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GEM29
11-01-2007, 10:34 AM
What's currently going on with the SCIMD?

Does St. christopher's college of med./MUA Belize still exist ?

TAFKA
11-10-2007, 05:27 PM
I am a graduate of SCIMD. I am currently completing residency in an extremely competitive medical discipline at a well respected US hospital (multiple listings in US News & World Report's list of Top 50 Hospitals). My scores on the USMLE steps 1, 2, and 3 were 99, 87, and 98, respectively. I published in both US and British peer-reviewed journals during med school. SCIMD was my second med school (I transferred from a Caribbean school). The quality of education (which is often attacked on this website by individuals never enrolled at the school) was excellent. I wasn't one of those nurses-turned-doctor who already knew everything going into med school and I attribute my success to the education I got at SCIMD. As for the alleged problems with accreditation and oversight, SCIMD in the UK is one of two legitimate colleges of medicine within a larger Senegalese university system. The only problems I encountered obtaining a residency position, ECFMG certification, or training license were those encountered by all foreign medical graduates: higher application fees, longer delays in paperwork, and fewer interview offers than my counterparts who graduated from American medical schools. What I hear UNOFFICIALLY from current students is that very impressive strides have recently been made by the current administration to undo some of the damage that was done to the college's reputation by the former administration. Good luck to anyone considering this or any other foreign medical school; you'll have to be a little sharper, harder working, more professional, and more personable than graduates of American medical schools with similar (or even worse) stats to beat them out for residency positions.

teratos
11-10-2007, 07:06 PM
I don't know that the quality of education ever came into question. If it did, it wasn't a major point of contention. The issue was about the legitimacy of the charter under which it was established, and the ability of grads to practice in the states because of those issues.

The real problem was the cheerleaders that came on the forum making the school seem like the greatest thing since sliced bread. They told lies, and people caught them in them again and again. They did more to harm the schools reputation than anyone. Just to put that out there. G

JHarris
11-11-2007, 05:44 PM
I am a graduate of SCIMD. I am currently completing residency in an extremely competitive medical discipline at a well respected US hospital (multiple listings in US News & World Report's list of Top 50 Hospitals). My scores on the USMLE steps 1, 2, and 3 were 99, 87, and 98, respectively. I published in both US and British peer-reviewed journals during med school. SCIMD was my second med school (I transferred from a Caribbean school). The quality of education (which is often attacked on this website by individuals never enrolled at the school) was excellent. I wasn't one of those nurses-turned-doctor who already knew everything going into med school and I attribute my success to the education I got at SCIMD. As for the alleged problems with accreditation and oversight, SCIMD in the UK is one of two legitimate colleges of medicine within a larger Senegalese university system. The only problems I encountered obtaining a residency position, ECFMG certification, or training license were those encountered by all foreign medical graduates: higher application fees, longer delays in paperwork, and fewer interview offers than my counterparts who graduated from American medical schools. What I hear UNOFFICIALLY from current students is that very impressive strides have recently been made by the current administration to undo some of the damage that was done to the college's reputation by the former administration. Good luck to anyone considering this or any other foreign medical school; you'll have to be a little sharper, harder working, more professional, and more personable than graduates of American medical schools with similar (or even worse) stats to beat them out for residency positions.

I get it......TAFKA is The Artist Formerly Known as ........

great success story bro!! Total props and love for you! I would so rather spend my basic science in London like you did. and your scores ROCK.

I am very impressed with the residency you are doing. .

PROPS dude!

GEM29
11-11-2007, 07:33 PM
Can St. Chris grads get licensure in New York ? and New Jersey?

TAFKA
11-11-2007, 08:29 PM
great success story bro!! Total props and love for you! I would so rather spend my basic science in London like you did. and your scores ROCK.
Dude, why hide your residency? That would be an inspiration to guys like me. I want to do something similar and you are a role model.Thanks. I'm actually a second year resident, but residency is 5 years, not 4... I'll graduate in 2011. I used the word "completing" to mean "in the process of ticking requirements off my checklist," not to imply that I would be done soon. It's complicated why I feel the need for the cloak and dagger, but there are a number of VMD users who have a great deal of animosity for St. Chris and who think an attack on one of its graduates equates to an attack on the school...


Can St. Chris grads get licensure in New York ? and New Jersey?It's actually hard to know the answers to these questions because many states evaluate licensure applicants on a case-by-case basis and we are a relatively young school who have not had applicants apply to all states. However, that being said, there is certainly no guarantee that graduates of St. Chris would be granted a license in either of the states about which you're asking... at this time, I would recommend either attending a school about which these questions have been definitively answered or waiting until they have been definitively answered about this school. There are a number of states in which St. Chris has fully licensed graduates practicing (I'd suggest identifying these states yourself by contacting the college directly), and a few states in which applicants have been denied (California and Texas come to mind). Good luck.

