers and overhead projectors in class because they don't have anything stocked for mishaps. Teachers have to pay out of pocket to buy these things. Not one professor at St. James has a printer authorized for him or her that is supplied with a printer cartridge. They have to go all over to get something printed. Teachers need supplies to plan effectively. They are not getting it, in my opinion. I know professors who bouht there own printer, scanner, supplies, etc just to prep for class effectively. Many are afraid to use the copier in for of getting gigged for spending too much money. Don't get me wrong, I know this stuff can add up but these are the most basic necessity to teach today. You can always put some accountability system in place. There were 3 professors hired last semester at St. James and all have left. So, the question is, why has there been such a high turnover in faculty at St. James?? Professors are not accomodated with a good work environment to do there job = leads to poorer lectures and low faculty moral. Better pay and treatment elsewhere. #1 reason why the best of the St. James faculty go to Xavier, they are treated with respect and fairness and actually paid on time. So, I want to say this to make the record clear, all the professors and students that go to Xavier since this past August has done so on their own accord. Xavier has not stolen or recruited any of them. All these problems are due to poor management.

When the loans were yanked by KEY bank. You had to find out second hand from other students. There was no formal addressing of the student body of the situation. People had to call Chicago, nobody here in Bonaire really knew what was going on. It was horrible. Why? because there is no one in real command here in Bonaire. There is no Modus Operandi.

If it seems that I am painting a picture of Chaos, then you are close to what the faculty and students feel, especially lately, with the constant policy changing, lack of supplies, and no accountability. This end of semester visit by the president was filled with anger and dissappointment with the president saying if you want something nicer then transfer.


Xavier, is a growing school that has invested money into a nice facility, upcoming lab, and there seems to be a clear cut direction that all the faculty and onsite management are going. YES, there were a few things I didn't care for when Xavier first opened up during those initial 6 months. I asked about them and they said that business is being done differently now. And from what I see, it is. the professors have all told me that they are being treated 10 times beter at Xavier and it shows. They have plans and they are not afraid to talk about them and put money into projects or the classrooms. Simple things like a 24 hour library. Heck, your lucky if the library at St. James is open these days. The white coat ceremony at Xavier is paid and arranged by the school. At Xavier you can't get them to pay for a nice ceremony. They don't want to spend the money.

Even though Xavier is a newer school, they have done more in the year they have been open than St. Jmaes did when I was there.

Ultimately, it is your choice to choose. these are the reasons why I transferred to Xavier above and beyond St. Jmaes not having the loans for me.

Please feel free to ask any questions.

Frankenstone

frankenstone
05-06-2005, 11:47 AM
Oops I forgot tomentionone last reason why I transferred.

St. James makes you go to 96 weeks of clinicals. The requirement is only 72 weeks. Why stay longer than you have to? All othe rschools only make you go 72 weeks.

Also, SJSM Pre-med consists of 3 semesters of Physics for math. No Calc, Algebra, nothing. What kind of Garbage is that. Try explaining why your school teaches 3 semesters of physics.

Frankenstone



.

DocRon
05-06-2005, 04:52 PM
I thought you made it perfectly clear here that this website is about Xavier and if you wanted to talk about SJSM you should take it to the SJSM website.

I've read this post and am surprised at the route you've taken, dogging out the school that helped put your foot in the door to becoming an MD. Now since this is an Xavier website, I can just as easily post the real about many of the negatives about Xavier that you and many prospective students probably don't know. I would call the thread "reasons I would NEVER transfer to Xavier"... But why would I do that? Because as much as I don't care for the way Xavier has gone about STEALING teachers and students (and you know and I know the majority were stolen from SJSM) and the way certain administrators of your school act, I know that whether you are from SJSM , SGU, Xavier etc. we all have one common goal. In addition, as you know, a few of my good friends go to Xavier, but airing out the dirty laundry of their school would only hurt their school but mre improtantly will hurt them. I don't think it should ever be about putting one school down to pump up another (which is exactly what you are doing now). That has been the Xavier way since they got to the island and unfortunately, frankenstone, that seems to be the path you are taking now also.

And the fact that you've been through SJSM and know the good and the bad, but never took one class at Xavier, yet can emphatically stand Xavier is the better school on the island is very surprising to me. Let me let you in on one secret Frank, the students of Xavier have a lot of isssues on the island regarding professors and administration. But that is like every other school in the caribbean. The grass is not always greener on the other side and if you speak to many of the Xavier students prior to your transfer you'll know underneath the nice building's exterior, a lot of shadiness is going on.


"Xavier or SJSM" was the title to your thread, but you made it seem like there was no comparison. It sounded like everything is bad at SJSM and everything is great at Xavier. The name of your thread should have been "Let me tell you why you should not go to St. James, but come to Xavier"

And Frankenstone, of course Xavier is gonna pour a ton of money into the school. They are the new kid on the block, and if they wanna stay around, they HAVE to spend the money... if they are to compete with a school like SJSM who has been around 4 years longer in Bonaire Xavier has to put out the money. Xavier is doing the right thing by making the big investments now. They would definitely not survive, even for the year Xavier has been arond, if they didn't.

