PDA

View Full Version : Caribbean Medical Education for an Indian Student



kssgopal
12-26-2014, 02:44 AM
Hello friends, I am pursuing medical education in Caribbeans for my son. He is in 12th standard in CBSE (india) syllabus. Our intention is to study and do residency in US and then practice in US if possible.
Since getting into US univerisites is difficult, I would like to opt for better Carribbean colleges, by considering 6 years Pre-Med + MD program.
I would like to get your opinion and advice on the following points.
1. Is it difficult for an Indian student to do 6 yrs program?
2. What is the success rate of an Indian student in completing 6 yrs MD and through USMLE Step 1 & Step 2.
3. Which Caribbean colleges are recognised by Medical Council of India?
4. Any hidden risks in doing 6 yrs MD in Caribbean colleges?

TheFBguy
01-15-2015, 02:42 PM
I would suggest he gets an undergrad degree in the States and apply to a US medical school.

As long as he scores well on his MCAT and has a good GPA, getting into a US medical school might not be as difficult as you assume.

AUA should be a plan B for most students, not plan A. Nothing against this school, however, the stigma of being a caribbean medical (IMG) grad will limit his residency options.

devildoc8404
01-15-2015, 04:07 PM
TheFBguy is spot-on. This is especially true if your son is not a US citizen or Green Card holder, which makes residency match in the US even more challenging.

Compare the match rates for US medical school graduates and foreign medical graduates, add in the published projections from the AAMC and ACGME for increasing numbers of US medical school graduates (via new medical schools and increasing class sizes), and it should become quite apparent that someone who wants to practice medicine in the US should study in the US...

(EDIT) ...if possible, or their home country as mentioned below. Kudos Terp13.

Terp13
01-15-2015, 04:51 PM
Hello friends, I am pursuing medical education in Caribbeans for my son. He is in 12th standard in CBSE (india) syllabus. Our intention is to study and do residency in US and then practice in US if possible.
Since getting into US univerisites is difficult, I would like to opt for better Carribbean colleges, by considering 6 years Pre-Med + MD program.
I would like to get your opinion and advice on the following points.
1. Is it difficult for an Indian student to do 6 yrs program?
2. What is the success rate of an Indian student in completing 6 yrs MD and through USMLE Step 1 & Step 2.
3. Which Caribbean colleges are recognised by Medical Council of India?
4. Any hidden risks in doing 6 yrs MD in Caribbean colleges?

1. It is not difficult in the first two years perhaps but then it becomes very difficult in the middle two years where the real medical curriculum begins and it is even more difficult to pass the USMLE licensing exam after that if you have not been through college in the US. There is a reason you have to complete your undergraduate degree and often take a year or two off before entering medical school in the states.

2. The success rate of any student going through the 6 year program (if they even complete it) is very low. A lot of states require an undergraduate degree or at least 3 years worth of undergrad before they can give you a residency position and/or license to practice. The 6 year program restricts that and is not at all advisable.

3. I am not sure what MCI's criteria is so you would have to go to their website and find out but the accreditation of these Caribbean schools is important so if they are not accredited by their local bodies or the CAAM, WHO, AVICENNA, etc, then I would stay away from those schools.

4. There are LOTS of risks with going down this path and I would not recommend it to anybody including kids in US.

If your son is set on practicing Medicine in the USA, know that it is a very long path from finishing medicine to getting a residency to finally practicing. (Total time including Medical studies will be around 10 years before practicing as a fully licensed Physician)

My Advice: He should study Medicine in India or any other country which offers the MBBS degree. In US, there is no MBBS degree as Medicine is a PG degree and is offered as MD or DO. Once he gets his MBBS, he should take time off (minimum two years) to study for the USMLE exams and meanwhile do externships or shadow Doctors here. He has to not only pass the USMLE but do well in order to be considered for a Residency position here. He should also be willing to compromise on location and type of residency (as internationals are considered the last pick in the process unless they have experience practicing in their own country). It is very hard to specialize in the more opulent specialties such as cardiology if you are international applicant so he has to accept that fact as well. But again the keypoint here is that he should just study medicine in India.

He cannot finish his undergrad in USA and then apply to US medical schools (like those above me mentioned) because you have to have a Green Card to apply to US medical schools and it will take a long time for that process to happen if he is even approved. Keep in mind students are usually not given Green Cards here. You have to prove that you have a job which will require your permanent residence in the country so the Green Card comes after he becomes a licensed physician here.

devildoc8404
01-15-2015, 05:11 PM
That is absolutely correct, Terp13. I totally spaced on the immigration issue with regard to application to US medical schools, and the fact that time spent as a student is generally not included toward a Green Card. Good call.

kssgopal
01-16-2015, 12:22 AM
I sincerely thank you. I am considering the Pre-Med option in US.

