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ranjit
06-02-2004, 08:10 PM
does anyone know what's the deal with st. chris and ny approval? how far are they along in the process? also what's going on with jersey, are those people matched for residencies this year going to be able to get licensed?

thanks in advance.

FLK
06-02-2004, 09:10 PM
jersey's apparently in the bag

janet
06-07-2004, 04:38 AM
can u confirm that?

MrE
06-07-2004, 06:52 AM
Jersey's APPARENTLY in the bag?

How about some facts like Jersey IS in the bag and how about it from BTS so that mis-information can't be blamed on people who don't offically represent St.Christopher's.

I think the college would know if it's a definate thing or still going through the process, and if it is going through the process then it's not a definate thing.

Surely the college can give us a yes or no answer in regard to THIS question.

bts4202
06-07-2004, 07:59 AM
Yes, I made a mistake, my freaking G-d people, get over it. I have apologized as much as I can. :roll: :roll:

TaxiDriver
06-07-2004, 10:54 AM
Besides Monotheism, Code of Law, Philosophy, Mathematics, Literacy, Electricity, Chemistry, Physics, Modern Medicine, Sanitation, Transportation, Electronics, Computers, Aviation and Space travel.....What has Western Civilization ever done for the world?

Who cares about monotheism? The other ones on the list are relevant.

MrE
06-07-2004, 11:28 AM
what's your past mistake got to do with this new claim?

Someones now made a new claim that NJ is possibly in the bag.

Is that true or not?

Nebakanezer
06-07-2004, 11:33 AM
what's your past mistake got to do with this new claim?

Someones now made a new claim that NJ is possibly in the bag.

Is that true or not?

I think FLK was being facetious... :roll:

AUCMD2006
06-07-2004, 02:24 PM
sarcasm is wasted if you don't put a warning on it..apparently i'm one of the few fellow sarcasm artists who gets you man....

FLK
06-07-2004, 06:37 PM
I'm totally serious.

Jersey's definately "in the bag"

http://www.tetrasoc.com/products/bodybags/body_bags.html

bts4202
06-07-2004, 07:18 PM
I'm totally serious.

Jersey's definately "in the bag"

http://www.tetrasoc.com/products/bodybags/body_bags.html

You will definately need a lot of those after this young lady's jihad:

picture not working by link, oh well, it was a barbie in a suicide bomber jacket. pretty funny.

TaxiDriver
06-07-2004, 07:20 PM
well, you didn't even post the picture correctly. but everyone can take the link

http://www.heaven666.org/images/suicide%20barbie.jpg

that is an offensive picture!!!! you should report yourself and slap a warning on ya.

FLK
06-07-2004, 07:21 PM
how are your wrist flexors?

now I know how you spend your time when not on valuemd :lol:

bts4202
06-07-2004, 07:26 PM
how are your wrist flexors?

now I know how you spend your time when not on valuemd :lol:

Haha, yeah, i remember those days. Lets see, what was the appropriate comeback in those days:

"I am rubber, your glue, somthing somthing.." :roll:

TaxiDriver
06-07-2004, 11:06 PM
http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/500/1989hijackedthread1.jpg

janet
06-08-2004, 02:11 AM
no one answered my question about jersey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!so ill ask again......is Jersey in the bag or NOT?

Nebakanezer
06-08-2004, 06:57 AM
no one answered my question about jersey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!so ill ask again......is Jersey in the bag or NOT?

Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200... :roll:

dt
06-08-2004, 08:52 AM
no one answered my question about jersey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!so ill ask again......is Jersey in the bag or NOT?

No.

FrenchFrie
06-15-2004, 06:58 AM
no

pamu30
06-15-2004, 08:41 AM
Well NJ hasn't set up the committee on evaluation of the foreign schools yet. It's almost a year now. we still have to wait for an answer regarding this. :?

Picard
06-15-2004, 04:23 PM
Doesn't matter if they set up the committee or not. The way the bill (now law) is written, SC does not qualify as an "alternatively accredited medical school" (foreign schools) addressed by this law anyways. So, even if the committee is seated, it will have no impact on SC's ability to do anything in NJ. This new law does not apply to SC.

Here's S919, the bill (now law) that SC has been talking about, the one that NJ senators supposedly written for SC, and the one that is supposedly waiting for the appointment of committee:


e. As used in this act, "alternatively accredited medical school" means a medical school located outside the United States: (1) in a country that applies accreditation standards that have been determined by the National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation within the United States Department of Education to be comparable to the accreditation standards applied to medical schools located within the United States; (2) that continues to meet the accreditation standards of that country; and (3) has medical school students participating in a clinical clerkship program in New Jersey prior to the effective date of this act, or is approved by the Advisory Graduate Medical Education Council of New Jersey pursuant to section 4 of this act to operate a clinical clerkship program in this State.


P

TurnThePage
06-15-2004, 09:25 PM
Doesn't matter if they set up the committee or not. The way the bill (now law) is written, SC does not qualify as an "alternatively accredited medical school" (foreign schools) addressed by this law anyways. So, even if the committee is seated, it will have no impact on SC's ability to do anything in NJ. This new law does not apply to SC.

Here's S919, the bill (now law) that SC has been talking about, the one that NJ senators supposedly written for SC, and the one that is supposedly waiting for the appointment of committee:


e. As used in this act, "alternatively accredited medical school" means a medical school located outside the United States: (1) in a country that applies accreditation standards that have been determined by the National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation within the United States Department of Education to be comparable to the accreditation standards applied to medical schools located within the United States; (2) that continues to meet the accreditation standards of that country; and (3) has medical school students participating in a clinical clerkship program in New Jersey prior to the effective date of this act, or is approved by the Advisory Graduate Medical Education Council of New Jersey pursuant to section 4 of this act to operate a clinical clerkship program in this State.


