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Dru
09-18-2007, 06:36 PM
As of 8/26/07 my observations were:

When I go to the CMU website I see the phone number for contact in Chicago. It is listed as 847-299-5575. When I go to the reverse phone directory I get a lady listed with an apartment address on Milwaukee Avenue in Northbrook, Illinois. The other phone number for CMU is 847-299-5549. When I do a reverse phone search for it, I get a message that it is a cell number in some directories, and it is listed as a land line based in Des Plaines, Illinois in one reverse directory. The CMU website states that the Medical Education Management Group is their U.S. office. When I go to the address of 10275 West Higgins Road I find that it is an office building with 30 business including Proctor and Gamble, but the Medical Education Management Group is not listed. The CMU website has a page regarding the Dean of Students and his responsibilities. It includes a nice picture of a good looking man, but there is no name. When I go to the Caribbean phone directory and look up all the different medical schools, I see addresses and several phone numbers for each one. When I go to the Curacao white and yellow pages and look up CMU I keep getting "not on file" messages. The CMU website lists their Curacao address as WTC Piscadera Bay in Willenstad, which is the capital of Curacao. When I look at the WTC business who occupy office space, I do not find any listing for CMU. The CMU website lists two Curacao phone numbers (5999-463-6453 & 646-401-0636). When I do a reverse search in the Curacao phone directory I get "not on file" messages. When I go to the Curacao Commercial Register I find that CMU is listed as a LLC or Private Limited Liability Company, and it was just incorporated on 8/20/2007. It says it is a "Higher Vocational Education, Scientific & Research Institution, Organization and Coordination of Congresses, and Seminars and Conventions".

AND NOW FOR THE LATEST:

The government of Curacao requires a lump-sum payment of 3.2 million dollars in order to grant a charter. As of last week, CMU has not been granted a charter, nor have they even applied for it. In order for a med school to be legit they MUST be chartered BEFORE they open their doors and start their clases. CMU began classes in May, and to date they still have NO charter. Even if they obtain a charter at this late date, students have wasted their time and their money. None of the "credits" that they earned will be recognized by IMED or any school that students may attempt to transfer into.

To date there are 21 students "enrolled" at CMU. Six students were lured away from other schools and accepted as tansfers into CMU, and as of today, there is only ONE student of the six left. Three of the four students attempted to transfer back into their old schools, and they found that the work they did at CMU was not to be counted.

The CMU website lists a of 21 "faculty" members and "honorary professors".
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Faculty & Staff (http://www.cmumed.org/academics/faculty.htm)
(Actually Dr. D is listed twice, so it would be 20). The students that have transferred out of CMU report that the university is a BIG JOKE. They have had some classes in conference rooms rented at the WTC, but for the most part it is independent study, where materials are taken home, brought back, and they are given an A or a B. The students have NEVER seen more than 2 to 3 faculty members, and "classes" have been poor at best. They have reported that they have occasionally had lectures in "anatomy", and the student mix is premed students along side MD4 students.

In looking at the "faculty" list, I have found the following:

Dr. U D (listed twice on the CMU website) is the Dean. I wrote the exact same email to his private email address to ask if he is a CMU faculty member. I have NOT emailed him at the CMU campus, as I am sure that RL is probably answer for him. Thus far I have received no response from him via his private email, so I no confirmation from him verifying that he is dean or professor.

Dr. J P, per the CMU website, is the Dean of Basic Sciences. He has written several articles which appear on the internet, and the email addresses for them are not valid. My understanding is that he works or worked for St. James School of Medicine as a Pre-Med Science instructor.

Dr. T P is, I assume, is Dr. J P's wife. She is listed as the CMU Assistant Dean of Pre-Med Sciences. When I search the internet for any other accomplishments, I see nothing.

Dr. E E-S is apparently the former St. Martinus's Associate Dean of Basic Sciences. She has also been noted on an old SMU site as their Associate Professor in Physiology, Microbiology, and Clinical Medicine and the Dean of Basic Sciences. Although she is listed as being on the CMU faculty, I see no biography listed for her on the CMU site. She currently holds a Curacao work permit.

Dr. M R H likewise is listed as a CMU faculty member with no CMU biography. When I Google him I see that he did residency at St. John's Mercy Medical Center. He is/was at the University of Missouri School of Medicine as an Adjunjct Assistant Professor for the Dept. of Family and Community Medicine. He wrote a few articles and then seemingly dropped off the face of the earth.

Dr. K A & Dr. N D are listed on the CMU site, but neither have a biography there, and neither have any history of existance on the internet. I am not certain that they even exist.

Dr. S C is presently at the Institue of Post-Graduate Medical Education and Research in Kolkata, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list, but has no CMU bio.

Dr. S N (MS/PhD) is listed as an employee of the Care Hospital as a Biochemist in Hyderabad. He currently serves as the President Elect for the Association of Medical Biochemists of India, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list and has no CMU bio.

Of all the "faculty" members and "honorary professors" that CMU list, Dr. E E-S is the only one who has a Curacao legal work permit, so if there are any other professors actually in existance or working there, they are illegal.

There are currently 21 CMU students enrolled and attending the school, and the highest number reportedly was at 24. Tuition and fees are about $8000 per student, and this does not include living expenses.
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Financial Aid - Tuition and Fees (http://www.cmumed.org/financialaid/tuition.htm)
Considering that CMU is not maintaining classrooms and probably not paying more than 2-3 "faculty" members, their overhead is very low. This means an estimated revenue of $200,000 for CMU (RL) for the first semester and about the same amount for Semester 2, for a total of approximately $400,000. All of the work and grades that students have achieved there are worthless, as no school or agency will consider them valid due to the lack of a charter.

I am deeply disappointed to report my opinion that CMU is a fake school. It is a diploma mill, and they have criminally taken money from students.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 06:47 PM
wow, you really did some heavy duty research into this. however, you reached the same conclusion that i did many months ago.....with much less work :lol:.... just kidding.

strong work.

stateofequilibrium
09-18-2007, 07:00 PM
Where did you find out about the student info?

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 07:22 PM
Where did you find out about the student info?

dru went undercover to the open house :-miner

eastern2western
09-18-2007, 07:30 PM
As of 8/26/07 my observations were:

When I go to the CMU website I see the phone number for contact in Chicago. It is listed as 847-299-5575. When I go to the reverse phone directory I get a lady listed with an apartment address on Milwaukee Avenue in Northbrook, Illinois. The other phone number for CMU is 847-299-5549. When I do a reverse phone search for it, I get a message that it is a cell number in some directories, and it is listed as a land line based in Des Plaines, Illinois in one reverse directory. The CMU website states that the Medical Education Management Group is their U.S. office. When I go to the address of 10275 West Higgins Road I find that it is an office building with 30 business including Proctor and Gamble, but the Medical Education Management Group is not listed. The CMU website has a page regarding the Dean of Students and his responsibilities. It includes a nice picture of a good looking man, but there is no name. When I go to the Caribbean phone directory and look up all the different medical schools, I see addresses and several phone numbers for each one. When I go to the Curacao white and yellow pages and look up CMU I keep getting "not on file" messages. The CMU website lists their Curacao address as WTC Piscadera Bay in Willenstad, which is the capital of Curacao. When I look at the WTC business who occupy office space, I do not find any listing for CMU. The CMU website lists two Curacao phone numbers (5999-463-6453 & 646-401-0636). When I do a reverse search in the Curacao phone directory I get "not on file" messages. When I go to the Curacao Commercial Register I find that CMU is listed as a LLC or Private Limited Liability Company, and it was just incorporated on 8/20/2007. It says it is a "Higher Vocational Education, Scientific & Research Institution, Organization and Coordination of Congresses, and Seminars and Conventions".

AND NOW FOR THE LATEST:

The government of Curacao requires a lump-sum payment of 3.2 million dollars in order to grant a charter. As of last week, CMU has not been granted a charter, nor have they even applied for it. In order for a med school to be legit they MUST be chartered BEFORE they open their doors and start their clases. CMU began classes in May, and to date they still have NO charter. Even if they obtain a charter at this late date, students have wasted their time and their money. None of the "credits" that they earned will be recognized by IMED or any school that students may attempt to transfer into.

To date there are 21 students "enrolled" at CMU. Six students were lured away from other schools and accepted as tansfers into CMU, and as of today, there is only ONE student of the six left. Three of the four students attempted to transfer back into their old schools, and they found that the work they did at CMU was not to be counted.

The CMU website lists a of 21 "faculty" members and "honorary professors".
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Faculty & Staff (http://www.cmumed.org/academics/faculty.htm)
(Actually Dr. D is listed twice, so it would be 20). The students that have transferred out of CMU report that the university is a BIG JOKE. They have had some classes in conference rooms rented at the WTC, but for the most part it is independent study, where materials are taken home, brought back, and they are given an A or a B. The students have NEVER seen more than 2 to 3 faculty members, and "classes" have been poor at best. They have reported that they have occasionally had lectures in "anatomy", and the student mix is premed students along side MD4 students.

In looking at the "faculty" list, I have found the following:

Dr. U D (listed twice on the CMU website) is the Dean. I wrote the exact same email to his private email address to ask if he is a CMU faculty member. I have NOT emailed him at the CMU campus, as I am sure that RL is probably answer for him. Thus far I have received no response from him via his private email, so I no confirmation from him verifying that he is dean or professor.

Dr. J P, per the CMU website, is the Dean of Basic Sciences. He has written several articles which appear on the internet, and the email addresses for them are not valid. My understanding is that he works or worked for St. James School of Medicine as a Pre-Med Science instructor.

Dr. T P is, I assume, is Dr. J P's wife. She is listed as the CMU Assistant Dean of Pre-Med Sciences. When I search the internet for any other accomplishments, I see nothing.

Dr. E E-S is apparently the former St. Martinus's Associate Dean of Basic Sciences. She has also been noted on an old SMU site as their Associate Professor in Physiology, Microbiology, and Clinical Medicine and the Dean of Basic Sciences. Although she is listed as being on the CMU faculty, I see no biography listed for her on the CMU site. She currently holds a Curacao work permit.

Dr. M R H likewise is listed as a CMU faculty member with no CMU biography. When I Google him I see that he did residency at St. John's Mercy Medical Center. He is/was at the University of Missouri School of Medicine as an Adjunjct Assistant Professor for the Dept. of Family and Community Medicine. He wrote a few articles and then seemingly dropped off the face of the earth.

Dr. K A & Dr. N D are listed on the CMU site, but neither have a biography there, and neither have any history of existance on the internet. I am not certain that they even exist.

Dr. S C is presently at the Institue of Post-Graduate Medical Education and Research in Kolkata, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list, but has no CMU bio.

Dr. S N (MS/PhD) is listed as an employee of the Care Hospital as a Biochemist in Hyderabad. He currently serves as the President Elect for the Association of Medical Biochemists of India, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list and has no CMU bio.

Of all the "faculty" members and "honorary professors" that CMU list, Dr. E E-S is the only one who has a Curacao legal work permit, so if there are any other professors actually in existance or working there, they are illegal.

There are currently 21 CMU students enrolled and attending the school, and the highest number reportedly was at 24. Tuition and fees are about $8000 per student, and this does not include living expenses.
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Financial Aid - Tuition and Fees (http://www.cmumed.org/financialaid/tuition.htm)
Considering that CMU is not maintaining classrooms and probably not paying more than 2-3 "faculty" members, their overhead is very low. This means an estimated revenue of $200,000 for CMU (RL) for the first semester and about the same amount for Semester 2, for a total of approximately $400,000. All of the work and grades that students have achieved there are worthless, as no school or agency will consider them valid due to the lack of a charter.

I am deeply disappointed to report my opinion that CMU is a fake school. It is a diploma mill, and they have criminally taken money from students.
Hey, you better have some solid evidence that can backup your words or else this post can open up a pandora's box.

jaywalk81
09-18-2007, 07:48 PM
cmu is the pandora's box when they plagiarized off sgu and other school's website

eastern2western
09-18-2007, 07:56 PM
The problem is that if Dru makes accusations about CMU without any evidences, then he can open himself up to legal troubles. Where is RL's legal team?

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 08:01 PM
Good work there Dru.I am not suprised one bit about any of this. cmu will continue to be exposed piece by piece until the close down or is taken down for fraud by the authorities.
3.2 million haha, no wonder they are scurring to gather students before getting the charter, how else do they resonably expect to pay that type of money, haha, that explains the desperation they have.
My experience with them was that it was only rl running the show and I maintain that,so it would not suprise me to read that there could be some bogus faculty names to make it appear as if they are more.

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 08:07 PM
The problem is that if Dru makes accusations about CMU without any evidences, then he can open himself up to legal troubles. Where is RL's legal team?
Sometimes you have to check the source of any information before you can question the authenticity of the information.What does Dru have to gain or loose by not stating things as he has seen them.You however have chosen to conclude that he could making accusations and you have to ask yourself why.of all the information on this forum this merely exposses another layer of it, and not to far what everyone already know to be the situation at cmu.

eastern2western
09-18-2007, 08:20 PM
Where is rl? I would imagine that he is jumping all over this right now.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 08:26 PM
Where is rl? I would imagine that he is jumping all over this right now.

all he will do is come on the board..... give some response that doesnt even answer the allegation...... then disappear again. it has happened too many times in the past :rolleyes:.

its a feudal cycle.... however, with each cycle..... it digs deeper into the background of this place...... so its definetely worth the ride.

emt036
09-18-2007, 08:32 PM
The problem is that if Dru makes accusations about CMU without any evidences, then he can open himself up to legal troubles. Where is RL's legal team?
And CMU doesn't bear any legal responsibility for the blatant "inaccuracies" plastered all over their website and on this forum by their school officials?

DOC.p
09-18-2007, 08:34 PM
i'm sure Dru has done her hw and can back up everything that she is saying...i have no doubt of that

emt036
09-18-2007, 08:34 PM
its a feudal cycle....

Dude, I didn't know we were going medieval... :lol:

MDXRS22
09-18-2007, 08:40 PM
Wow! It is really getting better and better.

maximillian genossa
09-18-2007, 08:48 PM
You are right. I consider myself very objective with this and any school, but Dru, you just made some serious allegations and as eastern2western says it may open a Pandora's box for you, VMD and all of us. Diploma mill, fraud, scam, dude, that is serious stuff that you will need hardcore evidence (beyond circumstantial) to prove them, other wise, kaboom! open Pandora. It happened to me dude, so I am talking by my own personal experience ( it took me while to handle it, and I do have legal experience, not to brag about it).

Good luck to all.



Hey, you better have some solid evidence that can backup your words or else this post can open up a pandora's box.

hirizal
09-18-2007, 08:49 PM
listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU. AND YES WE HAVE TWO OFFICES IN THE WTC TO BE CORRECT DRU. SECONDLY THERE WERE 12 STUDENTS THAT STARTED AND NOW FOUR OF THEM ARE BACK AT CMU. ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS. SO GET ALL YOUR darn INFO TOGETHER THE CORRECT WAY THEN POST!!! OTHERWISE STOP THE darn HATING AND ************.....OR BETTER COME HERE AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER. ALSO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE 3.2 MILLION DOLLARS TO GET A CHARTER, AND IF YOU GOT ANY PROFF STATING WHERE IT COST THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY PLZ FOWARD IT MY WAY SO I CAN LET THE ADMINSTRATION AND THE GOV KNOW ABOUT THIS NEW 3.2 MILLION DOLLAR RULE. ANYWAYS GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT THEN YOU CAN POST ANYTHING YOU WANT TO POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: ITS PPL LIKE YOU THAT GIVE VALUE MD A BAD NAME BY PUTTING UP FALSE INFORMATION. BEFORE YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS. OH AND FAR AS LIVING EXPENSES GO, CURACAO IS ONE OF THE CHEAPEST CARIBBEAN ISLANDS MY MAN.OH AND HERE IS THE DIRECT NUMBER TO THE WTC WHERE U CAN CALL AND ASK THEM
World Trade Center Curacao
International
Piscaderabay z/n
Willemstad Curacao
Phone: 5999/463 61 00
Fax: 5999/462 44 08
THE OTHER THING ABOUT RL MAKING 200,000 IS NOT TRU...WHY???BECAUSE PRE-MED STUDENTS DIDNT NOT HAVE TO PAY TUTION LAST SEMESTER ALSO THE REST OF THE STUDENTS ONLY PAID HALF SO IF YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OFF OF US MY FRIEND U ARE VERY WRONG!!!!

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 08:49 PM
Apologies.did not mean to say he, where it was supposed to be she. Anyone reading the information,the source should be the last concern.really it should be common knowledge that cmu is fake.it helps to be reconfirmed over and over agian.

hirizal
09-18-2007, 08:53 PM
As For You Tony....if I Wasnt Sga-vice Prez I Would spend more time reading ValueMD's Terms of Service (http://www.valuemd.com/disclaimer.php).

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 08:56 PM
listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU. AND YES WE HAVE TWO OFFICES IN THE WTC TO BE CORRECT DRU. SECONDLY THERE WERE 12 STUDENTS THAT STARTED AND NOW FOUR OF THEM ARE BACK AT CMU. ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS. SO GET ALL YOUR darn INFO TOGETHER THE CORRECT WAY THEN POST!!! OTHERWISE STOP THE Fing HATING AND GET A LIFE.....OR BETTER COME HERE AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER. ANYWAYS GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT THEN YOU CAN POST ANYTHING YOU WANT TO POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: ITS PPL LIKE YOU THAT GIVE VALUE MD A BAD NAME BY PUTTING UP FALSE INFORMATION. BEFORE YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS.
Haha when did cmu admit to not teling the correct facts.let's start with that.point us to the specific place.if not then you need to take your own advice.and since you are here,you can tell everyone the effect you think not having a charter will have on your current classes and how it would have been wasted time and money.and if you do not get the charter by the end of september what happens.was this the first and only date you were given on when the charter will be ready haha. dude as rl implied we thought you had better things to do than come here.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 08:57 PM
listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU. AND YES WE HAVE TWO OFFICES IN THE WTC TO BE CORRECT DRU. SECONDLY THERE WERE 12 STUDENTS THAT STARTED AND NOW FOUR OF THEM ARE BACK AT CMU. ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS. SO GET ALL YOUR darn INFO TOGETHER THE CORRECT WAY THEN POST!!! OTHERWISE STOP THE Fing HATING AND GET A LIFE.....OR BETTER COME HERE AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER. ANYWAYS GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT THEN YOU CAN POST ANYTHING YOU WANT TO POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: ITS PPL LIKE YOU THAT GIVE VALUE MD A BAD NAME BY PUTTING UP FALSE INFORMATION. BEFORE YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS. OH AND FAR AS LIVING EXPENSES GO, CURACAO IS ONE OF THE CHEAPEST CARIBBEAN ISLANDS MY MAN.

are you going to show up on VMD after in october and be objective if there is still no charter? yes or no.

ps- they have promised that the charter would be "taken care of" by sept 10th through the cmumed.org online representative.

anyway, i look forward to your yes or no response.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 09:00 PM
As For You Tony....if I Wasnt Sga-vice Prez I Would Let You Know Whats On My Mind About You Right Now!!!! I Wouldnt Want To Put My Sga Postion On The Line For A Low Life Like You.

come on, keep it clean and stay within TOS.

