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BLisow1
07-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Does anybody know how St Chris is currently accredited? ECFMG status?

RobOman
07-29-2009, 12:21 PM
The IMED-FAIMER listing (which is what is needed for acceptance by the ECFMG) for SCIMD is active. The school is accredited in Senegal, which is where the university that SCIMD is a part of is located. The school was recently accredited by the Accreditation Service for International Colleges in the UK and is listed as a Premier College.

chapelier
07-29-2009, 02:16 PM
good for them ! is it ASIC listed for UK or Senegal or both?
is there a chance that it becomes GMC accredited?

RobOman
07-30-2009, 12:05 AM
As far as I am aware the ASIC accreditation is valid for all the elements of SCIMD, but I would suggest contacting the school or ASIC directly and asking them to be sure.

I believe SCIMD moving to the "Case-by-Case" list for the GMC is an eventuality but as far as I know it isn't currently possible to say when that will happen. You can contact SCIMD's UK office and they might be able to give you more information on that.

giggidy
08-21-2009, 02:24 PM
Upon making an inquiry to WES (World Education Services) today, an credential evaluation service, for the purpose of transferring credits to a U.S. University, for licensing bodies, and for employment, I have been informed by them that WES will NOT do an evaluation for St Christopher's College of Medicine, St Christopher's Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine, or University El Hadj Ibrahima Niasse. According to WES it is irrelevant whether St Chris has FAIMER/WHO/EFCMG.

Hence the ongoing quagmire continues... (giggidy)

Any suggestions? Input?

Tipton
08-21-2009, 02:34 PM
There are so many issues mixed up in your post...I have a hard time deciding where to begin.

WES is an independent credential evaluation agency. Asking them about ECFMG/WHO/FAIMER is like asking a car mechanic about mechanical engineering. Of course it is irrelevant for them! They don't know anything about it!

giggidy
08-21-2009, 03:22 PM
There are so many issues mixed up in your post...I have a hard time deciding where to begin.

WES is an independent credential evaluation agency. Asking them about ECFMG/WHO/FAIMER is like asking a car mechanic about mechanical engineering. Of course it is irrelevant for them! They don't know anything about it!

Firstly, you seem very hostile. Secondly, there is only one issue, not many, that is, WES will not do a credential service for St Chris and/or if you happened to transfer St Chris credits to another school i.e/ ROSS, then WES will not do one for the latter either. Lastly, your analogy is meaningless and demonstrates to me that you just don't get it.

So, let me educate you just a bit:

World Education Services (WES) is the leading source of international education intelligence. WES is a not for profit organization with over thirty years’ experience evaluating international credentials. WES provides more than 50,000 evaluations each year that are accepted by thousands of academic institutions, employers, licensing and certification boards and government agencies in the U.S. and Canada.

Now, in order for acceptance of transfer credits to U.S Colleges and/or Universities it is a requirement that the credits come from accreditation from the following list of Regional Accrediting Bodies:

Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools (MSA)
Northwest Association of Schools and Colleges (NASC)
North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA)
New England Association of Schools and Colleges, Inc. - Commission on Institutions of Higher Education (NEASC-CIHE)
Southern Association of Schools and Colleges - Commission on Colleges (SASC-CC)
Western Association of Schools and Colleges - Accrediting Commission for Community and Junior Colleges (WASC-Jr)
Western Association of Schools and Colleges - Accrediting Commission for Senior Colleges and Universities (WASC-Sr)

IF NOT: Then one will require an INDEPENDENT credential evaluation service from WES, et al provides.

So, it is not surprising that you had a HARD time deciding where to begin since you seemingly missed that point all together. Just like WES is INDEPENDENT so too is FAMIER - a non-profit foundation committed to improving world health through education, and ECFMG - the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates who assesses the readiness of international medical graduates to enter residency or fellowship programs in the United States that are accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME)....

I could go on, but I just realized I am wasting my time trying to explain this to you. Just know this: These are the types of issues that will re-surface come time for state licensure as they will require evaluated transcripts and could care less whether FAIMER/WHO/ECFMG approved your time in residency.

Thanks for wasting my time. However, I am looking for some real useful input or suggestion from others who may have had similar problem.

Tipton
08-21-2009, 08:12 PM
LOLOL

I have about 10 years admissions experience specifically with transcript evaluation. You're not going to educate me with anything realted to WES or any other type of transfer-related issue.

Have fun.

RobOman
08-21-2009, 10:06 PM
Tipton is correct. Anything from WES would be useless for medical licensing in the US.

