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apaajalah
03-23-2009, 07:15 PM
Hi everybody,

Maybe it sounds a lil bit crazy... Can student who is currently studying Chiropractic program transfer themselves to medical doctor program ? I heard that the subject which is being learned at DC program is about the same as MD program, well it's not 100% the same. I read a lot of articles about chiropractors who quit their job and taking up their feet to walk another road. But it's NOT RARE I read information about successful chiropractors who can make hundred thousands dollars even poundsterling. Sometimes I think that Chiropractic program can be one big stepping stone for students who want to study MD... Is that right ???? Please suggestions...

maximillian genossa
03-24-2009, 09:02 AM
You can apply to medical school after taking the MCAT and meeting all the schools requirements but NO U.S. medical school will accept a single course from a D.C. program as transfer credit. You have to re-do all the basic sciences. If ANY Offshore school accepts them, then, don't go there either, it will bring you problems for licensure in the future.




Hi everybody,

Maybe it sounds a lil bit crazy... Can student who is currently studying Chiropractic program transfer themselves to medical doctor program ? I heard that the subject which is being learned at DC program is about the same as MD program, well it's not 100% the same. I read a lot of articles about chiropractors who quit their job and taking up their feet to walk another road. But it's NOT RARE I read information about successful chiropractors who can make hundred thousands dollars even poundsterling. Sometimes I think that Chiropractic program can be one big stepping stone for students who want to study MD... Is that right ???? Please suggestions...

azskeptic
03-24-2009, 09:19 AM
Medical school is different than chiropractic school. You have to change your focus if you want to be an MD.


Hi everybody,

Maybe it sounds a lil bit crazy... Can student who is currently studying Chiropractic program transfer themselves to medical doctor program ? I heard that the subject which is being learned at DC program is about the same as MD program, well it's not 100% the same. I read a lot of articles about chiropractors who quit their job and taking up their feet to walk another road. But it's NOT RARE I read information about successful chiropractors who can make hundred thousands dollars even poundsterling. Sometimes I think that Chiropractic program can be one big stepping stone for students who want to study MD... Is that right ???? Please suggestions...

khiro
03-24-2009, 01:00 PM
as genossa max has pointed out, the undeniable basic stepping stones to med school is acceptable gpa and mcat score; not vocations (DC, RN, PA). these vocations will help you, esp. rn and pa in knowing the practice arena before admittance, but by just having an rn or pa hardly qualifies one for medical school.

there are chiros who have, are, and will attend med school. the vast majority of them were in the top of their class at chiro college. while most would say that chiro was not a waste of time, and that chiro education (and practice) did help to a degree while in med school, most of the learning process would be new or presented in a new context, thus rendering the chiro education to minimal benefit.

if the chiro college is accredited then chiro college courses should transfer to fulfill undergraduate and some graduate level courses at similar accredited institutions based on course descriptions and degree program requirements. but never will they be accepted as transfer credit for courses required at med schools (MD or DO). nor would i automatically assume that credit would be given for chiro courses at dental or optometry schools, or that course from dental and optometry would be accepted at med schools. keep in mind credit given for any course(s) is up to the discretion of the school, and most schools now have written policies that clearly spell out their transfer credit procedures. (much more transparent than they used to be.)

bottom line is that, in my view, it would be a mistake to think that chiro would be a very useful or the most beneficial stepping stone to medical school. (way too expensive as well.)

good luck. khiro

CARICOM-MED
03-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Actually the first 2 years are very similar as with DDS / DPM programs, basic sciences are the same........Difference is Pharmacology....more emphasis in DO/MD programs.


***YOU CAN'T Transfer from ANY NON-MD program to MD PROGRAM, ECFMG or NBME will NOT ACCEPT YOUR TRANSFER CREDITS ***

azskeptic
03-24-2009, 03:10 PM
au contraire. Look at the training of the faculty at a major DC school for instance this one

Academic Program-Faculty (http://www.nycc.edu/AcademicPrograms_faclist.asp)

look at the backgrounds of this medical school faculty

Academic Departments | NYU Langone Medical Center | New York, NY (http://www.med.nyu.edu/education/academic_departments.html)

Look up their research papers. not even close......azskeptic


Actually the first 2 years are very similar as with DDS / DPM programs, basic sciences are the same........Difference is Pharmacology....more emphasis in DO/MD programs.