P

Of course, Picard is correct. The list of "alternatively accredited medical schools", as defined by NJ law, is set forth here:

http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/ncfmea.html#decisions

Senegal (St. Chris's country of charter) has NOT been deemed by National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation of the United States Department of Education to apply accreditation standards comparable to the accreditation standards applied to medical schools located within the United States. Accordingly, as Picard noted, even if the committee is seated, St. Chris cannot and will not be approved in NJ (as the law currently stands).

On the other hand, med schools that ARE deemed by the State of NJ (and the U.S. DOE) to be "alternatively accredited medical schools" include SGU, Ross, AUC, SMU and Saba.

banta
06-22-2004, 05:01 AM
The committee set up for alt. accred. med. schools is ONLY with reference to this particular bill that provides a formal approval process for "newer schools" (who were not grandfathered in).... to be able to provide ROTATIONS during 3rd and 4th yr......NOT for licensure..... Read the bill and law!.... Call the NJ State Medical Board......I have.....ask to speak with a Mr. Roeder.....good guy.....very informative on licensure process.....People....bottom line,...It's not black and white!.....shades of grey EXIST!.....YES, even in CALIFORNIA.....however, they rarely fess up to it.....I digress, that's another story.....overall...let's all simmer down now & "cool out" with the harshness and rock launching......tough crowd out there.....Captain Picard....you're my favorite ;) .........NeilC ....second runner-up.

Azskept.....seriously,.....when do you find the time to find all of these articles...very impressive!......and which search engine do you use?.....also, would it be possible to see your presentation from the DC convention...either on-line or via e-mail?....you are always very informative. Many Thanks :)

Stay Hard folks........Suzy B. ;)

azskeptic
06-22-2004, 08:17 AM
http://www.google.com/newsalerts?hl=en

banta
06-22-2004, 09:01 PM
Thanks for the link Az! Very impressive. ;)
Suzy B. :)

Picard
06-23-2004, 12:52 AM
Well, I for one am sick and tired of talking about NJ. Having lived there during my 3rd year medical school, I have to say that it's one of my least favorite states in the union. Heck, NJ state troopers even dress like Nazi stormtroopers. It's so backwards that it adds stiff penalties for hollowpoint bullets claiming it's more dangerous -- never mind that countless police shootings have demonstated that full metal jacket bullets are much more dangerous to innocent bystanders because they tend to overpenetrate and often exit the body of intended target and hit innocent bystanders. Even NYPD realized that. What does this have to do with medicine? Nothing. I'm just ranting about this state...

Anyways, SC pointed out this bill. I pointed out in the past that it doesn't address licensure, only clinical rotations. And that SC does not fit the definition of "alternatively accredited medical school" in this bill. That's all. And that NJ laws seem to have a problem with SC's charter/physical location when it comes to licensure. If SC is eventually approved by NJ -- great... have fun in the Occupied Territory of NJ.

OK, it's pass my bed time now...

P

poppy
06-23-2004, 01:51 PM
picard, i like your posts but why you gotta knock jersey?

i think the st chris kids are obsessed with the (great) state of new jersey because there's probably a whole lot of them from NJ in that "program" and they also realize that jersey has tended to be pretty IMG friendly in the past. if they're looking to get fully licensed here they could be in for a rough ride 'cause from now on st chris is gonna be known as the shady med school that tried to affiliate itself with one of this state's not very well respected colleges. it all (still) comes down to the charter issue, and no matter what any st chris student tells you, it won't be easy to get past the fact that you all will never have stepped foot in the country from which you will have received a medical degree. if, and by this i actually mean when, NJ oficially denies full licensure to st chris graduates the whole school is gonna suffer 'cause the more IMG cautious states won't even bother with graduates that the IMG liberal states won't touch. add to this the everlasting notoreity that st chris has already managed to acheive through the press (from more than one state). so to answer the original question of the post: it ain't looking good.

but wait, it now seems that you can all move to florida and become fully licensed physicians there ready to answer the call of old retired people up and down that state. unless, however, st chris follows in the footsteps of the notorious school that it most resembles: grace. if this should happen (and of course all the st chris students will post here and tell you how it just couldn't possibly happen) then all of your licences will be worth about as much as that stuff on a roll next to your toilet. for advice on what to do in this situation please contact a grace graduate. where to look you ask? first try your local fast-food chain (ask for the guy standing in front of a large vat of oil ready to drop frozen potatoes into it) or better yet call st christopher's college of medicine and simply ask to speak to their president!

bts4202
06-23-2004, 02:07 PM
Hmmm,

poppy = joined today, only one post just to talk trash about st chris and insinuate things about our president.

Can you spell A-G-E-N-D-A

poppy
06-23-2004, 03:11 PM
wow...great response to my post. letting everyone know when i joined and how many posts i have really helped to clear up the whole NJ/NY licencesure issue.

my A-G-E-N-D-A is simple, to try and answer the question posed in the original post. yours appears to be to deflect attention from the issues facing your school by instead focusing on irrelevent things such as how long someone has been a member of this board or how many posts they have. if i had supported your position and said everything will eventually be fine in NY/NJ would it have mattered to you when i joined or how many previous posts i have? no, it wouldn't have mattered and you certainly would not have devoted a response to pointing those things out....it's only an agenda if you don't agree with it.

also, i haven't insinuated anything about your president. dr ***** did get his medical degree from grace (which also had charter issues) and that program was shut down leaving many of its graduates unable to practice in the united states. if i'm wrong about this then by all means please correct me, but please do it based upon what i have said that is incorrect and not base your argument against me on how long i've been here or the number of my posts.

i did not mean to offend you with my original post (my apologies if i did) and i am more than willing to engage in a real discussion regarding this issue.

poppy
06-24-2004, 08:56 AM
no response bts4202? i'd definitely like to hear about what it's like to know that your president comes from one of the most legendarily infamous (and certainly one of the most catastrophic of failures) of an off-shore medical program?

you may also want to address the topic of the original post and tell us exactly how st chris plans to get around very specific laws that basically eliminate your graduates from obtaining licensure in a number of states including NJ? also, how does it plan on removing the image that it has gained in this state through the media as a less than honest medical school prone to shady deals and a strange situation in respect to its charter and country of operation?

but hey, maybe all will work out just dandy 'cause i'm sure residency directors and state board officials don't actually read newspapers or discuss such things amongst themselves.....see nothing to worry about!

