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dt
03-24-2006, 09:06 PM
Are there any valid med schools where they can apply and do course challenges to get credit for the knowledge that they have? This way they dont have to start from the very beginning.

pruritis_ani
03-24-2006, 09:43 PM
Options as I see them...

1) Stick with current admin
2) Try to get Senegal to organize a new school under the St Chris charter
3) Transfer
4) Start over

Problems with 1 are obvious. Problems with 2 include the fact that they will likely get some grief for the credit they recieved from St Chris, and the fact that Senegal is certainly at least guilty of using the students as pawns, and may be more involved in this nightmare than we realize. Problems with transfering are pretty much limited to the St Chris credits, and how the may/may not affect licensing in the future. Problems with 4 are wasted time and money.

If I were a pre-clinical St Chris student I wouldn't even think twice. I would be starting over NOW, so as not to waste another minute. Those in clinicals are in somewhat rough shape. They may be better off transfering and hoping for the best.

I can see little reason to stick with current admin or Senegal, as there are no real benefits to the students that transfering doesn't also offer. And, there are clearly some risks to dealing with any of the people involved with the current St Chris.

BTW, if any of the current St Chris admin turn up at some different carib schools, I would HIGHLY advise you to avoid the new schools as well. These people should be drawn and quartered, and certainly do NOT deserve a chance to steal more money.

MDXRS22
03-24-2006, 09:46 PM
This is so much pain!
Start all over is the hardest of them all.

dt
03-25-2006, 10:18 AM
Okay, saw SGU offer (in one of the sticky threads). Probably the best standing offer right now. (wonder what's in it for them? and if the offer can be extend to students from other schools? ;-)

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 10:27 AM
Okay, saw SGU offer (in one of the sticky threads). Probably the best standing offer right now. (wonder what's in it for them? and if the offer can be extend to students from other schools? ;-)
The students must meet min addmission req for SGU and it seems like they have to start over? That would be for the best.

I was told AUA was on the campus before as well as MUA? don't know if that is true? Just a friend told me.

azskeptic
03-25-2006, 10:47 AM
apparently an unnamed Prof in Ohio is trying to steer the students to St. Eustatius where you pay your money and then you can sit for the USMLE.
Whether this will work or not is up in the air but I strongly suggest you research it completely. Could be another shell game and waste of money and time.

azskeptic,shaking his head

empathy
03-25-2006, 10:53 AM
I've noticed that this school has stepped up its advertisements on Valuemd in the last few weeks. Does anyone know who owns this school? If you don't - don't go. Something is fishy here. Can someone track down their business license and post it. Remember we posted the business license from Xavier and the admin from St. Chris names were on it. Beware of Xavier!

isa
03-25-2006, 11:05 AM
If St Christopher's credits are transferable, many caribean schools accept students even in their 4th year.
Some schools would even let the transfer students graduate only after 1 semester.
But if a students transfers late in the game, it is far better to redo 1 academic year (2-3 semesters depending on the school), as many liscensing boards will require the doctor to have done at least 1 academic year in the school he graduated from.
Having transfer credits from St Christopher is an important risk, but some students may not have the choice but to transfer their credits .
All the best

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 12:11 PM
apparently an unnamed Prof in Ohio is trying to steer the students to St. Eustatius where you pay your money and then you can sit for the USMLE.
Whether this will work or not is up in the air but I strongly suggest you research it completely. Could be another shell game and waste of money and time.

azskeptic,shaking his head
I've asked this a couple of times but in the last 3 months I read an article that all 3 of these schools were co started by a Dr. G from caribbean schools

Xavier
St. Chris
St. Eustatius

So are there real connections?

I would stay away from these if there are.


Found it an article recently: whole story: http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060226/NEWS/60226001/1116



The offshore schools are still distrusted by many in the American medical community, particularly because they are unregulated. Some states have even begun drafting lists of offshore schools whose graduates will not be considered for licensure. Massachusetts has not done that, but one of the first states to do it, Oregon, bans the school Dr. G is president of.

That school is St. Christopher's College of Medicine. It is chartered in the African nation of Senegal, and it has a campus in Luton, England. A recent British Broadcasting Corp. report cast doubt on the school's quality, and the British General Medical Council is investigating. Dr. G said the BBC report was unfair and incorrect.

He also has worked as the dean of clinical medicine at Saba University and was co-founder of the University of Sint Eustatius School of Medicine; each takes the name of the Caribbean island it is on. He was educated by more conventional means, though: He graduated from Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in 1973. He is now the chairman of the department of psychiatry at Heywood Hospital.

smoohead
03-25-2006, 12:27 PM
I'm not transferring. Due to recent developments, I can honestly say there is no need to do so. :D

Blocks81
03-25-2006, 12:31 PM
hey AZ Skeptic and anyone else, you guys know anything about st James? apparently these guys will make students pay money up front before even sitting for the usmle step I? what do you guys think about this?

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 12:36 PM
I'm not transferring. Due to recent developments, I can honestly say there is no need to do so. :D

Don't post false hope we have seen this stuff before. The GMC has ruled and you better hope it works out, but please wait to post until promises are facts. :rolleyes:

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 12:41 PM
hey AZ Skeptic and anyone else, you guys know anything about st James? apparently these guys will make students pay money up front before even sitting for the usmle step I? what do you guys think about this? Ask this in the St. James forum please, I go there and can tell you they expect the next semester's tuition during the time you take off to take step one. This is so they can be confident and report you as a student. The expectation is that you take a review course and take step one and pass within the one semester between 4th and clinicals. I see nothing wrong with that since you do not pay a dime for that time inbetween, nothing, except what you pay for your own review course. To me it seems very fair.

Why would they endorse you as a student for the application fee and promise to transfer and then they do you pass step one and go some where else without ever really being a student? Or after 4th you pass step one and just up and transfer at that time, when were you a student at that time? When I thought about it made sense.

