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Lmichale
04-11-2005, 08:17 PM
I am a current student, are there any others out there?
I will be checking in to state requiements again, appears the state changed since I enrolled??
What is the test bank, someone said they pull the test from the test bank? the one under the school that you can study for USMLE?
anyone know? I am already an NP so I know alittle about medical stuff.
I can not dream of sitting in classes again for another 2-4 yrs. when I can read a book or listen to audio.

Picard
04-12-2005, 09:55 AM
There are no shortcuts in obtaining a medical degree -- no legitamate ones anyways. If you were granted ANY amout of "advanced credit" for your NP experiences/coursework and/or are doing the distant learning/internet stuff -- your degree is not licensible in the US. Period. And if the school "templates" your transcript to try to make it look like you did it the old fashion way -- sitting in class for 2 years, clinical rotation for 2 years -- you run the risk of fraudulent documents which will bar you from licensure just about forever, you may even lose your NP license because of it...

P

lswiltshire
04-13-2005, 08:36 AM
A WORD TO THE WISE should be enough! Or is it?

Why is it that prospective IUHS & UHSA students can not understand that you cant learn Medicine solely by online activities?

Why is it that you folk want one day to talk the talk without walking the walk.

Why is it that the FSMB does not come out clearly and make it clear that online chatroom programs as done by IUHS & UHSA is just not acceptable?


WHY? WHY? OH WHY?

SSIUHS
04-15-2005, 11:10 AM
ards are very suspicious of IUHS credits becasue they know that IUHS will make it look like u have been in the class while u have studied ELP and they dont know what to belive anymore. Get out while u can

iuhsex
04-25-2005, 10:21 PM
lets pose a question? If a school made the statement that they were not able to get loans for 6 years to the students at their conference, it would be troubling to think where the books are. T shirts anyone for the thought that your money that you gave to the school is not going to your education. Maybe something is strange in Denmark/st kitts, or Delray Beach. 6-7 years back is the history of the books before the financial institutions will certify an organization.

We are the ones that have been hurt and are looking into the ways to makes these strange ways right and find a way of correcting the wrongs.

Any takers out there on the whole story

Ming
05-13-2005, 10:45 PM
Why is indeed a good question........ECFMG is a rubber stamp organization that simply stamps according to the WHO listing..........WHO is an organization that most people don't understand their criteria............any medical school meets a WHO listing as long as they are meeting their OWN COUNTRY educational charter criteria.........as you might expect, St. Kitts is requiring a whole lot........therefore, IUHS meets the WHO listing criteria............

Currently more than 1/2 of the states WILL NOT licence internet pre-clinical sciences........the other half have stated they are moving in that direction.........I was considering taking the offer of internet preclinical and did my homework and called every single state directly...............I chose not to enter such a program........

There will always be individuals looking for a short route to the MD licence..............one wonders if they would attend a physician for themselves who took short cuts to this degree..............not likely, but they are hoping others would not be as discriminating............

Ming
05-13-2005, 10:47 PM
sorry.........that was a "typo".........I meant to say St. Kitts is NOT REQUIRING A WHOLE LOT............therefore, IUHS meets the criteria....

Vasquez
07-23-2005, 01:13 PM
Get out of IUHS while you can. They will not have student loans for another 6 years due to so many shady mistakes that they have made in their business of the last few years. The Island location is run by an old island woman without any academic background but has political connections on the island to continue running. The school has not paid their charter in St Kitts for the last year so is not functioning within the limits of St Kitts parameters. They are moving more and more of their business to Canada to try to become more respectable but they are still failing. Fewer and fewer students go to this school thank goodness so fewer and fewer will waste their time with them. They have had their website down for 2 months, another registrar has again left the scene, and they have financial people trying to do registrar duties. Get out while you can and salvage your medical studies before you lose more time. Verification of credentials will be very very difficult when you reach that point.

lswiltshire
07-25-2005, 08:30 AM
Get out of IUHS while you can is certainly VERY GOOD ADVICE OR DONT GO THERE .
That IUHS have committed "so many shady mistakes .........in their business of the last few years" is more than an understatement.

It is true that " the Island location is run by an island woman without any academic background but has political connections on the island" is also very factual.

This lady was introduced to me as one "with good connections" to the ruling party.

She has been known to tell bone fide doctors what they can teach and what they cant. Once a Dr told the students that often when tetracycline is given to women it can kill their vaginal flora and she heard of it she castigated the doctor and told hinm he had no right to say that.

She also castigated the same Dr for teaching that one was to be carefull not to give certain drugs to male because it would cause impotence.

"Get out while you can and salvage your medical studies before you lose more time. Verification of credentials will be very very difficult when you reach that point." IS VERY VERY GOOD ADVICE

Georgie Porgie and others were telling you NOT TO GO TO IUHS since 2002 August. But did folk listen? Nooooooooooooo

They wanted to do short cut medical studies. OH MI AM ! as the Kittians say

Vasquez
07-25-2005, 06:10 PM
Perhaps a better questions about the money issues and no financial aid for another 6 years would be a good questions to pose to RJS or to GC. The school had a large sum of money disappear from the cash register overnight, and with all the shuffling to protect their back they were never made to account for its loss. After all who is going to hold them accountable?? The government of St Kitts...unlikely. Anyhow the money, a very large sum disappeared into pockets and again who suffers for that the students. No financial aid for another 6 years. For those students still there, please please get out. This school is failing and you will lose all of your investment. GET OUT.

Ming
09-06-2005, 04:33 AM
Perhaps a better questions about the money issues and no financial aid for another 6 years would be a good questions to pose to RJS or to GC. The school had a large sum of money disappear from the cash register overnight, and with all the shuffling to protect their back they were never made to account for its loss. After all who is going to hold them accountable?? The government of St Kitts...unlikely. Anyhow the money, a very large sum disappeared into pockets and again who suffers for that the students. No financial aid for another 6 years. For those students still there, please please get out. This school is failing and you will lose all of your investment. GET OUT.

I'm impressed! Not many people approach the issue you mention above. Since it appears it was an internal problem that will never be solved, it is probably more important to focus on the future stability of IUHS. The student numbers continue to decline due to transfers and understandable recruiting problems. You mention posing the question to RJS and GC. Mr. GC would not have the answer to your question as it was well before his time. Mr. GC is not an accountant but a bookkeeper. Currently, Mr. GC is using the title of Assistant Registrar since it appears the last Registrar was fired. Interesting they should fire the only educationally credible individual in the office.

As mentioned above, the bookkeeper is also working as the Assistant Registrar, assistant to whom? His wife, a real estate agent, without any training to work in a medical school, is now the Admissions Office and making decisions about which students should be accepted for admission. As the school no longer accepts BSc grads and only accepts PAs and NFPs, I wonder why the school is paying her to review applications.

The new student numbers will not allow this institution to survive. The new student lists are about 5 students for each start date.

One wonders if the investors are aware of the real numbers of students, and the staff working for the school that have no academic background or experience in a medical school. I doubt the real investors know how their money is being handled.

No medical school can survive on these numbers, or these inexperienced staff, that is, unless the investors are willing to continue emptying their own pockets into the abyss.

diogenes
09-06-2005, 07:21 AM
....The new student numbers will not allow this institution to survive. The new student lists are about 5 students for each start date.......
No medical school can survive on these numbers, or these inexperienced staff, that is, unless the investors are willing to continue emptying their own pockets into the abyss.
I wish! But I do wonder if they are banking heavily on their relationship with UEIMS and the Bahrain school. Back in the winter they seemed to have quite a large number of students from India, perhaps more than the rest put together. It's very easy money for IUHS: particularly if these affiliates do actually provide decent support and keep the students happy.

Carmen
09-06-2005, 06:14 PM
Apparently the India and Du**** contingents aren't paying IUHS. This is more than likely because they have received little or no education from IUHS.