AUCMD2006
11-12-2007, 01:02 AM
Can St. Chris grads get licensure in New York ? and New Jersey?


new york probably yes, new jersey probably no because they have a charter clause where basic sc i has to be done in country of charter.

and tafka congrats on making through 1st year..after learning more about yoru specialty the theoretical writen part is rough all the residents here get stressed around the time of competency exams....

emt036
11-12-2007, 09:45 AM
Actually NY requires medical schools to be recognized by the country where they are located (NYS Medicine Requirements (http://www.op.nysed.gov/medlic.htm)), so SCIMD grads would not be eligible.

azskeptic
11-12-2007, 10:00 AM
NWAnews.com :: Northwest Arkansas' News Source (http://www.nwanews.com/adg/National/207455/print/)

JHarris
11-12-2007, 06:54 PM
NWAnews.com :: Northwest Arkansas' News Source (http://www.nwanews.com/adg/National/207455/print/)


wow, that's pretty depressing to think that a person can graduate and not be allowed to work.
but who needs arkansas. Other than my main man Clinton, nothing good ever came out of arkansas ( that and John Daly went to undergrad there at the U)

hey azskeptic, I was reading of your battles on wikipedia with a person called pareleluni and and all of his sock puppets like azrealist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_ParalelUni)( over this this particular school )
that was awesome but is there any chance that you are biased against this school?

I mean TAFKA is in a red hot residency at a red hot program so SCIDMAR can't be a ll bad right, if you are only banned in arkansas?

azskeptic
11-12-2007, 08:28 PM
nah, just reporting what I find. if there are positive articles post them also. congrats on hot residency to tafka. azskeptic


wow, that's pretty depressing to think that a person can graduate and not be allowed to work.
but who needs arkansas. Other than my main man Clinton, nothing good ever came out of arkansas ( that and John Daly went to undergrad there at the U)

hey azskeptic, I was reading of your battles on wikipedia with a person called pareleluni and and all of his sock puppets like azrealist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_ParalelUni)( over this this particular school )
that was awesome but is there any chance that you are biased against this school?

I mean TAFKA is in a red hot residency at a red hot program so SCIDMAR can't be a ll bad right, if you are only banned in arkansas?

Anthony Thomasson
11-13-2007, 01:45 PM
My congrats as well on your continued success! Keep up the good work! You're obviously the type of person that can overcome adversity. I too have heard from reliable sources that St. Chris had taken out all the trash, and is now being operated soley by the Senegalese (stateside as well) and that issues are quietly and methodically being taken care of one at a time. Thats really awesome for the SCIMD students and graduates. I wish you all clear skies from now on! God knows you deserve it! Best of luck.

CaptainMidnight
11-14-2007, 02:22 PM
Don't believe anything TAFKA is saying. As a current student things are just as screwed up at St. Chris as they have always been. This should be obvious based on the fact that they don't have a DfES listing for the school in the UK. Without this they can't get visas for their students or work permits for their professors in the UK. The only way St. Chris students can stay in the UK is if they are declaring themselves as travelers and get a travel visa, but it is against the law in the UK to be a student and declare yourself as a traveler to get a visa.

The school is still listed on multiple states banned schools rosters, it has no loans whatsoever for its student, and has yet to be approved by any states that has a formal approval process (NY, FL, CA, etc...), all good indicators that things are not going well. The last batch fo students seeking residency didn't have much luck (considering SCIMD's reputation) and most had to scramble (and even that wasn't successful for most).

Also consider that the Senegal operations consist of 2 individuals (1 secretary and 1 dean), the US operations consist of 3 people (1 dean and 2 secretaries), and the UK operations a grand total of 7 (1 dean/professor, 5 professors, 1 secretary).

JHarris
11-14-2007, 06:20 PM
yes but the school must be good if it's still operating in England.

and besides TAFKA got a great residency so the school surely is OK.

stick it out bro. it will all work out

Anthony Thomasson
11-14-2007, 07:29 PM
Don't believe anything TAFKA is saying. As a current student things are just as screwed up at St. Chris as they have always been. This should be obvious based on the fact that they don't have a DfES listing for the school in the UK. Without this they can't get visas for their students or work permits for their professors in the UK. The only way St. Chris students can stay in the UK is if they are declaring themselves as travelers and get a travel visa, but it is against the law in the UK to be a student and declare yourself as a traveler to get a visa.

The school is still listed on multiple states banned schools rosters, it has no loans whatsoever for its student, and has yet to be approved by any states that has a formal approval process (NY, FL, CA, etc...), all good indicators that things are not going well. The last batch fo students seeking residency didn't have much luck (considering SCIMD's reputation) and most had to scramble (and even that wasn't successful for most).

Also consider that the Senegal operations consist of 2 individuals (1 secretary and 1 dean), the US operations consist of 3 people (1 dean and 2 secretaries), and the UK operations a grand total of 7 (1 dean/professor, 5 professors, 1 secretary).

Hmmmm...Something smells, shall we say...unusual! While I can't refute much of your information, I can add a few things: I met several residents/graduates while doing rotations and they were some of the best in terms of foundation knowledge and taking the time to teach students and were pleasant people. I also know of SCIMD students who matched this past year and the year before and only two failed to match that I am aware of: One for the reason he didn't cast a wide enough net so to speak and too narrowly limited himself in terms of state and programs, and the other person is a unknown.

I can also say that the school, to their credit, has been turning down new students and is not currently recruiting new students, until certain things get worked out like the DFES and other issues - as they don't want to inadvertently cause harm to any students. This is a refreshing stance in the world of the offshore schools!

I agree with you on at least one point - No state recognition is a bad thing and should lead people to look elsewhere for the time being - the point of the original posts of this thread, was that things were slowly turning around for the school and its graduates (even if not at the speed you would prefer).

