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Daisy500
01-20-2008, 12:43 PM
Hi, can anyone please help me with this. If you get expelled from a chiropractic school for bad grades, do you know if you can still transfer to another chiropractic school? Thanks so much.

khiro
01-21-2008, 03:54 PM
This would be difficult to do unless you can explain the reason(s) for your academic performance. That said, I believe it depends on where you are now and what school you have in mind, let me explain. When I was in C.C. 20+ years ago there were several of our original classmates with "rough" grades that transferred to a school near Atlanta. In Texas they were in danger of be expelled but made it through the school in Georgia just fine and went on to be licensed. I am not going to try and explain the turn-a-round in grades, just that I know it happened. A bigger issue might be: should you be going into chiropractic at all? I don't know your circumstances, and everyone is different. I can tell you about the industry, but will leave it up to you to ask the questions.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Daisy500
03-21-2008, 06:18 PM
Hey Khiro...just wanted to say Happy Easter! Hope you are doing well.:)

StodeMD
06-22-2008, 10:57 AM
I am finishing 2nd year in a reputable Carib Med school, about to go to U.S. for clinical rotations.

I agree with Khiro, do not go to Chiro school. I've been a chiropractor for 20 years, it was great, fun, rewarding, then horrible, business failure as reimbursement is gone, and I hate selling stuff people dont' need. but the profession is not going in the right direction, and it's flooded, very low incomes.

I'm happy to share more if anyone wants to know.

PhutureMD
06-29-2008, 01:34 AM
Hey fotl Im currently a tri 5 DC student and thinking of going to MUA. What are your thougths to me about this. Like positives and negatives.
Thanks

StodeMD
06-29-2008, 05:52 AM
PhutureMD,
I would switch. The reality of Chiro practice is not what it used to be, it's very selling oriented. It's no fun, and very hard to succeed. It's hard to beleive Chiro schools can conscientiously pump out students the way they do.

But just money wise, it's fairly near the same cost, but you'll come out with an MD degree which is very different than DC, many going bankrupt, others working weekends at some mall for 40K/year, if they're lucky.

IT may seem like a longer road, but I'd say it's well worth it. Chiro was good for me up until about 10 years ago, then 7 years of difficulty, then 3 years of abject failure. I should have done this abotu 10 years ago.

Best of luck.

longchode
07-01-2008, 08:22 AM
You must be an idiot if you got expelled from Chiropractic School. Why would you assume you would do any better in a Medical School?

StodeMD
07-01-2008, 11:19 AM
The answer is NO.

khiro
07-01-2008, 12:57 PM
no one likes to admit failure; change is difficult. sometimes the failure is our fault; sometimes it is uncontrollable. have you ever hydroplaned on a highway? its still a wreck even though you did all you could. chiropractic will wreck your economic future unless you are extremely fortunate to have some pluses in your corner. my roomate in chiro school bought his dad's practice for a song; also and this is most important, he bought his highway frontage for a song. now my friend has a fair practice but a huge potential profit b/c of the real estate. see what i mean. if you have the benefit of something similar then its a big maybe to continue; otherwise i would bail out and go md; or any other job. cut your losses and move on. that's harsh i know, and i didnt do it 24 yrs ago, so here i am telling you what is best. good luck. khiro

kevg
07-01-2008, 01:31 PM
I am a chiropractor in active practice looking to make the jump yo md. My only problem is that chiropractic college ate up all my student loans. Is there any other alternative funding?

StodeMD
07-02-2008, 06:09 AM
Only Ross and SGU, and maybe AUC? have federal funding. The rest don't but they have loan programs that are not horrible. They are around 8% interest. Teh market has been very hard on all lenders lately, and we've lost, then gained several. These loans are based on your credit score, not your income history. You have to have pretty good credit, or have a very good cosigner. There's also this school Davenport, who will allow you to lend federally guaranteed loans (much better) up to about 10K per term, which can make it all possible. It's a univesity with online degrees, very legit., but you do have to do the degree, generall an mba, while in med school. I believe you do 1 class at a time, and it takes an average of about 10 hours a week.

Hope that helps.

kevg
07-03-2008, 08:19 AM
Fotl,
Can you tell me what the named of the school in Davenport is? How do you do it? Pay for it? Federal Loans? Or private loans?

StodeMD
07-04-2008, 05:46 AM
It is called Davenport University. I believe the funding they have is Stafford type. Here's a link for their website.

Hope this helps.