kssgopal
01-16-2015, 12:51 AM
Thank you sir for your very well detailed information. Point no 2 is news to me and it is a concern. My son says no issue to 10 yrs educational path.
1. How do you suggest doing Pre-Med program in US and try for MD in US and if not then go to Caribbean schools?
2. Doing MBBS in India and then going to US for USMLE steps exams is also a time of uncertainity. After MBBS, there will be a confusion whether to try for USMLEs or directly join MD in India so that time will not be vasted. If not successful in USMLEs, 2 yrs span is vasted and taking up in MD in India is anothe challenge and the student starts frustration with time.
3. Yes, the student will still be eligible to study and work in India if he does MBBS in India, in case he fails at USMLEs.

kssgopal
01-16-2015, 01:04 AM
THis point is also a news to me. However, the recent report (2014) of ECFMG gives better results for Non-US IMGs success at residencies.
I shall consider your views also. Thank you

TheFBguy
01-16-2015, 06:23 AM
Thank you sir for your very well detailed information. Point no 2 is news to me and it is a concern. My son says no issue to 10 yrs educational path.
1. How do you suggest doing Pre-Med program in US and try for MD in US and if not then go to Caribbean schools?
2. Doing MBBS in India and then going to US for USMLE steps exams is also a time of uncertainity. After MBBS, there will be a confusion whether to try for USMLEs or directly join MD in India so that time will not be vasted. If not successful in USMLEs, 2 yrs span is vasted and taking up in MD in India is anothe challenge and the student starts frustration with time.
3. Yes, the student will still be eligible to study and work in India if he does MBBS in India, in case he fails at USMLEs.
Your son should consider getting a 4 year degree in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, or Nursing (my personal favorite and something I wish I would have done). Once he starts these programs, he will then need to take premed coursework to ensure he meets the requirements to enter medical school.

Finally, maybe you should have your son join this forum and ask his own questions. After all, this is his life and he should be in the driver seat.

devildoc8404
01-16-2015, 12:19 PM
THis point is also a news to me. However, the recent report (2014) of ECFMG gives better results for Non-US IMGs success at residencies.
I shall consider your views also. Thank you

I would urge you to read the JAMA article published by the AAMC and ACGME: JAMA Network | JAMA | Residency Training and International Medical Graduates: *Coming to America No More (http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1475200)

These are the views of the people in charge of the US residency match and US medical education, not mine. My opinion, as a resident in Switzerland, means precious little in comparison.

Terp13
01-16-2015, 12:30 PM
Thank you sir for your very well detailed information. Point no 2 is news to me and it is a concern. My son says no issue to 10 yrs educational path.
1. How do you suggest doing Pre-Med program in US and try for MD in US and if not then go to Caribbean schools?
2. Doing MBBS in India and then going to US for USMLE steps exams is also a time of uncertainity. After MBBS, there will be a confusion whether to try for USMLEs or directly join MD in India so that time will not be vasted. If not successful in USMLEs, 2 yrs span is vasted and taking up in MD in India is anothe challenge and the student starts frustration with time.
3. Yes, the student will still be eligible to study and work in India if he does MBBS in India, in case he fails at USMLEs.

I think you answered your own questions.
Unless you have a relative in the US who can sponsor your son's green card, it is basically impossible for your son to apply to US medical schools so there is no point in him coming to the US for Undergrad since it will be a waste of time and money. You can always double check with schools about that but generally you need at least a green card to apply. So the best thing to do is to complete MBBS in India or even in other countries in Eastern Europe, Middle East, Singapore, etc. Then try for residency here. The environment for residency is constantly changing so nobody can say in 8 years exactly how hard or easy it will be for foreign doctors to attain a position here. But that is the best route in my opinion and basically the only route for him to become a practicing doctor here. Worst comes to worse, he can always come back to India or go to other countries which recognize the MBBS degree. And that two year span is not "wasted" because he can always work while studying and figuring out his options.

newenglandlobster508
01-26-2015, 12:35 PM
Hello friends, I am pursuing medical education in Caribbeans for my son. He is in 12th standard in CBSE (india) syllabus. Our intention is to study and do residency in US and then practice in US if possible.
Since getting into US univerisites is difficult, I would like to opt for better Carribbean colleges, by considering 6 years Pre-Med + MD program.
I would like to get your opinion and advice on the following points.
1. Is it difficult for an Indian student to do 6 yrs program?
2. What is the success rate of an Indian student in completing 6 yrs MD and through USMLE Step 1 & Step 2.
3. Which Caribbean colleges are recognised by Medical Council of India?
4. Any hidden risks in doing 6 yrs MD in Caribbean colleges?

Hi, Im an Indian american student, Im entering a carribbean med school but I would like to bring some light to your questions. The 6 year MD Caribbean route is a waste of your time, because the only Caribbean schools you should be looking at are SGU ROSS AUC SABA and AUA. With the others, state approvals make it a risky journey. Saying youre from India, you are better off completing your MBBS in India and then moving to the united states in Residency, a foreign grad is a foreign grad. We all take the USMLE. All this being said Kasturba, Manipal seems to be your best route. Also, manipal has opened up a Caribbean school, AUA. Check it out

kssgopal
01-26-2015, 09:24 PM
I think you answered your own questions.
Unless you have a relative in the US who can sponsor your son's green card, it is basically impossible for your son to apply to US medical schools so there is no point in him coming to the US for Undergrad since it will be a waste of time and money. You can always double check with schools about that but generally you need at least a green card to apply. So the best thing to do is to complete MBBS in India or even in other countries in Eastern Europe, Middle East, Singapore, etc. Then try for residency here. The environment for residency is constantly changing so nobody can say in 8 years exactly how hard or easy it will be for foreign doctors to attain a position here. But that is the best route in my opinion and basically the only route for him to become a practicing doctor here. Worst comes to worse, he can always come back to India or go to other countries which recognize the MBBS degree. And that two year span is not "wasted" because he can always work while studying and figuring out his options.