Please don't take this as an attack or bash or anything like that. I just had to point out these things. The Frankenstone i met in Bonaire didn't get down like that.

frankenstone
05-06-2005, 05:30 PM
Docron,

I do appreciate that St. James got my foot in the door to being a doctor. But since I was actively involved in trying to improve the school I cannot help but voice my concern about the current state of things at St. James. I wish the President would take more fellowship in the students and school. I know there are too many good professors and students there to continue this way.

I have been hanging around at Xavier now for a while and I don't see the longstanding problems at Xavier that plagues SJSM. I am not upset with the teachers, because St. James has a way of getting some really good ones. But when one of the new professors doesn't get his contract renewed because he is asking for too many supplies, then it's the same problem over and over.

I know you guys will make it to MD status. You guys (and some gals) have a true desire to be doctors. I know who you guys are and I truly wish the best for you guys. I know and acknowledge certain things in the past that have happened between the 2 schools. But recently, it is more of the professors leaving SJ than anything. Also, the sheer volume of real problems that don't change at SJ overshadows the few things that Xavier has pulled in the past.

I would love to see both the schools work together on issues like immigration and labs. I believe Xavier admin believes the same but I don't think that will happen.

I'm sorry man abot the way you feel about my post but I get too many questions about it. And my goal is not to bring dirt out on St. James, you know there are a lot of things I could say, especially about the recent facts I emailed you on. Am I saying you can't become an MD at SJ? No but I, like any other student, would like to believe that SJ will progress into a fine institution. And I am disappointed to say that thing are not moving along.
If the situation changes, I will be the first one to say it because I am for the student, that has always been my goal.


I won't say anything else about St. James out of respect for you guys. Unless it is a major event, or someone asks me a direct question. My word.

Frankenstone

prof
05-06-2005, 08:27 PM
What a surprising thread to read. A few of us have been focusing more on the Dutch Carribean School threads, and the transfer of some students between medical schools has been of interest and intriguing, especially considering the impact of the loan problem on family issues. But I must say I was suprised by this moderator. I was very impressed by how he handled his move, but now he has resorted to the annoying part of ValueMD which is negative descriptions of another school in light of their own school. There are quite a few individuals that had some significant integrity on this website, unfortuately my admiration for this moderator is now in question. I hope as you start taking classes at your current institution that you get back into studying and understanding medicine and its educational processes. Continue what you did before in trying to keep the negativity off these sites. For the most part doing well in medicine depends on the strength of the individual student, their dedication, study habits and ability to learn. Both SJSM and Xavier have an opportunity to create an environment to promote learning. The USMLE scores that recent SJ students got wouldn't have been as good as they were if the basic environment didn't allow them to study. I expect that Xavier students could also do well on Bonaire. Interesting how when a St. Mathews student got a 99 percent on USMLE 1, their threads promoted it significantly, but there was little notice of the Saint James student getting a 99 percent. I think that I only noticed it by going directly to their school website. Hopefully when Xavier get results like that you will boast them significantly on your website to encourage other students about the opportunities in the Dutch Carribean.

frankenstone
05-06-2005, 10:05 PM
Continue what you did before in trying to keep the negativity off these sites. For the most part doing well in medicine depends on the strength of the individual student, their dedication, study habits and ability to learn. Both SJSM and Xavier have an opportunity to create an environment to promote learning. The USMLE scores that recent SJ students got wouldn't have been as good as they were if the basic environment didn't allow them to study. I expect that Xavier students could also do well on Bonaire. Interesting how when a St. Mathews student got a 99 percent on USMLE 1, their threads promoted it significantly, but there was little notice of the Saint James student getting a 99 percent. I think that I only noticed it by going directly to their school website. Hopefully when Xavier get results like that you will boast them significantly on your website to encourage other students about the opportunities in the Dutch Carribean.

I will try to keep the negativity off of the website. If I came across the wrong way then I did not mean to do come across that way. I am a very positive person and believe that any person who wants to be a doctor, can be one. Like I mentioned is the previous post, I am for th student. But I also wanted to share my frustration with St. James and my other reasons why I transferred. If it comes across as negativity then I hope that my reputation as being positive will bring more credence to my words and understand these are my fair, long term observations. My words are ot far fetched or exagerated they are just the facts as I see them. I will rarely say bad things about a school, or any school. But, people wanted to know why I transferred so here it is. This will be one of the few times out of hundreds of posts that I say anything about another school. And you won't see many more in the future.

If I get any USMLE numbers for Xavier, I would be glad to parade the numbers on the website because every good student that comes out of the Caribbean is a positive for the whole Caribbean school community. I was happy to see the good numbers at St. James and I hope that continues, but my feelings remain the same about the situation for the school. I am the first to defend Caribbean schools and students but I am also to first to criticize them.

