PDA

View Full Version : PLAB?



michal
10-29-2004, 03:55 AM
Ccn someone please tell me if there are any st.chris grads who did the PLAB and are now working with limited registration and if so can I get in touch with them.
Id also like to know if students do thier clinicals in the UK?thanx!

stchrisrep
10-30-2004, 12:54 AM
Ccn someone please tell me if there are any st.chris grads who did the PLAB and are now working with limited registration and if so can I get in touch with them.



There was an older gentleman from MUA who wanted to go through the process. I do not know what he is doing now. I have lost touch with him.




Id also like to know if students do thier clinicals in the UK?thanx!


Yes, the college has worked with over 10 different NHS hospitals before.

Most U.K. hospitals expect an external assessment such as a USMLE
Step I score.

katm
11-01-2004, 12:55 PM
Ccn someone please tell me if there are any st.chris grads who did the PLAB and are now working with limited registration and if so can I get in touch with them.
Id also like to know if students do thier clinicals in the UK?thanx!

My understanding is that St Chris students do all their clinicals in the US -- I don't know if there is an option to do them in the UK.

As for taking the PLAB and getting licensed in the UK, I STRONGLY urge you to contact the Gereral Medical Council (of the UK) about this. They can be reached at:

e-mail: [email protected]

phone: +44 845 3573 456

The reason I am advising you to do this is because I have a friend who claims to have called them and to have been told that graduates of the three foreign schools operating in the UK (St Chris, Kigezi, and London Medical College, I believe) are NO LONGER eligible to sit for the PLAB. I don't know how true this is, but you should definitely check it out if you plan on practicing in the UK.

[/u]

bts4202
11-01-2004, 01:59 PM
Ccn someone please tell me if there are any st.chris grads who did the PLAB and are now working with limited registration and if so can I get in touch with them.
Id also like to know if students do thier clinicals in the UK?thanx!

My understanding is that St Chris students do all their clinicals in the US -- I don't know if there is an option to do them in the UK.

As for taking the PLAB and getting licensed in the UK, I STRONGLY urge you to contact the Gereral Medical Council (of the UK) about this. They can be reached at:

e-mail: [email protected]

phone: +44 845 3573 456

The reason I am advising you to do this is because I have a friend who claims to have called them and to have been told that graduates of the three foreign schools operating in the UK (St Chris, Kigezi, and London Medical College, I believe) are NO LONGER eligible to sit for the PLAB. I don't know how true this is, but you should definitely check it out if you plan on practicing in the UK.

[/u]

While I agree that it is definately a good idea to call the GMC, the rumour that the GMC doesn't allow us to practice or take the plab or whatever has been circulating for about a year now and each time people actually do call the GMC, they are told otherwise.

It is always a good idea to confirm information for yourself rather than believe rumours of a friend of a friend told me....

EnoughIsEnough
11-03-2004, 07:56 AM
Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email dated 1 November 2004.

The primary medical qualification from St Christopher's (based in Luton)
awarded by Senegal is not currently accepted as eligibility for the PLAB.
This situation is currently under review and decision should be available on
our website within the next few months.

If you have any further queries please contact us and we will do our best to
help.


Yours sincerely

Megan Gale
Registration and Education Directorate
General Medical Council
Telephone: 0845 357 3456
[email protected]

General Medical Council
St James Building, 79 Oxford Street Manchester. M1 6FQ
Regents Place, 350 Euston Road, London. NW1 3JN
Tel: 0845 357 8001
Fax: 0845 357 9001

azskeptic
11-03-2004, 08:13 AM
Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email dated 1 November 2004.

The primary medical qualification from St Christopher's (based in Luton)
awarded by Senegal is not currently accepted as eligibility for the PLAB.
This situation is currently under review and decision should be available on
our website within the next few months.

If you have any further queries please contact us and we will do our best to
help.


Yours sincerely

Megan Gale
Registration and Education Directorate
General Medical Council
Telephone: 0845 357 3456
[email protected]

General Medical Council
St James Building, 79 Oxford Street Manchester. M1 6FQ
Regents Place, 350 Euston Road, London. NW1 3JN
Tel: 0845 357 8001
Fax: 0845 357 9001

That is serious stuff. BTS, what's happening?

bts4202
11-03-2004, 10:22 AM
I have also written the GMC and gotten a similar response. The full situation is as follows:

The GMC has now put on hold all applications by all the non-UK chartered medical schools in the UK while they review each one thouroughly and make a final decision. As the letter said, the results of the evaluations will be posted on the GMC website in a few short months. St. Christopher's welcomes these evaluations with open arms, since a thourough evaluation by the GMC would show the UK and the world that our school can stand up to the toughest standards. We eagerly look forward to their decision.

azskeptic
11-03-2004, 03:47 PM
I have also written the GMC and gotten a similar response. The full situation is as follows:

The GMC has now put on hold all applications by all the non-UK chartered medical schools in the UK while they review each one thouroughly and make a final decision. As the letter said, the results of the evaluations will be posted on the GMC website in a few short months. St. Christopher's welcomes these evaluations with open arms, since a thourough evaluation by the GMC would show the UK and the world that our school can stand up to the toughest standards. We eagerly look forward to their decision.

BTS, guess it is time to warn those who want to practice in the UK should wait and make sure that St. Chris, and other non-UK chartered schools in the UK student's are allowed to sit for the PLAB?

drzed
11-03-2004, 04:34 PM
...the rumour that the GMC doesn't allow us to practice or take the plab or whatever has been circulating for about a year now and each time people actually do call the GMC, they are told otherwise.

It is always a good idea to confirm information for yourself rather than believe rumours of a friend of a friend told me....



I have also written the GMC and gotten a similar response. The full situation is as follows:

The GMC has now put on hold all applications by all the non-UK chartered medical schools in the UK while they review each one thouroughly and make a final decision...


BTS, guess it is time to warn those who want to practice in the UK should wait and make sure that St. Chris, and other non-UK chartered schools in the UK student's are allowed to sit for the PLAB?

While we're on this topic, I've heard from a few students that we actually had member(s) from the GMC touring the campus over the last couple weeks (?)...so perhaps a decision will be available sooner than a few months.

But I agree with azskeptic, our British students deserve to know such vital information...

stchrisrep
11-03-2004, 09:26 PM
Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email dated 1 November 2004.

The primary medical qualification from St Christopher's (based in Luton)
awarded by Senegal is not currently accepted as eligibility for the PLAB.
This situation is currently under review and decision should be available on
our website within the next few months.

If you have any further queries please contact us and we will do our best to
help.


Yours sincerely

Megan Gale
Registration and Education Directorate
General Medical Council
Telephone: 0845 357 3456
[email protected]

General Medical Council
St James Building, 79 Oxford Street Manchester. M1 6FQ
Regents Place, 350 Euston Road, London. NW1 3JN
Tel: 0845 357 8001
Fax: 0845 357 9001

That is serious stuff. BTS, what's happening?

If I misled anyone on this, I apologize.

According to our managing director, he said that we qualify for limited registration with the GMC. This is evidenced by the letter posted on the website.

http://www.stchris.edu/licensure.htm

However, it appears that recently the GMC has changed their views about us and is currently reviewing the college. Currently, students are NOT eligible to take the PLAB.

Nebakanezer
11-05-2004, 08:07 AM
Quite a revelation.

My bet is if NY knows about this, we certainly won't meet won't pass inspection. If we can't even be licensed in the country where our campus is located, I highly doubt that they would approve of us.

I wonder if this will dramatically impact a graduates ability to get licensed? I would certainly think that it will.

Is the Managing Director/President/Dean of Basic Sciences/CEO going to hold a meeting with the students to give them an update on our situation? I think it is important that the student body be informed of this development, particularly the ones that wish to practice in the UK.

I guess I should send an e-mail to the Managing Director/CEO and remind them to take that letter down that they have framed in the Student Atrium that says we qualify for limited registration before some prospective student visiting the campus sees it and cries foul.

azskeptic
11-05-2004, 10:27 AM
Quite a revelation.

My bet is if NY knows about this, we certainly won't meet won't pass inspection. If we can't even be licensed in the country where our campus is located, I highly doubt that they would approve of us.

