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FoxFireWhite
04-08-2010, 06:17 AM
Hi there,

I just got accepted to the 1st Faculty of Medicine at Charles for this September and I'd like to find out who will be my future class mates. Maybe we could discuss preparations for the program and moving to Prague.

Pierre
04-08-2010, 03:29 PM
Hello Foxfirewhite !
I just have a quick question,
how, did you get that fast accepted in Charles 1st faculty ? I saw the exam entrance was on June 16th. Is there any other way to get accepted in that case ?
I'm also planning to get in this university, so i would be grateful for any reply!
Thank you.

shrey
04-08-2010, 03:55 PM
I think the best way to get to know other future students is to find them on Facebook (there are groups like First Faculty of Medicine, Charles University and others that are similar.)

Enjoy your break and good luck for the upcoming school year!

medical inventor
04-09-2010, 10:55 PM
What is your evidence that you can get licensure in US after attending Charles?
Respectfully,
John B

FoxFireWhite
04-10-2010, 04:08 AM
Hello Foxfirewhite !
I just have a quick question,
how, did you get that fast accepted in Charles 1st faculty ? I saw the exam entrance was on June 16th. Is there any other way to get accepted in that case ?
I'm also planning to get in this university, so i would be grateful for any reply!
Thank you.
Pierre,

I wrote the test through the Jan & Betka Papanek foundation in New York. North American students can write the test anytime, anywhere in North America with the help of this foundation.

firzen246
04-11-2010, 11:55 AM
hey i had just did first faculty of medicine entrance exam in Kuala lumpur malaysia yesterday on the 10 april. In my opinion, The exam was very hard and out of 40 only 10 make it. In addition, the minimum criteria of overall marks score are chem,bio,phy or math must score over 77% to get into for the interview. Unfortunately, i did not make it so i had applied to faculty of medicine in hardac karlive instead. Anyway good luck and all the best for those who are going to take the entrance exam on the 16 june.

firzen246
04-11-2010, 11:57 AM
hey i had just did first faculty of medicine entrance exam in Kuala lumpur malaysia yesterday on the 10 april. In my opinion, The exam was very hard and out of 40 only 10 make it. In addition, the minimum criteria of overall marks score are chem,bio,phy or math must score over 77% to get into the interview. Unfortunately, i did not make it so i had applied to faculty of medicine in hardac karlove instead. Anyway good luck and all the best for those who are going to take the entrance exam on the 16 june.

medical inventor
04-11-2010, 03:29 PM
Hey, can you give an example question or two, on the hard side? No insult implied, but "hard" varies among people...Thanks. (If you agreed not to tell, just change a bit.)
Here are a few I would consider hard:
What kind of moiety is BH3? (chem)
-detailed q's on buffers, gas laws, periodic trends, pH, stiochiometry, electrochem, equil k reax, properties compounds, solubility, TDX
Organic chem: classes molecules, isomers, reactions, mechanisms, orbitals, proteins
Physics: energy, momentum, gravitation, impulse, electricity, waves, optics, units, gas laws,
Biology: details of genetic code, microbiology, anatomy, evolution, details of metabolic pathways, muscle, nerve, physiology, cell structure, protein structure.

A main question is: what was the balance between empirical knowledge (e.g. what is the color of Fe2O3) vs. theoretical knowledge (e.g. calculate the transfer of velocity between two colliding bodies of mass m1,m2 etc.)
How does it compare to the MCAT?

I am probably very knowledgeable about science and available to tutor anyone in this area.

Thanks in advance. JB

firzen246
04-13-2010, 09:52 AM
Mostly, the question will be base on table data and Graph which you have to interpret them base on the multiple choice. For bioloGy mostly it came from human part and for chemistry it was oranic cem and inoranic. I am not sure about physic as i did math section.Last but not least t he question were very tricky and more t han one answer could be a correct answer.

medical inventor
04-13-2010, 11:43 AM
Dear Firzen
Thanks for reply and I hope you did OK on test.
Say can you tell me how to get information about and apply to Charles?
I would appreciate that, and any way I can assist you, let me know.
I have spent time recently finding out about licensability from foreign medical schools. The future is very bright. I just read a Wall Street Journal article that the U.S. will need 150,000 additional docs within ten years. US med schools only graduate 15,000 per year, and practically none do primary care, so that leaves the img in a good spot, maybe.
Let me know about Charles, if you would.
John

firzen246
04-14-2010, 01:25 AM
Unfortunately, I did not make it into the first faculty of medicine as my result was not up to 80 percent. however i had just applied to the faculty of medicine in hardac karlove and i will be doin the entrance exam on the 22 may. Well, you can apply directly to the first faculty of medicine or any first faculty of medicine representative in your country . But for me, i had applied at malaysia as it is near to my country in Bangkok and i need not need to fly to prague for an examination instead the first facutly of medicine representative Malaysia had arranged an entrance examination in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. Last but not least thank you for your assist and if u have any question regarding about first faculty of medicine feel free to ask me i can always answer your question.
Lester

shrey
04-14-2010, 08:32 AM
Well you can always transfer to the First Faculty after the 1st or 2nd years (it's best to do it either after 2nd year or after 3rd year.)

Good luck to you!

FoxFireWhite
04-14-2010, 09:22 AM
Thanks, Shrey.