The school needs these countries because they must have a certain number of foreign grads to be considered a international medical school. This is because most of the students are American.

I have a feeling that these students are suffering from lack of education just like the other IUHS students.

Ming
09-06-2005, 07:48 PM
Apparently the India and Du**** contingents aren't paying IUHS. This is more than likely because they have received little or no education from IUHS.

The school needs these countries because they must have a certain number of foreign grads to be considered a international medical school. This is because most of the students are American.

I have a feeling that these students are suffering from lack of education just like the other IUHS students.

Interesting. Apparently Du*** is a reasonable teaching institution. It would be understandable given the money the country has to put into the investment without relying on IUHS. However, it is also well known that those students believe a medical education from IUHS will assist their objective of relocating to the USA. It will not, however, I doubt the IUHS administration has told them that fact. The Indian contingent is an absolute disaster. Notwithstanding, if those franchise operations don't pay up, IUHS will simply cut off the internet connections. No exams, no degree.

All off-shore schools need a majority of foreign students to qualify for many of the government loans. This item alone will never move IUHS into the position of qualifying for US government loans as they have too much baggage to defend. A little creative accounting might help, but eventually it all catches up.

diogenes
09-07-2005, 10:42 AM
I was delighted to read Carmen and Ming's posts. I was quite afraid that the Asian schools might be their salvation: evidently not!:D
Does anyone know if they still have any former LCM students with them? They don't deserve to, but, as someone else said recently on this forum, students get to a point where they have invested so much time and money and don't have suitable alternatives.

Sashriqua
10-17-2005, 05:40 AM
Hello,
I am a second year student at UEIMS, Dubai. Can somebody please give me information as to what is really going on at IUHS. Most of the students here in Dubai have the impression that having an IUHS degree will make it easier for relocating to the US. Is that not true? IUHS has been reaccredited for the next 5 years with WHO...doesn't that mean anything? Our administration is definitely not telling us the truth..they just saying that most of these notices are from people who are taking revenge of some sort on IUHS. I don't know why I never looked into IUHS earlier, but now I am extremely weary about my future. Please can somebody give me any information about this place. Thank you!

diogenes
10-17-2005, 07:39 AM
Hello,
I am a second year student at UEIMS, Dubai. Can somebody please give me information as to what is really going on at IUHS. Most of the students here in Dubai have the impression that having an IUHS degree will make it easier for relocating to the US. Is that not true? IUHS has been reaccredited for the next 5 years with WHO...doesn't that mean anything? Our administration is definitely not telling us the truth..they just saying that most of these notices are from people who are taking revenge of some sort on IUHS. I don't know why I never looked into IUHS earlier, but now I am extremely weary about my future. Please can somebody give me any information about this place. Thank you! Recently some of the most reliable information and comment has probably come from Carmen and Ming:- search for all their posts.
Regarding licensure in the U.S. you will see a lot of post here, some of it conflicting. If you want to practise there I believe you must make the proper inquiries yourself through the appropriate state licensing boards. Hopefully some american members can post useful addresses/tel.no's. If you don't, you will be forever stuck between what your school tells you and what you read here: in a state of constant anxiety and uncertainty.Personally I believe that there are huge difficulties associated with using an IUHS degree. However others have stated that for some U.S. states it will be o.k. Again, get it from the horse's mouth not an internet forum.
Schools like IUHS often use their listing on WHO to mislead students. A listing simply verifies that it has been certified as a bona fide med. school by the territorial government in which it is based. This does not oblige every national/state licensing authority to accept the degree without restriction: or at all! Also, be sure to check on the status of an IUHS degree obtained through Dubai rather than on-campus in St. Kitts.
As for the motives and reliability of the posts on the forum, they probably vary. Some have always struck me as unreliable gibberish; but there are enough well thought out, calmly worded posts to make you take the criticisms of IUHS very seriously.
What are your feelings about the tuition you are receiving?
Also, what has Dubai said about the degree status vis-a-vis the GMC in the U.K.?

azskeptic
10-17-2005, 10:34 AM
Take a look at their list of schools

http://www.ueims.com/groupprofile.htm

coupled with www.iuhs.edu (http://www.iuhs.edu)

one has to wonder if the students can license even in St. Kitts. Will India allow the students to license in India?

azskeptic
10-17-2005, 10:56 AM
Wasn't there a court action in India that said that the Empire schools weren't eligible to produce doctors that could license in India? My memory was that there is a law in India that the GMC requires you have a hospital as part of your medical school. Has anyone talked to the GMC about the Dubai graduates,etc. ability to license?

azskeptic
10-17-2005, 11:16 AM
Wasn't there a court action in India that said that the Empire schools weren't eligible to produce doctors that could license in India? My memory was that there is a law in India that the GMC requires you have a hospital as part of your medical school. Has anyone talked to the GMC about the Dubai graduates,etc. ability to license?

Here is the info I saw a couple of years gao

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=85602

maximillian genossa
10-17-2005, 07:31 PM
Hello,
I am a second year student at UEIMS, Dubai. Can somebody please give me information as to what is really going on at IUHS. Most of the students here in Dubai have the impression that having an IUHS degree will make it easier for relocating to the US. Is that not true? IUHS has been reaccredited for the next 5 years with WHO...doesn't that mean anything? Our administration is definitely not telling us the truth..they just saying that most of these notices are from people who are taking revenge of some sort on IUHS. I don't know why I never looked into IUHS earlier, but now I am extremely weary about my future. Please can somebody give me any information about this place. Thank you!

To answer your questions...

Most of the students here in Dubai have the impression that having an IUHS degree will make it easier for relocating to the US. Is that not true?

DEFINITELY NOT TRUE. Whoever told you that must be on a mushroom trip. A diploma from IUHS means Jack to many (if not most) USA jurisdictions.

IUHS has been reaccredited for the next 5 years with WHO...doesn't that mean anything?

NO, it means that the school has been certified to exist by the local goverment and have completed some much required paperwork through the authorities. But WHO IS NOT AN ACREDITING AGENCY.

Our administration is definitely not telling us the truth....

You got that one right!

these notices are from people who are taking revenge of some sort on IUHS.

MAYBE. Some are, some are not. But that always happens. Ive seen some good smack from ROSS students, and that is one of the most legit schools in the Caribbean, so go figure.

now I am extremely weary about my future....

You should be, you are in a school that is literally under the microscope.

can somebody give me any information about this place.

My recommendation, go visit the St. Kitts Campus by yourself, talk to the few students you will find there and judge by yourself. If you don't like the school, at least you got to visit a very beautiful island.

Cheers,

MAX

Quote of the day...IT ain't easy being myself, it's a full time job with no benefits!

anatomy_guy
10-22-2005, 12:47 PM
Wasn't there a court action in India that said that the Empire schools weren't eligible to produce doctors that could license in India? My memory was that there is a law in India that the GMC requires you have a hospital as part of your medical school. Has anyone talked to the GMC about the Dubai graduates,etc. ability to license?

Take a look at the website as mentioned above: http://www.ueims.com/groupprofile.htm
On the website it states that the GMC of India considers UEIMS graduates to be foreign medical graduates in India. This being the case would even further bolster the case that IUHS has very little standing except in St. Kitts and Nevis. Furthermore, graduates of IUHS would be hard pressed to qualify their degree to the state medical boards. I have talked to the Michigan and California boards directly and they chuckled when I mentioned IUHS. The boards said the internet program is absolutely forbidden for licensure.
Cheers, A_G

MDPhD
10-22-2005, 06:53 PM
the empire

Take a look at their list of schools

http://www.ueims.com/groupprofile.htm

coupled with www.iuhs.edu (http://www.iuhs.edu/)

one has to wonder if the students can license even in St. Kitts. Will India allow the students to license in India?

