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bidiboom
03-19-2012, 02:17 AM
I placed this thread first in Lublin forum, but its a subject of Polish Medical Schools forum, so I wanted to place it here again. Sorry for the repititive threads.

I wrote here what I saw. This writing needs your personal processing, as others do as well.

1) Hope Medical Institute, HMI, is an agency. Like its peers, it provides a sercive which you can get on your own or over your school too, and charges for that service and makes money over this way. The point is that, its not only a cooperation between HMI and school, its a relationship between HMI and student, so student himself/herself pays for what they buy. HMI undertakes the US clinicals leg of some E-EU schools' programs, which is undertaken by some other E-EU schools directly and without any extra charge. Over that way they open a route for less/non-competitive/misfortunate US citizens to find a by-pass to get in US medical system.

2) The rumours go that, HMI makes favours to the students to make them provide benefits for HMI (like getting new prospectives to HMI). I think the ethics here is limited with the ethical stance of the student himself/herself; they may be honest, but may lie or twist as well. My observations make me think as well that this kind of relations may exist around.

3) Its established in 1995 (no info on HMI website, to look well-rooted, they constantly say "for many years").

4) They are affiliated with 4 med schools in E-EU which admit students with very very low criteria (like 15 MCAT). The schools are: Lublin, Silesia, Pomeranian, Bialystok; there was Debrecen as well, but I think that affiliation is ended.

5) Today in their 17 years of past, they could place 232 residents in US medical system, of whom 68 in Family Medicine, 89 in Internal and 77 in all other specialties. Appr.13-14 residents/year (though there may be a raising trend in time, but a steep trend is not likely). If only in one hospital, Wyckoff Heights, there are 70-80 students from HMI, then where do that 56-66 students evaporate at the end of clerkship?
(About total resident number: I came to a conclusion that the number of residents should be limited with what they placed in HMI website, 232, because Family and Internal Medicine are the specialties which are not that in high demand in US. In that 232 residents list, appr. 2 out of 3 are placed in those two specialties. If they would have more and better residents, I think they would naturally boast with them in both quality and quantity.)

6) Their cost is much higher then any med school in E-EU which affiliates with US hospitals individually without HMI or any other agent, because HMI undertakes the US-affiliation part of the E-EU universities for 82 weeks of US Clinical Experience, which is an offical pre-requisite for residency match in US (not as 82 week, actually 12/24 weeks are said to fit for residency matchs very well).
1st and 2nd years tuition fees = 4*$10.950 = appr. $44.000 (in the affiliated medical schools abroad, like Lublin, Silecia)
3rd and 4th year tution fees = (It doesnt take place in the website of Lublin, but regarding one of the posts of a 4th year student, its $19.000/year) 2*$19.000 = $38.000
3rd and 4th years = 82*$850 = appr. $70.000 ($850/week)
Institution Fee (one-time) = $10.000
Registration fee = $500
Rotation fee (one-time) = $1.000
Total fees = $125.500 or if they get 3rd/4th year tuitions as well its $163.500
The total above is only school+agent fees, it doesnt cover the payments for books, visa processes, flight tickets or living expenses.
(BTW, you can get the same US Clinical Experiences by getting in contact with the hospitals on your own as well, or your school itself may have affiliations with US hospitals and place you in an affiliated hospital in US for no extra charge.)

7) An important number of the students who use HMI route for 82 weeks of US Clinical Experience and go US, probably wont make it to the last point, residency match. If the claims of HMI people is true, then 70-80 of those students (this number is only in Wyckoff Heights in US, I dont know the total) go to US for USCE, but regarding ECFMG data (the organization from which an MD who graduates from a non-US school needs to get certificate by taking USMLE tests) all of the non-Polish graduates of all of the Polish med schools who could pass USMLE (not get residency yet!) are 79 in 2010. If more than 70-80 are coming only from HMI in 2012, then there must be a negligible number of grads from the Polish schools other than the affiliates of HMI, which is not reasonable. Either this 70-80 students' rotation is a lie, or HMI is a bleeding route for students. Which means, to pay a lot of money to lose at the end!