Talk to you all later. I always enjoy others opinions. 8)

Frankenstone

8)

DocRon
05-07-2005, 02:35 AM
I, like Prof, have lost a little love for you too, Frankenstone. As a moderator for the SJSM, you really were for the students and stayed positive. I had nothing but respect for what you stood for. But now with your transfer to Xavier, you have taken on the same attitude that you have spoken against since you came to the island. There were quite a few frustrating times for all of us at SJSM. I been there done that. But guess what? I did my time, dealt with the lack of luxury of SJSM, dealt with professors leaving to Xavier for more money, withstood the negative attacks and negative rumors and ill-vibes YOUR school has been pushing towards me and many other SJSM student (yourself included), weathered the storm and now I am home preparing to take my USMLE and continue on to Clinicals. I have made it one step closer to becoming a doctor, despite all that.

The fact that you have changed your attitude and are taking part in the very things you and I often spoke against really saddens me :cry: . Like I said before, I could easily go into details about Xavier, it's unethical tactics and state facts that might not sound very attractive at all to prospective students, but what would I accomplish by going there? In the long run it is students like you and friends of mine at Xavier that will suffer the most. SO when you say you are all about the students, you should really mean it, not just say it.

And please don't spread rumors about a teacher not getting a new contract because he asked for supplies, because that is just another rumor that is being spread. Not true at all...

You say that you would love to see both schools work together. The 2 schools living in harmony on Bonaire would be great, but it is posts like yours that will always keep the tension going. And note, (and you should agree with me), in the past it was ALWAYS (100% of the time) Xavier stirring up beef with us at SJSM, and now that you have hopped on the band wagon you've set the pace for future beef between the schools. Again, it saddens me :cry: .

By the tone of your post, it is clear to see your frustrations with the school. Unfortunately, you never mention the not-so-pretty truths about Xavier, so students can really understand that both schools exist on Bonaire, and BOTH have good and bads, instead of painting terrible picture of SJSM and a paradise picture of Xavier. You HAVE made longterm observations of Xavier too, so.......

DocRon
05-07-2005, 02:47 AM
I think you switched your heading around incorrectly....

and Frankestone, PLEASE, keep things real... YOU KNOW AND I KNOW AND STUDENTS OF SJSM KNOW AND STUDENTS FROM XAVIER KNOW that Xavier heavily recruits teachers and students from SJSM. This is a fact that I know because I have seen it done in front of me on more than one occasion. Not to mention, you've mentioned this fact on the forum before when you were pro-sjsm...just thought I'd correct the statement you made earlier about Xavier not recruiting teachers.

jpryor
05-07-2005, 08:03 AM
DocRon, you are truly a gentleman.

I can appreciate Frankenstone's sentiments. We all know how passionate he was about SJSM and I can sympathize with his feelings of disappointment. He, more than most, worked hard to make SJSM a better place and he, more than most, was told of expectations that did not materialize.

I think it's also a mark of his caliber that he acknowledges that his post may be constued differently than he intended. That's the kind of honorable man he is. I haven't lost any esteem for him.

frankenstone
05-07-2005, 11:51 AM
I, like Prof, have lost a little love for you too, Frankenstone.
As a moderator for the SJSM, you really were for the students and stayed positive. I had nothing but respect for what you stood for. But now with your transfer to Xavier, you have taken on the same attitude that you have spoken against since you came to the island. There were quite a few frustrating times for all of us at SJSM. I been there done that. But guess what? I did my time, dealt with the lack of luxury of SJSM, dealt with professors leaving to Xavier for more money, withstood the negative attacks and negative rumors and ill-vibes YOUR school has been pushing towards me and many other SJSM student (yourself included), weathered the storm and now I am home preparing to take my USMLE and continue on to Clinicals. I have made it one step closer to becoming a doctor, despite all that.

The fact that you have changed your attitude and are taking part in the very things you and I often spoke against really saddens me :cry: . Like I said before, I could easily go into details about Xavier, it's unethical tactics and state facts that might not sound very attractive at all to prospective students, but what would I accomplish by going there? In the long run it is students like you and friends of mine at Xavier that will suffer the most. SO when you say you are all about the students, you should really mean it, not just say it.

And please don't spread rumors about a teacher not getting a new contract because he asked for supplies, because that is just another rumor that is being spread. Not true at all...

You say that you would love to see both schools work together. The 2 schools living in harmony on Bonaire would be great, but it is posts like yours that will always keep the tension going. And note, (and you should agree with me), in the past it was ALWAYS (100% of the time) Xavier stirring up beef with us at SJSM, and now that you have hopped on the band wagon you've set the pace for future beef between the schools. Again, it saddens me :cry: .

By the tone of your post, it is clear to see your frustrations with the school. Unfortunately, you never mention the not-so-pretty truths about Xavier, so students can really understand that both schools exist on Bonaire, and BOTH have good and bads, instead of painting terrible picture of SJSM and a paradise picture of Xavier. You HAVE made longterm observations of Xavier too, so.......