ValuelessMD
03-25-2006, 12:42 PM
..........

pruritis_ani
03-25-2006, 12:55 PM
I'm not transferring. Due to recent developments, I can honestly say there is no need to do so. :D
Oh boy. The intrigue is killing me:rolleyes:

Unless the developments are a new administration, full recognition by the UK and free passes on Step 1 and 2, I can't see why anyone would stay here. At the very least, the name St. Chris will not be thought of favorably in the US for a long time. Or perhaps the recent development is that students at SC have decided en masse that they should all go to podiatry school? That is a far better idea...

Optimism is going to kill ever more lab rats! You have the chance to go to SGU (or ross, saba, auc, etc...). so go!

Posts like this are why it is very, very difficult for me to summon much empathy for SC students. They are pretty deep in denial.

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 01:00 PM
Mr. Black have you seen my kettle?

I don't know seems you tried to jump from one fire to another if I remember?

orangecrush
03-25-2006, 02:42 PM
My post is mainly for those who are in clinicals.

I know there are many people who are in clinicals right now, who have passed Step 1 and or 2. The issue of tranferring is different for us as we are close to finishing.

It is my understanding that there are schools that will accept us for transfer. Some are accepting credits others are not. I see the offer from SGU, and while awesome does not seem to be the best option for all of us. If we do transfer, the only state that I have read about so far that has a problem with licensure is California and possibly any state that follows California law in regards to previous course work done at our school.

"get license in easier state,practice for 5 years,get BC,then you can get license anywhere in the USA except Texas and CA .
States that uses CA are TX,NM,ID,VT,IN.
NM: ok with license 3 yrs elsewhere
ID: ok with license elsewhere 5 yrs
VT: not too many interested to go anyway"
-quote from state board forum on ValueMD

Most states look at what school we graduated from and obtained our ECFMG letter.

We all know that because St. Chris was not approved in California that we would never be able to get rotations, residency or licensure in that state until St. Chris became approved regardless of where we transferred to. This is the idea behind SGU's statement of a student trying to obtain licensure in CA and never being able to get licensure.

If one transfers with credits to Ross, SABA, St. Matts,...then we will be treated as one of their students according to ECFMG. Some states require a transfer student to be at the transferred school for a least 1 year. This is New York State requirement:

Graduates of Non-accredited Medical Programs
Satisfactory completion of the following:

A curriculum of not less than 32 months (4 academic years) in a medical program recognized as an acceptable educational program for physicians by the appropriate civil authorities of the country in which the school is located and receipt of the degree of Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Osteopathy, or the equivalent as determined by the Department. You must complete the final year of medical education at the school that awarded you the degree.
A satisfactory proficiency examination. Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) certification will satisfy this requirement.Therefore, I see no need to complete all credits with another school that is "50 state approved" if you are a clinical student that has already passed step 1 and has already begun rotations. If you have less than a year left of rotations then you may be ineligible for the state of NY as well. NY is very important for residency. They have more options for residency than any other state! Why would you transfer to a school that is not at least NY approved? These are SGU, Ross, SABA, ST. Matts...possibly MUA next month.

The best bet for those in clinicals that have step 1 are to pursue those schools that have NY and will give you credit for your clinicals. May not be one out there. SABA seems to be looking at people on a case by case basis. No title IV loans though, but other loan options available, not as expensive as Ross.

Next is to find the schools that will allow you to transfer into clinicals but won't give credit for any clinicals you have done. Ross, title IV loans, well known, but expensive. St. Matthews, maybe MUA next month when NY decides on approval.

Other schools may be ok....or just as bad as St. Chris was to their students.

Good Luck.

pruritis_ani
03-25-2006, 04:53 PM
A curriculum of not less than 32 months (4 academic years) in a medical program recognized as an acceptable educational program for physicians by the appropriate civil authorities of the country in which the school is located and receipt of the degree of Doctor of Medicine, Doctor of Osteopathy, or the equivalent as determined by the Department.
I think the bolded statement is where you may have problems. If you complete some time at the institution that grants the degree, great. But, if St Chris is deemed an unacceptable program, any credits you recieved will be null and void. Simply having the credit recognized by some St Elsewhere doesn not equal completing the credit at an acceptable institution. Basically, if you transfer to St Holy Ghost, and attend for a year, that may well be the only time at an acceptable institution. The board has suffecient grounds to deny a license right there.

Short cuts will kill you. Some schools may very well recognize your credits, but be very careful with what you think the states will allow.

I have heard rumblings about a certian school being willing to accept St Chris students in transfer, and all of the credits. In addition to the very strong likelihood that your St Chris credit will never be recognized in the states, students should also consider who the people are that run some of these schools. St Chris students may well come across some admin that used to be at SC, and are now at other schools. Are these really people you want to do business with?

My advice: don't waste any more time and money. Go to a good school, and start over. A few years now is a lot better than a useless MD after you finish residency. Assuming things would be fine is what got all of the SC students in the mess that they are currently in.

azskeptic
03-25-2006, 06:42 PM
Remember, there were probably people fighting with the band on the Titantic

http://www.titanic-titanic.com/titanic%20band.shtml

over which songs to play. The reality is that one should be spending their energy running, not waiting for someone to save you. The lifeboats are already leaving the ship. azskeptic


Oh boy. The intrigue is killing me:rolleyes:

Unless the developments are a new administration, full recognition by the UK and free passes on Step 1 and 2, I can't see why anyone would stay here. At the very least, the name St. Chris will not be thought of favorably in the US for a long time. Or perhaps the recent development is that students at SC have decided en masse that they should all go to podiatry school? That is a far better idea...

Optimism is going to kill ever more lab rats! You have the chance to go to SGU (or ross, saba, auc, etc...). so go!

