PDA

View Full Version : Awfully quiet.



Tritonesub
04-23-2006, 10:40 PM
Gee... how come no one is commenting about the FSMB's conclusion to require medical schools to be ECMFG certified and all rotations done at ACGME hospitals... and thats all. No push to adopt some list.... as some inferred... in fact they disapprove of denying applicants on the basis of schools. They like that the ECFMG evaluates individuals. They are also interested in clearing up discrepancies in language such as 'country of charter' that discriminate against offshore med schools in some state licensing laws.

So ... where do you people stand now with all of your doomsday misinformation?

pruritis_ani
04-23-2006, 10:51 PM
Show me a link, haven't seen it.

Regardless, it has a long way to go if it is merely being recommended by the FSMB. I would be surprised if these recommendations had any effect on the already tough states such as TX, CA, Co, PA, TN, etc...

Either way, even if this doomsday prediction turned out incorrect, the fact that SC is doomed kind of negates the importance of this! The school is dead, for many, many reasons. Time to bow out, Tritonesub....

And speaking of where people stand....lots of us are curious as to where the tafka, futurphysician (yeah, right!), bts, mtt's stand on the absolute meltdown of the school. I think that is a far more interesting group to speak to...what are they feeling about helping lure so many victims to SC? How do they plan to start residency in July? How do they sleep at night?

teratos
04-24-2006, 07:29 AM
Gee... how come no one is commenting about the FSMB's conclusion to require medical schools to be ECMFG certified and all rotations done at ACGME hospitals... and thats all. No push to adopt some list.... as some inferred... in fact they disapprove of denying applicants on the basis of schools. They like that the ECFMG evaluates individuals. They are also interested in clearing up discrepancies in language such as 'country of charter' that discriminate against offshore med schools in some state licensing laws.

So ... where do you people stand now with all of your doomsday misinformation?

What doomsday misinformation is that??

Since this is in the SC forum, may I remind you that SC students are currently not able to register for any exams through the ECFMG. So at this point, the outlook is still kind of "doom-ish", if you will. I know, I know...this will all be taken care of by next week. G

azskeptic
04-24-2006, 10:07 AM
FSMB jury is still out. I'll have a report shortly posted on how the Boston meeting went.

Plexus01
04-24-2006, 05:13 PM
Wow,I've read some of your remarks regarding Saint Chris and Dr.*****, and I've gotta tell you the're very misleading. What is your agenda here,your obviously not taking into consideration the students or alumni of the college such as myself. You have nothing to lose or gain by making such hateful and calculated remarks,or do you? None of your posts include one shread of evidence to back up any of your accusations,just a lot of rhetoric and hateful comments. Where are you enrolled in school? I'm curious. It seems you spend an awful lot of time trashing our school. What is it your trying to accomplish? Your certainly not interested in aiding people like myself who have spent four years in medical school. I think you should be mindful that some of us have more than one tertiary degree,and are not as ignorant or misinformed as you may think. I think before you post anymore hateful comments,I think you you should check with legal authorities such as the ECFMG before posting anymore baseless posts. Many of us already have, and are LAUGHING at your well worded **!

pruritis_ani
04-24-2006, 06:00 PM
Wow,I've read some of your remarks regarding Saint Chris and Dr.*****, and I've gotta tell you the're very misleading. What is your agenda here,your obviously not taking into consideration the students or alumni of the college such as myself. You have nothing to lose or gain by making such hateful and calculated remarks,or do you? None of your posts include one shread of evidence to back up any of your accusations,just a lot of rhetoric and hateful comments. Where are you enrolled in school? I'm curious. It seems you spend an awful lot of time trashing our school. What is it your trying to accomplish? Your certainly not interested in aiding people like myself who have spent four years in medical school. I think you should be mindful that some of us have more than one tertiary degree,and are not as ignorant or misinformed as you may think. I think before you post anymore hateful comments,I think you you should check with legal authorities such as the ECFMG before posting anymore baseless posts. Many of us already have, and are LAUGHING at your well worded **!
My concerns are less with alumni and current students than with potential students. While I feel some small sympathy for the situation you find yourselves in, I mostly feel that you all should have seen this coming. Many, many others did.