I wonder if this will dramatically impact a graduates ability to get licensed? I would certainly think that it will.

Is the Managing Director/President/Dean of Basic Sciences/CEO going to hold a meeting with the students to give them an update on our situation? I think it is important that the student body be informed of this development, particularly the ones that wish to practice in the UK.

I guess I should send an e-mail to the Managing Director/CEO and remind them to take that letter down that they have framed in the Student Atrium that says we qualify for limited registration before some prospective student visiting the campus sees it and cries foul.

The thing is whether states law says 'ability to license where you study' or where you are chartered.

Picard
11-05-2004, 01:54 PM
I have also written the GMC and gotten a similar response. The full situation is as follows:

The GMC has now put on hold all applications by all the non-UK chartered medical schools in the UK while they review each one thouroughly and make a final decision. As the letter said, the results of the evaluations will be posted on the GMC website in a few short months. St. Christopher's welcomes these evaluations with open arms, since a thourough evaluation by the GMC would show the UK and the world that our school can stand up to the toughest standards. We eagerly look forward to their decision.

I agree that this is certainly possible. But this is also the best case scenario. I think it's only fair to consider the worst case scenario. And the worst case scenario could be that this is the first step to shut down all non-UK medical schools operating in UK without UK charter. Far fetched? No. Think about it, the fact that schools like SC operates in UK without a UK charter must annoy the heck out of established UK medical community... it's only human nature. When Ross tried to open a Wyomin campus, the US medical community went into an uproar and eventually forced Ross to quit (remember it was perfectly legal when Ross started exploring the Wyomin campus)... So, it's not too far fetch to think that the UK may follow a similar path. I'm not saying this is the case, but a reasonable person also need to consider this possibility.

I'm not trying to wish SC harm. But I think it's only fair that when you consider and hope for the best case scenario, you also need to be realistic and consider the worst case scenario. It's only fair to potential and current students... you don't want this to turn into another "we are good to go in 48 states" prediction...

P

Incidentally, that outdated GMC letter is still on the SC website, and SC's official web still states SC grads are eligible for limited registration/PLAB -- Shouldn't these be taken down for now?

neilc
11-05-2004, 02:50 PM
typical. this school always says to expect the best...nothing good yet has come to fruition...still no licensced grads far beyond the time we were all told to expect them...yet, they keep losing ground...a short list of lost perks of st chris:
affiliations with luton and cambridge, ability to sit for the plab, britain looking into validity of the school
relationship with the school in NJ
still not approved in all states

the student population has been growing based on empty promises...i feel bad for all the poor souls that have bought what you are selling there. hopefully it will work out, but all of these sleepless nights will add up.

go to a real school. stay away from this pit. even the owner is hedging his bet by investing in xavier. that alone tells me something....

ValuelessMD
11-05-2004, 04:34 PM
..........

stchrisrep
11-05-2004, 04:44 PM
Quite a revelation.

I guess I should send an e-mail to the Managing Director/CEO and remind them to take that letter down that they have framed in the Student Atrium that says we qualify for limited registration before some prospective student visiting the campus sees it and cries foul.



The admin has no intentions of taking the letter down now.
It appears the GMC has been giving mixed responses in the past.
We're trying to find out what's going on.

stchrisrep
11-05-2004, 04:51 PM
even the owner is hedging his bet by investing in xavier. that alone tells me something....

The director has said many times that they are NOT investing in Xavier.
Xavier had approached St. Chris for help in creating their program because Xavier was impressed with St. Chris's program. The college is doing consulting work for Xavier.

Nebakanezer
11-05-2004, 08:13 PM
Incidentally, that outdated GMC letter is still on the SC website, and SC's official web still states SC grads are eligible for limited registration/PLAB -- Shouldn't these be taken down for now? Definetly need to send an e-mail about that to the Admin, someone will definetly cry foul if that letter is still up on the site...

Nebakanezer
11-05-2004, 08:16 PM
Quite a revelation.

I guess I should send an e-mail to the Managing Director/CEO and remind them to take that letter down that they have framed in the Student Atrium that says we qualify for limited registration before some prospective student visiting the campus sees it and cries foul.



The admin has no intentions of taking the letter down now.
It appears the GMC has been giving mixed responses in the past.
We're trying to find out what's going on. Despite the GMC's "mixed" responses in the past, they seem quite clear now. I certainly hope the admin is taking a calculated risk rather than just a foolish one.

Picard
11-06-2004, 04:42 PM
The admin has no intentions of taking the letter down now.
It appears the GMC has been giving mixed responses in the past.
We're trying to find out what's going on.

How much more clear can GMC be? Are you saying that any SC grads can go and register for PLAB tomorrow? If not, posting of the letter is a FRAUD! Period! Typical of SC admin. The responsible thing to do now is to take down the letter. You can repost it when AND IF (A big IF) GMC makes a decision favorable to SC.

I think the major reason of keeping the letter up has to do with the NY visit. SC is still trying to fool others into thinking all is well in UK. NY law is very clear, if SC grads are not eligible for licensure in UK, it's not eligible for NY state approval. Well, NY ain't stupid.

I will forward a copy of this thread to both GMC and to NY state medical board to inform them of SC's apparent attempt at fraudulent activities... directly from the mouth of "official student representative." Oh, and don't bother trying to delete/modify the posts -- I've saved it already.

P

ValuelessMD
11-07-2004, 12:28 AM
..........

Darlyn3
11-07-2004, 04:19 PM
Dear SC students,

I would like to inform you that the current GMC Issues has already been addressed! I got word some the HIGHER resources, and it has already been addressed. Let's now focus on the NY DOE site visit. Also, let's not add any more flames to what people say here, like I've mentioned before, they will never really know what goes on at SCCM. They say the school is accountable for fraud, etc...... Well the bottom line is, the GMC issue has been taken care of.
Study, exams are on the 15th..... wink

Good luck students!

Kindest Regards,


Darlyn

Picard
11-07-2004, 04:36 PM
What exactly does it mean that the "GMC situation has already been addressed?" Are you saying that GMC has already made a final decision on this issue? Or are you saying that the admin has finally agreed on taking down the erroneous information provided by SC? What do you mean by "higher up?" Are these the same "higher ups" that claimed to be good-to-go in 48 states, NJ is "in the bag?" Being vague now only hurts the image of SC.

As to what valuelessmd has mentioned -- I would say that being disallowed for PLAB/Limited Registration ranks right up there with the failed partnership in NJ, wouldn't you? In fact, it could be argued that it's even more serious than the failed partnership in NJ because this may be existance-threatening in the worst case scenario. This is NOT some "administrative error."

And, you have an "official student representative" coming onto this thread dishing out official sounding stance of "No intention of taking down the letter"... that's irresponsible. If this is not the official school stance, this "stchrisrep" should come out and clarify who he/she really is and whether or not he/she speaks for the school admin. On the other hand, you have students who have not even matriculated into the school claiming to have spoken to "higher ups" and know tha the situation is "already addressed"... All these sneaking around/backdoor information is hurting the school. Just look at your neighboring school down the street... the outsiders saw that coming a mile away while students where busy defending a sinking ship. Learn from their mistake and be honest.

P

azskeptic
11-07-2004, 04:36 PM
Dear SC students,

I would like to inform you that the current GMC Issues has already been addressed! I got word some the HIGHER resources, and it has already been addressed. Let's now focus on the NY DOE site visit. Also, let's not add any more flames to what people say here, like I've mentioned before, they will never really know what goes on at SCCM. They say the school is accountable for fraud, etc...... Well the bottom line is, the GMC issue has been taken care of.
Study, exams are on the 15th..... wink

Good luck students!

Kindest Regards,



Darlyn


There you go.......another question answered.

ValuelessMD
11-07-2004, 04:49 PM
..........

ValuelessMD
11-07-2004, 04:56 PM
..........