DocRon,

Are you ignoring everything I say. We can harp about the recruiting tactics of Xavier in the past all day but let me make it clear that lately the other professors go to Xavier, not being recruited by Xavier. If you want to say I have become what I fought against by ONE post then so be it. I have tried to be civil but you are are past the Basic Science and obviously have the out of sight, out of mind mentality. I wouldn't want to be in the boat 4 years down the road knowing that my school is in the same shape it was in 4 years earlier. That's all. If anything I say isn't true then please correct me.

You say please don't spread rumors about a professor not getting his contract renewed because of the supplies. It's no RUMOR. He said he was asking too much and causing problems. At a faculty meeting just a month or two ago, Dr. S was told by Dr. **** that his opinion no longer mattered since his contract was not being renewed. How do I know this "rumor", the professor himself told me personally. And it was substantiated by another professor. I do not spread rumors, my words are from research or from the source. Don't try to turn the tone of this thread into Frankenstone has become a basher. I made one post. And I correctly changed my heading to why I left.

Without a doubt, if someone asks me whether they should go to Xavier or St. James, I will say Xavier.

If there are crappy thing going on at Xavier I think are wrong I will complain and suggest like I did at St. James but if they persist, I will be the first to post it.

I have not "taken the attitude that I stood against". I made ONE post on how I see things. That is not "changing my attitude". If you think I am making false statements that is fine also.

Why are you taking this personal. I have earned the right to say this and a lot worse for all the efforts that I have put into trying to helping SJ become a better place and I will not be told any less. However I will refrain from bashing the school because there are good things about SJ and I like many students there. The root of the problem at St. James is only one: THE MANAGEMENT.

Suktinder must be enjoying this...........

Frankenstone

DocRon
05-07-2005, 07:05 PM
The reason I say it is a rumor is just because that professo that you are speaking of may have told you the reason was because he was asking for more supplies, but this is not completely true. He is very opinionated, and takes a strong stand on his beliefs. Kinda butted heads with administration. Him wanting more supplies is a very small part of the story, and probably the only part that he could let you in on. But in either case I have nothing but respect for that Prof, and was a great educator. I called that a rumor when I guess I should have said not completely true.

I am not ignoring everything you said. I am trying to point out the things you are not saying. The simple truths that you fail to mention when making a statement like, "if someone asks me Xavier or St. James, i would say Xavier". I do more than simply say, when someone asks me St. James or Xavier, it would still have to be St. James. You've listed all the negatives of SJSM, so since we got that out the way let me list at least the positives of the school that you failed to mention.

1. St. James school of medicine Basic Sciences continues to build. The old hospital building is continuosly being renovated and I believe 2 or 3 more classrooms will be made available for class. When I started at SJSM, that building was just acquired and the plan was in place to start the moving of classes to it. That was 16 months ago. It is now in the process of happening.

2. The clinical rotations program is BOOMING. New sites are being contracted often (some not even on the website), and the clinical experience we can get during rotations is great. The students in rotations have been making a great name for St. James and it is exciting to hear that St. James is making a real name for itself. Also, the amount of students in the clinicals program as of right now is great (I believe it is 90+, which is more than triple the number of 16 months ago) and will only increase with the start of clinicals for the the large class before me and my class. Not to mention those students that are transferring to SJSM clinical program due to the amount of new slots available.

3. People are getting residencies left and right. As you know, the school started with a small number of students and a few clinical transfers. Today, many of these students will be getting residency spots and 1 of the students that is soon to be finishing up his residency, will be applying for licensure (I forget which state he will be applying for). We will anxiously be waiting the good news of the first licensed grad.

4. The management is doing something right to be able to make the strides that SJSM is making in the 5 years of existance. If you look at the bigger picture, you'd see that there is growth all around SJSM, slow in some areas, faster in other areas.

I am sure I am preaching to the choir, because you know all this already, however, you failed to mention any of this in any of your posts. If the faster growth of the facilities is your main argument, then by all means go to a school like Xavier who have poured a lot of money into making a nice campus. Management might seem like a downside to SJSM in your opinion, but knowing what you know about the mangement of Xavier, you really can't make a case for them either.