The only things that matter for getting a med. lic. in the US with regard to the school are:

1) If the school is listed in IMED (Yes, it is)

2) If that listing was active during the period you attended the school (The listing is active for the years 2000-Present)

3) If you can sit for the Step exams (Yes, you can)

4) If you can get ECFMG certified once your get your degree (Yes, You can)

5) If your degree is accepted for licensure in the state where you are applying for a license (That depends, you have to check with the state where you want to get licensed)

The only verification service that one can use for the purpose of applying to a residency program, fellowship, or for medical licensure is the Federation Credentials Verification Service which is offered by the Federation of State Medical Boards.

As far as transferring to a US university, every case I have heard of since the 90's involved the student starting over from scratch, so there would be no need or reason to get anything evaluated by WES.

Concerning employment, I can't imagine any prospective employer asking for anything other than the FCVS offered by the FSMB.

giggidy
08-22-2009, 12:48 AM
LOLOL

I have about 10 years admissions experience specifically with transcript evaluation. You're not going to educate me with anything realted to WES or any other type of transfer-related issue.

Have fun.

Mr. 10 Years Admissions:

Since I can't educate you, why not educate me? Who am I to argue with an admissions expert right? So, tell me then, assuming you are true to your calling, when a reputable U.S. University requests a credential service from WES or alike, as required, in lieu of a regional accreditation, how does one transfer credits from a foreign institution without the transcripts being evaluated by an independent body? This should be an easy one coming from a transcript expert no doubt...

I'm guessing your going to either say, " you don't" or "it's not needed for residency or licensure". But, keep in mind I am requiring it for transfer purposes and for state licensure. Hence, I am sitting on the edge of my seat hoping for a much more comprehensive suggestion rather than the mechanic versus the mechanical engineer analogy however. One that I doubt you will be able to answer, unless of course, U.S. Colleges and Universities and State Licensing Boards have it all wrong and you have it all right. Right?

giggidy
08-22-2009, 01:02 AM
Tipton is correct. Anything from WES would be useless for medical licensing in the US.

The only things that matter for getting a med. lic. in the US with regard to the school are:

1) If the school is listed in IMED (Yes, it is)

2) If that listing was active during the period you attended the school (The listing is active for the years 2000-Present)

3) If you can sit for the Step exams (Yes, you can)

4) If you can get ECFMG certified once your get your degree (Yes, You can)

5) If your degree is accepted for licensure in the state where you are applying for a license (That depends, you have to check with the state where you want to get licensed)

The only verification service that one can use for the purpose of applying to a residency program, fellowship, or for medical licensure is the Federation Credentials Verification Service which is offered by the Federation of State Medical Boards.

As far as transferring to a US university, every case I have heard of since the 90's involved the student starting over from scratch, so there would be no need or reason to get anything evaluated by WES.

Concerning employment, I can't imagine any prospective employer asking for anything other than the FCVS offered by the FSMB.

Thanks, but besides from being very concerned am about your #5 as state licensing bodies are seemingly more interested in transcript credentialing especially from schools with a colorful past like St Chris, I am also finding the "no need" for the WES in the first place suggestion to not have been my experience to date. Further, keep in mind that US Immigration may also require transcript credentialing for the H1B visa, etc. But, trust me, I'd much rather be wrong on all of this, however, it just continues not to be my experience and thus I am looking for others who may have had similar issues that were able to navigate through this continued St Chris quandary.

RobOman
08-23-2009, 11:09 AM
Thanks, but besides from being very concerned am about your #5 as state licensing bodies are seemingly more interested in transcript credentialing...Maybe I wasn't clear in my previous post; the only credential verification service that is accepted by state licensing boards in the context of international medical schools is the Federation Credentials Verification Service, nothing else. WES has absolutely no applicability with regard to credential verification for state medical licensing in the US concerning international medical schools.

A significant number of St. Chris students have used the FCVS offered by the FSMB without any issues.

With respect to medical degree acceptability for a given US state, credential verification has nothing to do with that. If a medical degree is not accepted by a state it is because the school doesn't meet some statutory requirement set forth by that state, no level of credential verification is going to change that.

Chopdoc
08-23-2009, 11:29 AM
The only occasion that I have been aware of where such a credential verification helped an FMG had nothing to do with licensing.

He got a job instructing at a nursing school (physiology), and to get it he was required to get his credentials verified and translated by one of these organizations (I think it actually was WES).


For medical licensing, those organizations simply have nothing to do with it.

I have known several FMGs who had their credentials "translated" by such services based on misguided advice and it got them exactly and precisely nothing and nowhere except that it lightened their bank account.

