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View Full Version : WELCOME to CMU! SEPTEMBER 2011 CLASSES



heartbeat
08-06-2011, 03:12 PM
:pI am happy to welcome all of our new students and returning students to CMU for our fall semester which starts in just a few short weeks! Those of you that are new to the school, you will love the school, love the island and love the staff. As the SGA President I am very happy to assist you with your needs to insure you have good experiences here! It's also important that you know that you can trust what you are told here. In just a few short years from now we want you will be proud to say that CMU is your Alma Mater just as our graduates will this fall. We can only earn that honor by building your trust. Please check the website for all updates which will help you prepare. We work to insure that all goals are met through the efforts and teamwork of everyone. It's much easier to make it down this path with support rather than alone. So we always welcome suggestions and questions, something not usually welcomed at other schools. CMU is unlike any other school. I know that you hear this claim from every school. But as a student that has first hand experience in seeing schools fail on this claim and fail to deliver on promises, I can tell you that you that I have only seen trust and fulfilled promises at CMU. I have found real trust in the staff, students and administration and greatly admire and appreciate this refreshing quality. I have personally witnessed the respect that the students have for their teachers and administration and I have seen the same respect returned to the students. If there is a need at CMU, it is not met with false promises, it is met with action. This is a profession which demands the highest of ethics, likewise, one's school should emulate these same standards. If it does not, then you need to re-evaluate. CMU has heard the needs of its students: namely financing and housing. A problem for us all here in the Caribbean. CMU has real loans available for your medical education. These loans not only can cover the cost of your medical tuition but your living expenses as well. The nicest part, they are fair. They are not "loan shark" loans. The website can give you all the details on how to qualify and how to apply. There is no need to be taking online courses that you don't need for a degree you won't ever use, racking up more loans, and taking time from your medical school studies while trying to pay for your medical school cost. CMU also has extremely reasonable dorms for only $300 per person double or $550 per person single- and this is complete- Includes electricity, water, internet, and trash! The school also has a bus which will bring you to and from the campus! You can't ask for anymore than that! We have great clinical rotations, a number of which our students are currently in. CMU will also help you to set up your own rotations. Our classes are small which allow for great discussions and correlations. We will also be working within the community to promote health awareness with our own mobile clinic and to also give students the opportunity to participate in clinical medicine. The campus is inside the beautiful modern World Trade Center in Curacao. Beautiful classrooms, meeting halls, snack area for students, fully air conditioned, fully wireless - everything you could need: Clean, neat, and mosquito free! There are also gift shops, a cafeteria, post office, bank, ATM, and fitness center on site and even a beach and beach walk across the street! If all of the living parts of your life are settled and affordable it allows you to focus totally on your studies. Which is why you are here! We will also have some fun events as well. It it important to get some breaks from your studies and build lasting friendships. We have a great welcome party planned at one of the nicest beaches in Curacao to celebrate! We will update you on this shortly! We are all excited to see you soon! Please let us know if you have any questions!:p

med209
08-07-2011, 08:17 AM
Great input SGA. I enjoyed the island 2. All the best to the new students.

heartbeat
08-07-2011, 11:00 AM
Thanks Med209! I will give all the new students your message! It looks like you are enjoying your rotations in Chicago. How exciting. Are you doing all of them in Chicago or different places? How much longer do you have to go? I can't wait, just 2 semesters to go!

2BNMD
08-07-2011, 01:53 PM
Heartbeat, I cannot find any info on passing rate for Step I for your school. There is no list on the school's web site of residency matches. Can you give me a link to that information? Thanks for your help.

med209
08-07-2011, 02:42 PM
Hi Heartbeat. Im finishing my Family Practice. Its going fine, im abt to finish in 3 weeks. I did all of my clerkship in Chicago bc they have most of them here. Good luck with your basic science.

med209
08-07-2011, 03:34 PM
Im not sure abt the statistics, however some schools post like 90% which is a pure lie bc the highest one I think is about 70-80 in the caribbean.

med209
08-07-2011, 04:02 PM
the real statistics can by only provided by the ECFMG

heartbeat
08-07-2011, 04:07 PM
Hi 2BNMD Here is the closest published statistics that I can give you. Students are very private about their USMLE scores which is why its really hard to get an accurate figure from anyone. However the American Medical College of Academic Medicine publishes the results of the USMLE scores by island. That is about as accurate as you will get. Med209 is very correct in that anyone telling you they have a 90% pass rate is false. Maybe on their 2nd or 3rd attempts but NOT the first attempt. So the data from Academic Medicine is only first time attempts. If you would like to see the chart published by Academic Medicine which shows the Caribbean pass rates to to this link (St Georges site) Grenada #1 Rank in USMLE Step One and Step Two/CK in Caribbean - St. George’s University - Caribbean Medical & Veterinary School (http://www.sgu.edu/news-events/news-archives08-Grenada1USMLE.html) Go to the bottom of the page and you will see 2 links. These will give you the stats. The first one is for the First Time Pass Rates for the USMLE Step 1 and the second is the First Time Pass Rates for the USMLE Step 2. We are .6 under 60%. This is the 5th highest in the Caribbean. The majority of the schools in the Caribe
score from 20 to 40% pass rates. Only the islands of Dominica (69%), Barbados (72%), Jamaica (72%) and Grenada (84%) scored higher. All of the other islands scored 40% or less.
As far as residency, we will have our first graduating class this September so our residency matches will be for next July 1.
Hope this has been helpful!

med209
08-07-2011, 06:29 PM
Grenada is SGU 84% (Congrats but no wonder), Dominica - Ross (69% great), Cayman Island - SMU (so low???) 33%, Aruba is Xavier (only 30%, wow) and Antigua is AUA (also very low) 23%. So the range is 19%-84%. Really weird but only reflects the quality of education. SGU is in fact the true leader.

verokmed
08-07-2011, 06:40 PM
how can you explain such differences?

siheg
08-07-2011, 06:47 PM
Grenada is SGU 84% (Congrats but no wonder), Dominica - Ross (69% great), Cayman Island - SMU (so low???) 33%, Aruba is Xavier (only 30%, wow) and Antigua is AUA (also very low) 23%. So the range is 19%-84%. Really weird but only reflects the quality of education. SGU is in fact the true leader.

Your "wow" comments are cute. You should know however that when this data was collected (2004?) that AUA was only a mere infant of a school. The date retrieved for Antigua was mainly comprised of UHSA.

med209
08-07-2011, 06:55 PM
Thanks Siheg ;) I think it was collected in 2008 but I agree, AUA was still a new school. Im sure you guys are way better by now. All the best.

siheg
08-07-2011, 06:57 PM
Thanks Siheg ;) I think it was collected in 2008 but I agree, AUA was still a new school. Im sure you guys are way better by now. All the best.

Thanks, you too!

Scott1981
08-07-2011, 07:11 PM
one must remember that these numbers are based upon country. there are 5-6 med schools thrown into that equation for netherland antilles. quite frankly, AUC and SABA's usmle pass rates are close to SGUs pass rate. its quite a travesty that the number is under 60%. one can only imagine how horrible some of the other schools in the same cohort are to drag the number so low. ross has the same problem with all saints univ by dragging their numbers down too. same can be said with AUA who had to deal with UHSA. AUA would have never been given cali approval with dismal numbers over the past 7 years.

med209
08-07-2011, 07:17 PM
I agree with you but only partially. They drag them down but not as much cause consider how many students AUC and Saba has compared to the other schools. Few times more I'd say. So I can only estimate about 80% for AUC and Saba and about 50% for the rest. What you think guys?

Scott1981
08-07-2011, 07:42 PM
I agree with you but only partially. They drag them down but not as much cause consider how many students AUC and Saba has compared to the other schools. Few times more I'd say. So I can only estimate about 80% for AUC and Saba and about 50% for the rest. What you think guys?

well, saba is known for small class sizes. auc is also no ross or sgu when it comes to class sizes either.

in any case, its definitely something to consider when reading into that report. however, with the netherland antilles now being disbanded, it should be easier to get true pass rates for each island in the future.

med209
08-07-2011, 08:13 PM
Yeah Scott. In fact I just put the most recent data 2000-2009 http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/215803-2000-2009-usmle-passing-rates.html

It looks like majority of the schools did improve their Step1 rates. In 2009 [exam takers] :
* Grenada (SGU) [816] - 90%
* Dominica (Ross) [901] - 88%
* Netherlands Antilles [667] - 68%
* Antigua [441] - 54%
* Cayman Islands (SMU) [349] - 51%
* Saint Kitts and Nevis [326] - 49%
* Saint Lucia [56]- 37%
* Aruba [57] - 29%

Its weird that in Aruba (Xavier and All Saint) and in Saint Lucia (Spartan and other 4 schools) for the past few years the number of exam takers was only about 50 students per year. Furthermore based on their passing rate, only around 20 students passed the exam in the entire 2009.