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 09:02 PM
As For You Tony....if I Wasnt Sga-vice Prez I Would Let You Know Whats On My Mind About You Right Now!!!! I Wouldnt Want To Put My Sga Postion On The Line For A Low Life Like You.
don't flatter yourself afterall you are the one stuck on cmu a school with no charter throwing your money away pretending you have anyting to show for it, how smart do you think that makes you haha. dude you have nothing to say to anyone here and believe me your sga preg or whatever is all in your mind.take that to the back and show me the money you got for it.tell me can you be a doctor a real doctor without cmu and not even with that. take a long hard look in the mirror dude.you realy need to stick to lurking.on second thoughts do us a favor and let us all see your real colors. keep posting hahaha

DOC.p
09-18-2007, 09:03 PM
yes, as Scott said, please edit your posts. PMs we already sent, anything further will result in a TOS violation. thanks

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 09:07 PM
come on, keep it clean and stay within TOS.
He is itching to show everyone how low he really is, just itching.
but if not for the title given by a school that is barely struggling to stay open and out of multiple allegations of fraud with no charter no imed listing.pffttt if i were him i'd be very upset too haha

hirizal
09-18-2007, 09:09 PM
actually they have admitted it the students who are here and students who have applied. i personally dont care if u guys got the truth or not cuz i mean even with the truth haters are gonna hate.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 09:13 PM
actually they have atmitted it the students who are here and students who have applied. i personally dont care if u guys got the truth or not cuz i mean even with the truth haters are gonna hate.

so will you come here on oct 1st and state that they have been "less than forthcoming" with you if they still dont have a charter? yes or no.

still waiting for a response.

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 09:19 PM
Please moderators is there any way to make sure the real owner of the id was the one behind the coments because for someone who is barely here and from someone else who cannot afford anymore infractions,it seems very questionable tht such unprovoked attacks can be launched about certain things.

hirizal
09-18-2007, 09:20 PM
yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 09:22 PM
yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.
Quoting for future refenrece

hirizal
09-18-2007, 09:23 PM
I am not RL and i have no connection with RL i am just a student at CMU since last semster and you can check my other post if you dont believe me.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 09:29 PM
yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.

ok, i respect your decision.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 09:32 PM
I LOVE CMU!!!

quoting on VMD really doesnt hold any water because anything can be edited. case in point above. :lol:

maximillian genossa
09-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Definitely getting better. Now, I really don't believe the 3.5 million dollar charter thing ( come on Dru, you can do better than that) that was exaggerated. As a matter of fact, I also know a Caribbean Island that charges $25,000 USD. I also know a group of consultants in the UK (one of their lawyers is a former schoolmate of mine) that charge some 17,000 euros, all paperwork done, charter included. Maybe RL might be interested in their services.

maximillian genossa
09-18-2007, 09:36 PM
October 1st. Don't you think you are pushing your luck a little bit?


yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.

stateofequilibrium
09-18-2007, 09:37 PM
I am not RL and i have no connection with RL i am just a student at CMU since last semster and you can check my other post if you dont believe me.

I'm just wondering if you were at any time really worried between RL's statements and CMU's advertising regarding the charter and IMED listing (and then having the guts to call us liars for saying he even said such things) and the actuality of their status?

Such as claiming to have submitted paper work and was waiting for "merging" of their databases when FAIMER said they were still waiting for ANY paperwork from them months later.

TonyIvey
09-18-2007, 09:44 PM
listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU. AND YES WE HAVE TWO OFFICES IN THE WTC TO BE CORRECT DRU. SECONDLY THERE WERE 12 STUDENTS THAT STARTED AND NOW FOUR OF THEM ARE BACK AT CMU. ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS. SO GET ALL YOUR darn INFO TOGETHER THE CORRECT WAY THEN POST!!! OTHERWISE STOP THE darn HATING AND ************.....OR BETTER COME HERE AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER. ALSO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE 3.2 MILLION DOLLARS TO GET A CHARTER, AND IF YOU GOT ANY PROFF STATING WHERE IT COST THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY PLZ FOWARD IT MY WAY SO I CAN LET THE ADMINSTRATION AND THE GOV KNOW ABOUT THIS NEW 3.2 MILLION DOLLAR RULE. ANYWAYS GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT THEN YOU CAN POST ANYTHING YOU WANT TO POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: ITS PPL LIKE YOU THAT GIVE VALUE MD A BAD NAME BY PUTTING UP FALSE INFORMATION. BEFORE YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS. OH AND FAR AS LIVING EXPENSES GO, CURACAO IS ONE OF THE CHEAPEST CARIBBEAN ISLANDS MY MAN.OH AND HERE IS THE DIRECT NUMBER TO THE WTC WHERE U CAN CALL AND ASK THEM
World Trade Center Curacao
International
Piscaderabay z/n
Willemstad Curacao
Phone: 5999/463 61 00
Fax: 5999/462 44 08
THE OTHER THING ABOUT RL MAKING 200,000 IS NOT TRU...WHY???BECAUSE PRE-MED STUDENTS DIDNT NOT HAVE TO PAY TUTION LAST SEMESTER ALSO THE REST OF THE STUDENTS ONLY PAID HALF SO IF YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OFF OF US MY FRIEND U ARE VERY WRONG!!!!


I am not RL and i have no connection with RL i am just a student at CMU since last semster and you can check my other post if you dont believe me.


========================================


http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/141916-place-more-interesting-than-any-mexican-telenovellas.html


http://www.valuemd.com/search.php?searchid=958736



Hi ALL,

Try to stop doubting everything. I am no way connected to the school. I am a parent of a student and did some investigation after seeing all your posts with my own interest and I thought its better to post it here so that people like you will stop doubting each and everything.

Try to be realistic and come to your senses. the post will look similar in different threads bc its the same person posting with the same subject in it.


Hey

I got admission in four MED schools from carribean. Out of that two are ur so called SGU and ROSS. I preferred CMU bc they are confident to make the SCHOOL No: 1 in Carribean and I believe them. They do have more clinical/rotations than any other NEW MED school had before.

You all will realize that within few years. May be you will vote for CMU at that time. Have faith.

stateofequilibrium
09-18-2007, 09:49 PM
Please stop suspecting and calling everyone staff members of CMU repeatedly. If you suspect they are, please report the post and your reasons and they will be looked into.

maximillian genossa
09-18-2007, 09:51 PM
One of the quotes tony posted by anson said..." I got admission in four MED schools from carribean. Out of that two are ur so called SGU and ROSS. I preferred CMU".

He preferred the one lacking what the other 4 had: A CHARTER.

I hit 1260. Nice.

rlewkowski
09-18-2007, 10:04 PM
Mr Dru
"... they have criminally taken money from students."

Please reveal your identity, even through PM and for those serious accusations we would have to clarify it in a court. You went too far.

Dru
09-18-2007, 10:06 PM
If you refer to RL's letter that he received from the Curacao government at:
CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Accreditations - School Charter (http://www.cmumed.org/about/charter.htm) (page down to the second letter, unless RL has removed it from the website)

This letter not only informs RL that he will require $3 million USD, it also informs him that he has not even begun the "proper procedure" for approaching the government for a charter application.

To date, the required amount reportedly is $3.2 million USD, and CMU has made no further effort to apply for a charter, according to the Curacao government.

emt036
09-18-2007, 10:12 PM
Mr Dru
"... they have criminally taken money from students."

Please reveal your identity, even through PM and for those serious accusations we would have to clarify it in a court. You went too far.

Umm, what would you call:
1) Collecting money from students
2) Promising an MD degree
3) Promising that you had a charter and IMED/WHO listing
4) Promising the ability to take USMLE and get licensed in the US and Canada on your plagarized website

when none of this was/is true? I don't see how that doesn't constitute fraud.

rokshana
09-18-2007, 10:12 PM
1st you need to stop YELLING- calm down


listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU.
hear me roar!!


ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS.

so how appropriate is it to have them all in the same class and paying different tuition. And exactly WHERE are your clinical students doing rotations


AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER.
So the END of september is it?? so we have a new countdown?


ALSO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE 3.2 MILLION DOLLARS TO GET A CHARTER, AND IF YOU GOT ANY PROFF STATING WHERE IT COST THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY PLZ FOWARD IT MY WAY SO I CAN LET THE ADMINSTRATION AND THE GOV KNOW ABOUT THIS NEW 3.2 MILLION DOLLAR RULE.
So... do you think charters are free? Countries just hand them out willy nilly to any one that asks for one? ( and jez, per the inspector general of curacao, cmu hasn't even actually asked for one)

YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS.

please, PLEASE< show me where CMU has ever, EVER had the dignity to actually state that they have posted false and /or incorrect info? RL has always made some sort of EXCUSE about the info and has never aplogized for the BLATANT THEFT of the intellectual property of sgu and univ of utah's websites



THE OTHER THING ABOUT RL MAKING 200,000 IS NOT TRU...WHY???
i believer the calculattion was more how much CMU is raking in on the backs of you poor deluded students per semester. PER SEMESTER- not that he personally was making that money*coug*


hun- you need to take the rose colored glasses off- as it stands now you are enrolled in a school recognized by no one- not IMED, not FAIMER, not WHO, not ECFMG, not the netherland Antilles, not even Curacao. THe classes you are taking will not count- I repeat - WILL NOT COUNT toward a legitamate MD degree.

and please- you are in "medical school"- can we stop with the wanna be gangsta writing - its people, and true...

rlewkowski
09-18-2007, 10:17 PM
"THe classes you are taking will not count- I repeat - WILL NOT COUNT toward a legitamate MD degree."

Stop telling blatant lies, prove it as I asked you before. Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree.

rokshana
09-18-2007, 10:21 PM
"THe classes you are taking will not count- I repeat - WILL NOT COUNT toward a legitamate MD degree."

Stop telling blatant lies, prove it as I asked you before. Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree.


i think you are mistaken - i believe YOU need to prove how an unchartered, unaccredited, unrecognized school can deliver on a legitimate degree...

you're right, i don't and neither does all your wishfull thinking make it so....

someone called CMU a diploma mill and that is incorrect- CMU can't deliver a diploma...

rlewkowski
09-18-2007, 10:24 PM
i think you are mistaken - i believe YOU need to prove how an unchartered, unaccredited, unrecognized school can deliver on a legitamate degree...

Dont avoid the answer, I was talking about the classes. Xavier didnt have a charter for 2 years, yet student are doing rotations and some have already graduated.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 10:24 PM
Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree.

so who is it? you? :roll:

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 10:26 PM
Dont avoid the answer

WOW....... the irony here. :lol:

rlewkowski
09-18-2007, 10:27 PM
"Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree."

Really? I tought she was a chief of medical licensing board.

stateofequilibrium
09-18-2007, 10:28 PM
WOW....... the irony here. :lol:

I was JUST about to say that.

Dru
09-18-2007, 10:29 PM
Per IMED/Faimer, if you are an FMG:


"A medical school is listed in IMED after FAIMER receives confirmation from the Ministry of Health or other appropriate agency that the medical school is recognized by the Ministry or other agency. FAIMER also updates the International Medical Education Directory as information about medical schools is received from Ministries of Health or other appropriate agencies."

IMED - FAIMER International Medical Education Directory (http://imed.ecfmg.org/)

Students who have transferred out of CMU and have applied to other medical students have all been told that the classes and "credits" awarded by CMU do not count and are NOT accepted.

Scott1981
09-18-2007, 10:33 PM
"Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree."

Really? I tought she was a chief of medical licensing board.

did you just reply to yourself? :confused:

emt036
09-18-2007, 10:37 PM
Dont avoid the answer, I was talking about the classes. Xavier didnt have a charter for 2 years, yet student are doing rotations and some have already graduated.


did you just reply to yourself? :confused:

He'll get his crack legal team to look into that, right after they get done handing out (not-so) veiled legal threats. But they might have some free time shortly, as soon as they realize it probably would not be a good idea to have CMU's business practices examined in court...

rlewkowski
09-18-2007, 10:37 PM
Per IMED/Faimer, if you are an FMG:


"A medical school is listed in IMED after FAIMER receives confirmation from the Ministry of Health or other appropriate agency that the medical school is recognized by the Ministry or other agency. FAIMER also updates the International Medical Education Directory as information about medical schools is received from Ministries of Health or other appropriate agencies."

IMED - FAIMER International Medical Education Directory (http://imed.ecfmg.org/)

Students who have transferred out of CMU and have applied to other medical students have all been told that the classes and "credits" awarded by CMU do not count and are NOT accepted.

Thats what the Government is working on now.

"Students who have transferred out of CMU and have applied to other medical students have all been told that the classes and "credits" awarded by CMU do not count and are NOT accepted."

Thats not a proof that the clases wont count. Try to transfer to SGU and ask them if they will accept credits from other caribbean medical schools. They will tell you the same story.

Dru
09-18-2007, 10:39 PM
Per RL's VMD signature:

***** *********

Caribbean Medical University
Discover More

emt036
09-18-2007, 10:40 PM
Thats not a proof that the clases wont count. Try to transfer to SGU and ask them if they will accept credits from other caribbean medical schools. They will tell you the same story.

That CMU's credits are worthless?

ECFMG | News & Announcements (http://www.ecfmg.org/announce.htm#credits)

Dru
09-18-2007, 10:41 PM
Thats not a proof that the clases wont count.



I apologize and stand corrected. The classes will count, but the credits will NOT.

See: ECFMG | News & Announcements (http://www.ecfmg.org/announce.htm#credits)

sreec
09-18-2007, 10:42 PM
I suggest that the CMU admins to respond to the original post, rather than to go after Dru or rokshana or anyone else here. Many of those allegations are serious, though not entirely unexpected given what we've seen here over the last couple months.



"Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree."

Really? I tought she was a chief of medical licensing board.


You just quoted yourself, by the way.

lswiltshire
09-18-2007, 10:43 PM
It boggles the mind that the CMU President can not understand that it is required to obtain a charter and be IMED listed BEFORE opening the doors of a med school.


It boggles the mind that prospective students would listen to anyone that tells them what they want to hear so that they can attend any bogus medical school that opens.

It boggles the mind that a person who was promoted to Dean of a true medical school that has struggled to do the right thing and to correct itself when challenged, would defect to a dump where the leadership does not know its right hand from the left (in other words they act like little children in both word and deed).

We have a right to see that this bogus school does not succeed.

rlewkowski
09-18-2007, 10:45 PM
That CMU's credits are worthless?

ECFMG | News & Announcements (http://www.ecfmg.org/announce.htm#credits)

Iím surprised [edited for insults/flames]?
"For the purpose of ECFMG Certification, transferred academic credits earned on or after January 1, 2008, are restricted to:
Credits transferred from one IMED-listed medical school to another IMED-listed medical school.
Credits for courses taken at one medical school within seven years of the date of graduation at the medical school that accepts the transferred courses.
Credits for courses that were passed at the medical school at which the course was taken."

emt036
09-18-2007, 10:50 PM
And I am continually surprised by your reality comprehension skills in the fact that CMU doesn't have a charter, and there is no indication that it will be IMED listed by Jan 1.

finishingfifth
09-18-2007, 11:21 PM
CMU may exist on paper (their own paper, not a charter), but they have yet to prove any indication of recognition from the international or american medical community. RL can spin it any way he likes, the truth is that as of this moment, a degree from CMU is about as useful as a piece of charmin.

eastern2western
09-19-2007, 12:21 AM
As of 8/26/07 my observations were:

When I go to the CMU website I see the phone number for contact in Chicago. It is listed as 847-299-5575. When I go to the reverse phone directory I get a lady listed with an apartment address on Milwaukee Avenue in Northbrook, Illinois. The other phone number for CMU is 847-299-5549. When I do a reverse phone search for it, I get a message that it is a cell number in some directories, and it is listed as a land line based in Des Plaines, Illinois in one reverse directory. The CMU website states that the Medical Education Management Group is their U.S. office. When I go to the address of 10275 West Higgins Road I find that it is an office building with 30 business including Proctor and Gamble, but the Medical Education Management Group is not listed. The CMU website has a page regarding the Dean of Students and his responsibilities. It includes a nice picture of a good looking man, but there is no name. When I go to the Caribbean phone directory and look up all the different medical schools, I see addresses and several phone numbers for each one. When I go to the Curacao white and yellow pages and look up CMU I keep getting "not on file" messages. The CMU website lists their Curacao address as WTC Piscadera Bay in Willenstad, which is the capital of Curacao. When I look at the WTC business who occupy office space, I do not find any listing for CMU. The CMU website lists two Curacao phone numbers (5999-463-6453 & 646-401-0636). When I do a reverse search in the Curacao phone directory I get "not on file" messages. When I go to the Curacao Commercial Register I find that CMU is listed as a LLC or Private Limited Liability Company, and it was just incorporated on 8/20/2007. It says it is a "Higher Vocational Education, Scientific & Research Institution, Organization and Coordination of Congresses, and Seminars and Conventions".

AND NOW FOR THE LATEST:

The government of Curacao requires a lump-sum payment of 3.2 million dollars in order to grant a charter. As of last week, CMU has not been granted a charter, nor have they even applied for it. In order for a med school to be legit they MUST be chartered BEFORE they open their doors and start their clases. CMU began classes in May, and to date they still have NO charter. Even if they obtain a charter at this late date, students have wasted their time and their money. None of the "credits" that they earned will be recognized by IMED or any school that students may attempt to transfer into.

To date there are 21 students "enrolled" at CMU. Six students were lured away from other schools and accepted as tansfers into CMU, and as of today, there is only ONE student of the six left. Three of the four students attempted to transfer back into their old schools, and they found that the work they did at CMU was not to be counted.

The CMU website lists a of 21 "faculty" members and "honorary professors".
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Faculty & Staff (http://www.cmumed.org/academics/faculty.htm)
(Actually Dr. D is listed twice, so it would be 20). The students that have transferred out of CMU report that the university is a BIG JOKE. They have had some classes in conference rooms rented at the WTC, but for the most part it is independent study, where materials are taken home, brought back, and they are given an A or a B. The students have NEVER seen more than 2 to 3 faculty members, and "classes" have been poor at best. They have reported that they have occasionally had lectures in "anatomy", and the student mix is premed students along side MD4 students.

In looking at the "faculty" list, I have found the following:

Dr. U D (listed twice on the CMU website) is the Dean. I wrote the exact same email to his private email address to ask if he is a CMU faculty member. I have NOT emailed him at the CMU campus, as I am sure that RL is probably answer for him. Thus far I have received no response from him via his private email, so I no confirmation from him verifying that he is dean or professor.

Dr. J P, per the CMU website, is the Dean of Basic Sciences. He has written several articles which appear on the internet, and the email addresses for them are not valid. My understanding is that he works or worked for St. James School of Medicine as a Pre-Med Science instructor.

Dr. T P is, I assume, is Dr. J P's wife. She is listed as the CMU Assistant Dean of Pre-Med Sciences. When I search the internet for any other accomplishments, I see nothing.

Dr. E E-S is apparently the former St. Martinus's Associate Dean of Basic Sciences. She has also been noted on an old SMU site as their Associate Professor in Physiology, Microbiology, and Clinical Medicine and the Dean of Basic Sciences. Although she is listed as being on the CMU faculty, I see no biography listed for her on the CMU site. She currently holds a Curacao work permit.