It certainly appears that the corporation is minting money through all the programs they have but shame that the quality of education is soooo poor and the administration is not doing anything about it. The chairman/managing director is a well know attorney in the State of Kerala in India.
Check this out:
http://skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/t-127857.html

iuhsms4
11-22-2005, 01:36 PM
IGood luck to everybody who aspires to become a doc!

Carmen
11-23-2005, 01:11 AM
Steve,

I understand what your situation is and I am glad IUHS is helping you. I am worried what will happen to you when you want to license.

While I agree that you can do your "book learning" on-line - during the pre-clinical in American and Canadian universities, the students also engage in clinical work, learn research skill and many exposures to patient care. These students are constantly monitored and if they are deficient in an area, it is hopefully corrected. You cannot compare 2 years of internet learning to attending a "real" medical school.

I have a feeling that if you have spent 4 years at IUHS, you are desperate to get a degree because of the time and energy already spent. I'm sure you have been disenchanted with IUHS in the last 4 years. Since this university will be on your diploma, you may now feel the need to defend it. If you don't do rotations in green-book hospitals, you will have lots of problems with licensure. Passing the USMLE step 1 exam is one small step.

I hope things will work out for you, but be prepared, most states now know about the internet school that doesn't state that in its transcripts.

Good luck

AUCMD2006
11-23-2005, 01:52 AM
you can try and validate your reasoning anyway you want and try and compare student populations from every school and i'm not gonna go down your list. whatever grades you have to get in, what grades you get while you are in, what you make on the usmle are meaningless because you attended an online program. its great for the chiros, pods etc that just wanna throw MD on their cards so they can give pts the illusion of extra training but please show any graduate of any online program with a valid license anywhere so wether you wanted to waste time in a 4 year program or not you just wasted whatever amount of weeks it took to get the iuhs online MD because you are probably not licensable.

don;t get me wrong, i think computer based learning is great and should be a major part of schooling and perhaps even take over comepletely in some classes. but it will never replace gross anatomy, micro lab, and clinical skills labs. frankly i don't know if the current set up at iuhs of finding your own mentor is a good set up just from a quality assurance perspective, how do they measure the quality of your mentoring? i don't know enough about the program to comment on it other than the fact that they haven't been able to produce a single resident or licensed doctor from the online program. so the question as to whom is actually wasting their time is open to debate. 4 years of hardship and eating 99c cheeseburgers with a 99% chance at getting a residency, or 4 confortable years home with an online degree that has thus far been worthless?

azskeptic
11-23-2005, 06:07 AM
you can try and validate your reasoning anyway you want and try and compare student populations from every school and i'm not gonna go down your list. whatever grades you have to get in, what grades you get while you are in, what you make on the usmle are meaningless because you attended an online program. its great for the chiros, pods etc that just wanna throw MD on their cards so they can give pts the illusion of extra training but please show any graduate of any online program with a valid license anywhere so wether you wanted to waste time in a 4 year program or not you just wasted whatever amount of weeks it took to get the iuhs online MD because you are probably not licensable.

don;t get me wrong, i think computer based learning is great and should be a major part of schooling and perhaps even take over comepletely in some classes. but it will never replace gross anatomy, micro lab, and clinical skills labs. frankly i don't know if the current set up at iuhs of finding your own mentor is a good set up just from a quality assurance perspective, how do they measure the quality of your mentoring? i don't know enough about the program to comment on it other than the fact that they haven't been able to produce a single resident or licensed doctor from the online program. so the question as to whom is actually wasting their time is open to debate. 4 years of hardship and eating 99c cheeseburgers with a 99% chance at getting a residency, or 4 confortable years home with an online degree that has thus far been worthless? As one expert said to me "Would you really want to go to a doctor who was too busy in his chiropractic/podiatry/dental practice to go to medical school and did it on his offhours?"

maximillian genossa
11-24-2005, 11:30 AM
Many, and I would say almost 70 percent of the negative postings against IUHS are from EX-STUDENTS who left for one reason or other. There is one person who posts here under different ID's that was a faculty member a few years ago, and as hard as this paticular person is in his accusations, he knows how the backstage organization works there.

Most students that I know have been promised loans for years now, and the latest I heard from the mouth of a gentleman from Canada was that all loans for all schools in the Caribbean where being phased out due to hig default.

That Steve, was a flat out LIE. I know how SLM, TERI, even the DOE Stafford loans systems work. And what he told me was simply a lie. Let me be political correct, misrepresentation of facts, does that sound good for you, can we drink kool-aid now?

I have nothing against online basic sciences, I believe eventually it will become mainstream, but it has to be done responsibly. I do know that IUHS students do full time CLINICAL ROTATIONS in the U.S.A., contrary to some people here that pretend to tell us that the entire program is online, that is ridiculous.

But the fact remains, IUHS has a lot of issues and must operate ethically and responsibly.

I wish you the best of lucks in career

cheers,

Max








I am not replying to the unjustified comments made on this forum in order to protect or defend IUHS. I just don't understand why a few people feel so compelled to attempt to discredit a school with such vigor. Furthermore, it seems many of the postings come from people who are not enrolled in medical school anywhere. Interestingly, all of the negative medical student posts have been from folks attending other foreign medical schools. Do you understand that US medical students view YOU the same as you view IUHS and it's students? US medical students view ALL foreign medical students as slackers and people who could not matriculate into a "real" US medical school. And, in most cases, that is true! I can only speak for myself and the few IUHS students I know that are rotating at the same hospital I am. We all have atleast Master's Degrees from US universities. In fact, there are a few students who are DPM's and DC's. We took classes like second semester Organic Chemistry and Physics as undergraduates and earned A's. We also took the MCAT and scored 30 or above. We passed USMLE Step 1 and some of us Step 2 CK and CS with scores above 80. However, none of us could have afforded to attend medical school if IUHS didn't exist. This is because we have kids, child support payments, mortgages, etc.. and could not afford to take off 4 years of work to attend medical school. However, our "jobs" were as Chiropractors, Podiatrists, Physiology Professors, Nurse Practioners, and the like. Please compare that to a typical Ross U. or St. George student who didn't go to a US medical school because THEY COULDN'T GET IN! They earned a C in Organic chemistry, didn't take 2nd semester physics, a 21 on the MCAT, etc.. this list of reasons is long. Then, you have SABA, AUC, St. Chris, etc.. students who couldn't even get into Ross or St George! I don't even want to know their backgrounds! Nevertheless, I find it curious that it is some of these very students who are attempting to discredit my school, IUHS.

There is going to be a shortage of physicians in the US soon. Many US medical schools are adopting online learning into their curriculums. If a person can pass the required licensing exams (USMLE), and believe me they are difficult, complete a residency program per state requirements, who cares if they completed their first 2 years of basic sciences online?

I challenge anyone without a medical background and who has not taken courses in medical sciences to enroll in a 6 week Kaplan prep course for Step 1 and see if you pass step 1. I know you are going to tell me that a medical school must sponsor you, so that is impossible. So, take NBME Form 1 or 2 after the class and see if you score above 400. Chances are you will not pass. So, how is it that atleast 6 IUHS ELP (online) students that I know of have passed Step 1, and 3 of the 6 have passed Step 2 CK and CS? The answer is a decent academic program at IUHS, persistence, and diligence. Yes, I took Kaplan prior to sitting for Step 1. Every student in my class of 100 was from a foreign med school except 1 student, who was from a US school (she was on her 2nd attempt). Most of the students were on their 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th attempts at Step 1! Guess what? Only 3 students, inlcluding myself, were from IUHS. We all passed with 80 or above! I know of atleast 2 students, from one of these other so-called reputable foreign medical schools, who failed (72 and 74) even after taking Kaplan and they attended their respective schools' "on-campus" programs.