8) Clinical Setting in US : Regarding a Lublin student, HMI group (Lublin, Silesia et al.) basically are at Wyckoff Heights Medical Center. As a 350-bed center, its way far to be a university hospital. It serves to a diversified community and by that regard provides/may provide a wealth of cases in specific fields like infectious diseases or genetics, though how far I dont know, but because of the limitations of the infrastructure (they boast in their official website with recently having an MRI unit!) its impossible to have the spectrum of cases you can see in a university hospital. An acceptible university hospital never get down to that capacity, otherwise they cant teach really. Just as an example:

Wyckoff Heights (other affiliates of HMI are similar as well)
350 beds (adult+children) - 75.000 outpatients/year

Jagiellonian (many other universities are similar as well) -
1890 beds (adult+children) - 510.000 outpatients/year

For my comments on the clinical setting presentation of HMI:
http://www.valuemd.com/medical-unive...ml#post1438900 (http://www.valuemd.com/medical-university-lublin/222998-chances-4.html#post1438900)
(actually I suggest you to read all of the thread topdown, its beneficial.)

9) FOR NON_US CITIZENS : As with Carib. schools as well, the non-US citizens always have a risk of being stopped at visa barrier. If they have to stop at that point (or any point which I cant see), because they have gotten in the expensive track(with the expectation of USCE at 3rd and 4th years of 4-year program or 5th and 6th years of 6-year program) at first place, they will be have payed for 1st, 2nd and 3rd years more than regular fees (or 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th in 6-year program), but wont make it to US. Those fees are nonrefundable, they pay, and hit the head to the wall and cant get their money back.
____________________________

Until now it was all about a company, HMI. It may operate ethically or not, it works well for the students or not, thats the evaluation of a company. It sells this service, we may take it or leave it. But with Lublin, we cant leave HMI, we are bound to pay for it as well!

I didnt check other E-EU affiliates of HMI, but Lublin drives the North American students to that company. If you are North American and want to have your med education in Lublin, then you dont have another route other than HMI (actually not only North Americans, but all of the applicants who plans to have USCE in US as well, because they will have to apply Lublin only over HMI). Besides, even if you choose to have your 3rd and 4th year rotations in Poland, still you pay $144/week to HMI beside $418/week to Lublin. It seems so that Lublin feeds HMI with the money of irrelevant students as well. I think Lublin is running a profitable business rather than a university. This year they raised the 6-year program's fees 1.000Euros, from 9.000 to 10.000Euros as well.

For now and with this much information, I find Lublin pretty much unethical.

As for personal application and arrangement of electives (USCE) in US, there are a load of schools that provide this for way lower fees. Even Cornell, one of the universities HMI affiliates with provides three 4-week electives, which makes up 12 weeks of USCE, and guess what, if you yourself arrange it, it takes $6.000 (every elective is $2.000), while if you do it over HMI/Lublin couple, it goes up to 12*$850=$10.200.. the extra $4.200 goes to HMI/Lublin couple for making this arrangement for you.

Just beware...

bidiboom
03-19-2012, 02:19 AM
Discussion On HMI

Jan 4, 2012
"... The district attorney, one trustee said, was looking into whether Dr. Rao and another doctor had received payments from the Caribbean medical school, Spartan Health Sciences University in St. Lucia, based on the number of Spartan students that the hospital agreed to train during their crucial third year of medical school, a hands-on experience called a clinical clerkship... "
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/nyregion/brooklyn-prosecutor-investigating-wyckoff-heights-hospitals-management.html?_r=1