You are the Batman of Charles University.

russiamedik
04-14-2010, 09:34 AM
The more I do research and read different opinions and views including official ministries of health of different countries, it seems that the best way is to study in your own country. In regards that US will need more docs seems logical but it absolutely does not mean that they will accept foreigners. In regards to Charles I am thinking of applying myself but in order to practice in Czech Republic you need to be a citizen and in the rest of Europe you have to pass exams of that country as well.

firzen246
04-14-2010, 10:40 AM
Dear Shrey,

If i am enrolling at faculty of medicine in hadrac karlove. Wat are the criteria to transfer te first faculty of medicine. Could u recommend me after second year or tird year is the best option to transfer and is it easy to transfer as i heard from many post stating that thre first faculty of medicine dont usually accept transfer student. Thanks!

shrey
04-14-2010, 10:42 AM
At FoxFireWhite: lol thanks but I don't think I would have gotten into medical school if I were Batman. I just happen to be one of the few students on this forum form Charles...that's it. It's a long store as to why I'm active on this forum but let's just say that it helped me meet some of my current friends at my uni. and some people gave me some excellent advice. Besides, it's always nice to get to know people from all over the world.

russiamedik: you're absolutely right about the US. Just coz they're going to need more docs, doesn't mean they'll make the rules less stringent. As a matter of fact, they recently opened 2 or 3 (not sure) new medical colleges in the US. Regarding practicing in the Czech Republic, no, you don't have to be a citizen. If you've graduated from Charles University and are fluent in Czech, you can directly start work. It's a lot easier if you're a graduate from a medical university in Czech Republic (as opposed to say, a non-EU country like Ukraine or Croatia.)

medical inventor
04-14-2010, 10:53 AM
Thanks to all Bat-people for information and replies! ;) I have a question about Charles - when I google them, one of the hits comes back to valuemed where is a home page of sorts. Is that the home page? I thought I saw a site in Czech language, not sure. Is it possible to contact them directly, not only the english med school but also the university?
Thanks for any clarification of the org structure...
John B

shrey
04-14-2010, 11:06 AM
Well Charles University is actually comprised of 5 different medical faculties: 3 of which are in Prague, 1 in Hradec Kralove and 1 in Pilsen.

This is the website for Charles Univ. First Faculty of Medicine: First Faculty of Medicine, Charles University in Prague (http://www.lf1.cuni.cz/en)

Below are the links for the other faculties:
2nd Faculty - Homepage - 2nd Faculty of Medicine (http://www.lf2.cuni.cz/homepage.htm)
3rd Faculty - Third Faculty of Medicine (http://www.lf3.cuni.cz/en/index.html) (the only faculty that's different from the rest; they use the PBL approach.)
Faculty at Hradec Kralove - Faculty of Medicine (http://www.lfhk.cuni.cz/default.asp?nLanguageID=2)
Faculty at Pilsen - Lékařská fakulta UK v Plzni (http://www.lfp.cuni.cz/study_english.aspx?)

The other 2 medical schools which are not part of Charles are:
1) Masaryk University, Brno - a new medical school; great infrastructure; not as strict as the Charles Faculties.
2) Palacky University, Olomouc

Yes, you can contact them or even email them: Students' office - 1st Faculty of Medicine (http://www.lf1.cuni.cz/en/students-office?f=for-students)

There is no separate med school for English speaking students. There is the Czech parallel and then there's the English parallel. The Czech parallel is a lot harder (I think they have something around 600 students in the 1st year!) If you know Czech, then you can even get in touch with the Czech student's office.

medical inventor
04-14-2010, 11:08 AM
Well, a lack of docs is probably better than too many. :) In the U.S., docs are switching to salary positionms at hospitals rather than run their own practice. I know a doc in San Francisco who has 4 clerks just to deal with paper work. He makes around $120,000 a year, but one year a clerk stole a lot of money. 120k is actually not great pay, considering the huge investment of time and money to get a license. I was looking to rent a building near SF one day, and I met the janitor who showed me the room. I noticed he seemed more than a typical janitor, and he told me he was a former surgeon who got out of the field because of paper-work. He showed a me a room full of medical records he had to keep. (of course, I think he owned the office building.:D)
So in sum the medical system in U.S. is rapidly converting to a salaried system with government control, increasingly work-place is a hospital, not a private practice. Actually, salaried and private numbers are equal now, a big change from even a few years ago.
I think way to approach medicine is as a business guy, rather than a wage slave. Stick your mug on a highway bill board and offer hearing aids for less, etc. Just my opinion.

maximillian genossa
04-14-2010, 11:16 AM
That's what lawyers in Texas do;)




Well, a lack of docs is probably better than too many. :) In the U.S., docs are switching to salary positionms at hospitals rather than run their own practice. I know a doc in San Francisco who has 4 clerks just to deal with paper work. He makes around $120,000 a year, but one year a clerk stole a lot of money. 120k is actually not great pay, considering the huge investment of time and money to get a license. I was looking to rent a building near SF one day, and I met the janitor who showed me the room. I noticed he seemed more than a typical janitor, and he told me he was a former surgeon who got out of the field because of paper-work. He showed a me a room full of medical records he had to keep. (of course, I think he owned the office building.:D)
So in sum the medical system in U.S. is rapidly converting to a salaried system with government control, increasingly work-place is a hospital, not a private practice. Actually, salaried and private numbers are equal now, a big change from even a few years ago.
I think way to approach medicine is as a business guy, rather than a wage slave. Stick your mug on a highway bill board and offer hearing aids for less, etc. Just my opinion.

shrey
04-14-2010, 11:31 AM
I'm confused, what are we exactly talking about?

maximillian genossa
04-14-2010, 12:12 PM
We got off topic, sorry.