IUHS provides one of many paths to becoming a physician. I am glad that I have been given the opportunity to pursue my dream of becoming a MD. I am currently rotating at one of 6 hospitals in Illinois that gladly accepts students from IUHS. I will finally attain my goal of becoming a MD in July 2006. It has been a long road, with more to come, but I can say that I am very happy I did it. I hope this helps any prospective students make a more informed decision about where they decide to attend medical school.

Steve
IUHS MS 4

Good luck to everybody who aspires to become a doc!

iuhsms4
11-25-2005, 12:18 PM
Good luck to all "real" current and prospective medical students who read this post. Stick with it! Be diligent and you will also attain your goal. I need to scrub for my next procedure. By the way, how many of you negative bashers were on-call last night (Thanksgiving) and had to come in at 6:00 pm for a trauma? I did. Now, let's talk about sacrifice.....


Steve
MS4 IUHS

azskeptic
11-25-2005, 12:35 PM
RRod et.al,

First, IUHS currently has several residents in US programs all over the country who completed their basic sciences online. I know of atleast 2 IUHS grads who have obtained licensure. Also, IUHS does require their ELP students to participate in a mentoring program during basic sciences to gain clinical experience. I did mine with an internal med doc and gained a vast amount of experience doing H&P's. I averaged about 20 encounters a day- 3 to 5 days a week for 2 years before beginning clinical rotations. Compare that to many US teaching hospitals where you have 5 MS2's following 3 residents, who follow 1 or 2 attendings into a patient's room. The MS2's are lucky if they get to take a history from a real patient, let alone perform a head to toe physical and do the write-up. Nevertheless, the clinical experience that they receive is clearly invaluable. I think my pre-clinical experience was also invaluable, as well.

Most of the hospitals that IUHS students rotate in are, in fact, "green book" and provide a good clinical experience. I can only speak for my hospital and it's clinical faculty. I have been the only student or in a group of no more than 3 students in every one of my rotations. I have done hundreds of H&P's, rounded and wrote notes for hundreds of patients, started IV's, assisted on cental lines and art lines, intubated, sutured, delivered babys, 1st assisted on c-sections, hysterectomies, etc..I am currently in the middle of my surgery rotation where we perform several procedures a day, which I 1st assist on all of them. I am oncall 24/7. Every rotation at my hospital has allowed me to experience the lifestyle of the physicians in each respective specialty. My wife and I also eat 99 cent cheeseburgers these days b/c we are broke too, RDD. We have sacrificed alot in order to pursue my dream. Please don't make assumptions about other people unless you know them very well.

The sacrifices one has to make to become a doc start way before buying their airline ticket to Antigua or Dominica. That is why I mentioned organic chemistry and physics in my last post. Chiropractors and podiatrists have made sacrifices before being accepted into their respective programs. Both of those programs require students to take the same pre-medical classes a US medical school candidate does before they are allowed acceptance. The point I was trying to make is that it is curious that many of the people who negatively post on here didn't excell in or even take organic chem., physics, and/or the MCAT. However, they talk about IUHS online students taking "shortcuts" to obtain a medical degree. That is like one fart telling the other, "You stink!" :) Be thankful that some US licensing boards are leniant when it comes to pre-medical coursework, number of attempts at USMLE exams, and graduation from offshore schools. in other words, be careful for what you wish for. Stop worrying about and trying to disuade people from attending schools when you, yourself, probably attend a school that doesn't require you take the MCAT and successfull completion of 2 semesters of organic chemistry and physics w/lab which, in my opinion, is essential for pre-medical education. I took the MCAT (31), took 2 semesters of orgo and physics (A's), and took several graduate hours in physiology, anatomy, and biology prior to matriculating into medical school.

As far as micro and anatomy labs- I and many of my colleagues at IUHS have dissected cadavers, prepared slides, cultured a variety of microorganisms, etc etc etc... as graduate students prior to gaining admission to IUHS. During the basic science part of IUHS's program, our teachers show slides of relevant histological, microbiological, and pathological specimens. During clinical rotations, I have prepared wet mounts, peripheral smears, bone marrows, etc... and viewed them with a board certified pathologist and /or hematologist/oncologist- one on one!

Nevertheless, I hope that you will stop making false statements about IUHS and begin trying to look at the positives that this school has to offer it's student population. I admit that IUHS isn't for everyone. I agree that a student should have a strong basic science background before enrolling in IUHS's ELP (online) program, including experience dissecting cadavers preferably at the graduate level. But, it doesn't matter what school you go to- passing the USMLE boards, successfully competeing clinical rotations, and gaining a residency is going to be a challenge and will require a tremendous amount of sacrifice for all IMG's! The students who try to take short-cuts and not do the work required, including not taking ALL of the pre-med courses required for every US medical school will most likely not succeed. Many students at IUHS and other foreign medical schools have realized that, as they can't pass step 1. Many quit or spend their time bashing medcial schools on forums like this. However, some do succeed, and obtain residency positions in US hospitals irrespective of where they went to school.

Good luck to all "real" current and prospective medical students who read this post. Stick with it! Be diligent and you will also attain your goal. I need to scrub for my next procedure. By the way, how many of you negative bashers were on-call last night (Thanksgiving) and had to come in at 6:00 pm for a trauma? I did. Now, let's talk about sacrifice.....


Steve
MS4 IUHS SO you don't misunderstand, what is being said to you is online medical education, 'mentors', and not physically attending a medical school are not accepted practices. You will spend the rest of your medical career looking over your shoulder because states have and will continue to expand disapproval of shady practices pure and simple.

You can argue against it but the 'success' rate of your school and a similiar program, UHSA, is reflected in the lack of graduates and only a few people in residencies. The numbers speak for themselves.

maximillian genossa
11-25-2005, 05:19 PM
Whatever works for you Steve.

Oh, Az....."Skepticism is the first step toward truth......, or total paranoia"
tell that to Dr. Edell







SO you don't misunderstand, what is being said to you is online medical education, 'mentors', and not physically attending a medical school are not accepted practices. You will spend the rest of your medical career looking over your shoulder because states have and will continue to expand disapproval of shady practices pure and simple.

You can argue against it but the 'success' rate of your school and a similiar program, UHSA, is reflected in the lack of graduates and only a few people in residencies. The numbers speak for themselves.

AUCMD2006
11-25-2005, 09:46 PM
once again i'l say it simpler... it doesn't matter what you did, how many H&P's you have done, how many IV's you have started or how many bowels you have disimpcated. medical boards will not care and will not license you. again show a link to a fully licensed doctor from the online iuhs program... residency does not mean much because they don;t fully check your credentials until you apply for an unrestriced license, i've met people who have had to show their passports with date stamps to prove time on campus, and others that have had to repeat rotations because they either were not acgme or due to time (in PA they count up weeks differently).

it's your time and money, i am pointing this out for people that think there is a shortcut to getting a medical degree. doing things that are 'cutting edge', 'pinoneering' etc in the caribbean will probably burn you in the end because you will not be able to practice as a doctor. some places will not even allow you to work as a chiro and print MD on your cards or tell anyone that you are a MD.

again this is not saying that chiros shouldn't get some advance credit, PA's and chiros probably should get it in anatomy and whatever other classes they had in their training, and i am not saying that internet classes don't work....in many cases they do. all i am pointing out is that what iuhs does is not standard practice in the US, and is only being tested on limited scale and only with few classes in big time universities, so you will have a VERY difficult time getting medical boards to accept your degree through the online program.

like AZ pointed out, maybe you will get by some board but will alwaysd be looking behind you and hoping the board doesn't ask more questions because as it stands right now i doubt any medical board will accept credits from an internet medical school regardless of the quality of the clinical training. why don't you email a few of them and ask them their policies on credits from internet schools you wil be disappointed in the responses you get.

so to sum up, for any allied professional that just wants to "augment" their training and impress clients by saying they are an MD but would rather practice chiro, or naturapathy, or homeopathy because it is "superior" then any of these programs will work...there are easier ones that don't require much other than a fee so that would be an evan easier route.

please post links to iuhs distance beased learning grads fully licensed to practice medicine. please prove me wrong, i really hope i am wrong on this one because otherwise you and all your classmates that came before you and are matriculating now have just wasted your time......

disclaimer-this doesn't include the full time students. someone PM'd me some iuhs full time students who are in residency.