Now, having said the above, perhaps you can tell us of the other names you use on this forum, eh? (as a long time observer, but infrequent poster - I have some ideas)

All of a sudden, an expert appears, a "current student", out of nowhere, apparently with an axe to grind AND this is your very first post!!!??? You're a newbie that is just too hard to believe...and maybe even to give credence to.

As the disgruntled and "current student" you are I would suggest you look into the following schools for transfer (all have NY or Cali. approval or both) as other SCIMD students have done who were not happy: Ross, AUA, St. Matthews, MUA Nevis, AUC, St. Georges, SABA

Oh, and in my humble opinion, you have to be a real freak, not to hope, wish and pray these guys have some good success after what they have been through!

grobble
11-14-2007, 07:39 PM
I hope things are improving. I have worked with a couple of St. Chris' students on rotations and they have all been good students. I worked with a 1st year resident from St. Chris' also and she was really sharp. It's too bad quality students are getting screwed around by the school it appears. I do have to say that none of them had good things to say about the school admin, especially the resident.

TAFKA
11-14-2007, 11:27 PM
I do have to say that none of them had good things to say about the school admin, especially the resident.I have good things to say about both the new and old admin... the old ones saw to it that we got a solid education, and the new ones are doing their best to rebuild slowly but surely (i wasn't aware that they are turning down applicants, but i applaud that they are prioritizing a solid future ahead of a shaky present)... some of you will certainly bristle at the notion of defending the administrators (particularly the former administrators), but, like everything else in life, this wasn't a clear cut issue with good guys and bad guys... it involved regular people who were doing both good and bad things... but given the choice, i'd rather be a strong resident from a weak medical college than a weak resident from a strong medical college.

AUCMD2006
11-15-2007, 03:10 AM
yes but the school must be good if it's still operating in England.

and besides TAFKA got a great residency so the school surely is OK.

stick it out bro. it will all work out

not really, its operating as a business not a college in england so it has no checks and balances that brittish med schools have. not that our carib schools have checks and balances but that is what the state approvals come in handy

a few students getting a good residency is also not indicative of a Ok school just that he is either very bright, he studied for the boards for 2 years..hehe or that there is a solid education. what measures an OK school in offshore schools are track record, longstanding residency placement in wide variety of fields not just a diamong here and there, state approvals that don't limit where you work or that you can at least throw in the face of burocrats at the licensing board

Oelin
11-15-2007, 11:30 AM
Let's not forget that the school has completely changed its administration/leadership 3 times in the last two years, as well as moving it's UK and US offices 3 times in conjunction with the new administrations (and each time the UK facilities have moved it has been into a smaller and more rundown building than the previous one).

Also that its first administration went into legal receivership and some students are still having trouble getting records because the current st. chris administration doesnt want to take responsibility. As well as the facts that all basic science labs (histo, neuro, etc) are done in conjunction with a 4 year college in the UK now and not at a proper medical college such as was done before and there is absolutely no clinical experience during the basic sciences now so students will be throughly unprepared for clerkships

Anthony Thomasson
11-15-2007, 01:49 PM
Let's not forget that the school has completely changed its administration/leadership 3 times in the last two years, as well as moving it's UK and US offices 3 times in conjunction with the new administrations (and each time the UK facilities have moved it has been into a smaller and more rundown building than the previous one).

Also that its first administration went into legal receivership and some students are still having trouble getting records because the current st. chris administration doesnt want to take responsibility. As well as the facts that all basic science labs (histo, neuro, etc) are done in conjunction with a 4 year college in the UK now and not at a proper medical college such as was done before and there is absolutely no clinical experience during the basic sciences now so students will be throughly unprepared for clerkships

So you just got banned, and you started another account?

Another expert just appears with an axe to grind?! Congrats on your "first post" here on VMD. A real hearty welcome (back!) :roll:

JHarris
11-16-2007, 10:17 AM
So you just got banned, and you started another account?

Another expert just appears with an axe to grind?! Congrats on your "first post" here on VMD. A real hearty welcome (back!) :roll:


but the fact remains that this school is still operating in London. It is still turning out graduates that get top residencies, like TAFKA did, and it's still a very good alternative to sweating it out on a bug-infested Hurricane prone island in the Caribbean.
If I need to go foreign, which hopefull I won't when my contacts pull some strings, but whatever, I'd much rather go to school in England than a place like st kitts or Dominica!

AUCMD2006
11-16-2007, 07:57 PM
but the fact remains that this school is still operating in London. It is still turning out graduates that get top residencies, like TAFKA did, and it's still a very good alternative to sweating it out on a bug-infested Hurricane prone island in the Caribbean.
If I need to go foreign, which hopefull I won't when my contacts pull some strings, but whatever, I'd much rather go to school in England than a place like st kitts or Dominica!


top residencies are tough to get for US grads, they are tougher to get for us making competitive matches anomalies rather than the norm. if you want a highly competitive residency like derm ortho opthto plastics then foreign schools will likely not get you there. for competitive residencies like ER, rads, surgery a foreign school may get you there with great board scores and for obgyn, im, fp, peds, psych then a foreign school is a good alternative to reaching your goals

as for going to a 'brittish' school that will only impress your friends and people who don;t really matter in your carreer. those who can make or break your professional development either keep up with what is going on and know the schools that have track records or they could care less lump us all in the same pile and throw the applications out so telling a PD at an interview that you went to SC iba mar Diop in england will sound just as stupid as the interviewee who said he went to ross university in new york and was asked follow up questions on how dominica was...quite funny actually