I'm confused, what are we exactly talking about?

shrey
04-15-2010, 09:30 AM
Haha, it's ok. I was just a bit lost.

medical inventor
04-15-2010, 11:00 AM
Thank you Aviv and shrey et al for your responses.
Some of these may not be relevant to this venue, but I am catholic in my interests. Let me know any particular interests you may have.
Topics of interest to me include:
-img's in residency and licensure: statistics
-future of medical practice in U.S. - changing face
-medical innovation: why does the medical community resist it
-entrepreneurial activity in medicine
-the philosophy of medical science: what is it?
and quite a few others. This may be too intellectual for this board, but you can never tell. Even top doctors don't have a clue about many of these issues - I believe understanding them can give you enormous leverage in the field.
John B

shrey
04-15-2010, 11:54 AM
I'm not really into the statistics part of residency and licensure but I find the entire process or residency (in different countries) quite interesting.

Other topics I like:
1) comparative study of healthcare systems all around the world
2) medico-legal jurisprudence (as I did go to law school for a year and a half and then quit lol) dealing with medical law, medical torts, and forensic medicine
3) core surgical procedures and innovation in invasive surgery
4) a few other non-medical careers in the health-care field (like working in the WHO and other non-profit organizations.)
5) medical ethics and psychology
6) and I think the rest of the topics deal with core medicine (in the fields of Microbiology and Surgery.)

maximillian genossa
04-15-2010, 11:58 AM
We have common ground here, those are the reasons why I ALWAYS encourage prospective students to apply into well established medical schools if they decide to go the IMG or FMG route.


Thank you Aviv and shrey et al for your responses.
Some of these may not be relevant to this venue, but I am catholic in my interests. Let me know any particular interests you may have.
Topics of interest to me include:
-img's in residency and licensure: statistics
-future of medical practice in U.S. - changing face
-medical innovation: why does the medical community resist it
-entrepreneurial activity in medicine
-the philosophy of medical science: what is it?
and quite a few others. This may be too intellectual for this board, but you can never tell. Even top doctors don't have a clue about many of these issues - I believe understanding them can give you enormous leverage in the field.
John B

medical inventor
04-16-2010, 01:21 AM
Shrey quote and a few of my thoughts relating to them-

=========================
Other topics I like:
1) comparative study of healthcare systems all around the world
2) medico-legal jurisprudence (as I did go to law school for a year and a half and then quit lol) dealing with medical law, medical torts, and forensic medicine
3) core surgical procedures and innovation in invasive surgery
4) a few other non-medical careers in the health-care field (like working in the WHO and other non-profit organizations.)
5) medical ethics and psychology
6) and I think the rest of the topics deal with core medicine (in the fields of Microbiology and Surgery.) Here's shrey quote:
============================

comparative: The Chinese spend a fraction of US, but many disease rates lower and lifespan almost as long. 80% of what US doctors treat are lifestyle diseases.
medico-legal: not knowledgeable about.
surgical: I saw Da Vinci system at Stanford med school. I dissected cadaver with failed surgery. not knowledgeable about future directions in this area, though.
non-medical careers. I lean towards making 10 million $ in a medical clinic, rather than a bureaucratic venue. I am interested in the challenges of doing that in an increasingly bureaucratic medical system like the US. I am an entrepreneurial libertarian, and I believe in "disruptive innovation" to challenge and replace inadequate and complacent medical bureaucracies. (Bill Gates, with the PC, disrupted the hegemony of the large mainframe, etc. That's how innovation works.) I am cooncerned that the img will get thrown crumbs by the medical establishment and end up with sh** jobs. I think docs need to get biz smarts. Here's a typical idea: Start a company that is a representative for hospitals in Singapore and India. Some are better than US hospitals. As a doc (or resident) interview people with diseases and send them off to Singapore, if warranted. Think people won't go to Singapore for superior care? They buy cars from Japan because they are better. It's disruptive because it competes with US hospitals by offering better product at fraction of the cost. Just an example. Dr. Shetty in India has applied this approach to poor people. Make a fortune and give part to the poor. The rich in a "socialist" system will pay for superior care from private sources.
medical ethics and psychology - plagiarism scandal with medical journals last year. Many docs are corrupt. Don't kid yourself about this. Drug companies were writing articles and docs signing them. widespread.
microbiology - nosocomial infections in hospitals. In US, they admit to 100,000 deaths a year, but I suspect it is 500,000. mrsa, cfe, etc. 50% of docs don't wash hands. antibiotics don't work any more. drug companies not developing antibiotics. In surgery, a return to Lister is needed: flood the surgical site with a local antiseptic. He used phenol, but many non-toxic modern chemicals are better. Force surgeons to keep sterility better, or fire them. Put them under video surveillance with microbiologist watching.
Just some thoughts. In the case of nosocomial infections, the entrepreneurial attack on this problem is to have hospital with superior infection control, and advertise that fact to the public, criticizing the current system. (This is essentially what Mayo, Sloan-Kettering, and Mass General do. They are flooded with patients.)
Overall, there is a radically different ethic at work here than the "craftsman" ethic of the typical doctor, who just sells their time with no differentiation.
Becase of passivity learned in the medical education, and other causes, the typical modern US doctor:
-thinks like a union worker
-is pessimistic, resigned
-does not know how to leverage their skill and instead sells their time by the hour.
-doesn't care about innovation, or is powerless to change
-trapped by debt
-takes direction from drug companies and medical establishment
-is bossed by corrupt administrators above
-cannot think creatively within the scientific framework of medicine. Has no understanding of the scientific basis of medicine and its limits.
-is afraid of risk
The entrepreneurial approach is realistic about the above and seeks to circumvent it. (disruptive innovation)
Examples abound, but it is known that if you cool a heart-arrest case, with ice in the ambulance, and later at the hospital, then mortality is much less. Do hospitals do this? NO!
Here's another case: I was treating a 90 yr old woman for pulmonary infection in a SF hospital. (as a paramedic) They were giving her near 100% oxygen. I asked nurses why no water vapor to raise 0% humiidity of oxygen. "That is not done." I asked head of hospital, and he said the hoses between water vapor and oxygen were not compatible. I said "why dont you adapt them." He said, "oh." Then several days later a young doc was claiming credit for this breakthrough. It had been that way for a hundred years. thats medical innovation for ya.
Interested in any of this?
JB