Jan 6, 2012
http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/221163-ding-dong-witch-wyckoff-good.html
(I suggest you to read the whole thread, but specifically this post of the thread gives an idea about the reputation of Wyckoff:
http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/221163-ding-dong-witch-wyckoff-good-2.html#post1429685
In business world the people in charge of reqruitment (in residency match, this is the program director) immediately sniff the smell of backgrounds. They dont value your A's you get from Wyckoff, because its given to most of the students there, let them deserve it or not.
_______________________

Class size is about 20-30 (in spring class, <20). If this is that much a good opportunity, why then dont all of the US/Canadian citizens who has high profiles with their high GPAs and MCAT scores, but just couldnt make it to a US/CA med school, rush to HMI? Even Carib. schools dont offer 2 years of clerkships, including core rotations as well!?
HMI is not new, that cant be the reason.
Lublin or Silesia are not new as well, this cant be a reson again.
The reason cant be cost as well, because for 2 years of 3rd and 4th year clerkships in US, you can pay a $50-60K more than other E-EU schools with loan, cant you?
But their class sizes are only about 20 to 30 and they admit with 15 MCAT! If they have really a good card, why then they dont have good/high admission criteria? If the class sizes would be 60-70 or 100, I would think that OK, they get everybody in, high or low profiles, it doesnt matter for them. But the class size, as they express many times in HMI website, is only about 20-30. I come to a conclusion that they dont have a high demand.

So why are they not in demand? Mor important than that, why is the number of residents in US who came through the path of HMI/Lublin+Silesia+Bialystok+Pomeranian altogether is 232 in 17 years of the past of HMI?

Because they are running a cheap business, I conclude. They are low quality, first, in their minds. They get low profile US students with 15 MCAT score, with only pass /fail result of USMLE Step-1 they open the gate for clerkships in US, they give to all of the students a lot of "A"s in Wyckoff Heights like poker cards, BUT!:

1) Most student who are caracteristically sloppy cant succeed in USMLE steps by SCORE, and program directors are interested in USMLE SCORES, not pass/fail results, nor the marks distributed generously at Wyckoff Heights. They hit their heads first here.

2) Some students who are not loser in nature, but comes from a misfortunate life, couldnt have opportunity, or woke up to their aspiration in medicine too late, come out as brillant med students, really work hard, really improve, and get really good scores in USMLE steps, Those FEW can make it.

SO, guys, look at yourself;
1) If you dont see a real aspiration to work really very hard, you will find yourself in a machinary which will rip your $170K and wont help you find a residency.

2) For the ones who are both weak in background(GPA, MCAT) AND can make it to a residency position, this path may be a good opportunity.

3) For the ones who has a good background and a good MCAT score, this HMI/Lublin, Silesia couple is too weak with its academic quality, both in basic sciences (problem with profs' written/spoken English, after 2d year the need to leave the school program altogether and to take off for 4-6months for USMLE step-1 prep, last year's loan loss which is the indicator of low USMLE score % of the school) and clinical experience. Eventually you may lose both money and quality. If you have a good background and scores, a better quality path may be more fruitful. You dont need 2 years of USCE, you need to find a residency match. USCE is valuable to provide this, but its an asset, though sine qua none, but the prerequisite is USMLE scores which looks pretty weak in HMI/Lublin path. Let alone to have a high average in all steps, they are at borderline even in USMLE step-1.

IMHO this HMI/Lublin (et al.) machinery is a business, not an academical ground. Just be careful. BUT in future if the state-of-mind of the administration changes altogether, if they start to administer a medical school instead of running business, then these ties may work to raise MDs who can successfully find residencies and have a future in US.

My 2cents..

devildoc8404
03-19-2012, 06:17 AM
bidiboom, I think this is a bit misguided, and I think that you are making some assumptions that I fear may not be completely accurate. We are not "on-the-ground" at Wyckoff, and you are making your decisions based solely on internet information, which is part of the picture, but still difficult at best.

