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rapid2008
09-19-2008, 06:58 PM
caribbeannetnews.com/news-10794--35-35--Caribbean Net News: US veterinary student sues St Kitts-based school for cruelty to animal

cavalletti
09-19-2008, 07:18 PM
If you can access this site, would you please post a link. I can't get on there.

Closter
09-19-2008, 07:24 PM
Wrong forum.
This post should go under the sub forum

AUCMD2012
09-19-2008, 10:28 PM
denverpost.com/news/ci_1049220

jcu
09-19-2008, 11:27 PM
US veterinary student sues St Kitts-based school for cruelty to animals

Published on Thursday, September 18, 2008 Email To Friend (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:emailthis%28%2210794%22%29;) Print Version (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:printthis%28%2210794%22%29;)
By Tricia N. Henry
Caribbean Net News Staff Reporter
Email: [email protected]

DENVER, USA: St Kitts-based veterinary school, Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine, has once again made headlines for the alleged ill-treatment of its animals, and is now being sued by one of its students.

Denver resident, *snip*, has filed a complaint against the school alleging that deadly surgeries are practiced on the animals at the institution. *snip* also claimed that before she enrolled at Ross, she was told that such surgeries were “optional”. However, following her enrollment, *snip* claimed that she was told that she would fail unless she performed the harmful procedures.

The student is now demanding that – like other veterinary schools – Ross offer a “humane alternative to surgically mutilating and killing healthy animals”.

The complaint was due to be heard Wednesday at the Federal Courthouse in Denver.

In March of this year, Caribbean Net News reported that Ross, which is owned by Chicago-area-based DeVry Inc. (also named in the suit), was suspected of practicing cruel teaching procedures which were being performed on animals at the school.

As a consequence, Caribbean Net News reported that the US-based organisation, People for Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) had sent an urgent letter to Dr Elizabeth Sabin of the American Veterinary Medical Association's (AVMA) Center for Veterinary Education Accreditation, urging her to suspend the accreditation process for the University, which was underway at the time, in the wake of allegations.

Ross students, including some from the US, had contacted PETA about the cruel procedures in which students were often required to operate repeatedly on healthy animals. Students also produced photographs that showed sheep with infected surgical wounds.

In response to PETA's campaign to persuade Ross to switch to more humane teaching methods, Ross announced earlier this year that it would end invasive and deadly surgeries on dogs, but the school has allegedly continued to kill healthy goats, donkeys, and sheep.

PETA members decided to converge on the Federal Courthouse in Denver Wednesday, armed with placards and accompanied by an activist wearing a sheep costume, in support of *snip* and to bring more attention to the matter.

"*snip* decided to become a veterinarian because she wants to alleviate animal suffering, but Ross is trying to force her to cause suffering," said PETA Director of Laboratory Investigations, Kathy Guillermo . "Ross lags far behind more progressive veterinary schools that perform surgery only on animals who will be helped by it."

--

Really? Before you enrolled, Ross told you that harmful procedures were OPTIONAL, but you still decided to matriculate? That makes absolute sense, yes.

canal
09-20-2008, 12:50 AM
good for Jamie for taking legal action.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! First, Ross may have said that the CRUEL procedures were optional, however, she did claim that Ross had threaten to fail her if she did not perform these HORRIFIC procedures. Secondly, why should Ross not be mandated to follow a more humane way of teaching their vet students...like us vet schools?????? Just because they're animals does not mean they don't feel pain....remember, these animals have a nervous symstem also and a brain too!!!!!!! We should be humble and grateful these poor animals did not sign up to be EXPERIMENTS for us. But through them, students can learn to help many more animals...however, we don't have to mutilate and leave them with painful scars or permanent suffering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jcu
09-20-2008, 03:23 AM
You don't get it. Imagine showing up to your interview, and your interviewer tells you that part of the MD curriculum is to perform lobotomies on random locals. Does that sound plausible at all? Would you actually MATRICULATE after being told something so ridiculous? No. Not really. Which is why I find everything about this story so hard to believe.

mstudentx
09-20-2008, 04:15 AM
You don't get it. Imagine showing up to your interview, and your interviewer tells you that part of the MD curriculum is to perform lobotomies on random locals. Does that sound plausible at all? Would you actually MATRICULATE after being told something so ridiculous? No. Not really. Which is why I find everything about this story so hard to believe.