Darlyn3
11-07-2004, 05:32 PM
Picard,
How are you doing?
Well to answer you question.... I don't speak to the administration to find out what's going on, I speak to like I said before.... "Higher Resources" your a smart guy, you can figure it out. It seems as though you guys are really trying to bring down SC, maybe you shouldn't try so hard, if it's meant to happen it'll happen on it's own, don't you think? Just like our neighboring school, right? Whether you wrote an e-mail or expedited a message to both the GMC and the NY DOE or not, that's good for you. Maybe they should hire you to investigate every school! I'll see what I can get you. My previous post was geared to SC students and SC students only, sorry you missed that. Futher, like I said the issue has already been taken care, and whether or not the letter has been brought down, I don't know I'll check and inform you if it makes you happy. But the issue has been address, if any SC students would like to know, please feel free to contact me through PM, I'll send you the latest!
Again, maybe you shouldn't invest all of your time in trying to bring SC down, what has any of our students and much more our school ever done to you? I can't think of one thing.... can you? Like I said earlier, I'll see if they're hiring and I'll let you know.


Wink


D

idaman911
11-07-2004, 05:40 PM
The letter has been taken down today, my wife checked and there is no longer a letter from the GMC. whats up with that?

AUCMD2006
11-07-2004, 07:40 PM
missing the point. these boards aren't for the sole use of SC students they are to inform potential students. so if the only way a potential student can get info like this is by becoming a paying member with direct access to higher ups then somethings wrong...then again your higher ups have been wrong time and time again haven't they?

Darlyn3
11-07-2004, 08:01 PM
missing the point. these boards aren't for the sole use of SC students they are to inform potential students. so if the only way a potential student can get info like this is by becoming a paying member with direct access to higher ups then somethings wrong...then again your higher ups have been wrong time and time again haven't they?

Let's just leave it at that!

Nebakanezer
11-08-2004, 04:42 AM
I think it would be in all potential students best interests to ignore just about everything that Darlyn3 has to say.

To the best of my knowledge, she hasn't even matriculated here at St. Chris.

Furthermore, anyone aware of her personal background would know that her opinion should rightfully, and quickly be discounted. I would provide more information on this, but I am sure that it would violate the TOS to reveal such personal information about another member without their express permission.

Unlike Darlyn3, I am a 4th semester basic science student here at the St. Chris campus in Luton and I have talked with several members of the administration. However, I am unable to discuss this.

I conjecture that the situation at hand should be completely elucidated in the not too distant future. Until such a time that the situation becomes clear to us all, I suggest everyone sit tight and think positively.

neilc
11-08-2004, 05:57 AM
I think it would be in all potential students best interests to ignore just about everything that Darlyn3 has to say.



i second this motion....

nothing but vague, useless information, basically asking people to ignore facts and trust her, or some mysterious "higher ups". actually, she sounds like she will fit right into the st chris admin. they will probably offer her a job.

some people want so bad to believe in something that they will ignore all evidence, and grasp at the flimsiest straws to maintain that belief.

Darlyn3
11-08-2004, 06:28 AM
I think it would be in all potential students best interests to ignore just about everything that Darlyn3 has to say.



i second this motion....

nothing but vague, useless information, basically asking people to ignore facts and trust her, or some mysterious "higher ups". actually, she sounds like she will fit right into the st chris admin. they will probably offer her a job.

some people want so bad to believe in something that they will ignore all evidence, and grasp at the flimsiest straws to maintain that belief.

Sorry Neilc, not a female.... wink.... try again.

And for InfiniteUNI, that's how much YOU don't know about me. And little childish treats about you posting info about me on this forum really has no affect on me what's so ever. SC bugs you so much, and your attending it, you hate the school, why don't you leave? But that's besides the point. You should look for me..... wink..... Remember I did stop showing up in this forum for some time, I've done lots since then. Look around for me! And if all the prospective students choose to disregard my messages that's absolutely fine with me, contact other students instead, not a problem with me. I am not going to tell you not to listen to these people/students whatever you want to call them, they do make some valuable points on some of their posts, but then again, their other posts are out of this world.
I've never ask for a prospective student to believe me InfiniteUNI, and I never will, that's up to them to do so or not. And NeilC, who knows, I even turned in my application to start work at SC.... we'll see what happens, I'll let you know everything, I promise!

In a week from now, there's supposed to be some information from the GMC that's to be released, let's wait for that.

Take care guys,


D

Nebakanezer
11-08-2004, 07:25 AM
I think it would be in all potential students best interests to ignore just about everything that Darlyn3 has to say.



i second this motion....

nothing but vague, useless information, basically asking people to ignore facts and trust her, or some mysterious "higher ups". actually, she sounds like she will fit right into the st chris admin. they will probably offer her a job.

some people want so bad to believe in something that they will ignore all evidence, and grasp at the flimsiest straws to maintain that belief.
...And little childish treats about you posting info about me on this forum really has no affect on me what's so ever...
You really need a reading comprehension class. If you can find a threat written somewhere on this thread by me, please feel free to point it out as I, and just about anyone else with a smattering of grade school english courses, can't find it.

...Remember I did stop showing up in this forum for some time...
Yes, and if I remember correctly, you said you weren't going to come back? What happened to that?

...I even turned in my application to start work at SC.... we'll see what happens...
At this point, I believe the administration is capable of making the correct decision regarding your application. Having you work for the school is just a PR disaster waiting to happen.

Darlyn3
11-08-2004, 07:55 AM
Furthermore, anyone aware of her personal background would know that her opinion should rightfully, and quickly be discounted. I would provide more information on this, but I am sure that it would violate the TOS to reveal such personal information about another member without their express permission.

InfiniteUNI,
This is what I am talking about... I really don't care whether you post stuff up about me or not, like I said before it really doesn't affect me at all. And about me working at the school, come on it's a joke! Damn, you take everything to the left titty! Wink. I've sent you a message through PM, check it out.
Yes, I did say I wasn't going to come back, can you blame me for doing so? Relax, it's only temp. I didn't mean to insult anyone like the majority of ya'll do but that's besides the point. Check your PM, and let me know if you have any questions.

Take Care,


P.S. Hope you're studying for your exams next week! Good luck by the way.

D

Nebakanezer
11-08-2004, 11:08 AM
Furthermore, anyone aware of her personal background would know that her opinion should rightfully, and quickly be discounted. I would provide more information on this, but I am sure that it would violate the TOS to reveal such personal information about another member without their express permission.

InfiniteUNI,
This is what I am talking about... I really don't care whether you post stuff up about me or not, like I said before it really doesn't affect me at all.

:roll:

Since you obviously don't get it, I will explain. It would be a threat if I said I was going to. However, I said I would, but I can't, therefore I won't. It's quite difficult to threaten someone if this is the case.

Furthermore, discussing someone's past is only a threat if the individual in question actually feels threatened by the potential realization of that action, and the only reason that someone would feel threatened is if they have something they wish to hide. Therefore, if you feel that it was a threat, it demonstrates that you have something to hide. Do you understand now? If I made it any simpler, I would have to break out MS-Paint and draw you a picture.

ansgenius
11-08-2004, 04:54 PM
Can't we all just get along? You two need a timeout. Infinite, you go sit in the corner of the 4th semester room and think about what you've done. Darlyn, you go to the bathroom and wash your mouth out with soap and think about what you've done. If there's another ruckus out of either of you two, I'll have to break out the corporal punishment. This hurts me more than it hurts either of you.

stchrisrep
11-08-2004, 06:33 PM
The letter has been taken down today, my wife checked and there is no longer a letter from the GMC. whats up with that?



We're still working on this. There appears to be some communication problems at the GMC. The GMC was misinformed about our school from a third party and they didn't deal with us directly. We're working with the head of the GMC to resolve the issue and to see why things got out of hand. If we receive an official response, we will post it here.

thethom
11-09-2004, 10:41 AM
It was just announced in class today by the CFO of St Chris that there was a mixup with the GMC. They had somehow gotten us confused with another school. Now that the truth comes out, we ARE able to take the PLAB and do rotations and become lisenced in the UK. Who seems like the irresponsible one now? It is the GMC....St Chris was right all along. I mean how can a national accrediting institution confuse 2 medical schools, seems like there are some incompetent people working for the GMC, either that, or someone (you know who you are!!!) is intentionally supplying them with the WRONG INFORMATION!

bts4202
11-09-2004, 10:45 AM
It was just announced in class today by the CFO of St Chris that there was a mixup with the GMC. They had somehow gotten us confused with another school. Now that the truth comes out, we ARE able to take the PLAB and do rotations and become lisenced in the UK. Who seems like the irresponsible one now? It is the GMC....St Chris was right all along. I mean how can a national accrediting institution confuse 2 medical schools, seems like there are some incompetent people working for the GMC, either that, or someone (you know who you are!!!) is intentionally supplying them with the WRONG INFORMATION!