Dr. M R H likewise is listed as a CMU faculty member with no CMU biography. When I Google him I see that he did residency at St. John's Mercy Medical Center. He is/was at the University of Missouri School of Medicine as an Adjunjct Assistant Professor for the Dept. of Family and Community Medicine. He wrote a few articles and then seemingly dropped off the face of the earth.

Dr. K A & Dr. N D are listed on the CMU site, but neither have a biography there, and neither have any history of existance on the internet. I am not certain that they even exist.

Dr. S C is presently at the Institue of Post-Graduate Medical Education and Research in Kolkata, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list, but has no CMU bio.

Dr. S N (MS/PhD) is listed as an employee of the Care Hospital as a Biochemist in Hyderabad. He currently serves as the President Elect for the Association of Medical Biochemists of India, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list and has no CMU bio.

Of all the "faculty" members and "honorary professors" that CMU list, Dr. E E-S is the only one who has a Curacao legal work permit, so if there are any other professors actually in existance or working there, they are illegal.

There are currently 21 CMU students enrolled and attending the school, and the highest number reportedly was at 24. Tuition and fees are about $8000 per student, and this does not include living expenses.
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Financial Aid - Tuition and Fees (http://www.cmumed.org/financialaid/tuition.htm)
Considering that CMU is not maintaining classrooms and probably not paying more than 2-3 "faculty" members, their overhead is very low. This means an estimated revenue of $200,000 for CMU (RL) for the first semester and about the same amount for Semester 2, for a total of approximately $400,000. All of the work and grades that students have achieved there are worthless, as no school or agency will consider them valid due to the lack of a charter.

I am deeply disappointed to report my opinion that CMU is a fake school. It is a diploma mill, and they have criminally taken money from students.
In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.
The common law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law) origins of defamation lie in the torts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort) of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.
A Libel, within the context of admiralty law, is the equivalent of a lawsult, and the "libellant" (or libalent) is the equivalent of a plaintiff in an action at law.

canalboat
09-19-2007, 12:45 AM
As whtat's his name would say it...I think we should all drop out of the medicine business and produce a motion picture film. :jerry:

FireFighterMD
09-19-2007, 12:48 AM
[quote=Dru;673153]I apologize and stand corrected. The classes will count, but the credits will NOT.


does that make sense ? Just wondering :roll:

FireFighterMD
09-19-2007, 12:59 AM
Why is Dru being threatened with legal action ? What did she do that was wrong ? Can people be sued for what is said on an unofficial online forum ?

Does that mean that the thousands of folks on the thousands of online boards that bash political figures etc are legally liable ??

eastern2western
09-19-2007, 01:24 AM
Why is Dru being threatened with legal action ? What did she do that was wrong ? Can people be sued for what is said on an unofficial online forum ?

Does that mean that the thousands of folks on the thousands of online boards that bash political figures etc are legally liable ??
I am not lawyer and I am not threatening anyone with any type of legal actions. The only thing that I am trying to show is that Dru is walking between a fine line between exercising her freedom of speech and defamation. Yes, Dru may not have to take any legal liability for the words that are written on valuemd because Dru is just a three letter name that is created by some unknown person. However, the major problem is that valuemd could be legally liable because it allowed Dru's opinion be posted. I will be honest with you that I am not sure about the laws regulating online posting. The only thing I can say is Dru's original post can be define as defamation if she does not have very strong objective evidence, not rumors.

FireFighterMD
09-19-2007, 02:28 AM
I wasn't referring to you . I was referring to the comments by this user
Mr Dru
"... they have criminally taken money from students."

Please reveal your identity, even through PM and for those serious accusations we would have to clarify it in a court. You went too far.
__________________ "
***** *********

End of Quote.

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 04:35 AM
"Can people be sued for what is said on an unofficial online forum ? "

Yes, especially if the remarks are slanderous, libelous, ill intentioned, defamatory, etc.

"Does that mean that the thousands of folks on the thousands of online boards that bash political figures etc are legally liable ??

You just said it, POLITICAL FIGURES are considered public figures and believe it or not, are subject to a lesser standard of scrutiny. In the case we have here, RL is a private figure, he does not occupy any public office, is conducting business as a private entity, and I have seen some off color remarks that constitute serious allegations against him, though I do not condone the FACT that the school is operating without a charter, etc. Some people in these forums live under a false impression of what truly the 1st amenmend stands for. We all have to be careful of what we say and how we say it. To add gas to an already burning fire, the courts have been split over the issue of internet forums and slanderous, defamatory and libelous comments.

Now, Dru made some serious allegations, that of course considering he is a moderator for the forum makes things more interesting.

I leave it up to you folks to establish some civility and boundaries of what should be said and what should not be said. Bear in mind...accusations of any kind are always subject to scrutiny by the affected party and may (notice I say may) expose the accuser to legal action. (which by the way is very $$$)

Just my .0000002 c.

Peace to all

Max



Why is Dru being threatened with legal action ? What did she do that was wrong ? Can people be sued for what is said on an unofficial online forum ?

Does that mean that the thousands of folks on the thousands of online boards that bash political figures etc are legally liable ??

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 04:40 AM
You did your homework. Good job. Hopefully some people will learn something about it and be more careful ( Dru for example)


In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.
The common law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law) origins of defamation lie in the torts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort) of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.
A Libel, within the context of admiralty law, is the equivalent of a lawsult, and the "libellant" (or libalent) is the equivalent of a plaintiff in an action at law.

diogenes
09-19-2007, 06:19 AM
AND NOW FOR THE LATEST:.........The government of Curacao requires a lump-sum payment of 3.2 million dollars in order to grant a charter..........


If you refer to RL's letter that he received from the Curacao government at:
CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Accreditations - School Charter (http://www.cmumed.org/about/charter.htm) (page down to the second letter, unless RL has removed it from the website)

This letter not only informs RL that he will require $3 million USD........

To date, the required amount reportedly is $3.2 million USD..............
Dru, no matter how many times you repeat this it is simply untrue, a travesty of what is actually said in the letter you yourself have directed us to. But perhaps you are basing the claim on something other than the letter? Clairvoyance?
What the letter actually says in the second paragraph is -
(having first acknowledged receipt of his"investment plan")
"especially your plan to.....invest after two years an additional US3 million for the campus, infrastructure improvements and student dormitories are welcomed by our Government"
I'll spell it out for you and anyone else who may have difficulty reading. This is not a licence/charter fee; nor is it stipulated that it must be a "lump-sum payment"; nor is it expected right now, but in two years time. It is simply an enthusiastic and courteous acknowledgement by the Governor of the island of CMU's business plan, submitted to another govt. department.
Sure, they may be disappointed if he doesn't keep to that plan either in terms of time or money. But it is not a fee and there is no reason to suppose his proposals are legally binding.
Why does your inaccuracy matter? Because it is a gross one (and seems to be accompanied in your post by other assertions which might be questioned); and because there is a whole arsenal of true and valid criticism to throw at CMU and its spokesman without the need to muddy the waters with this sensationalism (with gutter press headlines included). This near hysteria just spoils and weakens the excellent job that VMD members did at the outset in exposing the fundamentally unsound and deceptive nature of CMU so far in its short life. There is a useful, short, pithy post from emt036 just below yours which summarizes most of the complaints.
CMU and RL have invited us to go through the looking-glass into a topsy-turvy, inverted world where people get a license to practise before their med. school has even got a charter to issue M.D.'s or perhaps before they're born? Please don't pay them the compliment of accepting the invitation to fantasy land.

studentdoctobe
09-19-2007, 09:43 AM
Whoa this is turning into a circus fest.

I remember a story I read somewhere in a news site;

A drug dealer and a drug user dialogue;

Drug user purchases low quality merchandise, goes home and uses it, discoveres it was "diluted" or mixed with something, whatever.

Next they call the drug dealer to refund their money, drug dealer refuses.

Drug user calls the cops; complains that he bought merchandise that was not up to par, walks them to the evidence to show them.

Cops proceed to arrest the drug user and pickup up the drugs and books it for eveidence. Hauls drug user to jail.




Essentially, RL has suddenly imagined that he has any leverage to sue anyone for bringing up information about CMU, and even threatens the lawyer phrase again, (never mind that he had thrown that out before and has yet to back up his threat by providing the contact details of the so called legal team).

RL you can sit there and fantasize about winning any case against any poster here for pointing out any details about the schemes you are running.

Fact of the matter is that you are far more culpable for so much more, any common sense should tell you that inviting a legal team into this mess has a huge potential to backfire and get you yourself in some very hot soup, refer to my little story above.

It is unimaginable that RL has somehow ignored the very "crimes" he has committed that are under his very nose and somehow managed to look beyond that to envision that he can or will get his day in court.

You need a reality check, so go ahead and get a legal team and with a countersuit see how far you can go. If not then do what you do best, avoiding questions that will expose your inconsistencies with any excuse you can come up with.

Keep a list RL and make sure to take it to court with you, unlike VMD, you can't double talk your way out of the legal system; Plagarizm, financial "fraud", "*****" by receiving, several counts of deception, several verbal, written and implied lies, masking the truth on your website and making claims to things you have not even achieved yet, i.e claiming to be IMED listed, claiming to have a charter, claiming clinicals locations and affiliation with hospitals that have never even heard of you, while others have downright blacklisted you (which might I remind you, you have recently conceded to and reluctantly corrected some, but not all of them) the list goes on.

Several posters have suddenly become experts in the law profession, ironically none of them are concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here. You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none, but not both.

Let the lawyers be the ones to decide what is what, all these "conclusions" are guessing at best. Your opinion of what is an "allegation" or not is simply that, your opinion.

Hirizal jumps out guns blazing, forgetting that he is actually a victim of the institution he is attempting to defend, but too gullible and deluded to figure it out yet. Oct 1st, 11 days and counting. You just shot yourself in the foot.

Reading your rants just confirms why you are susceptible to being a victim of CMU. Any one with any intelligence should not have to succumb to the circus known as CMU.

The fact of the matter is that without a charter, any school is wasting their time teaching students, students are wasting their time and money, no matter how much the students have been brainwashed to think otherwise.

Without being IMED listed, the credits for classes taken do not count for anything, nada. Waste of time.

Students are not eligible to sit for USLME exams nor can they go on to clinicals, nor can they become licensed physicians, in the USA.

No way around that!.

People can sit here and attack another person for posting the latest details, fact still remains, you have at some point or another said one thing or another that is as equal to or worse than what you are accusing them of, if not much worse, pointing a finger will not help you, because 4 fingers are pointing back at you.

CMU forum has enough information to drown CMU and it's list of cohorts, unless they are going to get the lawyers in here to start slicing and dicing the place up and start hauling people into the court, I suggest everyone pipe down and get back to the order of the day.

Which is discrediting CMU and all the "inconsistencies" within.

As usual, it is easier for CMU to distract from the issue at hand by double talking rather than to directly address the first post in this thread.

studentdoctobe
09-19-2007, 09:56 AM
The overall responses on this thread really does show that THE TRUTH DOES INFACT HURT LIKE CRAZY.

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 12:31 PM
"concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here."

Yep, I assume you tell that to people with tens of thousands of posts here in just a few years (or months) while other have barely a percentage of that, good point.

" You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none"

Kind of a shortsighted point. Saw the guy from Harvard that completed both degrees (JD and MD)almost simultaneously? There are many other with both degrees, and use them to some extent, more than the others. Nothing wrong with applying your knowledge if you earned it.

Max







Whoa this is turning into a circus fest.

I remember a story I read somewhere in a news site;

A drug dealer and a drug user dialogue;

Drug user purchases low quality merchandise, goes home and uses it, discoveres it was "diluted" or mixed with something, whatever.

Next they call the drug dealer to refund their money, drug dealer refuses.

Drug user calls the cops; complains that he bought merchandise that was not up to par, walks them to the evidence to show them.

Cops proceed to arrest the drug user and pickup up the drugs and books it for eveidence. Hauls drug user to jail.




Essentially, RL has suddenly imagined that he has any leverage to sue anyone for bringing up information about CMU, and even threatens the lawyer phrase again, (never mind that he had thrown that out before and has yet to back up his threat by providing the contact details of the so called legal team).

RL you can sit there and fantasize about winning any case against any poster here for pointing out any details about the schemes you are running.

Fact of the matter is that you are far more culpable for so much more, any common sense should tell you that inviting a legal team into this mess has a huge potential to backfire and get you yourself in some very hot soup, refer to my little story above.

It is unimaginable that RL has somehow ignored the very "crimes" he has committed that are under his very nose and somehow managed to look beyond that to envision that he can or will get his day in court.

You need a reality check, so go ahead and get a legal team and with a countersuit see how far you can go. If not then do what you do best, avoiding questions that will expose your inconsistencies with any excuse you can come up with.

Keep a list RL and make sure to take it to court with you, unlike VMD, you can't double talk your way out of the legal system; Plagarizm, financial "fraud", "*****" by receiving, several counts of deception, several verbal, written and implied lies, masking the truth on your website and making claims to things you have not even achieved yet, i.e claiming to be IMED listed, claiming to have a charter, claiming clinicals locations and affiliation with hospitals that have never even heard of you, while others have downright blacklisted you (which might I remind you, you have recently conceded to and reluctantly corrected some, but not all of them) the list goes on.

Several posters have suddenly become experts in the law profession, ironically none of them are concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here. You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none, but not both.

Let the lawyers be the ones to decide what is what, all these "conclusions" are guessing at best. Your opinion of what is an "allegation" or not is simply that, your opinion.

Hirizal jumps out guns blazing, forgetting that he is actually a victim of the institution he is attempting to defend, but too gullible and deluded to figure it out yet. Oct 1st, 11 days and counting. You just shot yourself in the foot.

Reading your rants just confirms why you are susceptible to being a victim of CMU. Any one with any intelligence should not have to succumb to the circus known as CMU.

The fact of the matter is that without a charter, any school is wasting their time teaching students, students are wasting their time and money, no matter how much the students have been brainwashed to think otherwise.

Without being IMED listed, the credits for classes taken do not count for anything, nada. Waste of time.

Students are not eligible to sit for USLME exams nor can they go on to clinicals, nor can they become licensed physicians, in the USA.

No way around that!.

People can sit here and attack another person for posting the latest details, fact still remains, you have at some point or another said one thing or another that is as equal to or worse than what you are accusing them of, if not much worse, pointing a finger will not help you, because 4 fingers are pointing back at you.

CMU forum has enough information to drown CMU and it's list of cohorts, unless they are going to get the lawyers in here to start slicing and dicing the place up and start hauling people into the court, I suggest everyone pipe down and get back to the order of the day.

Which is discrediting CMU and all the "inconsistencies" within.

As usual, it is easier for CMU to distract from the issue at hand by double talking rather than to directly address the first post in this thread.

studentdoctobe
09-19-2007, 12:47 PM
"concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here."

Yep, I assume you tell that to people with tens of thousands of posts here in just a few years (or months) while other have barely a percentage of that, good point.

" You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none"

Kind of a shortsighted point. Saw the guy from Harvard that completed both degrees (JD and MD)almost simultaneously? There are many other with both degrees, and use them to some extent, more than the others. Nothing wrong with applying your knowledge if you earned it.

Max

Shortsighted? I think you might have missed my point by more than a mile.

Some guy in Harvard? try again when my statement applies to any of you on VMD.

studentdoctobe
09-19-2007, 01:21 PM
You are right. I consider myself very objective with this and any school, but Dru, you just made some serious allegations and as eastern2western says it may open a Pandora's box for you, VMD and all of us. Diploma mill, fraud, scam, dude, that is serious stuff that you will need hardcore evidence (beyond circumstantial) to prove them, other wise, kaboom! open Pandora. It happened to me dude, so I am talking by my own personal experience ( it took me while to handle it, and I do have legal experience, not to brag about it).

Good luck to all.
This is entirely too vague, vague enough to offer false hopes to the likes of RL.

Fact remains I'm sure you know exactly what you did that got you into hot water, insinuating an expertise in an area where you may have targeted someone and it burnt you is unfortunate, now unless that someone was as "dirty" as the individual involved in this case is, as is evident in this case, this individual going after the people they feel are targeting them, in this case will certainly backfire.

The thing is, if you slander anyone, without proof or evidence, they only have a case if and only if, what you have slandered them with is so far from the truth everyone in the courthouse can and will see it. There is never any smoke without a fire.

Not in a case where you make reference to an individual whom you know that if in the even that he so much as approaches a courtroom, even more damning evidence will be uncovered about their "business practices", that could infact support the so called slander and make it pointless to fight a slander case, and the case turns around on the individual and becomes a case of prosecuting the accuser.

So you need to take a close look at your personal situation and try not to compare apples to oranges.

diogenes
09-19-2007, 01:24 PM
Whoa this is turning into a circus fest.
I agree with that much. Although I'm not sure whether it is best described as circus, Mardi gras carnival or perhaps mob lynching: it has elements of all those things.

Several posters have suddenly become experts in the law profession, ironically none of them are concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here. This tired old argument has been much abused on VMD. Who are you to decide whether they are spending enough time on their patients, their studies or whatever? What fiendish methods have you at your disposal to adequately time their activities?

You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none, but not both.Looks good rhetorically. Alas, it is completely untrue.

Let the lawyers be the ones to decide what is what, all these "conclusions" are guessing at best. Your opinion of what is an "allegation" or not is simply that, your opinion.I believe this originated with Genossa Maximillian's warnings to posters to keep in mind the law of defamation when they get a little carried away with their adjectives. He also suggested that we should be mindful of the need to behave in a responsible, mature and professional way (my take, from memory, on what he wrote). An essential part of both the legal and the moral objectives above is a respect for the truth - after all, aren't we lambasting CMU for its lack of it? So, yes, there may be a few barrack-room lawyers amongst us; but it will do no harm if it moderates a sometimes irrational and intemperate debate.

People can sit here and attack another person for posting the latest details, fact still remains, you have at some point or another said one thing or another that is as equal to or worse than what you are accusing them of, if not much worse, pointing a finger will not help you, because 4 fingers are pointing back at you.I'm sorry that you see it as something as childish as finger-pointing; but retaliating with "4 fingers pointing back at you" is hardly the best way to make your case; in fact it just sounds intimidatory in its intent. Yes, I/we have done all sorts of things wrong in our lives - mea/nostra culpa: fact is though its got nothing to do with what we're talking about!
The original post made an assertion which was patently incorrect (as well as some others which I think were questionable). I did wonder if my reply was too harsh. However, the fact that she maintained her line and didn't review her supposed source, even after G-Max had questioned the likelihood, seemed a culpable carelessness. Why bother correcting it? Dubious and corrupt schools use any pieces of misinformation they can find on VMD to rubbish the whole forum. Likewise, not all prospective students are as enamoured with VMD as we are; they can and sometimes do ignore warnings about schools and justify this by pointing to innacuracies. Why give them the opportunity? If we demand the "truth" so righteously from the likes of CMU what gives us the right to dispense with it ourselves?
Also, why pretend that the hundreds of posts on this forum are all saying something new, original and important? The fact is mostly we're rehashing the same few major points again and again - it's quite rare for anything new to crop up.

CMU forum has enough information to drown CMU and it's list of cohorts,You said it! So we don't need to use misinformation.

