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yuri
05-14-2011, 09:12 PM
Does anyone know what language the final exam is at Charles or Palacky? I know the programs are in English, but I read somewhere that in order to become licensed in any country, you need to take licensing exams in that country's official language? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Under that assumption, wouldn't the final exams be in Czech?

gx255
05-14-2011, 09:16 PM
In American international medical schools english program + english exams required for practice in the united states.
For your respective countries + exams its most likely the same.

yuri
05-14-2011, 09:27 PM
In American international medical schools english program + english exams required for practice in the united states.
For your respective countries + exams its most likely the same.

So the english programs are designed for American standards?

I don't really understand what you mean, sorry.

If it helps, I'm from Canada. I know it's hard for IMGs to get residency here so I'm settling for working in Europe but I can't find any good information on the jobs and salaries available except that Czech doctors make approx. $900 USD a month and plan to strike / leave the country.

shrey
05-15-2011, 05:25 AM
Not really, the English programs are just a replica of th Czech programs but in a different language. It follows a European standard.

Physicians' salaries are horrible in CR. I would recommend looking into other European countries for working (Western Europe, UK etc.)

yuri
05-15-2011, 12:43 PM
Not really, the English programs are just a replica of th Czech programs but in a different language. It follows a European standard.

Physicians' salaries are horrible in CR. I would recommend looking into other European countries for working (Western Europe, UK etc.)

I'm really confused on how the process works when trying to find work in other European countries. On Charles' / Palacky's websites, it says the MuDr is valid for at least limited registration. I don't really know what this means exactly. I would assume you'd have to learn the language of the country you'd have to work in and do residency/internship in that country? Or can you simply after the completion of 6 years work in any country you want in the EU?

Because from my limited understanding, the way I see is that you complete your 6 years, you get your MuDr / MD but you need to complete residency/internship afterwords to start working as a doctor? So in most people's cases, they might go back to US or Canada, pass the USLME or MCCEE and then enter the residency matching program, complete residency, get their license and then start working?

Thanks for your help btw, I've spent the whole weekend trying to find answers to these questions.

devildoc8404
05-15-2011, 12:56 PM
You need to complete residency after the 6 years... the medical school completes the certification as a physician, but it is the residency training that allows you to practice medicine and know what the bleep you are actually doing.

So, yes, if you want to work in the EU, you are well-advised to complete the medical degree in the EU, and then apply for residency training in the country where you would like to work. Some countries are more welcoming than others in this regard, however. For example, Sweden will be happy to accept you as a specialist who has completed residency training, but not as a resident, so you would need to train elsewhere (and speak Swedish, although there are companies that are willing to pay to help you learn the language). Germany is crying for residents (Assistenzaerzte) right now in many specialties, so if you speak German you can often get excellent training there, although the pay isn't that great. However, again, they are mainly looking for grads from EU schools. Ireland is hiring, as well, and they seem to pay better than the Germans.

If you want to work in North America, you need to pass the USMLE/MCCEE (FWIW do NOT take the USMLE after medical school, take the Steps during medical school after the 3rd or 4th year) and then apply to match into a residency program there. Canada is really-really-really hard to match into from overseas, from a strict numbers standpoint. (The US is only really... or perhaps really-really... hard to match into from overseas. Far easier than Canada, anyway, depending on the specialty.)

gx255
05-15-2011, 01:12 PM
what devildoc said

yuri
05-15-2011, 01:28 PM
You need to complete residency after the 6 years... the medical school completes the certification as a physician, but it is the residency training that allows you to practice medicine and know what the bleep you are actually doing.

So, yes, if you want to work in the EU, you are well-advised to complete the medical degree in the EU, and then apply for residency training in the country where you would like to work. Some countries are more welcoming than others in this regard, however. For example, Sweden will be happy to accept you as a specialist who has completed residency training, but not as a resident, so you would need to train elsewhere (and speak Swedish, although there are companies that are willing to pay to help you learn the language). Germany is crying for residents (Assistenzaerzte) right now in many specialties, so if you speak German you can often get excellent training there, although the pay isn't that great. However, again, they are mainly looking for grads from EU schools. Ireland is hiring, as well, and they seem to pay better than the Germans.