RajPatel
06-24-2004, 12:33 PM
poppy, attempting to shine a light on these dark issues will be futile here. you see, some dude named max, an sc grad, has been licensed somewhere! therefore, all these pesky little issues of charter, accreditation, departing faculty, lack of classes and/or space, negative newspaper articles, are all just little straw men set up to prevent us from seeing the greatness of this school.

if the prez of this operation really did receive his degree from grace (whose short existence was one of the least graceful stories in the history of caribbean medical education), it would be the most unsurprising thing i can think of.

bts4202
06-24-2004, 05:03 PM
Just because an unsubstantiated rumour is repeated over and over again, does not make it true.

AUCMD2006
06-24-2004, 06:26 PM
"Just because an unsubstantiated rumour is repeated over and over again, does not make it true"


just like new jersey in the "bag" huh?


hehe had to put in the weekly quota of reminding you dana...

bts4202
06-24-2004, 08:08 PM
"Just because an unsubstantiated rumour is repeated over and over again, does not make it true"


just like new jersey in the "bag" huh?


hehe had to put in the weekly quota of reminding you dana...

Haha, I am used to it by now. I am never gonna live that one down huh? :wink: . You would think after 25 years of having a big mouth I would learn to keep it under control..lol :lol:

teratos
06-25-2004, 05:18 AM
Haha, I am used to it by now. I am never gonna live that one down huh? :wink: . You would think after 25 years of having a big mouth I would learn to keep it under control..lol :lol:

No, I'm 33 and haven't figured it out yet..... :shock:

poppy
06-25-2004, 08:57 AM
just out of curiosity, which part exactly is the unsubstantiated rumor that bts4202 is so reluctant to actually comment on with a specific response?

--is it the whole charter/country of operation thing? (which even the most optimistically brainwashed st chris student now has to admit is causing some issues in respect to the attention being paid to this program)

--or is it the fact that ***** received his medical degreee from grace? (a program whose collapse has left most, if not all, of its graduates unable to practice medicine in the U.S. and which ***** appears to have used as the model by which to ressurrect st christophers college of medicine)

azskeptic
06-25-2004, 09:29 AM
just out of curiosity, which part exactly is the unsubstantiated rumor that bts4202 is so reluctant to actually comment on with a specific response?

--is it the whole charter/country of operation thing? (which even the most optimistically brainwashed st chris student now has to admit is causing some issues in respect to the attention being paid to this program)

--or is it the fact that ***** received his medical degreee from grace? (a program whose collapse has left most, if not all, of its graduates unable to practice medicine in the U.S. and whice ***** appears to have used as the model by which to ressurrect st christophers college of medicine)

rumor=bad news

FLK
06-25-2004, 04:28 PM
poppy, attempting to shine a light on these dark issues will be futile here. you see, some dude named max, an sc grad, has been licensed somewhere! therefore, all these pesky little issues of charter, accreditation, departing faculty, lack of classes and/or space, negative newspaper articles, are all just little straw men set up to prevent us from seeing the greatness of this school.

if the prez of this operation really did receive his degree from grace (whose short existence was one of the least graceful stories in the history of caribbean medical education), it would be the most unsurprising thing i can think of.

can you tell me which state gave "max" an unrestricted license to practice medicine. ( not an in-training license for a surgery residency )

also, which school did he attend before he transferred into clinicals at St Chris, since it's impossible for him to have started basic science there

far as I know there is only one state where you ( as an IMG ) can get a fully unrestricted license to practice medicine, AFTER only 1 year of postgraduate training. most states require 2 or 3 years of residency.

so therefore let's see...4 yrs of school, and at least 2 years of post grad training ( which would actually be 3 years since the current year is just finishing ) he would have had to begin at SC 7 years ago in order to qualify for a fully unrestricted license to practice medicine.

has SC been operating for 7 years?

so then if "no" then this person transferred in, and did basic science some place else, in perhaps the country of charter, which makes the whole scenario irrelevent to this discussion of SC and licensure

RajPatel
06-25-2004, 05:30 PM
supposedly it's florida

bts4202
06-25-2004, 06:02 PM
rumor=bad news

Very true, better to stick with facts

FLK
06-25-2004, 06:47 PM
supposedly it's florida

I used the guy's name as it's published on mdparadise

"Max *********" ( it's already on this forum, so I am not saying anything new here and violating privacy by mentioning his name in this post)

anyway I plugged it into the AMA doctor finder http://dbapps.ama-assn.org/aps/amahg.htm

anybody can do this. I suggest people give it a try

anyhoo, I looked for the guy in every state in America. I got no hits. I even put in oles....and did a "sounds like search'.........nada
Just to see if it didn't include residents, I looked up about 2 dozen residents from the OBGYN and FP residency at my base hospital----found them all using only their last names.
Even the interns were in there !

Max's name must be spelled incorrectly, since if he's in the USA, and a doc, we can find him.....especially if he has a state medical license

anybody want to find this guy and post the link for the correct name spelling so I can look him up on AMA doc finder.