DOC.p
08-07-2011, 08:29 PM
Grenada is SGU 84% (Congrats but no wonder), Dominica - Ross (69% great), Cayman Island - SMU (so low???) 33%, Aruba is Xavier (only 30%, wow) and Antigua is AUA (also very low) 23%. So the range is 19%-84%. Really weird but only reflects the quality of education. SGU is in fact the true leader.
AUA is not the only med school in Antigua, an online school called UHSA has been handing out degrees to dentists and chiropractors for years up until maybe a year or two ago

AUA wasn't founded until 2005, step 1 pass rate is over 80%

med209
08-08-2011, 07:38 AM
Yeah Doc but AUA has way more students taking step1 than UHSA

heartbeat
08-16-2011, 09:28 AM
I wanted to WELCOME everyone again. I have already met some of you, we are going to have a great semester! It is coming up really fast! Anytime you have any request, suggestions, or questions, please let us know. If I don't know I will do my best to find out for you. You are going to love the school and love Curacao! Its a great place to live and go to school. We will have an SGA welcome packet for you on orientation day to help you feel really at home! We also have some great events planned for you. We always want to have and promote teamwork on our campus! Wish you happy packing and hope that you are excited to start the beginning of the rest of your life! :p

Lachucha
08-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Hi All,

Just little bit info.... Owner Mr. RL has been running this "school" for over 5 years. Early version of the website had fake signatures of Health minister etc etc... So called campus was one classroom in WTC, may be they have now more rooms but forget about dissecting and labs... It is as good as St. Martinus, be extremely careful choosing this school. Better stay away from Curacao in general.. You can google owner.. PM me and I'll send the name..

med209
08-16-2011, 06:15 PM
Thats funny. I dont know which "school" you represent but one of the CMU owners is the owner of WTC so please don't make fun of yourself. Fake signatures etc etc? How can a school run for 5 years without the Minister's approval??? Better stay away of Curacao? Which island you are on? Let us know. Curacao is one of the most developed islands in the Caribbean. You can google it :decision:

PS: Looks like you cant play nice (Infractions)

heartbeat
08-16-2011, 06:35 PM
I do not know what things were like 4 years ago in 2007, I tend to like to live in the current and look at what I have had personal experience with rather than listen to rumors and gossip. Surely you know these tactics are only used to tear down instead of build up. So I can speak for what it has been for the few years and today. I can also tell you that as a student, I have had nothing but a positive experience. We have beautiful classrooms and an auditorium for our ceremonies in the world trade center, in fact we have more than one floor available to us. A nice student snack and cabana area, fitness center, with post office, atm, bank also on site. We do not use cadavers. In fact if you check most schools have gone way from this due to the carcinogenic affects of the formaldehyde.In fact, we use the same 3D dissection software that OSU medical school uses. They are working to get in a plastinated cadaver in but are not sure it will get here in time for this semester. I also know of NO other school in the Caribbean (other than the FASFA schools) that offer its students the opportunity for FULL LOANS to cover their tuition and housing- do you? Other schools give in house deferrals for only a small portion of the tuition- so the balance and all living expenses are up to you! The interest rates are reasonable and I think every student I have come in contact has gotten a loan approved. I think this says a LOT for the school. Where else can you also have dorms with a school bus provided for only $300 (double) or $550 (single) a month and this is COMPLETE- with internet, tv, electricity, water, trash! I have spent much time with RL from the school as well as his staff, teaches, and students. I can tell you he genuinely cares about this school and is doing some fabulous things for the school and the community. I can also tell you that there is a strong mutual appreciation of the students and teachers toward the administration and the administration for the students. I can tell you, from personal experience, this is not typical! We will have the only mobile clinic on the island this semester so that we can provide community service health clinics to Curacao as well as give students the opportunity to work directly with the patients from MD1 and up. We have excellent clinical sites, 67 to be exact. We have 18 currently in rotations, 7 preparing for Step 1 and our first graduates in about a month. We are IMED/WHO listed. The other nice thing about CMU, its tuition is extremely reasonable- both basic and clinical rotations. Basic is $4900 and clinicals are only $6900. They make it reasonable for you! Another really nice thing that I do not think ANY other school does is that CMU holds the tuition that you start at the same rate for you throughout your medical education. It is never raised, even if they raise it for future classes! I am not sure about you, but I would classify that as someone that cares about their students! As far as Curacao, it is a beautiful island. It is modern and safe especially compared to most other Caribbean islands. I have not met anyone here that does not love it. It has everything you need. I can also personally assure you would be extremely happy with your choice to come to CMU. Having had personal experience with the other school that you mentioned in your post here in Curacao, I would absolutely agree with your warning regarding that school. I can only recommend that you contact any of the students that are at that school and inquire of them what they are experiencing there. I can tell you we have students from there transferring, and for very good reason. I can assure you that there is nothing fake about CMU or anyone with CMU. I encourage you to contact me if you need anymore information. I am the SGA president and am committed to insure that students are happy here and do not have to deal with unnecessary issues- such as MANY of them are dealing with at other schools. Our goal is to insure that students are not surrounded by drama and other distracting factors. They are here to focus on their studies, support each other with their goals verses it be all about "ME, ME ,ME", develop friendships for life, and become the doctor they want to be. I have NO doubt that they can do this at CMU. I am certainly placing my goals and trust in their hands! So for those of you who plan to actually use the ethics and standards that are required as a physician, I would encourage you to NOT participate in the bashing of schools, do NOT listen to rumors- especially ones of 4 years ago! Use the God given brain you have been blessed with and do your own research! Contact the school, you don't need to PM anyone to get the gossip from 4 years ago. In fact, contact any school that you are looking at and comparing, ask questions, expect answers, talk to the students, and then make your own intelligent decision as to what is best for you. They all have different programs, prices, etc. If you find a school won't answer you or is evasive, I would recommend avoiding that school- there is a reason. Thus why students are coming here! So best of luck to you and your decisions! I hope that you check into CMU, I believe you will be pleasantly surprised!

med209
08-16-2011, 07:00 PM
Very good post HB. There are always people who spread gossips. I have a very good experience with Mr. L too cause he helped me so many times with my rotations. I transfered from another Caribbean med school where I had to wait or move from one city to the other for the next rotation. I even had to pay for Step1 certification. Its a common practice in the Caribbean. CMU gave me a chance, I passed Step1 (217) and Im almost finishing my rotations in Chicago.

heartbeat
08-16-2011, 07:27 PM
That is awesome med209! I can't wait to be where you are! Yes, Mr. L is a great person and I have seen him do NOTHING but help people! I think anyone that comes to CMU will be blessed! Congrats on your STEP 1 !!!! I will look forward to meeting you!!

Scott1981
08-16-2011, 08:11 PM
If you find a school won't answer you or is evasive, I would recommend avoiding that school- there is a reason.

i suggest that you view the cmu forum before it was closed pending confirmation of imed listing. all the old threads are still here...... however, please refrain from posting on them since they were from 4 years ago and its just going to clutter the forum with old threads...... if users ignore this request, the old threads will just be locked. do it for informational purposes, back then, cmu may have been a school you would have avoided too.

i will say that if the new cmu grads match and eventually get licensed.... that will be a good start. cmu should be open with all their students and prospective students. they should openly post their match list results like all the other carib schools once their new grads go through this years match.

if everything is done above in an open fashion, then it would then seem that cmu may have gotten its act together....... because when the school was initially formed, it was nothing but evasive with questions about its credentials.

maybe it can eventually take the path of AUA. when that school opened, it too was shady in the beginning. they claimed that their students could do rotations in california. they would also actively recruit california students even though they were not cali approved. it got so bad to the point that a cali med board representative started posting on the thread "suggesting" that aua refrain from making threats of lawsuits against the board as in the future it would be viewed negatively if they ever applied. well, long story short, aua complied, straightened themselves out, and went by the book for establishing a great track record. they did it enough to the point that they now got california approval.

nome
08-16-2011, 08:27 PM
AUA is not the only med school in Antigua, an online school called UHSA has been handing out degrees to dentists and chiropractors for years up until maybe a year or two ago AUA wasn't founded until 2005, step 1 pass rate is over 80% Hi - are we really at 80% first-time pass? I find this # doubtful - I can easily believe something around 60%. It'd be great if your source was something other than AUA itself. I think the first group of students at AUA took Step1 in 2007. I believe in AUA but to say we've got 80% in 4 years when a lot our students in the past have failed out from other schools raises some questions.

med209
08-17-2011, 08:52 AM
Thanks Scott for the objective point of view.

rokshana
08-19-2011, 05:35 PM
Thats funny. I dont know which "school" you represent but one of the CMU owners is the owner of WTC so please don't make fun of yourself. Fake signatures etc etc? How can a school run for 5 years without the Minister's approval??? Better stay away of Curacao? Which island you are on? Let us know. Curacao is one of the most developed islands in the Caribbean. You can google it :decision:

PS: Looks like you cant play nice (Infractions)

uh, you were not here when RL posted those faked documents on the CMU website...i (and many older members of vmd) remember them quite distinctly....