Posts like this are why it is very, very difficult for me to summon much empathy for SC students. They are pretty deep in denial.

microphage
03-25-2006, 06:56 PM
Remember, there were probably people fighting with the band on the Titantic

http://www.titanic-titanic.com/titanic%20band.shtml

over which songs to play. The reality is that one should be spending their energy running, not waiting for someone to save you. The lifeboats are already leaving the ship. azskeptic

You've been watching too much TV.... NO TV FOR U

ValuelessMD
03-25-2006, 06:59 PM
..........

###
03-25-2006, 07:03 PM
.............

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 07:17 PM
Mr. Black have you seen your kettle?

Lets be civil please. You left the school before I did.

smoohead
03-25-2006, 07:45 PM
You misunderstand... I am not giving false hope, I am speaking purely for myself. And you guys are not HERE... the GMC ruling is not final. It's far from over. This is why I don't post on here any more!! Cuz of all the haters :P Please don't pretend to show concern by offering cute advice to transfer, you know you are all on here hovering for the WORST news possible. I had a back-up plan to go back to the US and do AMCAS all over again and I honestly don't think I'll need it. That doesn't mean I am going to say everything is ok. And that doesn't mean that I am going to sit here and recruit more students. People ARE transferring/have done so already... but many are now changing their minds (those who were on the fence before)... And a little optimism has gotten me this far... it wouldn't kill for you all to drop the skepticism for a little bit too... although, what is it to YOU? You don't go here... Seriously, crack a book and go study for a change. I'm just saying, good things come to those who wait. Oh, and btw, I'm surprised to hear YOU of all people, telling me that I am giving false hope, whuds...

Oh and one more thing.. the students at this school have been called many things.. but one thing we're not is pushovers. I've seen a lot of coming together and fighting in the past couple of months.. fighting so as not to become obsolete. We're not gonna jump ship that easily, not when there is still more than a hint of chance that there is something to salvage.

ValuelessMD
03-25-2006, 08:02 PM
..........

smoohead
03-25-2006, 08:04 PM
As for your clever Titanic comment, AZ... you either still are or were VERY recently in the London area. Besides this, you have TONS of leaks into what has been going on. Please don't pretend to still be thaaat clueless....

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 08:40 PM
Whuds,

My point was never about you leaving SC. One has to do what one has to do for any number of reasons. But, you brought it up, so I responded to it. It just so happen that the same response was multi-useful.

To clarify, then, what I was referring to was what seems to be an obvious attempt to be on the "right side" of the SC argument. I don't think I was the only one to pick up on this. But, no matter, it is after all, whatever floats your boat.

Anyway, I find it all rather predictable. Even the obvious absence of the likes of BTS and company.

I will, however, give you kudos on at least attempting to own up to it in your own way. Because as we all now know, anyone who question the "Masters of SC" were sure to be outed and ostracized. Seemingly it had become your turn when you left.

Go figure.

I really didn't just today change sides, I've never really been on one side or another but I was misslead at one time, over the course of last year while at the school even when talking to you my opinions and understanding of the school was changing, when I had my problems with SC there were some telling me not to go and go to the Carib. how terrible it is and so on, well it's not, and after being away and seeing more clearly and reflecting these last months I saw the problems and the actions of the Admin while I was there and what they have done since I left is amazing how they were able to run that school for so long, you yourself had told me that several times. I seem to remember some posts long ago by you I read before I came to the school where you debated and seemed okay there but I know you changed as well, My friend we all make mistakes some are harder than others,
This is a hard one.

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 09:02 PM
You misunderstand... I am not giving false hope, I am speaking purely for myself. And you guys are not HERE... the GMC ruling is not final. It's far from over. This is why I don't post on here any more!! Cuz of all the haters :P Please don't pretend to show concern by offering cute advice to transfer, you know you are all on here hovering for the WORST news possible. I had a back-up plan to go back to the US and do AMCAS all over again and I honestly don't think I'll need it. That doesn't mean I am going to say everything is ok. And that doesn't mean that I am going to sit here and recruit more students. People ARE transferring/have done so already... but many are now changing their minds (those who were on the fence before)... And a little optimism has gotten me this far... it wouldn't kill for you all to drop the skepticism for a little bit too... although, what is it to YOU? You don't go here... Seriously, crack a book and go study for a change. I'm just saying, good things come to those who wait. Oh, and btw, I'm surprised to hear YOU of all people, telling me that I am giving false hope, whuds...

Oh and one more thing.. the students at this school have been called many things.. but one thing we're not is pushovers. I've seen a lot of coming together and fighting in the past couple of months.. fighting so as not to become obsolete. We're not gonna jump ship that easily, not when there is still more than a hint of chance that there is something to salvage.

Surprized? I'm surprized. I really do not think posting It's going to be okay is the right thing to do, it is false hope. I posted positve before this happened and then wanted to believe what the Admin had told us when I was still in Luton , then nothing told to us was true. Why would anyone believe now that it is all going to be OKAY? That is false hope. Being silent about events before they are implemented is the best move. Too many times before there have been postings of approvals in the states by students of this school and now a major approval has been lost, the Admin is in question, An approval in the states is suspended and the charter is a big question. How can we read that it's okay? Most of this was not out there when I was posting positive back last summer and I was asking/ debating people to give the school a chance to prove that there were not all these problems. It seems we need to move to the school could not prove per the GMC. Now we wait for the US what will happen? The Charter, is the school really chartered? The GMC has said no.

I was fooled before into thinking it's okay, there comes a time to face the facts. Now is the time.

On the otherhand if Senegal does come forth and is able to take over that would be good, not great since much damage has been done.