PS: I even found "Teratos" on there ( and myself too, as well as about 20 people I went to medical school with, and lost contact years ago )
basically everybody is on this website


I looked up teh residents on the official school, and MD paradise website I really couldn't find any that had their medical school as St Chris AND ........the alumni doing his psychiatry residency at Virginia Commonwealth lists his medical school of graduation in BANGLADESH :shock: !!!!!

......interesting

teratos
06-25-2004, 11:42 PM
PS: I even found "Teratos" on there

Whew.....G

anencephalic
06-26-2004, 05:18 AM
I looked up teh residents on the official school, and MD paradise website I really couldn't find any that had their medical school as St Chris AND ........the alumni doing his psychiatry residency at Virginia Commonwealth lists his medical school of graduation in BANGLADESH :shock: !!!!!

......interesting

Ah, the plot thickens! :twisted:

Aloha,

mua_bound
06-26-2004, 05:56 AM
[, I looked up about 2 dozen residents from the OBGYN and FP residency at my base hospital----found them all using only their last names.
Even the interns were in there !



I went to the websit and it says only licensed docs are included, not residents. I tried the names on the mua alumni and there all residents and none of there names came up.
I think u have to be licensed right?

teratos
06-26-2004, 09:00 AM
I went to the websit and it says only licensed docs are included, not residents. I tried the names on the mua alumni and there all residents and none of there names came up.
I think u have to be licensed right?

Correct, residents do not show up. Since Max has an unrestricricted license he should show up.

I think Max is the most searched person on Google after Cindy Margolis and Pam Anderson. G

bts4202
06-26-2004, 09:27 AM
I went to the websit and it says only licensed docs are included, not residents. I tried the names on the mua alumni and there all residents and none of there names came up.
I think u have to be licensed right?

Correct, residents do not show up. Since Max has an unrestricricted license he should show up.


If the rumour is true, I still do not have confirmation yet. When i do, i will post it.


I looked up teh residents on the official school, and MD paradise website I really couldn't find any that had their medical school as St Chris

I looked them up too, and none of them are on there, so it is pretty hard to see if they listed st chris as their school. They are not on there because they are not licensed yet. When they are, I am sure there name will be on there along with everyone elses.


the alumni doing his psychiatry residency at Virginia Commonwealth lists his medical school of graduation in BANGLADESH

Thats true, but who is to say the AMA didn't make a mistake? The person is not an AMA member so they do not have a lot of info on him. If the student transfered from bangledesh after the basic sciences it would not be surprising if the AMA got confused. I will try and contact the graduate so he can get the error fixed as soon as possible.

poppy
06-26-2004, 10:42 AM
Thats true, but who is to say the AMA didn't make a mistake? The person is not an AMA member so they do not have a lot of info on him. If the student transfered from bangledesh after the basic sciences it would not be surprising if the AMA got confused. I will try and contact the graduate so he can get the error fixed as soon as possible.

umm right...so now the AMA made the error? the high-level conspiracy against st chris grows ever deeper!!.... anyway, i've just looked up every single physician i could possibly think of and the information was completely accurate for each and every one. oh yeah, most weren't AMA members, but i guess in their cases the AMA decided to take the high road and not screw up their details as some bizarre form of retribution for them not having joined.

still waiting for confirmation from bts4202 whether the president of st chris is a grace graduate? as far as i am aware, ***** did, in fact, graduate from grace and subsequently has very little, if any, postgraduate qualification and is not a licenced physician anywhere in the united states. (not hard to believe since grace had the same charter/country of operation issues that not surprizingly plaque st chris now) if my original statement of this was "unsubstantiated" as you claimed, then i am awaiting a rebuttal.

Darlyn3
06-26-2004, 11:22 AM
Dana, don't waste your time answering to this person (poppy). Just let him run his mouth. You don't have to prove anything to him.

P.S. Poppy, do me a favor, don't reply with something stupid, I've said nothing to offend you in any way, so let's keep it like this. Thanks

Take Care,

Darlyn

Picard
06-26-2004, 01:12 PM
Can't common specifically about Florida as I don't have a FL medical license and haven't kept in touch with classmates who went to Florida.

However, every state I know post their licensee's on their website as soon as it's approved, often within days. My name appeared on California's site the day it was approved, weeks before I received my paper license. In fact, I found out my license was approved by checking the website daily after paying the final fee. They update their sites very frequently because more important folks (like local pharmacist processing prescriptions) need updated doctor's list to process prescriptions.

As for AMA's doc-finder -- they list licensed physicians across the country. My name showed up soon after my California license was issued. You don't have to be an AMA member to be listed. And, they obtain information on doctor's medical school directly from licensing boards, including how the school name is spelled and sequenced (ie USC school of medicine or Keck's school of medicine -- depending on how it's listed under the state boards.) So, if someone is licensed, they will appear on AMA site.

P

FLK
06-26-2004, 01:27 PM
[, I looked up about 2 dozen residents from the OBGYN and FP residency at my base hospital----found them all using only their last names.
Even the interns were in there !



I went to the websit and it says only licensed docs are included, not residents. I tried the names on the mua alumni and there all residents and none of there names came up.
I think u have to be licensed right?

that's what I would have thought.
I looked up 5 or 6 PGY-1 docs in OBGYN and FP, that are at my hospital.
They showed up, as did their medical school.
Strange, but true

gotta love the doctor finder.
I never notified them when I moved, but my information was automatically updated.
I still have my old address on my driver's license, but my profile on the AMA doc finder is current ! ( which seems like a miracle considering they supposedly confused Bangladesh for Senegal in that poor SC grad :lol: )

The conspiracy throry of the AMA reminds me of the OJ simpson murder trial....the Entire LAPD framed him, even before they knew he could possibly be a suspect !

Picard
06-26-2004, 01:55 PM
I believe AMA lists its resident members from some states.