MY question would be is how has this school operated without the ablity for its students to sit for the USMLE until now (given that without IMED listing, which seemingly only came about recently, a school's student are unable to certify for the USMLEs)...are you saying that you actually HAVE students who have taken the USMLEs prior to IMED lisiting?

med209
08-19-2011, 06:14 PM
uh, isn't it easy to post false accusations on the forum being hidden behind a nickname??? It is, huh?
The documents on the website are the same since 2007 so please as a future physician, watch out your statements. The school operated because of its students like me, who always believed that the school has a right to be IMED listed as any other medical schools in the Caribbean. If its tough to figure out, the school had transfer students who already took the USMLE exams

rokshana
08-19-2011, 07:04 PM
uh, isn't it easy to post false accusations on the forum being hidden behind a nickname??? It is, huh?
The documents on the website are the same since 2007 so please as a future physician, watch out your statements. The school operated because of its students like me, who always believed that the school has a right to be IMED listed as any other medical schools in the Caribbean. If its tough to figure out, the school had transfer students who already took the USMLE exams

one, my sn IS my name (while yours certainly IS a nickname isn't it)...i'm not that hard to figure out....and yes, every school has the right to get IMED listing, but CMU did NOT start out on the right foot with the obsfucation and at time out right lies of RL, nevermind the outright plagarism of SGU's website....i remember well the threads from the beginings of CMU and hope that CMU has learned lessons from the past and has their student's best interest in mind even when they are trying to make money...

be an advocate for your school by all means...but don't try to erase history and make it sound like CMU has always been on the up and up...those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it as the saying goes.

and for your info...not a future physican....AM an attending and am very well versed at the trials and tribulations of being a caribbean medical student and graduate.

and transfer students who were sponsored by another school is NOT the same as CMU certifying a student...the steps those students took are not reflective -either as credit for or detriment of CMU's step pass rate...it is the pass rate for the school that certified them to take the exam in the 1st place.

trust me, i never falsely accuse (go ask RL, i'm SURE he remembers me) as RL very well knows...

med209
08-19-2011, 07:36 PM
Its definitely your full name, just like mine. I don't want to drop to your level therefore I'm not gonna waist my time to reply to your "truth". I was in Curacao so I know the history of the school way better than you cause the only source of your information is VMD. I'm happy to be where I am now cause the school always supported me therefore I'm proud of being a CMU student.

I should trust you??? :D It would be the last thing I would ever do in my life.

cmuthruth
08-19-2011, 07:38 PM
Med209 if you are actually a student in rotation from CMU then please offer yyour information on the thread as there are other genuine students on other forums who do the same.
I am a prospective student who wants to know CMUTRUTH and doesnt want to waste time chasing ghost!!! Please understand my concern as most students dont have breathing time during their rotations but you seem to be quite active with your school post.

med209
08-19-2011, 10:15 PM
I do understand ur concerns thats why we try to help guys like u. Like other users of this forum who are also students, can find some time to be quite active in VMD

heartbeat
08-20-2011, 06:47 AM
I just want to jump in for a moment and touch on what I wrote earlier. In the year that I have been on VMD most of the post I see are ones that hurt or tear down others. The entire purpose, or at least I thought, of VMD was to help people make their decisions as to which campus will fit their needs the most. This need will vary as much as the individual people here do. I don't know of any campus that is perfect. But the only way this can be done is to stop dragging up things from years ago that have no bearing on today. I already stated that I wasn't here 4 years ago and cannot and will not comment on anything then. It's like a marriage. If something happens and it goes bad but then the two come back, work hard to repair it in order to move forward and have a great marriage. What good does it do when one of them drags up something that is irrelevant from years past. It has nothing to do with their current situation, it shows nothing of the hard work and progress they have made, and it only serves to tear down- not to mention it doesn't say much for the one who drug it up. It indicates that the persons motives is to not move forward. If we want to go backwards, I imagine that most all the campus's in the Caribbean would have had their issues in the beginning. But they worked to move forward. So as I have also said in my previous post, I am impressed with what I see at CMU. And the students, which I have personally met with, because I always go to the students if I really want to know how a school is- students will tell you ANYTHING. I can tell you these students and the teachers have the utmost respect for this school and the administration. I can tell you that this is NOT the case with one of the of the other schools that recently reopened here in Curacao. Just go talk to their students, they will verify that their situation is a living nightmare from hell. But at CMU, it is obvious that they are achieving their goal. Students are happy and the teachers are happy. I can also tell you that the teachers here are really good and not just good at their teaching- they are good in their hearts. So as all of us being future physicians lets try to start really practicing our standards, ethics and morals now. Stop trying to beat someone's work down to make things good for there students. Would you really do that to your patients one day? You would drag up the far past in order to hurt them - whether you were there or not? I hope not. So I would ask that if everyone of us would start working to do this on VMD- people could actually make some good decisions on what works best for them. CMU offers real loans (no else does down here) - I have one and every student I have spoken to so far has one, reasonable housing, and reasonable tuition. You can read a couple of my post which explains everything they have. So lets support CMU, whether you go there or not. Students are happy there and are going to be able to achieve their dream of becoming an MD. It hurts students to see others try and hurt their own school, especially when they are there and know the postings do not represent their school or their experiences. And yes, there are some of us out here that care enough to take the time from our studies to try and help those that are sincerely looking. Trust me, I have many other things to do. So I would issue a challenge to anyone out there, on any forum: stay to what is current, leave the past behind, build up verses tear down, and help where you can. We will all be better doctors and people for this. Until I have first hand experience, not rumors and gossip, which would show me that CMU is not a good, solid, honest school doing their best to make me succeed, I will continue to be happy to be here and recommend it.

rokshana
08-20-2011, 11:51 AM
I just want to jump in for a moment and touch on what I wrote earlier. In the year that I have been on VMD most of the post I see are ones that hurt or tear down others. The entire purpose, or at least I thought, of VMD was to help people make their decisions as to which campus will fit their needs the most. This need will vary as much as the individual people here do. I don't know of any campus that is perfect. But the only way this can be done is to stop dragging up things from years ago that have no bearing on today. I already stated that I wasn't here 4 years ago and cannot and will not comment on anything then. It's like a marriage. If something happens and it goes bad but then the two come back, work hard to repair it in order to move forward and have a great marriage. What good does it do when one of them drags up something that is irrelevant from years past. It has nothing to do with their current situation, it shows nothing of the hard work and progress they have made, and it only serves to tear down- not to mention it doesn't say much for the one who drug it up. It indicates that the persons motives is to not move forward. If we want to go backwards, I imagine that most all the campus's in the Caribbean would have had their issues in the beginning. But they worked to move forward. So as I have also said in my previous post, I am impressed with what I see at CMU. And the students, which I have personally met with, because I always go to the students if I really want to know how a school is- students will tell you ANYTHING. I can tell you these students and the teachers have the utmost respect for this school and the administration. I can tell you that this is NOT the case with one of the of the other schools that recently reopened here in Curacao. Just go talk to their students, they will verify that their situation is a living nightmare from hell. But at CMU, it is obvious that they are achieving their goal. Students are happy and the teachers are happy. I can also tell you that the teachers here are really good and not just good at their teaching- they are good in their hearts. So as all of us being future physicians lets try to start really practicing our standards, ethics and morals now. Stop trying to beat someone's work down to make things good for there students. Would you really do that to your patients one day? You would drag up the far past in order to hurt them - whether you were there or not? I hope not. So I would ask that if everyone of us would start working to do this on VMD- people could actually make some good decisions on what works best for them. CMU offers real loans (no else does down here) - I have one and every student I have spoken to so far has one, reasonable housing, and reasonable tuition. You can read a couple of my post which explains everything they have. So lets support CMU, whether you go there or not. Students are happy there and are going to be able to achieve their dream of becoming an MD. It hurts students to see others try and hurt their own school, especially when they are there and know the postings do not represent their school or their experiences. And yes, there are some of us out here that care enough to take the time from our studies to try and help those that are sincerely looking. Trust me, I have many other things to do. So I would issue a challenge to anyone out there, on any forum: stay to what is current, leave the past behind, build up verses tear down, and help where you can. We will all be better doctors and people for this. Until I have first hand experience, not rumors and gossip, which would show me that CMU is not a good, solid, honest school doing their best to make me succeed, I will continue to be happy to be here and recommend it.