Mods do not defend anything but Terms of Service.

pruritis_ani
03-25-2006, 09:08 PM
duplicate post

pruritis_ani
03-25-2006, 09:11 PM
You misunderstand... I am not giving false hope, I am speaking purely for myself. And you guys are not HERE... the GMC ruling is not final. It's far from over. This is why I don't post on here any more!! Cuz of all the haters :P Please don't pretend to show concern by offering cute advice to transfer, you know you are all on here hovering for the WORST news possible. I had a back-up plan to go back to the US and do AMCAS all over again and I honestly don't think I'll need it. That doesn't mean I am going to say everything is ok. And that doesn't mean that I am going to sit here and recruit more students. People ARE transferring/have done so already... but many are now changing their minds (those who were on the fence before)... And a little optimism has gotten me this far... it wouldn't kill for you all to drop the skepticism for a little bit too... although, what is it to YOU? You don't go here... Seriously, crack a book and go study for a change. I'm just saying, good things come to those who wait. Oh, and btw, I'm surprised to hear YOU of all people, telling me that I am giving false hope, whuds...

Oh and one more thing.. the students at this school have been called many things.. but one thing we're not is pushovers. I've seen a lot of coming together and fighting in the past couple of months.. fighting so as not to become obsolete. We're not gonna jump ship that easily, not when there is still more than a hint of chance that there is something to salvage.

I think you misunderstand...what people are saying is that no matter WHAT is in process, staying is a bad idea. There is absolutely no scenario that I could imagine where staying would be a good idea...lets think of them.

1) Everything miraculously returns to where it was pre-GMC and ECFMG suspension...well, then we are still facing significant questions come licenure time.
2) Some St Elsewhere offers to accept all St Chris students as is, directly into the program and recognize all credits...well, then the students would be faced with having credits from a non-existent school come licensure time
3) Follow the admin to wherever they buy the next charter....I think it is pretty clear where that will lead. As soon as the cash supply is threatened, students will be hung to dry again
4) Follow the Senegalese as they open up a new school with the same charter...well, again, you are going with a group that clearly has little regard for anything other than the cash, as they recently appeared to be using the students as pawns.

Perhaps there is some other scenario that I have left out...if so, I would love to see it.

Saying things like the "GMC ruling is not final" seriously undermines any credibility, and makes me question whether you are able to critically think this through. While it may not be final, over the past 6 months or so there has yet to be one iota of any indication that this will turn out well for SC. In fact, it just keeps getting worse! It reminds me of Kevin Bacon at the end of "Animal House" screaming "All is well, don't panic!" as there is a riot in the streets...

It appears that you want to go to this school bad enough that you are willing to delude yourself, and not partake of the many better opportunities. Well, good luck to you with that. But, when you get screwed in the end it will be tough to find any sympathy. These are the exact sentiments that find me merely shaking my head at this situation, instead of feeling sorry for the "poor students".

smoohead
03-25-2006, 09:24 PM
Who said anything about wanting sympathy? ... and yes, EVERYONE is in it for cash... even US med schools. I have said this time and time again. You can shake your head at us until you're dizzy and disoriented, pruritas, it doesn't much matter.

The GMC ruling on the website is NOT definitive according to my conversation with the International Liaison's Officer at the GMC as per March 24th, 2006. AFTER the website was changed. How is that for critical thinking? Talking to an actual PERSON rather than relying on abstract words on an abstract website that is known to have put information up PREMATURELY BEFORE ALSO?!

Furthermore, I said I DID have a backup plan (still do, my AMCAS is filled out and ready to go for June). I know it is more prudent to start over in the US than to get sucked into some mess in the Caribbean. So please don't assume that my willingness to stick around is because I LOVE LUTON AND LOOOOVE MY SHADY SCHOOL! That is pure **.

Well, whatever, all I can really say to any of you is to just get over it already... and move on with your lives :p This doesn't concern any of you. And yet you all continue to stick around here (despite any brand new OBVIOUS GLARING revelations that are satisfactory to YOU) and make us look worse and worse. OMG!! WHY DID I COME BACK ON HERE?? It's sooo pointless.. *beats head against wall*

smoohead
03-25-2006, 09:25 PM
And yes I will take your advice, whuds, and just keep quiet from now on until I have definitive proof and can put it up here... however, I DO have proof about my statement about the GMC like I just said. An issue like GMC and ECFMG is not BLACK AND WHITE! As proven by the inconsistancies between the website and the administrators we're in touch with at these places.

That is all I can say for now.

pruritis_ani
03-25-2006, 09:33 PM
So, the GMC decision is not final. Most decisions are in fact reversible. How, pray tell, does this translate into good news for SC? Answer: it does not. As of now, the school is fried. Assuming it will not be in the future is pure optimism, that flies in the face of the current reality.

It isn't to hard to believe it, but you are missing the point....whatever, whoever you talked to and whenever it was doesn't matter at all. Has SC been cleared by anyone yet? No. Have they passed a single investigation? Nope. Are the current students able to sit for exams and/or get ECFMG certificates? No way. That is the point. I don't care if you talked to Tony Blair, and he said "well, guvnor, the investigation isn't final"...that means squat. As of now, you are in a school that qualifies you for NOTHING. Will that change? Maybe. But maybe pigs wil fly out of my butt too.

I sure hope you use better evidence based skills when treating patients. But, I am pretty sure that the path you are on will keep patients safe from you in the future.

Why am I here? Simple..I went through the process already. I am an MD, and it was a huge PITA to get here. I have seen coutless suckers get fooled into thinking many crappy schools will get them where they want to be. I would like to minimize the numbers of these poor bastards.

smoohead
03-25-2006, 09:48 PM
Well good for you. I am sure your narrow, biased and judgemental point of view will manage to drive patients to you in hoards. Considering all these lovely scenarios you are throwing out, I should just move back to the states tomorrow. I'm done here, I have cranial nerves to memorize. But please don't think I am in hook, line, and sinker... I repeat, my AMCAS is done and I am sticking around until June. If I have to transfer, fine, if not, even better....

pruritis_ani
03-25-2006, 09:55 PM
Well good for you. I am sure your narrow, biased and judgemental point of view will manage to drive patients to you in hoards. Considering all these lovely scenarios you are throwing out, I should just move back to the states tomorrow. I'm done here, I have cranial nerves to memorize. But please don't think I am in hook, line, and sinker... I repeat, my AMCAS is done and I am sticking around until June. If I have to transfer, fine, if not, even better....