P

FLK
06-26-2004, 02:03 PM
that must be it.

still, if a guy had a Florida license, I guess he'd show up too no matter where he was :wink:

teratos
06-26-2004, 04:42 PM
The PGY-3's and above may have an unrestricted license so they can moonlight..... G

poppy
06-26-2004, 08:41 PM
Dana, don't waste your time answering to this person (poppy). Just let him run his mouth. You don't have to prove anything to him.

P.S. Poppy, do me a favor, don't reply with something stupid, I've said nothing to offend you in any way, so let's keep it like this. Thanks



hey darilyn,

thanks for the advice but i'm perfectly capable of choosing to how and when i'll respond to posts without your help. you certainly haven't said anything to offend me (well except for calling me a guy :?), however, it was i that was accused of making unsubstantiated claims by bts4202. you're absolutely right, bts4202 has nothing to prove to me or anyone else, but if bts4202 is going to accuse me of propagating false information he/she should be willing to correct those statements i've made that are inaccurate.

thanks,

poppy

bts4202
06-26-2004, 08:57 PM
Actually, since you are the one making the accusations, it really should be you who provides the proof of such allegations. Otherwise, it is merely unsubstantiated gossip ( go look the word up). :wink:

microphage
06-26-2004, 09:20 PM
Actually, since you are the one making the accusations, it really should be you who provides the proof of such allegations. Otherwise, it is merely unsubstantiated gossip ( go look the word up). :wink:

But it's so much more fun the other way around :wink:

neilc
06-26-2004, 10:08 PM
so, where did dr. ***** graduate from? it seems a simple question...i can tell you where most of my profs studied, and the deans as well...i have heard the grace "rumor" too...although i agree that an med school admin doesn't need to be a physician to run the business, i would be very, very, veeeeeeeeeeeery careful about deciding to attend a school run by a fellow whose medical education came from the grace model.

FLK
06-26-2004, 10:31 PM
so, where did dr. ***** graduate from? it seems a simple question...i can tell you where most of my profs studied, and the deans as well...i have heard the grace "rumor" too...although i agree that an med school admin doesn't need to be a physician to run the business, i would be very, very, veeeeeeeeeeeery careful about deciding to attend a school run by a fellow whose medical education came from the grace model.

so he must have trained some place
http://www.valuemd.com/viewtopic.php?t=3979


bts4202


Ultimate Moderator




Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 2227
Location: St. Christopher's College of Medicine

Post subject: reply Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:06 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Mohite is a nuerosurgeon from India and has been teaching for many many years.

Dr. Cherian is a physciatrist from chigago, has taught in several US schools and used to be the Dean at Ross Univ.

Dr. ***** keeps his personal information private. Since he doesn't teach anything, no one asks. However, that does lead people to create a lot of rumors.
My girlfriend made the mistake of calling him a buissnessman one night when he took us out for a beer. He prooved that he knew his stuff by humiliating us for 3 hours with non-stop oral quizing. It was all in good fun, I mean we were out drinking with him, so it was kind of like nerdy medical bravado. But still, we realized that day dr ***** knows his medicine

any student that just took step 2 can humiliate a bunch of MS1's for 3 hours, just as I am sure any of you MS1's could pimp any MD for 3 hrs on gross anatomy

poppy
06-26-2004, 11:06 PM
ok i'll play along. about four years ago i heard about st christopher's college of medicine from a friend who was researching off-shore medical programs for himself. as i was looking into carribean schools i decided to call up and find out more about this program. if my memory serves me correctly, i believe the office i called was then in florida and they were very pleasant to speak to. the only problem, however, was that they only seemed to know basic facts about how the school was structured academically and not much about the process of how to make it back successfully into this country. at the time i was told that students split time between luton and then cambridge in england before doing all clinicals in the US. when i asked to speak to someone higher up who could answer my more specific questions i was given the run-around. after repeated calls i was finally told that someone who could answer my questions was now back in the country and would call me. i then received a phone call from a dr. ***** who had a very strong accent (i think it was from boston, but i'm not good with accents so can't be positive about this, just that it was very pronouced). this guy was a smooth operator who was telling me everything i wanted to hear. he told me about the school's very high USMLE pass rates and assured me from his own experiences as a doctor that getting a residency would not be a problem at all. impressed with where he said he had managed to practice i asked where he had attended medical school and expected to hear that he was a US or carribean grad. instead he said he went to grace. i'm not stating this as proof, rather as the basis on which i made the statements you claim to be unsubstantiated. now if he was willing to tell someone who didn't even apply to his program where he graduated from, i'm willing to bet that the students at st chris are fully aware that dr ***** did attend grace.

based on that conversation and a gut feeling that something was a bit weird about this program, i decided against applying and didn't hear much else about st chris until i picked up a local newspaper and read an article about some shady deal an off-shore medical school from senegal that operated in england was trying to make with a NJ college. four years on and i'm sooooo glad i went with my instincts and stayed at home to do a masters instead of jumping headfirst into a pool that may or may not hold any water.

i find it curious that in all the responses to this subject none of the st chris students have actually refuted that ***** graduated from grace. instead they have deflected attention from the statement by either stating that they "have nothing to prove" or that i should provide proof. well ok, i've explained how i know ***** was involved with grace so now hopefully they can confirm or refute my statement or better yet show us that ***** is a licenced physician by showing us his state or AMA listing and providing us with the link.

poppy
06-27-2004, 12:11 AM
just as a side thought, writing all that out in my previous post reminds me of how events that seem so innocuous at the time can actually turn out to have a major impact on the direction of one's life.