I have several letters from the GMC as proof of this that have been disseminated. They will be posted up online shortly.

Nebakanezer
11-09-2004, 11:34 AM
It was just announced in class today by the CFO of St Chris that there was a mixup with the GMC. They had somehow gotten us confused with another school. Now that the truth comes out, we ARE able to take the PLAB and do rotations and become lisenced in the UK. Who seems like the irresponsible one now? It is the GMC....St Chris was right all along. I mean how can a national accrediting institution confuse 2 medical schools, seems like there are some incompetent people working for the GMC, either that, or someone (you know who you are!!!) is intentionally supplying them with the WRONG INFORMATION!

I have several letters from the GMC as proof of this that have been disseminated. They will be posted up online shortly.
I can also confirm that this is indeed true. I have seen the letter that was sent by the GMC to the administration of St. Chris indicating that the situation has been resolved in out favor.

I think the task at hand now, if possible, is to find out who tried to torpedo out school on the eve of our inspection by NYS.

Nothing makes my blood boil more than individuals/organizations that fight dirty :evil:

azskeptic
11-09-2004, 11:41 AM
"I have also written the GMC and gotten a similar response. The full situation is as follows:

The GMC has now put on hold all applications by all the non-UK chartered medical schools in the UK while they review each one thouroughly and make a final decision. As the letter said, the results of the evaluations will be posted on the GMC website in a few short months. St. Christopher's welcomes these evaluations with open arms, since a thourough evaluation by the GMC would show the UK and the world that our school can stand up to the toughest standards. We eagerly look forward to their decision."

So what is it.....did they make a mistake or did they decide St. Chris is ok suddenly?

at GMC's website it still says the following:


http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

Approved Medical Schools in the UK

A list of schools offering medical degrees leading to a primary medical qualification and registration with the GMC is listed on our website. Sometimes we get queries about UK based schools, which are under the remit of an overseas university, for example Medical College London and St Christopher’s.

bts4202
11-09-2004, 11:50 AM
at GMC's website it still says the following:


http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

Approved Medical Schools in the UK

A list of schools offering medical degrees leading to a primary medical qualification and registration with the GMC is listed on our website. Sometimes we get queries about UK based schools, which are under the remit of an overseas university, for example Medical College London and St Christopher’s.

OHHH, i finally get it. You actually think that this statement is a negative comment!! This statement is completely neutral. St. chris does not lead to primary UK qualifications, never has and most likely never will. Neither do any other foriegn medical schools that are not a part of the EU for that matter. Heck, even US schools do not lead to PMQ's in the UK. This statement is just to make sure people understand this fact. Something I wholeheartedly agree with. Sorry, i would have explained this to you earlier if I had known that you didn't understand it. However. feel free to keep reposting it like you do, it is important that all prospective students understand that St. Chris is not a UK school.

Darlyn3
11-09-2004, 11:52 AM
Dear Mr. ***********



I can confirm that graduates of St Christopher's are currently eligible to take the PLAB test. As I mentioned on the phone, we are issuing written guidance to our reception and contact centre, I hope this will be out on Friday. However I have authorised them to start responding to individual enquiries as from tomorrow. We will also put some information on our website, this is likely to take a couple of weeks.



Yours sincerely



******* ********* ********
Head of Applications

This is what we know so far.

EnoughIsEnough
11-09-2004, 12:00 PM
/////////////////////

azskeptic
11-09-2004, 12:11 PM
at GMC's website it still says the following:


http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

Approved Medical Schools in the UK

A list of schools offering medical degrees leading to a primary medical qualification and registration with the GMC is listed on our website. Sometimes we get queries about UK based schools, which are under the remit of an overseas university, for example Medical College London and St Christopher’s.

OHHH, i finally get it. You actually think that this statement is a negative comment!! This statement is completely neutral. St. chris does not lead to primary UK qualifications, never has and most likely never will. Neither do any other foriegn medical schools that are not a part of the EU for that matter. Heck, even US schools do not lead to PMQ's in the UK. This statement is just to make sure people understand this fact. Something I wholeheartedly agree with. Sorry, i would have explained this to you earlier if I had known that you didn't understand it. However. feel free to keep reposting it like you do, it is important that all prospective students understand that St. Chris is not a UK school.

Yes, being mentioned with Medical College of London is not a good neighborhood to be placed in. You've read their other posting on MCL I presume.

azskeptic

Nebakanezer
11-09-2004, 12:26 PM
Dear Mr. ***********



I can confirm that graduates of St Christopher's are currently eligible to take the PLAB test. As I mentioned on the phone, we are issuing written guidance to our reception and contact centre, I hope this will be out on Friday. However I have authorised them to start responding to individual enquiries as from tomorrow. We will also put some information on our website, this is likely to take a couple of weeks.



Yours sincerely



****** ******
Head of Applications

This is what we know so far. Yes, this is the letter that was received today by the administration at St. Christopher's from the GMC.

drzed
11-09-2004, 12:54 PM
Dear Mr. ***********



I can confirm that graduates of St Christopher's are currently eligible to take the PLAB test. As I mentioned on the phone, we are issuing written guidance to our reception and contact centre, I hope this will be out on Friday. However I have authorised them to start responding to individual enquiries as from tomorrow. We will also put some information on our website, this is likely to take a couple of weeks.



Yours sincerely



*****
Head of Applications

This is what we know so far.

Happy to hear that this issued was resolved so quickly...

ansgenius
11-09-2004, 02:08 PM
Holy crap, there's actual unity among St Chris students. I never thought I'd see the day when this would happen. It would appear as though some apologies are owed, but hey since that is never going to happen, I'll just end it with a "yay, St Chris!"

bts4202
11-09-2004, 03:21 PM
Holy crap, there's actual unity among St Chris students. I never thought I'd see the day when this would happen. It would appear as though some apologies are owed, but hey since that is never going to happen, I'll just end it with a "yay, St Chris!"

It shows us the power of progress. We have had GMC members examining our campus for weeks and to now have the GMC hold meetings and say without a doubt that we are eligible for the PLAB and limited licensure says quite a bit to me. It is not a UK charter, but it definately shows that the GMC approves of the quality of our program.

I feel confident that this signals a shift in the trend of negative attention we had been recieving and will now help lead St. Christopher's down the road to fulfill the promise we all believed in when we joined this school.

We have many more hurdles ahead, but to quote a famous saying.."the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"

stchrisrep
11-09-2004, 04:21 PM
Dear Mr. ***********



I can confirm that graduates of St Christopher's are currently eligible to take the PLAB test. As I mentioned on the phone, we are issuing written guidance to our reception and contact centre, I hope this will be out on Friday. However I have authorised them to start responding to individual enquiries as from tomorrow. We will also put some information on our website, this is likely to take a couple of weeks.



Yours sincerely



****** ******
Head of Applications


I just wanted to confirm that this letter is valid. It appears the GMC made a mistake last week and changed our status because some third party had misinformed them about us. Students from our college is still and has always been eligible for limited registration with the GMC.

http://www.stchris.edu/files/gmc_recognition.pdf

Picard
11-09-2004, 05:32 PM
Congratulations.

Glad it work out for the best.

P

Soon2beAdoc
11-09-2004, 10:35 PM
"I have also written the GMC and gotten a similar response. The full situation is as follows:

The GMC has now put on hold all applications by all the non-UK chartered medical schools in the UK while they review each one thouroughly and make a final decision. As the letter said, the results of the evaluations will be posted on the GMC website in a few short months. St. Christopher's welcomes these evaluations with open arms, since a thourough evaluation by the GMC would show the UK and the world that our school can stand up to the toughest standards. We eagerly look forward to their decision."