Look, it certainly appears that Wyckoff is far from the finest hospital in the US... but it is still a legitimate teaching hospital (with a Cornell affiliation, no matter how much someone might try to diminish that fact). They have a broad array of residencies at Wyckoff, and it is impossible for you (or me) to comment knowledgeably on the level of clinical education there. DrHokie is there right now. S/he freely admits that HMI is horrible, but it does not sound to me like the quality of the clinical education has been sub-par. I dare say that it has probably surpassed the quality of my own, at any rate, and I am at major E-EU teaching hospitals in Sofia. Grade inflation during clinicals is common almost everywhere in the States, bidiboom. No, a residency PD is not going to look at Wyckoff USCE and say "WOW!" -- but it is a far cry better than not having any USCE at all, and it can get people into a residency. FM/IM are not always the most competitive residencies, but many people want to enter them for medical practice, so this is certainly a path to that goal.

HMI is admittedly horrible, but they are the deal-with-the-devil that certain North American students need to make if they want to attend the affiliated Polish schools. It sucks, yes, but it is what it is. When I first came to E-EU I said that I would never pay an agency for application to a school... but now I seriously wonder if it might not have been better to pay them and have all of my clinicals at US hospitals.

The simple fact is that -- despite how much they suck -- HMI are one of the few agencies that actually offers USCE for the clinical years. None of the agencies here in Bulgaria offer that. Even if that is the ONLY good thing that you can say about HMI, that is an absolutely huge consideration.

The fact that students at Lublin do not seem to be blowing the top off the USMLE cannot be remotely surprising, considering the school's more relaxed admissions criteria. Jagiellonian has far more stringent admissions standards than the other Polish schools, so it should follow that their students do better on the USMLE (and probably in the Match, as well).

Yes, people need to be aware of the realities of HMI/Lublin/Silesia from the outset. However, it is one viable path to the goal. Your advice of "Be Careful" is excellent in any case, but I don't think the outlook (for SERIOUS students who end up there) is as dire as you seem to believe.

bidiboom
03-19-2012, 01:07 PM
Wyckoff is not a safe place DD, if you read the link in my previous post about it, and follow the story in internet you will see that.

Besides Cornell doesnt send its medical student to Wycoff for anything out of very superficial two subjects in 1st and 2nd years. Besides there is not a wee bit data about Cornell residents in Wyckoff. So: Cornell is a nice face for us, nomore, and HMI/Lublin is using this impression. Prospectives shouldnt be fooled with it. Wyckoff has nothing to do with Cornell or Columbia in essence.

Besides the education is too limited for a 2-year time slice(case variety again, they get honed in a limited spectrum). Its far away to the optimum. 3 4-week electives in US is enough as USCE, as people say, to get LoRs and a residency(lets make it 6 for you :) ). Of course if its in Harvard and for 2 years, that would be great. But for intl. students the USCE clinical settings wont be as satisfactory as real university hospitals (I dont mean those complementary affiliates, I mean real university hospitals like in Jag).

So I said if a student is good in background and MCAT score, but still couldnt make it to a US school, then instead of getting in a professional school with a low success level in USMLE (actually in education!), and burying their 2 years in a limited clinical setting with an unethical background, its better to get in an academical school with a serious quality and success rate, as much as possible, and to share his/her clinical experiences between USCE and his/her own university hospital at optimum level(3-6 months of USCE + the rest in his/her own university hospital), works way better in long term. I am afraid to choose the route HMI/Lublin offers, for today, is a seriously bad decision for a good US/CA student.

bidiboom
03-19-2012, 01:24 PM
DD may I ask, what is the specifics of Sofia(bed no/inpatient/outpatient numbers etc.)? I wonder one more thing, in Turkey (I think in Europe too), during clinical years (last 3 of 6) your own teachers lead you in clinics and they themselves teach. In US is it the residents or other medical students? Dont the profs teach at bedside? The systems are very different, so I wanted to understand clearly.
If you have some time available.. thanks :)

devildoc8404
03-19-2012, 02:43 PM
I honestly don't know the bed numbers for the various hospitals at MU-Sofia. There are a ton of specialized hospitals and if I can find it I will let you know. I'm going to the Dekanat tomorrow for some paperwork stuff and maybe they will have some information.