***YOU CAN'T Transfer from ANY NON-MD program to MD PROGRAM, ECFMG or NBME will NOT ACCEPT YOUR TRANSFER CREDITS ***

CARICOM-MED
03-24-2009, 03:21 PM
AZ, that's not a DC Faculty alone.....you have the Acupuncture instructors there as well...

If you want to compare apples to apples...

Also, you can review this School.....if you want to compare top Chiropractic school to top Medical school.....
Many of the DC Faculty are PhDs some MDs, many DCs....
National University of Health Sciences (http://www.nuhs.edu/show.asp?durki=519)

Which makes sense ;) that's a Chiropractic school....not medical school...;)
You can expect DOs in Osteopathic programs.....or DDSs in Dental school....fact of the matter......the PhDs will be the ones teaching the basic sciences...not clinical sciences ;)

Cheers ;)

azskeptic
03-24-2009, 03:26 PM
Either way, you don't have nationally recognized MD researchers,etc. It isn't the same level of education and the facilities are no where close. Plus you have some people teaching who believe in fairy tales i.e. conditions you can't find scientifically


AZ, that's not a DC Faculty alone.....you have the Acupuncture instructors there as well...

If you want to compare apples to apples...

Also, you can review this School.....if you want to compare top Chiropractic school to top Medical school.....
Many of the DC Faculty are PhDs some MDs, many DCs....
National University of Health Sciences (http://www.nuhs.edu/show.asp?durki=519)

Which makes sense ;) that's a Chiropractic school....not medical school...;)
You can expect DOs in Osteopathic programs.....or DDSs in Dental school....fact of the matter......the PhDs will be the ones teaching the basic sciences...not clinical sciences ;)

Cheers ;)

CARICOM-MED
03-24-2009, 05:17 PM
Thank You AZ, but I partially disagree with you on that one ;)
I am not the one to generalize....after all I graduated from UHSA, and would hate it if I was classified or labeled because of where I graduated from....

On that note:
Some DC schools are pseudo scientific, you are on the money on that one.....schools like Life U, and Sherman Straight Chiropractic College.

However, when I did an elective in Chicago, I visited a friend, who is a Chiropractic Radiologist, teaching radiology at NUHS, it is a Chiropractic College that got accredited as a University, the school is TOP notch, there were few MDs doing Anatomy dissections there, and they even have MRI on campus....up to date microbiology lab, histology and they publish 3 peer reviewed medical journals...JMPT etc....not that many Medical schools have the same facilities as this "Chiro school", let alone in the Caribbeans......

Example:
MRI Centre at NUHS

National University of Health Sciences (http://www.nuhs.edu/show.asp?durki=192)


Peer Reviewed Journals Published at NUHS
National University of Health Sciences (http://www.nuhs.edu/show.asp?durki=897)

CMCC:
http://www.cmcc.ca/ACADEMICPROGRAMS/Faculty/tabid/162/Default.aspx (http://www.cmcc.ca/ACADEMICPROGRAMS/Faculty/tabid/162/Default.aspx)

Also I heard the Canadian Chiropractic College is similar in nature (CMCC),
I have nothing against Chiros, as long as they are ethical and treat what they are suppose to....i.e. NMS conditions....not the Subluxation mambo jumbo ;)

Again, some DCs are great, ethical and provide care within their scope, others do not.....

PS
I got a really bad hair cut the other day, does that mean all hair dressers are bad ??

Cheers ;)



Either way, you don't have nationally recognized MD researchers,etc. It isn't the same level of education and the facilities are no where close. Plus you have some people teaching who believe in fairy tales i.e. conditions you can't find scientifically

khiro
03-25-2009, 08:04 AM
at the time that i went through the basic sciences (anatomy, physiology, biochem, neuroscience, histology, microbiology) at texas chiro college, all of these courses were taught by phds (non-chiro educated); also the pathology courses (general, and clinical). dcs taught physical diagnosis, adjusting, nutrition.

but the question is of what significant value would that be to one who then goes to med school?

as ushadoc has pointed out the basic science courses are very similar on paper, but perhaps the scope and depth of instruction is not the same because of the difference in the national board exam for chiros vs the step 1 for med students.

i know that looking at the websites from tcc and saba that there is a difference in approach of instruction. tcc students take somewhere on avg of 460 hours of instruction per semester, where saba is avg of 550 hours. also (like it was when i was there) tcc students on avg have 8 different courses per semester, where saba has not more than 4. certainly a difference in approach.

but back to the original question, as ushadoc has stated, no credits will be given in medicine for chiro credits; and it is my view that no one should by deliberate planning decide to go to chiro college and use that as a stepping stone to med school. while some over-lap does exist in the education of both; they are stand alone programs.

khiro

CARICOM-MED
03-25-2009, 12:32 PM
Thank You, I agree.
DC degree should not be a stepping stone....and if you already went through the DC Curriculum, why not go through the MD curriculum from the begining, since you have the background, it will be a partial review for most basic sciences as well.....and you can score higher on the USMLEs ;)

Makes more sense than taking a shortcut, which BTW is NOT allowed any longer....better do it properly !! (Also due to state licensing laws and regulations.)

