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TeamBringIt
02-01-2012, 09:55 PM
My Stats:
Gen chem 1: A
Gen chem 2: A
Biology 1: A
Biology 2: A
Calc: C+
Organic 1: C
Physics: In progress
MCAT to be taken hopefully this upcoming fall.
Feed back would be appreciated :D

beachfan112
02-02-2012, 12:18 PM
Study hard for the MCAT and apply to American MD and DO schools.

TeamBringIt
02-02-2012, 09:15 PM
Did you attend St. Matthews?

beachfan112
02-03-2012, 11:56 AM
Yes. DO NOT attend SMU, unless you want to be manipulated, cheated, lied to, and taken advantage of. What is your cumulative GPA? It sounds like you still have some more classes to go before you are ready to apply Do not make Caribbean schools your goal, unless your gpa is below a 3.0. There are plenty of American DO schools that take lower GPAs, and they will open up many opportunities that are simply closed to Caribbean graduates. If you are forced to consider a Caribbean school,limit yourself to the top two: St. Georges and Ross University.

TeamBringIt
02-03-2012, 01:35 PM
My overall is a 3.6. But please be more specific about how "bad" st matthews is. I mean they have graduated MDs that have gotten into residencies.

devildoc8404
02-03-2012, 02:11 PM
For crying out loud, almost any of the incredibly crappy schools in the Carib (or elsewhere) "have graduated MDs that have gotten into residencies." THAT is going to be your criterion?

For your educational investment of a pantload of time and money, you should be looking for the school(s) that will optimize your chances for success and make things as organized and supportive as possible. I don't attend SMU, and I don't have first-hand knowledge of anything about the place, but I will tell you that the sheer number of negative posts about the school on VMD would give me serious pause. I attend a school with incredibly poor organizational skills in most things, and I cannot adequately convey to you how unbelievably frustrating and inefficient it is to deal with administrative crap at every turn. Again, I'm not at SMU, but I'm just saying... read up.

FWIW, if I were looking at the Carib, I would only look at the Big 4, and probably not all of them. However, far and freaking away, your first options should be your state MD program, assuming you have one, and the DO schools in the US. It's not even close, especially if you are somehow considering lower tier schools in the islands. A 3.6 GPA and a decent showing on the MCAT could keep you in the US for medical school, and increase the number and types of residencies available to you by a dramatic amount.

It's your career, be smart about it. Yes, SMU could conceivably get you to your goal... but is SMU the most reliable, organized, stable, and intelligent choice? Will SMU make this already challenging medical trek easier and smoother, or more difficult and rockier? I don't know, but that is what you need to determine. It sounds like you have plenty of reading to do, so I won't comment further to keep you from it. Good luck...



My overall is a 3.6. But please be more specific about how "bad" st matthews is. I mean they have graduated MDs that have gotten into residencies.

TeamBringIt
02-03-2012, 02:47 PM
Hey devildoc, after you said "don't attend SMU, and I don't have first-hand knowledge of anything about the place" you said too many words past that so what you say means nothing to me due to its lack of crediability. And again your not being specific at all. Be more specific and intelligent than "adminstrative crap"

And BTW, dont get frustrated over a simple question. We all get the courage in front of a computer screen and on the keyboard but dont get out of line FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

cardiomegaly
02-03-2012, 03:10 PM
Try MD school first then try DO and if that doesnt work then apply to SGU, AUC, or Ross before you apply to SMU. I know people who are in residency now that went to SMU but these other schools have a better reputation.

Dr Rich
02-03-2012, 04:47 PM
Will I get accepted?

You are already accepted: you are part of the school admin impersonating a prospective student. Now it's time for you to accept it :rolleyes:

devildoc8404
02-03-2012, 05:40 PM
By all means, then, feel free to ignore advice from someone who is approaching the tail end of the med school slog. Your call.

The fact is that it would have been easy to slander SMU based on the wealth of second-hand information available on VMD, as is often the case. Instead, in the interest of full disclosure, I was totally up-front with you on my attendance elsewhere. If that renders my opinion worthless in your reckoning, then by golly, that's just fine with me. Trust me, I won't lose any sleep over where you do or do not spend your tuition dollar.