So what is it.....did they make a mistake or did they decide St. Chris is ok suddenly?

at GMC's website it still says the following:


http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

Approved Medical Schools in the UK

A list of schools offering medical degrees leading to a primary medical qualification and registration with the GMC is listed on our website. Sometimes we get queries about UK based schools, which are under the remit of an overseas university, for example Medical College London and St Christopher’s.


Azskeptic,

Where did it say that about St. Christopher’s? I find it quite amusing that people are so quick to post a bunch of drivel, but when the truth comes out no one has anything to say. I remember you also said that St. Joseph’s College in Maine wasn’t an accredited school or it was some kind of diploma mill. I think people shouldn’t waste their time posting unless they have solid ground to base their facts on. The article below is about MCL (Medical College of London). St. Christopher’s is not associated with them in any way whatsoever.


http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm


Medical College London
We have received a number of calls about Medical College London (MCL) which is based at Medway Maritime Campus, 39 Sandling Way, Chatham, Kent, ME4 3AZ.
MCL, although based in the United Kingdom, is not able to award UK primary qualifications leading to registration with the General Medical Council because MCL is not listed in the Medical Act 1983. It is not a university in the European Union offering a primary European qualification recognised in the Medical Act. Its degrees will not lead to automatic registration with us.
Medical degrees which are awarded by an institution on the World Health Organisation (WHO)'s directory of medical schools enable the graduate to undertake certain other requirements. If these requirements (including the Professional Linguistics Assessment Board (PLAB) test amongst others) are completed successfully by an individual, this would normally lead to limited registration.
The Medical College London is not currently on the WHO directory. As matters currently stand, degrees awarded by the Medical College London will not lead to registration with us.
We are not aware of degrees from MCL being awarded by a WHO listed university. It has been alleged that degrees are not in fact awarded by MCL, but by the St Lucia College of Medicine and Health Sciences. The entry on the WHO directory (dated 31 December 2002) states that "A licence was granted to the following school to operate from 1 January 2001 to 31 December 2001 St Lucia College of Medicine and Health Sciences". The St Lucia College of Medicine and Health Sciences is not therefore, currently on the WHO List. This means that it would not automatically entitle the graduate holder of the St Lucia College of Medicine and Health Sciences degree to sit PLAB or satisfy certain other requirements leading to limited registration.
These are the UK universities whose degrees are recognised by the GMC.
The Department for Education and Skills are aware of certain claims made by Medical College London. They have stated "All institutions offering degree qualifications in the UK must be recognised. If they are not, they must make it clear that they are not offering British degrees….we have now decided to ask the local trading standards, which is responsible for enforcement, to investigate Medical College of London."
The GMC has jurisdiction to look into complaints against registered medical practitioners.

azskeptic
11-09-2004, 10:41 PM
"I have also written the GMC and gotten a similar response. The full situation is as follows:

The GMC has now put on hold all applications by all the non-UK chartered medical schools in the UK while they review each one thouroughly and make a final decision. As the letter said, the results of the evaluations will be posted on the GMC website in a few short months. St. Christopher's welcomes these evaluations with open arms, since a thourough evaluation by the GMC would show the UK and the world that our school can stand up to the toughest standards. We eagerly look forward to their decision."

So what is it.....did they make a mistake or did they decide St. Chris is ok suddenly?

at GMC's website it still says the following:


http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

Approved Medical Schools in the UK

A list of schools offering medical degrees leading to a primary medical qualification and registration with the GMC is listed on our website. Sometimes we get queries about UK based schools, which are under the remit of an overseas university, for example Medical College London and St Christopher’s.


Azskeptic,

Where did it say that about St. Christopher’s? I find it quite amusing that people are so quick to post a bunch of drivel, but when the truth comes out no one has anything to say. I remember you also said that St. Joseph’s College in Maine wasn’t an accredited school or it was some kind of diploma mill. I think people shouldn’t waste their time posting unless they have solid ground to base their facts on. The article below is about MCL (Medical College of London). St. Christopher’s is not associated with them in any way whatsoever.


http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm


Medical College London
We have received a number of calls about Medical College London (MCL) which is based at Medway Maritime Campus, 39 Sandling Way, Chatham, Kent, ME4 3AZ.
MCL, although based in the United Kingdom, is not able to award UK primary qualifications leading to registration with the General Medical Council because MCL is not listed in the Medical Act 1983. It is not a university in the European Union offering a primary European qualification recognised in the Medical Act. Its degrees will not lead to automatic registration with us.
Medical degrees which are awarded by an institution on the World Health Organisation (WHO)'s directory of medical schools enable the graduate to undertake certain other requirements. If these requirements (including the Professional Linguistics Assessment Board (PLAB) test amongst others) are completed successfully by an individual, this would normally lead to limited registration.
The Medical College London is not currently on the WHO directory. As matters currently stand, degrees awarded by the Medical College London will not lead to registration with us.
We are not aware of degrees from MCL being awarded by a WHO listed university. It has been alleged that degrees are not in fact awarded by MCL, but by the St Lucia College of Medicine and Health Sciences. The entry on the WHO directory (dated 31 December 2002) states that "A licence was granted to the following school to operate from 1 January 2001 to 31 December 2001 St Lucia College of Medicine and Health Sciences". The St Lucia College of Medicine and Health Sciences is not therefore, currently on the WHO List. This means that it would not automatically entitle the graduate holder of the St Lucia College of Medicine and Health Sciences degree to sit PLAB or satisfy certain other requirements leading to limited registration.
These are the UK universities whose degrees are recognised by the GMC.
The Department for Education and Skills are aware of certain claims made by Medical College London. They have stated "All institutions offering degree qualifications in the UK must be recognised. If they are not, they must make it clear that they are not offering British degrees….we have now decided to ask the local trading standards, which is responsible for enforcement, to investigate Medical College of London."
The GMC has jurisdiction to look into complaints against registered medical practitioners.

what I posted that shows MCL and ST. Chris in the same line is at

http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

bts4202
11-09-2004, 11:09 PM
what I posted that shows MCL and ST. Chris in the same line is at

http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

The same line? So what? SGU and Spartan were both mentioned in that Courant newspaper article... does that make them the same school? Furthermore, I have read posts on this website that put you right next to some very shady characters... does that make you the same as them? I certainly don't think so.

You seem to be the only one who is upset that St. Chris was fully vindicated in this situation. You have claimed that you are completely unbiased and that your sole motive is ensure that physicians entering the US workforce from foriegn schools have adequate training. If that is true, why would you be so unhappy that the GMC has looked into us fully and still allows us to take the PLAB and enter the UK physician workforce? You are still looking for something negative to say soo badly that you strech reason to its utmost limit. I think that exposes you for what you really are and how BIASED you really are.

azskeptic
11-09-2004, 11:13 PM
what I posted that shows MCL and ST. Chris in the same line is at

http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

The same line? So what? SGU and Spartan were both mentioned in that Courant newspaper article... does that make them the same school? Furthermore, I have read posts on this website that put you right next to some very shady characters... does that make you the same as them? I certainly don't think so.

You seem to be the only one who is upset that St. Chris was fully vindicated in this situation. You have claimed that you are completely unbiased and that your sole motive is ensure that physicians entering the US workforce from foriegn schools have adequate training. If that is true, why would you be so unhappy that the GMC has looked into us fully and still allows us to take the PLAB and enter the UK physician workforce? You are still looking for something negative to say soo badly that you strech reason to its utmost limit. I think that exposes you for what you really are and how BIASED you really are.

Not unhappy at all but this forum and yourself included has mislead students with information that turned out not to be true repeatedly. You find people skeptical about the information.

I am hopeful that St. Chris can take care of the charter problem i.e. problem defined as St. Chris is a Senegal school that is in the UK. It issues an MD from Senegal to people who don't attend school in Senegal. I am hopeful students can get licensed because students are the ones that suffer.

Tell us the truth and no one can fault you. Mislead people and it will be pointed out each time. That is what has happened here. FOr instance you told us that the GMC did this action because all non-UK schools wer ein this situation and then today you blame it on a 3rd party misleading the GMC? Which is it?

azskeptic

ValuelessMD
11-09-2004, 11:59 PM
..........