Tipton
08-24-2009, 10:02 AM
Mr. 10 Years Admissions:

Since I can't educate you, why not educate me? Who am I to argue with an admissions expert right? So, tell me then, assuming you are true to your calling, when a reputable U.S. University requests a credential service from WES or alike, as required, in lieu of a regional accreditation, how does one transfer credits from a foreign institution without the transcripts being evaluated by an independent body? This should be an easy one coming from a transcript expert no doubt...

One must follow the requirements put forward by the insitution into which one is seeking "tansfer". Many universities will do their own evaluation based on works published by AACROA or depend on an independent agency's evaluation: WES or similar NACES-affiliated agency.

The only possible problem any agency may have with St. Chris transcripts was their transcripts temporary unavailability when St. Chris was in receivership. Why WES or anyone else would refuse to work with a St. Chris transcript makes no sense to me.

If WES for whatever reason will not work with a St. Chris transcript, find another NACES agency that will. ECE out of Milwaukee may be better.


I'm guessing your going to either say, " you don't" or "it's not needed for residency or licensure". But, keep in mind I am requiring it for transfer purposes and for state licensure. Hence, I am sitting on the edge of my seat hoping for a much more comprehensive suggestion rather than the mechanic versus the mechanical engineer analogy however. One that I doubt you will be able to answer, unless of course, U.S. Colleges and Universities and State Licensing Boards have it all wrong and you have it all right. Right?

Again you are mixing issues up. Transfering St. Chris credit has absolutely nothing to do with applying for residency or licensure.

Chopdoc's and Roboman's posts I think clarify the apparent confusion between "credential verification" and "credential evaluation". Verification may include evaluation in the process. But evaluation does not equal verification.

I hope this helps.

giggidy
08-24-2009, 06:13 PM
Thank you Tipton, Chopdoc, and Roboman. I can now go back with something useful to work with...:peace:

chapelier
08-25-2009, 07:54 AM
I wonder how credential services like WES and other dozens of agencies without legitimacy can claim to be competent about anything
And when you see who asks to use these services (eastern europe agents for instance) .. then you understand how reliable it can be . And I cannot imagine the price of the stamp they put on your documents

mikethemike
09-07-2009, 10:58 AM
St. Chris is toast in New York State **********

What most people don't know is that St. Chris graduates and current St. Chris students are banned from applying to residency training in New York State, in addition to, being completely banned in applying for licensure in NY State as well.

Current St. Chris students are also banned from performing clinical clerkships (Cores and electives) in New York State.

This is according to the following individuals:

M. S.
W. R. - Executive Secretary
New York State Board for Medicine
89 Washington Avenue
West Wing – 2nd Floor, Albany, NY 12234
Tel. 518-474-3817, Ext. 560 Fax 518-486-4846



Don't risk losing your medical career for attending a school New York State considers questionable and a scam.

This is according to the individuals above. Call them and they will tell you New York State's derogatory stance on St. Christopher.



*************

AUCMD2006
09-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Tipton is correct. Anything from WES would be useless for medical licensing in the US.

The only things that matter for getting a med. lic. in the US with regard to the school are:

1) If the school is listed in IMED (Yes, it is)

2) If that listing was active during the period you attended the school (The listing is active for the years 2000-Present)

3) If you can sit for the Step exams (Yes, you can)

4) If you can get ECFMG certified once your get your degree (Yes, You can)

5) If your degree is accepted for licensure in the state where you are applying for a license (That depends, you have to check with the state where you want to get licensed)

The only verification service that one can use for the purpose of applying to a residency program, fellowship, or for medical licensure is the Federation Credentials Verification Service which is offered by the Federation of State Medical Boards.

As far as transferring to a US university, every case I have heard of since the 90's involved the student starting over from scratch, so there would be no need or reason to get anything evaluated by WES.

Concerning employment, I can't imagine any prospective employer asking for anything other than the FCVS offered by the FSMB.


is this from a foreign med school to a US med school? if so this is simply not true. every year students from sgu, ross, and auc transfer over to US med schools to begin third year...two from my class of 50 actually and we all graduated at the same time. one is in his 3rd year pathology and another in 3rd year fp.

why all the hate for SC suddenly? they changed the way they do things and are running things a lot more legit than before. they dont claim to be some humanitarian mission anymore, nor do they claim to be a brittish med school..the only questionable thing they are doing now is continue to claim to be part of some huge university that is probably not really functional other than name only..wonder hwo many grads from the senegal campus are in residency now.. other than that they turned as legit as the other for profit money pits we keep dumping our money into

loan10011
09-11-2009, 07:11 AM
Well put! That is the key point. Thank you!


If a medical degree is not accepted by a state it is because the school doesn't meet some statutory requirement set forth by that state, no level of credential verification is going to change that.







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