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View Full Version : Ok Because Arguments Confuse Me Really , To Sum It Up Which Is Better Lodz Or Wroclaw



Sobky
04-20-2012, 04:23 PM
Regarding

- Recognition In USA
- Recognition In EU ( I Am Egyptian Not European )
- Quality Of Education
- City
- University Character
- Lab Preparations
- Student Reviews
- Accommodation If Possible

In The English 6 Year MD

All Opinions Will Be Welcome Even If They Are Different & I Won't Be Mislead I Am 21 Years Old So No Worries About That Thanks :D

devildoc8404
04-20-2012, 04:45 PM
USA = the same recognition (NOT in all 50 states)
EU = full recognition (although work options will vary with citizenship/language)
Quality = no idea... but I have heard more about Lodz
City = no idea... Google Image is your friend, and I would recommend flying to visit both places before attending if you can
Character, Lab, Students, Accommodation = no idea...

You will find the right spot for you through research, I'm sure. Best of luck to you.

bidiboom
04-21-2012, 02:03 AM
- Recognition In USA - They are roughly equal by that regard, no CMB approval.
- Recognition In EU ( I Am Egyptian Not European ) - They are recognized in EU, but as a non-EU citizen many will be reluctant, some will totally close their doors, but you can work in some countries which are in need of doctors and this changes in time.
- Quality Of Education - I want to develop this point later
- City - Wroclaw is far to Lodz and neighboring Lublin, I mean far to that region which still have communist-time traces, and in Silesia region which neighbors to Krakow, the old capital of Poland. This gives me a rather positive impression about Wroclaw, but not certainty.
- University Character -
- Lab Preparations -
- Student Reviews
- Accommodation If Possible
________________________________________

Wroclaw - They dont have 4-year program but Lodz have. I think this has a serious role in being a subject of forums for foreign students. The students from US/CA prefer 4-year programs, so Lodz or all other schools with 4-year program takes more place in forums.
This page (especially the investments in new infrastructure) gives a good impression:
Wroclaw Medical University - Home page (http://www.am.wroc.pl/en/content/view/1/2/)
I have a question mark in my mind, is this infrastructure is taken in sefvice now? Is it active or still under construction?
The number of students is 206 in English med program and they dont have entrance exam! Also this is a 6-year program which is established in 2003, so
1) The class sizes are small, its a good thing.
2) From 2003 to today, they didnt/couldnt? expand their class size.
3) Not to admit with an entrance exam doenst give a good impression to me.
Also they say in their website that their curriculum is parallel with their Polish program. But the textbook list tells that they use rather US textbooks. How parallel then? BTW, the textbooks part is a good point.
They dont have USMLE prep studies, no NBME exams, no preparation for US system.

But they have quality service and inventions. Poland is pretty productive by inventions and research I think. Jag is leading by that regard, but I observed this productivity in Lodz as well. But this is a very supericial impression :p (not about Jag, I saw what they do in their departments, this part is not superficial, they are very active).

99 prof, 105 PhD and 676 doctorate degree. When you put into account the student number as well, its not a big university, but regarding their productivity in technology use, treatments, inventions etc. not a weak place as well.
_______________________________

As for Lodz, its crying out its certainly something more than Wroclaw :
MUL | Medical University (http://www.umed.pl/eng/node/2)
Hospitals | Medical University (http://www.umed.pl/eng/node/61)
umed video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1bDr3lXYEE&lr=1&feature=mhum)

Is there any need to proceed? :) I dont go on, you can find all those info in the links above.

PS: I just wondered and checked that new hospital in Wroclaw and it came out to be a middle-size hospital with 500 beds. The good point is that every newly established system uses the latest version of technology. While the people in US using a gun-big cell phones, we were using the latest technology here in Turkey, not because we were more developed, but they had well-established older versions of tech (its impossible to change the whole infrastructure whenever you like), but we were following the developments with a delay. So the technology may be better in Woclaw than in Lodz, I dont know, but Lodz have 1,600 beds in total, which provides more patients and a wider spectrum of cases to see.
http://europe-health-care.eu/new-hospital-in-wroclaw/

bidiboom
04-21-2012, 02:12 AM
By the way, you can come and study in Turkey as well, but you need to start from scratch. Its pretty affordable ($1000-3000/year), all public programs are state subvensated and there are great schools here (with English/native programs), way better than some for-profit English programs in E-EU.