ValuelessMD
11-10-2004, 12:03 AM
..........

ValuelessMD
11-10-2004, 12:07 AM
..........

ValuelessMD
11-10-2004, 12:13 AM
..........

Soon2beAdoc
11-10-2004, 02:32 AM
what I posted that shows MCL and ST. Chris in the same line is at

http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/default.htm

The same line? So what? SGU and Spartan were both mentioned in that Courant newspaper article... does that make them the same school? Furthermore, I have read posts on this website that put you right next to some very shady characters... does that make you the same as them? I certainly don't think so.

You seem to be the only one who is upset that St. Chris was fully vindicated in this situation. You have claimed that you are completely unbiased and that your sole motive is ensure that physicians entering the US workforce from foriegn schools have adequate training. If that is true, why would you be so unhappy that the GMC has looked into us fully and still allows us to take the PLAB and enter the UK physician workforce? You are still looking for something negative to say soo badly that you strech reason to its utmost limit. I think that exposes you for what you really are and how BIASED you really are.

Not unhappy at all but this forum and yourself included has mislead students with information that turned out not to be true repeatedly. You find people skeptical about the information.

I am hopeful that St. Chris can take care of the charter problem i.e. problem defined as St. Chris is a Senegal school that is in the UK. It issues an MD from Senegal to people who don't attend school in Senegal. I am hopeful students can get licensed because students are the ones that suffer.

Tell us the truth and no one can fault you. Mislead people and it will be pointed out each time. That is what has happened here. FOr instance you told us that the GMC did this action because all non-UK schools wer ein this situation and then today you blame it on a 3rd party misleading the GMC? Which is it?

azskeptic


So why did this thread start? Oh wait, it was about everyone arguing to see if St. Chris students were allowed to sit for the PLAB in England. How did we go from there to the Senegal charter issue? Everyone knows about the charter issue and I think we should just let that rest until the NY site visit is over.

Azskeptic, you have been told the truth about St. Chris and how St. Chris students ARE ALLOWED to sit for the PLAB. Instead of posting a retraction to what you have been prattling about in your previous posts, you have changed the subject to another topic. Admit your wrong sir and move on. Even Picard wasn’t a girly man and congratulated St. Christopher’s on this.

Oh and by the way, that URL you keep sending does NOT have St. Chris and MCL in the same line, and even if they did so what? Two different schools, two different entities.

neilc
11-10-2004, 04:34 AM
Holy crap, there's actual unity among St Chris students. I never thought I'd see the day when this would happen. It would appear as though some apologies are owed, but hey since that is never going to happen, I'll just end it with a "yay, St Chris!"

It shows us the power of progress. We have had GMC members examining our campus for weeks and to now have the GMC hold meetings and say without a doubt that we are eligible for the PLAB and limited licensure says quite a bit to me. It is not a UK charter, but it definately shows that the GMC approves of the quality of our program.

I feel confident that this signals a shift in the trend of negative attention we had been recieving and will now help lead St. Christopher's down the road to fulfill the promise we all believed in when we joined this school.

We have many more hurdles ahead, but to quote a famous saying.."the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"


you seem to be reading a lot into this situation...good for you that the GMC looked at the campus, and decided that you, along with 99% of the med schools in the world can sit for the plab. most of these schools did not require a site visit to gain this status anyhow! this issue may be resolved (well, not really, lets see if anyone actually gets past limited registration in the UK before we start getting too excited) but, there is a lot left hanging out there. to interpret this as a sign of positive things to come is a bit ridiculous! you merely recaptured a lost privlege.

most of the real issues remain unresloved. where are the licensed grads? where is the approval in all states? what about your charter issues? you have only proved that you are allowed to sit the plab, which pretty much ANY school can do....this only shows that you regained the minimal level of acceptance that most third-rate schools in the world had, and even they never had it suspended, for however briefly.

to the curious...stay far, far away from this school, until it really proves itself in the form of licensed, practicing physicians eligible to work in all states. they have proven time and time again that the admin and students are not trustworthy, and they have never offered anything that 99% of the med schools in the world already offer....and many of the others offer it without the risk!

bts4202
11-10-2004, 10:08 AM
you seem to be reading a lot into this situation...good for you that the GMC looked at the campus, and decided that you, along with 99% of the med schools in the world can sit for the plab. most of these schools did not require a site visit to gain this status anyhow! this issue may be resolved (well, not really, lets see if anyone actually gets past limited registration in the UK before we start getting too excited) but, there is a lot left hanging out there. to interpret this as a sign of positive things to come is a bit ridiculous! you merely recaptured a lost privlege.

most of the real issues remain unresloved. where are the licensed grads? where is the approval in all states? what about your charter issues? you have only proved that you are allowed to sit the plab, which pretty much ANY school can do....this only shows that you regained the minimal level of acceptance that most third-rate schools in the world had, and even they never had it suspended, for however briefly.

to the curious...stay far, far away from this school, until it really proves itself in the form of licensed, practicing physicians eligible to work in all states. they have proven time and time again that the admin and students are not trustworthy, and they have never offered anything that 99% of the med schools in the world already offer....and many of the others offer it without the risk!

I think that anyone with any common sense and who does not have an agenda can see that the GMC inspecting our campus and approving us says quite a bit. So what if all other foriegn schools are allowed to take the PLAB, they are not inspected so there is no basis for comparison. The fact is that an organization that is used to teh quality of UK medical schools inspected us and still feels we are adequate. That is positive in no matter how you try to spin it.

azskeptic
11-10-2004, 10:13 AM
you seem to be reading a lot into this situation...good for you that the GMC looked at the campus, and decided that you, along with 99% of the med schools in the world can sit for the plab. most of these schools did not require a site visit to gain this status anyhow! this issue may be resolved (well, not really, lets see if anyone actually gets past limited registration in the UK before we start getting too excited) but, there is a lot left hanging out there. to interpret this as a sign of positive things to come is a bit ridiculous! you merely recaptured a lost privlege.

most of the real issues remain unresloved. where are the licensed grads? where is the approval in all states? what about your charter issues? you have only proved that you are allowed to sit the plab, which pretty much ANY school can do....this only shows that you regained the minimal level of acceptance that most third-rate schools in the world had, and even they never had it suspended, for however briefly.

to the curious...stay far, far away from this school, until it really proves itself in the form of licensed, practicing physicians eligible to work in all states. they have proven time and time again that the admin and students are not trustworthy, and they have never offered anything that 99% of the med schools in the world already offer....and many of the others offer it without the risk!

I think that anyone with any common sense and who does not have an agenda can see that the GMC inspecting our campus and approving us says quite a bit. So what if all other foriegn schools are allowed to take the PLAB, they are not inspected so there is no basis for comparison. The fact is that an organization that is used to teh quality of UK medical schools inspected us and still feels we are adequate. That is positive in no matter how you try to spin it.

We all eagerly await to see the GMC's report which should be on their website I would guess in the future. Havae you met with the House Of Commons committee that is studying the issue?

Picard
11-10-2004, 10:22 PM
I think we have all seen Valuelessmd's previous posts to see how biased he is against the school. His repeated posts above quoting my concerns just shows how childish he and others who associated with SC can be.

Regardless of how brief the suspension (AND YES, IT WAS A SUSPENSION, NOT AN ADMINSTRATIVE ERROR) of SC's PLAB status is, the underline issues facing SC remains largely UNRESOLVED. It's funny how SC folks want to isolate this PLAB issue and treat it as a "victory." This PLAB issue STEMMED FROM THE LARGER CHARTER ISSUE. If SC weren't a Senegalese school operating ENTIRELY out of UK without UK accreditation (a practice that is ILLEGAL IN EVERY OTHER WESTERN COUNTRY INCLUDING THE US), PLAB wouldn't become a issue in the first place. So SC gained some very basic priveleges back, good for you. But on the larger scale of things, this is minimal. Think about it, even fraudulent schools like Grace and IUHS did NOT lose their "PLAB eligibility"... goes to show you how low this "privilege" ranks.