Over the years SC has been the focus of some very aggresive marketing on this site, mostly by SC students (and, no doubt the occasional admin posing as a student). During that time ANY expression of concern or doubt about SC and it's future where shot down aggressively by these cheerleaders. Go back and read the posts of mtt, bts420, futrphysician, etc.. to see what was said then. The fact that these people shamelessly promoted the school while refusing to acknowledge the risks, and at the same time attacked all that dare speak ill of SC inspired LOTS of posters to keep a vigilant eye on the school, and to warn students away.

Given the current situation, it appears that much of the concern with the risk of SC was well founded. Mr. L has always had questionable credentials, and his concern for students was clearly a distant second to financial gain.

My purpose on this board is basically to provide good information to current and potential offshore medical students. This includes keeping them informed of the risks involved with attending unproven schools, such as SC, as well as schools that have a disproportionate exposure to risk, again, such as SC.

Just for the record, ECFMG is not a "legal entitiy". They are a glorified secretarial service. Last time I checked, SC students couldn't register for exams with them. Now, with all the recent changes, they may be developments that I don't know of. Great. But, the fact remains that SC and it's admin in ALL of the incarnations (ie the Senegal version and the MUA-UK version) are institutions to be avoided. Given the huge failure that has already happened, logic would dictate that a simple name change is not going to do a whole lot for you. Given that sitting for these exams is the absolute minimum a medical school needs to offer, and that your school cannot even provide that, says a lot. So, even if by some miracle SC students can slip by the ECFMG and sit an exam and/or get an ECFMG certificate, there is still a LOT of doubt out there about degree validity. These issues will come up at licensing time, if you guys ever make it that far. And that is where the real problems will begin. Trying to hide under MUA-Belize's charter is simply a band-aid approach, and the real problems will just catch you further down the line. Sticking with the Senegal team will likely yield the same results.

So, good luck to you. Sorry you don't like what I have to say. But, the fact of the matter is that I feel more obligated to protect students from repeating your mistakes than I do to help SC students slide under the radar and sneak into the US system somehow. It is too bad that your "tertiary degree" didn't include a course on how to avoid making terrible decisions in offshore med schools.

Anyhow, I do see a pattern appearing, a familiar one at that....see a thread you don't like, (ie is not positive toward SC) so attempt to divert attention from it by making a personal attack. Sorry, doesn't work anymore. SC did this to death. Whether or not you think my posts are "ignorant" and "mis-informed" doesn't matter to me. If I make a mistake, please provide clear evidence of it, and I will happily recant my statements. So, go sling your mud at somebody else, thanks.It ain't gonna stick to me.

(btw, I am done with med school, in residency. I went to one of the MANY legit schools out there.)

Tritonesub
04-24-2006, 07:32 PM
FSMB jury is still out. I'll have a report shortly posted on how the Boston meeting went.

Is that of the whole meeting.. or the literally 15 minute breakout session which few attended that was dedicated to discussion of Undergraduate Medical Education and offshore schools?

azskeptic
04-24-2006, 07:47 PM
Is that of the whole meeting.. or the literally 15 minute breakout session which few attended that was dedicated to discussion of Undergraduate Medical Education and offshore schools? which one are you most interested in?

pruritis_ani
04-24-2006, 07:53 PM
Is that of the whole meeting.. or the literally 15 minute breakout session which few attended that was dedicated to discussion of Undergraduate Medical Education and offshore schools?

Hey, if you have information, post it. We would all love to read about it. (Even given that FSMB recommendations will mean little to an SC that can't even get grads the ECFMG certificates)

But, this reeks of another SC publicity scam. Make some nebulous claim online, while at the same time attempting to cast all those who doubt SC as "doomsdayers". If you have something, spit it out. Or is this just another "student" working hard at spinning the disaster that is SC??

azskeptic
04-24-2006, 07:57 PM
woman from CAAM, the new accreditation group in Caricom, spoke about their project. Currently UWI, Guyana, and SGU are set for evaluations. Most of the islands have signed on to the program which is using staff from LCME-Canada in addition to UK and a local doctor to evaluate schools to LCME standards.

I have heard NOTHING about the FSMB part of it. Their emphasis was on problem physicians and much of the meeting was centered around that.

Tritonesub
04-24-2006, 08:45 PM
what kind of problem physicians? Please post a summary of the entire 3 days if possible.

