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friesdavid
05-19-2009, 04:52 AM
Hi, I recently got accepted into the 4 yr md both in Poznan and Lublin.
Now I have to decide which one to attend.
I am more concern about the clinical rotation, as I want to come back to US when I am done school, it is better for me to do all my clinical rotation in US.

I know that at Lublin, I can spend the first two years in Poland, and do two years of clinical rotation in the affliated hospital in the US (I HOPE THEY ARE ALL GREEN BOOK!!),
I wonder if I can do two years of clinical rotation in US if I go to Poznan. I heard that they allowed the 4th year of clinical rotation in US, but the question is do they set it up for you? or do I have to find my own sponser hospital to do all my clinical rotation....and moreover, 1 year is not good enough, doesn't the california board requires up to 72 weeks of clinical rotation at the hospital in order to qualified for residency....1 year is less than 72 weeks


I am only using california as an example, because as I understand, most states use cali's rules

can someone help me out with my dilemma and provide me with the correct info?

thanks
sincerely

bigndude
05-19-2009, 08:06 AM
Well Poznan does have it own hospital and they do have clinical sites to have rotations and they are California approved. So your fine in Cali even if you do 3rd and 4th year clinical work in Poland. But yes you would likely have to set up your 4th year rotations yourself, Krakow is the only school I know of that sets up the 4th year ones for you, in Cali if you want to.
I can't comment about Lublin since I don't know much about it.
Overall though, there is nothing wrong with not doing every single clinical rotation in the U.S.. Yes it is better to do the one for your specialty of choice in the US but for the others its fine to do them in Poland. As long as you have US LORs that are good, and a good solid USMLE Step 1 score, some luck, and maybe some connections you'll likely get a residency.

friesdavid
05-19-2009, 09:32 PM
thanks
appreciate your help
LOR = letters of recommandations right?

also, I heard some states required all clinical rotation done at Greenbook hospitals in US, if that's the case, I wonder if I will be eligible to apply for residency at those states

FOID
05-19-2009, 09:36 PM
yup. LOR = letter of rec

bigndude
05-19-2009, 09:38 PM
Well, my guess, would be yes, since that is the requirement for people coming from the Caribbean where they don't have their own clinical hospital on site. In Poland, the school has its own hospitals and for that reason doctors from both their Polish and English program can come here without any clinicals here in the US and get a residency (but you would have to be realllllly lucky to do it). There is nothing that I know of that says you must do rotations here if you want to practice here. That right away would disqualify many many IMG's and FMG's, and if you've ever been in a hospital you know that there are many of those types of docs. But once again, it is a plus to do some rotations in the U.S. coming from Poland, since it helps you get the connections you need.

And yes LOR = letters of recommendation

friesdavid
05-20-2009, 04:39 AM
thanks to all of you
that kinda clears my dilemma
I think I am going to call Poznan and ask them about how many years do they allowed clinical rotation in US
I think I am just going to pick the school which allows the most clinical rotations done in US...
that solves my dilemma when comparing Lublin to Poznan

if any of you have better suggestion please tell me
I would love to know before I made up my mind

bigndude
05-20-2009, 07:40 AM
Your best bet isn't to look at who has more clinical hours in the U.S., but who places more students into U.S. residencies. Look around on google and see how many students you can find from each program who are in a residency. Because it does not work in the way that the more you do here, the more your guaranteed anything. Yes, it helps, yes its a plus if you don't know any doctors now who can help you, but it really depends on only one person and that is you.

If for example you want to do pediatrics, and you do your core pediatrics in the U.S. 3rd year, the rest of your cores in Poland and then 4th year do 1 or 2 more peds rotations in the U.S. you will be on a decent playing field. Why? Because the other rotations while they do count gradewise, don't really count if you want to do peds. The peds rotations count most for a peds residency. So even if you do the rest of your rotations outside of peds in Poland, but do peds. here in the U.S., and do really well in the rotations and get programs and their staff to like you, and have a good step 1 score, your odds for that program are likely going to be good.
If your looking to do as many rotations in the U.S. as possible then quite frankly the Carribean schools are your best bet for that since they will set them up for you. Most Polish schools will not, a few maybe, but 2 years worth, I doubt.