shrey
04-16-2010, 05:21 AM
comparative: The Chinese spend a fraction of US, but many disease rates lower and lifespan almost as long. 80% of what US doctors treat are lifestyle diseases. I was actually referring to the advantages of having non-privatized healthcare (like in most of Europe.) Nevertheless, you do mention a good point about these Chinese and their long lifespans. I think it has a lot to do with their diet and exercise. Most Americans are sedentary and they pay a price for that. They don't really eat all that healthy either which just aggravates the problem.

Or better yet, these guys should learn from the French (coming from a Western country) -- who consume large quantities of wine each day and smoke like crazy. Despite all this, they do get lots of exercise and do eat healthy. They also don't have the habit of snacking throughout the day as their meals tend to come in numerous portions (~5-7 courses/meal)...so junk food is usually out of the picutre. Nevertheless, smoking is still detrimental and the French have to seriously get it in their heads that's it's not cool anymore (sorry, I just ran off on a tangent from Chinese to French people.)

Either ways, I think the fast food joints in the US need to be BANNED or serve fast "healthy" food. Or they should follow the Norwegian approach to life i.e. tax everything and tax it high! It's no wonder why a majority of Norwegians don't eat out at these joints or don't drink or smoke way too much (again due to the high taxes.)


surgical: I saw Da Vinci system at Stanford med school. I dissected cadaver with failed surgery. not knowledgeable about future directions in this area, though. That's cool! My uncle's hospital has one. Hopefully, I'll get to check it out sometime next year. It's interesting how they're looking into programming these robotic geniuses to place prosthetic valves into the human heart. They still have a lot of ground to cover but it sure is a break-through in medical technology - kudos to their innovation :)


non-medical careers. I lean towards making 10 million $ in a medical clinic, rather than a bureaucratic venue. I am interested in the challenges of doing that in an increasingly bureaucratic medical system like the US. I am an entrepreneurial libertarian, and I believe in "disruptive innovation" to challenge and replace inadequate and complacent medical bureaucracies. (Bill Gates, with the PC, disrupted the hegemony of the large mainframe, etc. That's how innovation works.) I am cooncerned that the img will get thrown crumbs by the medical establishment and end up with sh** jobs. I think docs need to get biz smarts. Here's a typical idea: Start a company that is a representative for hospitals in Singapore and India. Some are better than US hospitals. As a doc (or resident) interview people with diseases and send them off to Singapore, if warranted. Think people won't go to Singapore for superior care? They buy cars from Japan because they are better. It's disruptive because it competes with US hospitals by offering better product at fraction of the cost. Just an example. Dr. Shetty in India has applied this approach to poor people. Make a fortune and give part to the poor. The rich in a "socialist" system will pay for superior care from private sources. I'm not quite sure as to what you mean by disruptive innovation or rather how do you plan to use this to challenge "complacent" medical bureaucracies? And unfortunately my friend, the IMGs are already getting the leftovers that the AMGs don't want. Sad but true, and I guess it makes sense for each country to give priority to it's own medical graduates first and then the rest. I believe your example of biz smarts is already being applied in several Asian countries (the so-called "medical tourism") and yes, the companies as well as their medical staff are quite well-compensated for their time and effort. I do believe this is quite smart es especially if you're more of an entrepreneur.

I have been doing some research regarding medical tourism in India (as my aunt, a Thoracic surgeon married an Indian hospital CEO-surgeon and is living quite a dream. She makes 10x more than her own sister in the US (who is a cardio-thoracic surgeon.) but she is pretty service-oriented. I don't mind the financial remuneration aspects of joining a private/corporate health practice but in the end, I am and will alwayns be an individualistic humanitarian as always (and a libertarian in many ways too :)), so my main aim is to "serve the poor". This is one other reason why I would like to work or volunteer for a bit in Africa/Sri Lanka/India...just to get the feel for it (and besides, there's also a fair amount of exposure to diseases I might have never seen in Europe/US.)


medical ethics and psychology - plagiarism scandal with medical journals last year. Many docs are corrupt. Don't kid yourself about this. Drug companies were writing articles and docs signing them. widespread. Haha, usually when there's drug companies involved (and they are in most cases), the boundaries of ethics are blurred or perhaps even fade away at some point of time. But I won't get into that as I'm not well acquainted with how pharmacological companies work. What I do find interesting is regarding the law of euthanasia/assisted suicide in Europe and I would like to know how the American doctors would respond to this law if it were to cross their patients' minds.