I fail to see what is narrow, biased and judgemental about reality.

If you can give me a single positive scenario that places SC in the company of schools like SGU, Ross, AUC, SABA and even SMU I would be all ears. Let's see it...

But, the fact is, that is not possible. Before all of the controversy, SC was a poor choice, and had no real benefits over the other schools. Now, the school is worse off than ever. That, my fine feathered freind is reality. If you think that the staying with a currently worthless school who's best option is to get back up to merely second rate is a good choice, then I am at a loss.

It is not a matter of what we WANT to be the case, it is a matter of what IS the case. That is what I hope you learn to deal in, and what I hope you bring to your patients.

Good luck with the AMCAS.

ValuelessMD
03-25-2006, 09:58 PM
..........

amyames
03-25-2006, 10:19 PM
wow, I can't believe AMCAS is already open before the April MCAT's....I really then shot myself in the foot when I applied many moons back in Aug! or is it that you can complete the application but can't send it in till May? oh well, I guess I remember AMCAS being open in May.

when using AMCAS, do you have to state that you previously attended a medical school, or does AMCAS not care? will medical schools care, or do you even have to mention that? just wondering.


anyhoo, good luck with your app smoo. I know how exhausting that darn AMCAS app is!

gazpacho
03-25-2006, 10:55 PM
wow, I can't believe AMCAS is already open before the April MCAT's....I really then shot myself in the foot when I applied many moons back in Aug! or is it that you can complete the application but can't send it in till May? oh well, I guess I remember AMCAS being open in May.

when using AMCAS, do you have to state that you previously attended a medical school, or does AMCAS not care? will medical schools care, or do you even have to mention that? just wondering.


anyhoo, good luck with your app smoo. I know how exhausting that darn AMCAS app is!
You remember correctly. AMCAS is not yet open for this year. 5300 character PS and activities list, it's not too difficult. Entering grades was just the most tedious part. 9 "typos" are corrected gratis, but anything beyond that will stall an application. Anyway!

I'm really curious to see what's going to happen with SCCM. A bunch of people I know were looking into the school last year. Why the allure of this school, which "doesn't have the reputation of SGU (etc.)"? It's in a first world country, and students can still save face with most people by saying they're attending med school in England. This is probably most important to the Indians :) "Medical school in Britain" has so much more cred than "medical school in Dominica".

I'm fortunate enough that I'll be a USMD, but hypothetically if my app weren't strong enough, I would most likely have chosen SCCM over the Caribbean, simply to avoid stigma. Hell, it took a TON of digging to find that the school was Senegalese and not just some small private school in Britain. How many of us know anything about the UK medical system anyway?

I hope the school doesn't shut down. Enrollment will probably be down this year, especially since our google-savvy generation is probably going to read about this bubbling turmoil. However, human nature says that we believe what we want to believe-- applicants will probably convince themselves that "everything will be all right". It's a whole lot of money for a prospective med student to throw at this tenuous situation (in my opinion). I hope the faculty and administrative staff can take an open, proactive stance on this issue and keep everyone in the loop. How hard can it be to get a charter from Senegal, anyway? Corrupt African nation where money talks... it would just be a matter of a few bribes and selective pressure.

pruritis_ani
03-25-2006, 11:01 PM
Well, avoiding the "stigma" of the carib is going to cost some students a lot of years and wasted money. I have heard this argument time and time again as well, and I find it hilarious. Sure, you may not have to admit you studied in the carib, and trying to pull off the English school bit may make you feel better about whatever you need to feel better about. But, the fact is that the schools with the stigma have the results. These schools can and will get you where you need to be. I would take a carib degree and a job as an MD over working at McDonalds with a "medical degree" from some fake UK school any day.

But, you hit the nail on the head. People will believe what they want to believe and we can convince ourselves of anything. There are still students out there avoiding the reality and telling themselves every day that all is well. How sad.

pruritis_ani
03-25-2006, 11:03 PM
How hard can it be to get a charter from Senegal, anyway? Corrupt African nation where money talks... it would just be a matter of a few bribes and selective pressure.

Getting the charter was the easy part! The hard part was keeping it...makes you wonder who deserves the corrupt label, admin or Senegal? Or perhaps both....

CorporateRaider
03-26-2006, 08:54 AM
Smoohead,

Pray tell, does the student body of St. Christopher's support the administration of mister "L"?

Pray tell, does the student body of St. Christopher's support the way mister "L" has handled the situation?

Pray tell, what developments have you been privy to that leads you to maintain hope of a better tomorrow?


As for your clever Titanic comment, AZ... you either still are or were VERY recently in the London area. Besides this, you have TONS of leaks into what has been going on. Please don't pretend to still be thaaat clueless....

azskeptic
03-26-2006, 09:00 AM
My guess is he thinks the men in the robes are going to rescue SC for themselves i.e. the Senegal folks see the profit motive and will 'charter' the school for their own profit but they don't get it----it is too late. One of the profs is trying to take the students to St. Eustatius. Profit motives will cause all kinds of 'attempts' This sort of thing happened at Grace and Kigezi also; it didn't happen at St Luke because there were few students. You need a score card to keep up with the attempts.


Smoohead,

Pray tell, does the student body of St. Christopher's support the administration of mister "L"?

Pray tell, does the student body of St. Christopher's support the way mister "L" has handled the situation?

Pray tell, what developments have you been privy to that leads you to maintain hope of a better tomorrow?

OLDPRO
03-26-2006, 09:02 AM
Anyone who knows me, knew I was always critical of any extreme point of view in whatever camp it came from. Infact, more so in person than on the forums to both the cheer leaders and administration of SC. I never changed my mind about the place, at best I was making the best of a questionable situation. And of course always making alternative plan to be acted on as soon as I could. But this is really all very moot now.