Tritonesub
04-24-2006, 08:47 PM
Hey, if you have information, post it. We would all love to read about it. (Even given that FSMB recommendations will mean little to an SC that can't even get grads the ECFMG certificates)

But, this reeks of another SC publicity scam. Make some nebulous claim online, while at the same time attempting to cast all those who doubt SC as "doomsdayers". If you have something, spit it out. Or is this just another "student" working hard at spinning the disaster that is SC??

There is no surprising info or SC publicity scam. It is just funny how many claimed that this meeting was going to focus on offshore schools and shutting them down. Here is basically what was presented in reference to offshore schools and licensing.... and it wasnt even part of the main meeting.

http://www.fsmb.org/pdf/GRPOL_Draft_SpcCmt_Eval_Undergrad_MedEd.pdf

azskeptic
04-24-2006, 08:47 PM
what kind of problem physicians? Please post a summary of the entire 3 days if possible. I am awaiting the notes of the meeting and will post them. Problem physicians were discussions of impaired physicians and problem physicians i.e. behavioral.

azskeptic
04-24-2006, 08:49 PM
There is no surprising info or SC publicity scam. It is just funny how many claimed that this meeting was going to focus on offshore schools and shutting them down. Here is basically what was presented in reference to offshore schools and licensing.... and it wasnt even part of the main meeting.

http://www.fsmb.org/pdf/GRPOL_Draft_SpcCmt_Eval_Undergrad_MedEd.pdf

FSMB schedule wasn't heavy on foreign schools this time. AIM had more.

pruritis_ani
04-24-2006, 09:46 PM
There is no surprising info or SC publicity scam. It is just funny how many claimed that this meeting was going to focus on offshore schools and shutting them down. Here is basically what was presented in reference to offshore schools and licensing.... and it wasnt even part of the main meeting.

http://www.fsmb.org/pdf/GRPOL_Draft_SpcCmt_Eval_Undergrad_MedEd.pdf

If you read the lines from 459-480 of that report, it is pretty clear that the FSMB values more than simple ECFMG certification and ACGME clinicals. Jpryor posted that link for me a while ago (btw, where is old Jp?), and it still appears to have the same recommendations on it.

I don't recall seeing anything written on these boards about the FSMB shutting schools down. However, from the link above, it is clear that the FSMB is in favor of tight regulation of international med school requirements, and in favor of a more stringent approach than simply passing the exams and getting an ECFMG certificate.

The FSMB does seem to realize that international schools have a lot to offer, and it does not look to me like they have any intention of "shutting down" offshore schools. However, they also seem to realize that currently not much is being done to prevent any carib flunky from buying a charter and opening a "medical school" on some island.

Regardless, none of this could possibly be construed as a positive for SC. The "doomsayers" still appear to be quite accurate, at least as far as SC is concerned.

azskeptic
04-24-2006, 10:16 PM
If anyone can show me that SC is still legally/technically alive I'd like to see it. My understanding is it no longer exists. There is Mua-Belize's program and the Senegal led new school (how is the new school doing with infrastructure?)

pruritis_ani
04-24-2006, 10:25 PM
If anyone can show me that SC is still legally/technically alive I'd like to see it. My understanding is it no longer exists. There is Mua-Belize's program and the Senegal led new school (how is the new school doing with infrastructure?)
Well, this leads to a couple of questions...

What is the MUA-UK status in the UK? How about with ECFMG? I would be surprised to see if they are just seamlessly allowed to merge with MUA-UK, and into full recognition. Is the ECFMG going to fall for this? Even if the students get to sit for USMLE's and get ECFMG certs, what sort of issues will face them come licensure? While the ECFMG may be hamstrung by the affiliation with MUA-B, I am pretty confident that individual states will not be so easily fooled.

As far as the Senegal version goes, I am a bit confused. What is this school offering? The GMC has them listed as unacceptable, and unless something has changed, the ECFMG has them blacklisted as well. Last I heard, most students were sticking with these guys, but it still appears as though results have yet to be positive.

I still REALLY cannot believe that there are actually students at either of these schools. It is great to see that a few folks are wising up and moving on/starting over, but what on earth could be the reasoning to stay? Especially if your choices are a school with NO credentials that offers NOTHING (ie Senegal) or a third rate (at best) Carib school that is desperate enough to accept you with credits that will likely be worthless come licensure times. It is like picking between dying by fire or drowning. Either way, the outcome sucks....

maximillian genossa
04-25-2006, 12:45 PM
In other words, perverts, drunks, drug-addicts, medicare cheaters, etc?