Cheers ;)

apaajalah
03-25-2009, 04:16 PM
Thank you everybody for your opinions, suggestions and point of view... Maybe we can make a little boundary for this topic that I'll be studying in UK (NOT IN USA), regardless wherever I will work upon graduated. I'd love to attend one of MD school in UK, but since I come from OUTSIDE EU the price will be 10times more expensive than the local students have to pay. I found one chiropractic school with affordable price in UK, that's the reason why I consider chiropractic to study. Another reason is I think that chiropractic is one good 'paid-well' job in UK.

I read a lot of articles stating that chiropractic is no more than just a 'modern voodoo' and something like that. A lot of people underestimate chiropractic and look it one-eye. Have any idea for this ???

CARICOM-MED
03-28-2009, 10:01 AM
hi ;)
Many of my friends are Chiropractors, and even among them "Ideology" and "Philosophy" varies. ;)

Regardless, I think it is a good profession, as long as you practice ethically and the patient comes first !! Most DCs focus mostly on NMS (Neuro-Musculo-Skeletal) Conditions

so, both groups must know some basic medical sciences and clinical sciences ;)
However, not to the same extent as Medical Doctors.
Chiropractors take NBCE Boards similar to NBME Boards in Medicine:
National Board of Chiropractic Examiners - News and Updates (http://www.nbce.org/)
Steps 1-3 Basic Sciences, Clinical & Chiropractic Sciences, and the OSCE Type.

There are two kinds of Chiropractors: the First considered "Straight" Chiros, the second group are the "Mixers"....also, due to their schooling.....Straight chiros attend schools like Sherman College or Life U.....not so much science....more philosophy....."Subluxation" & "Spinal Manipulation" is where it is at !!

The Mixers use PT modalities, nutrition and Acupuncture, and practice more or less like the NDs......"Holistic approach", Mixer schools are more science based: NUHS, Western State, Texas and Northwestern, even Canada's CMCC.



My advice......visit Chiro offices, Chiro colleges and make an informed decision.....Talk among DCs and Non DCs.

azskeptic
03-28-2009, 12:02 PM
I am in London on a business trip. You have an additional problem in that the Uk also has osteopaths, which are not like US osteopaths and they have got themselves into the health scheme and get compensated. They do manipulation and not much else. I don't think chiropractors do or am I wrong?


Thank you everybody for your opinions, suggestions and point of view... Maybe we can make a little boundary for this topic that I'll be studying in UK (NOT IN USA), regardless wherever I will work upon graduated. I'd love to attend one of MD school in UK, but since I come from OUTSIDE EU the price will be 10times more expensive than the local students have to pay. I found one chiropractic school with affordable price in UK, that's the reason why I consider chiropractic to study. Another reason is I think that chiropractic is one good 'paid-well' job in UK.

I read a lot of articles stating that chiropractic is no more than just a 'modern voodoo' and something like that. A lot of people underestimate chiropractic and look it one-eye. Have any idea for this ???

pvttimhall
03-29-2009, 02:04 PM
IT is all hogwash that the first two years of med school and chiro school are the same.. NOT EVEN close... This is like saying a RN gets the same biochem as MDs do.

Do you have the same subjects?? Yes.. is it at the same depth and understanding.. HECK NO.

Also.. chiro boards were a JOKE. Medical boards almost made me have a nervous breakdown.

So.. from someone who has been through both.. and I know many chiros that have.. and I can speak for them.. it is NOT the same.

End of this post..

azskeptic
03-29-2009, 06:30 PM
it is like those brochures that some DC's pass out that shows that DCs have more medical training than MDs in hours of study.


IT is all hogwash that the first two years of med school and chiro school are the same.. NOT EVEN close... This is like saying a RN gets the same biochem as MDs do.

Do you have the same subjects?? Yes.. is it at the same depth and understanding.. HECK NO.

Also.. chiro boards were a JOKE. Medical boards almost made me have a nervous breakdown.

So.. from someone who has been through both.. and I know many chiros that have.. and I can speak for them.. it is NOT the same.