Only, now, I just wanted to add. None of "us" can play the victim card here. Yes, we all make mistakes, and yes some are harder than others, but pleaseeeeeeeeeee, I don't buy the argument that "we" were mislead, unless you wanted to be. Come on ppl, BTS and company became very transparent after a short while. So, stupid is as stupid does. And, unless your name is Patrick and you live on Bikini Bottom, everyone who was there had amble opportunity to leave before the poop hit the fan.

This of course does not excuse the administration, or the cheer leaders of SC. But, come on people. Who's kidding who. No one was forced into this situation.
No one is playing the victim card, I'm not, I was lied to before all this happened and I stood up to it and left. You stayed at the school during a time as you admit you "knew this" why? You should have left earlier, I really did not believe it was this bad before. And we were not forced into the school but one does expect a Medical school to at least least mostly tell the truth and they didn't, we want to be Doctors. Do you think the shareholders of ENRON should have known? Sometimes you have faith in the wrong people. I really do not think the 800 or so students spend all thier spare time on VMD and believe a handful of posters that argue back and forth. WOW I do not think this is that powerful, but for Me and any other current or former student to come on here and post that we were misled and that this school now has established a problem history has value.

It has value in the sense that others that do read it may avoid these problems. So as a former student who has no AXE to grind I feel I should post.

For me that part of my life is over.

CorporateRaider
03-26-2006, 09:11 AM
Students should but they don't ask themselves:

Why would any serious academic choose an African nation to charter his/her school, only to operate in a First World Country?

I can envisage the "MEN IN ROBES" you speak of AZ, but I can't envisage a person with connections at YALE and Haavad' (Harvard) doing this.

To date in the history of Offshore Medical Education we have seen vain attempts at using the African Continent as a fast track into "making a quick buck" , but these attempts have crashed like the HINDENBURG (i.e. St Luke, Kigezi and now SCSOM).

The "Men in Robes" might be able to rescue the school, they seem to have learned their lesson that trading their gold for mirrors is bad business.




My guess is he thinks the men in the robes are going to rescue SC for themselves i.e. the Senegal folks see the profit motive and will 'charter' the school for their own profit but they don't get it----it is too late. One of the profs is trying to take the students to St. Eustatius. Profit motives will cause all kinds of 'attempts' This sort of thing happened at Grace and Kigezi also; it didn't happen at St Luke because there were few students. You need a score card to keep up with the attempts.

###
03-26-2006, 09:12 AM
.............

ValuelessMD
03-26-2006, 09:43 AM
..........

smoohead
03-26-2006, 11:41 AM
How about a big NO to the first 2... and, like I said... I'm gonna shut up about the 3rd one until I do have something concrete to put up, as per whuds's advice.


Smoohead,

Pray tell, does the student body of St. Christopher's support the administration of mister "L"?

Pray tell, does the student body of St. Christopher's support the way mister "L" has handled the situation?

Pray tell, what developments have you been privy to that leads you to maintain hope of a better tomorrow?

smoohead
03-26-2006, 11:42 AM
wow, I can't believe AMCAS is already open before the April MCAT's....I really then shot myself in the foot when I applied many moons back in Aug! or is it that you can complete the application but can't send it in till May? oh well, I guess I remember AMCAS being open in May.

when using AMCAS, do you have to state that you previously attended a medical school, or does AMCAS not care? will medical schools care, or do you even have to mention that? just wondering.


anyhoo, good luck with your app smoo. I know how exhausting that darn AMCAS app is!

I have this year's (2006) filled out. I was told there was a way to transfer it to the 2007 one when it gets put up on the AMCAS website. I don't have details yet, but since I can't send it in until June anyway (August is the deadline for early decision), I'm waiting on getting details until I go home for break at least.

Miklos
03-26-2006, 01:45 PM
There should be a mass hemmorage of students transferring to varoius places. Even those who remain at SC for now will leave if the ECFMG suspension drags on much longer. Further, I suspect admissions will dry up entirely. I can't imagine that there will be enough students left for the school to be sustainable. All of this will make it very hard for SC to continue. In particular, I suspect the SGU offer will be the death knell of SC.

Agreed. Once a crisis of confidence starts, it is very hard to stop.

sheikh1
03-26-2006, 01:51 PM
Africaaaee Africaaaaaaaaaaa **** yangu eeee, nakupenda sana eee!!!!!

bts4202
03-26-2006, 02:28 PM
Hey all,

2 things to say:

1. For those of you acutely aware of my absence, I am sorry. I have stayed away, and will continue to do so for a little while longer, because there was nothing for me to say. One of two things will happen now, either our school will be fixed by a multitude of things happening or everything will collapse and you will likely never hear from me again. Please do not ask what things are happening, as I will not say until there is some solid resolution. But be comforted in the fact that all things being done are above board with full knowledge of the ecfmg, GMC, senegal govt, and other US bodies unmentioned. Many of you have been right about many of the rumours surrounding st chris and our infamous leader, but more on that when the time is right.

2. Those of you still at st chris, active on our forums, and aware of what is happening... there is no need to fight with people on this forum. They do not know any of the current situation, nor do they need to know until we have answered many of the important questions we have OURSELVES. It is a fruitless effort. Our school could not possibly have a worse name nor any future seem any more bleak to an outsider. It is understandable and, in fact, I agree with most of what is being said. I have told anyone who is in the early semesters of st chris who ask me that is is smartest to take the SGU offer and start over. For those of us who are staying, we know what is at stake and what dynamics are changing. Lets just wait till there is solid, significant news to report, then do so.

DrShikima
03-26-2006, 03:08 PM
Hey all,

2 things to say:

1. For those of you acutely aware of my absence, I am sorry. I have stayed away, and will continue to do so for a little while longer, because there was nothing for me to say. One of two things will happen now, either our school will be fixed by a multitude of things happening or everything will collapse and you will likely never hear from me again. Please do not ask what things are happening, as I will not say until there is some solid resolution. But be comforted in the fact that all things being done are above board with full knowledge of the ecfmg, GMC, senegal govt, and other US bodies unmentioned. Many of you have been right about many of the rumours surrounding st chris and our infamous leader, but more on that when the time is right.