microbiology - nosocomial infections in hospitals. In US, they admit to 100,000 deaths a year, but I suspect it is 500,000. mrsa, cfe, etc. 50% of docs don't wash hands. antibiotics don't work any more. drug companies not developing antibiotics. [quote]

I do believe MRSA is quite deadly. However, I'm surprised antibiotics don't work anymore? Do you mean to say what my lippincott's book says is B.S.? ( it says that while MRSA is quite resistant to a range of antibiotic drugs, vancomycin is still used in most cases as the starter drug as it's one of the multiple-drug resistant antibiotics" I think Pseudomonas also tops the list of nosocomial infections, not just in the US, but throughout the world.)

[quote]Just some thoughts. In the case of nosocomial infections, the entrepreneurial attack on this problem is to have hospital with superior infection control, and advertise that fact to the public, criticizing the current system. (This is essentially what Mayo, Sloan-Kettering, and Mass General do. They are flooded with patients.)I don't believe this is entrepreneurial. It's more of an administrative measure that needs to be taken up by the hospital and yes, it's already in practice. Most patients suffering from nosocomial and opportunistic infections are usually kept in separate wards (to the extent of being squared off in a little cubicle.) Nevertheless, the administration can only do so much. Blame the bacteria for this! Perhaps the next measure would be to ship them to outer space? (they might just be resistant to the host of bacteria living in those planets? - kidding.)


Overall, there is a radically different ethic at work here than the "craftsman" ethic of the typical doctor, who just sells their time with no differentiation.
Becase of passivity learned in the medical education, and other causes, the typical modern US doctor:
-thinks like a union worker
-is pessimistic, resigned
-does not know how to leverage their skill and instead sells their time by the hour.
-doesn't care about innovation, or is powerless to change
-trapped by debt
-takes direction from drug companies and medical establishment
-is bossed by corrupt administrators above
-cannot think creatively within the scientific framework of medicine. Has no understanding of the scientific basis of medicine and its limits.
-is afraid of risk
The entrepreneurial approach is realistic about the above and seeks to circumvent it. (disruptive innovation)
Examples abound, but it is known that if you cool a heart-arrest case, with ice in the ambulance, and later at the hospital, then mortality is much less. Do hospitals do this? NO!
Here's another case: I was treating a 90 yr old woman for pulmonary infection in a SF hospital. (as a paramedic) They were giving her near 100% oxygen. I asked nurses why no water vapor to raise 0% humiidity of oxygen. "That is not done." I asked head of hospital, and he said the hoses between water vapor and oxygen were not compatible. I said "why dont you adapt them." He said, "oh." Then several days later a young doc was claiming credit for this breakthrough. It had been that way for a hundred years. thats medical innovation for ya.
Interested in any of this?
JBI'm sorry but I do not believe this to be entirely true. I mean yes, the medical framework as such limits ones' boundaries when it comes to scientific/technological innovation but that's why they have research. They are as a matter of fact, introducing research programs in quite a few medical residency programs now to better acquaint the residents with the scientific/technical side of medicine (so-called medical innovation.)

What you are right about is the fact that a majority of US med students have have huge debts to pay off and that really does have an impact on one's goals. But I DO NOT agree that an average modern US doctor is pessimistic or has no knowledge of scientific basis of medicine. And the risk part? well, you have to know that countries like US and Australia are highly litigous in nature (something you hardly see in Europe), especially when it comes to the healthcare field. Every doctor/surgeon is scared that what he/she does might result in a bad if not dreadful outcome in the end. This is precisely the reason why most docs in the US actually order far more diagnostic tests (to the extent of being superfluous) than those of other countries...but such are the circumstances. I would do the same if that's what keeps me from getting involved in a $500,000 law suit just coz I didn't order a person's x-ray or have a quick look through the person's electrolyte levels (even though it was a non-invasive procedure.)

Lastly, I've noticed how you constantly use the word "entrepreneurial" (to the extent of mentioning that you're an "entrepreneurial libertarian". I'm sorry to say, but Medicine (with the exception of the administrative side) doesn't have much to do with the entrepreneurial aspect. It's a healthcare field and a service-oriented field and the goal is to serve people...not to be rich and satisfy yourself. Law/Business would be a better bet if that's the case. Every doctor still does to some extent, have the need to help people (unless they've shifted into an entirely non-medical field) and they are morally accountable to the society (through the Hippocrates Oath that every med student takes as they matriculate.) If everything were to become so entrepreneurial, it would end up in nothing but a self-service industry with even more corrupt people (in an attempt to suck up to the more well-known so-called "entrepreneurs".)