In the US you are taught by residents and attendings... not (officially) by other medical students. Here in Sofia it depends largely on the department. It can vary substantially.

devildoc8404
03-19-2012, 03:19 PM
Wyckoff is in a pretty terrible area... and this is a delightful trait shared with a good number of hospitals in the US. Heck, the Harvard and Boston University teaching hospitals in Boston are not in places that I would want to walk at night. I know a guy who went to Columbia for med school, and it is in an utterly horrible part of NYC. That is neither here nor there... and FWIW, it does often offer excellent clinical exposure to trauma and variance in pathologies, etc.

I would hesitate to diminish the value of the MS1 and MS2 clinical introductions for Cornell medical students. That is the initial exposure to clinical medicine, and it matters. No, Wyckoff is not great, and I'm not saying that it is. It is a university affiliate, not a university hospital, and it cannot hope to be considered on the same level. None of the Cornell Med grads are likely to be heading to Wyckoff for residency, but so what? The places where these kids are headed for residency are not going to be lining up to accept FMGs anyway... they are not really our competition. On the other hand, Wyckoff might well be an option for residency, and you know what? I would take a Wyckoff residency in my specialty of choice in a friggin' heartbeat. I pretty much relinquished my right to moan loudly about locations when I had to finish medical school overseas.

The simple fact is that it looks better for students to be able to complete their clinical rotations in the States, bidiboom. Even at Wyckoff. It gets you more opportunities for US LORs, and it gets you more USCE overall, which matters. Yeah, 12 weeks might get it done, but what if it doesn't? Jag has a good reputation, but it is far from universally known in the US. USCE is better than overseas, unless you are at someplace earth-shatteringly good, and working with a Nobel laureate or something like that.

I totally agree with you that relatively competitive students who cannot -- for whatever reason -- gain admission to a US MD or DO school should NOT consider HMI/Lublin/Silesia as their first alternative. No way. There are far better overseas options. But if those don't work out, then at least HMI/Lublin/Silesia have 50 state approval, and loans, and USCE. Even at Wyckoff. And I have to say that is a darn sight better than what I personally have at this juncture. I mean, OK, I made my decisions, and I'll certainly live with them, and I hope that my CV and experience will see me through when the time comes... but it would have been a much easier row to how if I'd had those kinds of options.

bidiboom
03-20-2012, 01:57 AM
I agree, when DrHokie talked about immigrant population it made me think the same way as you say: there must be a lot of trauma and especially diversity in infectious diseases, maybe genetic disorders as well, I dont know. Besides Wyckoff is not a little clinic, its a mid-range center. No problem at that point. But as you pointed out as well, it doesnt provide a university hospital education. That makes it inappropriate to be bound in for 2 years. Ayh until they have been busted two months ago, the people there were eating the moneys of intl.students DD, its disgusting yah! :(

As for you, you know what DD, I have no, zero, null :D doubt that you will be a great doctor, God willing. Thats naturally what you are already, you just complete it with more studies and experiences. Some come and go through this "job" for many reasons, but to be a doctor as you are for them is like red for a congenital blind: They will never know. You have that heart, personality and sprituality. Honestly I would prefer you to teach me instead of an irrelevant, soulless Harvard prof: some teachers/doctors give life and some kill because. I remember a nurse who was working in the hospital we stayed too. One of a cancer patient said someday what : "I dont want to come and have this chemotherapy anymore, I dont want anything. But you are here, just because of you I come here."

Thats what you will be, I feel this very strongly my dear friend. I mean it. The rest is detail.

devildoc8404
03-20-2012, 12:55 PM
Those are some extremely kind words, bidiboom. Thank you, and I really hope that I can live up to that standard!