If you want to work in North America, you need to pass the USMLE/MCCEE (FWIW do NOT take the USMLE after medical school, take the Steps during medical school after the 3rd or 4th year) and then apply to match into a residency program there. Canada is really-really-really hard to match into from overseas, from a strict numbers standpoint. (The US is only really... or perhaps really-really... hard to match into from overseas. Far easier than Canada, anyway, depending on the specialty.)

Thanks for your informative post

I just looked at the Irish Medical Council website and in the registration for internship it says:

"it is worth noting that the HSE will not consider applications for intern training posts from graduates (of whatever nationality) from Medical Schools in the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Spain, France, Cyprus, Iceland, Latvia, Hungary, Netherlands, Romania, Slovenia, Switzerland and the Slovak Republic."

So does that mean you can simply register and become a GP in ireland? Or is inter training and residency not the same thing?

brusmani
05-15-2011, 04:03 PM
Thanks for your informative post

I just looked at the Irish Medical Council website and in the registration for internship it says:

"it is worth noting that the HSE will not consider applications for intern training posts from graduates (of whatever nationality) from Medical Schools in the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Spain, France, Cyprus, Iceland, Latvia, Hungary, Netherlands, Romania, Slovenia, Switzerland and the Slovak Republic."

So does that mean you can simply register and become a GP in ireland? Or is inter training and residency not the same thing?

This is very interesting,I didn't know the Irish medical council was that strict.As far as I understand intern training and residency is the same thing,I might be wrong,but I understand the Irish medical council is not willing to accept graduates from those countries,really weird...

yuri
05-15-2011, 04:08 PM
This is very interesting,I didn't know the Irish medical council was that strict.As far as I understand intern training and residency is the same thing,I might be wrong,but I understand the Irish medical council is not willing to accept graduates from those countries,really weird...

Sorry, I should have added the second part to that paragraph. Here it is:

"it is worth noting that the HSE will not consider applications for intern training posts from graduates (of whatever nationality) from Medical Schools in the following countries:
Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Spain, France, Cyprus, Iceland, Latvia, Hungary, Netherlands, Romania, Slovenia, Switzerland and the Slovak Republic.

This is because these graduates are deemed, under EU legislation, to have already completed their medical training to a standard equivalent to that of a graduate of an Irish medical school who has already completed internship training and has been awarded a Certificate of Experience."

medicalcouncil.ie/Registration/First-Time-Applicants/Internship-Registration/

I did assume before intern training and residency are the same thing but Ireland thinks otherwise?

devildoc8404
05-15-2011, 04:32 PM
(Yeah... I was confused by that, as well, since Ireland just had a ton of recruiters here in BG looking for doctors... that second paragraph is kind of important!)

No, internship is NOT considered residency training in the EU. In most EU cases, the internship training is completed before graduation, and most EU residencies require that internship before the onset of residency training. (Note that this is a bit different from the US, where internship is the first year of residency, and by definition comes after graduation.)

Now, you can work in Ireland as a Staff House Officer (SHO) without completing residency training, but with internship experience... but I can't imagine why anyone would choose that as a career path. The pay is for crap.

yuri
05-15-2011, 05:09 PM
(Yeah... I was confused by that, as well, since Ireland just had a ton of recruiters here in BG looking for doctors... that second paragraph is kind of important!)

No, internship is NOT considered residency training in the EU. In most EU cases, the internship training is completed before graduation, and most EU residencies require that internship before the onset of residency training. (Note that this is a bit different from the US, where internship is the first year of residency, and by definition comes after graduation.)

Now, you can work in Ireland as a Staff House Officer (SHO) without completing residency training, but with internship experience... but I can't imagine why anyone would choose that as a career path. The pay is for crap.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Do you know if its realistic to find residency in the UK or Ireland after completing a Czech school? And would you need to pass additional exams like the PLAB (UK) or PRES and OSCE (Ireland). The GMC and Ireland Medical Council websites are horribly confusing.