I suggest everyone pipe down and get back to the order of the day.
Which is discrediting CMU and all the "inconsistencies" within.
This battle cry I find the most disturbing part of your post: it does sound a bit like the lynch mob or carnival atmosphere I mentioned at the start. So we must dispense with accuracy, truth etc. and get back to our god-given task of discrediting CMU at any cost? This is sounding more and more like the St. Christophers' forum of old; where there could be no middle ground - you were either for us or against us; where anyone disputing either party line was cheaply dismissed as either "cheerleader" or "basher". It has already dismayed me to see this mindlessness rearing its ugly head on the CMU forum (e.g. attributing some hidden and malign motive to Genossa Maximillian when he urged caution).

As usual, it is easier for CMU to distract from the issue at hand by double talking rather than to directly address the first post in this thread.
Which, as I've explained above, they will do with glee and aplomb if we don't respect the truth.

studentdoctobe
09-19-2007, 01:28 PM
I agree with that much. Although I'm not sure whether it is best described as circus, Mardi gras carnival or perhaps mob lynching: it has elements of all those things.
This tired old argument has been much abused on VMD. Who are you to decide whether they are spending enough time on their patients, their studies or whatever? What fiendish methods have you at your disposal to adequately time their activities?
Looks good rhetorically. Alas, it is completely untrue.
I believe this originated with Genossa Maximillian's warnings to posters to keep in mind the law of defamation when they get a little carried away with their adjectives. He also suggested that we should be mindful of the need to behave in a responsible, mature and professional way (my take, from memory, on what he wrote). An essential part of both the legal and the moral objectives above is a respect for the truth - after all, aren't we lambasting CMU for its lack of it? So, yes, there may be a few barrack-room lawyers amongst us; but it will do no harm if it moderates a sometimes irrational and intemperate debate.
I'm sorry that you see it as something as childish as finger-pointing; but retaliating with "4 fingers pointing back at you" is hardly the best way to make your case; in fact it just sounds intimidatory in its intent. Yes, I/we have done all sorts of things wrong in our lives - mea/nostra culpa: fact is though its got nothing to do with what we're talking about!
The original post made an assertion which was patently incorrect (as well as some others which I think were questionable). I did wonder if my reply was too harsh. However, the fact that she maintained her line and didn't review her supposed source, even after G-Max had questioned the likelihood, seemed a culpable carelessness. Why bother correcting it? Dubious and corrupt schools use any pieces of misinformation they can find on VMD to rubbish the whole forum. Likewise, not all prospective students are as enamoured with VMD as we are; they can and sometimes do ignore warnings about schools and justify this by pointing to innacuracies. Why give them the opportunity? If we demand the "truth" so righteously from the likes of VMD what gives us the right to dispense with it ourselves?
Also, why pretend that the hundreds of posts on this forum are all saying something new, original and important? The fact is mostly we're rehashing the same few major points again and again - it's quite rare for anything new to crop up.
You said it! So we don't need to use misinformation.
This battle cry I find the most disturbing part of your post: it does sound a bit like the lynch mob or carnival atmosphere I mentioned at the start. So we must dispense with accuracy, truth etc. and get back to our god-given task of discrediting CMU at any cost? This is sounding more and more like the St. Christophers' forum of old; where there could be no middle ground - you were either for us or against us; where anyone disputing either party line was cheaply dismissed as either "cheerleader" or "basher". It has already dismayed me to see this mindlessness rearing its ugly head on the CMU forum (e.g. attributing some hidden and malign motive to Genossa Maximillian when he urged caution).
Which, as I've explained above, they will do with glee and aplomb if we don't respect the truth.
Please, log off and try not to return to CMU forum, no need for hypocrisy.

How many of you exactly come here to empathise with CMU. Save the semantics.

The rest are just words, on a good day I could bother to respond to them, not today, if after reading my post and that is all you got from it, there is obviously no need to go back and forth with you.

lswiltshire
09-19-2007, 01:43 PM
I think that Diogenes and MAx have both spoken well.

I respect the very sound reasoning of Diogenes and the legal expertise of G Max.

No one wants CMU to fold more than me. CMU is to me a very great dissapointment. Initially I was enthusiastic about it, because I hoped that it would have nailed SJMS to the cross.

But instead CMU has displayed all the diabolical deviousness that RL learned on Bonaire from both the activitiers of SJSM and XUSOM. I had hoped that CMU would have run a good cleasn shop and send these two evil organisations into oblivion. But instead CMU is a thousand times worse!

However, CMU has done so much to discredit itself that there is no reason under the sun for Dru or anyone else to lie. All we need do is to consistently and consciensiously post the truth, and run them ragged. Close the school by informing prospective students until there are no students. It can be done, just as it has been done before.

There is a fixed cost to operate, once there are insufficient students to pay fixed costs the school must fold. Just be patient and practical and post perennially...........and presto we will choke CMU to death.

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 03:43 PM
You assumptions are , as usual, off the mark with all due respect you don't have a good idea on how certain things work or what you are talking so blindly about and even worse, don't want to listen about. There are lots of gray areas sir or madam. Lots of them, and me, Diogenes and some other reasonable people here know that things are not only black and white as you prefer to see them.


Cheers

Max



?
This is entirely too vague, vague enough to offer false hopes to the likes of RL.

Fact remains I'm sure you know exactly what you did that got you into hot water, insinuating an expertise in an area where you may have targeted someone and it burnt you is unfortunate, now unless that someone was as "dirty" as the individual involved in this case is, as is evident in this case, this individual going after the people they feel are targeting them, in this case will certainly backfire.

The thing is, if you slander anyone, without proof or evidence, they only have a case if and only if, what you have slandered them with is so far from the truth everyone in the courthouse can and will see it. There is never any smoke without a fire.

Not in a case where you make reference to an individual whom you know that if in the even that he so much as approaches a courtroom, even more darning evidence will be uncovered about their "business practices", that could infact support the so called slander and make it pointless to fight a slander case, and the case turns around on the individual and becomes a case of prosecuting the accuser.

So you need to take a close look at your personal situation and try not to compare apples to oranges.

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 03:44 PM
Amen to that Diogenes, amen to that.


I agree with that much. Although I'm not sure whether it is best described as circus, Mardi gras carnival or perhaps mob lynching: it has elements of all those things.
This tired old argument has been much abused on VMD. Who are you to decide whether they are spending enough time on their patients, their studies or whatever? What fiendish methods have you at your disposal to adequately time their activities?
Looks good rhetorically. Alas, it is completely untrue.
I believe this originated with Genossa Maximillian's warnings to posters to keep in mind the law of defamation when they get a little carried away with their adjectives. He also suggested that we should be mindful of the need to behave in a responsible, mature and professional way (my take, from memory, on what he wrote). An essential part of both the legal and the moral objectives above is a respect for the truth - after all, aren't we lambasting CMU for its lack of it? So, yes, there may be a few barrack-room lawyers amongst us; but it will do no harm if it moderates a sometimes irrational and intemperate debate.
I'm sorry that you see it as something as childish as finger-pointing; but retaliating with "4 fingers pointing back at you" is hardly the best way to make your case; in fact it just sounds intimidatory in its intent. Yes, I/we have done all sorts of things wrong in our lives - mea/nostra culpa: fact is though its got nothing to do with what we're talking about!
The original post made an assertion which was patently incorrect (as well as some others which I think were questionable). I did wonder if my reply was too harsh. However, the fact that she maintained her line and didn't review her supposed source, even after G-Max had questioned the likelihood, seemed a culpable carelessness. Why bother correcting it? Dubious and corrupt schools use any pieces of misinformation they can find on VMD to rubbish the whole forum. Likewise, not all prospective students are as enamoured with VMD as we are; they can and sometimes do ignore warnings about schools and justify this by pointing to innacuracies. Why give them the opportunity? If we demand the "truth" so righteously from the likes of CMU what gives us the right to dispense with it ourselves?
Also, why pretend that the hundreds of posts on this forum are all saying something new, original and important? The fact is mostly we're rehashing the same few major points again and again - it's quite rare for anything new to crop up.
You said it! So we don't need to use misinformation.
This battle cry I find the most disturbing part of your post: it does sound a bit like the lynch mob or carnival atmosphere I mentioned at the start. So we must dispense with accuracy, truth etc. and get back to our god-given task of discrediting CMU at any cost? This is sounding more and more like the St. Christophers' forum of old; where there could be no middle ground - you were either for us or against us; where anyone disputing either party line was cheaply dismissed as either "cheerleader" or "basher". It has already dismayed me to see this mindlessness rearing its ugly head on the CMU forum (e.g. attributing some hidden and malign motive to Genossa Maximillian when he urged caution).
Which, as I've explained above, they will do with glee and aplomb if we don't respect the truth.

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 03:46 PM
Short of throwing a tantrum you suggest Diogenes to log off? Reminds of RL.


Please, log off and try not to return to CMU forum, no need for hypocrisy.

How many of you exactly come here to empathise with CMU. Save the semantics.

The rest are just words, on a good day I could bother to respond to them, not today, if after reading my post and that is all you got from it, there is obviously no need to go back and forth with you.

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 03:54 PM
...I didn't miss your point, you are the one implying that people are so ignorant and ill educated that they can't do both things, being a lawyer and a doctor (you must be speaking for yourself I guess), I am counter arguing with an example, a guy from Harvard, and yes, there are a few here in valuemd that are both.

Cheers

Max


Shortsighted? I think you might have missed my point by more than a mile.

Some guy in Harvard? try again when my statement applies to any of you on VMD.

teratos
09-19-2007, 04:54 PM
I think some people get involved in this debate because they enjoy the argument, and some get involved because they truly feel CMU is a scam, and even 1 student who gets duped is too many.

I don't know about the facts behind a lot of what DRU posted. What I do know is that CMU doesn't have a charter, and without that they cannot provide a medical education. Since they are accepting money from people with the understanding that said people will be able to practice medicine in the US, and so far there is no evidence that the school has the ability to provide that, isn't that fraud? I think it is.

Max, maybe you can set me straight on this, but it seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud? It has neither a charter, nor an IMED listing. The prerequisites for granting an MD. All RL can do is post ad hominem attacks.... If the main points of Dru's arguments are verifiable, and they are by RL's own posts, can some of the finer points be grounds for a suit???

If the ma

eastern2western
09-19-2007, 05:08 PM
deleted due to confusion

studentdoctobe
09-19-2007, 06:16 PM
...I didn't miss your point, you are the one implying that people are so ignorant and ill educated that they can't do both things, being a lawyer and a doctor (you must be speaking for yourself I guess), I am counter arguing with an example, a guy from Harvard, and yes, there are a few here in valuemd that are both.

Cheers

Max
You have taken my words out of context and ended up CONFUSING YOURSELF COMPLETELY. :lol:

Try reading my post again and see if it will make sense a second time around. The part where I said, NONE OF YOU HERE ARE EITHER A DOCTOR OR LAWYER OR NONE, NOT BOTH.

Leave the Harvard guy and others out of it, YOU are not both a lawyer and a doctor, so.

You are the one that bear the marks of a lawsuit, how smart does that make you. :lol:

Just try not to get caught in THIS ONE AGAIN, at the rate you are going!

Out!

TonyIvey
09-19-2007, 06:20 PM
genossa I have a hard time keeping track of your views.i'm getting the impression of being rather two-faced.you are getting on the two sides of the fence when it's convenient. no offence.

eastern2western
09-19-2007, 06:51 PM
I am writing this message for all students who are attending or interested in a caribbean school's premed program because Dru's original post informed me that there are students attending CMU's premed program.
1) All premed units from a caribbean are expensier than what you pay at your local community colleges. Most us-tax-paying residents are entitle to the low-cost benefits of their local community colleges because a majority of the cost is funded by government' tax revenue. Private schools are much more expensive because their sole source of income is from the students. According to the CMU wbsite, the school's premed program is 4900 dollars a semester and 2200 dollars more for school dorms. Now, i am just using CMU just an example and I believe all private schools have similar rates. If u just spend that money on a regular cc, the 4900 dollars alone will be more than enough to cover at least 245 semester units of class at the rate of twenty dollars per unit (around where I live). If you fruther break 245 semester units into about 15 units per semester (minimum units in order to graduate in 4 years), then you are looking at about 16 semesters and that is about 8 years of community college at the rate of 2 semester per year. Thus, the moral of the story is the cost of one semester at a caribbean school is more than enough to pay fo all of the cost of your education at your local cc.
2) All premed units from any caribbean college are not transferable to any us colleges. US colleges do not care about which caribbean school you took your premed from and how much you pay for your units because they only care if your units are from their circle of approved schools. 100% of the time, those approved schools are schools from united states and majority of them are probably publically funded schools. If a student ever decides to go back to the states after so many semesters of premed in a caribbean school for what ever reason (party too much, girlfriend dumped because she realized that she likes girls better, no more money etc.) and decide to go back to the states to finish an undergraduate degree, then this person can count that period of time as one expensive vacation because all of those caribbean pre-med units are none-transferable. You can make all the crying and appeal you like, but those are the rules and they will never change.
3) Good luck to the students who are taking premed at cmu and let this post be a warning to any us students who want to jump the gun and ignore their local cc.
Conclusion
It is always smart to finish all of premed requirements in a cc first and then go into a caribbean med school after the necessary units are done. Folks, this is all politics and politics do not care about your grades or how much your pay for your caribbean units because it only cares about which school your units are from.

diogenes
09-19-2007, 08:04 PM
genossa I have a hard time keeping track of your views.i'm getting the impression of being rather two-faced.you are getting on the two sides of the fence when it's convenient. no offence.
It amazes and sickens me (every bit as much as I am disgusted by the antics of CMU) that people who try to have regard for all the facts, not just the convenient ones, are accused of fence-sitting. And what precisely is two-faced about his stance? Is he not making all the right noises according to your view of how the orchestra should be conducted? no offence.

stephew
09-19-2007, 08:10 PM
I will give you all one freebie- ANY violations of tos will result in an infraction.

diogenes
09-19-2007, 08:12 PM
Please, log off and try not to return to CMU forum, no need for hypocrisy.

How many of you exactly come here to empathise with CMU. Save the semantics.

The rest are just words, on a good day I could bother to respond to them, not today, if after reading my post and that is all you got from it, there is obviously no need to go back and forth with you.
"hypocrisy"- where? I haven't criticised you or anyone else for making legitimate points against CMU - especially if they add something to our knowledge. It should be quite clear that whilst I don't frequent this forum to "empathise with CMU" and don't expect others to either, I do care about truth and accuracy and so should everyone who wants to see VMD used effectively against charlatans.
"Semantics"- I'm not sure what that has to do with my post.
"just words" - I'm afraid these are all we have (you included), unless you want to organize a VMD posse to visit Curacao and wreak vengeance on CMU.

TonyIvey
09-19-2007, 08:20 PM
It amazes and sickens me (every bit as much as I am disgusted by the antics of CMU) that people who try to have regard for all the facts, not just the convenient ones, are accused of fence-sitting. And what precisely is two-faced about his stance? Is he not making all the right noises according to your view of how the orchestra should be conducted? no offence.
You shuld know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.keep your own and I'll kep mine.good.

Haiku
09-19-2007, 08:21 PM
I will give you all one freebie- ANY violations of tos will result in an infraction.

Is this a Wednesday night special on ValueMD?

eastern2western
09-19-2007, 08:21 PM
unless you want to organize a VMD posse to visit Curacao and wreak vengeance on CMU.

Dude, vengeance is a very strong word. Did CMU killed one of your relatives or love ones?

DOC.p
09-19-2007, 08:29 PM
CMU gets more hits and posts than any other thread as of late. i leave for like 3 hours, come back and there is 10 more pages written.

eastern2western
09-19-2007, 08:33 PM
The weird part is that most of the posts are from people who do not even attend cmu at all.

TonyIvey
09-19-2007, 08:33 PM
Dude, vengeance is a very strong word. Did CMU killed one of your relatives or love ones?I may be new here but I can't help thinking I really need to catch up on some of the older members here.a lot moe will be learned haha

DOC.p
09-19-2007, 08:36 PM
I may be new here but I can't help thinking I really need to catch up on some of the older members here.a lot moe will be learned haha
indeed

actually i'd say 90% of the posts are from those who are in no way affiliated with CMU. only RL and occasional student posts

eastern2western
09-19-2007, 08:45 PM
Eventually, the CMU's legeitimacy should be tested by the students' first board exam. I am sure that the school's students are probably going to finish their basic sciences soon and try to sit for the boards. If they can not sit for the boards due to CMU's legal problems, then I am sure that one of them will step up and post his opinion about cmu on valuemd.

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 10:15 PM
I do not to commit to any particular views because I am trying to be impartial, RL screws up I point it out, Dru screws up I point out, I screw up I would admit it. People seem to have a problem with impartiality these days I guess, it may be perceived as two-faced. The comment does not bother me at all. Thanks Tony! ;)


genossa I have a hard time keeping track of your views.i'm getting the impression of being rather two-faced.you are getting on the two sides of the fence when it's convenient. no offence.

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 10:17 PM
Again with your assumption. But that's ok, I am used to them.





You have taken my words out of context and ended up CONFUSING YOURSELF COMPLETELY. :lol:

Try reading my post again and see if it will make sense a second time around. The part where I said, NONE OF YOU HERE ARE EITHER A DOCTOR OR LAWYER OR NONE, NOT BOTH.

Leave the Harvard guy and others out of it, YOU are not both a lawyer and a doctor, so.

You are the one that bear the marks of a lawsuit, how smart does that make you. :lol:

Just try not to get caught in THIS ONE AGAIN, at the rate you are going!

Out!

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 10:51 PM
We have discussed the Dru's remarks. Check the replies to it by Diogenes, eastern2western and myself. They are pretty clear. For starters Dru blew the whole charter fee out of proportions with apparent sensationalist reasons, notice I say apparent. Dru obviously mis-read the whole business proposal, thought and considered it a fee and voila, posted it as a fact, it is pointed out to him that he has made a mistake in his interpretation, yet he posted is as a fact,which made him look as bad and ignorant as RL and his insane arguments. Two wrongs wont make one right Teratos. Not even if another Moderator is involved.

One thing is undeniable and simple to verify....WE ALL agree CMU lacks a charter and license, now the tricky part of it will be what will constitute specific intent to commit fraud or not. What will happen, hypothetically speaking if a charter is produced? A government official has already said that they are in the process of getting it. Can we agree to that? Or our blind anger towards CMU is not letting us see that? There is a possibility there. What will be the new allegations against CMU if they get a charter?

I am sorry, but I do not see this as one of those Nigerian Oil scam emails, this situation apparently is more complex than that because at first sight it look to me that RL is simply incompetent, immature, didn't knew what he was walking into (and still doesn't), went ahead with the idea, assumed way too many things and took his assumptions as facts. If anyone can point at his specific intent and conspiracy to commit fraud I will be the first one to compliment it. You want to say that, fine go ahead and say it. I won't. I want to see what happens with the dang charter thing before jumping into conclusions.

To answer your question..."t seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud?" By definition yes, however I have to ask : are we seeing A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised; do we know to a certainty that CMU and RL do not INTENT to deliver on their promise? Thats is what holds me back Teratos, that is the question that bothers deep in my mind.

Your other question..." can some of the finer points be grounds for a suit???" I would be very careful with the "they have criminally taken money from students" Very serious accusation that, if the charter is ever granted will be good ammunition for a potential lawsuit based on defamation which is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation.