ok, i'll stay current...explain t me how you can say students and teachers are happy when one of your students killed another student while she was definding a teacher? And what did the school do to avoid such a situation and what is it now doing to make sure something like this doesn't happen again? And don't think those questions are relavant? the same questions were asked of Va Tech after the shootings there...

hopefully CMU has learned lessons from their past mistakes and truly is striving to be a good school...but propsectives SHOULD be aware of that past so they truly can make a fully informed decision....

vmd is about hearing info and prospectives that don't tout the party line that is found on the respective school's websites...sometimes that does involve gossip, rumor, and students venting....its up to the searching student to separate the wheat from the chaff..

as scott stated, schools can come from a shady beginning and get past it...AUA did....but those AUA alumni will also acknowledge their shady beginnings and say Hey! look at us now....its an example CMU should try to emulate.

rokshana
08-20-2011, 11:54 AM
Its definitely your full name, just like mine. I don't want to drop to your level therefore I'm not gonna waist my time to reply to your "truth". I was in Curacao so I know the history of the school way better than you cause the only source of your information is VMD. I'm happy to be where I am now cause the school always supported me therefore I'm proud of being a CMU student.

I should trust you??? :D It would be the last thing I would ever do in my life.

so you were at CMU FOUR years ago and you are STILL a student? Even if you were a 1st yr, shouldn't you have graduated ths year and have started a residency?

and did you know dj$iva????

med209
08-20-2011, 12:32 PM
Its very interesting conclusions u draw from my post? Where did I say that I was at CMU 4 years ago? I transfered to the MD3 after a year of trying to find a loan to finance my education. Im still missing 8 weeks of rotations so hopefully Ill graduate by the end of this year.
I dont know any DJ'$ :)

Scott1981
08-20-2011, 01:10 PM
so you were at CMU FOUR years ago and you are STILL a student? Even if you were a 1st yr, shouldn't you have graduated ths year and have started a residency?

and did you know dj$iva????

i tried look look him up. his videos were completely off the wall with the cmu medical mafia :lol:. im pretty sure he left cmu as i cant find any of his videos. you tube only has the videos from sgu before he transferred to cmu.

this is all that is left.
dj $iva / CMU Medical Mafia presents...Willemstad Medical! video on CastTV Video Search (http://www.casttv.com/video/hicye2/dj-iva-cmu-medical-mafia-presents-willemstad-medical-video)

rokshana
08-20-2011, 01:25 PM
i tried look look him up. his videos were completely off the wall with the cmu medical mafia :lol:. im pretty sure he left cmu as i cant find any of his videos. you tube only has the videos from sgu before he transferred to cmu.

this is all that is left.
dj $iva / CMU Medical Mafia presents...Willemstad Medical! video on CastTV Video Search (http://www.casttv.com/video/hicye2/dj-iva-cmu-medical-mafia-presents-willemstad-medical-video)

sorry scott that video link isn't working....

but eveidently THIS is where he is now...the date on the video is 2010!

dj $iva melbourne / los angeles - Willemstad (Curacao) Netherlands Antilles! video on CastTV Video Search (http://www.casttv.com/video/abasbm1/dj-iva-melbourne-los-angeles-willemstad-curacao-netherlands-antilles-video)

you have to watch the 1st video and then click on the 1st video in the panel that appears...can't seem to post a separate link for it

rokshana
08-20-2011, 01:33 PM
Its very interesting conclusions u draw from my post? Where did I say that I was at CMU 4 years ago? I transfered to the MD3 after a year of trying to find a loan to finance my education. Im still missing 8 weeks of rotations so hopefully Ill graduate by the end of this year.
I dont know any DJ'$ :)

in post #32 you said, in response to postings on the CMU 2007 website that you were in curacao and know the truth....i did take that to mean that you were at CMU at the time of the plageristic CMU website and posting of false gov't documents...sorry for the misinterpretation, but then that of course means that you were not there at the time and your knowledge of those events aren't any different than mine (though of course I had contacted the ministry office that those documents had come from and they stated that the documents on the CMU website (at the time) were not from their office).

Scott1981
08-20-2011, 01:40 PM
sorry scott that video link isn't working....

but eveidently THIS is where he is now...the date on the video is 2010!

dj $iva melbourne / los angeles - Willemstad (Curacao) Netherlands Antilles! video on CastTV Video Search (http://www.casttv.com/video/abasbm1/dj-iva-melbourne-los-angeles-willemstad-curacao-netherlands-antilles-video)

you have to watch the 1st video and then click on the 1st video in the panel that appears...can't seem to post a separate link for it

i know, he took all those outlandish cmu mafia videos down.

heartbeat
08-20-2011, 02:29 PM
rokshana: I think anyone reading the post knew beyond a doubt that I was referring to the fact that that the students and teachers are happy with the educational environment and how the school is supporting them. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with a horrible tragedy! What happened had nothing to do with the school. A student suddenly cracked! You refer to Virginia Tech- a school which had received numerous warnings over and over for months! The history of the shooter was filled with countless warnings from professional psychologist. That was not the case here. This came out of the blue. Instead of trying to point fingers and tear down - take the time to think about the people that have been involved is this horrible, horrible tragedy. Families and lives were destroyed forever. Do you really think the school: students, teachers, administration, and staff are not devastated beyond imagination? Why would you to bring up a tragedy and use it as a current issue? VMD is all about helping to get information to people which will help them. It is NOT for purposes of gossip and hurt or comments that only hurt good people who have suffered beyond what anyone can imagine! In addition, most anyone can clearly see that CMU is ALREADY WELL into emulating what an excellent school is. So I will state clearly again, the students and teachers here are VERY happy with CMU. The administration has their trust and support, you won't see this in most schools down here. This tragedy did not change that and in fact brought everyone even closer! Instead of making comments which hurt and cause contention, we should all be keeping these people in our prayers. Let's try and emulate the type of doctors we should all be trying to become, those with compassion and empathy.

med209
08-20-2011, 03:07 PM
Unfortunately there are people who don't respect someone else's pain. Very sad. I wish she never experiences anything like that.

angelprincess818
08-20-2011, 04:24 PM
in post #32 you said, in response to postings on the CMU 2007 website that you were in curacao and know the truth....i did take that to mean that you were at CMU at the time of the plageristic CMU website and posting of false gov't documents...sorry for the misinterpretation, but then that of course means that you were not there at the time and your knowledge of those events aren't any different than mine (though of course I had contacted the ministry office that those documents had come from and they stated that the documents on the CMU website (at the time) were not from their office).

Are you a medical doctor, a prospective student of CMU a student of CMU or a former student of CMU, if you are none of the above then please what are you doing here. I find it rather disturbing that students decide to wallow away their time bashing their fellow Caribbean students about, you guys are supposed to stick together and not destroy each other. I'm a 2nd year Medical student in Europe and i'm looking for medical schools to transfer to, i know every school would always have a competitor(s) that they would like to outshine, but over here we outshine our competitors by actions and not words, leave another school's forum alone and stick to the one that you belong to. Please act like adults and not teenagers. Thank you

Scott1981
08-20-2011, 06:01 PM
it was bound to happen. time to remind users about the terms of service. flaming and insults are strictly prohibited. obviously, i see this thread has the potential to degenerate. if it does, infractions will be handed out without courtesy pm's from here on out. for those of you that received a courtesy pm already, i suggest you edit your post.

med209
08-20-2011, 06:20 PM
Are you a medical doctor, a prospective student of CMU a student of CMU or a former student of CMU, if you are none of the above then please what are you doing here.