SC was a disaster and a school that should have been avoided at all costs. since the new management took over it seems like they are hading in a much better direction and may turn the corner and be a place to look at after failing to get in schools with long track records. when SC gets state approvals it will ve a very very good place to attend because living in england sounds much nicer than living on any of our islands but until then it should remain very low on the list of people with options to attend other schools

so first look at US MD/DO schools then i would look at "real" foreign schools that take US students in israel, ireland, australia then the schols with cali approval, then schools with new york, then reasses my qualifications and try again from the top and if all else fails start down further in the list

also tafkas residency is competitive and i know i don't have the scores for it but by no means is it the be all and end all. it is a competitive residency at a community hospital and very doable with great board scores...definitely within reach, just look at match lists from other schools for rads, er, surgery.

not trying to negate the accomplishement but when you are a pre med things are not in good perspective from down there...like the fact that living in england for 2 years seems to stand out more to you than things that really matter and will affect your 40 years in practice

good luck man being post call sucks..slept during the day now i can't sleep

teratos
11-17-2007, 04:27 AM
but the fact remains that this school is still operating in London. It is still turning out graduates that get top residencies, like TAFKA did, and it's still a very good alternative to sweating it out on a bug-infested Hurricane prone island in the Caribbean.
If I need to go foreign, which hopefull I won't when my contacts pull some strings, but whatever, I'd much rather go to school in England than a place like st kitts or Dominica!

One or two anecdotal reports of good residencies doesn't translate into a safe bet for you. Better to have memories of lots of mosquito bites, than have an MD you can't use.

TAFKA did exceedingly well on all three steps on the boards, and was published. This is less a reflection of the quality of education, and more an indicator that he worked very hard, and has a lot of baseline smarts. This is like a weight loss commercial. There should be a disclaimer "Results are not typical"

It does seem that SCIMD is on the right track, but you can't ignore the problems they have had. Nobody should recommend a school that hasn't proven itself again and again. SCIMD's problems are far too recent to say this school has a good track record. It is one to watch. If it succeeds, the idea is great. A school chartered in one country holding classes in a country that is far nicer to live in. G

JHarris
11-17-2007, 01:09 PM
One or two anecdotal reports of good residencies doesn't translate into a safe bet for you. Better to have memories of lots of mosquito bites, than have an MD you can't use.

TAFKA did exceedingly well on all three steps on the boards, and was published. This is less a reflection of the quality of education, and more an indicator that he worked very hard, and has a lot of baseline smarts. This is like a weight loss commercial. There should be a disclaimer "Results are not typical"

It does seem that SCIMD is on the right track, but you can't ignore the problems they have had. Nobody should recommend a school that hasn't proven itself again and again. SCIMD's problems are far too recent to say this school has a good track record. It is one to watch. If it succeeds, the idea is great. A school chartered in one country holding classes in a country that is far nicer to live in. G


that's why I'm working the old boys network , bro. gotta get that nepotism factor so I don't have to be foreign at all. gotta get a few buldings named after the fam. then it's all good.

otherwise I'll be looking at a British medical school like scidmark, or whatever it's called.
one thing is for sure, I won't be at a school with the word Carribean in the name.

What was that guy thinking when he called the school american university of the caribbean.. helloooo, caribbean means joke to most people . best to conceal it not announce it at every opportunity.

teratos
11-17-2007, 01:46 PM
that's why I'm working the old boys network , bro. gotta get that nepotism factor so I don't have to be foreign at all. gotta get a few buldings named after the fam. then it's all good.

otherwise I'll be looking at a British medical school like scidmark, or whatever it's called.
one thing is for sure, I won't be at a school with the word Carribean in the name.

What was that guy thinking when he called the school american university of the caribbean.. helloooo, caribbean means joke to most people . best to conceal it not announce it at every opportunity.

SCIMD isn't a British Med school. It is a Senegalese med school operating on British soil. I have had no problems with my Diploma that has "Caribbean" displayed prominently on it. No probs with licensure, residency, job etc. That's what pays the bills, Bro.

stephew
11-17-2007, 02:00 PM
but the fact remains that this school is still operating in London. It is still turning out graduates that get top residencies, like TAFKA did, and it's still a very good alternative to sweating it out on a bug-infested Hurricane prone island in the Caribbean.
If I need to go foreign, which hopefull I won't when my contacts pull some strings, but whatever, I'd much rather go to school in England than a place like st kitts or Dominica!

i think you really need to worry less about the party life at these places and brush up on what you should look for in a school in terms of the education and opportunities that come from it. For instance, using anecdotal evidence to make the claim a school is a top choice. Also, you need to learn what makes for a "top residency". premeds and even med students are notoriously bad about understanding this. They think things like a name from a well-known ungrad university translates into any of their given residency programs being "top".

I should add, its good for you to look at SC and these other places. You may not get into a place like sgu and doing the leg work for all sorts of places is a good idea. but you need to know what really to look for. because even if YOU continue to think that london= an "english medical school" every program director looking at your ERAS app will know the difference.