devildoc8404
05-15-2011, 05:19 PM
England is brutal for residency training unless you are a UK citizen (even with an EU passport... and almost impossible without it, from what I have seen). Ireland, however, had recruiters at my school a month ago. They definitely have SHO and specialist jobs available, and mentioned some residency positions as well. With an EU medical degree and native English fluency, it does not appear that additional exams are required. You would want to verify that independently, of course. You might contact the people at Locumotion | Locum Recruitment Agency in Ireland | Locum Doctor Jobs | UK | Australia | South Africa (http://www.locumotion.com) - they are recruiters for Ireland and would know exactly how it all works far better than medical students would. :)

yuri
05-15-2011, 06:08 PM
Wow, thanks a lot for your help. :) I was becoming worried about career options after Charles.

devildoc8404
05-15-2011, 06:16 PM
If you want to work in the States, USMD or USDO are by far your best options. If you are hung up on studying in Europe, Ireland is a better option than anything in the E-EU, as are the native-language medical schools in W-EU (if you speak a European language fluently). E-EU is not your best choice, despite Charles First Faculty having a decent reputation, and Prague being really cool.

Just bear that in mind.

yuri
05-15-2011, 06:24 PM
Canadian med schools are pretty hard to get in, and I kind of screwed up my first year undergrad GPA. US med schools are pretty damn expensive and also hard to get into.

Ireland is pretty damn expensive too though, that's why I'm not considering it.

I read that the US med system isn't that great due to overhead costs, malpractice insurance, dealing with low income patients (if you don't specialize/do family medicine) and turning people down because they don't have money to pay, I dont think I could live doing that.

The way I see it now, if I could get EU citizenship/EC rights then I'm good for UK.

devildoc8404
05-15-2011, 06:41 PM
Yeah, Canada is tough. The good thing about Ireland is that it's Commonwealth country, and the schools have a good reputation back home. Far better than E-EU schools, even Charles First, Jagiellonian and Semmelweis.

Remember that it is not easy to get EU citizenship as a student (residency rules change if you are a student -- you can't just say "I lived here for five years, woohoo!" They either don't count the years at all on a student visa, or they count as half years, depending on the country)... unless you marry an EU National, of course.

FWIW, from someone with a little salt in his goatee, I would a MILLION TIMES OVER recommend studying in Ireland as opposed to the E-EU schools. The cost is well-well-WELL worth it in minimizing the amount of unbelievable headaches that are simply part of the system in the E-EU, and having an organized and excellent medical education. You can get loans for Ireland, the standard of living is far better, and most importantly, the medical and especially clinical education you receive will be better overall.

There is some (far too infrequent, in my experience) good teaching to be found in E-EU, but overall organization is a complete afterthought (if it exists at all), and the post-communist mindset will make you bleeping crazy. It really will.

Sooooo... it's absolutely your life, but from someone who's been there? I would pick Ireland. The costs will even out over the course of a few years in practice, and your degree will be far more respected. I certainly wish that I had known about Ireland being open for foreign medical students back in the day.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

yuri
05-15-2011, 07:12 PM
Thanks man, and good luck on finishing your studies as well.

I'll look into Ireland but money is still a factor and I doubt that I could get a loan but I'll have to do some more research on that.

md2b2k7
05-22-2011, 03:52 AM
At Palacky and HK, Final exams and "State" exams are in English. The US accepts two English programs in CZ for eligibility to take the USMLE: Palacky and 1st Faculty in Prague. California will only allow 1st Faculty to practice in their state, but all others are open. USMLE will allow you residency in the US.

As for staying in CZ, it's possible but the pay is so low that there is really no way to pay back loans - and the language is nearly impossible for English speakers. Many other EU countries accept the degree and you can go to work there. Germany offered a position to a Canadian, German speaking, who graduated ths year and did her "praxis" there for six weeks before completing the program. UK is open, but jobs in London are hard - you go straight in as a Junior Doctor is you're hired. Non-EU people must take a language competency exam (yes, even Americans and Canadians, but not members of EU who cannot speak the language LOL!), then it's a matter of getting hired.

I would work backwards if I were you. Decide where I want to go, then work my plan around that. However, it's safe to assume that you can get employment with a degree in an English program in CZ.

Best wishes, fi9rst year is the hardest no matter what!

jmadhlooty
05-29-2011, 12:44 PM
Is it more difficult if you wait until after you graduated 6yrs and why? im a US-IMG from charles univ just now finishing up... any advice what i should do?







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