She is none of them but trying to "encourage" prospective students like you as if she knew more about the school then us, current students.

medic300107
08-21-2011, 08:21 AM
If you read Rokshana's signature it shows she just took her IM Boards which means she has finished residency. Just as an FYI. That being said let's keep it clean.

rokshana
08-21-2011, 11:07 AM
Are you a medical doctor, a prospective student of CMU a student of CMU or a former student of CMU, if you are none of the above then please what are you doing here. I find it rather disturbing that students decide to wallow away their time bashing their fellow Caribbean students about, you guys are supposed to stick together and not destroy each other. I'm a 2nd year Medical student in Europe and i'm looking for medical schools to transfer to, i know every school would always have a competitor(s) that they would like to outshine, but over here we outshine our competitors by actions and not words, leave another school's forum alone and stick to the one that you belong to. Please act like adults and not teenagers. Thank you

i am an sgu grad....c/o 2008 (so its easy for you to look up), fininshed IM residency (as my sig shows taking the ABIM on wed, which if you are new to medicine, is the Internal Medicine Board Exam) and am an attending.

and no, there is no thin blue line per se...vmd serves a number of purposes...prospectives come here to find out information about different schools and to see which ones are worth going to....this is an expensive endeavor...financially and emotionally....you move away form family and friends and any other support system you may have to undergo and emotionally and physically grueling process that is becoming more and more of a crap shoot to achieve a residency....of which without all your efforts are worthless. Each and every post here is not meant to be a rah rah sis boom ba for each and every school on here...while we may all be viewed as caribbean grads, there are good caribbean schools and bad ones....prospectives should be able to see which schools are ones the better ones and which ones are the ones to stay away from...its only teenagers that think everyone needs to conform....adults have differing opinions and don't to suppress someone from voicing it...even if they don't agree with it.

and as for transferring from one foreign school to another is at best a lateral move....and raises a red flag come residency interview time...why are you looking to transfer? if you are in a domiciled European med school, then that is better than a caribbean med school. If your present school doesn't have 50 state approval then transferring to a caribbean med school with 50 state approval (which CMU is not one of them) will NOT get you 50 state approval as their grad....cali requires ALL coursework to be done at a 50 state school...so therefore you would have to start over to get 50 state approval. If its to get USCE...well you shoulda thought about that before you went to a school that didn't have it....and try to arrange 4th yr electives in the US to get that USCE.

and you must be new to VMD...no forum "belongs" to a single group....want to be on a forum with only CMU students...go to the school sponsored one on their website...these are public fora and anyone and everyone is allowed to post (again THAT is what a teenager does...bullies people to stay out of my space).

so the relevant questions that should be asked of this school is

1. how many students are there in each class?
2. how are the terms organized? 2 semesters or 3 a yr...any breaks?
3. what is the USMLE step 1 and step 2 pass rates?
4. what is the attrition rate for the school (ie how many people who started term one finish basic sciences and take step I...how many people graduate)?
5. where are the clinicals? and are in ACGME residency programs or in doctor's offices?
6. with 2007 the 1st year, there was a graduating class in 2011...how many graduated?
7. of those that graduated, how many are in residency? how many participated in the match? how many pre matched.
8 is their match list posted on their website.

if med209 can answer these questions then its a good start....if he evades these questions like my other one...well then he is just a cheerleader who will say only good about his school with no acknowledgement that, like every caribbean school, his school has pros annd cons...

rokshana
08-21-2011, 11:16 AM
She is none of them but trying to "encourage" prospective students like you as if she knew more about the school then us, current students.

no, frankly, my encouragement for prospectives is to apply to and attend the best school that they are capable of getting into.

older, established caribbean schools with a track record of USMLE pass rates, ACGME clinicals, graduates, residents, and attendings with full unrestricted licenses in 50 states are ones best bet for achieving the ability to practice medicine in the US....the new unproven school should be the last resort of someone incapable of getting into a better one. sorry but CMU doesn't fit the bill...and yes, my advice would be not to take a chance on it...prospectives can take it or leave it.

if a student can't get into sgu, auc, ross, saba, or (now) aua- 50 state schools, then they should try for some of the more established non 50 state schools...and if a new school is the option...UHMS is the best of the lot that came to being in 2007...they have had grads, participated in the NRMP match and had success in the match...

heartbeat
08-21-2011, 11:36 AM
So, just to clarify an IM status for myself: It is a person that has finished residency and is totally done with medical school (basic sciences, rotations, graduation and residency) meaning they are out and ready to practice on their own? If this is correct, then hopefully I am correct in making the assumption that if someone has finished with their residency they would probably have no need to be looking for nor evaluating any medical school they would be considering attending, commenting on schools they did not attend, and would be in full practice of the oath we all took that requires us to uphold the standards and ethics of a physician? Any finished resident could be of great benefit to their own Alma Mater forum by posting positive things which would help encourage prospective students to consider their school. We can all choose to build up or tear down and each of us chooses which way we will go each day. There is a great song that is called "Let there be peace on earth" and the greatest line of all: "and let it begin with me". Can we all please try to do this? We are in one of the greatest professions in the world and we have the ability to help others and to make things better for all. Isn't that why we chose this path?

rokshana
08-21-2011, 11:51 AM
So, just to clarify an IM status for myself: It is a person that has finished residency and is totally done with medical school (basic sciences, rotations, graduation and residency) meaning they are out and ready to practice on their own? If this is correct, then hopefully I am correct in making the assumption that if someone has finished with their residency they would probably have no need to be looking for nor evaluating any medical school they would be considering attending, commenting on schools they did not attend, and would be in full practice of the oath we all took that requires us to uphold the standards and ethics of a physician? Any finished resident could be of great benefit to their own Alma Mater forum by posting positive things which would help encourage prospective students to consider their school. We can all choose to build up or tear down and each of us chooses which way we will go each day. There is a great song that is called "Let there be peace on earth" and the greatest line of all: "and let it begin with me". Can we all please try to do this? We are in one of the greatest professions in the world and we have the ability to help others and to make things better for all. Isn't that why we chose this path?

you forgot one other thing...educating those that come after us in the art of medicine (it too is part of the oath) and part of THAT is making sure that those following us are getting the best chance to achieve this goal....and that includes advising them about which school give them the best chance to achieve their dream.

you too have failed to notice the questions i asked that would be important for a prospective....I can answer those questions for MY school...how about you, hmmm?

and in case you did not read them in my previousl post, here they are again....

so the relevant questions that should be asked of this school is

1. how many students are there in each class?
2. how are the terms organized? 2 semesters or 3 a yr...any breaks?
3. what is the USMLE step 1 and step 2 pass rates?
4. what is the attrition rate for the school (ie how many people who started term one finish basic sciences and take step I...how many people graduate)?
5. where are the clinicals? and are in ACGME residency programs or in doctor's offices?
6. with 2007 the 1st year, there was a graduating class in 2011...how many graduated?
7. of those that graduated, how many are in residency? how many participated in the match? how many pre matched.
8 is their match list posted on their website.

heartbeat
08-21-2011, 12:07 PM
rokshana, I am not md209, but I am happy to help where I can. A lot of the questions I have actually already answered in several of my post. For those I do not know, maybe med209 does know and if not I will do my best to get the information for you. That is definately relevant information in which I was referring to. Certainly important. And all questions I had when I checked into the school. A lot of them are answered on the CMU website. The Chicago office also is available at all times for questions as well. They are happy to help.
1) CMU received the IMED last month so the numbers in the classes will understandably go up for this September session. We actually will not know an exact total for about 2 weeks. I do my best to remember to follow up at that time. 2) It is a 3 semester school with 3 weeks break between each semester. 3) There are 18 students in rotations now, 7 preparing for the Step 1 exam. Some of these students were transfers into the rotation program. As you know yourself, people are very private about their USMLE scores so that information is not always easy to get. But with 18 in rotations, they certainly all had to pass. I will also do my best to find out. I believe md209 already noted on the forum he was a 212. 4) I will see what I can find out, but from what I have seen so far in my discussions with the students of all the basic classes, it was very little and in fact they did not know of anyone in the 2 years they had been here that had dropped out. Let me see what I can find out. 5) CMU has 67 clinical rotation sites and in these 67 sites, there are 300 spots open. Most are ACGME, but again I will get more information. 6,7,8) CMU has its first graduating class in about one month. There are 2 students in its first class. Obviously they will be applying for the match for July 2012 so I can't answer the rest until they do match.
I hope that is some help and hopefully is a clear testimony to anyone looking at the program that it is a good, viable, solid program. In fact the school is so supportive of insuring that their students are provided the best opportunity to succeed it helps in many ways. You are fortunate at SGU that they have FASFA, enabling many to achieve their dream because their educational finances are met. But as you know, most other Caribe schools have nothing to help. CMU has gone the extra mile here. They back their student loans themselves. These are real loans which help pay for tuition AND living expenses. They have extremely reasonable tuition and student dorms. They provide complete transportation to all students to and from school. When you enter the school, your tuition stays the same throughout your entire education with them. Unlike all other schools- who raise their tuition each semester so you can count on your cost continuing to go up. The campus is in the beautiful modern WTC in Curacao. The island is nice and safe. It has everything you need. I personally KNOW each professor here. As I have said before, they are not only good teachers, but they are good people in their hearts. They go out of their way to insure that the students have what they need to succeed. Its a campus that is not filled with drama and tension. They can actually study their work. The students and teachers are close as well. This is so nice to see. So many schools its "all about me". Its a small school, but personally, I prefer a nice, small, consistent, solid school verses one with dozens in my class. It makes for wonderful, more indepth discussions and we seem to cover much more material. I will take a small class of a dozen people any day. For me, I need that opportunity for discussion and to be able to ask questions. Classes with dozens of people don't have time for any of this, its a race to get thru 150 slides in 50 minutes and questions are discouraged. But EACH person has to decide for themselves how they learn best. If you like small classes, then I can highly recommend CMU. They do care very much for their students and teachers. This is evident and something that clearly stood out when I met these people. And as you know as well, if you want to really find out about a school, just go to the students. They will tell you anything! I was pleasantly surprised when I met CMU's students. The school is financially solid, so it will be here for years to come. Is it growing, absolutely. Is it an SGU yet, no of course not, but SGU didn't start at #1, they earned it. So look around, compare, that is what everyone should be doing. Look at everything because everything does affect you and your entire education. Go with the school that is able to provide you with your needs. Personally, I am very happy with my choice of CMU. And, I am not a cheerleader for the school either. I tell things like they are. Good or bad. Everyone has the right to good, correct information. Without that, they have no way of making good choices. I will do my best to follow up on a few of the things I did not have the answer for today.