Bottom line: this is not the field for that. Yes, you make a good deal of money and yes there's a high price to pay every minute of your work hours, but you do it at the end because of the satisfaction it gives you. Very few doctors actually end up making millions and even then, they're still service-oriented (you can watch tons and tons and tons of youtube videos that reiterate this point.) A neurosurgeon initially (as a resident) doesn't just choose a field coz it's well paid. They also have a passion for that subject...and then they undergo the rigors of competition and the never-ending brutal training. At the end, they don't make what a business man makes but what they're doing is a lot more noble and well worth living for. That my friend, can't solely be arrived at with an "entrepreneurial approach"!

medical inventor
04-16-2010, 01:10 PM
Shrey, thanks for the reply. To cut to the chase, I agree totally with you that the motive for medicine is service to people, but this often gets lost in ambition for career, with side benefit of looking good. But that aside, I don't have any argument with a humanitarian motive. It's HOW you get there that we differ on. Money should never be a primary motive for work, a sense of duty is much more powerful and a stronger, more effective way of personal motivation. Many people today are motivated by career because they have lost the higher truths of culture and spirituality in today's materialistic, over rationalistic environment. imo.
About HOW to get there, i.e. serve the people with medicine, you have two choices at best. One is to work within the system out of a sense of duty and service. This is the way of reform. The other is to be a revolutionary, to use non-violent means to change institutions by creating an alternative that replaces ("disrupts") what's there.
The problem with reform is that people get entrenched interests and don't want to change. Hospitals don't put in cooling procedures for heart attack patients (and many other things) because administrators don't want to stick their necks out and risk failure with something new. Conformity and cya are the watch words here. This is true in all institutions, not just medicine. So an individual doc, despite having high ideals, may be forced to practice medicine in a certain way and ignore innovations. In the meantime, he can try to get changes done within the system, which can sometimes work, but probably not on major items. This is a safer, saner way less demanding on the person, but you may have to compromise your principles.
The other way, the way of the revolutionary, requires a different personality. The situation here is a bit more complex, as many people in business are motivated by greed and power, which we have agreed are ineffective personal goals. But if you can maintain your values, and believe in the effectiveness of the approach, then it can be the way to effect change and help people much more effectively than working within existing institutions. For example, the Indian doctor I mentioned, Dr. S., does heart operations for poor people in India (poor by US standards) for around $3,000 as I recall. They have results as good as US operations costing much more. He innovated an insurance system for these people so they would not have to pay that amount all at once. His treatment of doctors is different from US hospitals: they work maybe twice as hard and get paid half as much, but $120,000 is still good in India. They are more strongly supervised and trained than US docs, who feel like they are an elite union, sometimes. Currently he is opening a hospital in the Caribbean to serve US clients by delivering safer operations with better outcomes.
Now consider a moment what he has done. He has helped millions of people in a way that the bureaucratic system could never do, by disrupting their model of how to run and deliver health care. This is entrepreneurial, in the sense that he innovated a new approach and made it pay. He is almost certainly wealthy from this activity, but is he just greedy? Or is he using the free market system to help people on a large scale?
This discussion echos the controversy between socialist economies, including government-run health care, and free market economies, with supplemental health insurance. As I state it, I can't agree with either side. You have uninsured people in the free market. But for the more humane solution, you may pay a terrible, terrible price by having central government take over much of the society. The socialist system of Russia and National socialism in Germany both promised universal health care. But systems in more benign regimes muddle through: Sweden, europe, cuba, india, Canada, etc.
However, often the political leaders (elites) of these socialist health systems, if they get sick, will fly to private enterprise clinics for treatment. Recently a leader of Canada flew to the U.S. for heart surgery, for example.
JB

shrey
04-16-2010, 03:01 PM
Yes, exactly! Now we're on the same page :). It's true as you said, it's how we get to the end-result/objective matters the most. And I do indeed believe making a drastic change would require some sort of a revolutionary approach (and perhaps in this aspect, entrepreneurial skills could help the most...like with the duo from Bostson Uni. I mentioned in my PM to you.)

I did look up this indian doctors you were talking about and kudos to this guy for being an all in one doc - an altruist, an innovator in his own way, an entrepreneur and a true humanitarian (I'm quite amazed at his patient work load per day.)

Unfortunately as you mentioned, the majority of docs don't really do anything about this because they're either shut up by their upper tier bosses or they lack the motivation as they realize nothing much can be done in a system so rigid (especially in the US) that is to a great extent influenced by politics and private insurance companies. And yes, many are scared to even speak out their opinion when it comes to innovation for their fear of being ridiculed. So yes, if entrepreneurs can actually pioneer medical innovation for the greater good (of helping people), then I definitely agree with you that that's perhaps one of the most effective approaches to changing the current health system.

medical inventor
04-16-2010, 03:38 PM
But we can't all be Bill Gates. :(

shrey
04-16-2010, 05:53 PM
Well no one said being a medical entrepreneur was easy lol. It sure requires lot of capital and most probably a partnership contract of some sort. On the contrary, I've read quite a few new budding entrepreneur physicians making quite radical changes...although I don't know if it's actually enough to change or convince the minds of medical legislators, insurance companies, hopsital CEOs, etc. etc.

medical inventor
04-16-2010, 11:25 PM
Well, starting companies is a subject taught in B-school, but many have been started by non-mba's. A business plan is usually de rigor for raising capital. There are technological funding fads. Nano tech has been big, but imo it's **.
Intel just spent a billion $ on telemedicine. They also rercently funded a 4 billion $ VC fund. I don't have a wealth of ideas about what the sweet spots are in medical innovation, but I know good and bad ideas when I see them, pretty well. I could imagine cloud computing to handle doctor's paper-work. (centralized computing over internet = cloud.) I wonder how Intel envisions using the telemedicine.
You can always start a fat-farm where obese clients are made to exercise. :D
The limits of the laws governing medicine are interesting. What happens if the doc is in the Caribbean, giving advice to a client over the internet in New York? I doubt whether the law covers this directly. I noticed that medicare in the US does not cover hearing aids, which cost about $5,000. They can't be that expensive to produce. A hearing aid cruise?
Obviously, the equation is that there are many older people with hearing loss who cannot afford to pay this. A bill-board with the doc doing goofy things to attract attention and sell h. aids cheaply?
JB

