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nz_md
11-28-2004, 11:57 PM
WHat do the students at ST. Chris think of their med school and what should be done...? I'm curious, because I was interested in coming to this med school until i read a recent visit report from www.aaimg.com currently.....PLease see the attachment below and go to the website for more information regarding your school.

Wish everyone the BEST.



"St. Christopher University
Kigezi International
Medical College of London
London Medical College
Since 1996, the United Kingdom has become a site of convenience for new medical schools chartered in other countries. The medical school promoters obtain a World Health Organization listing but have little to no presence in the country. They rent offices and a few classrooms at local colleges in the U.K and operate a “campus” and program leading to the Doctor of Medicine degree. Cambridge, England, is an ancient university town and home to many prestigious British colleges that was once home to three such schools: Grace University (chartered in the Caribbean then Central America), St. Christopher (chartered in Senegal) and Kigezi (chartered in Uganda) all have had a “campus” there. As the story goes, the promoters of St. Christopher and Kigezi got their start as students and faculty at Grace. The recent site visit shows only Kigezi remaining in Cambridge. St. Christopher now rents facilities at the Polytechnic University in Luton and Grace has departed to Belize, where it actually holds a charter.

Recently, two new schools catering to U.S. citizens have appeared in London. The Medical College of London was started by a former administrator at St. Christopher and claims to exist through a relationship with the College of Medicine and Health Sciences, on the small island of St. Lucia. The World Health Organization shows a listing for this name through December 2001. There is no facility bearing this name on St. Lucia and the island government is not familiar with the school. Enter London Medical College advertising an M.D. by distance learning on the web site of International University of the Health Sciences. The relationship appears short lived as London Medical College appears to have terminated the relationship as of June 3, 2003.

St. Christopher University School of Medicine,
Luton, England, 2000
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,d,f,g
Section II b,c,e,f,g,j,k,l
Section III a,b,c,d,f,h,I,k
Section IV c, d,f,g,
Section V b,c,d,e,f,h,j,k,l,m,n
Section VI a,b,c,d,e,f,g,I,j
Section VII b,e,f,
Section VIII e

St. Christopher has given up the more prestigious environs of Cambridge and moved its operation to the more mundane campus of Luton University, just north of London. Other than downscaling the location, little has changed about this operation. The labs and classrooms are a few rented rooms from the local university and the bulk of the faculty are undergraduate Luton faculty moonlighting or unemployed M.D.’s from former British colonies who are unable to pass the PLAB or practice in the U.K. There are a few Ph.D.’s that are both students and teachers. There are a large number of transfer students from the Dominican Republic and other Caribbean schools, many with a history of failures. The operation in Senegal is virtually non-existent; a call to the Senegal “office” is answered by a local lady with limited English who cannot name any local faculty, or students or describe any teaching activities at the hospital. Although this school only opened in 2000, it advertises US clerkships in 72 “Greenbook” hospitals and board passing rates of 100% in 2000 and 82% in 2001. This type of advertising is not surprising since the promoter is a graduate and former vice dean of Grace University who never completed postgraduate training. St Christopher had a fiscal and credential relationship with the disastrous St. John's University School of Medicine, closed by the Attorney General of Oregon. See http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm "


sited from: www.aaimg.com

oldquack
11-29-2004, 07:42 AM
Afraid you have to ignore that site - some bits have some basis on fact in the past - but the words are so twisted - it is a hidden form of recruitment by a couple of carrabean schools.

St Chris is by no means perfect, but you will get a better idea of what is the real strength and weaknesses by reading the discussion forums here. Again people tend to be in two camps - the truth is somewhere in the middle.

It is not the best choice as not as established as some and some questions in a couple of states re licensing which will not be resolved for a few years as school 2 new to know if problems really exist - need some licensed graduates first. It is however getting better as more students arrive and this means more money is available for reinvestment

But it is probably one off the better choices after STG, ROSS, AUC - which are more established schools with proven track records.

stephew
11-29-2004, 08:08 AM
aaimg is not an offical body. their recommendation or condemnation holds as much weight as yours, mine our my little brothers. The issues raised by the aaimg may or may not be worthy of investigation (just like anything i you or my little brother says may be), but that is a separate issue.