2. Those of you still at st chris, active on our forums, and aware of what is happening... there is no need to fight with people on this forum. They do not know any of the current situation, nor do they need to know until we have answered many of the important questions we have OURSELVES. It is a fruitless effort. Our school could not possibly have a worse name nor any future seem any more bleak to an outsider. It is understandable and, in fact, I agree with most of what is being said. I have told anyone who is in the early semesters of st chris who ask me that is is smartest to take the SGU offer and start over. For those of us who are staying, we know what is at stake and what dynamics are changing. Lets just wait till there is solid, significant news to report, then do so.


Best advice I've heard all day.... if you can, take the generosity of SGU and start over. The money lost is not a big deal plus it'll give you a chance to boost your grades and ultimately your board scores!

.... always look on the bright side of life.... o/~ o/~

angel_fyre
03-26-2006, 03:48 PM
i am a current St. chris student, and i am getting the helll outta this place i am like the other 300 students that were lied too and now have no value left from my education. it really seems to boggle my mind that people think that the GMC ruling is not final?? and that they spoke to whoever and are under the impression that this will all be o.k. WAKE UP!! its over St. Chris is burning in flames, you optomistic people got something wrong with you. shows the decsion making skills you have and your going to be doctors???shame. I met Dr. L in person hes a liar and a cheat i have family friends that are apart of the St.Chris admin and i feel embarressed for them..i feel stupid that i even know these people..they told me personally that they have way to many internal problems going on in the admin that the GMC, ECFMG problems are not first on thier list of things to do. everyone on the admin is sueing each other, thier not even together. Why students would still want to stay at a school that lied to them beats me..i asked DR. Liar..i mean L...to show me the Senegal charter and he relpied in his stupid accent that he cant release that info??? whats that **...anways to let the cheerleaders know hes looking for a new charter..which leads me to believe they didnt even have one to start with...so for those supporters and optimistic people who seem to be sharing the same bed as Dr.L, you guys need to get the little thing inside your head checked..... if you even know what that is called?

for students like me who feel lost and dont know what to do and were looking for a way out, the SGU offer is gold..i think everyone should look into it.

smoohead
03-26-2006, 06:35 PM
Who else wants to tell me I'm messed up in the head? Let's make a line! :D I'll give out autographs. I agree about 'Dr.' L... but yeah I'm really gonna shut up this time! *crawls back into hole*

CorporateRaider
03-26-2006, 07:01 PM
Mister "L" is a liar?

That seems to be "breaking news" to those that know him (I said that with a high dose of irony).


From what I hear the students that decide to stay should go over to the Senegalese side of the fence, that is where the true power is (they hold the charter).

No charter = NO NOTHIN'.

CorporateRaider
03-26-2006, 07:03 PM
BTS4202:

Great Post !

May I ask "why" you cannot share the next moves? Is it for legal reasons to cover the Senegalese? Is it so mister "L" won't know what's coming? There has to be a reason why, share that.




2 things to say:

1. For those of you acutely aware of my absence, I am sorry. I have stayed away, and will continue to do so for a little while longer, because there was nothing for me to say. One of two things will happen now, either our school will be fixed by a multitude of things happening or everything will collapse and you will likely never hear from me again. Please do not ask what things are happening, as I will not say until there is some solid resolution. But be comforted in the fact that all things being done are above board with full knowledge of the ecfmg, GMC, senegal govt, and other US bodies unmentioned. Many of you have been right about many of the rumours surrounding st chris and our infamous leader, but more on that when the time is right.

2. Those of you still at st chris, active on our forums, and aware of what is happening... there is no need to fight with people on this forum. They do not know any of the current situation, nor do they need to know until we have answered many of the important questions we have OURSELVES. It is a fruitless effort. Our school could not possibly have a worse name nor any future seem any more bleak to an outsider. It is understandable and, in fact, I agree with most of what is being said. I have told anyone who is in the early semesters of st chris who ask me that is is smartest to take the SGU offer and start over. For those of us who are staying, we know what is at stake and what dynamics are changing. Lets just wait till there is solid, significant news to report, then do so.

sheikh1
03-26-2006, 07:44 PM
Hey all,

2 things to say:

1. For those of you acutely aware of my absence, I am sorry. I have stayed away, and will continue to do so for a little while longer, because there was nothing for me to say. One of two things will happen now, either our school will be fixed by a multitude of things happening or everything will collapse and you will likely never hear from me again. Please do not ask what things are happening, as I will not say until there is some solid resolution. But be comforted in the fact that all things being done are above board with full knowledge of the ecfmg, GMC, senegal govt, and other US bodies unmentioned. Many of you have been right about many of the rumours surrounding st chris and our infamous leader, but more on that when the time is right.

2. Those of you still at st chris, active on our forums, and aware of what is happening... there is no need to fight with people on this forum. They do not know any of the current situation, nor do they need to know until we have answered many of the important questions we have OURSELVES. It is a fruitless effort. Our school could not possibly have a worse name nor any future seem any more bleak to an outsider. It is understandable and, in fact, I agree with most of what is being said. I have told anyone who is in the early semesters of st chris who ask me that is is smartest to take the SGU offer and start over. For those of us who are staying, we know what is at stake and what dynamics are changing. Lets just wait till there is solid, significant news to report, then do so.
It sad to say the least, but you have to fight like a lion, I know you have been fighting hard. Some people have no life but destroying others. Because the school is Senegal people make it a big deal, simply because they can't stand Africa. Good luck!!!!!!!

gazpacho
03-26-2006, 07:45 PM
I have this year's (2006) filled out. I was told there was a way to transfer it to the 2007 one when it gets put up on the AMCAS website. I don't have details yet, but since I can't send it in until June anyway (August is the deadline for early decision), I'm waiting on getting details until I go home for break at least.