JakeTND
04-18-2010, 08:39 PM
Dear Firzen
Thanks for reply and I hope you did OK on test.
Say can you tell me how to get information about and apply to Charles?
I would appreciate that, and any way I can assist you, let me know.
I have spent time recently finding out about licensability from foreign medical schools. The future is very bright. I just read a Wall Street Journal article that the U.S. will need 150,000 additional docs within ten years. US med schools only graduate 15,000 per year, and practically none do primary care, so that leaves the img in a good spot, maybe.
Let me know about Charles, if you would.
John

MI-----that Harvard degree didn't teach you how to use Google?

Try this.

Bring up Google on your web browser. Got that part down?

Next...type in these words---Charles University Prague 1st Faculty

PRESTO!

You have the information at your fingertips.

Harvard didn't teach you that?

I am shocked...shocked I tell you.

medical inventor
04-19-2010, 12:34 PM
Hi Jake
Thanks for the link. Hey, if I shock you, check out that crew running the country! :)
But this brings up philosophical issues about knowledge. But before that, let me state that I enjoy being pompous on occasion and have considered buying a pipe as a prop, to pontificate upon weighty matters, preferably important areas I know nothing about. :) Seriously, I have to say many docs are sophisticated trained dogs, unable to think outside the box. (kennel?)
OK, here's my philosophy of knowledge.
-cultivate ignorance deliberately. As you study, you will find that there are many things neither the teacher nor you know or understand. Most times, the teacher will cover up his ignorance by just avoiding the subject, changing the subject, or focusing on known areas ad infinitum. But I urge you to cultivate areas of ignorance. Even if you can't formulate a theory, leave it as "an open question." The proper spirit to approach this is the mystery and wonder of a starry sky. I'll give an example later.
-I submit there are two types of people: The "know somethings" who draw the wagon around their knowledge and don't like to admit they don't know something. If confronted with an experience that they cannot understand, they don't know what to do with it. There are many in academia. The other type are the "know nothings." Much rarer, they live in the open question. Unfortunately, the academic training tends not to cultivate or teach this state of mind.
Perhaps the limits of knowledge happen often to the doc, as patients have complaints that are vague and you can't do a diagnosis. Perhaps a more open approach would help.
I could elaborate, but what I am primarily interested in is the challenge for the img to practice medicine. The reason is it coincides with being an inventor in the medical area. I will post more on that subject which will look at "business strategies" to start a practice or clinic, for the img. I have been thinking of some strategies to build a profitable clinic. And in fact, the img may have little choice, because of demographic changes, namely the amg's are going into salaried positions at hospitals....more later.
Hey, do you think a briar pipe or a usual academic-looking burl would be better?

shrey
04-19-2010, 07:18 PM
I think most IMGs only dream of getting into private practice a lot later in their lives. It's not possible to directly enter a private practice (unless it's a family affair). So most of them don't have a choice in this regard.

If you don't mind me asking, do you plan to study medicine?

JakeTND
04-19-2010, 07:37 PM
Hi Jake
Thanks for the link. Hey, if I shock you, check out that crew running the country! :)
But this brings up philosophical issues about knowledge. But before that, let me state that I enjoy being pompous on occasion and have considered buying a pipe as a prop, to pontificate upon weighty matters, preferably important areas I know nothing about. :) Seriously, I have to say many docs are sophisticated trained dogs, unable to think outside the box. (kennel?)
OK, here's my philosophy of knowledge.
-cultivate ignorance deliberately. As you study, you will find that there are many things neither the teacher nor you know or understand. Most times, the teacher will cover up his ignorance by just avoiding the subject, changing the subject, or focusing on known areas ad infinitum. But I urge you to cultivate areas of ignorance. Even if you can't formulate a theory, leave it as "an open question." The proper spirit to approach this is the mystery and wonder of a starry sky. I'll give an example later.
-I submit there are two types of people: The "know somethings" who draw the wagon around their knowledge and don't like to admit they don't know something. If confronted with an experience that they cannot understand, they don't know what to do with it. There are many in academia. The other type are the "know nothings." Much rarer, they live in the open question. Unfortunately, the academic training tends not to cultivate or teach this state of mind.
Perhaps the limits of knowledge happen often to the doc, as patients have complaints that are vague and you can't do a diagnosis. Perhaps a more open approach would help.
I could elaborate, but what I am primarily interested in is the challenge for the img to practice medicine. The reason is it coincides with being an inventor in the medical area. I will post more on that subject which will look at "business strategies" to start a practice or clinic, for the img. I have been thinking of some strategies to build a profitable clinic. And in fact, the img may have little choice, because of demographic changes, namely the amg's are going into salaried positions at hospitals....more later.
Hey, do you think a briar pipe or a usual academic-looking burl would be better?

Did I miss out on getting a decoder ring to be able to read this post?

Seriously.

MI---read your post. Do you think it makes any sense yourself? Do you think it is well written?

Or is just a stream of thought with no rhyme or reason?

What point were you trying to make?

Clearly---you think you have an idea of what physicians are, or pretend to be---but to that end---what is your point?

Docs are trained dogs? Okay...and?

And now---it seems that you have been able to "invent" a business model that would allow IMGs to practice independently and run profitable clinics.....but why would such a model be limited to IMGs?