Also keep somewhere in your mind, maybe useful in future, you can earn minimum $3.000-3.500/month after gaining specialty in a field(this amount makes you live in Istanbul very comfortably, and in countryside, in lush and plush :D). The general practitioners can work as well (this drops that minimum wage as well though to about $2.000-3.000), but you need citizenship to work as GP. I mean GPs can work in public settings, but non-Turkish MDs can work only in private sector. Anyway, just for your info, years later someday it may work for you, culturally, linguistically and with a warm society, Turkey may fit the needs of your heart ;)

04-21-2012, 06:30 AM
By the way, you can come and study in Turkey as well, but you need to start from scratch. Its pretty affordable ($1000-3000/year), all public programs are state subvensated and there are great schools here (with English/native programs), way better than some for-profit English programs in E-EU.

Also keep somewhere in your mind, maybe useful in future, you can earn minimum $3.000-3.500/month after gaining specialty in a field(this amount makes you live in Istanbul very comfortably, and in countryside, in lush and plush :D). The general practitioners can work as well (this drops that minimum wage as well though to about $2.000-3.000), but you need citizenship to work as GP. I mean GPs can work in public settings, but non-Turkish MDs can work only in private sector. Anyway, just for your info, years later someday it may work for you, culturally, linguistically and with a warm society, Turkey may fit the needs of your heart ;)

Can you name some Turkey schools with 6 year programs, that are CMB approved. I can't find tuition fee info on their websites. Also, isn't foreign tuition fee higher?

bidiboom
04-21-2012, 07:44 AM
Monis hi, there is only one CMB approved program in Turkey, its Cerrahpasa in Istanbul, but just yesterday was the deadline for application. There are others which started CMB approval process, but it takes years, so it doesnt work for anybody looking for CMB approved programs, in near future. Turkish schools are not intl.student-oriented and for-profit, rather their purpose is to raise the native students in English, but spare some limited number of seats for foreign students as well, so you take the lectures in native classes, but the teaching language is English.
As for the tuitions, albeit the intl. students' tuition is higher than that of the natives, its subvensated as well. I think in Cerrahpasa it was.. about 3.000TL, but I dont remember clearly, but its about that much.

Sobky
04-21-2012, 11:53 AM
Turkish Medicine Schools Aha That Would Be Good I am Half Turkish By The Way But I Want A Medicine School To Let Me Work In Western Europe More Efficiently & I Don't Care About The Salary I Just Want To Practice Real Medicine In The Future That Is All :P , Bidiboom May Be I Will Send In In A Private Message My Motivation Letter

bidiboom
04-21-2012, 12:08 PM
Capslock capslock! :D

Its a beautiful coincidence! Do you have Turkish citizenship? In Turkey I see here and there some foreign doctors. Actually in one of the top-notch hospitals chain, Acibadem, there is an internist who is the regular doctor of some seniors of my family. He is from Saudi Arabia for instance, and he must be earning good. I know a rheumatologist for instance, again in a quality hospitals chain, who was earning 10.000TL/month, I have asked about the incomes. Even if you dont care it, money will be necessary for you the youngsters :)

As for practicing medicine, Turkey is very much developed by that regard. Last year one of university hospitals was No-1 in Europe and No-2 in the world in liver transplantation. Recently a couple of universities performed full face transplantations successfully. Also there are some first-in-the-world operations. Etc etc.. its a long story. But dont think that Turkey is a medicine heaven. Because historically there wasnt control mechanisms neither in education nor especially in practice, there were a lot many different types of doctors. It changed a lot in the last 10 years. Patient rights legislation, medical practice regulations, the communication, complaint and investigation mechanisms of Health Ministry, also the improvement in health care, those all changed the direction of the wind against of loose doctors.

By the way, this is very important Sobky: If you have Turkish citizenship, Turkey has great investments just started this year to create "Hospital Cities" which are health campuses in themselves, very big with 3000-bed capacities in various cities. They prepare for turning Turkey to a Health Hub in Eurasia region, also attracking patients from North America etc etc.. but they will be public institutions and with todays rules and regulations, you will need Turkish citizenship. They are planned to be finished as of 2015.

Sobky
04-21-2012, 12:36 PM
Well Sadly I Don;t Have A Turkish Citizenship , I Have Never Been To Turkey , I Was Born & Raised In Egypt But My Mother Has Turkish Roots That Is All I Am Only Turkish From Exterior & sorry about caps lock but i just love SHIFT button , I can quit medicine just to keep pushing that button :D

04-21-2012, 01:30 PM
Monis hi, there is only one CMB approved program in Turkey, its Cerrahpasa in Istanbul, but just yesterday was the deadline for application. There are others which started CMB approval process, but it takes years, so it doesnt work for anybody looking for CMB approved programs, in near future. Turkish schools are not intl.student-oriented and for-profit, rather their purpose is to raise the native students in English, but spare some limited number of seats for foreign students as well, so you take the lectures in native classes, but the teaching language is English.
As for the tuitions, albeit the intl. students' tuition is higher than that of the natives, its subvensated as well. I think in Cerrahpasa it was.. about 3.000TL, but I dont remember clearly, but its about that much.