prior to my phone conversation with ***** i was somewhat cautiously considering studying at st chris. as it happened, however, at around the same time the company i had worked part-time for all through college was publicly chastised for not promoting enough women. suddenly, but not surprisingly, i was being offered full-time employment and full tuition payment if i stayed on at work and studied for a masters degree. given the opportunity to make enough money to cover a large part of my medical training (and therefore reduce my eventual debt) i decided against applying to any med schools at that time. itís funny though that if it wasn't for corporate chauvinism and a strange feeling from a phone conversation i could be on the other side of this discussion defending st chris and trying hard to believe that i hadn't made a big mistake. but then who's to say what would have happened.Ö..i was leaning towards the caribbean anyway. :wink:

FLK
06-27-2004, 03:44 AM
from a place that makes a formal announcement of any residency match, any new library book purchase, or any sunny day in Luton, I will guess if the fellow in question was actually a real doctor ( and by real, I mean somebody who has done a residency and is board certified....or at least board eligible, which to most 3rd party payors these days doesn't qualify as a real doctor :lol: you need to be be board certified to get paid or hospital priviliges ) then it would be in BOLD TYPE on every page of their website.

now of course, there are "doctors" running other schools. Paul Tien is I believe an engineer and has a PhD only ( which is all he's ever claimed )....I assume he was a gold leaf paint engineer for Ford Motor company given his tendency to splatter gold spray paint on statues of himself. Still I don't think he portrays himself as Marcus Welby, so herein lies the distinction.

you portray yourself as a real doc, then people ask about your training.
Seems fair to me

bts4202
06-27-2004, 08:07 AM
Sorry, but poppy that is not proof. That is anecdotal evidence. I can say, "Oh i talked to him last week and he said he graduated from harvard". Doesn't make it true! Also, since I have talked to Dr. ***** hundreds of times, consider him somewhat of a friend, and have talked about experiences in the hospital many times and he has never told me he went to grace, I tend not to believe your story. It may be true, but it just doesn't seem believeable to someone who actually knows Dr. *****. If you can't provide real, "evidence based" (something as a physician you will need to get used to) proof, then your statements must be regarded as unsubtantiated gossip.

Also, to all else. It is widely known that Dr. ***** is not a licensed physician in the US. However, if an import/export buissnessman(Ross) or a PhDin engineering can start a medical school and have it now one of the big three, then it is pretty obvious that being a licensed MD is not neccesary to run a medical school.

bts4202
06-27-2004, 08:19 AM
BTW, not that I actualy care one bit about Grace, but it is just really weird how people keep saying grace closed down when they are still open and have a charter in Belize. They were kicked out of where ever they were before and then got a new charter in Belize, kind of like when SMU was kicked out of Belize and had to get a new charter in the Caymans.

http://www.grace-usom.org/

Upon emailing them, I was told that there are currently 150 students in the program.

azskeptic
06-27-2004, 08:21 AM
It appears that St. Chris has a don't ask, don't tell policy about certain questions and you have strayed onto one of the questions that they don't answer.

azskeptic
06-27-2004, 08:46 AM
BTW, not that I actualy care one bit about Grace, but it is just really weird how people keep saying grace closed down when they are still open and have a charter in Belize. They were kicked out of where ever they were before and then got a new charter in Belize, kind of like when SMU was kicked out of Belize and had to get a new charter in the Caymans.

http://www.grace-usom.org/

Upon emailing them, I was told that there are currently 150 students in the program.

Musical medical schools

teratos
06-27-2004, 08:50 AM
BTW, not that I actualy care one bit about Grace, but it is just really weird how people keep saying grace closed down when they are still open and have a charter in Belize. They were kicked out of where ever they were before and then got a new charter in Belize, kind of like when SMU was kicked out of Belize and had to get a new charter in the Caymans.

http://www.grace-usom.org/

Upon emailing them, I was told that there are currently 150 students in the program.

They did close, they lost their WHO recognition and a ton of people got screwed. You are just too young to remember.....

dt
06-27-2004, 09:08 AM
AAIMG claims "the promoter is a graduate and former vice dean of Grace University who never completed postgraduate training".

azskeptic
06-27-2004, 09:32 AM
AAIMG claims "the promoter is a graduate and former vice dean of Grace University who never completed postgraduate training".

When I met him in Washington in April I personally asked him where he got his MD. He said "Let's not talk about that."...he preferred to focus the discussion on St. Chris.

Suppose it doesn't matter in the scheme of things but St. Chris's problems appear to be from a lack of candor on many issues. But then its public face is this forum and it isn't the official information. St. Chris needs a public relations firm to help them get straight with the outside world. The students love the school...would the public love it if it knew everything,blemishes and all?

poppy
06-27-2004, 09:52 AM
Sorry, but poppy that is not proof. That is anecdotal evidence. I can say, "Oh i talked to him last week and he said he graduated from harvard". Doesn't make it true! Also, since I have talked to Dr. ***** hundreds of times, consider him somewhat of a friend, and have talked about experiences in the hospital many times and he has never told me he went to grace, I tend not to believe your story. It may be true, but it just doesn't seem believeable to someone who actually knows Dr. *****.

i'm genuinely sorry that you don't believe me bts4202, but everything i said is completely true and i honestly don't know how i could have made up some of the details. as far as solid proof, you know as welll as i do that as a completely unlicensed physician the only proof of his medical training would be his degree. you're purposely asking for something you know that no one here can give you.

have you never wondered why someone who took apparent offense at being referred to as simply a businessman and who seems quite proud of his medical knowledge, spent four years studying to earn a medical degree and then couldn't be bothered to become a licensed physician? could he be one of the hundreds of grace graduates left with a worthless degree after the school closed down?

maybe the next time ***** is stunning you with his vast ammount of medical knowledge you should perhaps ask him where exactly he acquired it....

neilc
06-27-2004, 10:14 AM
well, sounds like he went somewhere shady!

any dean/owner of a med school should state his credentials. he calls himself "dr." yet does not state how he earned this distinction.

dodgy. this school and its policies give me the shivers.

dt
06-27-2004, 10:31 AM
...

maybe the next time ***** is stunning you with his vast ammount of medical knowledge you should perhaps ask him where exactly he acquired it....