Davenport University > Microsites > Davenport, Medical Schools Partnership (http://www.davenport.edu/Default.aspx?tabid=558#top)

Chopdoc
07-24-2008, 02:21 PM
Yes there is alternative, private, funding. You need to talk to the financial aid offices at the schools you are considering applying to. They will fill you in on the possibilities.

With that said, I went to med school with several chiropractors, and one of my good MD friends was a chiropractor. According to them, although people like to draw parallels between the fields, they are in fact extremely different. None of the chiropractors I knew in med school graduated by the way. But of course, that's a very isolated view.

Personally, I would highly recommend going after it if you really want it. I would really look at it more like starting over than "making the jump". It isn't a lateral move IMHO.

If you really have some core beliefs in manipulative therapies, you might consider DO school. Though they still aren't as widely accepted outside the US, in the US they work just as MDs do. In addition, it's still easier to get into than MD programs in general. Just a thought.

I understand the situation with chiropractors. The one that I know well actually makes is money in the winter driving a snow plow.

As for my direct knowledge of chiropractic I can only relate one story. When I was a med student I had the opportunity to sit in on a class at a chiropractic school that shall remain nameless. I was invited to. The professor began with "As chiropractors, we can cure endometriosis." I walked out and never went back.

I try to remain open minded, but sometimes it's difficult....that was one of those times.

longchode
07-25-2008, 09:27 AM
[quote=Chopdoc;872926]As chiropractors, we can cure endometriosis." I walked out and never went back.
[quote]
I would like to know which school and class you were in... its to bad a school and teacher like that puts a sour taste in your mouth. We are not all like that. I don't claim crap like that, I know of a few of my class mates that would and do, but they are few and far. Snow Plow, maybe he just likes driving one... Its hard starting out in chiropractic, but if your good at what you do the money to survive comes.

StodeMD
07-25-2008, 09:46 AM
I've been a DC for 18 years, most DCs' have to do side work to survive, undisputable fact. Wether it's multi level marketing, weekend mall shows, or actual jobs.

Simple economic fact is Chiro degreee costs about the same as MD degree, and has the earning power of abotu 1/5th and declining. On top of that are many ethical issues and pressure of "patient control" to maintain a succesful chiropractic practice. And you have to be good at convincing people to refer their whole family and friends in for care, wether they need it or not. Ok, Philosophy, but that's not flying with me. IF it floats your boat, then you may be able to make it, maybe.

Check out this link from dept. of labor.

Chiropractors (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos071.htm)

longchode
07-25-2008, 02:26 PM
I've been a DC for 18 years, most DCs' have to do side work to survive, undisputable fact. Wether it's multi level marketing, weekend mall shows, or actual jobs.

Simple economic fact is Chiro degreee costs about the same as MD degree, and has the earning power of abotu 1/5th and declining. On top of that are many ethical issues and pressure of "patient control" to maintain a succesful chiropractic practice. And you have to be good at convincing people to refer their whole family and friends in for care, wether they need it or not. Ok, Philosophy, but that's not flying with me. IF it floats your boat, then you may be able to make it, maybe.


I'm not sure where you are located, but none of the chiro's around here hold down 2 jobs or are struggling. Your link really didn't explain all the much, to me it reads its a favorable job and has a good outlook for the future. I suppose value md is a bad location to try to support chiropractors in, its full of MD wanna be's that can't get into a real school in the states.

StodeMD
07-26-2008, 06:33 AM
I had no idea how positive sounding that Dept of Labor page is.

wow, very different from my experience.

As far as "wanna be's", yes, most Chiro posts here are about wanting to change to medicine, or wether to choose medical or chiropractic education, not about being a chiropractor.

I think wannabe is insulting and name calling, pretty juvenile if you want to resort to it. I changed because I was sick of selling. I guess it works for some, or some don't even think of it as selling, it just is, to them.

And it must vary by area, because my whole state was dying. It was interesting to see that mean income was 103K in 2005, according to DC magazine, and yet 63K roughly, according to DOL in 2006.

longchode
07-26-2008, 07:57 AM
I think wannabe is insulting and name calling, pretty juvenile if you want to resort to it. mean income was 103K in 2005, according to DC magazine, and yet 63K roughly, according to DOL in 2006.

There is a big diff when you have the gov reporting the income off of tax returns vs a person filling out a survey...

Wannabe was for those students that no nothing of a chiropractor nor are able to stand a chance getting into school in the states. Most of them know they are, some are to delusional to figure it out. My little brother put all his eggs in one basket for med school and didn't get in. So he took the next easy route and stated AUC. He knows he missed the boat, and is happy with how it turned out. Some of his fellow class mates brag that the carriabean was their first choice, saying they choose this over the state school they got into and he rips them down for bragging about something that just isn't true for 99% of the kids in these schools.