And keep in mind, no amount of contacts will be getting you the competitive residency you want if you dont have an excellent reputation in your med school years. Oh and becareful bro. If you dont learn these thing you're in danger of being dependent upon connections for the rest of your career because you'll have nothing personally to offer.

stephew
11-17-2007, 02:05 PM
please note: multiple accounts are NOT permitted. if you repeatedly attempt to violation tos in spite of this, vmd will (and has) contacted the appropriate authorities. In the past this has included universities and residency programs.

JHarris
11-17-2007, 03:02 PM
please note: multiple accounts are NOT permitted. if you repeatedly attempt to violation tos in spite of this, vmd will (and has) contacted the appropriate authorities. In the past this has included universities and residency programs.

Sorry, but this forum is for discussion of St. Christopher, which I am debating is still as far as I am concerned is a British medical school
PS:
please stay on topic. I would remind you that flooding is against the TOS (http://www.valuemd.com/disclaimer.php) you agreed to when you registered.

JHarris
11-17-2007, 03:04 PM
SCIMD isn't a British Med school. It is a Senegalese med school operating on British soil. I have had no problems with my Diploma that has "Caribbean" displayed prominently on it. No probs with licensure, residency, job etc. That's what pays the bills, Bro.


it might not be a british medical school officially, but it is in terms of location and after all, if I can get a hot and easy residency like TAFKA where I will be playing lots of golf, then who cares where the charter is from.

what matters to me is the MD, the fun and ease of school and the prestige of a great life, making great coin, having some arm candy, a hot car, and phat crib. All I'm working for is the MD at this point since the rest is already in place but I want the MD since nobody in the fam has one. they just trade on the market and own things. BORING

I would remind all of you that I am like the swordsman in "A princess Bride" So far I am fighting with my left hand. I am ready to make the switch whenever I need to. I can party. I can play. I can get my groove on and it's all good.
It appears many are very jealous.
This is nothing new. My family has money. I have had a sheltered life and have never had to worry about these things. I would nevef bag on anybody the way I get bagged on. Lots of haters out here.
That's all good. Good luck to all.
Many need luck. Some of us already have it

Anthony Thomasson
11-17-2007, 06:08 PM
top residencies are tough to get for US grads, they are tougher to get for us making competitive matches anomalies rather than the norm. if you want a highly competitive residency like derm ortho opthto plastics then foreign schools will likely not get you there. for competitive residencies like ER, rads, surgery a foreign school may get you there with great board scores and for obgyn, im, fp, peds, psych then a foreign school is a good alternative to reaching your goals

so first look at US MD/DO schools then i would look at "real" foreign schools that take US students in israel, ireland, australia then the schols with cali approval, then schools with new york, then reasses my qualifications and try again from the top and if all else fails start down further in the list

also tafkas residency is competitive and i know i don't have the scores for it but by no means is it the be all and end all. it is a competitive residency at a community hospital and very doable with great board scores...definitely within reach, just look at match lists from other schools for rads, er, surgery.

not trying to negate the accomplishement but when you are a pre med things are not in good perspective from down there...like the fact that living in england for 2 years seems to stand out more to you than things that really matter and will affect your 40 years in practice

good luck man being post call sucks..slept during the day now i can't sleep

Good pragmatic advice. I am somewhat familiar with Tafka and his residency program. The hospital is large and well funded in a affluent area and one of the most preferred in that area, out of a region of many hospitals. It should also be noted that Tafka (like other posters said, correctly) more probably arrived due to his stellar board scores and his laser beam like focus on medicine and his career. I might even suggest that he made it as far as he has, inspite of any perceived negatives that may be attached to his medical school affiliation.

You should be looking elsewhere for a good medical school choice - at this point. The priority list noted above by AUCMD2006 is a good one to use.

And as for your family connections, your family's monetary situation, strings being pulled, nepotism "the fun and ease of school and the prestige of a great life, making great coin, having some arm candy, a hot car, and phat crib" etc. Best if you keep those as private thoughts, if it all.

Voicing these things make you seem a whole lot less credible in the eyes of others, who are likely to question your maturity level and ability to make good judgements etc. All crucial in the medical field! (I mention this not to be critical, just to give you some helpful feedback on how an impartial observer might view you).

Good luck on your decision making. Avail yourself of the good advice noted by the older posters who have been where you are now, and have learned some lessons along the way.

AUCMD2006
11-17-2007, 07:45 PM
man you are way off! first off tafka did not get into a "hot and easy residency" the residency is competitive though reacheable with great scores but it is about as far from easy as you can get. i have seen people in that residency who are brilliant be on the border of failing out that is why tafkas transition to third year will be a much bigger accomplishment than the 'easy' first year

the things you listed as reasons why you want a MD will make you a bad doctor because there are much better and, as you put it "hot and easy" ways to make much mor "coin" than most pf what we do

chances are if you are alreadyt looking at the foreign route "nepotism" is not a sure thing and you will wind up at a forteign school to be one of DK Sampson's foreign med student characters. i am sure every school has them, my initial class had about 5 people with "connections" that they were waiting to come through getting in a US med school. we actually also had royalty in our class.... a "nigerian prince" who wanted to study abroad, and 2 people with program director connections for residency...all very funny