OLDPRO
11-29-2004, 08:54 AM
Both web sites refer to the old St. Chris. The Current school was reformed to what it is now. The name was changed and there never has been an affiliation with St. John's. That was a missunderstanding. This subject has been brought up before and reviewed to death on this forum.
The moderator should close this thread and refer to the old one, PLEASE.

:?

nz_md
11-29-2004, 11:29 AM
Pls. refer me to the past forums where this is discussed.

Thanks in advance.

ansgenius
11-29-2004, 12:05 PM
Just use the search function. There's a little button under the valuemd banner that says "search". Use it and you can find the many threads, not just in this section, where you can read about how bogus the aaimg is.

Skipper
11-29-2004, 12:57 PM
what you have to ask when you are looking at foreign schools is the following

how many fully licensed grads (not just in residency) does the school have?

try to find the grads on the internet.....

i doubt you can find any for st chris

the skipper

bts4202
11-29-2004, 05:23 PM
what you have to ask when you are looking at foreign schools is the following

how many fully licensed grads (not just in residency) does the school have?

try to find the grads on the internet.....

i doubt you can find any for st chris

the skipper

That is not the best advice actually. There is no ONE factor that trumps all others. I suggest that pre-meds take the advice of someone who has been through the whole process already and become very successfull, such as:

http://www.valuemd.com/sutra132432.html&highlight=licensed#132432


folks, please do your colleages a favor and stop refering to schools as the big whatever. Rememebr when you were a premed? What sort of info did you want bottom line? Whatever it took to make an intelligent decision. Please, give others the same, wont you? How can you look away?

Premeds: consider these things
1) pass rates on usmle
2)% who get to the usmle with their class and dont decel, drop out or fail
3)can you get licensed in the states youre likely interested in? I couldnt care less about california but many do
4) can you get the residency you want from there? No not alls chools are equal. Ortho is do-able from some more than others. Bottom line. but do you want to do something like ortho, or something like FP? or not sure
5)the consider cost/lifestyle on island/etc
Paying more may not be worth it if you find a school that meets requirments 1-4 for you. Or going to a prettier island. Are you looking for a competitive residency in texas? Better be careful then.
Please, copy cut and paste this or link it if you must, but for the love of all things good and right in this world, please dont give stundets lists of the big whatever. LEt them decide and know why they are chosing these places.

_________________
Steph
SGUSOM '99
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Sidney Kimmel Cancer Center
Chief Resident of Radiation Oncology '04

nz_md
11-29-2004, 06:06 PM
if there is no ONE factor, and since your represent St. Chris....I can not find any of the answers to listed questions that you quoted for PREMEDS...if you can tell me where they are exactly I would like to compare the stats with other schools.

Seriously wanting to view the answers to the questions.


Thanks in advance.




what you have to ask when you are looking at foreign schools is the following

how many fully licensed grads (not just in residency) does the school have?

try to find the grads on the internet.....

i doubt you can find any for st chris

the skipper

That is not the best advice actually. There is no ONE factor that trumps all others. I suggest that pre-meds take the advice of someone who has been through the whole process already and become very successfull, such as:

http://www.valuemd.com/sutra132432.html&highlight=licensed#132432


folks, please do your colleages a favor and stop refering to schools as the big whatever. Rememebr when you were a premed? What sort of info did you want bottom line? Whatever it took to make an intelligent decision. Please, give others the same, wont you? How can you look away?

Premeds: consider these things
1) pass rates on usmle
2)% who get to the usmle with their class and dont decel, drop out or fail
3)can you get licensed in the states youre likely interested in? I couldnt care less about california but many do
4) can you get the residency you want from there? No not alls chools are equal. Ortho is do-able from some more than others. Bottom line. but do you want to do something like ortho, or something like FP? or not sure
5)the consider cost/lifestyle on island/etc
Paying more may not be worth it if you find a school that meets requirments 1-4 for you. Or going to a prettier island. Are you looking for a competitive residency in texas? Better be careful then.
Please, copy cut and paste this or link it if you must, but for the love of all things good and right in this world, please dont give stundets lists of the big whatever. LEt them decide and know why they are chosing these places.