Best of luck!

Lisa2009
05-20-2009, 06:35 PM
Hi FriesDavid,
I'm a final 4th yr medic at Lublin. I'm having a FANTASTIC time here at lublin. The professors are really good and lectures are well explained and we have handouts for every module.

I'm graduating this year so I feel I can answer your q really well. I did all my clinical attachments in the USA (im a US citizen too) and it was really easy for me to do my clinicals here. The university organised everything. The professors had great contacts in all the top university hospitals in the US and California.

USMLE another main thing- they prepare you really well and I've passed with over 90%. The lectures covered all the parts you need. I didn't really need to revise extra material.

I got my residency sorted for next year again with the help of the univeristy.

A couple of my friends went to Poznan, they HATED it there and transferred to Lublin. Poznan therefore wasted a year of their study. A lot of people also drop out due to the lecturers teaching methods are bad, no handouts, accomodation is bad, and they're big headed. Poznan also increase tuition fees every time a person drops out. It's bad there. I'd suggest Lublin all the way. Most of my friends have passed USMLE with amazing marks and its been voted top notch.

Hope this helps!!! I'm free to answer any q's (but i think u know the answer) xoxo

friesdavid
05-20-2009, 07:02 PM
again
thanx for all of your answers

one question about Lublin though
is it true they allowed students to do the last 2 years of clinical rotation ALL in US?
and do they set up the GREENBOOK rotation for us at the US hospitals
or do we have to find our own rotations?

Tipton
05-20-2009, 07:08 PM
I did all my clinical attachments in the USA (im a US citizen too) and it was really easy for me to do my clinicals here. The university organised everything. The professors had great contacts in all the top university hospitals in the US and California.

Really? What is a "clinical attachment"? Do you mean Clinical Rotations?

What hospitals were you in?

Lisa2009
05-21-2009, 07:53 AM
Hey sorry yes I meant clinical rotation. Yes its all true that Lublin let you do the last two years of clinical rotation in the US. (They're the only polish med school that let you do that- the other schools like Poznan just say stuff like that, but in the end they don't help you at all, and clinical rotations is very unlikely in the US. Most people don't get residencies after graduating from Poznan).

Lublin help you a lot as I said, in clinical rotations and finding them. They have great contacts and due to the high reputation Lublin has, the same hospitals over and over again take you on. I did mine at great hospitals. One of the lecturers has contacts in Havard university hospitals, and most people do it scattered around, in california, texas, all over US.

I hope that helps in making your decision! Lublin all in all is wonderful for:
-great contacts
-great USMLE scores (over 90% scores)
-voted best polish school over and over
-great lecturers, they speak amazinnggg english (better than me!! and im from the US!)
-everyone gets residencies guaranteed
-happy environment
-drop out rate is very low (poznan they kick everyone out!) only one person left in my year for the whole duration and that was due to his mum being terminally ill.
-consistent tuition fees (low, and do not increase whenever like poznan. In poznan, they increase the fees ridiculously high and make you sign the agreement sheet there and then, you dont get to think it over with parents. if dont sign there and then, you dont attend lectures and exams.)


I hope i've been useful! Ask away cos any excuse to get away from revision! The notes here in Lublin are great- the handouts are referenced for us and they've condensed them down so I don't really need to do extra stuff!! xxx

Tipton
05-21-2009, 08:42 AM
Thanks for the clarification. Maybe you could share where you did rotations in the US: hospital names please.

Lisa2009
05-21-2009, 08:52 AM
Hey there I did my rotations at: univeristy of south alabama hospitals, harvard univeristy hospital, and beth israel medical center, NY.

all were prepared for me neatly by lublin-they were lovely and really easy to get clinical rotations by them.

Lisa2009
05-21-2009, 08:53 AM
tipton- were you contemplating going? is it between poznan and lublin? when do you have to decide and tell them by? I'm happy to help!