angelprincess818
08-21-2011, 12:20 PM
Thanks rokshana for the relevant questions. My school is approved everywhere in the world, usmle exams are conducted but i don't know what the umsle pass rate is cause people don't seem to talk about the usmle here, since its not really important in Europe, medicine here is 6 years so i don't know what USCE is, please can you explain what it means? The reason why i'm leaving is because the system here sucks, i and some other students were told that we can't register for our physiology exam because the department did not have enough examiners for oral exam, so because of this we have to repeat the course and the year, people in previous years have experienced this, and just went on with it but i can't stand it,.... so thats why i'm trying to move (sorry if i shared too much info). I'm not a teenager, i'm 21....its just frustrating and hard to make up my mind on which school to go to with all the commotion going on, i know every school has its pros and cons and i'm sorry if i offended anyone with my comment.

By the way, i'm not really looking forward to practicing in the us, as of right now Europe and Africa are the 2 main places i'm thinking of practicing in, so i'm looking for a school thats IMED and or WHO listed and has a charter, so i'd like to know the schools that fall into such criteria.

med209
08-21-2011, 01:12 PM
I can only answer those related to clinical rotations:
5) I did all my CORE rotations in ACGME hospitals even though you may want to know that not all states require greenbook rotations. There are FMGs which have finished their clerkship in another countries (India, Europe, Africa) where they dont even know what ACGME or USCE is. Each residency program has to be ACGME accredited.
Questions 6, 7 & 8 dont make any sense cause how could you expect a graduating class in 2011, residency placement or match list if the school just got its IMED? We all have to pass Step2 in order to graduate, to apply for a residency and to match. So please thing twice before asking questions that lack logic.
It raises a red flag to me when a person that has finished residency is spending so much time on VMD forum, especially criticizing other schools. Certainly you have the right to do it but we have the right to question your real intentions. I dont mind a reasonable discussion but if someone just brings up negatives, thats suspicions.
You wrote in one of your recent posts about not forgetting the history. When I was doing my IM in Ohio, I met Dr. J, who was one of the first students of SGU. She said at that time they started the school in a hotel room and look where they are now. They didnt have Cali approval within a month of their IMED listing but in 1987 so after 10 years of operation. They didnt have any loans, labs or dorms.
If I had 20k per semester for tuition, I would certainly consider SGU but there are students like me who don't especially now in the global financial crisis. If I had the money I would be driving a brand new BMW that has 12 speakers built in even though I would be fine with only one. I would also get a house with 7 bedrooms and sleep in only one of them. Im planing to get licenses in one state which is not California so im fine with it.
As Heartbeat said: "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me" therefore I wish you all the best in your business as well as personal life.

med209
08-21-2011, 01:15 PM
My school is approved everywhere in the world, usmle exams are conducted but i don't know what the umsle pass rate is cause people don't seem to talk about the usmle here, since its not really important in Europe, medicine here is 6 years so i don't know what USCE is, please can you explain what it means?

USCE - US Clinical Experience

Scott1981
08-21-2011, 02:15 PM
Questions 6, 7 & 8 dont make any sense cause how could you expect a graduating class in 2011, residency placement or match list if the school just got its IMED? We all have to pass Step2 in order to graduate, to apply for a residency and to match. So please thing twice before asking questions that lack logic.


just trying to be objective here, but there were students in the school back in 2007, more than just two (i think heartbeat mentioned that 2 are graduating this fall). im assuming thats why rok is asking about how many graduates, because there were quite a few students that started back in 2007. the reason is that back in 2007, when this forum was a tinder box prior to it being shut down due to lack of imed listing, there were quite a few posts and youtube videos showing a lot more than just two students. what happened to all of them?

angelprincess818
08-23-2011, 10:21 AM
How many students are in the school/each class

heartbeat
08-23-2011, 04:04 PM
Hi angelprincess818: The deadline for applications is a week from now, so applications are still coming in daily, so they won't have exact figures for another 2 weeks. But at this time this is what I know: there are somewhere between 15 and 20 MD1's. MD2's I have not heard. MD3's approx. 10 and MD4's I have not heard. So even if no more applicants were accepted after today I think we are going to have a really nice size September class.

rokshana
08-25-2011, 09:33 AM
I can only answer those related to clinical rotations:
5) I did all my CORE rotations in ACGME hospitals even though you may want to know that not all states require greenbook rotations. There are FMGs which have finished their clerkship in another countries (India, Europe, Africa) where they dont even know what ACGME or USCE is. Each residency program has to be ACGME accredited.

for domiciled medical schools in foreign countries, their accrediation councils are considered equivilent to the ACGMME in the US, so students do complete their education within their country are effectively doing ACGME -equivilent education (ie you only need L6s for the cali PTAL if they are US rotations)...but they definitely need to know what USCE is since they are a LOT less competitive for residency spots if they haven't had some exposure to the US medical system.


Questions 6, 7 & 8 dont make any sense cause how could you expect a graduating class in 2011, residency placement or match list if the school just got its IMED? We all have to pass Step2 in order to graduate, to apply for a residency and to match. So please thing twice before asking questions that lack logic.

as scott pointed out, there were enrolled students at CMU in the fall of 2007...something like 30 or so...if they were on track they should have graduated this year...what happened to them? And your question is my point exactly..


It raises a red flag to me when a person that has finished residency is spending so much time on VMD forum, especially criticizing other schools. Certainly you have the right to do it but we have the right to question your real intentions. I dont mind a reasonable discussion but if someone just brings up negatives, thats suspicions.

maybe if i just popped up in the last few weeks and was completely negative but i have been a member of vmd since i was a 1st yr medical student and my progress through basics, clinicals,, the interview season, and residency has been pretty well documented...there are times i post alot and periods of time where i dont post at all...and my radar definitely goes up when a newbie comes on board and all they can say about a school is positive...yeah obviously new students are enthusiastic, but they need to be realistic and willing to ask hard questions too.


You wrote in one of your recent posts about not forgetting the history. When I was doing my IM in Ohio, I met Dr. J, who was one of the first students of SGU. She said at that time they started the school in a hotel room and look where they are now. They didnt have Cali approval within a month of their IMED listing but in 1987 so after 10 years of operation. They didnt have any loans, labs or dorms.

there is a difference between a history some 30 years ago and 4 years ago...and maybe sgu didn't have all those things within 10 yrs of operations, but it also didn't take 4 yrs to get IMED lisiting either...there have probably been 3 or 4 new schools that have opened after CMU and they got their IMED before CMU...