I graduate high school in two years so hopefully some will be approved by then. What is required for admission for foreign students? Also, wow that's cheap about $1672 USD. Thanks for your help, bidiboom :D

bidiboom
04-21-2012, 02:52 PM
I graduate high school in two years so hopefully some will be approved by then. What is required for admission for foreign students? Also, wow that's cheap about $1672 USD. Thanks for your help

Thats great, then you have time. So please keep somewhere in your mind that Hacettepe in Ankara, the capital city, is the best among English programs. Cerrahpasa is in Istanbul.

As for admission requirements they were admitting with SAT until this year, but this year Hacettepe goes on to admit with SAT (and some other internationally recognized tests), but many others admit either by SAT or their own aptitude test, YOS, or left SAT altogether and admit by only YOS. YOS is to check aptitude and some math(there are books for trial tests in English, http://www.metropolyayinlari.com/263-yos-deneme-sinavlari-32-sinav.html). YOS has a Turkish part too, but its evaluated later. If you have a good score from aptitude part, but fail in Turkish, then you take a prep year to learn Turkish, thats mostly how they do it. At the time of your graduation you must check the changes in the system, and the details, there is still some time until then.

Out of those scores, the rest is classical paperwork: high school diploma or transcript, health report etc.

04-21-2012, 03:41 PM
Thats great, then you have time. So please keep somewhere in your mind that Hacettepe in Ankara, the capital city, is the best among English programs. Cerrahpasa is in Istanbul.

As for admission requirements they were admitting with SAT until this year, but this year Hacettepe goes on to admit with SAT (and some other internationally recognized tests), but many others admit either by SAT or their own aptitude test, YOS, or left SAT altogether and admit by only YOS. YOS is to check aptitude and some math(there are books for trial tests in English, METROPOL YAYINLARI - METROPOL PUBLICATIONS - YÖS Deneme S (http://www.metropolyayinlari.com/263-yos-deneme-sinavlari-32-sinav.html)). YOS has a Turkish part too, but its evaluated later. If you have a good score from aptitude part, but fail in Turkish, then you take a prep year to learn Turkish, thats mostly how they do it. At the time of your graduation you must check the changes in the system, and the details, there is still some time until then.

Out of those scores, the rest is classical paperwork: high school diploma or transcript, health report etc.

Is it competitive to get in? Whats the cost of living like? I know it's high in Istanbul
Are there Pakistanis and Americans there? I am American but of Pakistani origin

bidiboom
04-21-2012, 03:57 PM
Its definitely very competitive, but may be some countryside schools (the one thats Top-1 in Europe with liver transplantation for instance is in countryside, Inonu University, and the medical center of it is the best in the region), they may have softer admission criteria(for instance Inonu admits by GPA, I have recently talked with them for a friend, and they say, to blend all of the candidates in one test pool is not telling the story about the intl students, to evaluate them by their own criteria gives more clear idea, so they prefer GPA for American students). To give an idea about competition, the seat numbers of the schools for intl. students are changing between 1 to 14, every school has their own quota.

Cost of living changes a lot depending on the region: Istanbul is rather expensive, but a student may live on 1000TL I think(if s/he doesnt stay in dorm and shares a home with another student for instance). In countryside it drops 1/2 of it or even lower. I cant be clear, and I talk about only cost of living, not all expenses.

There are definitely many foreigners, especially in Istanbul, and Turkey is a young country. Also in Turkey you cant find European influence anymore, because American influence is widespread. People really got Americanized a lot :) I dont say that as a positive thing, to blend with other cultures is good, but to get Americanized that much, not. I think you dont feel alienated, Turks love foreigners and feel compassionate about especially the youngsters, you will be both :)

There are Pakistanis as well, from my childhood I remember there have been always some Paki students, but there is no Paki influence, culture, anything here. They are rather authentic for us. But Pakis are brothers, there is such a social conscious.

04-21-2012, 05:30 PM
Inonu has 10 seats and their English programs are not approved by CMB. Same with all the other schools in Turkey. Cerrahpasa is the only one approved and they have 6 seats, it's too competitive to be one of six. I really do hope other schools get approved by the time I graduate, as I'm really looking forward to Turkey. Thanks again for your help :D

bidiboom
04-22-2012, 12:00 AM
You're welcome. By the way, be careful about the so-called students here, they will try to cater you to some schools to earn money over you, and ValueMD is earning money from those schools as well. They try to stop me talking about this point, fair or unfairly, somehow. Just be careful about everybody, but especially devildoc8404 and drhokie.. the official representatives of the schools are not a problem, you may or may not work with them, but the "fellow american student"s may suck your A LOT of money for a misfitting school. Just be careful.

scar
04-23-2012, 07:47 AM
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