wow, you're really missing the point of the lawsuit. the issue isn't about this one student matriculating (in the face of whatever info she was given). the issue is whether Ross should be permitted to teach in a manner that's not up to modern medical teaching standards.

and that's a really bad analogy you gave.

first, Ross said these surgeries were optional (optional and random are two totally different ideas).

second and more important, from what i've gathered in the article, performing "cruel" surgeries on live animals was (keyword was) done way in the past in US schools but it has been phased out for more humane ways of teaching. meanwhile Ross Vet is stuck in the dark ages as far as Veterinary teaching practices and standards.

have you ever heard of any medical school having lobotomies as part of the curriculum EVER? of course not. but (again from what i gathered in the article) performing "cruel" surgeries was practiced in US Vet schools way back in the day.

a better analogy is if Ross set up a teaching hospital where surgical residents were forced to perform surgeries where anesthesia was not allowed.... you know like how they did it way back when. if Ross did this they would lose accreditation.

jcu
09-20-2008, 05:17 AM
Whoa, wait a second. I am fully aware of the purpose of the law suit. Thanks. But that shouldn't detract from the outlandishness of the student's testimony.

Anyhoo, chew on this - if it was illegal, or if Ross was somehow compromising their accreditation, would they outwardly tell their applicants they would be performing cruel and harmful procedures? That's ridiculous. Now - if the laws are iffy on this, that's an entirely other story. In which case, currently Ross really isn't breaking any rules. So, I'll leave that to the animal rights activists.

And no offense - my analogy is wonderfully valid. Many ... many psych institutions commonly performed lobotomies on their patients, a procedure which, too, has been phased out. When in Rome.


wow, you're really missing the point of the lawsuit. the issue isn't about this one student matriculating (in the face of whatever info she was given). the issue is whether Ross should be permitted to teach in a manner that's not up to modern medical teaching standards.

and that's a really bad analogy you gave.

first, Ross said these surgeries were optional (optional and random are two totally different ideas).

second and more important, from what i've gathered in the article, performing "cruel" surgeries on live animals was (keyword was) done way in the past in US schools but it has been phased out for more humane ways of teaching. meanwhile Ross Vet is stuck in the dark ages as far as Veterinary teaching practices and standards.

have you ever heard of any medical school having lobotomies as part of the curriculum EVER? of course not. but (again from what i gathered in the article) performing "cruel" surgeries was practiced in US Vet schools way back in the day.

a better analogy is if Ross set up a teaching hospital where surgical residents were forced to perform surgeries where anesthesia was not allowed.... you know like how they did it way back when. if Ross did this they would lose accreditation.

butterflymd
09-20-2008, 05:42 AM
she was probably failing out and decided to blow the whistle.

Closter
09-20-2008, 09:19 AM
wow, I got warned for this?
THIS IS THE WRONG FORUM, THIS IS ROSS UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, NOT VET MEDICINE.

THERE IS A VET FORUM ON VALUE MD, USE IT!

thezohan
09-20-2008, 09:20 AM
good for Jamie for taking legal action.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! First, Ross may have said that the CRUEL procedures were optional, however, she did claim that Ross had threaten to fail her if she did not perform these HORRIFIC procedures. Secondly, why should Ross not be mandated to follow a more humane way of teaching their vet students...like us vet schools?????? Just because they're animals does not mean they don't feel pain....remember, these animals have a nervous symstem also and a brain too!!!!!!! We should be humble and grateful these poor animals did not sign up to be EXPERIMENTS for us. But through them, students can learn to help many more animals...however, we don't have to mutilate and leave them with painful scars or permanent suffering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously?!

First of all PETA is involved. PETA is a near-militant organization that loves being on the warpath. To end terrorism we should just say that al-qeiday bombs chicken embassies and let PETA handle the rest. (it also performs the most animal-euthanasia procedures in the US.)

Secondly, your in vet school to learn how to help animals. If you thought it was all puppy dogs and lollipops, you should have just adopted a stray cat. Get over yourself and learn how to be a good vet. To me it sounds like someone is just peeved at RossSKN and trying to get even, not that they are worried about the animals. If it was that horrific, it would have come to light a long time ago.

rokshana
09-20-2008, 09:33 AM
well she is probably not going to get that DVM degree anyway...public whistle blowers, even if they are in the right, rarely fare well...