Let me explain something, I take your post personally because despite what you think, it is NO WAY a case of out-of-sight, out-of-mind on my part. This is the school that provided the opportunity for me to pursue a dream I've had since I was a kid. They've looked out for me and many other students, when we needed them to. So to hear you say these things really is not fair. Frankenstone, you know and I know that it takes time to get anything done on the island, unless you do pour in a ton of money to make it happen. And that is why all of us were so appreciative of your efforts to get the library in the shape that it is today and the nice sign that the school flaunts everyday. Had we waitied on others to do it, it would probably not have gotten done so quickly. I stepped onto the St. James campus on 1/7/04 and left on 4/24/05. I can not tell you the amount of change that has taken place since then. The upgrading of the student lounge (new people will be taking over the food sales), the library, the conducting of the first class in the new building, the new offices in the new building, the renovation and expansion of the MD1 class. I mean the list goes on. Maybe not as fast as you or I would like in that aspect, but it is still slow and steady progress. When I first came to the island, I befriended a few of the MD4 students that were there over a year prior and they were saying how good WE got it with regards to the building. I think their first classes were in the resort or somethig like that. So, sorry that things are not moving as fast as you would like them to move. The fact of the matter remains that the SJSM that I encountered 16 months ago and the SJSM of taday is not the same and is moving in the direction that I along with many others, are happy to see. We are able to speak to other students in rotations doing their thing and it is a good feeling that keeps us optimistic. If the fact of the matter remains that you would like a nicer building, in order for you to become an excellent Physician, then by all means transfer to Xavier and live out your dreams. But please don't try to cut-down SJSM in the process. Your post had a bashing undertone, even if that is not what you intended to do. I will not harp anymore on that post because clearly you have made it known that you did not mean it in that way.

DocRon
05-07-2005, 07:08 PM
your thread titile is still wrong... I think you meant to say " transferred from St. James to Xavier.......

And any thoughts from Suktinder... Are you really enjoying this?

frankenstone
05-08-2005, 05:58 PM
I am with you on the things you say about the rotations. But what about the promises, addressing student and faculty needs, and licensing in the future.

I can live with an old building, but when I didn't have a qualified teacher for Micro this whole semester and I had to self learn, I don't like that. Or you atys doing without professors for part of the semester. Come on, that is an old problem that still hasn't been fixed. This is an old old problem paying students shouldn't have to deal with every semester, they should worry about studying. What kind of consistent education is this. Know the problem and do what you have to to fix it. That's all I ask. This also happened to you guys during your second semester.

Is future licensing not a concern for you. They said in August that they would apply for their first recognition in two years. Heck the first year is almost over and nothing has improved since then. Facilities, labs, consistent syllabi, steady professors, are just a few of the many qualifications necessary to get state approvals. The MD 3 class in the old hospital is a filthy mess. We complained and it still hasn't been maintained. he classroom gets swept but the hall and entrance foyer, has dirt, trash, and dead bugs everywhere. I don't know where the renovations are occuring but all these classes were supposed to be moved in by the summer. Not happening. Cadaver lab was promised with the dates getting moved up till this past March. Still nothing. There is nothing even close to being ready for a cadaver lab. 3 or 4 years down the road when licensing might be an issue, will St. james have any approvals? That is my concern. If he can't get a hold of these smaller problems how the heck is he gonna get a state approval. Licensing is getting more and more strict and, in everybody's interest, all school's should be moving toward approval.

I just want to see St. James moving forward to get a site visit and I am tired of seeing the two steps forward, one step back way of doing things. It doesn't hurt the president, it hurts all of us and I don't want to see it happen that way. **** has the money to put in the school now with the enrollment. What's the hold up?

About the administration, Ron. Despite what goes on between the schools, the fact still remains that they are putting money into the schools and they are doing things that St. James is not. For the students, that is great. That is it. Has nothing to do with anything else. The questions for every student should be:

What is the admin doing to improve the image for the school in respects to licensure?

Does the admin do significant things to improve the learning environment for the students to pass the boards?

Is there a solid investment at this school? Past experience is an indicator of future performance.

All I ever hear from the President, is I don't want to spend the money. There are many things at St. James that would improve it greatly for minimal amounts of money.

Fact of the matter, Xavier is doing what they have to for the improvement of there school in all these areas. That's it. No if, ands, or buts about it. People don't listen to anyone anymore about St. James because thing rarely come about or on time.

All in all, Licensure and quality of education is what I am concerned about the most. And SJ is not doing the things they need to do to get any state approvals in the next few years. Quality of education is not bad but not getting any better. Sure won't impress anyone coming on site visits.

I would like to see things change there and I hope for the students they do. This going forward and back and forward has got to stop. Xavier is going forward and forward and forward. I and any student feels that they are there to help you succeed.

I still love you Docron..

Frankenstone :cry: :wink:

prof
05-08-2005, 06:18 PM
This moderator is still continuing in the same modality. I noticed on another site he was suggested to be the number one moderator. I was impressed by him as well. But there is continued propoganda. To an educated person, it seems to me that for someone who hasn't even really started studying much at this school, that there must be enrollment issues at his school. And that the administration sees the ValueMD site as important for recruitment. I don't know a medical school anywhere that doesn't move two steps forward and one step back. With the budget crises we had a few years ago in the states, most state medical schools are going 2 steps back one step forward, if we were lucky. And with the flat budget at NIH these coming years, research medical schools that have at least a third of their budget from NIH dollars are going to suffer more. Be grateful you are at a school that has enrollment growth, and new facilities in sight. Many US medical schools are not replacing basic science faculty once they retire. And you are lucky to get 50 percent of your salary tenurable, with the rest you have to apply for grants and contracts from extramural sources. As long as SJSM has low tuition it will not grow as fast as you want. That is one reason Spartan has not grown so much over the years. Dear moderator get back on track and enjoy your education. Don't make Bonaire seem like Philadelphia with numerous medical schools in the same city battling out between each other.

frankenstone
05-08-2005, 06:38 PM
But there is continued propoganda. To an educated person, it seems to me that for someone who hasn't even really started studying much at this school, that there must be enrollment issues at his school. And that the administration sees the ValueMD site as important for recruitment. I don't know a medical school anywhere that doesn't move two steps forward and one step back.