...and that way, you too can go directly to the source of medical knowledge!

Darlyn3
06-27-2004, 11:23 AM
Dana, don't waste your time answering to this person (poppy). Just let him run his mouth. You don't have to prove anything to him.

P.S. Poppy, do me a favor, don't reply with something stupid, I've said nothing to offend you in any way, so let's keep it like this. Thanks



hey darilyn,

thanks for the advice but i'm perfectly capable of choosing to how and when i'll respond to posts without your help. you certainly haven't said anything to offend me (well except for calling me a guy :?), however, it was i that was accused of making unsubstantiated claims by bts4202. you're absolutely right, bts4202 has nothing to prove to me or anyone else, but if bts4202 is going to accuse me of propagating false information he/she should be willing to correct those statements i've made that are inaccurate.

thanks,

poppy

Sorry about calling you a guy! :oops: I just think we should just leave all of this alone already. Where is it taking us???? Nowhere, and instead of trying to help one another, we're going against each other. We've said this plenty of times, SC has it's flaws like any new medical school would, but it's working it's way up slowly. I was checking the AMA Physician Finder so some good friends that are starting their residency in North Carolina this year, and they're not even listed. I checked for a couple in Texas, and they too aren't listed yet! So, we just have to give all of this time and see where it goes, but instead we choose to go about this in the wrong way.
Now, why are we so concerned about where Dr. ***** received his medical education? It's none of our business and I think we should leave Dr. ***** out of this forum, ALITTLE RESPECT goes a long way. I will say Azskeptic, Picard, and Teratos has made huge contributions in this forum and we appreciate it most from the two how are physicians and have gone through the whole process, but seriously let's leave it alone already. LET'S WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITT!! :evil:
And again, sorry poppy for calling you a guy :wink:

Take care guys,

Darlyn

neilc
06-27-2004, 01:51 PM
darlyn, people who are going to be residents are not licensed. they should not show up on the ama site.

and, what matters more than whether ***** (i won't call him doctor, since he apparently didn't go to med school...) went to grace is that he hides it, deflects conversation from it. that is shady. period. he is who he is, and if he doesn't want to answer simple questions, he is hiding something.

no offense, but you seem pretty niave about this. it is as though you think by closing your eyes and ignoring questions about your school, that all will be well. hopefully, it will. but there are lots and lots of issues facing your school. you should be looking for real answers and critically questioning what goes on there. just hoping for the best and expecting everyone to stay positive is not going to make your degree worthwhile.

between st chris and spartan, this site stays pretty darn interesting.

Darlyn3
06-27-2004, 02:14 PM
darlyn, people who are going to be residents are not licensed. they should not show up on the ama site.

and, what matters more than whether ***** (i won't call him doctor, since he apparently didn't go to med school...) went to grace is that he hides it, deflects conversation from it. that is shady. period. he is who he is, and if he doesn't want to answer simple questions, he is hiding something.

no offense, but you seem pretty niave about this. it is as though you think by closing your eyes and ignoring questions about your school, that all will be well. hopefully, it will. but there are lots and lots of issues facing your school. you should be looking for real answers and critically questioning what goes on there. just hoping for the best and expecting everyone to stay positive is not going to make your degree worthwhile.

between st chris and spartan, this site stays pretty darn interesting.

NeilC, what is this supposed to mean?
just hoping for the best and expecting everyone to stay positive is not going to make your degree worthwhile. I was nowhere near meaning that. I could care less! I'm just tired of seeing the same people cry and moan and the darn time. Don't you guys ever get tired of doing the same thing everysingle day? I'm not here to talk about Dr. *****, what he says and does is on him, I'm not going to criticize nobody. Oh, and call me naive as much as you want, the only thing I can tell you is to let me be. What goes on said in this forum isn't going to change my mind. I know what I got myself into and that's that. This has been going on for too long, if it's not about Licensure, then you guys talk about how dirty the men's bathroom is at SC, and if not about that, then about the sexy langerie store down the street and what's it doing in front of a school. What the fluck? You say I should be looking for real answers right? Well, all I can say is that I've found my real answers, and from the right people, not from people on this forum for sure! And about the AMA site, haven't you read the previous posts from others, they say that they have to show up if they're residents and if they're licensed in a State.
I don't expect for you guys to hope for the best for SC, and if you do Thank you, you'll receive your blessing soon. I just can't stand to see how some people think they know it all, when in reality they don't know shhhhhh. But enough about that, going about your business and I'll go on about mine, and BTW, no offense taken! :wink:

Good luck Neilc,

Best Regards,

Darlyn

neilc
06-27-2004, 05:53 PM
read the posts more carefully...they do not have to show up if they are residents, but they do if they are licensed...as a resident, especially an international grad, you are likely not getting licensed until after your second or third year. US grads can not get licensesd until after the first year...and, i do not think it is required to have a full, unrestricted license at any point durning your residency, unless you moonlight.

so, any resident may or may not show up on the AMA thing. but, any licensed physician (post-residency) should show up. they are claiming max got his license, yet it does not show up.

all i mean is that you should be careful. it is very, very easy to believe something if you want it to be true. i was applying to med school not so long ago. i remember wanting to believe everything, because i wanted to achieve my dream of being a doctor. some of the schools that i looked at promised the moon. i really wanted it to be so. but, wisely (not a common thing for me, acting wisely) i choose a more established path. and, some of the schools i looked at are not around any more, despite the golden words. or, if they are around, they are barely scraping by.