Remember Delphi School of medicine? Some people, myself included were forced by VMD administration to modify similar comments because they (Delphi) threatened with legal action.

What should have been done is very simple: Clear all the red tape THEN, only then open the school. But that did not happened and irreparable damage has been done.

Good night to all!

Max



I think some people get involved in this debate because they enjoy the argument, and some get involved because they truly feel CMU is a scam, and even 1 student who gets duped is too many.

I don't know about the facts behind a lot of what DRU posted. What I do know is that CMU doesn't have a charter, and without that they cannot provide a medical education. Since they are accepting money from people with the understanding that said people will be able to practice medicine in the US, and so far there is no evidence that the school has the ability to provide that, isn't that fraud? I think it is.

Max, maybe you can set me straight on this, but it seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud? It has neither a charter, nor an IMED listing. The prerequisites for granting an MD. All RL can do is post ad hominem attacks.... If the main points of Dru's arguments are verifiable, and they are by RL's own posts, can some of the finer points be grounds for a suit???

If the ma

rokshana
09-19-2007, 10:57 PM
talk about beating a dead horse....

maximillian genossa
09-19-2007, 11:16 PM
I said that myself and here I am like a perfect bum beating it all over again :shock:

Guess I got addicted....HELP!!!!!


talk about beating a dead horse....

eastern2western
09-19-2007, 11:17 PM
We have discussed the Dru's remarks. Check the replies to it by Diogenes, eastern2western and myself. They are pretty clear. For starters Dru blew the whole charter fee out of proportions with apparent sensationalist reasons, notice I say apparent. Dru obviously mis-read the whole business proposal, thought and considered it a fee and voila, posted it as a fact, it is pointed out to him that he has made a mistake in his interpretation, yet he posted is as a fact,which is as bad as RL and his inane arguments. If it would have been RL, well, we have an entire forum that is self explanatory on what would have happened. Two wrongs wont make one right Teratos. Not even if another Moderator is involved.

One thing is undeniable and simple to verify....WE ALL agree CMU lacks a charter and license, now the tricky part of it will be what will constitute specific intent to commit fraud or not. What will happen, hypothetically speaking if a charter is produced? A government official has already said that they are in the process of getting it. Can we agree to that? Or our blind anger towards CMU is not letting us see that? There is a possibility there. What will be the new allegations against CMU if they get a charter?

I am sorry, but I do not see this as one of those Nigerian Oil scam emails, this situation apparently is more complex than that because at first sight it look to me that RL is simply incompetent, immature, didn't knew what he was walking into (and still doesn't), went ahead with the idea, assumed way too many things and took his assumptions as facts. If anyone can point at his specific intent and conspiracy to commit fraud I will be the first one to compliment it. You want to say that, fine go ahead and say it. I won't. I want to see what happens with the dang charter thing before jumping into conclusions.

To answer your question..."t seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud?" By definition yes, however I have to ask : are we seeing A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised; do we know to a certainty that CMU and RL do not INTENT to deliver on their promise? Thats is what holds me back Teratos.

What should have been done is very simple: Clear all the red tape THEN, only then open the school. But that did not happened and irreparable damage has been done.

Max
Speaking like a man with some legal background. I have to give you compliments because your words are very well chosen. There are some people around here are way too hot headed and it is time for them to calm down. Yes CMU has its fallacies, but it is not okay for other people make direct accusations about the school without some actual proofs.

Scott1981
09-20-2007, 05:19 AM
if they eventually get a charter (not holding my breath any time soon.... or even this year), the next issue will be their clinical setup..... or lack thereof. if they get the charter and true hospital affiliations..... then guess what..... they just met the minimum requirements for students to get licensed.

however, with all the double talk, dodging of questions, empty promises, self imposed deadlines that pass with excuses........ i dont know if these two things wil ever happen.

Maxinne
09-20-2007, 06:34 AM
Even if they get a charter, they will not survive.
By the time they get a charter, the damage to their reputation would be irreversible.
How can Enron come back and try to re-build again - impossible.
The stain of all the lies and shady tactics will be too deep to clean off.
The stigma of a shady man involved in the school can never be erased.
The shady man cannot be reformed - and for that they cannot stand a chance to reform the school.
The news of the scams would have travelled far and wide - no students will be comfortable of them being reformed - except the ones already there - and they will not remain there if the charter does not come soon enough.
The school is doomed for ultimate failure just by the nature of the way they run it.
They can never recover - fully.
They will close down forever - eventually.

Maxinne
09-20-2007, 06:47 AM
We have discussed the Dru's remarks. Check the replies to it by Diogenes, eastern2western and myself. They are pretty clear. For starters Dru blew the whole charter fee out of proportions with apparent sensationalist reasons, notice I say apparent. Dru obviously mis-read the whole business proposal, thought and considered it a fee and voila, posted it as a fact, it is pointed out to him that he has made a mistake in his interpretation, yet he posted is as a fact,which made him look as bad and ignorant as RL and his insane arguments. Two wrongs wont make one right Teratos. Not even if another Moderator is involved.

One thing is undeniable and simple to verify....WE ALL agree CMU lacks a charter and license, now the tricky part of it will be what will constitute specific intent to commit fraud or not. What will happen, hypothetically speaking if a charter is produced? A government official has already said that they are in the process of getting it. Can we agree to that? Or our blind anger towards CMU is not letting us see that? There is a possibility there. What will be the new allegations against CMU if they get a charter?

I am sorry, but I do not see this as one of those Nigerian Oil scam emails, this situation apparently is more complex than that because at first sight it look to me that RL is simply incompetent, immature, didn't knew what he was walking into (and still doesn't), went ahead with the idea, assumed way too many things and took his assumptions as facts. If anyone can point at his specific intent and conspiracy to commit fraud I will be the first one to compliment it. You want to say that, fine go ahead and say it. I won't. I want to see what happens with the dang charter thing before jumping into conclusions.

To answer your question..."t seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud?" By definition yes, however I have to ask : are we seeing A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised; do we know to a certainty that CMU and RL do not INTENT to deliver on their promise? Thats is what holds me back Teratos, that is the question that bothers deep in my mind.

Your other question..." can some of the finer points be grounds for a suit???" I would be very careful with the "they have criminally taken money from students" Very serious accusation that, if the charter is ever granted will be good ammunition for a potential lawsuit based on defamation which is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation.

Remember Delphi School of medicine? Some people, myself included were forced by VMD administration to modify similar comments because they (Delphi) threatened with legal action.

What should have been done is very simple: Clear all the red tape THEN, only then open the school. But that did not happened and irreparable damage has been done.

Good night to all!

Max
You try too hard you and apparently did not learn from your experiences.

Maxinne
09-20-2007, 06:47 AM
We have discussed the Dru's remarks. Check the replies to it by Diogenes, eastern2western and myself. They are pretty clear. For starters Dru blew the whole charter fee out of proportions with apparent sensationalist reasons, notice I say apparent. Dru obviously mis-read the whole business proposal, thought and considered it a fee and voila, posted it as a fact, it is pointed out to him that he has made a mistake in his interpretation, yet he posted is as a fact,which made him look as bad and ignorant as RL and his insane arguments. Two wrongs wont make one right Teratos. Not even if another Moderator is involved.

One thing is undeniable and simple to verify....WE ALL agree CMU lacks a charter and license, now the tricky part of it will be what will constitute specific intent to commit fraud or not. What will happen, hypothetically speaking if a charter is produced? A government official has already said that they are in the process of getting it. Can we agree to that? Or our blind anger towards CMU is not letting us see that? There is a possibility there. What will be the new allegations against CMU if they get a charter?

I am sorry, but I do not see this as one of those Nigerian Oil scam emails, this situation apparently is more complex than that because at first sight it look to me that RL is simply incompetent, immature, didn't knew what he was walking into (and still doesn't), went ahead with the idea, assumed way too many things and took his assumptions as facts. If anyone can point at his specific intent and conspiracy to commit fraud I will be the first one to compliment it. You want to say that, fine go ahead and say it. I won't. I want to see what happens with the dang charter thing before jumping into conclusions.

To answer your question..."t seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud?" By definition yes, however I have to ask : are we seeing A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised; do we know to a certainty that CMU and RL do not INTENT to deliver on their promise? Thats is what holds me back Teratos, that is the question that bothers deep in my mind.

Your other question..." can some of the finer points be grounds for a suit???" I would be very careful with the "they have criminally taken money from students" Very serious accusation that, if the charter is ever granted will be good ammunition for a potential lawsuit based on defamation which is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation.

Remember Delphi School of medicine? Some people, myself included were forced by VMD administration to modify similar comments because they (Delphi) threatened with legal action.

What should have been done is very simple: Clear all the red tape THEN, only then open the school. But that did not happened and irreparable damage has been done.

Good night to all!

Max
You try too hard you and apparently did not learn from your experiences.

eastern2western
09-20-2007, 09:34 AM
You try too hard you and apparently did not learn from your experiences.
He is not trying too hard. What he is doing is consider to be analytical approach and that is what lawyers do. Dru's original post has touched some very sensitive legal issues and it could poosibily be an invitation to a defammation law suit.

PaddyMelt
09-20-2007, 10:21 AM
He is not trying too hard. What he is doing is consider to be analytical approach and that is what lawyers do. Dru's original post has touched some very sensitive legal issues and it could poosibily be an invitation to a defammation law suit.


you guys are so funny. there is no culpability on this internet board for several reasons, not the least of which is that no one even had to sign-up with their real names. maybe rl could take legal action against vmd, but it wouldn't work in the US b/c cmu is registered as a business in curacao, and not in the US.

so, continue the legal blather, but all means, but remember that there is no case here.

jaywalk81
09-20-2007, 10:30 AM
:soap::jerry::jerry:


24-7 on channel VMD substation CMU forum.

does it really need 10 pgs on posts to convine some person that he/she is going get sued? talk about drama and entertainment.

eastern2western
09-20-2007, 10:36 AM
you guys are so funny. there is no culpability on this internet board for several reasons, not the least of which is that no one even had to sign-up with their real names. maybe rl could take legal action against vmd, but it wouldn't work in the US b/c cmu is registered as a business in curacao, and not in the US.

so, continue the legal blather, but all means, but remember that there is no case here.
You raise some interesting questions.

studentdoctobe
09-20-2007, 10:44 AM
you guys are so funny. there is no culpability on this internet board for several reasons, not the least of which is that no one even had to sign-up with their real names. maybe rl could take legal action against vmd, but it wouldn't work in the US b/c cmu is registered as a business in curacao, and not in the US.

so, continue the legal blather, but all means, but remember that there is no case here.
Oh they do it to feel important, no that they necessarily believe they have a case.

You have to understand, claiming knowledge or an expertise in an area helps bolster that feeling of importance.

You would think they already knew what you pointed out, but again, goes back to a need to just feel important.

studentdoctobe
09-20-2007, 10:50 AM
Even if they get a charter, they will not survive.
By the time they get a charter, the damage to their reputation would be irreversible.
How can Enron come back and try to re-build again - impossible.
The stain of all the lies and shady tactics will be too deep to clean off.
The stigma of a shady man involved in the school can never be erased.
The shady man cannot be reformed - and for that they cannot stand a chance to reform the school.
The news of the scams would have travelled far and wide - no students will be comfortable of them being reformed - except the ones already there - and they will not remain there if the charter does not come soon enough.
The school is doomed for ultimate failure just by the nature of the way they run it.
They can never recover - fully.
They will close down forever - eventually.

This makes sense because really it is not the charter that is holding them back from having 200 students by now and being successful, afterall they are doing all they can to move forward WITHOUT and DESPITE the charter.

It is infact their business practices and a willingness for one person to circumvent all legal steps and do things his own way, that is the reason they are failing.

So yes, even with a charter they really have no shot of making it.

It is sad to realize that by bypassing all the required steps, they have in essence set themselves up to fail.

jaywalk81
09-20-2007, 10:56 AM
yes please get max on this and ask for his legal advice and opinion. i cant wait for the next episode of this.
why dont we just start a thread in the relaxing lounge on what actions on vmd can bear possible legal consequences?

studentdoctobe
09-20-2007, 11:05 AM
Moreover, comparing this situation to say Xavier that they started without a charter and are now making it, I doubt Xavier had some of the issues that exist here, that are really the underlying points.

I doubt xavier lied all over the place about having a charter knowing they did not, I can imagine that even if they did not have a charter, that may have been common and open knowledge, acknowledging that they were working on it and actually working on it.

I doubt they plagarized other school's websites and on it, made outrageous claims they thought no one could discover.

Making these comparisons are really baseless, unless the situations were identical for the most part, and they are NOT.

These people can not claim to not have known what they were doing, they just were not counting of getting caught.

They ran out to VMD to brag about it and it backfired.

diogenes
09-20-2007, 11:09 AM
you guys are so funny. there is no culpability on this internet board for several reasons, not the least of which is that no one even had to sign-up with their real names. maybe rl could take legal action against vmd, but it wouldn't work in the US b/c cmu is registered as a business in curacao, and not in the US.

so, continue the legal blather, but all means, but remember that there is no case here.
At the risk of giving PaddyMelt more cause for laughter with "legal blather" I'd just like to question some of his own. I make no claim to being an expert in the law of tort- just curious.
Aren't you confusing "culpability" and traceability? If PaddyMelt libels on VMD don't the admin. have to hand over records of IP address etc?
As for the plaintiff, if RL is an American citizen can he not sue? Does he even have to be a U.S. citizen? Also, RL's "consultancy" seems to be closely involved in CMU (it has prominence on the web site) and has a U.S. address: depending on the precise nature of the libel would it not have some valid claim?
Finally, is that really correct that because CMU is a Curacao business it could not sue VMD in the States? I thought that foreign companies and individuals did just that quite often. Perhaps that's just here in the U.K.?

maximillian genossa
09-20-2007, 12:46 PM
A citizen of a foreign country may sue a U.S. citizen (an individual or a corporation) in a Federal District Court. See, Wright, Miller, and Cooper, Federal Practice and Procedure, Diversity of Citizenship, ß3604. The diversity jurisdiction statute, 28 U.S.C. ß1332(a)(2), provides that: "The District Courts shall have original jurisdiction of all civil actions where the matter in controversy exceeds the sum or value of $75,000, exclusive of interest and costs,Öand is between citizens of a State and citizens or subjects of a foreign State." (Emphasis added). This branch of diversity jurisdiction is usually referred to as "alienage jurisdiction." A person with dual citizenship will not qualify for alienage jurisdiction, but will be considered a citizen of the U.S. Mutuelles Unies v. Kroll & Linstrom, 957 F.2d 707 (9th Cir. 1992). In what federal district can the foreign national file suit? The general rule, and starting point for analytic purposes, is that a foreign national can bring suit in any district. Wright, Miller, & Cooper, Federal Practice & Procedure, Diversity of Citizenship ß 3604. This general rule is tempered, however, by a healthy dose of forum non conveniens. Courts have looked more favorably upon foreign citizens bringing suit in districts that have some identifiable nexus to the litigation. see Hadded v. Richardson-Merrill, Inc., 588 F. Supp. 1158 (N.D. Ohio 1984); De Melo v. Lederle Labs, 801 F. 2d 1058 (8th Cir. 1986); Friends for all Children, Inc. v. Lockheed Aircraft Corp., 717 F.2d 602 (D.C. Cir. 1983).

Of course there are defenses for it. The doctrine of forum non conveniens is frequently used by defendants to attempt to move actions filed in the U.S. back to foreign jurisdictions, and is a key part of any defense strategy especially if there are more restrictive laws in the foreing country. Of course we are hypothetically speaking here about the possibilites of CMU having a case. We can only wish it was the way you think it was paddy.

Those who I think really have a case are affected students. That will be another thread of discussion and I will be more than happy to help.

All this stuff is very interesting. Let's see how it develops.

Enjoy....cheers to all

Max




you guys are so funny. there is no culpability on this internet board for several reasons, not the least of which is that no one even had to sign-up with their real names. maybe rl could take legal action against vmd, but it wouldn't work in the US b/c cmu is registered as a business in curacao, and not in the US.

so, continue the legal blather, but all means, but remember that there is no case here.

maximillian genossa
09-20-2007, 12:49 PM
...'You would think they already knew what you pointed outYou would think they already knew what you pointed out"

Oh yes I did and replied to it. thanks for the reminder though!




Oh they do it to feel important, no that they necessarily believe they have a case.

You have to understand, claiming knowledge or an expertise in an area helps bolster that feeling of importance.

You would think they already knew what you pointed out, but again, goes back to a need to just feel important.

stephew
09-20-2007, 02:23 PM
You try too hard you and apparently did not learn from your experiences.
apparently neither did this user who is banned for multiple accounts.

mongo18
09-20-2007, 03:45 PM
The is the best thread ever, just for entertainment purposes. CMU should be VH1's new reality show...maybe Flava Flav could be the dean.

Obviously, CMU is a nightmare and makes all caribbean schools look bad...this is why we all have issues with CMU...it dilutes those good Caribbean Med Schools with good reps into just another crap "caribbean school"

I'm really not concerned with prospective students of this school, for if they are dumb enough to go there, they get what they deserve...Harsh? Maybe, but anyone with half a brain can plainly see that CMU is not the place for a medical degree.

What do current students there hope to gain? Were they that bad that they couldn't get in any other caribbean school with a charter? Are they pioneers? I don't understand what promises were made that could lure a future doctor to make such a bad decision?

Hirizal...What made you decide that this place was right for you. Seriously, not trying to knock you or other students, but what was enticing about this place? I'm just trying to understand.

So far, from what i have read, no one can get sued for liable...until they are proven wrong...This school has nothing positive going for it (maybe new basketball nets), so all the "hating" and "Bashing" are justified.

Please just explain why.

To everyone else...keep up the good posts...very entertaining!

eastern2western
09-20-2007, 07:53 PM
So far, from what i have read, no one can get sued for liable...until they are proven wrong...This school has nothing positive going for it (maybe new basketball nets), so all the "hating" and "Bashing" are justified.

Please just explain why.

To everyone else...keep up the good posts...very entertaining!
liable

Bound or obliged in law or equity; responsible; answerable; as, the surety is liable for the debt of his principal.
Exposed to a certain contingency or casualty, more or less probable; -- with to and an infinitive or noun; as, liable to slip; liable to accidentlibel (plural libels (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/libels))

A written (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/written) or pictorial (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pictorial) statement (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/statement) which unjustly (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/unjustly) seeks to damage (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/damage) someone's reputation (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reputation).
(uncountable (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#U)) The act or crime (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crime) of displaying such a statement publicly (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/publicly).Please choose your words correctly because liable and libel have different meanings. It is impossible to say that no one can get suit for libel because everything is litigational in the us. Here is another fact that you have to understand is part of Dru's post has already been proven false (2 million dollar charter fee) and that just show it to you why some people in here are trying to be the voices of reason.

brob311
09-20-2007, 08:34 PM
...This school has nothing positive going for it (maybe new basketball nets), so all the "hating" and "Bashing" are justified.

Please just explain why.



mongo, don't forget about the pimp tight white coats and youtube views that the school gave these aspiring students.

East to West... you won't find pimp-tight in your legal dictionary, so please spare us the Webster's

rasputindoc
09-20-2007, 08:37 PM
if the post hasnt been edited then I guess the moderator feels he/she didnt do anything wrong so let it be. I dont see whats the big deal

jaywalk81
09-20-2007, 08:45 PM
i love this thread. great for study break. so we have a lawyer character, a perhaps an english teacher, a plaintiff and a defendent. this is great. can i play the doctor?