good luck

JHarris
11-20-2007, 09:09 AM
man you are way off! first off tafka did not get into a "hot and easy residency" the residency is competitive though reacheable with great scores but it is about as far from easy as you can get. i have seen people in that residency who are brilliant be on the border of failing out that is why tafkas transition to third year will be a much bigger accomplishment than the 'easy' first year

the things you listed as reasons why you want a MD will make you a bad doctor because there are much better and, as you put it "hot and easy" ways to make much mor "coin" than most pf what we do

chances are if you are alreadyt looking at the foreign route "nepotism" is not a sure thing and you will wind up at a forteign school to be one of DK Sampson's foreign med student characters. i am sure every school has them, my initial class had about 5 people with "connections" that they were waiting to come through getting in a US med school. we actually also had royalty in our class.... a "nigerian prince" who wanted to study abroad, and 2 people with program director connections for residency...all very funny

good luck

thanks for the good luck there bro, I actually believe you mean it.
I'm not too worried. I hear what you are saying, but I am playing out all of my options and I will call in the old string pulling if needed.
I'll keep an eye on this school, officially British or not, I still think it's better than the caribbean and as long as states are cool with the degree, as they are in the state where TAFKA is working, then it's all cool. sign me up

maximillian genossa
11-20-2007, 12:04 PM
Yes, you better do that, just keep an eye on the school because there are much better option out there for someone like you. Have you tried to check on Charles, Prague? Neilc a guy who was banned for multiple accounts studied there and his degree is pretty much ok in all 50 states and dreadful California and Texas. Check that one out.


thanks for the good luck there bro, I actually believe you mean it.
I'm not too worried. I hear what you are saying, but I am playing out all of my options and I will call in the old string pulling if needed.
I'll keep an eye on this school, officially British or not, I still think it's better than the caribbean and as long as states are cool with the degree, as they are in the state where TAFKA is working, then it's all cool. sign me up

Bhoot
11-25-2007, 10:29 PM
I'm a former SC student who transferred out during the scare with the ECFMG and GMC. The education via the instructors was always top notch, of course the charter problems and owners/administrators were the problem and their greed almost sunk the entire operation. As a note on the quality of the education, most of my classmates (who are now ahead of me in the game) are in clinical rotations. One scored 450 on the Step 1 and is now in rotations in New York. Others are here in Chicago, having passed the Step 1 the first time, and are doing rotations here. I have to say I was part of a fantastic class, but the instructors were always there for us. Will the revised admin get it together for those still at SC so that can graduate? I hope so. I met some very special and intelligent people there who will make good doctors. A further note on the article about Arkansas: I agree that for board members to make a decision based on California or New York is assinine. There is already a shortage of primary care physicians in the US, with all the mostly younger "whiz kid" types reaching for the big dollar specialties. USMLE scores are what tell the big picture, and if these off shore students are passing them, and impressing their mentors in rotations, only a fool would make an across the board decision to ban them from practicing in a state. BTW..for the record, suckers, I am an Arkansas native, so back off.

grobble
11-25-2007, 10:50 PM
One scored 450 on the Step 1 ...
Umm is it possible to get 450?

stephew
11-25-2007, 10:56 PM
no it is not. probably meant 250.
300 is the theoretical maximum
very few hit 280.

TAFKA
11-26-2007, 12:23 AM
I'm frequently asked for advice on "off-shore" schools... my advice is always the same and is predicated on education, location, and perceived (by me) student/graduate satisfaction:
1) Royal College of Surgeons, Dublin - 6-year curriculum; poor currency exchange rate
2) Semmelweis, Budapest - some instruction is conducted in Hungarian language; 6-year curriculum
3) Charles, Prague - some instruction is conducted in Czech language; 6-year curriculum
4) SCIMD - presently deferring accepted applicants until "issues" are resolved; poor currency exchange rate
5) AUC - best location in Caribbean; basic sciences are self-taught; relatively weak clerkships
6) SGU - second best location in Caribbean after AUC; very strong clerkships; almost prohibitively expensive
For English-speaking students, the clear choice is 1) and after that they're all relatively equivalent with the temporary exception of SCIMD, pending resolution of "issues." The notable omission is Ross, which I tend not to recommend based on location and perceived dissatisfaction of its students.

grobble
11-26-2007, 01:10 AM
but the fact remains that this school is still operating in London. It is still turning out graduates that get top residencies!
How many graduates and residencies do you know of beyond anecdotal evidence?
Do they post the match results on their website? If they are good wouldn't they post them?
Do they post their clinical affiliations?
Do they post any of the info that Ross, AUC, Saba, SGU, MUA, AUA, SMU, etc...post about their programs or is it a hunt to find what should be made apparent by a website?
Just questions you may want to ask b/c if you go to their website it's not very informative.
.

teratos
11-26-2007, 05:38 AM
I'm frequently asked for advice on "off-shore" schools... my advice is always the same and is predicated on education, location, and perceived (by me) student/graduate satisfaction:
1) Royal College of Surgeons, Dublin - 6-year curriculum; poor currency exchange rate
2) Semmelweis, Budapest - some instruction is conducted in Hungarian language; 6-year curriculum
3) Charles, Prague - some instruction is conducted in Czech language; 6-year curriculum
4) SCIMD - presently deferring accepted applicants until "issues" are resolved; poor currency exchange rate
5) AUC - best location in Caribbean; basic sciences are self-taught; relatively weak clerkships
6) SGU - second best location in Caribbean after AUC; very strong clerkships; almost prohibitively expensive
For English-speaking students, the clear choice is 1) and after that they're all relatively equivalent with the temporary exception of SCIMD, pending resolution of "issues." The notable omission is Ross, which I tend not to recommend based on location and perceived dissatisfaction of its students.