If I had 20k per semester for tuition, I would certainly consider SGU but there are students like me who don't especially now in the global financial crisis. If I had the money I would be driving a brand new BMW that has 12 speakers built in even though I would be fine with only one. I would also get a house with 7 bedrooms and sleep in only one of them. Im planing to get licenses in one state which is not California so im fine with it.

well i can understand money being an issue, but 3 of the 5 50 state schools have federal loans, so while expensive, the money IS there to pay for the best level of education available and its not about frivously spending money as your example are but investing in what can give you the best shot at being able to practice in the US... you might now be planning on getting your license in a state not under the influence of the cali board (at last count there are something like 12 that follow the Cali list) but that can change and you never know...your chosen state may decide to follow the cali board....what happens then? Don't think this can happen...go ask the SMU people if they feel all that safe about the number of states they can practice in....

i do however appreciate post 49...that does give more objective information that a prospective to evaluate the school.

med209
08-25-2011, 04:47 PM
I agree with the USCE thats why the school provides rotations in the states. Most of them were waiting for the IMED listing and now they should back in clerkship. The IMED listing delay wasn't caused by the school but rather the political structure in the Netherlands Antilles and its dismantlement as a country.
Based on what you say is that most of Carib med schools (except 4) should be closed down because of the lack of Cali approval? Don't you think that every school may eventually apply for Cali? Furthermore where did you get the information that only 12 our of 50 states don't follow California list of approved schools??? Please name the states and a verifiable sources of this information.
In regards to the student loan. Yes you can borrow as much as you want however I wouldn't be comfortable being 300k in debt as a graduate just at the beginning of my career. Wouldn't you? This is exactly how the economy and the real estate market went down in the states, where people borrowed as much as they could without being able to pay it off.

rokshana
08-25-2011, 05:13 PM
I agree with the USCE thats why the school provides rotations in the states. Most of them were waiting for the IMED listing and now they should back in clerkship. The IMED listing delay wasn't caused by the school but rather the political structure in the Netherlands Antilles and its dismantlement as a country.
Based on what you say is that most of Carib med schools (except 4) should be closed down because of the lack of Cali approval? Don't you think that every school may eventually apply for Cali? Furthermore where did you get the information that only 12 our of 50 states don't follow California list of approved schools??? Please name the states and a verifiable sources of this information.
In regards to the student loan. Yes you can borrow as much as you want however I wouldn't be comfortable being 300k in debt as a graduate just at the beginning of my career. Wouldn't you? This is exactly how the economy and the real estate market went down in the states, where people borrowed as much as they could without being able to pay it off.

i meant there are ~ 12 states out there that follow the Cali board...there are extensive threads on the SMU and state licensing fora that talk about the states that follow Cali.

and while there will be a decrease in physicians' salaries in the the next 20 yrs, we, as a group, will make the money to pay that amount of loans off...would you say the same thing if you had the chance to go to a US school (and no i am not comparing going to the top 4 as the same as going to a US school)? the avg med school debt for US students is in the area of 150-200K so the debt is a reality for most of us....

i mean if you use that rationale then Windsor would be the school to go to, yeah? they are afterall the cheapest of all the caribbean school...

no, i dont necessarily advocate closing them down per se, but i also cannot recommend a prospective to pick one of the non 50 state schools as a 1st line consideration for optimizing one's chance to get a residency...afterall better to be in 200,000 in debt and have the ability to have a chance to pay that off because you were able to get a residency than to the be in 100,000 in debt and not have the ability to practice medicine in the US...

my advice is and has always been to get into a US school, even if it takes a few extra yrs to accomplish it. However if that is not possible then going to a caribbean school is a good back up, but even then the prospective needs to try to get into the most competitive school that they are able to get into...at this moment that is AUC,Ross, and SGU...federal loans and 50 state approval.

med209
08-25-2011, 05:53 PM
I agree with you that the first preference should be given to SGU, AUC and ROSS but not everyone can get accepted to those schools or get a 200k loan. Im fine with the school I chose and I'm happy we finely came to the same conclusion :)

Scott1981
08-28-2011, 06:39 AM
I agree with you that the first preference should be given to SGU, AUC and ROSS but not everyone can get accepted to those schools or get a 200k loan. Im fine with the school I chose and I'm happy we finely came to the same conclusion :)

well ill agree with you about the preference of schools about ross, sgu, and auc, but remember that they have federal loans so the financial aid will not be a problem getting.

CMUDean
08-28-2011, 11:15 PM
Choosing a medical school only because of the tuition is foolish. The availability of loans may be essential for many students. In the US and the large Caribbean school with Stafford loans only $18000/year will be federal loans (typically $8,000 subsidized) and the remainder would be private. Medical school is very expensive anywhere so research your options.

finishingfifth
08-29-2011, 03:59 PM
Facts: No one has graduated, a person was murdered, they are an unproven product.

If you want to risk your career with a place like this, go ahead. But dont expect people to think its a good idea. You can cheerlead and give of verbose answers with no substance, but this place is clearly second rate, you know it, so does everyone who had enough sense to go elsewhere. If a school isnt on the cali list, its a foolish decision. Plain and simple.

heartbeat
08-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Since its obvious you haven't taken the time to read any of the previous post, you would see that the first graduating class is in one month. I've always found that residency programs tend to like graduates :) :) :) Right behind these graduates, there are 18 in rotations now, 7 preparing for the step, so I'd say we are just fine. As far as the tragedy that happened with a student, I would have to ask what does that have anything to do with the school and its graduates, rotations, basics, anything? And again, I am sadded to see people that are supposed to be in an ethical profession feel the need to use a tragedy to make some useless point. Everyone here is very happy with their education, the teachers, their loans, their dorms, the campus, the island- sounds like a good win-win to me. So be happy for us. There are 30 other schools that would certainly be happy to have you.

med209
08-29-2011, 06:06 PM
Count me and all of us in rotations as happy students too

doctobe80
08-29-2011, 09:17 PM
so far i am too. I was a little sceptical at first but they are in fact really well organized.

heartbeat
08-29-2011, 10:02 PM
Thanks doctobe80, I am a MD3 student here and have been extremely pleased with the organization in all aspects. I have no complaints at all.

CMUDean
08-30-2011, 07:53 PM
You are correct that about 12 states use the California list- but they generally used the "disapproved" list, which is why St. Matthew's lost their approval in several states after applying for specific California approval- which requires inpectors to visit the school and make sure it is up to California standards- and they were rejected. School that have not applied for California are generally ignored so while they cannot do a residency in California they will not be on the disapproved list. For students who are interested in working in California after residency there are still options: 1) work for federal agencies like Bureau of Indian Affairs, VA or military because you only need a license in any state and you can work in any government hospital. 2) after establishing a reputation after residency you can be hired as faculty by a California medical school and the Dean of the school can request a license for you to practice in all of the affiliated hospitals.
Don't give up on having a successful career because of where you study. Get through your USMLE steps on your first try and I would be glad to assist anyone- regardless of school- to get into residency. I prefer to help those students who are in medicine to help the patients, rather than just getting wealthy. Another tip for you is that in almost every physician salary survey they highest salaries are away from the coasts so you will be able to pay off your loans working in the midwest or Rocky Mountain states and worry about California later.

Scott1981
08-30-2011, 08:16 PM
2) after establishing a reputation after residency you can be hired as faculty by a California medical school and the Dean of the school can request a license for you to practice in all of the affiliated hospitals.


you are misinformed. #2 is not true. i dont know how these rumors get started.

there are also issues with your first statement about the VA and indian affairs. not as simple as the statement appears.

rokshana
08-30-2011, 08:26 PM
You are correct that about 12 states use the California list- but they generally used the "disapproved" list, which is why St. Matthew's lost their approval in several states after applying for specific California approval- which requires inpectors to visit the school and make sure it is up to California standards- and they were rejected. School that have not applied for California are generally ignored so while they cannot do a residency in California they will not be on the disapproved list. For students who are interested in working in California after residency there are still options: 1) work for federal agencies like Bureau of Indian Affairs, VA or military because you only need a license in any state and you can work in any government hospital. 2) after establishing a reputation after residency you can be hired as faculty by a California medical school and the Dean of the school can request a license for you to practice in all of the affiliated hospitals.
Don't give up on having a successful career because of where you study. Get through your USMLE steps on your first try and I would be glad to assist anyone- regardless of school- to get into residency. I prefer to help those students who are in medicine to help the patients, rather than just getting wealthy. Another tip for you is that in almost every physician salary survey they highest salaries are away from the coasts so you will be able to pay off your loans working in the midwest or Rocky Mountain states and worry about California later.

yes there are states that the DISapproval issue is the problem that smu has that makes for more states not available to them, but there are still states that FOLLOW (ie, you are not on the cali list, cannot apply to said state) the Cali list...this is not an issue singular to CMU, this is any school not Cali approved. And its not primarily a desire to practice in Cali but how many states will be following the cali list when one graduates...not to think of this issue is not doing your due diligence...it is one thing to know about the issue and choose to go to a school regardless, but i have seen many a student post on here that "wah! i cannot practice in *insert chosen state that follows the cali list* because they follow california!!!" whose fault is THAT?