However, I'm not clear on what part of "attend a US school if you can" lacks credibility. I'm also not completely certain why competent and supportive medical school administration would not be important to you as a potential student. If you want specifics about the frustrations inherent to shoddy administration, then I'm sure that you can "specifically and intelligently" utilize the search function on this website. There are scads of complaints from students at overseas medical schools which are poorly run.

If my first post sounded frustrated to you, it was likely because my daughter had soaked her diaper on my leg in mid-type, it had nothing to do with you... although I did find your reasoning incredibly short-sighted. Perhaps I should have put a smiley face after "THAT is going to be your criterion?"

Finally, that "courage in front of a computer screen" comment is just plain silly. Nothing stated above has required courage in the tiniest amount... it was typing words on a keyboard. The list of things that require courage does not generally include VMD posts, in my experience.

Good luck, and good night.


Hey devildoc, after you said "don't attend SMU, and I don't have first-hand knowledge of anything about the place" you said too many words past that so what you say means nothing to me due to its lack of crediability. And again your not being specific at all. Be more specific and intelligent than "adminstrative crap"

And BTW, dont get frustrated over a simple question. We all get the courage in front of a computer screen and on the keyboard but dont get out of line FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

TeamBringIt
02-03-2012, 07:47 PM
Ok devildoc, I have some ADVICE for you though too. In order to be a better parent dont be on VMD while watching your kid. Your daughter is more important than the time you spend on here giving bad advice/ not knowing what your really talking about. Wait wait wait wheres the smiliy face??!?!?!?......... :D

EQUALITY
02-04-2012, 07:49 PM
There are many licensed MD physicians that have graduated from st. matthews university. yes the island is more expensive to live then say dominic, and grenada, but you are getting a very modern island with world class cusine, living arrangements, safety, etc. it is less money than living in new york city, los angeles, etc. so when i hear people saying the country is expensive well then don't go there or to a usa school in a city that is expensive. I can't rave more about Grand cayman and with the ease to get there from us, and all modern amenities, and modern educational instituitions.

The school is approved in NY and florida state. Just missing california, New Jersey does not have a board any longer to approve for clinical rotations, but you can do a residency in new jersey, and be licensed there. Also keep in mind smu allows you to do new york state rotations, and the owner of the school is a select member of the new york board. The school is having a tough time in this economy for the past couple of years because of not many loan alternatives.

You are far better off with an offshore MD then a USA DO. People to this day are confused on what a DO is, and people don't have the same respect.

SMU is an excellent alternative.

sirloinMD
02-04-2012, 09:11 PM
this is wrong. DO is much better and easier to obtain a residency. and your also wrong on DOs not getting respect. Im doing my intern year in em with md and dos, we both get the same respect. ignorant comments like this without any knowledge of how professionals act is why people thing that dos are inferior. Im an md but have worked with great doctors who are do's. that being said... u need the best opportunity for a residency which is easier for a U S do than an img md... bottom line. and bottom line... st Matthew's is harder to obtain a residency than st George or Ross. simply look at the last match list for schools. its simple man. common sense.

beachfan112
02-04-2012, 09:51 PM
There are many licensed MD physicians that have graduated from st. matthews university. yes the island is more expensive to live then say dominic, and grenada, but you are getting a very modern island with world class cusine, living arrangements, safety, etc. it is less money than living in new york city, los angeles, etc. so when i hear people saying the country is expensive well then don't go there or to a usa school in a city that is expensive. I can't rave more about Grand cayman and with the ease to get there from us, and all modern amenities, and modern educational instituitions.

The school is approved in NY and florida state. Just missing california, New Jersey does not have a board any longer to approve for clinical rotations, but you can do a residency in new jersey, and be licensed there. Also keep in mind smu allows you to do new york state rotations, and the owner of the school is a select member of the new york board. The school is having a tough time in this economy for the past couple of years because of not many loan alternatives.

You are far better off with an offshore MD then a USA DO. People to this day are confused on what a DO is, and people don't have the same respect.

SMU is an excellent alternative.

^Complete **. Equality is really an SMU employee/administrator. Don't believe Equality's misleading post.