Schnabel
09-20-2008, 01:51 PM
Every country has protocols which dictate the conditions in which an animal can be used as teaching tools. Dogs and cats seem to fall under special provisions because of the sentimental value given by the average citizen as compared to a rat, which by the way is not even considered an animal according to the definition of "animal" by the research community. No one here can say that what Ross is doing is not done in the U.S. just google "Animal use by the U.S. military," or something similar. Perfectly healthy animals are used for various procedures, but, all the procedures are done under strict, humane, agreed upon conditions all over the world. I can't say that Ross is following protocol because I don't know. Ross being one of the Top foreign medical schools would not jeopardize accreditation by breaking protocol.

Schnabel
09-20-2008, 01:54 PM
By the way PETA has always been considered extremist on pretty much everything they do so I would always look at any evidence they show the public with a little doubt.

canal
09-20-2008, 02:24 PM
re: thezohan

SERIOUSLY????!!!

I am not here to defend PETA!!! And no, I don't think that entering vet schools mean its all "puppy dogs and lollipops" either!!!! However, as a vet or med students, you still have to have some level of CONSCIENCE!!!!!!! Read my last post again if you don't get the point, its about INTEGRITY and CONSCIENCE. We are not living in the dark ages anymore. And it shouldn't matter if PETA or the military uses practices that are hypocritical or inhumane, that doesn't justify any sort of cruel practice. As med students, you learn on CADAVERS, as interns, you practice on SICK patients with the intent of making them better....these procedures are not performed on healthy humans. Unfortunately, animals are not afforded rights that humans have nor can they speak for themselves.
" THE GREATNESS OF A NATION AND ITS MORAL PROGRESS CAN BE JUDGED BY THE WAY ITS ANIMALS ARE TREATED" -GANDHI

Schnabel
09-20-2008, 10:10 PM
There are critics on the topic of animal use for research and training. But I don't see or anyone of them volunteering to get medications or procedures tested on them before they are done on the general population. Yes we are students of medicine but that does not mean we have to agree with everything extremists say and do.

Synophrys
09-21-2008, 06:51 PM
I've heard that medical residents kill more people than the mafia. Whats the big deal? How come we don't "get" to do dangerous surgeries on healthy humans at the Med School?

I hate PETA! They firebombed my instructors house in Santa Cruz cause he does cancer research with mice. Luckily he and his family made it out safely, but their bird however did not... great going PETA, thats so ethical.

I was working at the Long Marine Laboratory when PETA staged a protest there for the Monarch Butterfly. They were trying to get people to stop "exploiting" the nesting grounds at Natural Bridges state park. And by "exploiting" they meant "stop using the beach and walking on the nature trails maintained by the state of California." PETA, stop shutting down my state parks!

Thanks to PETA, I am only allowed to hunt at certain times of the year! Instead of limiting the fitness of the wildlife, I now have to pay some farmer for my meat. All they did was increase the amount of people buying meat from cattle ranches (which they say is unethical).

The problem with these whistle blowers, such as the one who started the court case, they do not think about the long term implications. They are selfish and can only see what is going on right now. Sure, a few animals die, but how many lives will be saved down the road?

Ross had every right to fail students for not completing the surgeries. Think about how ethical it would be for an inexperienced surgeon to perform a dangerous surgery on a person. I wouldn't want to be their first, much like I wouldn't want my pet to be that persons first. If you cannot learn how to perform your surgeries, you should not be granted a degree that says you are competent to do so.

thezohan
09-21-2008, 09:34 PM
I hate PETA! They firebombed my instructors house in Santa Cruz cause he does cancer research with mice. Luckily he and his family made it out safely, but their bird however did not... great going PETA, thats so ethical.


Lol, I can just see the foxnews headline A MILITANT PETA FIREBOMBS PET CANARY


PROGRESS CAN BE JUDGED BY THE WAY ITS ANIMALS ARE TREATED" -GANDHI

My posts are not meant to be personal attacks, please don't take them that way. Also, Gandhi had a thing for sleeping with naked teenage girls to "test himself" so I've always been cautious around his pithy words of wisdom.

cavalletti
09-22-2008, 09:15 AM
If Ross is forced to use more humane methods on all animals than the exercise was worth while.

Madyson
09-26-2008, 12:06 AM
sorry, plz ignore

cavalletti
09-26-2008, 08:15 AM
Is Peta picking up the cost?







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