Dru
09-20-2007, 08:48 PM
First, the 3.2 million is a figure that was told to me by a citizen of Curacao. This is the "usual going amount". The fact that the letter to RL states "$3 million USD over 2 years" was Curacao's offer to his inquiry about obtaining a charter. Unless things have changed from last week, CMU has made no application &/or investment to acquire a charter. I don't have time to contact the Curacao government to find out the amount they expect for a charter. Perhaps one of you can and then enlighten us to the precise figure.

Second, I have received no word to confirm that a faculty does or doesn't exhist. Students who have transferred out state they never saw more than 2-3 profs there.
Former students report that they barely had any classes last semester at CMU. Their studies were independent or in a "mixed" classrom. Credits for classes that have been earned at CMU by students who have transferred out to other schools have not been accepted by the schools that they have transferred into.

As I stated in my first original post..."It is my opinion...." The entire last paragraph of my OP is MY OPINION.

A forum is built to ask and answer questions and offer opinions.

DOC.p
09-20-2007, 08:54 PM
i love this thread. great for study break. so we have a lawyer character, a perhaps an english teacher, a plaintiff and a defendent. this is great. can i play the doctor?
can i be Greta Vansuskjhfdkfdhwhatever?

jaywalk81
09-20-2007, 08:59 PM
i declared this to be the "who" thread of CMU. since CMU likes to plagiarized and copy SGU stuff, might as well have its own "who" thread just like the one in the sgu forum

superhumper
09-20-2007, 09:43 PM
Maybe, but anyone with half a brain can plainly see that CMU is not the place for a medical degree.


One dude is asking another:

-How do we call caribbean med student with half a brain?

Dude answers : Gifted....

SH

eastern2western
09-20-2007, 09:53 PM
Thats what the Government is working on now.

"Students who have transferred out of CMU and have applied to other medical students have all been told that the classes and "credits" awarded by CMU do not count and are NOT accepted."

Thats not a proof that the clases wont count. Try to transfer to SGU and ask them if they will accept credits from other caribbean medical schools. They will tell you the same story.
Any reason why RL is banned again? How temporary banns can a person get before a permanent bann?

rokshana
09-20-2007, 11:06 PM
i think he was auto banned- he hit 6 infractions...

eastern2western
09-20-2007, 11:31 PM
i think he was auto banned- he hit 6 infractions...
I was kind of expecting all of cmu cheerleaders would return to this forum and argue with Dru about her findings. However, the turnout was way below my expectations.

studentdoctobe
09-21-2007, 03:21 PM
The is the best thread ever, just for entertainment purposes. CMU should be VH1's new reality show...maybe Flava Flav could be the dean.

Obviously, CMU is a nightmare and makes all caribbean schools look bad...this is why we all have issues with CMU...it dilutes those good Caribbean Med Schools with good reps into just another feces "caribbean school"

I'm really not concerned with prospective students of this school, for if they are dumb enough to go there, they get what they deserve...Harsh? Maybe, but anyone with half a brain can plainly see that CMU is not the place for a medical degree.

What do current students there hope to gain? Were they that bad that they couldn't get in any other caribbean school with a charter? Are they pioneers? I don't understand what promises were made that could lure a future doctor to make such a bad decision?

Hirizal...What made you decide that this place was right for you. Seriously, not trying to knock you or other students, but what was enticing about this place? I'm just trying to understand.

So far, from what i have read, no one can get sued for liable...until they are proven wrong...This school has nothing positive going for it (maybe new basketball nets), so all the "hating" and "Bashing" are justified.

Please just explain why.

To everyone else...keep up the good posts...very entertaining!

I definitely agree with your points.

alabi
09-21-2007, 04:10 PM
This school is fake, half of the people in my school know this and soon all students will know this.

eastern2western
09-21-2007, 06:47 PM
This school is fake, half of the people in my school know this and soon all students will know this.
which school are u from?

alabi
09-21-2007, 07:07 PM
which school are u from?
I go to school in Texas.

eastern2western
09-21-2007, 07:15 PM
I go to school in Texas.
How can students from texas know anything about some obscure caribbean college?

alabi
09-21-2007, 07:19 PM
How can students from texas know anything about some obscure caribbean college?
I'm sure you know a lot of students from US undergrad schools apply to Caribbean Medical schools.

eastern2western
09-21-2007, 07:24 PM
This school is fake, half of the people in my school know this and soon all students will know this.
I think you are exagerating a little. Only students who apply to medical schools are the life science majors, biology, botany, biochemistry etc, and those students usually do not accumulate to half of a school's student body.

alabi
09-21-2007, 07:34 PM
I think you are exagerating a little. Only students who apply to medical schools are the life science majors, biology, botany, biochemistry etc, and those students usually do not accumulate to half of a school's student body.
Are you serious??? Think outside the box.

eastern2western
09-21-2007, 07:39 PM
I already found my answer.

victor2md
09-21-2007, 07:41 PM
i tried to email one of the dean at the cmu but it goes to sadia vas. then i tried to email others and they all goes to sadia vas can someone from cmu explain this? only one that doesn't go directly to s**** v** is rl. can cmu expalin this? i am really confuse, because this would never happen at my school in the states. or does this happen in all carribean medical schools??

rokshana
09-21-2007, 08:13 PM
Are you serious??? Think outside the box.

are you serious? Half a school in texas knows about CMU?
are you at a really tiny school?

it would be a safe bet to say that i could go to any school in NY and ask a random student if they have ever heard of sgu (more likely than knowing cmu) and maybe 2 out of 10 would know where it was...nevermind cmu...

rokshana
09-21-2007, 08:14 PM
i tried to email one of the dean at the cmu but it goes to sadia vas. then i tried to email others and they all goes to sadia vas can someone from cmu explain this? only one that doesn't go directly to sadia vas is rl. can cmu expalin this? i am really confuse, because this would never happen at my school in the states. or does this happen in all carribean medical schools??


what on earth is s***a v*s???

DOC.p
09-21-2007, 08:27 PM
I'm sure you know a lot of students from US undergrad schools apply to Caribbean Medical schools.
yes but how are they going to know a school like CMU that just came on the radar. when i first considered the Caribbean route (before I knew of this site), the only school I knew of was Ross. It wasn't till I met someone at my interview that asked me if I was going to apply to SGU also...I was like where?

so the majority of US students really don't know much about the Caribbean route beyond maybe Ross and SGU until they start doing more research. with that said, I HIGHLY doubt they've heard of a new start-up called CMU.

DOC.p
09-21-2007, 08:29 PM
what on earth is sadia vas???
and THAT is the question of the night

eastern2western
09-21-2007, 08:30 PM
are you serious? Half a school in texas knows about CMU?
are you at a really tiny school?

it would be a safe bet to say that i could go to any school in NY and ask a random student if they have ever heard of sgu (more likely than knowing cmu) and maybe 2 out of 10 would know where it was...nevermind cmu...
When I was doing my undergrad, a lot of my classmates (bio majors) had never even heard of an alternative route to going to a us medical school. Unless half of this texas school wants to go medical school, there is no way that so many people even heard of an obscure school like cmu.

victor2md
09-21-2007, 08:45 PM
s**** v** is one of the person on their foundation. and she is like on their web site as one or two of the offical. go to their web site CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Medical School, Medical College, Caribbean Medical School, Schools of Medicine, Medical School Top (http://www.cmumed.org) and look under contact list.

DOC.p
09-21-2007, 08:58 PM
i'm too lazy to send a PM, please edit your post for personal names are not permitted on this forum

rokshana
09-21-2007, 10:07 PM
i'm too lazy to send a PM, please edit your post for personal names are not permitted on this forum

i will..but in my defese, i had no idea it WAS a person's name.

is it just me? or is this forum at breeding ground for multiple accounts?

eastern2western
09-21-2007, 10:56 PM
this place is getting wackier and wakier. First it was the cheerleaders, then every moderator from other schools started to join the fight and now people are getting bann from left to right for multiple accounts. When will the madness end? Only thing we need is someone to say anything positive about cmu and all the bashing will start all over again.

DOC.p
09-22-2007, 09:18 AM
i will..but in my defese, i had no idea it WAS a person's name.

is it just me? or is this forum at breeding ground for multiple accounts?
i was mostly talking about the other guy, forgot about yours...but yeah i had no idea either.

hah seems to be true, i'm thinking about making another account myself :twisted:

DOC.p
09-22-2007, 09:20 AM
this place is getting wackier and wakier. First it was the cheerleaders, then every moderator from other schools started to join the fight and now people are getting bann from left to right for multiple accounts. When will the madness end? Only thing we need is someone to say anything positive about cmu and all the bashing will start all over again.
it will end when people start following the TOS. we can't control the users, we just enforce the rules.

Houston
09-22-2007, 10:45 AM
RL and his CMU are fake-- why???
RL has no qualification to hold a Medical UNiversity anywhere in the world and to distribute Doctor of Medicine degree for licensing in US.
RL is resistant to all third degree comments in VMD.
RL has no experience in teaching or medical practice.
RL was never allowed to join any medical school anywhere in the world.
RL is trying to change his name to Dr.R-- his friend's name--it will be another fraud case.
RL's previous employer confirmed that he was working under SJSM as computer clerk with a fake computer diploma and was fired.Now surviving on unemployment allowance( Refer: SJSMstudent in VMD).
RL's list of professors in CMU webpage are fake.Almost all are illeagal workers on tourist visa and Curacao Governmental agencies are investigating those fraud cases ( refer: DRU's discovery report).Most of the professors in that list refused to associate their name with CMU.
RL's new Executive Dean Dr.D.--Excellent research experiences on Fatty acids but No US recognized qualification in Medicine,No license to practice in US,Not passed USMLE ever,two fake qualifications FAMS,FICP from private agencies in India,not eligible to hold the post of Dean with honorary teaching experiences,No experience in teaching USMLE prep courses( Discovery report from Alan Hudson )
RL fired former executive dean Dr.J.P.for reasons unkown,may be poorly qualified.
Dr.T.P reappeared in website--surprising game plan of RL--the fake IT guy of CMU.
Dr.E.E ex-( excellent) Dean of St Mertinus fired and joined CMU part time ( Refer: DRU discovery report).Total teaching experience--Three years.
University Registrar--Mrs S.V: No University qualification,her previous employer confirmed about her three years experience as unqualified librarian in SJSM and was fired and issued a legal notice to stay away from SJSM campus and stop poaching SJSM students for CMU.Her special non-University qualification--family relation with governmental officers of Bonaire and close relation(???)with RL.( Refer: SJSMstudent in VMD)
RL--the fake IT guy enlisted MRS S.V twice,MR.G.M thrice,Mrs E.W thrice as his office staffs in Chicago office.A research on tax and work permit office in Chicago showed all fake names in duplicate and triplicate names.
Former SGA vice president Miss N.K left for St Martinus school.
Former SGA president Mr.T.H left for Xevier school in Aruba.Mr.R.S. left for St.Eustasius school,Mis L.P leaving next week,Mr.S.M and Miss F.K took leave of absence.Present SGA president Mr.S.L and vice president Mr.H.P received serious infarctions.L-O-L
Discover more--Discovery channel CMU for new students--to be continued.Next issue--count down for end of Sept.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon8.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon5.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon6.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
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"However,let RL show his miracle,get govt accreditation,listing in IMED/WHO--earn millions of US$ from students tuition fees and be rich by fast track-Bravo!!!" Best wishes.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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eastern2western
09-22-2007, 01:23 PM
This is the first post by houston
CMU is a new upcoming University.Let it grow.Let it go through some kind of grooming.Let it find its own way to face the bright daylight and hot sunshine.
Open house attendance will speak for the credibility of CMU.No kidding.
This is the second post:

RL and his CMU are fake-- why???
RL has no qualification to hold a Medical UNiversity anywhere in the world and to distribute Doctor of Medicine degree for licensing in US.
RL is resistant to all third degree comments in VMD.
RL has no experience in teaching or medical practice.
RL was never allowed to join any medical school anywhere in the world.
RL is trying to change his name to Dr.R-- his friend's name--it will be another fraud case.
RL's previous employer confirmed that he was working under SJSM as computer clerk with a fake computer diploma and was fired.Now surviving on unemployment allowance( Refer: SJSMstudent in VMD).
RL's list of professors in CMU webpage are fake.Almost all are illeagal workers on tourist visa and Curacao Governmental agencies are investigating those fraud cases ( refer: DRU's discovery report).Most of the professors in that list refused to associate their name with CMU.
RL's new Executive Dean Dr.D.--Excellent research experiences on Fatty acids but No US recognized qualification in Medicine,No license to practice in US,Not passed USMLE ever,two fake qualifications FAMS,FICP from private agencies in India,not eligible to hold the post of Dean with honorary teaching experiences,No experience in teaching USMLE prep courses( Discovery report from Alan Hudson )
RL fired former executive dean Dr.J.P.for reasons unkown,may be poorly qualified.
Dr.T.P reappeared in website--surprising game plan of RL--the fake IT guy of CMU.
Dr.E.E ex-( excellent) Dean of St Mertinus fired and joined CMU part time ( Refer: DRU discovery report).Total teaching experience--Three years.
University Registrar--Mrs S.V: No University qualification,her previous employer confirmed about her three years experience as unqualified librarian in SJSM and was fired and issued a legal notice to stay away from SJSM campus and stop poaching SJSM students for CMU.Her special non-University qualification--family relation with governmental officers of Bonaire and close relation(???)with RL.( Refer: SJSMstudent in VMD)
RL--the fake IT guy enlisted MRS S.V twice,MR.G.M thrice,Mrs E.W thrice as his office staffs in Chicago office.A research on tax and work permit office in Chicago showed all fake names in duplicate and triplicate names.
Former SGA vice president Miss N.K left for St Martinus school.
Former SGA president Mr.T.H left for Xevier school in Aruba.Mr.R.S. left for St.Eustasius school,Mis L.P leaving next week,Mr.S.M and Miss F.K took leave of absence.Present SGA president Mr.S.L and vice president Mr.H.P received serious infarctions.L-O-L
Discover more--Discovery channel CMU for new students--to be continued.Next issue--count down for end of Sept.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon8.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon5.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon6.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
-------------
"However,let RL show his miracle,get govt accreditation,listing in IMED/WHO--earn millions of US$ from students tuition fees and be rich by fast track-Bravo!!!" Best wishes.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Judging from the sudden shift of tone from the 1st post to the second post, I have to question the real identity of this houston person. Another problem I have is Houston's second post has way more information than Dru's original post and it is so detailed that only internal employees can get access to. Is it okay for me to assume that some of the posters could possibly be disgruntled ex-employees?

ay04
09-22-2007, 01:48 PM
so im guessing you guys wouldnt recommend me to apply here

eastern2western
09-22-2007, 02:03 PM
so im guessing you guys wouldnt recommend me to apply here
CMU: less than one year old, no track record, no 50 state approval, no graduates working in the hospitals (the charter thing is another arguement), no girls or guys for you to oggle at (it depends on your taste).
Ross, SGU or AUC= over thirty years old, successful track record, 50 state approval, graduates working all over us, large student body that is compose of different varietieties of nationalities and some schools are even well known for their parties(SGU).
Yes, it is true that the older schools charge more for their education. However, it is probably worth it later on because they will give you the freedom to practice in all 50 states and they are also much more stable comparing to a new start up.
Conclusion: The choice you make is completely up to you. If your focus is completely concentrated on short term benefits (save money on medical school), then you should go ahead with CMU because it does charge much less. However, you get what you pay for because it does not have the benefits older schools can offer you. Now, if you care about benefits that will affect you for the rest of your life (50 state approval and extra security), then sgu, ross, auc and sabba are your best choices.
Another thing you have to know is cmu has no access to federal student loans, that means your choice of lenders is very limited( Soprano connection: pay or break your leg: left or right). The interest rate private lenders charge for going to cmu is probably higher comparing to what they charge the students who go to older and more stable schools because cmu is so new that lenders are going to rank it at a higher risk level.
In comparison to cmu, students of older schools would probably be charge a much lower interest rate becausetheir school is more stable, a real campus and they have already establish a good track record of loan repayment with different lenders. In addition, schools such as Ross, SGU and AUC have access to federal loans, which can save you money in the long run because federal loans have a much lower rate comparing to private loans. Lower interst rate will probably save you more money in the long run because the loan amount probably requires you 20-30 years to repay it off and every percentage point counts when when the loan is so big (at least six figures) and the time period is so long.
I am just showing the most objective differences I know about both schools and I hope you will make your best choice according to your needs.

FireFighterMD
09-22-2007, 02:14 PM
[quote=eastern2western;674880]CMUno girls or guys for you to oggle at (it depends on your taste).
Ross, SGU or AUC= over thirty years old, successful track record, 50 state approval, graduates working all over us, large student body "that is compose of girls and guys, some schools are even well known for their parties."

yeah baby !!! :p
You forgot to mention the Latina options though --- found in Dominica and certified in SXM !!!:p

ay04
09-22-2007, 02:24 PM
I do need girls to oogle at

ay04
09-22-2007, 02:26 PM
As im talking about this I look out my window and theres girls in bikinis throwing a football. Im gonna miss FSU.

eastern2western
09-22-2007, 02:40 PM
As im talking about this I look out my window and theres girls in bikinis throwing a football. Im gonna miss FSU.
If you want to see the basic difference of the party scenes between sgu and cmu, u should go on youtube and check out the videos that are posted by dj siva. In his account, he posted videos he made during sgu and also videos he made for cmu and you will notice the immediate contrast between two schools in their party atmosphere. In the sgu videos, there are just loads of pictures that feature different girls everytime and may I just say that most of them are head turners. In contrast, the cmu videos only show one girl out of the whole student and that is probably the only one the campus has.

eastern2western
09-22-2007, 03:09 PM
I do need girls to oogle at
In the 70s, cults and communes used beautuiful girls to recruit young male members. This exact same old trick still works after so many years and it even works as an implicit tool of recruitement for a medical school.

ay04
09-22-2007, 03:30 PM
I guess id be easy to recruit for one of those cults lol.

victor2md
09-22-2007, 03:37 PM
its really sad that there is so many multiple account out there who just join just to make their point several times making it look like there are more than one or more people saying the same thing. the mod and others who are in control of the forum should do a better job with this. it seems like they are enjoying this circus more than others who are serious about the schools in carribean. vmd really need to show the user ip address or something before this forum becomes a joke like most of the school in carribean. i show this to my classmates in my school and they just start laughing at the whole thing. its sad because the school my friend is attending is really a good school (sgu) but this kind of forum makes you think that the all carribean school is a joke.

eastern2western
09-22-2007, 03:42 PM
I guess id be easy to recruit for one of those cults lol.
A straight man is willing to do anything for some free milk:D.

teratos
09-22-2007, 04:01 PM
its really sad that there is so many multiple account out there who just join just to make their point several times making it look like there are more than one or more people saying the same thing. the mod and others who are in control of the forum should do a better job with this. it seems like they are enjoying this circus more than others who are serious about the schools in carribean. vmd really need to show the user ip address or something before this forum becomes a joke like most of the school in carribean. i show this to my classmates in my school and they just start laughing at the whole thing. its sad because the school my friend is attending is really a good school (sgu) but this kind of forum makes you think that the all carribean school is a joke.