Tipton
05-21-2009, 08:55 AM
I'm graduating this year so I feel I can answer your q really well. I did all my clinical attachments in the USA (im a US citizen too) and it was really easy for me to do my clinicals here. The university organised everything. The professors had great contacts in all the top university hospitals in the US and California.

What I would like to learn is specific information about your US Clinical experience. What hospitals and which rotations did you complete?

bigndude
05-21-2009, 09:56 AM
**** although I see that you really like Lublin, I think you are saying a little too much about its quality and being the best. The best per Polish rankings for the Polish programs are Warsaw, Jagiellonian and Poznan. For the English program you could say it follows suit, that if the Polish one is high ranked, the English one likely follows. While I know you may have had a great experience your talking about it a little too much as if you have a vested interest in seeing this school get every applicant to be a student. You wrote that residency is guaranteed and well that couldn't be farther from the truth. A) The school is not in the U.S. so there are no "guarantees" and B) Not even U.S. schools have guaranteed residencies.
While your experience may have been good, others who have posted about Lublin have not had good things to say. Add to that the fact that you have to apply through an agent (Hope) and well I would say something smells fishy. The things you wrote in one of your posts about Poznan kicking people out, consistent tuition fees, etc makes it seem as though you are a salesperson for the school.
Also, FYI ****, Tipton is a school official at a Carib. school so he's not making a decision between the schools.

Chan_Wong
05-21-2009, 10:48 AM
hey guys, Im a second year at Lublin and have had no problems. I am in the process of sorting out clinical rotations in the US.

What **** is saying is correct from what I have been through and seen others go through here. I dont think there's a need to have a stab at her about what she thinks - everyone's entitled to their opinion. ppl ask for help on this website and thats what most people try and do..
peace

bigndude
05-21-2009, 11:08 AM
I didn't intend or want to stab at anyone, if you interpret it that way ****, sorry didn't mean it.
All that I was saying was there are some incorrect information especially pertaining to guaranteed residency that was posted. That was my biggest stick up, and maybe about it being "voted the best Polish school." I'm sure students from Jagiellonian and Warsaw would have some things to say about that, given the top ranking over the past years which has pretty much passed around in between them.

Elssha
05-22-2009, 03:19 AM
Hi all, glad to see the board starting up again ^_^
I'll be starting Lublin this fall (4yr)
My Q is, do you get to pick where you go for the US rotations or does the school basically delegate them on the basis of availability/score/etc? Can you do them all in one place or must you jump hospitals in order to get everything done? Are the hospitals green or bluebook?
Also, anyone know how their plan to get San Diego rotations is going; if it will pull through, when, where and so on?

devildoc8404
05-22-2009, 03:51 AM
FWIW, I think that Lisa2009's excessively-perky posts raise more than a couple of red flags. I am studying in SE Europe, and no med school that I have seen here is as perfect as s/he would suggest. (For that matter, no med school in the States is as flawless as Lublin, apparently!)

In addition, the incessant parenthetical Poznan-bashing really smacks of someone with an agenda. I could certainly be wrong, and I will not call anyone a liar, but I'll respectfully point out the following:

1- The syntax (and some of the vocabulary choices) in these posts doesn't seem to me like it was written by an American medical student. Again, s/he might be one, but that's just one man's opinion.
2- There is no "Harvard Univeristy (sic) Hospital." I lived, worked, and studied in Boston for seven years, and know the names of the Harvard affiliates.
3- How, exactly, would Lublin "arrange" residency training for a graduate? Is this a reference to a pre-match situation, or what is going on?
4- NOBODY GETS RESIDENCY GUARANTEED. Not even in the States. That is complete and utter hogwash.

Remember to take every post on this site (even this one) with a grain of celery salt. VERIFY EVERYTHING... INDEPENDENTLY. Just my .02, y'all.

Lisa2009
05-22-2009, 04:52 AM
Hi guys, I see there seems to be some sort of confusion going on. I thought this forum was to help people but obviously people have nothing else better to do than pick on people. Which is very sad as the whole purpose of helping goes out of the window.