Yes, there have certainly been a spate of problems at Wyckoff. However, many US medical schools offer medical education at these types of affiliated medical centers... it is not only found at university hospitals. Regardless, as is the case here in Sofia, the wise student will make the most of whatever teaching situation. Sometimes that is harder than others, but if you seek out the good teachers and the right situations, things can work out well.

NUHS-AUC
03-20-2012, 02:19 PM
Never heard of this school before...is that a new program ? (English program)

devildoc8404
03-20-2012, 02:40 PM
"Wyckoff" refers to the teaching hospital in New York. It is not a new medical school program.

lawmed
03-25-2012, 11:43 PM
I placed this thread first in Lublin forum, but its a subject of Polish Medical Schools forum, so I wanted to place it here again. Sorry for the repititive threads.


6) Their cost is much higher then any med school in E-EU which affiliates with US hospitals individually without HMI or any other agent, because HMI undertakes the US-affiliation part of the E-EU universities for 82 weeks of US Clinical Experience, which is an offical pre-requisite for residency match in US (not as 82 week, actually 12/24 weeks are said to fit for residency matchs very well).
1st and 2nd years tuition fees = 2*$10.950 = appr. $22.000 (in the affiliated medical schools abroad, like Lublin, Silecia)
3rd and 4th year tution fees = (It doesnt take place in the website of Lublin, but regarding one of the posts of a 4th year student, its $19.000/year) 2*$19.000 = $38.000
3rd and 4th years = 82*$850 = appr. $70.000 ($850/week)
Institution Fee (one-time) = $10.000
Registration fee = $500
Rotation fee (one-time) = $1.000
Total fees = $103.500 or if they get 3rd/4th year tuitions as well its $141.500
The total above is only school+agent fees, it doesnt cover the payments for books, visa processes, flight tickets or living expenses.
(BTW, you can get the same US Clinical Experiences by getting in contact with the hospitals on your own as well, or your school itself may have affiliations with US hospitals and place you in an affiliated hospital in US for no extra charge.)


___

Great research bidiboom. I'd like to nail down the precise cost of the fixed tuition and fees as of now. From the HMI website data, I calculate the total 4-year tuition and fees cost at HMI's Polish schools as:

HMI-USCE
Yr 1 $21,950 (2x $10,950)
Yr 2 $21,950 (2x $10,950)
Yr 3 $34,809 (41 weeks x $842)
Yr 4 $34,809 (41 weeks x $842)
$10,000 non-refundable program fee
Total = $123,418

HMI- Polish Clinicals
Yr 1 $21,950 (2x $10,950)
Yr 2 $21,950 (2x $10,950)
Yr 3 $23,042 (41 weeks x $562)
Yr 4 $23,042 (41 weeks x $562)
$10,000 non-refundable program fee
Total = $99,844

I realize this does NOT include housing, food etc.

I am doing this calculation because I literally have the HMI application and am completing it right now! I appreciate your warnings about HMI. :wink: Considering your commentary which I am confident is on target, it may not be worth it. Still, I want to know the exact out of pocket cost so that I can make the most informed decision possible on whether it is worth it.

Please let me know if you disagree with my calculations Bidiboom. For reasons outlined so articulately by Devildoc, I am seriously considering the HMI program, but I cannot afford any "surprises" concerning costs after I get started.

I think other readers will benefit from an exact stipulation of the cost of the HMI/Poland medical program.

bidiboom
03-26-2012, 03:40 AM
Lawmed hi,

The other day coincidentially I saw that I was wrong in 1st and 2nd year tuitions and corrected my calculation in some of my posts, but obviously I must have skipped this one(and now corrected :rolleyes:). Its not 10.950 per year, but for semestre. So the total of 1st/2nd years makes appr.$44.000, not $22.000. Your calculation is correct to me too, but another Lublin 4th year student (and promotes the school a lot, so I take his words about fees to be true) said in one of his posts that there were 3rd and 4th year $19.000/year tuition fees as well, which makes $38.000. If its valid for today too, you must take into account that as well. Generally speaking the schools dont waive those fees, but rather they rise every year slightly, but in Lublin this year they rised 6-year program fees 1.000Euro, not a slight rise! So I dont expect them to waive those 3rd and 4th year tuition fees. Its a good idea to clarify this point.

