View Full Version : assessing the odds.....

07-08-2004, 08:10 AM
Some things just occurred to me as I was reading here.

There are several people like azskeptic and Picard and others who post articles and items meant to show the problems of St. Chris for the benefit of prospective students. I think this is a good thing and really the point of the forum, free exchange of ideas and information.

However, it just struck me that, most likely, graduates of SC will be able to practice medicine in the United States. Here is why I say that, and this is the absolute honest truth, not embellished in the least and not devised for purposes of entertainment or attention:

As many here know, I lost many years and a lot of money in a foreign sham med school in India. About eighteen months after my return I spent a LOT of time speaking with a man named Bill Kelly at the ECFMG in Philadelphia. I explained to him how I had attended this school which subsequently shut its doors but about fifty students had transferred to the University of the West Indies through a special and incredibly corrupt ($$) arrangement with the Dean there.

These students were accepted into clinical sciences at UWI, graduated, and were allowed to sit for the USMLEs afterwards and are in residency now.

This is despite attending a wholly unaccredited school for their basic sciences. And not just unaccredited by WHO but also by Medical Council of India, which is kind of unbelievable because THAT is a rubber-stamp organization if there ever was one.

I explained all of this in painstaking detail to Kelly, with very specific timelines, dates, names (of admin at both schools and students who had fraudulently sat for usmle), and in fact I did so a second time in a conference call he had arranged with his colleagues.

I will make this prediction right now, Picard and az and all you guys.......I basically agree with you on your points re SC except that these graduates almost certainly will be allowed to obtain licensure. It's true that Cali and TX may be particular about this stuff. Most of the other states just don't care and couldn't be less bothered.

Kelly asked me toward the end of the conference call "how much of this is due to your particular outcome at this school". I really didn't feel that was professional, given the very serious charges presented with great specificity. He said they would investigate, but I never heard from him again and he didn't even return my phone calls and emails.

None of this is a bluff. Through private email channels not involving ValueMD and its terms of service, I can provide very clear details, names of people who are today in residency who didn't attend an accredited school for basic sciences, who never studied basic sciences at UWI for one day and yet were certified as having done so. I can provide the names of the people and where they are in residency, and if ECFMG had been remotely interested in doing their job it would have been super easy to look at someone's passport and exit/entry stamps and ascertain he/she was in India for the entire time he was supposed to be in Trinidad.

But ECFMG doesn't care, as accurately noted by the resident skeptics here, it's a secretarial service. However, you gotta understand that there are states whose bureaucrats are even lazier and more apathetic than the ECFMG. Yes, even those on the medical board and doing the grunt, secretarial work of licensure.

Ultimately, this is why so many schools have sprung up in the Carib and this is why places like SC will probably survive although with not much in the way of reputation, kinda like Spartan which limps along year after year.

So, in that sense, the SC peeps will have the last laugh. I still think the school is a scam and an insult to the idea of medical education, but if you can't get in anywhere else or hate the Caribbean, I can see where it would serve some purpose as the medical profession in this country is just too easy to infiltrate illegitimately (but that's not to detract from the tremendous work they must do to reach that point)

07-08-2004, 01:10 PM
I've been doing some checking and believe that you'll see INCREASED problems of gaining acceptance if your program has some problems.

Reason why: State Medical Boards don't want to get into problems in the press. They are scrutinizing the offshore schools and will depend on the FSMB/AIM study group to screen schools.

Will some students from schools with charter/recognition problems get through? Yep.....but not all and that is where the rub is.....heck, let's be honest, some students of online programs may get through but will they stay through?

az skeptic

07-08-2004, 03:18 PM
to have read that you were a victim of a scam before and that you may still be reeling from that...
St. Chris may not be the school some people try to paint it to be but i'm confident to state that it is trying to get to the status of more established schools. Sometimes it is easier to believe what others say about anything...be it work or relationships, but it behooves anyone to take a first hand look at "anything" before making statements.
Drs. Picard and Teratos have made several good points in the past and I trust that they will still do the same until things are straightened out. They have not been judgmental of the quality of education we get from this school nor the fact that the school have graduates that are now in residency. Their concern lies on licensure which will be answered fairly soon as the first graduates head for the bee line towards that end.
I can honestly state that this school have teething problems, but has come a long way from the time that I first visited (while still at Luton University) till now that it has acquired its own buildings and infrastructure. A lot of post were made in the past as to the location and other issues, but clearly, the only issue that separates this school from any other offhsore school is that it is new and operates legally as a business entity here in England instead of Senegal. Being a campus out of it country of charter may prove to be an issue, but, it hasn't yet and nobody in this forum can stand say it has. Even GMC, on its letter of recognition of St. Christopher's as a foreign school (you can see this letter on St. Chris' homepage) stated that the graduates from this school are allowed to sit PLAB and one other test in line for a limited registration.
I read your post and it occurs to me that you come short in mentioning that St. Christopher is a diploma mill. I think you are right, this is a business...a big business...but so are the very many schools around the world....they are all out to make some money, no matter how small or big the schools are. For schools to operate and educate a 90% American student population and to state nobly that they are there solely for the student's education are lying...no if's or but's about it. This is especially true with all the Caribbean schools, some European schools, and yes, St. Christopher's.
If you have a bone to pick with this school or your former school, then don't take it out on the students. Mentioning the fact that you were ready to squeal out the names of your former classmates regarding their "supposed scam" i'm sure is not gonna win you friends nor gain you enemies...it just shows true colors.
At any rate, your insights are well thought out although scathing at times. I hope things turn out okay for you as you trudge the same path we do.



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