I am awaiting the notes of the meeting and will post them. Problem physicians were discussions of impaired physicians and problem physicians i.e. behavioral.

futrphysician
05-12-2006, 02:59 PM
As far as the Senegal version goes, I am a bit confused. What is this school offering? The GMC has them listed as unacceptable, and unless something has changed, the ECFMG has them blacklisted as well. Last I heard, most students were sticking with these guys, but it still appears as though results have yet to be positive.


Your above statement is just a plain lie. You have never called about the Dakar campus to the ECFMG and your statements are made either maliciously or out of ignorance. Either way, its still wrong.

empathy
05-12-2006, 03:04 PM
For a long time no one could even prove the Dakar Campus existed. The only official accounting folks had of it was published in the New Jersey article. I think the campus has grown a bit since then. How many students are there? Which came first the Luton campus or Dakar? St. Chris appeared in England around 1998 right?

Tritonesub
05-12-2006, 04:28 PM
you're confusing it with a different school that was chartered thru malawi. There was no SCCOM before 2000.

dt
05-12-2006, 07:57 PM
Yeah, there was a St. Chris in 1998. The St. Chris as it stands right now today underwent a few incarnations.

This is the first time though that it split into 2. Fascinating in a strange sort of way to watch.

pruritis_ani
05-12-2006, 08:32 PM
Your above statement is just a plain lie. You have never called about the Dakar campus to the ECFMG and your statements are made either maliciously or out of ignorance. Either way, its still wrong.

No need to call Dakar. I verified via email at ECFMG. This was a few weeks ago, so pehaps it has changed?? But, sorry, no lie here. Good try though. However, all the lies thus far have come from you, bts, mtt and your school.

solideliquid
05-12-2006, 08:41 PM
A good friend of mine told me a few days ago that a decision has been made. According to her, anyone graduating prior to Dec. 2005 from St. Chris can take the USMLEs.

Any confirmation on this?

microphage
05-12-2006, 09:10 PM
A good friend of mine told me a few days ago that a decision has been made. According to her, anyone graduating prior to Dec. 2005 from St. Chris can take the USMLEs.

Any confirmation on this?

why don't u go ask another "good friend"???

:twisted:

solideliquid
05-12-2006, 09:18 PM
I don't know anyone else from St. Chris, go troll elsewhere.

pruritis_ani
05-13-2006, 12:34 AM
A good friend of mine told me a few days ago that a decision has been made. According to her, anyone graduating prior to Dec. 2005 from St. Chris can take the USMLEs.

Any confirmation on this?

That would be an interesting twist. If that is true, and if the ECFMG starts recognizing the school again soon, it would appear that only a few students would be SOL...just those graduating between Dec 2005 up through whenever recognition is reinstated (if indeed it ever is).

Still, that would leave quite a few students without a valid degree, unless they just hold off on graduating until this blows over, if it ever does. I do think that the school will suffer greatly if those that matched are not available to start the positions they commited to. It is pretty unlikely that any of those programs will take a second chance on students, if they are left in the lurch like that.

The question has been posed before, but never really answered...to those that matched, what is the story? I assume that the ECFMG decision has prevented certs from being issued...at this point it is very close to too late for a July 1 start date...what is the story? Are you expecting to start work still, or is this year a wash?

solideliquid
05-13-2006, 12:42 AM
That would be an interesting twist. If that is true, and if the ECFMG starts recognizing the school again soon, it would appear that only a few students would be SOL...just those graduating between Dec 2005 up through whenever recognition is reinstated (if indeed it ever is).

Still, that would leave quite a few students without a valid degree, unless they just hold off on graduating until this blows over, if it ever does. I do think that the school will suffer greatly if those that matched are not available to start the positions they commited to. It is pretty unlikely that any of those programs will take a second chance on students, if they are left in the lurch like that.

The question has been posed before, but never really answered...to those that matched, what is the story? I assume that the ECFMG decision has prevented certs from being issued...at this point it is very close to too late for a July 1 start date...what is the story? Are you expecting to start work still, or is this year a wash?