How do I know Equality is posting on behalf of SMU? Because very, VERY few students at SMU are even aware that the owner of SMU is on the NY Board. Even fewer people outside of SMU are privy to this information. Only an SMU employee/official would know such info. Furthermore, Equality's lil "pro-SMU" propoganda is very, very similar to the outrageously misleading words the administration tells the students. Busted.

If Equality were in fact a current student at SMU, he/she would have very different feedback. Not a single student at SMU believes the school is a great institution; our feelings range from vicious hatred to civil indifference. No one is pro-SMU, everyone either hates it with a passion, or feels like the school is ridiculous and is just trying to keep their heads down and get through school.

If anyone is truly considering SMU, talk to a CURRENT student personally to get the most up-to-date information. DO NOT believe anything positive about SMU on these forums; SMU has shown that they will cheat, lie, mislead, and manipulate people with no remorse.

And TeamBringIt, if you would like specific information on how the school is nosediving and how exactly they are manipulating their students, please refer to my posts in the "why to avoid SMU" thread. I've posted on the 2nd and 3rd page a very long and detailed explanation of just how much SMU is destroying students' futures.

Dr Rich
02-06-2012, 06:31 PM
Ok devildoc, I have some ADVICE for you though too. In order to be a better parent dont be on VMD while watching your kid. Your daughter is more important than the time you spend on here giving bad advice/ not knowing what your really talking about. Wait wait wait wheres the smiliy face??!?!?!?......... :D

Wow, personal we are getting here! Friendships that used to be... :rolleyes:

axiomofchoice
02-06-2012, 09:24 PM
IMG better than DO? Thats not even worth addressing.

Why are you even on this board. You haven't finished college or taken the MCAT. Did you just give up when you got bad grades in Calc and Orgo. Finish school, take the MCAT, get rejected from US MD AND DO schools TWICE, then come back here and consider applying to the Big3/4/5 or whatever it is in 3 years.

diabeticmedic
02-20-2012, 07:18 AM
Caribb MD is NOT better than a DO. I am not going to be long-winded. Check out Caribb match lists. Then check out the match list for any DO school. For example, my sister is a 3rd year in a DO school. Her boyfriend just matched into his first choice orthopedic surgery program, and her room mate also matched into her first choice orthopedic surgery program. That's two students I can name off the top of my head in this year's DO match. How many people from SMU matched into ortho in the last 10 years?

Only 50% of IMGs match. How is IMG a better option exactly?

charlessmu
02-20-2012, 09:28 PM
The point is not how many Orthos we match. If you want Ortho or Derm you must score very high on MCAT and get into US med school.
There are options where you can get into a transitional year for 1st year of residency and then switch to other specialty.
It is a general norm that most of IMGs match in FM and IM.
Many have moved on to more lucrative fields after their first year or after they accomplish in FM or IM.
For the age of SMU, it has quite an impressive placement record.

thxleave
02-21-2012, 03:21 AM
Nothing to argue here. US MD is first choice to go if you want to practice in the United States. It's just that 50% IMG match number that I want to clarify.

That's the first year match, but after five years 75% of people that attempted receive a residency.
International medical graduate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_medical_graduate#Progress) - The article uses Participation in U.S. Graduate Medical Education by Graduates of International Medical Schools as citation.

Odds increase further if you are an US IMG which reaches around 85% average: Data a bit old, last published 2006.
The International Medical Graduate Pipeline: Recent Trends In Certification And Residency Training (http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/25/2/469/T4.expansion.html)

Another article shows it to be 91.6% for USIMG: Article published 2009.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/28/1/226/T1.expansion.html

The 2004 data is incomplete so match number showered lower then expected. I'm not arguing what people are saying here. I just don't know why people keep bringing 50% over and over. It sounds like people are implying that 50% of people attempting to match gets matched at all. I don't know, maybe I'm reading this wrong. I hope someone can bring light to this. Even if I'm proven wrong. Not to say everyone attending Caribbean ends up taking ECFMG, due to attrition.

diabeticmedic
02-21-2012, 05:36 AM
Nothing to argue here. US MD is first choice to go if you want to practice in the United States. It's just that 50% IMG match number that I want to clarify.

That's the first year match, but after five years 75% of people that attempted receive a residency.
International medical graduate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_medical_graduate#Progress) - The article uses Participation in U.S. Graduate Medical Education by Graduates of International Medical Schools as citation.