_________________
Steph
SGUSOM '99
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Sidney Kimmel Cancer Center
Chief Resident of Radiation Oncology '04

nz_md
11-29-2004, 06:08 PM
my post is to:

"BTS4202
St. Christopher's COM
3rd Year
http://www.mdparadise.com
Moderator - St. Christopher's Forum

"If there really is a God, He has a lot of explaining to do"
- Dennis Leary"

bts4202
11-30-2004, 04:34 PM
Firstly, I just want to clarify something, I do not represent St. Christopher's. I repesent myself and my opinions only.

Reagrding the info you need, you can find some of it on this website, but i suggest that you call teh school and get direct info from them. That is the only official info you can get.

AUCMD2006
11-30-2004, 05:17 PM
1) pass rates on usmle
apparently SC has a 100% pass rate which beats teh US schools by far. Maybe they should get data from more than the people who passed :twisted:

2)% who get to the usmle with their class and dont decel, drop out or fail
won't say

3)can you get licensed in the states youre likely interested in? I couldnt care less about california but many do
none until someone does it. they have grads applying now so the list will start soon

4) can you get the residency you want from there? No not alls chools are equal. Ortho is do-able from some more than others. Bottom line. but do you want to do something like ortho, or something like FP? or not sure
they have residents

5)the consider cost/lifestyle on island/etc
dollar is weak in uk, everything is pretty much 2x whatver you pay at home plus that great europe sized tax to pay for free healthcare

Paying more may not be worth it if you find a school that meets requirments 1-4 for you. Or going to a prettier island. Are you looking for a competitive residency in texas? Better be careful then.


man i know so much rumors and propaganda spilled by the admin i feel as if i was a student there

stchrisrep
11-30-2004, 08:07 PM
WHat do the students at ST. Chris think of their med school and what should be done...? I'm curious, because I was interested in coming to this med school until i read a recent visit report from www.aaimg.com currently.....PLease see the attachment below and go to the website for more information regarding your school.


The AAIMG is not a legitimate organization approved by the U.S. Department of Education. Please read these old posts in the archives.

http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic10425.html

http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic14673.html

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/accreditation.html

studentMD
12-01-2004, 05:29 PM
1) pass rates on usmle
apparently SC has a 100% pass rate which beats teh US schools by far. Maybe they should get data from more than the people who passed

well this obviously not true.. i have rotated with st chris students a yr ago) that had not passed.. and actually still have not passed as of yesterday when i last spoke to em

only way to make this into a true statement is if they are trying to imply that all students eventually pass after multiple attempts (some on first attempt some on 4rth etc..) ..

maybe the ones that failed dont really count.. after all u obviously cant include em in the pass rate cuz they didnt pass.. :roll:

im sure st chris has a more creative explanation.. do they honestly claim to have a 100% pass rate? i havent had time to look at their website recently...thats so ridiculous if thats true..

drzed
12-01-2004, 07:38 PM
im sure st chris has a more creative explanation.. do they honestly claim to have a 100% pass rate? i havent had time to look at their website recently...thats so ridiculous if thats true..

During my time looking into, and subsequently attending St. Chris, I have not seen the website or heard the admin claim a 100% USMLE pass rate. I think its listed as 92% on the website (which we all know is a dated 'stat').

Apparently, students have not been performing so well on the Step 1 as of late, so they've been implementing measures to work that out...

d.deferens
12-01-2004, 08:12 PM
wassup everybody knows that english med school rocks compared 2 the carribean i mean they do way better on tests they have their own tests too there

studentMD
12-01-2004, 08:56 PM
im sure st chris has a more creative explanation.. do they honestly claim to have a 100% pass rate? i havent had time to look at their website recently...thats so ridiculous if thats true..

During my time looking into, and subsequently attending St. Chris, I have not seen the website or heard the admin claim a 100% USMLE pass rate. I think its listed as 92% on the website (which we all know is a dated 'stat').

