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Chiropractic Must Change!
07-09-2011, 02:33 AM
I can imagine a day where chiropractic schools are 4 full years, with a short residency, and graduates can specialize and practice in non-invasive medical specialties, with a full scope of practice within that specialty. MD.c (Medical Doctor of Chiropractic).

I can also imagine a day where chiropractic dies, as insurance reimbursements get cut off, and their medical testimonies don't hold water in personal injury cases. (Unemployed).

I just hope it's not the latter.

I assume there is a hard lobby by the "allopaths" against this sort of thing. I know there is also internal opposition among other DC's, which is a REAL shame. They are shooting their own profession in the foot, as it slowly bleeds to death.

devildoc8404
07-09-2011, 06:37 AM
Some osteopathic physicians have lobbied (unsuccessfully) for the same type of thing, and they ALREADY are full physicians with an unlimited scope of practice. Sorry, but I don't even see this happening for DOs, and the gap between DO-MD is far-and-away smaller than the gap between DC-MD.

TriageModerator
07-09-2011, 09:25 AM
Is it necessary to have the initials "MD.c" next to your name in order to strive to raise the bar, strive for the advancement of the profession and eventually establish practitioners as the most competent in the field they specialize in?

NUHS-AUC
07-09-2011, 02:24 PM
DC to DCM changes and suggestions for mainstream acceptance:

Back to an old post, the best thing to have UNIFIED position starting from NBCE, to reject the chiropractic dogma, and adopt modern scientific methods, which already started years ago, in selected few DC schools: NUHS, Western States, NYCC etc...
Issue here is some schools are holding on, and remain straight.

Step 1: Change Curriculum in ALL DC schools not just few (EBM schools) Define clear scope ADD ALL disciplines of Medicine.
Step 2: Require MCAT for admission to DC programs, and Minimum of 3.0 GPA
Step 3: Require at least 1 year of Residency in ACGME hospitals
Step 4: Licensure and Exams to include pharmacology and surgery (minor) & all disciplines/branches of medicine
Step 5: To enforce such changes, any straight DC that recommend or advise patients to follow "Straight" approach, i.e. against any form of accepted standards their license should be REVOKED and CE should be required, as they need to be with the times.

Or Tier the profession to Diploma of Manual Chiropractic VS. Doctor of Chiropractic Medicine (Physicians) which I think might add to the confusion, but this solution is inevitable since we see TWO seperate schools of thought....




Is it necessary to have the initials "MD.c" next to your name in order to strive to raise the bar, strive for the advancement of the profession and eventually establish practitioners as the most competent in the field they specialize in?

Forsaken38
07-09-2011, 07:46 PM
No, it is not. But I can appreciate the idea of separation from the old ways of thinking. And a new credential would help create a new identity.


Is it necessary to have the initials "MD.c" next to your name in order to strive to raise the bar, strive for the advancement of the profession and eventually establish practitioners as the most competent in the field they specialize in?

canuckdc
07-10-2011, 07:27 AM
I can imagine a day where chiropractic schools are 4 full years, with a short residency, and graduates can specialize and practice in non-invasive medical specialties, with a full scope of practice within that specialty. MD.c (Medical Doctor of Chiropractic).

I can also imagine a day where chiropractic dies, as insurance reimbursements get cut off, and their medical testimonies don't hold water in personal injury cases. (Unemployed).


I just hope it's not the latter.

I assume there is a hard lobby by the "allopaths" against this sort of thing. I know there is also internal opposition among other DC's, which is a REAL shame. They are shooting their own profession in the foot, as it slowly bleeds to death.


maybe you can dream.....I would say most of us that choose the path of Chiropractic because we wanted to be Chiroprators not medical doctors. We are happy with our own degree. btw Chiropractic is a full four year degree after the same prerequisites as medicine.

Chiropractic Must Change!
07-10-2011, 03:27 PM
maybe you can dream.....I would say most of us that choose the path of Chiropractic because we wanted to be Chiroprators not medical doctors. We are happy with our own degree. btw Chiropractic is a full four year degree after the same prerequisites as medicine.

Well, as I said, you are shooting your own profession (and my future profession) in the foot. "Straight" chiropractic holds no scientific merit. The subluxation dogma is false. Move on, or forever hold your peace.

PS - My Chiropractic school is 3 1/3 years, with no residency.

devildoc8404
07-10-2011, 03:49 PM
btw Chiropractic is a full four year degree after the same prerequisites as medicine.

Wait... chiropractic schools require the MCAT now? Plus a full year (each) of chem with lab, o-chem with lab, physics with lab, and bio with lab? Plus grades in at least the B+/A- range?