End of this post..

maximillian genossa
03-29-2009, 09:28 PM
Hey!!! I believe in the tooth fairy!! :(



Either way, you don't have nationally recognized MD researchers,etc. It isn't the same level of education and the facilities are no where close. Plus you have some people teaching who believe in fairy tales i.e. conditions you can't find scientifically

pvttimhall
03-29-2009, 11:10 PM
it is like those brochures that some DC's pass out that shows that DCs have more medical training than MDs in hours of study.

AHHHHH.. I hate those things.. It is all propaganda... the chiro school's pump students with all this non-sense.. I can't believe I listened to half of it.

Don't get me wrong.. chiropractic works.. I know it does, I saw it work things everyday..things I can't explain, conditions that nothing else worked for. I could write on here all day about conditions that got better under chiropractic care..

I have two purposes here.. first, to tell all MD (and students) that chiropractic IS effective and does work on many conditions. I know.. I am with you in evidenced based medicine, research, etc. I can't tell you how, why or what sometimes with chiropractic... I only know I saw it work every single day. There are quack chiros out there.. and not all techniques are the same.. but it does work.

Second, to tell chiro students, and hopefuls, that chiropractic will also teach you a lot that is not based on a solid foundation. If you are serious about helping people, do it through medical school. Just because you can prescribe and do surgery, doesn't mean you have to. If you really want to learn about the human body, disease, and how to treat it, medical school is far superior.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2009, 05:05 AM
That sounds pretty objective to me, not a lot of people can do that with this particular subject. ;)




AHHHHH.. I hate those things.. It is all propaganda... the chiro school's pump students with all this non-sense.. I can't believe I listened to half of it.

Don't get me wrong.. chiropractic works.. I know it does, I saw it work things everyday..things I can't explain, conditions that nothing else worked for. I could write on here all day about conditions that got better under chiropractic care..

I have two purposes here.. first, to tell all MD (and students) that chiropractic IS effective and does work on many conditions. I know.. I am with you in evidenced based medicine, research, etc. I can't tell you how, why or what sometimes with chiropractic... I only know I saw it work every single day. There are quack chiros out there.. and not all techniques are the same.. but it does work.

Second, to tell chiro students, and hopefuls, that chiropractic will also teach you a lot that is not based on a solid foundation. If you are serious about helping people, do it through medical school. Just because you can prescribe and do surgery, doesn't mean you have to. If you really want to learn about the human body, disease, and how to treat it, medical school is far superior.

azskeptic
03-30-2009, 04:07 PM
I agree with you. I think DC's should promote the things that can be proven and stay away from the weird claims. Also don't promote the become A Millionaire seminars to unsuspecting people..if you believe you can become a millionaire by applying positive thoughts and 'advertising' you are needing reality checks.


AHHHHH.. I hate those things.. It is all propaganda... the chiro school's pump students with all this non-sense.. I can't believe I listened to half of it.

Don't get me wrong.. chiropractic works.. I know it does, I saw it work things everyday..things I can't explain, conditions that nothing else worked for. I could write on here all day about conditions that got better under chiropractic care..

I have two purposes here.. first, to tell all MD (and students) that chiropractic IS effective and does work on many conditions. I know.. I am with you in evidenced based medicine, research, etc. I can't tell you how, why or what sometimes with chiropractic... I only know I saw it work every single day. There are quack chiros out there.. and not all techniques are the same.. but it does work.

Second, to tell chiro students, and hopefuls, that chiropractic will also teach you a lot that is not based on a solid foundation. If you are serious about helping people, do it through medical school. Just because you can prescribe and do surgery, doesn't mean you have to. If you really want to learn about the human body, disease, and how to treat it, medical school is far superior.

Kronos
03-30-2009, 04:34 PM
if you believe you can become a millionaire by applying positive thoughts and 'advertising' you are needing reality checks.

Ever hear about The Secret? :p Oprah believes it

azskeptic
03-30-2009, 04:38 PM
go ahead and buy it and see if you become a Billionaire?


Ever hear about The Secret? :p Oprah believes it

CARICOM-MED
03-31-2009, 02:55 PM
LOL ;)
Actually there are "Secrets for Step 1 and 2" Books ;)
By Dr. Brown...........I really like that series actually.....lots of good info.....
Amazon.com: USMLE Step 1 Secrets: ****** A. Brown MD, Dave D. Brown DO (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0323054390/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books)


go ahead and buy it and see if you become a Billionaire?







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