Hai, sorry for my belated reply. I agree with you 100%. Basically I am keeping Indian education option open. Looking at US and others because of attaining better standards and quality of education. Ofcourse in india, AIMS, JIPMER etc., institutes provide the same quality of education. However, it will be very difficult to get them. In this reason only I am looking at other options where I can get the quality and standard of education at par with those institutes. Now, I will drop US and related education in Caribbean islands. Looking at Germany Medical Education, which has been rated excellent. But the worry is it is 7-8 yrs like US (after 12th std., 1 yr Preparatory course then 6 yrs Medicine). Complete course is in GERMANY language.

I take your advice very honestly and plan his future.

kssgopal
01-26-2015, 09:38 PM
Hai, I sincerely thank you for your time and totally agree with you 100%.
Basically I am keeping Indian education option open. Looking at US and others because of attaining better standards and quality of education. Ofcourse in india, AIMS, JIPMER etc., institutes provide the same quality of education. However, it will be very difficult to get them. In this reason only I am looking at other options where I can get the quality and standard of education at par with those institutes.

Yesterday I received another advice that after joining Caribbean colleges, for VISA to US may be an issue. I have approached AUA college officials & talked to admission coordinator for India. He encouraged the admission. I asked about VISA issues...his reply is positive.

Why did you say that 6yr MD Caribbean route is waste of your time? I looked at only SGU, ROSS, AUC, SABA & AUA colleges. Not others. Out of these colleges only SGU and AUA are providing Pre-Medicals. If at all I opt, I have to chose between these two.


All friends in this blog suggested India is a safe bet for all the reasons that you mentioned.
I shall carefully deal with US and related education in Caribbean islands options.

As another better option, looking at Germany Medical Education, which has been rated excellent. But the worry is it is 7-8 yrs like US (after 12th std., 1 yr Preparatory course and then 6 yrs Medicine). Complete course is in GERMANY language.

I take your advice very honestly and plan his future. Going to meet the Kasturba college officials in Feb 2015.

devildoc8404
01-28-2015, 03:03 PM
I have approached AUA college officials & talked to admission coordinator for India. He encouraged the admission. I asked about VISA issues...his reply is positive.

Remember that admissions coordinators have "skin in the game," and be sure independently verify EVERYTHING. That goes for agencies, admissions coordinators, etc. Some of them are honest. Please do not try to find out which ones these are the hard way.

kssgopal
01-28-2015, 09:18 PM
Remember that admissions coordinators have "skin in the game," and be sure independently verify EVERYTHING. That goes for agencies, admissions coordinators, etc. Some of them are honest. Please do not try to find out which ones these are the hard way.

Noted dear friend

newenglandlobster508
02-04-2015, 03:20 PM
Hai, I sincerely thank you for your time and totally agree with you 100%.
Basically I am keeping Indian education option open. Looking at US and others because of attaining better standards and quality of education. Ofcourse in india, AIMS, JIPMER etc., institutes provide the same quality of education. However, it will be very difficult to get them. In this reason only I am looking at other options where I can get the quality and standard of education at par with those institutes.

Yesterday I received another advice that after joining Caribbean colleges, for VISA to US may be an issue. I have approached AUA college officials & talked to admission coordinator for India. He encouraged the admission. I asked about VISA issues...his reply is positive.

Why did you say that 6yr MD Caribbean route is waste of your time? I looked at only SGU, ROSS, AUC, SABA & AUA colleges. Not others. Out of these colleges only SGU and AUA are providing Pre-Medicals. If at all I opt, I have to chose between these two.


All friends in this blog suggested India is a safe bet for all the reasons that you mentioned.
I shall carefully deal with US and related education in Caribbean islands options.

As another better option, looking at Germany Medical Education, which has been rated excellent. But the worry is it is 7-8 yrs like US (after 12th std., 1 yr Preparatory course and then 6 yrs Medicine). Complete course is in GERMANY language.

I take your advice very honestly and plan his future. Going to meet the Kasturba college officials in Feb 2015.

The primary reason I say Caribbean option for 6 years is a waste of time because you are simply earning a foreign MD degree (foreign to India and US) and in your son's case, he still needs a US visa. The schools will tell you everything will be okay and he shouldn't have trouble getting a visa but there is still a 50/50 risk. In 5.5 years you can earn your MBBS degree from India (still a foreign school just like Caribbean schools) for a very small price. You are paying huge overhead for Caribbean schools. MBBS is all you need to take the USMLE and get a residency in the US. So in my opinion he is far better of with an MBBS in India







Copyright © 2003-2018 ValueMD, LLC. All rights reserved.