I'm not continuing the "modality", I am responding to comments and clarifying facts. So whatever you feel I am telling my opinion. PRof, unless you experience both schools, you shouldn't comment or make parallels.

There are many schools that move forward and up, schools like St. Matthews, MUA and others are doing well and improving steadily and they don't have high tuitions - yet. SJ is getting 35+ students a semester now for several semesters. Do the math and tell me there is no money.

Prof, don't preach to me about educated people and what you see. I well know the shortcommings of Xavier. My experience is based on recent exposure at both schools. Why are you commenting on schools you haven't visited or experienced.

I have been on ValueMD long enough to know that my reputation as a moderator will not be in question with comments by you that allude to me as being someone who works for the school admin. This site was not put up at the request of Xavier. It was put up by DOC. So you shouldn't be so presumptuous.

Both schools are on the island. You can become an MD at both. But, my observations show that Xavier is doing more because of better management and more involvement, also, there are no loans at SJ for U.S. students. If you see it another way then I can't help that.

This is my last post on this thread.

Frankenstone

DocRon
05-08-2005, 08:40 PM
Frankenstone, I said I lost a little love for you, but you know I have much love for you so we are definitely still good :D ...

Just remember that the professor situation we faced started with Xavier stealing our professor when I was in MD 2. That prof was offered more money to teach at Xavier and he tried to be slick by trying to teach at both schools. Also, the reason we didn't have a prof for the first few weeks is because Xavier paid our Path prof more money, and witout any notice he left SJSM. without any notice. Same thing with our Epidemiology prof. Shows a lack of class on their part, but again, those profs and Xavier were thinking about themselves and didn't care what happened to the students of SJSM. Your Micro situation was a problem, but unfortunately students suffered from the immigration problem because 2 profs (one micro and one path) were sent back home becaue they didn't have all the new documentation the island requires when they got to the Bonaire airport. These are sad situations, but these are problems that we have to face as they come.


What is the admin doing to improve the image for the school in respects to licensure?

With regards to licensing; clinical sites and affiliations are a very important part of future licensing. You know and I know that is a big strength that St. James has and it is taking great strides in that aspect. That is undeniable. I KNOW that Xavier WILL expand their clinicals program with time also.

Does the admin do significant things to improve the learning environment for the students to pass the boards?

Many of the more established caribbean med schools have been started in barns and old shacks. The students were the ones that made the school what they are today. As always stated, 90% of the work of med school is on the student. Would I have liked the new SJSM building to have been ready when I was studying in Bonaire? Yes, for sure!!! Would that have helped me do better in classes and in the USMLE step 1? Of course not. If that was the case no student at Ross or SGU or AUC would ever fail the USMLE, because they have the greatest facilities in the caribbean.


Is there a solid investment at this school? Past experience is an indicator of future performance.

Again, it is very obvious that there is excellent growth with regards to the number of students entering the Basic Sciences as well as those entering Clincals Program. The newly acquired building in Bonaire has always been a slow project. We all know that. It took time for the new offices and first class to be moved in there. But it was done. Two or three more classrooms are being prepared for use. When will the entire project be completed and every class be held in the building? Only time will tell, but again, it remains slow and steady progress. Unfortunately, this project isn't moving as fast as other aspects of SJSM, but it IS still moving. Once this project is complete, SJSM will be one step closer to being prepared for site visits by accrediting bodies.

This back and forth stops today for me as well...

And I do respect the fact, Frankenstone, that you were very professional and respectful throughout this entire discussion... Those are very important characteristics that will help make you a great doctor... Good luck to you Frankenstone and all the students of Xavier. I wish you all the best that life has to offer...

Again, we are still good :D ....

prof
05-08-2005, 09:38 PM
You are correct it is difficult to truly ascertain the status of schools without visiting them. Being on ValueMD allows us to get some glimmer of what makes the schools tick, albeit this can be slanted by the limited number of people that get on this site. That is why I have looked to the moderators. Definately an interesting thread, thanks for letting me be part of it. I wish you and DocRon the best for you future studies.

dt
05-09-2005, 02:29 AM
You probably want to change the title again. Try "from St. James to Xavier"? maybe?

Stewie
05-09-2005, 09:37 AM
Looks like the "party" is on the Xavier forum now!!!