Apparently, students have not been performing so well on the Step 1 as of late, so they've been implementing measures to work that out...


i noticed something about the kaplan live prep for step 1 in the UK on the st chris site..
thats a good start.. im sure it will help several ppl..
is it part of a 5th semester step 1 review curriculum or is it something optional ppl can choose to pay for and take if the want to?

studentMD
12-01-2004, 08:59 PM
wassup everybody knows that english med school rocks compared 2 the carribean i mean they do way better on tests they have their own tests too there

fair enough, english med schools rock compared to caribbean med schools..

st chris however is neither english nor caribbean.. its african...

stchrisrep
12-02-2004, 02:22 PM
is it part of a 5th semester step 1 review curriculum or is it something optional ppl can choose to pay for and take if the want to?


It replaces the Princeton Review course that was offered during the 5th semester.

studentMD
12-02-2004, 03:19 PM
is it part of a 5th semester step 1 review curriculum or is it something optional ppl can choose to pay for and take if the want to?


It replaces the Princeton Review course that was offered during the 5th semester.


right..
but my question was more in regards to .. does EVERYONE participate in it.. in that is it a part of the regular curriculum...

or is it OPTIONAL.. and ppl pay extra to take the review course over and above 5th semester... meaning that its not mandatory part of daily classroom lectures..... not everyone takes it .. etc...

do u have to pay kaplan additional tuition to be a part of the live lecture prep....

get what im saying??.. thats more along the lines of what i was asking..

AUCMD2006
12-02-2004, 03:56 PM
its been up and down, they claimed a 100% in 2000 and 82% in 2002 so maybe the current one is 92% (from memory) i'm sure az can give you the address of the web archive service where it is on the web page....the first time they quoted a pass rate it was also quoted as a "UMSLE" pass rate by the way :lol:

students there say its been improving so gotta give em credit for sticking it out this far and helping the college grow. i think that if there is a problem with the charter its still salvageable by moving the college to its 'main' campus. they can still cater to US students but put a different marketing spin on it. after all how many of us have said we want to help the third world this way you study medicine with an emphasis on the USMLE help out senegal and maybe do 5th semester in the states as a review course.....

the amount of work one puts into this still amazes me ragrdless of school and it is sad that burocrats make the final decision on who gets to work where but i guess it has to be controlled somehow or they'd be a massive influx of physicians from all over the world.....

studentMD
12-02-2004, 04:20 PM
the amount of work one puts into this still amazes me ragrdless of school and it is sad that burocrats make the final decision on who gets to work where but i guess it has to be controlled somehow or they'd be a massive influx of physicians from all over the world.....

right... and measures need ot be in place such that there isnt a massive influx of UNQUALIFIED physicians.. regardless of where they went to school.. it all boils down to drawing the line to prevent influx from so called "diploma mills"

stchrisrep
12-03-2004, 08:38 AM
right..
but my question was more in regards to .. does EVERYONE participate in it.. in that is it a part of the regular curriculum...

or is it OPTIONAL.. and ppl pay extra to take the review course over and above 5th semester... meaning that its not mandatory part of daily classroom lectures..... not everyone takes it .. etc...

do u have to pay additional tuition to be a part of the live lecture prep....

get what im saying??.. thats more along the lines of what i was asking..


During our time, the Princeton Review was part of the curriculum.
So, I'm assuming that it will be the same for you. Most of my class did
not pay extra fees. It was included. It's best if you ask the admin in
Luton since this is relatively new. I hear the public is allowed to join but
they have to pay a separate fee.

studentMD
12-03-2004, 01:36 PM
During our time, the Princeton Review was part of the curriculum.
So, I'm assuming that it will be the same for you. Most of my class did
not pay extra fees. It was included. It's best if you ask the admin in
Luton since this is relatively new. I hear the public is allowed to join but
they have to pay a separate fee.

not at st chris..im done medschool in 8 days.. so doesnt pertain to me..but im more curious than anything..