Odds increase further if you are an US IMG which reaches around 85% average: Data a bit old, last published 2006.
The International Medical Graduate Pipeline: Recent Trends In Certification And Residency Training (http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/25/2/469/T4.expansion.html)

Another article shows it to be 91.6% for USIMG: Article published 2009.
U.S. Citizens Who Obtain Their Medical Degrees Abroad: An Overview, 1992 (http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/28/1/226/T1.expansion.html)

The 2004 data is incomplete so match number showered lower then expected. I'm not arguing what people are saying here. I just don't know why people keep bringing 50% over and over. It sounds like people are implying that 50% of people attempting to match gets matched at all. I don't know, maybe I'm reading this wrong. I hope someone can bring light to this. Even if I'm proven wrong. Not to say everyone attending Caribbean ends up taking ECFMG, due to attrition.

I don't know where you got these articles but they're all wrong. People keep saying 50% because it's 50%. Check out the data from the NRMP (National Residency Match Program). These people know the numbers because, well, they make the numbers. Scroll down and check out page 12 of the pdf. Everyone matching knows this 50% number. It is not a rumor, it is published by the match program.

94.1 percent of U.S. allopathic seniors were matched in 2011, higher than the 2010 figure of 93.3 percent and one of the highest since 1982.
 50.0 percent of U.S. citizens trained in international medical schools were matched, up from the 2010 figure of 47.3 percent.
 The match rate for non-U.S. citizens trained in international medical schools rose for the first time in six years, from 39.8 percent in 2010 to 40.9 in 2011.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf

diabeticmedic
02-21-2012, 05:38 AM
In fact, here, please look at this yourselves. There are more match results on the website.

And just so there's no confusion, these numbers have nothing to do with attrition rates. This means that of the 100% of IMGs that enter the match, 50% of the IMGs get matched. Now, yes, people do get pre matches. However, DOs also get prematched so whatever you want to add to the US IMGs number, add the same to the DOs.

NRMP: Data and Reports (http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html)

diabeticmedic
02-21-2012, 05:43 AM
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thxleave
02-21-2012, 05:58 AM
I didn't mention anything about DO. That itself is a diff issue. As for the articles it mention residencies which encompass pre match and reapplicants. NRMP only includes that one year. The articles I used are popular legitimate peer review publications in journal which has proven reputable. WSJ and pubmed use their journals. I agree with most of your points diabeticmedic. I just wanted to see and put perspective in that famed 50% quote.

diabeticmedic
02-22-2012, 05:50 AM
I didn't mention anything about DO. That itself is a diff issue. As for the articles it mention residencies which encompass pre match and reapplicants. NRMP only includes that one year. The articles I used are popular legitimate peer review publications in journal which has proven reputable. WSJ and pubmed use their journals. I agree with most of your points diabeticmedic. I just wanted to see and put perspective in that famed 50% quote.

Yes, the DO is a different issue. Interesting articles, but if you look at exhibit 5 in the last article you posted, you will see that 15,672 US IMGs applied, and 9,932 of them were active in the AMA. This means that only 63% of those who applied are working as physicians. The 92% number you mentioned refers to the number of people who were ECFMG certified. That 92% number is misleading; it means that of the 100% of people who were ECFMG certified (meaning they met the requirements to graduate from medical school and obtain residency in the US) 92% were working.

The article states that 63% of US IMGs find a job. I guess that means that 50% match and roughly 13% of people get into residency through pre match and scramble.

cardiomegaly
02-22-2012, 08:53 AM
No more prematch after this year...:(

thxleave
02-22-2012, 06:00 PM
Whoa. Sounds like the 50% is near accurate. But, having ECFMG certification ready brings up your odds drastically. As for pre match disappearing. I heard it benefits us more then hurt. If you are qualified to get offered a prematch, you are qualified to get that residency. Hurts barely passing people only.

diabeticmedic
02-22-2012, 08:41 PM
Whoa. Sounds like the 50% is near accurate. But, having ECFMG certification ready brings up your odds drastically. As for pre match disappearing. I heard it benefits us more then hurt. If you are qualified to get offered a prematch, you are qualified to get that residency. Hurts barely passing people only.