Make sure to export your AMCAS 2006 as a PDF just in case. I don't think you can transfer the info. (just trying to be helpful).

Also, what are the "alleged" reports on Dr/Mr L?

sheikh1
03-26-2006, 07:46 PM
Hey all,

2 things to say:

1. For those of you acutely aware of my absence, I am sorry. I have stayed away, and will continue to do so for a little while longer, because there was nothing for me to say. One of two things will happen now, either our school will be fixed by a multitude of things happening or everything will collapse and you will likely never hear from me again. Please do not ask what things are happening, as I will not say until there is some solid resolution. But be comforted in the fact that all things being done are above board with full knowledge of the ecfmg, GMC, senegal govt, and other US bodies unmentioned. Many of you have been right about many of the rumours surrounding st chris and our infamous leader, but more on that when the time is right.

2. Those of you still at st chris, active on our forums, and aware of what is happening... there is no need to fight with people on this forum. They do not know any of the current situation, nor do they need to know until we have answered many of the important questions we have OURSELVES. It is a fruitless effort. Our school could not possibly have a worse name nor any future seem any more bleak to an outsider. It is understandable and, in fact, I agree with most of what is being said. I have told anyone who is in the early semesters of st chris who ask me that is is smartest to take the SGU offer and start over. For those of us who are staying, we know what is at stake and what dynamics are changing. Lets just wait till there is solid, significant news to report, then do so.
It sad to say the least, but you have to fight like a lion, I know you have been fighting hard. Some people have no life but destroying others. Because the school is Senegal people make it a big deal, simply because they can't stand Africa. Good luck!!!!!!!

pruritis_ani
03-26-2006, 09:02 PM
Heard a rumor on SDN that UK schools are offering St Chris students international spots...wonder if this is true, anybody else hear this, or can confirm?

It is sounding like the students may have to redo some work, but could come out smelling like roses. SGU and legit UK degrees are about as good as you can do, and would be well worth the extra time.

TAFKA
03-26-2006, 09:28 PM
edited to remove text

pruritis_ani
03-26-2006, 09:42 PM
Although I can't confirm anything that I'm reading here regarding transfers to other schools, I think it bears mentioning that the graduates of the basic science program at St. Christopher's are exceptionally well trained and some of these offers are likely reflections of that fact.
Tafka, while you may well be right on about the quality of training for the St. Chris students, what do you think about the risk of those credits being recognized as far as licensure in the states later?

I don't think quality is the issue, as much as the ability to have these credits recognized. In fact, that kind of sums up the entire issue with St. Chris. It seems that a lot of you focused on the quality of the education, as you saw it, and chose to ignore the more pressing issues. Personally, I think it is a bad mistake to make twice. Your thoughts?

IndianSClink
03-26-2006, 11:22 PM
///////////////////////

pruritis_ani
03-26-2006, 11:26 PM
It's easier said than done. I'm sure you had gone through the first two years of medical school. It was a pure torture, reading days and nights, with those thousand and thousand of pages. Some students do not want to go through that stage again and are willing to take risks on the unknown when it comes to licensure. It's a pain just to think about repeating from day 1 again. OMG, 4 years of basic sciences. How can one take such torture? Of course, people do not want problems with getting their licenses at the end.

I did do basic science, and it was tough. But, if I was in the St. Chris situation, I would repeat it again in a heartbeat. Why? Because it would be even worse to be refused a license when you finish residency. At least now you just stay a student a bit longer. The material is relatively fresh. You could cruise through half speed, get great grades and enjoy an 18 month carib vacation.

Looking back on it, I had a lot of fun. There was a lot of studying, and more than anything it was boring classwork. But, I had a lot of free time, partied it up on the weekends, had some great friends to hang out with. The more I think about it, the more I want to go back!

If you wait, not only will you go from resident to student again, a lot of basic science info will be forgotten. It would suck to be even older, to uproot after returning home, and try it all again. Not to mention how much more humiliating it would be to go back.

I would strongly advise all of you to NOT think in terms of the short term. However much you have to repeat, just freaking repeat it. You got burned once by not thinking things through, and by taking a needless risk. Don't make a stupid mistake twice.

CorporateRaider
03-27-2006, 08:12 AM
Sheikh1:

Nothing against Africa, everything against those that exploit it for personal gain.


Because the school is Senegal people make it a big deal, simply because they can't stand Africa. Good luck!!!!!!!

jrosenberg
03-27-2006, 11:24 AM
Hey-I am at SGU and was just wondering how many people are at SC? Jjust curious if students transfer to SGu how many people we are talking about-thanks and good luck to all of you. I wish you the best.

john2006
04-08-2006, 06:15 PM
..............

desai29
04-08-2006, 06:33 PM
D. confuse. what you doing.

Skipper
04-09-2006, 09:14 AM
best answer is go somewhere else and start over and avoid the licensing problem at the end

skipper

desai29
04-09-2006, 12:36 PM
do not depend on SCIMD

MDPharmDboy
04-09-2006, 03:19 PM
I am not a student of this school, but read this forum for entertainment. What saddness is it that the students have become caught in the middle of adminitrators disputes and most likely financial disagreements. Why is no one offering a word of support to the students? Well, in any event, the purchase of the current school by another school may or may not be a good thing, that again is up to those who hold the power. It is the student who deserves respect, as they trusted and continue to want to trust people who hold their future in their respective hands. All we can do is hope that the US powers realize that their are human beings caught in the middle, lets just hope they step forward with a viable solution for them and act humanely rather than like a cold corporate dictators. The students are the people who make or break a school, NOT the admin, faculty or whatever.....Again, just my thoughts. HANG IN THEIR SCCM STUDENTS.......be honest with yourself and everyone involved and all will be well.







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