its definately a step in the right direction if st chris is offering a kap step 1 live lecture.. especially if there is no extra cost involved..

anyone with any info share it.. ie.. kap profs same from the american live lecture course (likes of goljan, hanson, etc..) who fly in for a week to their respective lectures.. or is it a separate UK faculty?

and as far as "public allowed to join" ... can st chris facilities accomodate additional individuals? will it affect the learning experience of students that are actually enrolled at st chris.. financially of course it makes sense to let any random person thats not a st chris student pay to take the course (extra $$$ for the school) but is that really in the best interest of st chris students that have paid tuition since first semester and then they get to 5th and have an influx of non students they have to share not only facilities with but also professors? i think that would be rather distracting, prof now has to divide his or her time with more individuals over and above the regular st chris class... definately does not seem fair to the current students.

drzed
12-03-2004, 02:34 PM
and as far as "public allowed to join" ... can st chris facilities accomodate additional individuals? will it affect the learning experience of students that are actually enrolled at st chris.. financially of course it makes sense to let any random person thats not a st chris student pay to take the course (extra $$$ for the school) but is that really in the best interest of st chris students that have paid tuition since first semester and then they get to 5th and have an influx of non students they have to share not only facilities with but also professors? i think that would be rather distracting, prof now has to divide his or her time with more individuals over and above the regular st chris class... definately does not seem fair to the current students.

I'm certain the admin would not allow a MASS INFLUX of non-St Chris students into the Kaplan lectures. As long as space permits, there's nothing wrong with a few non-St Chris students joining in and occupying the free spaces in the classroom.

Cheers,

bts4202
12-03-2004, 02:38 PM
The St. Chris students who enter the Kaplan live lecture do not have to pay anything in addition to their normal semesterly tuition. The proffessors are all US lecturers that Kaplan flies over for the program.

NON-St Chris students entering the Kaplan review course do not pay St. Chris, they pay kaplan directly. St. Chris is the venue for the program that is for us, but not exclusively for us.

studentMD
12-03-2004, 07:06 PM
sounds promising

microphage
12-03-2004, 10:16 PM
The St. Chris students who enter the Kaplan live lecture do not have to pay anything in addition to their normal semesterly tuition. The proffessors are all US lecturers that Kaplan flies over for the program.


This is strange as stchrisrep stated:


This course offers a high-yield, structured content review presented by our expert medical faculty at St. Christopher's College of Medicine in Luton, Bedfordshire, UK.

http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic25782.html

OLDPRO
12-03-2004, 10:55 PM
Maybe he made a mistake in the first post? So what? Are you going to attend? :?:

microphage
12-03-2004, 11:28 PM
Maybe he made a mistake in the first post? So what? Are you going to attend? :?:

chill dude.

AUCMD2006
12-04-2004, 08:05 AM
they use to pseudo claim cambridge faculty as their own why not dr goljan or trevor? :lol:

studentMD
12-04-2004, 10:22 AM
The St. Chris students who enter the Kaplan live lecture do not have to pay anything in addition to their normal semesterly tuition. The proffessors are all US lecturers that Kaplan flies over for the program.



This is strange as stchrisrep stated:
Quote:

This course offers a high-yield, structured content review presented by our expert medical faculty at St. Christopher's College of Medicine in Luton, Bedfordshire, UK.


http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic25782.html

here we go again... :roll: so which is it? is it actual KAPLAN live prep.. or is it their material as presented by the expert faculty at St. Chris?

drzed
12-04-2004, 11:40 AM
This is strange as stchrisrep stated:
Quote:

This course offers a high-yield, structured content review presented by our expert medical faculty at St. Christopher's College of Medicine in Luton, Bedfordshire, UK.


http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic25782.html

here we go again... :roll: so which is it? is it actual live prep.. or is it their material as presented by the expert faculty at St. Chris?

If you're SO interested in finding out details about this course, why don't you put forth some effort and contact Kaplan yourself?