I'm not sure how the schools used to do it, as the article we've been talking about studied students from 1992-2001. The problem with discussing ECFMG certification is that most people aren't ECFMG certified when they enter the match. Caribb students are not ECFMG certified until they graduate, and it seems the majority apply to the match before graduation. However, as Caribbs, we graduate at different times of the year and thus become ECFMG certified at different times of the year. Not sure how many people graduate way off cycle and apply.

Regardless, the numbers we need to look at are 1) how many people match vs. don't match, and 2) how many people are in a residency program come July 1st. Idk if they publish that info, but from the info we have from 1992-2001, it seems about 63% of US IMGs started a residency.

And idk about how the prematch disappearing will hurt/help us. In my experience, it is a blessing for people with crappy stats who get them, and a curse for people who have good stats and don't want to take the prematch at a crappy place (as many crappy places offer prematches while many good ones do not). Also, there are some programs now that don't even go through the match and prematch everyone. If I understand, next year, it will be "all or none". Either the program does all prematches or no prematches. Any program that prematches people cannot match anyone through the NRMP.

I think the old valuemd saying applies here...if you're in this already..."just study hard and get your stuff done". I mean, all of this info we've discussed is valuable so we know what we're up against, but what else can you do? Study HARD and make the right moves and you'll be one of those ~63%.

charlessmu
02-23-2012, 12:58 PM
I agree to the above post absolutely.
Is there anyone thinking that everyone who gets admitted to the "big 4" schools get to the 5th. Of course not so it is up yo YOU to study as the school can only teach you and examine you.
Good post!

charlessmu
02-23-2012, 05:42 PM
HOLY COW!
I am off this forum now and right now. I seriously thought these posters were current or past students. Pretty scary and personally threatening PMs.
You guys are living in a pretty DARK world out there man. Feel sorry for you and the forum readers.
Never will I visit this forum again!

diabeticmedic
02-23-2012, 07:20 PM
For the record, I am a former student of SMU and did not PM charlessmu! What happened charles?

BrendaB_MD
02-24-2012, 12:45 AM
The match stats from NRMP shows that 50% of those who actually participate in the match succeed. But, this does not count those who obtain positions outside of the match. The ECFMG has published a number of articles in the journal, Academic Medicine, showing the number who take Step I who eventually are registered with the AMA. The numbers are not pretty, but they are better than 50%. Do a search, look up the studies.



I don't know where you got these articles but they're all wrong. People keep saying 50% because it's 50%. Check out the data from the NRMP (National Residency Match Program). These people know the numbers because, well, they make the numbers. Scroll down and check out page 12 of the pdf. Everyone matching knows this 50% number. It is not a rumor, it is published by the match program.

94.1 percent of U.S. allopathic seniors were matched in 2011, higher than the 2010 figure of 93.3 percent and one of the highest since 1982.
 50.0 percent of U.S. citizens trained in international medical schools were matched, up from the 2010 figure of 47.3 percent.
 The match rate for non-U.S. citizens trained in international medical schools rose for the first time in six years, from 39.8 percent in 2010 to 40.9 in 2011.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf

devildoc8404
02-24-2012, 03:20 AM
Golly, thanks for the input, Dr. Sears.

Somehow though, I doubt that a sleeping infant cares whether I am typing on the computer, listening to Goljan, reading a book, or eating a ham sandwich. She's comfy, and secure, and I think you know exactly what you can do with your parenting advice from the cheap seats. There's really no need to behave boorishly.

It's more-than-mildly amusing/confusing that you think "attend a US school if you can" and "look at the Big 4 first in the Carib" constitutes "bad advice" and "not knowing what one is really talking about." Best of luck with whatever advice you're choosing to follow, then.


Ok devildoc, I have some ADVICE for you though too. In order to be a better parent dont be on VMD while watching your kid. Your daughter is more important than the time you spend on here giving bad advice/ not knowing what your really talking about. Wait wait wait wheres the smiliy face??!?!?!?......... :D

beachfan112
02-25-2012, 01:53 PM
HOLY COW!
I am off this forum now and right now. I seriously thought these posters were current or past students. Pretty scary and personally threatening PMs.
You guys are living in a pretty DARK world out there man. Feel sorry for you and the forum readers.
Never will I visit this forum again!