AUCMD2006
05-09-2005, 12:23 PM
"Many of the more established caribbean med schools have been started in barns and old shacks"

this argument holds no value. harvard, yale, oxford, cambridge all started as in a single room with no grants, reputation, etc but that is not were they are now. the big carib schools may have started in shacks but that is not the case now....all these schools have a niche they fill but why limit yourself if you don't have to?

and as far as 90% of work being on the student that is true and may be the case for exams, it is the logistic support that the big schools have that we pay so much more for. its nice to have a full time graduation certification dept, its nice to have a full time licensure attorney a phone call away......

each school has its purpose and in time sj and xavier will find their way but don't belittle the importance of the support these "diploma mills" as frank calls them, offer their students. its up to me to pass the exams, but i sleep better at night knowing that there is a whole office in miami dedicxated to getting me licensed....albeit slow from what i hear...hehe

lswiltshire
05-13-2005, 01:12 PM
" and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

The greatest teacher ever gave us these words inJohn 8:32.

Frankinstone is now the worst man on earth just because he is speaking the truth.

THE TRUTH IS PAINFULL BECAUSE IT HURTS

If any one knows the truth about SJMS it is Frankinstone. Why is is he being villified.

Why is there such a high staff turnover at SJMS?

Why is there substandard conditions?

Why was a Dean chosen recently without checking his background?

Does this not indicate that the school does not care about its students.

Frankie ma boy KEEP TELLING THE TRUTH.

There is more in the mortar than the pestle with respect to SJMS and that is being dealt with at higher levels. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth .......or gums. Just hold on.


FRANKIE ITS IMPORTANT TO TELL THE TRUTH

DONT LET OTHER INNOCENT FOLK HAVE TO SUFFER AS YOU AND OTHERS HAVE SUFFERED AT SJMS



Those who have treansferred have done the right thing.

sukhtinder
05-17-2005, 01:59 PM
i love it. this site is now the most valueable real-estate on valueMD. it has suprassed the st james forum, despite the interesting 'dean is gone' thread. reading this is the highlight of my day next to the anticipation of star wars ep3.

frank- u still kick-**** in my book regardless of what anyone else may say

docron/prof- pllllease keep posting, make your posts nice and juicy lol

sbturner- where are you man? come back!!!!

jpryor
05-17-2005, 02:57 PM
[quote="sukhtinder"]i love it. this site is now the most valueable real-estate on valueMD.quote]

Where's your loyalty, suk? If you're going to prostitute yourself like this with others schools we're going to have to rethink naming you dean.

DocRon
05-18-2005, 01:12 AM
docron/prof- pllllease keep posting, make your posts nice and juicy lol



Sorry to disappoint you sukhtinder... I'm in semi-retirement from valuemd... taking USMLE in 3 weeks and need to stay focused...

But I see that iswiltshire is back on the scene... things should stay not-so-nice, but juicy with his "interesting" comments.... Enjoy the rest of the show Sukhtinder.....

P.S. how's it going, J?

jpryor
05-18-2005, 04:39 AM
P.S. how's it going, J?

Hiya Ron,

Classes start today. Life is good :)

sukhtinder
05-19-2005, 10:07 AM
[quote=sukhtinder]i love it. this site is now the most valueable real-estate on valueMD.quote]

Where's your loyalty, suk? If you're going to prostitute yourself like this with others schools we're going to have to rethink naming you dean.

my 1st love will always be st james. i will lust for xavier however...

frankenstone
05-27-2005, 12:16 PM
i love it. this site is now the most valueable real-estate on valueMD. it has suprassed the st james forum, despite the interesting 'dean is gone' thread. reading this is the highlight of my day next to the anticipation of star wars ep3.

frank- u still kick-**** in my book regardless of what anyone else may say

docron/prof- pllllease keep posting, make your posts nice and juicy lol

sbturner- where are you man? come back!!!!

Suktinder,

How was the Star Wars 3 episode ?

Frankenstone

sbturner
05-27-2005, 02:54 PM
Hi. I'm still here my good friends! I am just working on getting into AUC or Ross. Best wishes!

smasha
11-13-2005, 01:35 PM
I believe that Saint James School of Medicine is going to be one of the top Caribean schools in the next 5 years. It has been established for 5 + years now and its clinical rotations are excellent and it's building more contracts yearly. I've been in Chicago for past 2 years and I havent heard of Xavier school students rotating at any of the places in Chicago. It takes time to establish contracts with these hospitals. So I advise future prospects to go to schools that have been established for a while. They have lists of schools that are accepted for licensing in various states and you need to see if your school is there before you apply there. Just a warning and good luck to you all.