Again, I was merely trying to offer a best wish when this "valuelessmd" started acting childish... SC's larger issue is still UNRESOLVED. Operating in a host country without it's blessing/accreditation is STILL A RISKY BUSINESS that may be shut down at anytime as the political climate changes. If SC cannot see that, well, good luck.

P

bts4202
11-11-2004, 09:03 AM
I think we have all seen Valuelessmd's previous posts to see how biased he is against the school. His repeated posts above quoting my concerns just shows how childish he and others who associated with SC can be.

Think about it, even fraudulent schools like Grace and IUHS did NOT lose their "PLAB eligibility"... goes to show you how low this "privilege" ranks.

P

Firstly, I think it is quite unfair that as soon as you disagree with a response, you start calling general st chris students childish. In fact, i think THAT is more childish.

Anyway, your point about grace and IUHS has no validity. Those schools are entirely geared towards the US so the GMC has not had to deal with them at all. The GMC gets lots of phone calls about St. Chris and has been put in a position where they had to make a final decision. If the GMC went to visit Grace or IUHS like they did us, I seriously doubt their privledges would be put back in place. It is like blaming a US state for not banning a caribb med school they do not know exists... it just doesn't make any sense.

The facts remain, the UK is very different than the US. They have laws that allow branch campuses to operate in it. The fact also remains that the GMC has had people inspecting St. Chris for weeks and have now given us teh final decision that our program's quality is adequate enough that we deserve all the same privledges that all other proper foriegn schools are entitled to. Maybe if the GMC is made aware that not all foriegn schools are created equal, especially in the caribb, then they may start to take a longer look at some of the schools like Grace and IUHS.

ValuelessMD
11-11-2004, 09:32 AM
..........

AUCMD2006
11-11-2004, 01:38 PM
"Those schools are entirely geared towards the US so the GMC has not had to deal with them at all."

you are implying that SC isn't geared and marketed to the US student population. how many senagal or uk students are at SC?


"The fact also remains that the GMC has had people inspecting St. Chris for weeks and have now given us teh final decision that our program's quality is adequate enough that we deserve all the same privledges that all other proper foriegn schools are entitled to"

when will they have the findings in writing? that is what counts.


the NY visit will be a major plus for you guys if it gets approved and will show that recognition is a possibility. i think any student that passes steps 1,2,3 with good evals from hospitals should be allowed to work because the work and determination just to get that done should be proof alone...unfortunately all schools have to abide by laws and SC, Kigezi, MCL, Grace, IUA, AUA, etc that try and find "innovative" ways around it a lot of times just leave students with debt.

again i would like to point out that SC has been around since 1998 with people transfred in to clinicals and no licenses yet right? as soon as that first one happens, and i don't doubt it will somewhere, it will get easier from there. until then it will always be an unproven school with questionable ways around licensing laws no matter how many improvements they make or who does site visits, simple as that.

Picard
11-11-2004, 06:25 PM
Anyway, your point about grace and IUHS has no validity. Those schools are entirely geared towards the US so the GMC has not had to deal with them at all. The GMC gets lots of phone calls about St. Chris and has been put in a position where they had to make a final decision. If the GMC went to visit Grace or IUHS like they did us, I seriously doubt their privledges would be put back in place. It is like blaming a US state for not banning a caribb med school they do not know exists... it just doesn't make any sense.


Ahh, did I miss the fact the the majority of Luton students are working in Senegal or UK??? Give me a break. Your argument is ridiculous and shows you still don't get the point.

The simple fact is, GMC would NOT have had to "deal with" SC if SC had play it ethically and have you all go to school in Senegal. The PLAB rule is simple -- is the school listed under WHO. So, IUHS and Grace would have absolutely NO problem qualifying for PLAB. Even if GMC is to visit them, GMC has no choice but to let them take PLAB. SC, on the other hand, is OPERATING IN UK WITHOUT GMC accreditation. This is why GMC can rule that SC is de facto an unaccredited, illegal UK school disguising under a purchased charter from a third world country that SC has little or no relation with. And since SC is NOT listed under UK in the IMED/WHO, thus the temporay suspension of the PLAB eligbility. The final verdict on this is still out, and WILL NEVER BE FINAL as long as SC remains in UK unaccredited by UK. And, as Luton campus grows more and more sophisticated (and Senegal campus does not), GMC may rule IN THE FUTURE that SC has crossed the threshhold and is de facto an unlicensed UK school dispite it's attempt at disgusing itself as a Senegal school... (it's hard to argue SC is a Senegal school if SC's Luton campus grows to state of the art caliber while it's Senegal "parent campus" is in shambles...) So, as you can see, this issue will NEVER be finalized as long as SC remains in UK unaccredited. It will be revisited again and again in the future... and one of these times, with the right GMC climate, it may turn against SC Luton in a heartbeat.

SC exists now in the legal LOOPHOLE in the UK. Believe me, if GMC can close SC down, it would. SC preys on the fact that PLAB eligibility is just like USMLE eligibility in the US -- its WHO/IMED based and requires NO accreditation process by the host country (US or UK), and the fact that the general UK laws allow foreign schools (any trade/profession) to exist in UK unchallenged. The UK law simply has not caught up to the tactics SC uses. The US, on the other hand, recognizes this... this is why US licensing laws do NOT grant licenses solely based on the passage of USMLE (plenty of folks with ECFMG certs and stellar USMLE scores and still unlicensible in ANY US jurisdiction) and have enacted laws that prevent foreign medical schools to operate ENTIRELY in the US without US charter AFTER ROSS' ATTEMPT IN WYOMING. There is a GREAT PUSH in the UK medical community to follow what the US has done and put a stop to models like SC... current UK law's loophole allows SC to operate, so GMC is powerless at this time to close SC -- but the time may come that laws may change just like it did in the US... and SC folks may find themselves joining the rank of it's founders medical school Grace.

Don't be too cocky about this "PLAB eligibility" -- it does NOT in anyway mean that SC is now somehow "recognized" or "accredited" by the UK. GMC still does NOT recognize SC as a legitamate UK school. It merely allows SC to take the PLAB like the rest of the foreign schools because SC technically falls in the current loophole.

P

azskeptic
11-11-2004, 06:36 PM
http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20040300/62thec.html

The Cost of White Lies

If you find yourself the defendant in a trial, falsifications in your CV or other sources could destroy your credibility, or even your career.

Martin J. MacNeill, DO, JD, and Alexis MacNeill, BA

Covered in FPM Quiz

A PDF version of this document is available. Download PDF now (3 pages/119 KB). More information on using PDF files.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPEEDBAR®

» Discuss with your attorney if and when you should disclose your indiscretions to the jury.

» If you are afraid the opposing counsel plans to use this information against you, consider a pretrial motion to keep it out of the case.

» If you have been dishonest in some aspect of your professional career, your reputation as a physician could be ruined in a malpractice trial.

» Your CV must contain accurate information that includes degrees, awards and accomplishments that you have really earned.

» Examine your advertisements and office materials for errors because mistakes might have been made without your knowledge.

» If you should discover a discrepancy, whether intentional or unintentional, point this out to your attorney immediately.


KEY POINTS
Any dishonest information on your curriculum vitae, advertisements or other office materials can undermine your credibility as a physician and decrease your chances of prevailing in a malpractice lawsuit.
If you do have misleading information on your CV, discuss this with your attorney and decide how to approach the situation so that the opposing counsel doesn't use it to their advantage.
Certain information can be withheld during the trial if the judge agrees.

He lied. No doubt about it. He fabricated things on his curriculum vitae. He had never been a professor of medicine, clinical or otherwise, but there it was smack dab in the middle of his CV. Why did he put it in there? Who knew? Regardless, now we were stuck with it, and the opposing counsel had the CV in his grubby little paws. What should we do? Should we bring it out in the open? Or should we keep it to ourselves and hope the plaintiff's counsel didn't check the facts?

It didn't take long to reach a decision. The opposing counsel phoned us to ask about the obvious discrepancy in the CV. The result? The case was settled out of court for a hefty sum, all because of this apparent lie.

If you are a defendant in a lawsuit, your credibility as a physician is extremely important. It may be the make-or-break factor in determining whether the jury buys the rest of your story. In my role as a physician/attorney, I have counseled many physicians who have fudged a bit about some aspect of their practice. Many have come to regret these white lies.