I've posted on here for a while, and never received any type of threatening or scary PMs. Perhaps you're only getting such messages because its so clear to everyone else that you are not a student, but instead an employee of SMU.

brusmani
03-01-2012, 03:39 PM
Yes sure,but you should consider other caribbean schools as well like Saba or Ross since they are approved in all the 50 states and don`t listen to everyone here,I know SMU(or any caribbean school for that matter)is not your best bet but it will get you to where you want to get,most ex caribbean medical students are either doing residency or are practcing somewhere.At the end of the day it all depends on the effort you put in,the books are pretty much the same wherever you go and you will have to take the USMLEs just like any other medical student....

beachfan112
03-08-2012, 09:40 PM
Yes sure,but you should consider other caribbean schools as well like Saba or Ross since they are approved in all the 50 states and don`t listen to everyone here,I know SMU(or any caribbean school for that matter)is not your best bet but it will get you to where you want to get,most ex caribbean medical students are either doing residency or are practcing somewhere.At the end of the day it all depends on the effort you put in,the books are pretty much the same wherever you go and you will have to take the USMLEs just like any other medical student....

Just wanted to qualify this statement a bit. While a lot of Carib med students eventually do make it to residency, they do so years and years after completing basic science. The delay in starting residency is due to three things: 1) requiring excessive time to study for the boards 2) the carib school does not provide back to back rotations so clinical sciences get delayed or 3)the student's board score is too low, and they cannot secure a residency position becuase they have the double strike of low score and coming from a carib school.

Also, it no longer just depends on the effort you put in. It depends on your grades, your board score, the amount of preparation the rotations your school provides you, and sometimes, just the connections your school has.

If you must go to a Carib school, go to one with money and connections. Do not go to SMU. There's a reason the school has zero loyalty from its alumni. If you want more details on just how bad SMU is, read the rest of this forum!

forced
04-20-2012, 11:56 PM
Post not relevant.So deleted it.

kishkash186
04-21-2012, 07:09 AM
Getting information about how to spend the next four years of your life from value md is a little silly.

You can get in touch with alumni from the school. Just ask the alumni coordinator to give you a couple of emails.

dailybasis28
04-25-2012, 11:26 AM
Getting information about how to spend the next four years of your life from value md is a little silly.

You can get in touch with alumni from the school. Just ask the alumni coordinator to give you a couple of emails.

Seriously just shut your mouth. I sense a little insecurity in that statement you made there kishykashy. Perhaps that person did take other methods to find out more about the school, just dont worry about them. You talk too much garbage on here.

MedStudent_BK
04-25-2012, 02:03 PM
I am currently a student at SMU, and the people who say negative things about my school are disgruntled students who should have studied harder themselves. Only angry students go on these forums to bash. I decided to check this forum out after I heard from some people that there are a lot of negative things being said about SMU. Shame on these people who blame others for their own failures. Not real medical students, not real doctors, not SMU graduates. There are many smart and hard working students here at SMU who are doing very well in their class exams, NBME shelf exams and will do well on the USMLE. SMU gives people the opportunity to show what they can do. Those who cant step up the certain standards should not be in this or any medical school. Be angry at yourself, not the school, and dont take away other people's opportunities to go to SMU because you were unable to achieve your goal. Plenty of people go to SMU and get good residencies in every specialty. Do you think those people who succeeded took the time to go on these forums and complain about things they thought were unfair? You are a loser if all you can do is go on ValueMD and talk about the school you attend is terrible. Dont drag others down with you.

forced
04-25-2012, 05:39 PM
Post not relevant anymore. So deleted it.

kishkash186
04-25-2012, 06:39 PM
So basically you just cut and paste your replies to all the threads, well done.

forced
04-25-2012, 06:43 PM
Thank you for the encouragement !

kishkash186
04-25-2012, 07:36 PM
If you check the timing of my posts you'll actually find that they get posted sometimes when the dean is in the middle of teaching.

This conspiracy theory you keep mentioning just makes these posts look stupid.

I win

forced
04-25-2012, 08:20 PM
Even though I don't understand your argument.
OK. you win. Congrats!

kishkash186
04-25-2012, 08:55 PM
Glad you've seen sense







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