There are suggestions on why I have said some things. The answer is simple: Everyone has their own opinion. I personally think Lublin is good, and that was confirmed with me being here. If people don't think so, then don't apply! Simple man! Another dig from the post above that I dont sound "american enough". You tell me then, what does an american sound like?? Your english vocab is better than mine so that answers your question. Just by writing a "y'all" doesn't make anyone american.

Granted no one gets residency guaranteed but everyone in my year has, of course you have to work at it too, nothing is given to you. If I suggested that I apologise. Lublin together with your intelligence make things happen. You have to be wise.

That is all. If no one wants to listen to me upto them. I'm just being helpful cos I've been through similar situation but now I've done my work and am heading back to the US so I didn't really need to be on this website cos my job is done now. And the people that are thinking i'm a liar that's upto them, but hey i'm the one with the residency and MD title now, so all I can say is if anyone still wants my opinion you can still PM me, I'm still answering q's to the ones who want advice. That's why I chose to be a doctor. goodbye.

bigndude
05-22-2009, 07:04 AM
****, it is very much to help people. Some members are just questioning some of the things you have said. People have other opinions, and no one is saying you didn't like the school, or didn't get a residency or anything like that. For me personally I just find it odd that you wrote guaranteed residency first, and now are backtracking and acting a little as if you never said it. Also, to me the whole school ranking being the best in Poland hits a little spot since I haven't ever seen it ranked that high. But once again these are my opinions, and my sticking spots. Others might have others, or whatever.

But my point is, its not picking on you. If you think what I wrote now is picking on you wait until you get to residency, thats when you'll be picked on, and constantly at that. The things people have written are more of questions, and points of differing opinion, nothing of the sort that you are full of it, etc.

Best of luck in residency though! Can you share with us where you got a residency? Or at least in what specialty? If you don't want to publicly private message me since I am interested to see what kind of spots Poland grads are getting for my own benefit in a few years :)

devildoc8404
05-22-2009, 07:45 PM
Lisa2009, I did not mean to infer that your language skills are sub-par. Rather, I noticed that some of your choices would seem more in line with British English (the use of the word "mum" instead of "mom," for one example). That's not a dig at people who aren't American, nor is it a criticism of your personal abilities in communication... it just doesn't fit the general mold of someone who is a Yank studying overseas. There have been plenty of cases on VMD with people pretending to be students in order to try to slide public opinion (or applications) one way or another. To me, this would seem to be a red flag in that direction. Again, though, I don't know you.

(Full disclosure: I apologize for using the term "y'all" in a possibly misleading fashion. While I am an American, I have never lived south of the Mason-Dixon. Well, except when forced to by service with the United States Marine Corps.)

Anyway, Lisa2009, assuming that you are a happy student at Lublin, and you have a residency position lined up, that's terrific. You're miles ahead of me, in that case! If that is the situation, it would indeed be helpful for potential applicants to know the following:

Why the constant vitriol for Poznan? You don't have any similar critiques for Jag or Warsaw?

By what measure is Lublin the "top school" in Poland? Again, you may have had an excellent experience in Lublin, which is fan-friggin-tastic, but are you resorting to hyperbole here?

Where did you match, and how did Lublin help you in securing your residency? If they are able to swing this kind of influence, I would really like for them to talk with the admin people at my school.

Why would you write "guaranteed residency" on a list of attributes about your school? It's simply disingenuous. If everyone in your class matched then that's great, but there is no guarantee about this sort of thing. That may have been a case of your enthusiasm getting the better of you, but surely you can see how that would raise eyebrows in a forum like this one.

And finally, where is "Harvard University Hospital?"

remember
06-03-2009, 07:11 AM
http://static.valuemd.com/images/smilies/wheelchair.gif

friesdavid
06-05-2009, 09:49 AM
dude
i swear to god you got some helpful comments
not being sarcastic
i like neutral comments
a better look at the subjects
glad to know that Lublin allows 2 years of clinical in US, that was the whole point

Elssha
06-05-2009, 04:07 PM
Yeah, remember gives a lot of good advice; school or cultural assimilation/adaptation wise. Gonna be sad to see him go.

Moldovanits
08-25-2009, 02:56 AM
Amen Remember Thank you for the awesome input!







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