AUCMD2006
11-30-2005, 07:23 PM
any proof of fully licensed doctors from the online program yet?

iuhsms4
11-30-2005, 10:05 PM
ps. I have received several IM's from students at different med schools. I am glad you IM'd me. Simply contact IUHS and they will be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding their medical program. ;)

azskeptic
11-30-2005, 10:14 PM
Have you thoroughly researched every state's professional board of regulation in regards to their licensing requirements, etc..? If you haven't, I am curious why you continue to assume that "states" will not license a doctor who completed an online basic science program.

Are you a medical student? If so, what school do/did you attend? Are graduates from your school eligible for licensure in all 50 states?

Temporary licenses for residency, for some states, are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. They are reviewed probably more diligently than the "Licensed physician" license given to docs who complete 1 or 3 years of residency (US and IMG's respectively) according to a representative of a state's DPR. Residents have prescription privledges, can admit patients, etc... State boards are not leniant when it comes to allowing those sorts of privelidges to residents. IUHS has several residents in the US currently who completed the ELP program and there is no reason for me to believe that IUHS graduates, who pass USMLEs Step 1, 2 ck and cs, and Step 3, and complete 3 years of residency, will have any more difficulty gaining licensure than any other IMG.

You often post quotes regarding "skepticism". Being a skeptic doesn't exempt you from doing your own research regarding something that you are skeptical about. I have done my research in the state I wish to practice medicine in. I am confident that I will not have difficulty obtaining licensure as other students in my program have gained licensure in my state. Also, I have spoken to several reps of my state's dept. of professional regulation who have said that my education is adequate for licensure as long as I pass all 3 steps and complete my residency requirement, in addition to having a clean criminal background, etc... Get your facts first- OK? Please don't post Indiana's licensing requirements and extrapolate that to the other 49 states. That is too easy. That requires little thought and time. I challenge you to take the time and find out ALL OF the facts (all 50 states)- then post based on what you find. Until then, please do not embarass (spelling?) yourself, your school, and most importantly, your integrity with assumptions and unjustifiable skepticism.

Good luck to all of you who aspire to become docs,

Steve
IUHS MS4

ps. I have received several IM's from students at different med schools. I am glad you IM'd me. Simply contact IUHS and they will be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding their medical program. ;) Well, the reason people question you probably is because IUHS has been around a long time and you can't readily find licensed graduates. Whats that mean? are they all dropping out? failing the USMLE's? or not getting licensed? How many weeks will you be on campus total?

AUCMD2006
11-30-2005, 11:05 PM
"Have you thoroughly researched every state's professional board of regulation in regards to their licensing requirements, etc..? If you haven't, I am curious why you continue to assume that "states" will not license a doctor who completed an online basic science program."

i'm not the one that needs to do this but for poops and giggles last year i did send out a mass email to texas, florida, illinois, michigan, california, indiana, kansas, pensylvania, virginia, alaska...basically all the states that i had some vague interest in and all said they require a complete 2 years of on campus training and would not issue license to anyone with distance learning credit. additionally check out the requirements on the prohibition of giving students advanced standing and how that relates to licensing.


"Are you a medical student? If so, what school do/did you attend? Are graduates from your school eligible for licensure in all 50 states? "

yes a soon to be 4th year and yes my school has grads in the 50 states.

"Temporary licenses for residency, for some states, are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. They are reviewed probably more diligently than the "Licensed physician" license given to docs who complete 1 or 3 years of residency"

don't know about this one since you are overseen by a licensed MD i don;t know if they look at it as close. i know some who have been asked for travel documents and proof of staying on campus for 2 years for their permanent license but not for the training one.

"Residents have prescription privledges, can admit patients, etc... State boards are not leniant when it comes to allowing those sorts of privelidges to residents."

all under the supervision of an attending

"IUHS has several residents in the US currently who completed the ELP program"

there is no proof. i don't particularly care, i bring it up b/c there are plenty of scams out there for fresh students to fall into. please prove me wrong..it's just that this school has been aropund a long time yet it is difficult to find licensed doctors from the elp program.

"and there is no reason for me to believe that IUHS graduates, who pass USMLEs Step 1, 2 ck and cs, and Step 3, and complete 3 years of residency, will have any more difficulty gaining licensure than any other IMG."

check with the states i mentioned above and read about advance standing. my biology TA passed all 3 steps yet still did not have a residency....

"You often post quotes regarding "skepticism". Being a skeptic doesn't exempt you from doing your own research regarding something that you are skeptical about. I have done my research in the state I wish to practice medicine in. I am confident that I will not have difficulty obtaining licensure as other students in my program have gained licensure in my state."

please provide proof. please prove me and others on this forum wrong. again...i don't care either way but if you provide proof of a fully licensed doctor from the elp program, anyone with advance standing, that is working as an MD and not just using the initials to boost patient load. etc then i will beleive the claims, be better informed, and be able to give prospective students who ask me about emd school another option. until i see the public records of a fully licensed doc from the internet progarm i will continue to ask for it anytime anyone makes a claim that it is easy and seamless to get licensed from this program when there is absolutely no proof of to that effect.


Also, I have spoken to several reps of my state's dept. of professional regulation who have said that my education is adequate for licensure as long as I pass all 3 steps and complete my residency requirement, in addition to having a clean criminal background, etc... Get your facts first- OK? Please don't post Indiana's licensing requirements and extrapolate that to the other 49 states. That is too easy. That requires little thought and time. I challenge you to take the time and find out ALL OF the facts (all 50 states)- then post based on what you find. Until then, please do not embarass (spelling?) yourself, your school, and most importantly, your integrity with assumptions and unjustifiable skepticism.

Good luck to all of you who aspire to become docs,

Steve
IUHS MS4

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 11:19 AM
Well, the reason people question you probably is because IUHS has been around a long time and you can't readily find licensed graduates. Whats that mean? are they all dropping out? failing the USMLE's? or not getting licensed? How many weeks will you be on campus total?

Lets say you did your basic sciences off campus. Lets say you passed the USMLE Step One , lets say you did all your required clinical rotations onsite, green book hospital and had flying color evaluations, better than some "traditional on site medical students". Lets also assume you passed your Step 2 and matched to a residence spot that many "traditional" students did not managed to get. Assuming you end your residency and impress your attendings, etc.

DOES THE FACT THAT YOU DID YOUR BASIC SCIENCES ONLINE MAKES YOU A WORSE DOCTOR after doing everyhting I hypothetically quoted?

Should the basic sciences portion be a reasonable and sole criteria to ban you from getting a license after passing everything else and demonstrating competence in all areas of medicine?

Yes? Why?

No? Why?

Justify your answers with reasonable arguements.

I would like to hear something other than the typical "no single state will license... bla bla bla" That record is old.

Lets get to the core of this and leave the stereotyping behind. Come on folks, prove me you can THINK objectively based on the case I presented.

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 11:26 AM
Lets say you did your basic sciences off campus. Lets say you passed the USMLE Step One , lets say you did all your required clinical rotations onsite, green book hospital and had flying color evaluations, better than some "traditional on site medical students". Lets also assume you passed your Step 2 and matched to a residence spot that many "traditional" students did not managed to get. Assuming you end your residency and impress your attendings, etc.