and, i don't do the same thing every day. i don't post very often, in fact. but, this st chris stuff is too amusing to pass up for long. so many claims, so much hype, so many students upset that those of us on this forum speak up when something doesn't smell right. sorry, but there is not a lot going for your school when compared to other schools. and, when your founding father is too ashamed to admit where he went to school, it should make warning lights go off in your head! what else is he hiding? i agree that the fact he went to grace, while meaningful, is not the end of the world. but the fact that he tries to hide his personal qualifications, and the fact that nobody questions this makes me laugh. he is a great salesman. doesn't this at least make you question whether he is giving you the whole story about ANYTHING he says? it would have that effect on me.

so, best of luck in your choice. i hope it works out. but, do not be surprised when yet another fiasco erupts around st chris. it has happened before, and it will happen again. when will it stop? well, it will stop when the school gets grads licensed without problems in the majority of states, or when the school shuts down. it sure won't stop sooner, because i have yet to see more than a few weeks go by without some ridiculous stuff being said about this school, that turns out to be more lies.

milos
06-27-2004, 09:27 PM
It is widely known that Dr. ***** is not a licensed physician in the US.

Oh really?

Then why did he repeatedly say that he was a licensed physician in Florida? In fact, he specifically stated that he was an ER doc in Naples. He has said this in front of countless witnesses. Ask your fellow students, for example.

FLK
06-27-2004, 10:52 PM
It is widely known that Dr. ***** is not a licensed physician in the US.

Oh really?

Then why did he repeatedly say that he was a licensed physician in Florida? In fact, he specifically stated that he was an ER doc in Naples. He has said this in front of countless witnesses. Ask your fellow students, for example.



an AMA doctor finder 6/27/04 yields no results for Dr *****

Picard
06-28-2004, 10:29 PM
I believe AMA doc-finder reports physicians submitted by each individual state licensing boards. All licensed physicians are submitted by each board, so if you are licensed somewhere in the US, it should show up soon after your license is issued. Mine did. As for residents, it depends on whether or not the state reports them. Some states keep track of their residents while others don't. So some unlicensed residents show up and some don't.

As for *****, who cares where he went to school... as long as he is honest about it. If he holds himself to be a medical doctor (I assume he has no other doctoral degree besides his mysterious MD) in public eyes, then it's a fair game to ask where he went to school and where he did postgraduate training. If he is not willing to answer this basic quesiton about himself, then it makes you wonder what else is he hiding? Besides, in most US jurisdictions, it's actually illegal to publically call oneself a doctor unless one either has a full unrestricted license or is in residency training. So, by registering as "Dr." ***** in the April Washington DC meeting, he is actually committing fraud....

So, what does this mean for SC? Who knows. But I would be worried to have someone like ***** running the show...

P

poppy
06-29-2004, 03:11 PM
As for *****, who cares where he went to school... as long as he is honest about it. If he holds himself to be a medical doctor (I assume he has no other doctoral degree besides his mysterious MD) in public eyes, then it's a fair game to ask where he went to school and where he did postgraduate training. If he is not willing to answer this basic quesiton about himself, then it makes you wonder what else is he hiding?

i think this is exactly the point that most of us have been trying to make in regards to the issue of where ***** went to med school. no one here cares whether the founders/directors of offshore programs were medical doctors, engineers, businessmen or summertime fruit pickers so long as they were honest and completely forthright about themselves and their intentions. ***** is deceptively using a title he may or may not even have the right to use and then refusing to answer direct questions about it. i have an annoying habit of asking most of the doctors i come across where they went to medical school and trained as a post-graduate, and not a single one has ever refused to answer. it's a question they've probably been asked a million times before yet none were ever bothered to answer it one more time. i think they understand that if they use the title "doctor" and the distinction "M.D." that people have the right to question where these were earned.


Besides, in most US jurisdictions, it's actually illegal to publically call oneself a doctor unless one either has a full unrestricted license or is in residency training. So, by registering as "Dr." ***** in the April Washington DC meeting, he is actually committing fraud....


i'm not an expert on UK laws, but i'm sure there's probably an equivalent statute in england. it might be time for ***** to start introducing himself as 'paul' regardless of where he is.

azskeptic
06-29-2004, 03:22 PM
One of the things that is fascinating about this forum/group of forums is that you never know for sure who the players are. Like in ancient Venice when everyone wore masks you wonder if the posters are school employees, owners, students,competitors, rabblerousers, educational terrorists.....makes for an interesting street......

az skeptic,running along with his cape and mask flapping in the wet wind of Venice...where is the wine?

bts4202
06-29-2004, 05:59 PM
One of the things that is fascinating about this forum/group of forums is that you never know for sure who the players are. Like in ancient Venice when everyone wore masks you wonder if the posters are school employees, owners, students,competitors, rabblerousers, educational terrorists.....makes for an interesting street......

az skeptic,running along with his cape and mask flapping in the wet wind of Venice...where is the wine?

LOL, yeah, u are very right about that one. It is also confusing when some people have quite a few accounts, u never know who you are really talking to or if they are just talking to themselves..lol

RajPatel
06-30-2004, 09:16 PM
While it's true that you never know the person behind the post, except in very few cases, it's also true that you can get an idea of the general credibility of a poster by watching the evolution of the posts.

If someone unabashedly combats each and every damning piece of evidence (real world) that comes out against a school, advocates a blinders-on attitude to any and all legit issues of concern, defends the school, without basis or logic, against serious matters that are unearthed by prospective and current students.....well, then you can be sure that person is affiliated with the school.

What's even more troubling is when you read the history of a person's posts, who starts out very positive and upbeat about XYZ school and then actually attends and the enthusiasm and optimism go out the window and the "negative" (read frank) posts start.. That says a lot also, and ranks at the opposite end of the credibility spectrum compared to the previous example.

So while it's true that you should never form an opinion of any school just based on what's written here, it's equally true that much of what is written here, negative or positive, is able to be confirmed with a few quick phone calls/emails to the appropriate parties.







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