I would love to see you post again---when you are less high/less drunk and have more clarity of mind.

Because----I am convinced---while I think you are full of crap----I do find you very very entertaining---kind of like those loonies who I see in the subway yelling about the coming of the end of world...

shrey
04-19-2010, 08:35 PM
HAHAHHA. Speechless. But yes, I do agree that the post was hard to comprehend.

nidlewrock
04-25-2010, 10:59 AM
hey ppl good luck with your entrance exams and congrats to the ppl hu ave alredy got a place :) im in my first year at lf1 studyin medicine of course im on a gap year from the end of the winter semester (feb) and will probably be joining some of you's in the summer semester 2011 :) if any of you want to know anything id be pleased to help :) pm med or nidlewrock @ hotmail .co.uk

spitfiremk1a
05-04-2010, 08:50 PM
Hey everyone,

I'm also planning on a September 2010 start at the first faculty or the second faculty. I'm curious if anyone can tell me what the specific schedule is for either school for the first year winter semester? I've already started getting books, and plan on studying a little this summer.

I also have some questions about things like how much is everyone spending on utilities, cell phone, internet, etc...

Will the apartment rentals be considerably cheaper "by owner" compared to real estate listings from brokers on websites like expats.cz ??? Is there something comparable to a multiple listing service for real estate in Prague?

Thanks,

spitfiremk1a

shrey
05-05-2010, 01:59 AM
Check out the following link: Schedules for branches General Medicine and Dentistry in Academic Year 2009_2010 - 1st Faculty of Medicine (http://www.lf1.cuni.cz/en/schedules-for-branches-general-medicine-and-dentistry-in-academic-year-20092010?f=for-students) (it's the last one.)

Just have a good time this summer, before you start classes so that you'll feel more up to studying. You might get burned out if you start studying early.

Regarding utilities (ie. apartment + utilities, food etc), it depends. Ranges anywhere from 500 - 600 + EUR per month.

Cell phone - if you get the Vodafone pre-paid service, you can either get the 200 Kc or the 500 Kc top up.

Internet - If you're living in a dorm, then internet is free. But if you'll be living in an apartment, then it can vary (from 850-1000 Kc depending on the service.)

Yes apartment rentals by ownder will definitely be cheaper. If you book through an agency, they charge you a commission (which is usually the first month's rent.) The best place to start of looking for apartment rentals (sharing) is:

Prague Classifieds: Flat share - Czech Republic (http://www.expats.cz/prague/f-11.html)

You might want to consider sharing the apartment with someone for the first few months until you get used to the whole thing.

spitfiremk1a
05-19-2010, 10:27 PM
Shrey, you are really helpful. I've read all the posts from you that I can find.

How receptive are some of the faculty members to shadowing? Is it difficult to establish a relationship with them? I understand it depends on the person... but I'm just not sure what the culture in Europe would be like. I would be a lowly MS1 trying to scrub in and get involved with patients. In my past, as a pre-med, I was given some incredible opportunities. I'm curious if that will be the case in Praha. How much time is spent on clinical stuff the first three years, if at all?

shrey
05-20-2010, 03:24 AM
I don't think they would mind at all. You just have to ask. You would however, have a problem with the language (but again, if you can find a member of the faculty and not the hospital, you should be fine.) If you're interested in doing research, just get in touch with them and they'll be more than happy to involve you in their ongoing projects. The opportunities are there, but you have to take the initiative to make the most of them.

The first 2 years is mostly pre-clinical except for a nursing skills that you do in the hospital. The 3rd year is more like a transitional year in that it's partly clinical and partly pre-clinical. You have courses like Propadeutics in Internal Medicine and Propadeutics in Surgery which take place in the hospital, and you get to perform a few basic physical examination maneuvers. In the latter course, it's mostly observing cases, except for a brief period where you'll be suturing on orange/pig/boar skins. That's about it really. The first 2 years are not as interesting as the 3rd year but are a lot easier (actually each year just gets harder. 2nd year 5x harder than 1 year; 3rd year 15x harder than the 2nd year etc.)

Once you enter the 4th year, you'll most have clinical subjects (with the exception of Immunology, Pharmacology, and Psychology/Psychotherapy.)

European culture is just different period. It takes a long time to get to know people on a personal level and they're don't appear as friendly as the strangers do in the US/Canada, but they're definitely helpful when you ask them something (and if you ask in Czech, they'll be happy to help you.) But it would still be considered odd to strike up a conversation with a random stranger (I think this is universal.) You will get used to being very independent and reserved by the end of your stay here (and possibly also a bit pessimistic/depressed as these attributes just seem to flow naturally in the Czech air - perhaps due to the long, cold, dreary winters?) So I don't know if that's good or bad. The profs. are usually helpful but ONLY if you ask them for help (through consultations.) Unlike in the US/Canada, they don't care if you pass or fail. Their job is to teach and that's all they do. If you ask them for advice, you should expect nothing more than a "but you're a medical student, you need to know everything" or "you're going to be a doctor, you should find out a way how to study this subject by yourself. I can't really help you with that, sorry."

p.s. Why Charles University? Since you're a pre-med, have you considered applying to an American school? If you had low MCAT scores perhaps you should try again? Or look in other countries like Ireland/UK/Australia/Caribbean/Israel as they're more American-friendly (ie. they do a better job at preparing you for the USMLEs than Charles would.)







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