If a hospital doesn't consider you a staff member, take it off your CV.

Checking the facts

The first thing I check when evaluating a physician's credibility before a trial is his or her CV, because it requires unerring accuracy. Small secretarial errors are not a big concern, but it is crucial that you remove all of the things that cannot be documented through other sources. If a hospital doesn't consider you a staff member, take it off your CV. If you didn't complete a residency, don't claim you did. If something on your list of publications can't be verified, toss it out. If your cum laude status doesn't match the records of the university, change it. If you're older than your CV states, correct it. Each of these examples appeared in actual CVs, and those physicians had to face the consequences of their little untruths.

Be aware that your CV is just one area that may require a careful examination. Errors can pop up in unexpected places. They are not always the fault of the physician, but often he or she winds up paying for these mistakes.

In one case, a well-known plastic surgeon claimed that years before, his office manager had placed the words "board certified" in the clinic's Yellow Pages advertisement. The physician noticed the error but did not reprimand the office manager or change the ad. Seven years' worth of ads later, a reporter asked the surgeon, now a state legislator, about his advertisement. The truth was uncovered, and the surgeon is no longer a politician. The office manager's error became his ticket out of politics.

It seems common that physicians do not want to admit their humanity to their attorneys.

Take a close look at all the letters and honors that appear after your name on your office sign, advertisements and other printed materials. Make sure they all can be documented and proven when the time comes. The information is usually available online to the general public and reporters, as well as to the opposing counsel.

Admitting your mistakes

It seems common that physicians do not want to admit their humanity to their attorneys. I once received a client's information from his religious leader because the physician was too embarrassed to tell me about it but had confessed to his pastor. Fortunately, the pastor had more sense than the physician and received permission to talk to me about the issue. If there is a problem, tell your attorney and your religious leader, in that order. Remember, your attorney cannot address blemishes unless he or she sees them first.

There is nothing worse than the attorney hearing something for the first time while questioning the client on the stand. I know of one incident that occurred soon after a physician was sworn in to testify. His attorney, trying to show the physician in the best possible light, asked where the doctor had gone to medical school. The attorney fully expected the answer to be Yale, as per the CV. The doctor testified that he had gone to a school in the Caribbean. The attorney was so stunned by the answer that he asked a follow-up question, "But didn't you also go to Yale?" The answer silenced the courtroom. "No, I just put that in my biographical information because that makes the patients feel more comfortable with me as a physician."

When asked later why he hadn't informed the attorney until then, the physician's response was, "I didn't think it mattered." Well, it mattered to the tune of $110,000 in settlement. The opposing counsel jumped on this information and hammered home that his CV was a lie. The physician's credibility was destroyed, and the jury did not believe anything else he said. The physician's patients could have easily decided on a class action suit for fraud.

Choosing a strategy

Before a trial you need a reality check. If you have general indiscretions that could damage your credibility, you and your attorney must assess how likely it is that the opposing side will become aware of them. If you have fully complied with the discovery process, you are under no legal or ethical requirement to divulge potentially damaging information to your opponents. Nevertheless, you must always be careful about information you withhold from the plaintiff. Your opponent may already know about this information and may be preparing to ask you about it at trial.

HOW TO APPROPRIATELY DISCLOSE HARMFUL FACTS DURING A TRIAL
The following dialogue between an attorney and a client presents one way to handle falsified information during a jury trial.

Attorney: Dr. Smith, are you a clinical professor of psychiatry?
Client: No, I am not.
A: Have you ever been?
C: No, I have not.
A: Have you ever claimed to be?
C: Yes, I have.
A: Why would you claim to be something you aren't?
C: I attended a class reunion and I wanted to impress my old classmates.
A: Have you ever used this in an attempt to fool patients?
C: No, I would never do that.
A: Why are you telling us this now?
C: I want, more than anything, to tell the truth. I have sworn to tell the truth, and I believe that I have a moral, ethical and legal obligation to be forthright in every way possible with the jury.
A: Will you continue to tell the truth to this jury, no matter how difficult?
C: Yes, I will.
A: All right, Doctor, now let's talk more about the case.




If you know that damaging information is going to be used against you, consider carefully whether you should be the one to expose your "warts" to the jury, and discuss this option with your attorney. It may be best to disclose it early in the trial process to prevent the opposite side from doing it at a time more advantageous to the plaintiff.

If you are especially concerned about some information from your past and absolutely do not want it exposed to the jury, there are ways to prevent it from coming out. Even when the information is relevant, the judge has the discretion to keep it out of the case. To withhold this information, the judge must decide that the emotional impact on the jury outweighs its benefits in the trial. We all understand that past indiscretions occur. Everyone has skeletons in the closet, and sometimes, the court will rule that it would not be fair to expose these delicate issues for the world to see. If you decide to go this route and prevent access to information, you and your attorney should consider doing it through pretrial motions because objections during the trial can damage your credibility.

Pretrial motions do have their limitations. First, you may be turned down by the judge. Second, even if your motion is approved, your opponent then is privy to this information. Do you really want to open up this can of worms? Tough decisions are ahead, but it is significantly easier to change incorrect or damaging information prior to the trial.

Protecting your credibility

Psychologists will tell you that people subconsciously cling to their first impressions. This is no different for a jury. If you come across as a liar, then it is difficult to change that opinion. If you have harmful information that must come out, it should be you or your attorney who brings it out. As an attorney, I would rather be able to say to a jury, "My client was open and honest with you even when it hurt."

Send comments to [email protected]

Dr. MacNeill is the medical director of the Utah State Developmental Center and a health care attorney in Provo, Utah. Alexis MacNeill is a graduate student at Imperial College of Science Medicine and Technology in London. Conflicts of interest: none reported.

ValuelessMD
11-11-2004, 06:50 PM
..........

stchrisrep
11-13-2004, 03:01 PM
Regardless of how brief the suspension (AND YES, IT WAS A SUSPENSION, NOT AN ADMINSTRATIVE ERROR) of SC's PLAB status is, the underline issues facing SC remains largely UNRESOLVED.

P

This is incorrect. There was no suspension. The GMC made a mistake and confused us with a medical school chartered in St. Lucia. The GMC had told us that a third party had contacted them and provided erroneous information about us. The GMC had made an administrative error and corrected it.



> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "GMC Registration Services" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 11:47 AM
> > Subject: GMC Registration Services
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for your email dated 1 November 2004.
> >>
> >> We are not currently accepting primary medical qualifications from St
> >> Christopher's (based in Luton) awarded by St Lucia as eligibility for
> >> taking
> >> the PLAB. This decision is under review and within the next few months
we
> >> should have a decision posted on our website www.gmc-uk.org.
> >>
> >> If you have any further queries please contact us and we will do our
best
> >> to
> >> help.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yours sincerely
> >>
> >> Megan Gale
> >> Registration and Education Directorate
> >> General Medical Council
> >> Telephone: 0845 357 3456
> >> [email protected]
> >>




> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "GMC Registration Services" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:20 AM
> Subject: GMC Registration Services
>
>
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your reply.
> >
> > Please accept my apologies we did have the incorrect information this
has
> > now been clarified. The Primary Medical Qualification gained at St
> > Christopher's based in Luton is awarded by Senegal not St Lucia.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yours sincerely
> >
> > Sarah Burns
> > Registration and Education Directorate
> > General Medical Council
> > Telephone - 0845 357 3456
> > [email protected]
> >





There was recently some question regarding the staus of St Christopher's
College of Luton. However, this has now been resolved.
Graduates of St Christopher's College of Luton have their degrees awarded by
St Christopher's College of Medicine, Dakar, Senegal. This is WHO listed,
and as such, we would accept these degrees for the purposes of limited
registration.
I hope that my response has been helpful. If you have any other queries,
please contact me and I will do my best to help.

Kelly Fitz*****s
Correspondence Department
Registration and Education Directorate
Telephone: 08453 573 456
[email protected]
Registration Services
General Medical Council
St James Building
79 Oxford Street
Manchester M1 6FQ







Copyright © 2003-2018 ValueMD, LLC. All rights reserved.