its one thing if you are already in med school at a non cali school...you have to make do with what you have available, but for prospectives they need to know that what school can make a difference (and i'm not talking about better residency placements, or name recognition, etc) to your chances to practice in the US...choosing a non cali school may BE the option for some for whatever reason, but the person needs to pick that option KNOWING what that means...

rokshana
08-30-2011, 08:39 PM
Since its obvious you haven't taken the time to read any of the previous post, you would see that the first graduating class is in one month. I've always found that residency programs tend to like graduates :) :) :) Right behind these graduates, there are 18 in rotations now, 7 preparing for the step, so I'd say we are just fine. As far as the tragedy that happened with a student, I would have to ask what does that have anything to do with the school and its graduates, rotations, basics, anything? And again, I am sadded to see people that are supposed to be in an ethical profession feel the need to use a tragedy to make some useless point. Everyone here is very happy with their education, the teachers, their loans, their dorms, the campus, the island- sounds like a good win-win to me. So be happy for us. There are 30 other schools that would certainly be happy to have you.

of course it has everything to do with the school...a student killed another student in the attempt in killing a professor....what has the school done about this? to make sure the other students are safe? are being counseled after such a shocking thing...afterall at such a small school these people were not strangers...and this WILL have an effect on each and everyone of those students whether they were involved in the situation....what is the school doing to make sure something like this never happens again...yeah maybe the student was an anomaly and was just pyscho...but the school still needs to step up and take some responsibility for the incident and its students.

and the proof is in the pudding...i understand that ya'll have not had anyone involved in the match (though given there were students in the fall of 2007...if they finished in a timely manner, then they should have graduated in may of this year and would have started residencies this past july)let's see what happens with those that are going to participate in the 2012 match...

rokshana
08-30-2011, 08:42 PM
Facts: No one has graduated, a person was murdered, they are an unproven product.

If you want to risk your career with a place like this, go ahead. But dont expect people to think its a good idea. You can cheerlead and give of verbose answers with no substance, but this place is clearly second rate, you know it, so does everyone who had enough sense to go elsewhere. If a school isnt on the cali list, its a foolish decision. Plain and simple.

just waiting for RL to chime in, aren't you? :D

you need to change that sig...aren't you pgy 4 now?

leo72
08-31-2011, 11:23 PM
I can't comprehend why people are attacking Rokshana. She graduated from a premier university tertiary care IM program that services regions in 2 states. In addition, she is raising valid concerns. Its ok to be proud of your program, but time will tell regarding its success. A school 's testament is the students it produces, and I wish everyone the success they seek.

med209
09-01-2011, 11:37 PM
I didnt see anyone attacking Rokshana. Im open to any kind of reasonable arguments, however asking a school's directory to "chime in" cannot be considered one of them.

rokshana
09-01-2011, 11:52 PM
I didnt see anyone attacking Rokshana. Im open to any kind of reasonable arguments, however asking a school's directory to "chime in" cannot be considered one of them.

sorry, its an inside joke....RL "chimed in" a LOT back in the day...finishing was one of those (me included) who RL couldn't resist pokin' at...

med209
09-02-2011, 12:13 AM
... but those days are over

rokshana
09-02-2011, 12:27 AM
... but those days are over
i hope so...

med209
09-03-2011, 08:49 AM
time will tell

CMUDean
09-10-2011, 03:09 PM
This is a recent change. Please refer to the official page of the California Medical Board. Welcome to the Medical Board of California - Special Faculty Permit under Section 2168 of the Business and Professions Code (http://www.mbc.ca.gov/special_faculty.html)
Any federal agency requires the physician to be licensed in at least one state and then they can work for that agency in any state.

CMUDean
09-10-2011, 03:10 PM
Please see this reference: Welcome to the Medical Board of California - Special Faculty Permit under Section 2168 of the Business and Professions Code (http://www.mbc.ca.gov/special_faculty.html)

CMUDean
09-10-2011, 03:13 PM
If anyone has questions about the faculty exception for the California license please contact the California Medical Board because I have no information beyond what is given on their own website in my previous post.

medic300107
09-10-2011, 06:49 PM
Just to note, while it is possible to get a license in Cali this way. There are key words here "recognized as academically eminent in his or her field of specialty". So unless you go somewhere else and do lots of research and invent the next big procedure or drug for a field....you are out of luck.

CMUDean
09-11-2011, 07:39 AM
Just to note, while it is possible to get a license in Cali this way. There are key words here "recognized as academically eminent in his or her field of specialty". So unless you go somewhere else and do lots of research and invent the next big procedure or drug for a field....you are out of luck.
I absolutely agree with you! I have a couple of colleagues who have done this but they were researchers. If people are concerned about working in California it is best to go to a US med school- including DO schools- and if they don't get in then the next step would be to apply to a California-approved school. The options I listed are more for people who have already completed school and want options.

Scott1981
09-14-2011, 08:11 AM
I absolutely agree with you! I have a couple of colleagues who have done this but they were researchers. If people are concerned about working in California it is best to go to a US med school- including DO schools- and if they don't get in then the next step would be to apply to a California-approved school. The options I listed are more for people who have already completed school and want options.

were your collegues graduates of schools on the california approved list such as schools in japan, france, UK, etc....... or schools that dont appear on it such as windsor, smu, mua, cmu, etc????

please see my post located here regarding this:

http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/217171-high-school-student-going-directly-medical-school-skipping-undergrad-help-2.html#post1409254

in any case, i contacted the california licensing official about this. i got an automated email response saying the the representative is out of the office until sept 20th. i will keep you updated.

CMUDean
09-20-2011, 06:55 AM
California- approved schools would not have to follow this restrictive licensing pathway. My colleagues were from unlisted schools in Brazil and the Caribbean. A specifically disapproved school would likely not be elligible- St. Matthew's is on the disapproved list now- but I cannot be sure. It is a new rule and may adapt as time goes by. These people were very much into research and clinical education and had many publications and awards before they were offered faculty positions at top universities in California.

Scott1981
09-20-2011, 07:26 AM
California- approved schools would not have to follow this restrictive licensing pathway. My colleagues were from unlisted schools in Brazil and the Caribbean. A specifically disapproved school would likely not be elligible- St. Matthew's is on the disapproved list now- but I cannot be sure. It is a new rule and may adapt as time goes by. These people were very much into research and clinical education and had many publications and awards before they were offered faculty positions at top universities in California.

which schools? i think im going to wait on official word from the california medical board. ive already sent the email, ill keep all updated.

cmuzilla
10-09-2011, 12:16 AM
California- approved schools would not have to follow this restrictive licensing pathway. My colleagues were from unlisted schools in Brazil and the Caribbean. A specifically disapproved school would likely not be elligible- St. Matthew's is on the disapproved list now- but I cannot be sure. It is a new rule and may adapt as time goes by. These people were very much into research and clinical education and had many publications and awards before they were offered faculty positions at top universities in California.

"brazferret", What is your affiliation with CMU?

Scott1981
10-09-2011, 07:04 AM
California- approved schools would not have to follow this restrictive licensing pathway. My colleagues were from unlisted schools in Brazil and the Caribbean. A specifically disapproved school would likely not be elligible- St. Matthew's is on the disapproved list now- but I cannot be sure. It is a new rule and may adapt as time goes by. These people were very much into research and clinical education and had many publications and awards before they were offered faculty positions at top universities in California.

well, you must have been mistaken about your "colleagues." here is the response from the california medical board.... actually specifically from the member that deals with special faculty permits. the special faculty permit is NOT an acceptable alternative to being able to practice in california from a unapproved school. it always helps to ask and double check if you are not sure of something before posting it as a fact throughout the forum.


Hello, the applicant must graduated from one of the approved medical school listed on the Medical Board website. Please feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions.

Thank you


P**** E*****, Associate Analyst
Licensing Section
(916) 263-2343 phone
(916) 263-2487 fax


Note: My e-mail address has changed to *******@mbc.ca.gov
Please update your records.

The Medical Board of California encourages applicants to check their application status online at https://www2.mbc.ca.gov/WAAS/ ( https://www2.mbc.ca.gov/WAAS/ )
>>> ***** <*******@yahoo.com> 9/11/2011 3:41 PM >>>
Mr. E****

I have a question regarding the "Special Faculty Permit under Section 2168 of the Business and Professions Code" located here: Welcome to the Medical Board of California - Special Faculty Permit under Section 2168 of the Business and Professions Code (http://www.mbc.ca.gov/special_faculty.html)

Can a physician meet the qualifications for this permit if they graduated from a medical school that is NOT on the California Medical Boards approved list of foreign medical schools?


Thank you in advance for your response.







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