You're right. On the surface, it does make all Caribbean schools look like a joke. It is the epitome of what many think a Caribbean school is. Hurts us all, really. G

eastern2western
09-22-2007, 04:13 PM
You're right. On the surface, it does make all Caribbean schools look like a joke. It is the epitome of what many think a Caribbean school is. Hurts us all, really. G
I guess it is that whole concept of one bad one spoils a whole basket of good apples.

FireFighterMD
09-22-2007, 04:26 PM
I do need girls to oogle at

Thats the beautyyyyy of going to a LARGE medical school ....lotsssss of different chicks ...all colors , shapes , attitudes , sex appeal ;)

Of course the island of StMaartin has certified latinas :p
And Ross has the famous latina lounges :p

This alone is reason to go to Ross or AUC :p

FireFighterMD
09-22-2007, 04:29 PM
As im talking about this I look out my window and theres girls in bikinis throwing a football.

Oh you are the indoor type ? Guess you like Aunt Pam and like hairy palms ;)

Ross did have those female soccer matches --- was a lot of fun esp when they played in the rain and mud

eastern2western
09-22-2007, 04:36 PM
Oh you are the indoor type ? Guess you like Aunt Pam and like hairy palms ;)

Ross did have those female soccer matches --- was a lot of fun esp when they played in the rain and mud
If you go to cmu, you are basically stuck with few choices for the next four years. If u go to a bigger med school, then you get a las-vegas-style -all-you-can-eat-international buffet. Yes it is true that u pay more for the international buffet, but you are going to love all of the different choices you get to feast your eyes on.

Britimg
09-22-2007, 06:41 PM
Since rl was boasting a few days ago about the cmu forum viewing stat here is another to add to his tally. A forum titled CMU is fake...1st post 19th of september ..4 days later....172th post on 23rd of september...thats 43 posts a day on a single thread !!!! wow with these stats the students will be flocking into cmu now!!

alabi
09-22-2007, 11:13 PM
are you serious? Half a school in texas knows about CMU?
are you at a really tiny school?

it would be a safe bet to say that i could go to any school in NY and ask a random student if they have ever heard of sgu (more likely than knowing cmu) and maybe 2 out of 10 would know where it was...nevermind cmu...
you and everyone else here managed to find your way to this place, what makes you think other people can't?

rokshana
09-23-2007, 12:30 AM
you and everyone else here managed to find your way to this place, what makes you think other people can't?


well, let's see ...i'm a student IN a caribbean med school, though I didn't find out about this site until I was in the middle of my 1st year...

unless one is interested in med school and either thinks thay are not competitive for a US school or applied to US schools and didn't get in, most students are generally not looking at foreign schools

even those who are aware of the caribbean school have only heard of the big ones- sgu, auc, ross, saba, etc...certainly not some brand new, unaccredited school like cmu

i would imagine most caribbean med students have never heard of CMU! much less some school in texas- which one was it BTW?

eastern2western
09-23-2007, 12:59 AM
well, let's see ...i'm a student IN a caribbean med school, though I didn't find out about this site until I was in the middle of my 1st year...

unless one is interested in med school and either thinks thay are not competitive for a US school or applied to US schools and didn't get in, most students are generally not looking at foreign schools

even those who are aware of the caribbean school have only heard of the big ones- sgu, auc, ross, saba, etc...certainly not some brand new, unaccredited school like cmu

i would imagine most caribbean med students have never heard of CMU! much less some school in texas- which one was it BTW?
1) Only life-science majors care about medical school and not even 100 % of them wants to go to medical school.
2) Unless half of this so call texas school is biology majors, there is no way that half of the student body knows about cmu.
3) Caribbean schools usually is not a very well known alternative route. In my classmates, not every one of them has even heard of such alternative route.
4) I can tell that certain posters are either digruntle-ex-employees or people from opposing schools because their posts are simply too one sided or that they contain too much inside information.
5)Even the so call big four of caribbean are only known by a very small percentage of my classmates and other smaller schools are even less well known.
6) Just like your previous post about double identities, it is obvious that a lot of people who post in here are not perspective students. If you do not believe me, you should pay a little attention to their old posts. Some of them have a sudden change of tone from one post to another and that just proves that their identity is questionable.

spreebee
09-23-2007, 01:33 AM
The problem is that if Dru makes accusations about CMU without any evidences, then he can open himself up to legal troubles. Where is RL's legal team?

CMU is not a U.S. business... I don't think CMU can sue on U.S. grounds....

maximillian genossa
09-23-2007, 05:09 AM
You are not correct, I posted some examples on why on a previous post. HOWEVER.....if they (CMU) make such a bold move, they have much more to loose than to gain, especially during discovery time, a lot of things come out of the closet during discovery, especially skeletons, and we know skeletons don't like to live in closets.

Cheers to all!

MaX


CMU is not a U.S. business... I don't think CMU can sue on U.S. grounds....

Houston
09-23-2007, 07:51 AM
Hey! Dear Friends!
Houston is the home town of a junior student member of VMD----who visited CMU,SMU,XUSOM and SJSM recently to compare----AND---met disgrunted Ex-students of CMU in XUSOM and SMU-----made background check in Curacao and Chicago----AND--seen the legal notice against R.L and S.V on SJSM notice board---AND----finally decided to join SJSM--the cheapest and best one--L-O-L!!!----http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
---------------------------------------------------
However,let CMU grow with all the truths that hurt---http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
Best wishes to CMU students----More on CMU discovery channel!!!http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

rokshana
09-23-2007, 09:21 AM
1)
6) Just like your previous post about double identities, it is obvious that a lot of people who post in here are not perspective students. If you do not believe me, you should pay a little attention to their old posts. Some of them have a sudden change of tone from one post to another and that just proves that their identity is questionable.


i've made no post about double i dentities and your post just said basically what i said- why are you quoting me?

rokshana
09-23-2007, 09:24 AM
Hey! Dear Friends!
Houston is the home town of a junior student member of VMD----who visited CMU,SMU,XUSOM and SJSM recently to compare----AND---met disgrunted Ex-students of CMU in XUSOM and SMU-----made background check in Curacao and Chicago----AND--seen the legal notice against R.L and S.V on SJSM notice board---AND----finally decided to join SJSM--the cheapest and best one--L-O-L!!!----http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon6.gif


---------------------------------------------------
However,let CMU grow with all the truths that hurt---http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
Best wishes to CMU students----More on CMU discovery channel!!!http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

who is houston? who cares?

stateofequilibrium
09-23-2007, 12:04 PM
1) Only life-science majors care about medical school and not even 100 % of them wants to go to medical school.

Then what about the huge percentage of non-life science majors currently in medical school?

DOC.p
09-23-2007, 12:06 PM
Then what about the huge percentage of non-life science majors currently in medical school?
very true...i know a few English majors here...one econ major and two people that were accountants for a few years.

stateofequilibrium
09-23-2007, 12:08 PM
Some US med schools, the non-science majors outnumber the science majors

eastern2western
09-23-2007, 02:40 PM
Some US med schools, the non-science majors outnumber the science majors
I have to apologize for making a general assumption. However, my mainpoint is that some disgruntle employees or ex-employees are showing up in valuemd to release their animosity toward the school.

eastern2western
09-25-2007, 08:02 PM
It is almost the end of september.

Houston
09-29-2007, 11:27 AM
Dear Dru,Tony,SJSMstudent,Superhumper and all others who are concerned---may or may not like to overlook--L-O-L
CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Faculty & Staff - Dr. ***** ******, MD. (http://www.cmumed.org/academics/faculty/******.htm)
This is another website jurgon displayed by fake IT guy RL in his CMU website: http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
His new Executive Dean Dr.M.S. with his grayish biodata.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
I request all of you for a background check in State medical council of Ohio for a practicing license for RL's new executive dean of CMU--and find it is fake.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
I request you to find his name in the list of Ex-SGU graduates and ask for his MD degree certificate copy from SGU --find it is fake.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
I request you to find the details of the elder brother of this man in Ohio state medical council--find that his license was revoked for ?????http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
You may get a never ending list of false promises about clinical rotation sites.Ask for "Complex connections" from this man mentioning his brothers connexions--and find all these are fake.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Please send your representative under cover to meet this man and confirm all that are mentioned here.
I received the details from two disgruntled Ex-CMU students who left recently and visited SJSM for late admission.Mr H.,Ms.V and Mr.K--from SGA CMU guided them.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
Discover more and more on CMU discovery channel in next episode.
Sept dead line is ending -- what about CMU Charter!!!!No kidding!!
RL is disoriented now!!! Just give him a break !!! L-O-L.http://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.valuemd.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

eastern2western
09-29-2007, 12:12 PM
yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.
October first is getting very near. Where are u at?

MDXRS22
09-29-2007, 12:24 PM
keep on waiting:)

eastern2western
09-29-2007, 12:42 PM
It is very possible that we are going to get another "talk to the legal counsel" response.

Scott1981
09-29-2007, 12:46 PM
October first is getting very near. Where are u at?

dont worry, i was planning on making a thread specifically for hirizal's response come oct 1st.

eastern2western
09-29-2007, 12:57 PM
I am just waiting for a straw that is going to break the camel's back.

eastern2western
09-30-2007, 08:01 PM
dont worry, i was planning on making a thread specifically for hirizal's response come oct 1st.
Your threat was locked relatively fast.

hirizal
09-30-2007, 08:21 PM
Once again a deadline comes and goes and yet the same answer. No charter yet...but i was given a new deadline of end of oct. If you ask me personally if this is gonna happen...i must admit now i really dont think we will ahve it by the end of oct. Now all i can say is seeing is believing so untill i see it guess im out guys. I have been embarrased by CMU personal telling me a promise and then it not happening. Sry guys....but dont blame it on me for being wrong...i was just relaying the msg i was told by CMU personal.

eastern2western
09-30-2007, 08:34 PM
Once again a deadline comes and goes and yet the same answer. No charter yet...but i was given a new deadline of end of oct. If you ask me personally if this is gonna happen...i must admit now i really dont think we will ahve it by the end of oct. Now all i can say is seeing is believing so untill i see it guess im out guys. I have been embarrased by CMU personal telling me a promise and then it not happening. Sry guys....but dont blame it on me for being wrong...i was just relaying the msg i was told by CMU personal.
Get out while u still can because u do not want to accumulate a six figure debt for a fancy piece of paper that gets you nothing but rejections.

FireFighterMD
09-30-2007, 08:42 PM
This just shows how vmd is useful in exposing shady practices !

rokshana
09-30-2007, 08:51 PM
dj $iva melbourne/ los angeles (http://djsiva.blogspot.com/)

he's at it again--OMG!!!!!:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

Scott1981
09-30-2007, 08:52 PM
Your threat was locked relatively fast.

it still served its purpose (and it was a thread, not a threat :p).

hirizal, you showed some class by coming back to vmd and didnt make an excuse for the school. i commend you for that. my only recommendation would be to try to start at another school that can give you the tools to acheive your dream. there are plenty of them out there in the caribbean and at this point, most will offer you more than cmu can..... no empty promises..... but living proof of graduates who are at least in residency (and obviously sat and passed the usmle steps). you can do it, but unfotunetely i fear you will never be able to acheive that dream of yours over at cmu. when its time for you to register for step 1, these redundant promises about getting the charter at the end of each month will serve as a fatal brick wall to your medical education. it is still early in you education, switch roads to one that does not have an impenetrable barrier waiting in the middle of the journey. once you go down that far on the road with this school, there is no shortcut to another road (transfer). you will need to start from the begining all over again and inflate your debt.

Scott1981
09-30-2007, 09:04 PM
dj $iva melbourne/ los angeles (http://djsiva.blogspot.com/)

he's at it again--OMG!!!!!:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

thankfully i lost complete interest after his mcat epiphany and quit reading....... :bored::bored::bored::bored::bored:

eastern2western
09-30-2007, 09:32 PM
thankfully i lost complete interest after his mcat epiphany and quit reading....... :bored::bored::bored::bored::bored:
I am still appreciating his gangsta writing.

maximillian genossa
09-30-2007, 09:42 PM
Weren't those the words on a 1980's song? Anyway hirizal, you just put too much faith on the words of a man or an organization for practical purposes that has a PROVEN track record (not the kind of track record anyone would be proud of, but with RL , you never know) of just delivering that...empty promises. It is not up to CMU to decide or give a date when the charter or license to operate a business will be granted. That is up to the government and they do not have an idea either, if of course it ever happens. By now it will not surprise me after all this fiasco the the government of Curacao will back off the whole thing all together and send CMU to fry broccolli or sparagus.

Good luck to all.

still cheap entertainment nevertheless.

:roll:




Once again a deadline comes and goes and yet the same answer. No charter yet...but i was given a new deadline of end of oct. If you ask me personally if this is gonna happen...i must admit now i really dont think we will ahve it by the end of oct. Now all i can say is seeing is believing so untill i see it guess im out guys. I have been embarrased by CMU personal telling me a promise and then it not happening. Sry guys....but dont blame it on me for being wrong...i was just relaying the msg i was told by CMU personal.

maximillian genossa
09-30-2007, 09:44 PM
and he swears he is cool. The kind of coolness only a mother can love.




dj $iva melbourne/ los angeles (http://djsiva.blogspot.com/)

he's at it again--OMG!!!!!:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

eastern2western
09-30-2007, 09:50 PM
and he swears he is cool. The kind of coolness only a mother can love.
Hey guys, we only need 50 more replies to make this a number thread with the most replies in the cmu forum.

rokshana
09-30-2007, 10:08 PM
Hey guys, we only need 50 more replies to make this a number thread with the most replies in the cmu forum.


well there you go then!!!! that would make cmu legit indeed!!

eastern2western
09-30-2007, 11:08 PM
forget it

forget it

victor2md
10-01-2007, 01:24 PM
hey can you scan the check and post it on vmd please. that would make your story really true. its not that i don't believe you but there has been so many lies been told by both sides so far. such as double accounts and others by cmu admin. please scan the check and post it for all the vmd readers. thank you. also you can black out your name and your bank account so it doesn't show up just a check showing it bounced with rl name on it or cmu name on it. thanks again.

diogenes
10-01-2007, 02:10 PM
I'll be happy to. Last June some people from a company called "Alphatex Fabrics" -which is probably a fraudulent company-emailed me claiming they wanted to hire me to be a "payment officer." They said that they had a buisiness in the UK which did business with American companies who were their clients. The only problem they told me was that it takes too long in the UK to cash foreign checks-up to a month they claimed-so they would send me the checks of their clients. I was supposed to cash these checks in my bank, take out a 10% comission and wire the remainder to them at a location they gave me. I got a check in late June for $3,550 that had CMU written on the top-in other words it was a CMU check. It was signed by ***** *********. I did as Alphatex asked me and took out my commission and wired the remaining $3,200 to someone in Atlanta. This check then bounced so it was charged to my account. That's why I say I was ripped off for over $3,000. This is a scam that a lot of Americans have fallen for, there are many people like me who have lost $3,000, some have lost a lot more than I did for once the first one bounced I got out. As some other people have eluded to, Dateline MSNBC did an expose about these sorts of scams this year called "Nigerian 419 mail scams" though they aren't all Nigerians.
I emailed ***** Lewkoski himself and he claims to have nothing to do with it, but it's his signature on the front. I hope I 've made myself more clear East-West. I would urge you if you are attending CMU or anyone else who is to leave this school immediately and demand your money back. Mr. ********* will no doubt not want to do so but if everyone gets on him and also lets everyone know in your country he will be under a lot of pressure. As I said before there are two victims here-Americans like myself who fell for this scam and people who have paid up to $8,000 for one half semester-which is very expensive even if this were a real medical school by the way. Again I hope I have made myself more clear but please feel free to ask me whatever you like. Whatever I can do to maybe see if anyone can get their money back.

If you have any questions, you should just pm evilsax.


hey can you scan the check and post it on vmd please. that would make your story really true. its not that i don't believe you but there has been so many lies been told by both sides so far. such as double accounts and others by cmu admin. please scan the check and post it for all the vmd readers. thank you. also you can black out your name and your bank account so it doesn't show up just a check showing it bounced with rl name on it or cmu name on it. thanks again.
I'm honestly surprised that the VMD moderators haven't descended from Mount Olympus with a few thunderbolts for this one.

A scan of the cheque will not make anything "really true". Even the briefest scan of the internet, on the other hand, will provide lots of information about this kind of cheque-fraud: including the fact that the bouncing cheques are often counterfeit, yet look completely authentic - see here for just one example of many from the net Consumer Direct - Cheque overpayment scams (http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/watch_out/scams/cheque-overpayment/)
see also Wikipedia for more detail - Advance fee fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_fee_fraud)

Also, if Evilsax can see a facsimile of RL's signature on the internet (as many VMD readers will have done) so can Fred the Fraudster.

Has Evilsax had any feedback from the Police or his bank about the provenance and authenticity of the cheque? That would be more interesting - but only a little bit.

Despite the illusion of familiarity which VMD might create, the fact is I/we really know very little about RL and a good deal less about Evilsax (no offence). This is not the place to investigate this kind of fraud - still less to prosecute and convict.

The mind boggles at the possibilities. Will Doc and a crack team of Super Moderators be asked by the U.S. Justice Dept. to review the Warren Commission's findings; or tell us what really happened at Rosewell; or reveal at last the true whereabouts of John Lennon and Elvis? Go VMD supersleuths! Clouseau springs to mind.

Sorry to spoil another good hanging, but this has plumbed new depths of the absurd.

eastern2western
10-01-2007, 02:31 PM
hey can you scan the check and post it on vmd please. that would make your story really true. its not that i don't believe you but there has been so many lies been told by both sides so far. such as double accounts and others by cmu admin. please scan the check and post it for all the vmd readers. thank you. also you can black out your name and your bank account so it doesn't show up just a check showing it bounced with rl name on it or cmu name on it. thanks again.
I am only relaying a message from evilsax and I am not even sure how trustworthy the story is. If u guys have any questions, you should ask evilsax.

eastern2western
10-01-2007, 03:07 PM
I'm honestly surprised that the VMD moderators haven't descended from Mount Olympus with a few thunderbolts for this one.

A scan of the cheque will not make anything "really true". Even the briefest scan of the internet, on the other hand, will provide lots of information about this kind of cheque-fraud: including the fact that the bouncing cheques are often counterfeit - see here for just one example of many from the net Consumer Direct - Cheque overpayment scams (http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/watch_out/scams/cheque-overpayment/)
see also Wikipedia for more detail - Advance fee fraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_fee_fraud)

Also, if Evilsax can see a facsimile of RL's signature on the internet (as many VMD readers will have done) so can Fred the Fraudster.

Has Evilsax had any feedback from the Police or his bank about the provenance and authenticity of the cheque? That would be more interesting - but only a little bit.

Despite the illusion of familiarity which VMD might create, the fact is I/we really know very little about RL and a good deal less about Evilsax (no offence). This is not the place to investigate this kind of fraud - still less to prosecute and convict.

The mind boggles at the possibilities. Will Doc and a crack team of Super Moderators be asked by the U.S. Justice Dept. to review the Warren Commission's findings; or tell us what really happened at Rosewell; or reveal at last the true whereabouts of John Lennon and Elvis? Go VMD supersleuths! Clouseau springs to mind.