All i have to say is...WOW. SCIMD is equivalent to AUC, Saba, Ross and SGU (once the issues are resolved, of course....)?? After having attended AUC, although years ago, I found the basic sciences to be well taught, and the clinical rotations to be just fine. Same for Saba, which you don't mention. For you to "recommend" SCIMD about the very well established schools in the Caribbean is just astounding. I could go on, but I don't think you want me to. G

maximillian genossa
11-26-2007, 09:17 AM
I am baffled!

You are sure you are not confusing Ross with AUC? I have heard folks from Ross complaining about their basic sciences . To put SCIMD over AUC and SGU is a stretch.




I'm frequently asked for advice on "off-shore" schools... my advice is always the same and is predicated on education, location, and perceived (by me) student/graduate satisfaction:
1) Royal College of Surgeons, Dublin - 6-year curriculum; poor currency exchange rate
2) Semmelweis, Budapest - some instruction is conducted in Hungarian language; 6-year curriculum
3) Charles, Prague - some instruction is conducted in Czech language; 6-year curriculum
4) SCIMD - presently deferring accepted applicants until "issues" are resolved; poor currency exchange rate
5) AUC - best location in Caribbean; basic sciences are self-taught; relatively weak clerkships
6) SGU - second best location in Caribbean after AUC; very strong clerkships; almost prohibitively expensive
For English-speaking students, the clear choice is 1) and after that they're all relatively equivalent with the temporary exception of SCIMD, pending resolution of "issues." The notable omission is Ross, which I tend not to recommend based on location and perceived dissatisfaction of its students.

Delaney
11-26-2007, 12:18 PM
Hopefully TAFKA's last post will prove why no one should be listening to anything he posts.

2fasfasligand
11-26-2007, 03:43 PM
I am also a SCIMD grad and know that our school has produced some very good grads who got into top residencies however the student's and graduates have suffered due to the schools administration failing us many times. The school attracted people due to it's location in England and has an excellent basic science and clinical program however currently I would not recommend ANY school which is not at least California approved.

JHarris
11-26-2007, 05:23 PM
Hopefully TAFKA's last post will prove why no one should be listening to anything he posts.

TAFKA's residency and success trumps all of your hateraid

stephew
11-26-2007, 05:39 PM
I think users here misinterpret caution about a school with bad wishes. That's generally not the case. I agree with Teratos and others. To begin with, anecdotal success is a lousy way to judge a school. I'm a great example of that. What does anecdotal success tell you? it tells you what can, sometimes in exceptional cirucmstances, be attained. but it says nothing as to likelihood. An example can be the rule, or the exception to the rule. Another analogy you should all appreciate. A stage four lung cancer patient. Can someone be cured? I mean truly it goes away for decades and never comes back again cured? Actually yes. Do you promise your patients that this is the rule rather than the exception? Not if you have an ounce of honesty in you.

If a person does well, we are happy for them and hope they live up to expectations as a doc. But if they succeed from a place riddled with problems, does that mean that its then advisable to recommend this place to other student? god no. And when we point it out its not negating the experience of those who succeed. Not by a shot. But it would be bad faith (as well as faulty reasoning) to suggest that this is the best path for people to take in general

anyway I very heartily disagree with tafka's ranking. I think his interpretation is just out at left field. but that's not to say im not happy for his success. If st chris gets on track that would be great for students.

And btw Jharris; you may think of the school as british. but your program directors, looking over your application wont. That is the point.

JHarris
11-26-2007, 05:55 PM
I think users here misinterpret caution about a school with bad wishes. That's generally not the case. I agree with Teratos and others. To begin with, anecdotal success is a lousy way to judge a school. I'm a great example of that. What does anecdotal success tell you? it tells you what can, sometimes in exceptional cirucmstances, be attained. but it says nothing as to likelihood. An example can be the rule, or the exception to the rule. Another analogy you should all appreciate. A stage four lung cancer patient. Can someone be cured? I mean truly it goes away for decades and never comes back again cured? Actually yes. Do you promise your patients that this is the rule rather than the exception? Not if you have an ounce of honesty in you.

If a person does well, we are happy for them and hope they live up to expectations as a doc. But if they succeed from a place riddled with problems, does that mean that its then advisable to recommend this place to other student? god no. And when we point it out its not negating the experience of those who succeed. Not by a shot. But it would be bad faith (as well as faulty reasoning) to suggest that this is the best path for people to take in general

anyway I very heartily disagree with tafka's ranking. I think his interpretation is just out at left field. but that's not to say im not happy for his success. If st chris gets on track that would be great for students.

And btw Jharris; you may think of the school as british. but your program directors, looking over your application wont. That is the point.

don't worry doc, I know this school is as british as the lady who played the love interest in Shakespeare in Love ( isn't this fun not getting to mention names and dumbing down the forum )

grobble
11-26-2007, 05:56 PM
TAFKA's residency and success trumps all of your hateraid
Taking anecdotal evidence of residencies or a few good residencies as fact of how most students fair at a school is dangerous. Ask the school for thieir match list over the last few years? If they can't or won't produce it , be skeptical. The same about clinical affiliations. IMO these should not be a secret, as it is not among most foreign schools Ross, AUC, Saba, SGU, SMU, MUA, AUA..etc....