Haven't I told you I'm a SMU graduate matched into psych? I'm starting my residency this july. I guess when someone comes on and posts something they have heard people automatically assume the "friend" and the OP are the same person. This is not the case. I am merely concerned for the students and graduates of St. Chris.

pruritis_ani
05-13-2006, 01:00 AM
Haven't I told you I'm a SMU graduate matched into psych? I'm starting my residency this july. I guess when someone comes on and posts something they have heard people automatically assume the "friend" and the OP are the same person. This is not the case. I am merely concerned for the students and graduates of St. Chris.
???

Did I imply that your friend and the OP were the same person??? Nope. Just made a comment on your post, and asked a question of St Chris students/grads in the match. Is that ok?

A bit hypersensitive, are we?

solideliquid
05-13-2006, 02:04 AM
Sorry I misread your post. Thought you were asking me directly.

futrphysician
05-20-2006, 06:07 PM
No need to call Dakar. I verified via email at ECFMG. This was a few weeks ago, so pehaps it has changed?? But, sorry, no lie here. Good try though. However, all the lies thus far have come from you, bts, mtt and your school.

Umm sorry, yer wrong. I won't get into a debate with someone who is crippled from an informational standpoint.

Having had conversations with ECFMG and not random emails from parties with no interest in the case other than gawking, I know far more about it than you.

Call me a liar again and we have some serious issues. Its called slander.

pruritis_ani
05-20-2006, 06:10 PM
Hey, I consider all the past claims about St Chris being a good school **. That is currently being validated by the ECFMG and GMC.

BTW, it was not random emails. I was refered to a specific party at ECFMG who was dealing with the St Chris issues.

I am sure you know far more about it than me. But, I am also sure that we cannot rely on you for the unbiased truth. You have plenty to gain by the school suckering in more students. I do not. So, excuse me for not having much faith in what you have to say.

futrphysician
05-20-2006, 06:14 PM
Again, you insist on slander. You have no idea of my motives what I am doing or who I am. Unless you are intimately involved in the discussions, details and reproachment, you haven't a real clue as to what is going on. There are two answers: one that they tell you and one that we know to be true.

pruritis_ani
05-20-2006, 06:16 PM
Again, you insist on slander. You have no idea of my motives what I am doing or who I am. Unless you are intimately involved in the discussions, details and reproachment, you haven't a real clue as to what is going on. There are two answers: one that they tell you and one that we know to be true.

Oh yes, we should not trust what the ECFMG say, but rather what a student of a failed medical school claims...riiiighht.

Call me crazy, but I value the words I get from those that matter far more than those from somebody attending a desperate school that is very likely on it's last legs.

ol' man
05-20-2006, 07:34 PM
Again, you insist on slander.

Actually, it would be libel. Slander has to be oral.

dt
05-20-2006, 07:39 PM
Actually, it would be libel. Slander has to be oral.

You mean, even in this, he is wrong??




:)

pruritis_ani
05-20-2006, 07:48 PM
Actually, it would be libel. Slander has to be oral.

So, is it libelous to accuse me of slander, when in fact the alleged slander was libel?

azskeptic
05-20-2006, 07:56 PM
still you have to admit, it is awfully quiet. ECFMG is waiting for documentation. As has been the theme of all of this, there is a lot of waiting going on. The people who matched are waiting to see if they are going to be allowed to do their residencies. SCIMD is waiting to see if they will get enough money to make their system work, as is the original SC system. There is a whole lot of waiting going on.
And I am still waiting for some honesty on the part of some....they have been awful quiet.

jubes
05-20-2006, 08:29 PM
does this mean each caribbean school will be evaluated by canada?

futrphysician
05-24-2006, 09:48 PM
No ASkep, it is not quiet, we just aren't tell YOU what is going on. We know your ulterior motives and others here. I have sent proper documentation to a certain person on here who can and will corroberate everything I have said to the letter. Ok save the slander libel thing since I am not a lawyer. I could care less really about definitions as such.

I have documented everything. I don't need anal retentive endorsements from people who really have no prevailing interest in the students sucess. Those who exist merely to gawk, point fingers, try and make their own egos asuaged at their surefootedness in making the call long before it even allegedly happened. Some of you are so narcissistic its amazing.

azskeptic
05-24-2006, 09:51 PM
It will be more clear what is going on,eh? If you don't have a decoder ring you don't know what I am talking about but the 160 students at the old version of SC and the 10 students at SCIMD know what I am talking about I think?

futrphysician
05-26-2006, 11:09 PM
Clueless, completely clueless.







Copyright © 2003-2018 ValueMD, LLC. All rights reserved.