Sorry to spoil another good hanging, but this has plumbed new depths of the absurd.
Yes, evilsax just emailed me the scan of the bounced check and I do not know what to do with it. The check is exactly what he described to me in previous pms. Now, this is only a check and it does not prove cmu's involvement in this whole ordeal. Currently, I can not post this check in valuemd because it has too much of evilsax' private information(name, address, account number etc).
Moderators, I need your opinions on this because I do not know what to do with what I have in hand.

diogenes
10-01-2007, 03:36 PM
Yes, evilsax just emailed me the scan of the bounced check and I do not know what to do with it. The check is exactly what he described to me in previous pms. Now, this is only a check and it does not prove cmu's involvement in this whole ordeal. Currently, I can not post this check in valuemd because it has too much of evilsax' private information(name, address, account number etc).
Moderators, I need your opinions on this because I do not know what to do with what I have in hand.
Exactly. You said it! I wouldn't have thought you needed any guidance from the moderators. Better that this should have remained a PM - private. If and when there is hard evidence and anyone is actually charged then I'm sure that everything will be plastered all over VMD; and there will be much rejoicing and merriment.
In the meantime evilsax has whet the appetite and those of a voyeuristic disposition can have private viewings by email.

eastern2western
10-01-2007, 03:43 PM
Exactly. You said it! I wouldn't have thought you needed any guidance from the moderators. Better that this should have remained a PM - private. If and when there is hard evidence and anyone is actually charged then I'm sure that everything will be plastered all over VMD; and there will be much rejoicing and merriment.
In the meantime evilsax has whet the appetite and those of a voyeuristic disposition can have private viewings by email.
Currently, I do not know what to do with evilsax's scans. Yes, they look very legitimate, but they do not prove anything at all and they are not even relevant to valuemd. If any of you guys want more information, you should pm evilsax because I just hate to be the middle person in this whole thing.

stephew
10-01-2007, 04:47 PM
it is not at all appropriate to post other people's Pms without their express permission. though technically not against terms of use, it is very bad form. it also subjects you both to being held responsible for the content. ie any libel. i highly suggest you not post someone else's pms and CERTAINLY not scans of anything they sent you. you can easily be set up for big trouble. you are desperately unwise to be middle man.

eastern2western
10-01-2007, 05:07 PM
it is not at all appropriate to post other people's Pms without their express permission. though technically not against terms of use, it is very bad form.
it also subjects you both to being held responsible for the content. ie any libel. i highly suggest you not post someone else's pms and CERTAINLY not scans of anything they sent you. you can easily be set up for big trouble. you are desperately unwise to be middle man.
However, I did not posted his pm till I receive permission from him. In his PM, it also stated that he is willing to do what ever to help. How is it libel when evilsax is only describing how he lost his money to some scam? I posted the pm because I believe that it will help others from losing money into these types of fraud again. You are right that I should not be the middleman because I feel like I could misprepresent evilsax's original message. If any of you is interested in evilsax's whole story, the best thing I recommend is for you to pm him.

DOC.p
10-01-2007, 05:54 PM
I'm honestly surprised that the VMD moderators haven't descended from Mount Olympus with a few thunderbolts for this one.

i've been pretty busy lately with other god-like issues

DOC.p
10-01-2007, 05:56 PM
However, I did not posted his pm till I receive permission from him. In his PM, it also stated that he is willing to do what ever to help. How is it libel when evilsax is only describing how he lost his money to some scam? I posted the pm because I believe that it will help others from losing money into these types of fraud again. You are right that I should not be the middleman because I feel like I could misprepresent evilsax's original message. If any of you is interested in evilsax's whole story, the best thing I recommend is for you to pm him.
let this evil guy take care of it then, steph is right...it's not good to be the middle man on this one. if he wants to come forward post whatever, so be it and he will be responsible for that. i personally would not get involved.

eastern2western
10-01-2007, 06:11 PM
let this evil guy take care of it then, steph is right...it's not good to be the middle man on this one. if he wants to come forward post whatever, so be it and he will be responsible for that. i personally would not get involved.
You should pm him for a scan of the check. That thing looks very legit.

dt
10-01-2007, 06:16 PM
I'll be happy to. Last June some people from a company called "Alphatex Fabrics" -which is probably a fraudulent company-emailed me claiming they wanted to hire me to be a "payment officer." They said that they had a buisiness in the UK which did business with American companies who were their clients. The only problem they told me was that it takes too long in the UK to cash foreign checks-up to a month they claimed-so they would send me the checks of their clients. I was supposed to cash these checks in my bank, take out a 10% comission and wire the remainder to them at a location they gave me. I got a check in late June for $3,550 that had CMU written on the top-in other words it was a CMU check. It was signed by ***** *********. I did as Alphatex asked me and took out my commission and wired the remaining $3,200 to someone in Atlanta. This check then bounced so it was charged to my account. That's why I say I was ripped off for over $3,000. This is a scam that a lot of Americans have fallen for, there are many people like me who have lost $3,000, some have lost a lot more than I did for once the first one bounced I got out. As some other people have eluded to, Dateline MSNBC did an expose about these sorts of scams this year called "Nigerian 419 mail scams" though they aren't all Nigerians.
I emailed ***** Lewkoski himself and he claims to have nothing to do with it, but it's his signature on the front. I hope I 've made myself more clear East-West. I would urge you if you are attending CMU or anyone else who is to leave this school immediately and demand your money back. Mr. ********* will no doubt not want to do so but if everyone gets on him and also lets everyone know in your country he will be under a lot of pressure. As I said before there are two victims here-Americans like myself who fell for this scam and people who have paid up to $8,000 for one half semester-which is very expensive even if this were a real medical school by the way. Again I hope I have made myself more clear but please feel free to ask me whatever you like. Whatever I can do to maybe see if anyone can get their money back.

If you have any questions, you should just pm evilsax.


Looks like you got scammed. I would think it would be tough for you to prove that CMU and/or RL was involved.

I guess if you were to be involved in the cheque cashing business again, you should wait for the cheque to clear before forwarding the balance.

byteme
10-01-2007, 06:26 PM
Has evilsax been banned from valuemd? Why didn't he just post what he had to say, as well as his scanned cheque (not that I'm recommending this) instead of dumping this in your lap?

I understand that you're trying to prevent others from falling for this, but it seems to me that evilsax would much prefer that you tell his story and let you run the risk of infractions/libel, instead of him facing the fire himself.

Why would you take this sort of risk for someone whose trustworthiness you've openly questioned?

Just my opinion.

(Rhetorical questions, btw)

DOC.p
10-01-2007, 07:43 PM
You should pm him for a scan of the check. That thing looks very legit.
nah, i'm good...i really have bigger things to worry about.

if he posts it on here, i'll take a look at it but i'm not going to go out of my way to get it.

teratos
10-01-2007, 07:45 PM
I'm honestly surprised that the VMD moderators haven't descended from Mount Olympus with a few thunderbolts for this one.

If everyone would report such things, it would be quicker (not aiming this at you). It is hard to see everything from way up here on the mountain. G

stateofequilibrium
10-02-2007, 03:01 PM
It's Oct 2nd by the way

eastern2western
10-02-2007, 08:01 PM
It's Oct 2nd by the way
slow news day.

maximillian genossa
10-03-2007, 07:06 AM
nothing is going to happen any time soon. Heck, maybe not anytime later either!
It's Oct 2nd by the way

evilsax
10-03-2007, 07:56 PM
Diogenes where should we post questions about CMU fraud if not the CMU forum. I'm being honest with you guys. I'm an American scam victim. I don't necessarily want the whole world to see my personal info when I'm speaking out against criminals. I have no reason to lie about this and nothing to gain. I'm telling you a check bounced with RL's name on it. I emailed him personally and he claims someone forged his name. If anyone wants to see his actual message to me admitting this is a frauduelnt check but claiming it isn't his email me. And I'll send you a forward. Look if your a student at CMU this is a serious question for you to consider. When you graduate and apply for a medical postion and your diploma is not recognized it will be too late. I just want answers cuz I was ripped off. Until someone can recover my money I will have questions. And you students should keep in mind that CMU is not accredited yet the front blurb when you google CMU claims it is

Scott1981
10-03-2007, 08:13 PM
so contact the police and make a report about the bounced check. give it to them as evidence. they will then conduct an investigation. if RL claims that he was an identity theft victim, then he should have no problem with you filing a report. heck, he should file a report too.

eastern2western
10-03-2007, 10:13 PM
so contact the police and make a report about the bounced check. give it to them as evidence. they will then conduct an investigation. if RL claims that he was an identity theft victim, then he should have no problem with you filing a report. heck, he should file a report too.
Police does not take care of this kind of things because they are only responsible for criminal offenses such as murder, robbery and traffice tickets. The only department that is responsible for this kind of fraud is your local district attoryney's office, but the problem is they do not start an investigation unless there is a lot of victims file complains. Evilsax, the best you can do is file a complain with BBB and let them start a file on this company.

diogenes
10-04-2007, 05:54 AM
Diogenes where should we post questions about CMU fraud if not the CMU forum. I'm being honest with you guys. I'm an American scam victim. I don't necessarily want the whole world to see my personal info when I'm speaking out against criminals. I have no reason to lie about this and nothing to gain. I'm telling you a check bounced with RL's name on it. I emailed him personally and he claims someone forged his name. If anyone wants to see his actual message to me admitting this is a frauduelnt check but claiming it isn't his email me. And I'll send you a forward. Look if your a student at CMU this is a serious question for you to consider. When you graduate and apply for a medical postion and your diploma is not recognized it will be too late. I just want answers cuz I was ripped off. Until someone can recover my money I will have questions. And you students should keep in mind that CMU is not accredited yet the front blurb when you google CMU claims it is
Iím sorry that youíve been scammed Evilsax. Itís always a sickening experience Ė as well as leaving people out of pocket.
But this isnít the place to conduct investigations and certainly not to make the outright accusations that you did in your previous posts.
As I pointed out before, itís common for the cheques to be counterfeit and very credible ones at that. So Iím glad that in your latest post above you have acknowledged that RL denies any knowledge and complicity: it would have been better if you'd said that from the start.
Youíve done what you can here. People know to beware this and similar frauds; and if anyone does have any useful evidence they know to contact you or the police.
As Scott and I have said already you should contact the police and other appropriate authorities about this. I hope youíre able to achieve something.

evilsax
10-04-2007, 10:53 AM
Diogenes is right You guys don't know me that well, but how well do you know RL? Really? What do you really know about him? Why is he the only name on the campus faculty list that you really ever see?
I'm the victim of a scam. I don't know if I want to put out all my personal information while going after a criminal.
But just look at the evidence. RLs name is on a bad check. He claims that someone forged his name. But all I know is his name is on it and till he points out the forger I can't ignore him.
You guys want an education, have dreams, want to be doctors. That's cool. But what you have to ask yourselves is whether CMU really can get you there. It's not accredited, there is no charter. Yet when you Google CMU now the front blurb claims it is accredited. Before that blurb went up RL was telling people that most Caribbean schools aren't accredited.
Just look at the facts. I've given you some things to look at. Other people have given you some things to look at. Make your own judgement but make it informed, look at the real facts.

DOC.p
10-04-2007, 12:31 PM
that's interesting, i never noticed that. i thought i would attach just for reference....what say you RL, i didn't know CMU was "fully accredited". more lies....

stephew
10-04-2007, 12:37 PM
lets be specific. Accredited by what body? No offshore school is LCME accredited (Save PR). Someone can easily play with linguistics. Do you mean IMED? ECFMG etc etc. As far as I know cmu is accredited by no body, where as many reputable offshore school are by bodies that subsequent permit grads to get licensed and practice medicine.

stephew
10-04-2007, 12:38 PM
i will say that google search is only damning if somehow cmu is getting it keyworded when its not true. if its cached from older site etc, they may not have control over it now, however convienient that may be.

Scott1981
10-04-2007, 01:19 PM
sorry for going off topic, but i gotta say vista looks really nice on that screenshot.

ok, back on topic......steph, they claim they have no control over the stuff that was put on their actual website originally (ie, sgu's clonesite)

SChoir
10-04-2007, 01:21 PM
no control? RL updates it. He controls it. Who told you they have "no control?"

DOC.p
10-04-2007, 01:44 PM
CMU is extremely embarrassing. everytime i come across these lies and controversey, i just feel worse about the students that got suckered into going there. RL speaks of other schools like Xavier with charter problems, but what you don't understand is that they never came on to VMD advertising all of these claims.

you really set yourself up for failure here. i just hope that some day, this school actually pulls itself together, no more website lies, no more saying "oh we have a charter" or "oh well we don't really have it yet but we are affiliated with a school" blah blah.

get a legit charter, finally get listing in IMED and claim you have it when you ACTUALLY have it, work to improve your repuation and the education of your students. then things will be fine and i can stop feeling bad for your students.

SChoir
10-04-2007, 01:55 PM
read what i just posted. the thread...

lswiltshire
10-04-2007, 02:34 PM
Re Hire lswiltshire as your new executive dean. that should bring some credibility to your school.

Thanks DT for the recommendation. I will send you a 1 % fee.


Re The executive Dean is actually a man named ***** ******- 33 years old. I called the registrars office of SGU and confirmed. He was a grad in 2003. He is not licensed in any US state. Again, these are facts.

However, I do not know what they mean...

IF HE WENT TO A US OFFSHORE SCHOOL AND IS NOT LICENSED IT MEANS THAT HE PROBABLY HAS NOT DONE A RESEIDENCY THEREFORE HE CANNOT BE LICENSED

HE IS BASICALLY NOT MUCH OF A DR

HE IS THEREFORE UNFIT TO RUN A MEDICAL SCHOOL


TRUST ME I JUST WORKED WITH A MAN WHO GRADUATED FROM MED SCHOOL AND COULD NOT INTERPRET THE USMLE STEP 1 OBJECTIVES

HE MADE A GREAT HASH OF IT!! We have documented this in detail in the twp posts on the main page Government to Probe over 9000 hits and IMSA over 21,000 hits

evilsax
10-04-2007, 02:44 PM
Even hirizal who's supposed to be SGA Vice-President admits there are now only 4 students here. How can anyone trying to get a job get hired from a medical school with 3 other students?

lswiltshire
10-04-2007, 02:49 PM
If the CMU students are jumping ship, as you seem to be saying (and as I have been reliably informed) they can seek refuge at St Martinus, as they are already in Curacao.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THESE STUDENTS GO TO SJMS OR XAVIER OR ALL SAINTS.

DT Im sorry, since Im not getting this pick, I cant honor my promise to give you the deserved 1 % fee for your kind recommendation.

Scott1981
10-04-2007, 02:53 PM
no control? RL updates it. He controls it. Who told you they have "no control?"

search these forums. in the beginning, CMU got a lot of attention when they copied SGU's website WORD FOR WORD. RL claimed that he originally had no control over it.

seriously, you seem like you are new here. thats not a good or bad thing. just catch up on everything from the beginning and you will see why we all have issues with this place. start from page 1 on this forum. its tough to jump into an arguement like you are doing when you have no knowledge of the whole story.

just some advice.

emt036
10-04-2007, 03:11 PM
Their current meta description is:



Caribbean Medical University School of Medicine delivers an exceptional medical program that concentrates on basic medical sciences, taught by leading faculty at the state of the art Medical Campus in Curacao, and clinical rotations offered at affiliated hospitals in the U.S. CMU students may earn an M.D. degree in as little as 40 months and be eligible to take the USMLE Steps 1 and 2."

Different, but not any more truthful...

dt
10-04-2007, 03:38 PM
If the CMU students are jumping ship, as you seem to be saying (and as I have been reliably informed) they can seek refuge at St Martinus, as they are already in Curacao.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THESE STUDENTS GO TO SJMS OR XAVIER OR ALL SAINTS.
Or, mua-b




DT Im sorry, since Im not getting this pick, I cant honor my promise to give you the deserved 1 % fee for your kind recommendation.

Oh well, I could have used that to pay down my student loan...

Scott1981
10-04-2007, 03:43 PM
Or, mua-b




Oh well, I could have used that to pay down my student loan...

the irony with mua-b was that the dean of that school was an another caribbean grad (AUC) who did not complete a residency either.

evilsax
10-04-2007, 03:50 PM
DT why would it be hard for me to prove that RL is involved? It's his signature on the check?

dt
10-04-2007, 04:26 PM
DT why would it be hard for me to prove that RL is involved? It's his signature on the check?

Did you call the police officer investigating the case (as suggested by RL)?

I assume you have the bounced cheque. Does the signature match RL? Was the matching done by a handwriting expert? How did you get RL's signature beside the one on CMU website (I'm assuming it is on the website).

I assume that if the signature and cheque are real, the police would be very interested. (Or, you could file a lawsuit to recover your loss.)

You would also have to prove that RL got your $3200 that you wired to Atlanta(?). Was the Atlanta point connected to RL? Can you prove that?

Lots of work required to show that RL benefited. Maybe you have that already?

eastern2western
10-04-2007, 04:37 PM
Did you call the police officer investigating the case (as suggested by RL)?

I assume you have the bounced cheque. Does the signature match RL? Was the matching done by a handwriting expert? How did you get RL's signature beside the one on CMU website (I'm assuming it is on the website).

I assume that if the signature and cheque are real, the police would be very interested. (Or, you could file a lawsuit to recover your loss.)

You would also have to prove that RL got your $3200 that you wired to Atlanta(?). Was the Atlanta point connected to RL? Can you prove that?

Lots of work required to show that RL benefited. Maybe you have that already?
If RL is the one running the scamm, I am sure that he is not going to leave so much evidences (his name and school's name) on the check to incriminate himself.

evilsax
10-04-2007, 04:43 PM
I don't know for sure who wrote it but it's his name. Unless someone can point me to who really signed it I can't ignore RL.

eastern2western
10-04-2007, 04:47 PM
I don't know for sure who wrote it but it's his name. Unless someone can point me to who really signed it I can't ignore RL.
I feel your pain because 3500 dollars is a lot of money, but you just have to waite for the results of the investigation.

rlewkowski
10-04-2007, 04:53 PM
I don't know for sure who wrote it but it's his name. Unless someone can point me to who really signed it I can't ignore RL.

Let me ask you this evilsax.
1. Why did you cash a check that you never expected to receive?
2. Why did you transfer the money to someone that you didn’t know?

We had like more than 50 people calling us asking why we sent a check to them. We warned them not to cash those checks and asked to contact police immediately.

eastern2western
10-04-2007, 05:09 PM
Let me ask you this evilsax.
1. Why did you cash a check that you never expected to receive?
2. Why did you transfer the money to someone that you didnít know?

We had like more than 50 people calling us asking why we sent a check to them. We warned them not to cash those checks and asked to contact police immediately.
Once RL is back, a whole of people are returning to this forum again. We even aven an official from aua. Hi, Mr Tipton.

eastern2western
10-04-2007, 05:11 PM
blah blah blahn

evilsax
10-04-2007, 05:16 PM
I did expect to receive it RL. I was duped. I can admit that. I shouldn't have trusted these people but I did. I'm not used to hanging out with scammers. These people had emailed me with what they claimed was a legitimate job offer. I'm now wiser and poorer. But that doesn't change the fact that the person who wrote that check comitted a very serious crime. I was a dupe, but he's a criminal and so are his "business partners."







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