Anthony Thomasson
11-26-2007, 09:40 PM
I'm frequently asked for advice on "off-shore" schools... my advice is always the same and is predicated on education, location, and perceived (by me) student/graduate satisfaction:
1) Royal College of Surgeons, Dublin - 6-year curriculum; poor currency exchange rate
2) Semmelweis, Budapest - some instruction is conducted in Hungarian language; 6-year curriculum
3) Charles, Prague - some instruction is conducted in Czech language; 6-year curriculum
4) SCIMD - presently deferring accepted applicants until "issues" are resolved; poor currency exchange rate
5) AUC - best location in Caribbean; basic sciences are self-taught; relatively weak clerkships
6) SGU - second best location in Caribbean after AUC; very strong clerkships; almost prohibitively expensive
For English-speaking students, the clear choice is 1) and after that they're all relatively equivalent with the temporary exception of SCIMD, pending resolution of "issues." The notable omission is Ross, which I tend not to recommend based on location and perceived dissatisfaction of its students.

This limited ranking, which does not mention a lot of other viable, highly regarded, English language based alternatives such as those available in Australia, Israel and the Philippines renders it far too limited in scope as to be inacurate at best. To place SCIMD at number 4 in regards to a recommendation (regardless of your own well earned success) sends the wrong, and again inacurate message to students looking for real advice and assistance here.

Surely, at the present time with the school deferring admissions, the lack of NY or Cali. approval and a yet to be fully rebuilt program it would be unwise to rate or recommend the school such as you have.

You have every right to be proud of your success, your school and the education you received. But the facts on the ground currently would indicate steering students towards other institutions for the time being.

maximillian genossa
11-27-2007, 02:04 PM
TAFKA's residency and success trumps all of your hateraid
No, it does not, it is one anecdotal evidence, quite successful but not enough to define a whole institution over a single graduate.

Tipton
11-27-2007, 02:31 PM
Hopefully TAFKA's last post will prove why no one should be listening to anything he posts.

At least when it comes to comparing/recommending off-shore medical schools...yes.:scared:

Bad combination: ignorance and certainty.

TAFKA
12-01-2007, 09:42 PM
1) That wasn't a ranking; it was just a list. The only ordinal components were that I'd recommend Royal College of Surgeons before all the other schools and I would NOT recommend SCIMD pending resolution of the issues. I thought I'd clearly stated both of those things, but in re-reading my post, maybe it wasn't clear. The list numbers were based primarily on geography.
2) I clearly stated my criteria for including schools in my list: education, location, and perceived (by me) satisfaction of students/graduates. All three criteria are subjective, particularly the latter two.
3) I agree that Saba is an excellent school, but I'd have a hard time recommending that someone spend two years on that island with the availability of education that is at least equivalent in more desirable locations. However, for students particularly prone to distraction, the isolation of Saba could prove to be a relative strength.
4) I wasn't trying to upset anyone or imply that schools omitted from my subjective list don't generate great doctors; I was just giving my opinion on several schools after another poster recommended Charles, a school I also recommend to people.

teratos
12-02-2007, 09:06 AM
1) That wasn't a ranking; it was just a list. The only ordinal components were that I'd recommend Royal College of Surgeons before all the other schools and I would NOT recommend SCIMD pending resolution of the issues. I thought I'd clearly stated both of those things, but in re-reading my post, maybe it wasn't clear. The list numbers were based primarily on geography.
2) I clearly stated my criteria for including schools in my list: education, location, and perceived (by me) satisfaction of students/graduates. All three criteria are subjective, particularly the latter two.
3) I agree that Saba is an excellent school, but I'd have a hard time recommending that someone spend two years on that island with the availability of education that is at least equivalent in more desirable locations. However, for students particularly prone to distraction, the isolation of Saba could prove to be a relative strength.
4) I wasn't trying to upset anyone or imply that schools omitted from my subjective list don't generate great doctors; I was just giving my opinion on several schools after another poster recommended Charles, a school I also recommend to people.

Giving "recommendations" isn't really a good thing. What are you basing them on? What qualifies anyone here to give recommendations on any school they have not attended? I don't think it is unreasonable to steer people AWAY from certain schools when there are glaring issues, and there are several schools I can think of that have some big problems. The choice of med school should be a very individual thing. You have graduated and gotten a residency. That is good for you. What it also does is elevate your opinion in the eyes of a college student who is just starting to look. "Hey, this guy is a doctor, he must know what he is talking about". I think it is reckless to start listing recommendations that aren't based on a heck of a lot of experience. Not only have I finished med school, but I have completed a residency, am board certified, have been in practice for a few years, and have been a teaching attending for several of the schools on this board. I don't feel comfortable making a list of schools I "recommend" to people with bullet points on why. My lists make sense.

* CA approved schools first, and in no order
* Schools that have been around for a while, lots of people in residency/practice come next
* schools that have been recently established, very short track record after that
* Schools with obvious problems are still fair game to steer people away from.

Then people do their own research and pick the schools that are right for them. G







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