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orangecrush
03-30-2006, 04:26 PM
Is the St. Chris which is part of Dr. L and company merging with MUA-Belize, and the other St. Chris with the student body going with Senegal?

I am confused....I believe there are two schools now with essentially the same name. Dr L seems to be forging a new relationship with MUA-belize with his buildings in Luton.

While the new St. Chris with the country of Senegal and all the students will retain the original charter with Senegal. Looks like they will find a new location in the UK and new buildings.

I am getting this?

Do not confuse the MUA-Nevis campus with MUA-Belize. They are not the same school and are under different ownership. The MUA-Nevis is the better school with recent NY approval.

studentMD
03-30-2006, 06:19 PM
oh what a tangled web we weave

scoobz1981
03-30-2006, 06:55 PM
This sounds like a mess!

Val

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 07:11 PM
Ohh man, this is some interesting stuff? i have heard from some reliable sources..that Dr.Liar has been fired and that he no longer has authority over anything although it was his company i dont think he was the soul owner of it..there were many partners... so i duuno how he would be trying to merge with MUA-belize as i have heard he no longer has authority over St.Chris luton

hydatiform
03-30-2006, 07:15 PM
He doesn't. And I hear that the deal is a moot point. The ECFMG has been made aware of his plans and are on the lookout. Even if he goes through with the deal, MUA-Belize is basically being offered nothing but empty buildings since the current students are going with Senegal. Nobody trusts L at this point after having been lied to for years. He really has little to no authority any more and is basically just trying to save his own butt.

bts4202
03-30-2006, 07:21 PM
I have, personally, only heard of one student who wishes to stay with dr. L. That venture will fail very quickly.

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 07:34 PM
hahahahahh whats DR. Liar done to this student?

hydatiform
03-30-2006, 08:13 PM
I'm sure nobody wants to know.


hahahahahh whats DR. Liar done to this student?

Straight Shooter
03-30-2006, 09:38 PM
%^&^%$&#$%#$%

Blocks81
03-30-2006, 10:52 PM
So SC has officially merged with MUA-Belize....
What does this mean for students?
Is ECFMG going to buy this?
AND is Phony L still involved :shock:

IndianSClink
03-30-2006, 11:01 PM
....................................

MUA-STCHRIS
03-30-2006, 11:03 PM
OFFICIAL NOTICE TO STUDENTS OF ST. CHRISTOPHER'S COLLEGE OF MEDICINE:

http://www.stchris.edu/media/downloads/press/press-release-03-30.pdf

pruritis_ani
03-30-2006, 11:10 PM
Well, MUA just became a very bad school by association. Good work, MUA.

Students, get out while you can! You saw what happened to the last school that was affiliated with Mr. L.....

PathOne
03-30-2006, 11:25 PM
Gee whiz.... Is THIS the long-awaited solution to all the problems at St. Chris?
Good going. Two fine institutions with solid track records and close proximity to each other join forces to advance global medical training... (add sarcasm).

So whatever happened to the Senegal solution? And how does this affect the question of which charter St. Chris has actually worked under since it was established? Smells of rank desperation to me. But I'm sure the saga will continue.

Blocks81
03-30-2006, 11:35 PM
pick ure poison, MUA or st chris? this merger is a bunch of **, looks like PL might still be around after all. hey you guys remember that wonderful merger that st chris had with that college in NJ and then it fell through, looks like it may be deja vu again, its only a matter of time

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 11:42 PM
pick ure poison, MUA or st chris? this merger is a bunch of **, looks like PL might still be around after all. hey you guys remember that wonderful merger that st chris had with that college in NJ and then it fell through, looks like it may be deja vu again, its only a matter of time

LOL OMG you have it wrong, the NJ school was not a merger, it was like an alliance, this is different than that mess, this is a new mess? MUA and St. Chris is now one and the same school, or so it seems. AZ were are you?!

I really do not know what else to say? So whos coming to the Islands?

###
03-31-2006, 12:01 AM
..............

PathOne
03-31-2006, 12:02 AM
So it would seem that Senegal now has very little incentive, financial or otherwise, to confirm that St. Chris has indeed been working under a charter since 2000. Which again means that students and grads between 2000 and 2006 basically has no way of proving that they attended a chartered school. In fact, this "merger" makes it fairly obvious, that no real link ever existed between Dakar and Luton, since Senegal isn't even mentioned in the press release. Talk about being irresponsible!

This "solution" MIGHT work as far as the immediate problems with GMC and ECFMG are concerned, but it's also a virtual guarantee that no current or past St. Chris students will be able to get permanent licensure in the US. Also, it might be just a tad too creative, even for GMC and ECFMG. We'll have to see what happens.

But at least St. Chris succeeded in finding a charter country which is even further away than Senegal. Impressive!

MDXRS22
03-31-2006, 12:08 AM
OFFICIAL NOTICE TO STUDENTS OF ST. CHRISTOPHER'S COLLEGE OF MEDICINE:

http://www.stchris.edu/media/downloads/press/press-release-03-30.pdf

Are you serious????????????????????????????

bts4202
03-31-2006, 12:10 AM
This "solution" is Dr. L's plan. It is the only way he can continue to operate the physical facilites he has in Luton. it will not do him, nor MUA, any good without any students. This new merger now represents a completely new school. The old st christophers will remain with Senegal as they always have.