DOES THE FACT THAT YOU DID YOUR BASIC SCIENCES ONLINE MAKES YOU A WORSE DOCTOR after doing everyhting I hypothetically quoted?

Should the basic sciences portion be a reasonable and sole criteria to ban you from getting a license after passing everything else and demonstrating competence in all areas of medicine?

Yes? Why?

No? Why?

Justify your answers with reasonable arguements.

I would like to hear something other than the typical "no single state will license... bla bla bla" That record is old.

Lets get to the core of this and leave the stereotyping behind. Come on folks, prove me you can THINK objectively based on the case I presented. Equivalent to LCME school is what you are attempting to meet...show me an LCME school that allows you to do ALL of your basic science online and continue to work your day job?

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 11:36 AM
Just answer me the question based on the case I presented. do not try to dance around the issue. You would have been a horrible law student. Just stick to the case, and answer the question, it is simple, no need to complicate it. I could not make it easier for you.

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 11:41 AM
Just answer me the question based on the case I presented. do not try to dance around the issue. You would have made a horrible law student. You or I aren't qualified to do a med school curriculum but we can look at what exists and figure there is a reason for it. Look, if you want to change the system convince Harvard,Yale, heck even Howard to let the students stay home and do their basic science at home. I am not dancing...just dealing with the reality that like everyone else on this list we aren't qualified to make curriculums...but those who are qualified,med professors/state medical directors,etc. have told me that there is a reason for med school attendance....professors want to see the students,how they react to pressure,personality problems,etc. you don't see that over a computer completely.

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 11:45 AM
Still not answering the question Az. Typical. I am not de****g who is qualified to answer a simple question or not. I am not asking to evaluate the program, just presented a hypothetical question that I would present to a medical board and see how interesting the questions will be. I made it easy for you dude, I said assuming the student has done clinical rotations, residency etc. Obviously he has been observed for behavior and all that. It was easy or you just missed that part of the case.

Come one, give an answer without distracting me from the issue of the case.

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 11:47 AM
Still not answering the question Az. Typical. I am not de****g who is qualified to answer a simple question or not. I am not asking to evaluate the program, just presented a hypothetical question that I would present to a medical board and see how interesting the questions will be. I made it easy for you dude, I said assuming the student has done clinical rotations, residency etc. Obviously he has been observed for behavior and all that. It was easy or you just missed that part of the case.

Come one, give an answer without distracting me from the issue of the case. You are not dealing with what I am saying. The state laws relate to meeting equivalency. So the standard is what exists....I don't personally believe that startup med schools or schools in 3rd world countries are going to be the ones introducing radical change to education.

Maybe someone else can help you because I'm not the one who is going to make you happy.

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 11:51 AM
The question Az, IS THE STUDENT A WORSE DOCTOR than other after passing all the hurdles I mentioned.

I am not asking you about your biases on medical education, that is very obvious.

You are afraid of answering the question. SIMPLE.

You don't need to make me happy, I don't need to make you happy. You just can not answer a simple question.

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 11:55 AM
The question Az, IS THE STUDENT A WORSE DOCTOR than other after passing all the hurdles I mentioned.

I am not asking you about your biases on medical education, that is very obvious.

You are afraid of answering the question. SIMPLE.it is logical that there is a reason for medical school attendance....thousands of years experience seems to indicate that those who go to medical school become doctors...those who attend through the internet are something new....who knows if they are worse? from what we've seen on these forums many of the people who seem to be attracted to these programs seem to have personality issues at best....like the young man who wrote me this week claiming to be a surgical resident....his email traced back to having just graduated from university......or the guy who threatened me who turned out to be a chiropractor working 80 hours/week and trying to attend medical school via the internet on the side.

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 11:57 AM
So your answer is "who knows if they are worse?".

Correct?

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 12:00 PM
So your answer is "who knows if they are worse?".

Correct? Correct, in the lack of proof and evidence based research the offshore schools are in unchartered territory

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 12:03 PM
It was a hypothetical case, Az. You don't want to commit to ananswer, fine, I understand that. However, if the case would have been the other way around, a student from a traditional BASIC SCIENCES curriculum I am going to guess the answer would have been more concrete.

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 12:05 PM
It was a hypothetical case, Az. You don't want to commit to ananswer, fine, I understand that. However, if the case would have been the other way around, a student from a traditional BASIC SCIENCES curriculum I am going to guess the answer would have been more concrete. But we have evidence that medical schools train good doctors in the traditional way..we have hundreds of thousands of examples.

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 12:06 PM
Its a matter of bias, Az, that simple, bias and perceptions. The case was self-explanatory.

Thanks for participating.

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 12:08 PM
Its a matter of bias, Az, that simple, bias and perceptions. The case was self-explanatory.

Thanks for participating. It isn't very logica what you attempted to do. You attempted to show that an unproven style is equal without evidence.

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 12:12 PM
No, I was proving bias. And it is very logical, it is called case study. In this case it was hypothetical.

However, now that you mention it, you said..."just dealing with the reality that like everyone else on this list we aren't qualified to make curriculums"

However, what qualifies you to judge these programs and go on and make presentations to medical boards, when you admit not having the qualifications to make curriculums, but you do have the necessary qualifications to critique them. I am impressed!

My impression from you is, if it is not US made or US done, it won't work. 3rd wrld countiries are too dumb for you.

Please!

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 12:18 PM
No, I was proving bias. And it is very logical, it is called case study. In this case it was hypothetical.

However, now that you mention it, you said..."just dealing with the reality that like everyone else on this list we aren't qualified to make curriculums"

However, what qualifies you to judge these programs and go on and make presentations to medical boards, when you admit not having the qualifications to make curriculums, but you do have the necessary qualifications to critique them. I am impressed!

My impression from you is, if it is not US made or US done, it won't work. 3rd wrld countiries are too dumb for you.

Please! I am not judging the curriculums. I am asking boards to use professionals to go and look at the schools.

It is unfair to say I am against all offshore med schools. There are many that are fine--teaching,following the laws, have oversight/accreditation, and have standards for students applications. You don't hear me questioning the good schools. You do hear me asking questions about schools that have major defects,per govt inspections,etc.

Again, the focus should be on the schools....that is where I put it when I speak. I have 3 major presentations coming up in the US and Europe in the next 9 months and am working on a powerpoint as I speak.

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 12:20 PM
Can you PM me your itinerary and see if I can accomodate my schedule and see you and try to present the other side of the story? That would be fair, at the least.

azskeptic
12-01-2005, 12:22 PM
Can you PM me your itinerary and see if I can accomodate my schedule and see you and try to present the other side of the story? That would be fair, at the least. As soon as the announcements come out for public knowledge I'll let you know. are you going to the FSMB meeting in Boston in April?

maximillian genossa
12-01-2005, 12:25 PM
April, I would like to attend it.

AUCMD2006
12-01-2005, 03:59 PM
no it doesn't make them a better or worse doctor. i think eventually many classes can be taught via computer with live webcast lectures and so on. i think anatomy is ireplaceable via computer as well as micro, neuro, path labs were you see specimens and work with the lab equipemnt.

its simple and the argument is not wether someone will be a good doctor or not. the point is that the laws right now prohibit such a curriculum because right now its not the standard way to teach in the US and i see nothing wrong for the state boards to require that schools with 99% US students follow US guidelines.

my point wasn't wether they are better or worse students or doctors, i am pointing out that there hasn't been a single grad fully licensed from this program so that prospective students can ask appropriate questions.

AUCMD2006
12-02-2005, 07:17 AM
"Sometimes, courts have gotten involved.In 2004 the Kansas Court of Appeals ruled that Steven L. ******, who had obtained a medical degree from the University of Health Sciences Antigua but spent only eight weeks on campus, could not use the title of M.D. "Because ******'s medical education and training is vastly inferior to that of licensed M.D.'s, ******'s continued use of the M.D. designation in imitation of licensed M.D.'s diminishes the general esteem of the M.D. title," the court wrote.