OLDPRO
11-13-2005, 01:49 PM
I believe that Saint James School of Medicine is going to be one of the top Caribean schools in the next 5 years. It has been established for 5 + years now and its clinical rotations are excellent and it's building more contracts yearly. I've been in Chicago for past 2 years and I havent heard of Xavier school students rotating at any of the places in Chicago. It takes time to establish contracts with these hospitals. So I advise future prospects to go to schools that have been established for a while. They have lists of schools that are accepted for licensing in various states and you need to see if your school is there before you apply there. Just a warning and good luck to you all.
Sorry but why post this here and resurect an old thread? This is the kinda-in -your-face I hate to see here on VMD! :confused::rolleyes:

Hey the war is over this school is in Aruba now let it go!!!!

smasha
11-13-2005, 02:13 PM
Sorry but why post this here and resurect an old thread? This is the kinda-in -your-face I hate to see here on VMD! :confused::rolleyes:

Hey the war is over this school is in Aruba now let it go!!!!

Hey sorry about that I didnt know. Sorry about the confusion. Good luck to the students in Aruba then!

MDseeker
04-01-2006, 10:59 PM
How well does Xavier medical school or caribbean medical schools prepare you for the USMLE's....

OLDPRO
04-02-2006, 09:21 AM
How well does Xavier medical school or caribbean medical schools prepare you for the USMLE's.... Easy.... they teach core courses like in the US then it's up to you to study and learn And pass the USLME.

IMG X-Files
04-13-2006, 06:12 PM
Both are considered "sub standards" medical schools.....I do not recommend anyone attending unstable schools such as Xavier or St. James....Simple lesson in history...look what happened to St. Chris...!! owned and operated by same corp running Xavier.......

Stick to reputable medical school with long track history of at least 10 years....that will save you $$$ and headaches in the long run !!

Best wishes,

maximillian genossa
04-14-2006, 09:01 PM
"look what happened to St. Chris...!! owned and operated by same corp running Xavier......."

If that is true, why they did not give asylum to St. Chris students? It does not make sense.






Both are considered "sub standards" medical schools.....I do not recommend anyone attending unstable schools such as Xavier or St. James....Simple lesson in history...look what happened to St. Chris...!! owned and operated by same corp running Xavier.......

Stick to reputable medical school with long track history of at least 10 years....that will save you $$$ and headaches in the long run !!

Best wishes,

rainz
06-04-2006, 09:46 PM
This post is not about st. christophers... check their forum out....plus that guy got a WARNING!!! SEE THE EXCLAMATION????

i personally wodnt recommend transferring to Xavier cuz its new. I know they got their clinicals.... but basic sciences? i'm not sure of..

You should stick to a school that has been around for awhile.

seme
06-05-2006, 09:51 AM
am a prospetive 2day seeking transfer to a carribean medical school,amd i was thinking about xavier pls can any one advise me on what school he or she thinks is the best and why?.thanks all.

jameslynton
06-05-2006, 10:27 AM
The Quick scoop on Schools in the islands,
Top schools Ross, AUC, SGU - need MCAT - all have tons of grads in 50 states
Next tier - Saba St Mats - MCAT helpful Saba has Ca approval
Next tier - MUA - Nevis, St James, Spartan, etc - maturing start up schools have grads in residency - post Step 1 pass rate
Start up schools - AUA, Xavier, etc - maybe grads mayb step one pass rate - not posted

First, do they have grads that have completed the program start to finish?
Next do they list where grads match?
Do they post a step 1 pass rate.
Research and judge from there
Take this with a grain of salt - PM students and ask questions BTW - I am not in Xavier

AUCMD2006
06-05-2006, 05:40 PM
The Quick scoop on Schools in the islands,
Top schools Ross, AUC, SGU - need MCAT - all have tons of grads in 50 states
Next tier - Saba St Mats - MCAT helpful Saba has Ca approval
Next tier - MUA - Nevis, St James, Spartan, etc - maturing start up schools have grads in residency - post Step 1 pass rate
Start up schools - AUA, Xavier, etc - maybe grads mayb step one pass rate - not posted

First, do they have grads that have completed the program start to finish?
Next do they list where grads match?
Do they post a step 1 pass rate.
Research and judge from there
Take this with a grain of salt - PM students and ask questions BTW - I am not in Xavier


schools with most outside verifications such as federal loans, new york, cali, florida state approvals:

AUC, Ross (also has texas), SGU, UAG

has all the above except federal loans

Saba

Has new york approval

MUA Nevis

Has been around a LONG time, so its probably stable long term, but is stagnant in growth development etc.

Spartan

Start up schools without a single outside approval or verification meaning you shoud research extensively on all aspects of the school:

all the rest, aua, st james, xavier, mua-belize, st theresa, st martinus, st chris, oceania, iuhs, uhsa and so on

*remember having residents doesn't mean unrestriced licences in the states they are in since they only have training permits....

jameslynton
06-06-2006, 12:43 AM
Thanks Rrod for pulling out my lame post on the schools. I had to spit that out in just a couple of minutes at work today. Really thanks for the corrections. Once again you came to aid.

sukhtinder
06-06-2006, 08:41 PM
no wayyyy

here is my list from best to worst:

1. kigezi
2. all saints
3. st. theresa's
4. iuhs
5. iau
6. saba
7. auc
8. ross
9. sgu







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