Yes diff areas are doing better then others. BCBS just gave us a 2% raise across the board and our other major PPO is set to rise 5% in January. Big thing in Nebraska is we (the Chiro's) own the PPO... Thats right the chiro's own the BCBS PPO and set our fees with BCBS and we control the other Major PPO. We are the first in the nation to do so with success.

I know that in Iowa, just a state away, they are getting screwed over, my buddy that graduated with me and we both started up from scratch is making 25-35 a visit, I make from 65-100 a visit on average. And mine is set to rise based on our schedule with our PPO's.

Chopdoc
07-26-2008, 11:05 AM
I won't name the chiropractic school. Sorry. And yes, I know that many chiropractors do not make such outlandish claims. There are simply different schools of thought in that regard within the field. That is well known.

As for the whole Caribbean school thing. More and more students are actually making it their first choice.

When I went there, I was wait-listed for University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. I could have gone the following year. I went to AUC instead since they accepted me for that year, that was in 1995, and I have no regrets.

One of my classmates at AUC was a Harvard grad. When I asked why he went there he simply said "Are you kidding?" and pointed to the beach.

The simple truth is, those schools are not the third rate schools they once were. In many cases they are actually well regarded. I know that many of my peers from AUC are not just practicing doctors, but are very accomplished in their fields.

I don't have to defend the schools really. The reality speaks for itself.

There are still third rate fly-by-night schools though. Hard to believe they get students but by all accounts they fill up.

khiro
08-11-2008, 02:04 PM
in my area, i dont know of any chiros that have HAD to get 2 jobs to make ends meet. i do know of one with 26 yrs in that sold his practice to do something in Jacksonville totally unrelated to chiro. b/c of his feeling of "inadequate growth" in the business.

while i am thankful to be practicing, i am still preparing to leave; but i have been since the early 1990s so that is nothing new. i think the difference b/t mds and dcs is that most mds should have an easier time saving money for retirement or investments. there is more to practice than just making a grand statement of wealth (yes, most pts will see you as wealthy, or at least rich). the local do (who is doing very well since he started as a nurse) owns a trailer park! and not an "up scale" one, just your ordinary southern trailer park.

a very successful famdoc owns a small marina. a pulmonary guy (grad from SGU) owns commercial buildings. it goes on and on.

i have always said that i would never do chiro just to make a living. it has to pay my retirement contribution (minimum of 40k per year, which is the same as most good company retirement benefit) on top of a decent salary, office overhead, and then the dreaded T word that obama feels i haven't paid enough of; taxes.

i feel that for the money and time invested, the md degree is a much better bargain for those truly interested in the profession of dealing with the illnesses of the human race. therefore, i have never recommended that any young person choose chiropractic for a vocation.

for those dcs who are fortunate to be in a "good reimbursement state" i would pass some advice given to me by a cattleman. "when times are bad, save your money; when times are good, save more money".

and chopdoc...i concur that dcs and mds are not laterally degrees (educationally or professionally). chiropractic for the most part, cannot differentiate itself (lexus) enough from medicine to stand alone. that leaves a "low-cost" (wal-mart approach) which will put revenues into a tail-spin. the dc degree most closely aligns itself to the optometric degree (academically) but fails in the differentiation. the local md rarely get involved in the diseases of the eye but routinely gets into the diseases of the spine and joint. just some observations.

kevg
10-18-2008, 09:08 AM
I have practiced for 8 years and it's still a pretty hard living to make. I have a decent practice gross a decent amount , but still rely a 3rd party reimbursement which amounts to "I get paid whenever the hell they feel like cutting a check"! Was on staff at a local hospital but only got called in to consult 3 times in 2 years! MD vs. DC, no comparison. As different as night and day! Reimbursement is just as different! Squeezing the co-pay out of your patient is just as difficult. They feel why should they be charged their co-pa? They have insurance! Rough game this chiro profession!

vnchboy
12-12-2008, 03:24 PM
I am finishing 2nd year in a reputable Carib Med school, about to go to U.S. for clinical rotations.

I agree with Khiro, do not go to Chiro school. I've been a chiropractor for 20 years, it was great, fun, rewarding, then horrible, business failure as reimbursement is gone, and I hate selling stuff people dont' need. but the profession is not going in the right direction, and it's flooded, very low incomes.

I'm happy to share more if anyone wants to know.
can you tell me which caribbean school are u going to and which chiropractic school did u go to because i just finished chiropractic school







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