Some Caribbean medical schools teach almost exclusively over the Internet an appealing marketing tool to students in the United States and that worries some in the medical community in the United States. Mr. Thompson, of the state medical board federation, says that clinical work and small group projects are an increasingly important part of United States medical schools' curricula.

"That's something you can't get by Internet," he says.

He notes, however, that the U.S. Medical Licensing Examination began testing clinical skills last year, by assessing how well prospective doctors examine people posing as patients. This, he believes, ensures that doctors must have hands-on training to become licensed.

Graduates of the island programs say they serve a legitimate purpose. Steven A. Guttenberg, D.D.S., an oral and maxillofacial surgeon in Washington, D.C., obtained his medical degree from the University of Health Sciences Antigua, spending one week on Antigua to satisfy a requirement in the school's charter. He uses the M.D. title on his Web site and in his e-mail address, but he is not a licensed physician.
He says, though, that he is not deceiving patients. "Nobody ever asks me to deliver their babies or do heart surgery," he says. "That's foolish."


Here is the attitude you will come up against by using a online degree, be it fair or not your education will seem even less adequate than mine in their eyes. As for the dentist, WHY oh WHY would you get an MD title with potential to make more and not use it? could it be because you can't? so can anyone show a licensed doctor from thsi program?

i meant it just to ask for proof to combat these two stories and the lack of any licensed grads...i even found a windsor grad when i tried to find IUHS

azskeptic
12-02-2005, 07:28 AM
"Sometimes, courts have gotten involved.In 2004 the Kansas Court of Appeals ruled that Steven L. ******, who had obtained a medical degree from the University of Health Sciences Antigua but spent only eight weeks on campus, could not use the title of M.D. "Because ******'s medical education and training is vastly inferior to that of licensed M.D.'s, ******'s continued use of the M.D. designation in imitation of licensed M.D.'s diminishes the general esteem of the M.D. title," the court wrote.

Some Caribbean medical schools teach almost exclusively over the Internet an appealing marketing tool to students in the United States and that worries some in the medical community in the United States. Mr. Thompson, of the state medical board federation, says that clinical work and small group projects are an increasingly important part of United States medical schools' curricula.

"That's something you can't get by Internet," he says.

He notes, however, that the U.S. Medical Licensing Examination began testing clinical skills last year, by assessing how well prospective doctors examine people posing as patients. This, he believes, ensures that doctors must have hands-on training to become licensed.

Graduates of the island programs say they serve a legitimate purpose. Steven A. Guttenberg, D.D.S., an oral and maxillofacial surgeon in Washington, D.C., obtained his medical degree from the University of Health Sciences Antigua, spending one week on Antigua to satisfy a requirement in the school's charter. He uses the M.D. title on his Web site and in his e-mail address, but he is not a licensed physician.
He says, though, that he is not deceiving patients. "Nobody ever asks me to deliver their babies or do heart surgery," he says. "That's foolish."


Here is the attitude you will come up against by using a online degree, be it fair or not your education will seem even less adequate than mine in their eyes. As for the dentist, WHY oh WHY would you get an MD title with potential to make more and not use it? could it be because you can't? so can anyone show a licensed doctor from thsi program?

i meant it just to ask for proof to combat these two stories and the lack of any licensed grads...i even found a windsor grad when i tried to find IUHSas one distinguished medical leader told me "Why would anyone want a MD Lite degree

azskeptic
12-02-2005, 09:04 AM
Can you PM me your itinerary and see if I can accomodate my schedule and see you and try to present the other side of the story? That would be fair, at the least. Genossa, as the only person I know of who has attended both IUHS and UHSA you are in a unique position to describe how the teaching works? Out of curiosity why didn't you finish? Did lots of your classmates not finish?

maximillian genossa
12-02-2005, 02:27 PM
Genossa, as the only person I know of who has attended both IUHS and UHSA you are in a unique position to describe how the teaching works? Out of curiosity why didn't you finish? Did lots of your classmates not finish?

I attended UHSA in the 1980's, when the school was new and the online or distance education was not existent. I completed my basic sciences there, and during a vacation back home, I married my girlfriend back then got pregnant (I would live to regret this decision). So I left medical school, with plans of one day finish. So I went into law school, it was much easier since it offered part time night programs. Eventually I divorced and as I said I regret leaving medical school the first time around. Not that I was bad at law, I made good money and met many interesting people besides learning how to deal with people who believe to be smart.

In 1999 I decided to enroll in IUHS, under the old administration and did the online course for a semester then I decided to go on site. IUHS DID NOT ACCEPTED ANY of my UHSA credits because they were too old. I was one of their first students as well as other chaps, one of them a brilliant student that transferred to another Caribbean school (can't remember if it was Windsor) but this guy got a high 90's percentile in the USMLE I when he realized that there were some problems with IUHS. That was the first shake up.

The program can work if YOU ARE APPLIED and if the school requires students to attend anatomy, histology and microbiology onsite. The rest of basic sciences (this is my opinion) you can complete online. I left IUHS over a financial dispute, and differences with a professor with a real bad attitude. One year later I settled with the school, got my transcript and managed to transfer to another school where I recently graduated from.

Many classmates had lots of problems with basic material, as well as biochem (the program was really bad in biochem, I assume it has not changed or maybe is worse). I can say that the most brilliant classmates I had, transferred to other schools which I will not divulge in this site for ethical reasons.

As I said before, INTELLIGENTLY and RESPONSIBLY managed, the program can work. But this administration does not seem to be intelligent and much less responsible.

The previous administration had a clue on how to make this work, they licensed the program from Australia, Sydney I believe, but never got their heads together to make it work as it was supposed to, they sold it for a quick buck. My informants tell me that the new administration does not give a flip about it and they do not seem to know what they are doing in any aspect of medical education. My last visit there, I counted 4 students. I am told that the online curriculum has several dozens.

Don't get me wrong Az, I am a strong advocate for online education,IF IT IS DONE responsibly. I do not consider medicine a sacred cow subject to traditional teaching method. Everything evolves and changes and medicine will not be the exception.

In this case UHSA was the first one but IUHS took the lead (somehow unfortunate because they dropped the ball) after UHSA proved to have serious deficiencies. However, I do know of at least 4 students that completed their basic scineces online at IUHS, passed their USMLE's, transferred to other schools, rotated in the USA at green book hospitals and are doing residency and have excellent recommendations. My hypothetical case was based on a real scenario, but I do not want to affect anybody.

Do not expect me or anyone to give this information out, it is unethical, and ethics seems to be something lacking by the vast majority of poster in these forums. I can't believe some of these people are medical students or medical graduates.

France, Australia and many other developed nations are experimenting one way or other with online basic sciences. In the USA , Ohio State University has a similar program, with some special requirements. So the word is spreading out.


Se la vie messier

Max

P.S. Pardon any spelling mistakes

maximillian genossa
12-02-2005, 02:28 PM
OH, Az, I am still interested in attending at least one of your conferences.

azskeptic
12-02-2005, 05:31 PM
OH, Az, I am still interested in attending at least one of your conferences. Send me your bio and contact info and I'll invite you to be on a panel discussion.

azskeptic
12-02-2005, 05:44 PM
Max, show me what is similiar to Ohio States online classwork to UHSA or IUHS's......

also what is equivalent of the type of student that Oho State takes vs. UHSA/IUHS?

How much supervision do UHSA/IUHS have in comparison to Ohio State?

maximillian genossa
12-03-2005, 12:34 AM
You have the bad habit of not being careful when you read, or you just read whatever is convenient for you.

Here is an exert of my posting, for your convenience, to refresh your memory.