They certainly didn't for my brother. No... I don't think that the admissions pre-reqs could honestly be construed as equivalent.

(FWIW, that's not intended as a slam. My pops is a retired DC, my brother is a chiro student, and I have plenty of love for decent DCs.)

NUHS-AUC
07-10-2011, 04:14 PM
CORRECTION :)
Aside from the MCAT, NUHS and many others require the same pre-reqs as Medical schools :)

FYI: My GPA was 3.65 pre DC, NUHS DC averege intake GPA is 3.35 for the years 2008-2010, I'm hoping NBCE will require the MCAT, and at least 3.0 GPA !

Prerequisites for Admission - Chiropractic Medicine |*National University of Health Sciences (http://www.nuhs.edu/admissions/chiropractic-medicine/applying/prerequisites/)

I believe your brother is possibly attending the "weak" or straight DC schools, as far as we all know, the science based DC schools ALL require the latter, with at least 3.0 GPA.



Wait... chiropractic schools require the MCAT now? Plus a full year (each) of chem with lab, o-chem with lab, physics with lab, and bio with lab? Plus grades in at least the B+/A- range?

They certainly didn't for my brother. No... I don't think that the admissions pre-reqs could honestly be construed as equivalent.

(FWIW, that's not intended as a slam. My pops is a retired DC, my brother is a chiro student, and I have plenty of love for decent DCs.)

canuckdc
07-10-2011, 06:03 PM
Well, as I said, you are shooting your own profession (and my future profession) in the foot. "Straight" chiropractic holds no scientific merit. The subluxation dogma is false. Move on, or forever hold your peace.

PS - My Chiropractic school is 3 1/3 years, with no residency.

Lucky you... about the 3 1/3 years. and speak for yourself about shooting yourself in the foot. My suggestion. talk to some mentors in the field ( I take it you have not graduated) and not just subluxation based chiropractors. There are plenty of evidence based chiros out there running very successful multidisciplinary clinics. Any you know what; maybe it’s not for you. You can always quite

Jamien63
08-02-2011, 08:51 PM
I completely concur re chiro must change...in every way

thebonecrusher10
09-04-2011, 12:09 AM
Regarding the length of the DC curriculum. When I was at Palmer in Iowa (I graduated in 2010), the program IS 5 1/2 years long, but most people condense it down to 3 1/3 years (10 trimesters). A DC degree at Palmer is 308 credits.

I'm sure it's different at other schools, but at Palmer it 'techincally' is a 5 1/2 year program.

Also, the PROFESSIONAL prerequistes as the same as medical school. The INSTITUTIONAL prequistes are not the same. Palmer would take anyone (pretty much) because it's a private school and tuition driven. But the standard was objectified before students matriculated. Meaning, the bar was here and you had to at least meet it. If you didnt, you were dismissed, it's that simple.

We lost many classmates the first 3 trimesters of basica sciences. And sadly, I wish we had lost more.

numbershacker
12-09-2011, 10:44 AM
What I think really ought to happen here:
one of the chiropractic schools should work out a deal with a foreign medical school to create a joint MD/DC program-and select students that really can both
a) pass the USMLE exams
b) succeed as chiropractors


One problem with chriropractic training: there is substantial overlap with an MD program-but if a DC wants to get an MD, they are starting over. What I can imagine here:
a program where someone would take Step 1 at a foreign medical school, come back during the summers and take carefully constructed chiropractic courses-and still wind up with a DC in 3 1/2 year and would then complete an MD degree in another 1/2-2 years or vice versa(complete their MD degree in 3-1/3-4 years and then get a DC degree in 5 1/2 years. This isn't _That_ big a jump, there is already advanced standing for MD students that want to become DC's at places like Palmer.

It would just take a medical school or osteopathic college and a chiropractic school working together a bit.
Right now, osteopathic colleges sometimes do the osteopathic part of their training in the summer-a chriropractic school could do essentially a chriopractic intensive during the summer-with the courses organized and chosen so folks graduate as soon as possible.

I suspect that residency might be an issue. A lot of MD medical directors might have a prejudice against an
MD that had taken some chiropractic courses or a MD/DC--but the prejudice against DO's has gradually decreased over time.

If we'd eventually see MD/DC/Ph.D.'s then gradually the chiropractic profession could be put on a better scientific foundation. I've met chriropractors I respect. The thing is:
even a really good chiropractor has some real barriers in place towards getting advanced training.

The scheme I'm suggesting would require folks plan ahead of time. It would require some thought/organization on the part of the chiropractic schools-but I think it would reap some big rewards in the long run.







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