I'm not sure why the St. Chris rep didn't quote the text he/she used from the Kaplan website, but regardless, here's the direct link: http://www.kaptest.com/repository/templates/ArticleInitDroplet.jhtml?_relPath=/repository/content/London/Medical/USMLE/LD_step1_liveprep.html

As already mentioned previously, the lecturers for the Kaplan LivePrep program at St. Christopher's College of Medicine are KAPLAN lecturers...


This course offers a high-yield, structured content review presented by our expert medical faculty at St. Christopher's College of Medicine in Luton, Bedfordshire, UK.

ansgenius
12-04-2004, 12:20 PM
All the lecturers flew in from Chicago Kaplan Center. St Chris rep is mistaken on this point, still no need to jump down his/her throat. The director from the center is also present, I forget his name. He taught the behavioral science review. If you all are so skeptical, one of you can fly out to Luton and come check it out.

bts4202
12-04-2004, 12:30 PM
stchrisrep quoted the Kaplan website. It is not that hard to figure out. Some people are waaaayy to nit-pitky :rockthro:

http://www.kaptest.com/repository/templates/ArticleInitDroplet.jhtml?_relPath=/repository/content/London/Medical/USMLE/LD_step1_liveprep.html

microphage
12-04-2004, 12:33 PM
All the lecturers flew in from Chicago <a target=new href=http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=c97WUMRO5hY&offerid=47491.10002441&type=3 &subid=0 >Kaplan</a><IMG border=0 width=1 height=1 src=http://ad.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/show?id=c97WUMRO5hY&bids=47491.10002441&type=3&sub id=0 > Center. St Chris rep is mistaken on this point, still no need to jump down his/her throat. The director from the center is also present, I forget his name. He taught the behavioral science review. If you all are so skeptical, one of you can fly out to Luton and come check it out.

Nobody's skeptical, it's just that there was two different pieces of info out one... Just needed to clarify it, that's it.

You guys need to chill out, it's almost Christmas :D

ansgenius
12-04-2004, 05:07 PM
Xmas is the worst time of year. I'm gonna leave something for jolly ol' St Nick all over my final exams.

wolfvgang22
12-04-2004, 05:20 PM
Xmas is the worst time of year. I'm gonna leave something for jolly ol' St Nick all over my final exams.
I hope you have a better holiday season....it's a tough time of year for me, also.

I also hope you are finding the info you are looking for regarding St. Chris. If you aren't that may be an important piece of info all by itself.

Good luck!

studentMD
12-06-2004, 09:35 PM
stchrisrep quoted the <a target=new href=http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=c97WUMRO5hY&offerid=47491.10002441&type=3 &subid=0 >Kaplan</a><IMG border=0 width=1 height=1 src=http://ad.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/show?id=c97WUMRO5hY&bids=47491.10002441&type=3&sub id=0 > website. It is not that hard to figure out. Some people are waaaayy to nit-pitky :rockthro:

http://www.kaptest.com/repository/templates/ArticleInitDroplet.jhtml?_relPath=/repository/content/London/Medical/USMLE/LD_step1_liveprep.html


as i recall i said it was a good thing st chris has kaplan in place, and its a POSITIVE thing,
silly me thought if maybe the details about the review course were available on the forum it would actually help prospective students make their decision.. having kaplan there is an ASSET...

and if u all have details you should share them, but if ur not sure then state that, can always say from what i know, or this is what i heard... instead of stating things for a "fact".. i think it really hurts this forum that people (no one in particular) make statements here and imply that they are "facts" in not so many words.. no one but the owner/admin knows really whats going on..

it was such a benign question that would have hopefully elicited some sort of positive information about st chris, but even this has to degenerate..

anywyas.. its good u guys have kaplan.. whatever form its in.. something to definately take advantage of when u guys are in 5th semester.. (for those that are still in basics) and something to consider for those out there that are seriously considering attending st chris

stchrisrep
12-07-2004, 06:57 PM
Details of the Kaplan program at St. Chris can be found here:

http://www.kaptest.com/repository/templates/ArticleInitDroplet.jhtml?_relPath=/repository/content/London/Medical/USMLE/LD_step1_liveprep.html

This is Kaplan's U.K. site.







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