"France, Australia and many other developed nations are experimenting one way or other with online basic sciences. In the USA , Ohio State University has a similar program, with some special requirements"

I never said their programs were similar to IUHS OR UHSA. I CLEARLY said online basic sciences with some special requirements. Check it out by yourself and you will see the special requirements.

As I said, I am an advocate for online basic sciences done RESPONSIBLY. I guess you did not read that part either. But that is what happens when your only point is trying to desperately win an argument, you miss a lot of details or omit them on purpose.

Nice try dude.

azskeptic
12-03-2005, 01:16 AM
You have the bad habit of not being careful when you read, or you just read whatever is convenient for you.

Here is an exert of my posting, for your convenience, to refresh your memory.

"France, Australia and many other developed nations are experimenting one way or other with online basic sciences. In the USA , Ohio State University has a similar program, with some special requirements"

I never said their programs were similar to IUHS OR UHSA. I CLEARLY said online basic sciences with some special requirements. Check it out by yourself and you will see the special requirements.

As I said, I am an advocate for online basic sciences done RESPONSIBLY. I guess you did not read that part either. But that is what happens when your only point is trying to desperately win an argument, you miss a lot of details or omit them on purpose.

Nice try dude. Max, we agree on this...IUHS and UHSA don't look like Ohio State or Australia,etc. as far as that goes. Ok, that is settled. Thanks!!!!!!

maximillian genossa
12-03-2005, 12:15 PM
Max, we agree on this...IUHS and UHSA don't look like Ohio State or Australia,etc. as far as that goes. Ok, that is settled. Thanks!!!!!!

You are very welcome my friend.

iuhsms4
12-25-2005, 03:21 PM
Checking message

DRJJ1
08-31-2006, 10:03 PM
Good For You..........i Hope You Make It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DRJJ1
08-31-2006, 10:07 PM
It Can And Will Be Done,,now Licensed Doctors Yes Mds Will Make It ,,,online,,,im Not Saying All Courses But Only 3 With A Degree And Off To Rounds And Step 1 2 3 Residency,,,it Is And Being Done,,,i Know For A Fact And Soon This Dr Will Get A Md Degree In A Certain State,,stay Tuned,,,the System Will Be Bucked And Bucked Well,,,the Future Of Md S Will Be Expanded And Embrace It Good Luck Man

DRJJ1
08-31-2006, 10:12 PM
And The School Is Still Here,,,,,,,,i Am Not In This School Or Have Any Interest Whatsoever,,,just Facts Not Little Kids Making Assumptions And Jealous That They Suffered In Med School If They Even Went To Med School,,,maybe Frustrated Researchers Or Drug Reps Who Got Denied Med School Is Here,,,

DRJJ1
08-31-2006, 10:22 PM
Who Went The Traditional Route And Incompetent

DRJJ1
08-31-2006, 10:39 PM
THIS internet med school is not going away,,fact,,my buddy is starting a residency and is in it now,,since there is so much ** here I prefer to keep it on the low down for now but,,I am considering attending this school online and doing my rounds in the northeast area,,its who you know sometimes not what you know,,,most med students buy cheat sheets and video lessons now many don t even attend class,,,go track them and see what they miss,,would you rather have an md who cheated thru school,,I would imagine that should be easier to track,,nothing wrong with obtaining your goals anyway you can,,nothing!! good luck for all taking that risk,,,most things invented or new paths were people who took risks in life and chances,,,go with the masses and you will never go farther than them,,,be different,,I am witnessing this myself with by friend in residency and will get a temp license this time next year plus food and 40k yr,,,so talk is cheap but I know and am real close to trying this myself,,,

Carmen
09-03-2006, 08:24 PM
I'm not sure if it is just me, but I am confused by what you are trying to state. I guess in life, you will always encounter cheaters, but the administrators of this school are the cheaters. They encourage people to join their school who lack pre-medical education.

Just wait until you can't make one of your monthly payments. The happy voice on the IUHS end will become very ugly.

I do wish you luck, but please consider the sheer numbers of people who write in this forum. Could they all be wrong?

Good Luck

drjohnwebb
09-03-2006, 08:48 PM
You can do internet classes, but most states are now denying anyone who even attended one of those schools that offer the distance learning classes.... even if you didn't do the distance learning.

Stay away from internet medical programs...

Just step up and do it the right way.

maximillian genossa
09-04-2006, 12:44 PM
....just wait until licensure time comes around and you will remember these forums. One thing my dear comrade is residency and another thing is licensure. I know of at least one student who is facing this reality as I type these words. It is a she and she has found out the state she did residency will not license her.

Good luck, you will certainly need it at licensing time. For those confusing LICENSING with RESIDENCY, here is some food for your thought.

Residency, less strict than licensing, requires a training license in most states, or training permit, or whatever the state wants to call it. Normally an ECFMG certificate and good reference letters can get you into one, depending on how competitive it is. You go through the hospital's program director and hiring committee and are granted a contract, renewable every year and you are disposable at any time if you are incompetent, a trouble maker, a bad team player or the hospital runs out of funds. Little state intervention at this point, unless you are a big screw-up, then you will have the State up to it's eye balls in your case. The hospital must ensure you are competent to the state. Otherwise, guy's that walk in suits and ties and have a J.D. will have a feast and the hospital will loose its funds, accreditation and probably will end up being an apartment complex. I know some states that let you do residency in it but won't license you.

Licensing, requires all of the above plus completion of a training period that varies from 2-5 years depending on specialty. States have the last say. You may have done residency at Mayo clinic, and if the State you are applying deems the school you graduated from no-good, you are done for in that state. Also you better have a clean criminal record, nothing pending, in some states, not even civil cases. Different states have different rules, we know about California, Texas, Oregon, Indiana, etc. More technicalities than this, I tried to keep it as simple as possible.

Accreditation, a government body recognizes the degrees of an institution as totally valid and equal to those offered in such jurisdiction. An accrediting body, like the Middle States of Colleges and Universities, for example, pays a visit to the school, evaluates it in and out (everything, facilities, finances, professorship qualifications, etc. you name it they do it) and renders a decision to accredit it, meaning it has a high standard or and acceptable standard of education. Meets or exceeds, deficiencies, they can conditionally accredit your school until improvements are done, or simply say, no. But they will tell you why you failed to get accredited. LCME schools. California does this (site visits)to all so called pseudo-American offshore medical schools, (Ross, AUC, St. Georges, and almost everyone in the Caribbean). To State (or Government)sponsored schools, they normally go through diplomatic protocol and most of the times, accept the degree since it is assumed the foreing government has certain quality control processes in place to ensure the quality of education. In other words, it is not a cash cow. Texas is doing the same thing, I need to verify this.

Recognition, meaning that a jurisdiction knows about your school through another governmental body or an evaluation agency such as IMED-FAIMER, ECFMG, WHO. Almost any school can get this, as long as the school has a valid charter (pay its dues) there is no quality control, or very little if any, or it is not guaranteed. Reason why you have so many private medical schools in the Caribbean and other places around the Globe.


Max


THIS internet med school is not going away,,fact,,my buddy is starting a residency and is in it now,,since there is so much ** here I prefer to keep it on the low down for now but,,I am considering attending this school online and doing my rounds in the northeast area,,its who you know sometimes not what you know,,,most med students buy cheat sheets and video lessons now many don t even attend class,,,go track them and see what they miss,,would you rather have an md who cheated thru school,,I would imagine that should be easier to track,,nothing wrong with obtaining your goals anyway you can,,nothing!! good luck for all taking that risk,,,most things invented or new paths were people who took risks in life and chances,,,go with the masses and you will never go farther than them,,,be different,,I am witnessing this myself with by friend in residency and will get a temp license this time next year plus food and 40k yr,,,so talk is cheap but I know and am real close to trying this myself,,,







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