One more point, I started this thread first in Lublin's forum, later I thought it would be better to start it in Polish Schools Forum and started the same thread here too. But the one in Lublin Forum proceeded too with a hot debate about HMI and its affiliates. It may be useful to take a look at it for you:
http://www.valuemd.com/medical-university-lublin/223147-hope-medical-institute-careful-2.html

Hope this helps.. and thank you for compliment :) I dont make research around much, but this one seriously drew my attention.

bidiboom
03-29-2012, 01:34 PM
Be Careful Again!
Nowadays Hope Medical Institute started an advertisement with a chic phrase:
"Our affiliated universities have trained over 40,000 physicians in over 60 years."

1) This is not what Hope Medical Institute produced, it may be(?) the productivity of some Polish universities.
2) The point is that, its the productivity of the native programs of those universities. The English programs are very very very limited in total graduate number. 40,000 is a datum (is it accurate?) out of HMI and the English programs of Polish med schools. Its de facto the number of the native programs.
3) HMI is established in 1995, it has a 17 years of past. 60 years of education belongs to again the native programs of those Polish schools, not English programs. The most active affiliate of HMI is Lublin and its English program is established 11 years ago, not 60!
4) Again: The number of the graduates who could find a residency is 232, not 40,000! Read the whole thread and you will get it.

Just be careful. They are simply, brazenly sell something they dont produce.

RUSYN85
09-13-2012, 09:36 AM
"I totally agree with you that relatively competitive students who cannot -- for whatever reason -- gain admission to a US MD or DO school should NOT consider HMI/Lublin/Silesia as their first alternative. No way." ...what should be my alternative in your opinion???

RUSYN85
09-13-2012, 09:39 AM
so Lublin has lost their loan eligibility?

RUSYN85
09-13-2012, 09:50 AM
I'm from Chicago and I see that they are affiliated with Weiss Memorial Hospital. What is the chance of working in that hospital in the 3rd and 4th years?

devildoc8404
09-13-2012, 11:06 AM
"I totally agree with you that relatively competitive students who cannot -- for whatever reason -- gain admission to a US MD or DO school should NOT consider HMI/Lublin/Silesia as their first alternative. No way." ...what should be my alternative in your opinion???

Ireland/UK.
Big 4 Carib.
W-EU (Germany, etc., if you can speak the language.)
Jagiellonian.
...not necessarily in that order, depending on the person.

so Lublin has lost their loan eligibility?

According to my buddy, who is boots-on-the-ground in Lublin, as well as several posters on VMD, they have regained loan eligibility.

I'm from Chicago and I see that they are affiliated with Weiss Memorial Hospital. What is the chance of working in that hospital in the 3rd and 4th years?

That would be a question for the HMI people, but my guess would be "pretty damn high."

RUSYN85
09-13-2012, 11:18 AM
thank you for the reply devildoc..so would you recommend any other 4yr programs in Poland besides JAG?..is your friend in the Lublin's 4YR?..what about Poznan, Warszaw, Lodz, Katowice?

devildoc8404
09-13-2012, 11:30 AM
I would recommend the other options before Poland, especially Ireland/UK and Big-4 Carib... but within Poland, I would recommend Jag.

My friend told me directly that he would not recommend Lublin or any of the other HMI-affiliated schools, except as a last resort. I concur generally with that assessment -- they can probably get you there, but there are better options.

Warsaw seems good, but it does not have 50-state approval in the US. Same with Gdansk-Danzig, and they only have a 6-year program, as I recall.

Just my .02.







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