PathOne
03-31-2006, 12:10 AM
I think this might be a smart play --- for BOTH schools.

Obviously, SC has to merge with someone with a valid charter. GMC has no issues with MUA and MUA can operate a business in the UK. The school will cater to US students so it doesn't really matter whether the GMC lets students sit for PLAB. MUA grads are OK with the ECFMG so all is well.

So what does MUA get? I think MUA gets a chance to try to implement the squatter strategy competently. I suspect they have a shot.

This deal would NOT be attractive to one of the established schools (SGU or Ross) because the squatter schools pose a threat to SGU and Ross. At present, it is hard to get a carib school up and running to compete with the Big 4 -- which is probably just fine with them. Thus, it is in their interest to see the squatter threat go away (witness the SGU offer to SC students). Also, it is not in the interest of any of the large schools to merge with SC because, if it were successful it would only open the floodgates of competition and ruin the current cozy oligopoly. Squatter school success is the LAST thing the Big4 need -- even if one of them starts it.

However, it makes sense for a second string player to try the squatter strategy -- which is what has happened. There may be a window of time during which they can operate without a lot of competition. Further, it will provide a window of time during which they have a competitive edge on the established carib schools.

So who gains?
Over the long run, I believe this is very good for consumers. Competition will lower prices and improve quality. I suspect the best single thing we could do to improve medical education is to lower the barriers to free competition. Imagine if SGU and Ross were able to start opening branch campuses in the US. Tuition would drop drastically. I also suspect that the quality of the programs would improve as the schools battled to attract students. I would like to see us focus more on quality assessment rather than silly issues like charters.

In the short run, I think the current SC students may get screwed. Over the long run, this has the potential to work out. Lets see if the leopard can change his spots....

I think this is an extremely dangerous strategy. Several state licensing boards have already clamped down hard on internet medical schools. There's a real risk that they'll add a requirement that training must take place in the country of charter (which probably wouldn't sound unreasonable to most people) and the whole squatter strategy will go down the drain.

Also, GMC not only banned St. Chris due to charter issues, but also due to inadequate quality assurance procedures. MUA Belize isn't exactly a state-of-the-art medical school, so they can get a hard time convincing the GMC that they can handle quality assurance in Luton from Belize.

Personally, I have a hard time seeing this will fly in the long run. And in the short run, it'll most probably leave current students and grads without evidence that they have attended a chartered school.

AUCMD2006
03-31-2006, 12:12 AM
the saga continues. let me catch the newbs up on all the connections:

St Mathews opens circa 1995 is kicked out of Belize and the chairman is ousted.They move to grand cayman and the chairman opens MUA. Somehow MUA associates with Saba as a sister school basically taking all "left over" students.

During all this, the current head of st chris is at saba, grace, in an ER residency? no one knows. SC has problems and now is merged with MUA belize where the saga began....as the world turns

how is this helpful BTW? students attended the school before the merger while apparently there was no charter from senegal, or while it is being witheld? how can a school be taken over and its students be retroactive? this doesn't make sense but who knows it may work. out.

what it sounds like is that they will try and pass current SC students as MUA students for the usmle and ecfmg. question is how will they be viewed? they didn't technically attend MUA until today as of the day of the merger... so will they mention it is MUA SC luton or will the usmle application just say MUA? can anyone see fraud coming?

man you gotta admit, SC is really keeping the GMC busy!

-1998 SC is a med school in cambridge
-no wait that closed because of no charter. 2000 SC opens again
-SC is a med school with a charter from senegal...
-no wait its a satellite campus of a university that doesn't exist in senegal
-no wait it is now a satellite campus of a parent university that was there but the parent university came after. it is named after a Catholic Saint, owned by a Islamic group that is developing programs in farming that wants to run a med school in england for humanitarian aid
-no wait it didn't have a charter
-no wait, they are just holding it ransom

-no wait SC is now really a "sub campus" of a sub-campus of a sub-campus of a sister university in saba not a satellite...

i just read though that MUA-Belize is no longer affiliated with MUA-nevis and hence Saba so maybe it is not as good as it sounds?

somewhere in london right now, someone at the GMC is buying a very big bottle of motrin. i wonder when they's just get so confused by the twists and turns and say the hell with it just approve them...

PathOne
03-31-2006, 12:12 AM
This "solution" is Dr. L's plan. It is the only way he can continue to operate the physical facilites he has in Luton. it will not do him, nor MUA, any good without any students. This new merger now represents a completely new school. The old st christophers will remain with Senegal as they always have.

So why does the press release say that this decision was made with the full backing of the board of directors of St. Chris? Is that an out-and-out lie, or what????

###
03-31-2006, 12:15 AM
..............

bts4202
03-31-2006, 12:19 AM
So why does the press release say that this decision was made with the full backing of the board of directors of St. Chris? Is that an out-and-out lie, or what????

obviously it is a lie. I am sure he has created his own new board of directors for his luton facilities, but it is not the actual SC Senegal board of directors. Did you also notice what he said about recognition being retroactive? Well, to the SC emails, he sent the letter from the belize Ministry of education along with this announcement and that letter said NOTHING about retroactivity.

PathOne
03-31-2006, 12:21 AM
I agree this is very risky. I also agree that the current students are likely to get screwed. Still, L had little choice -- he needed to cut the Senegalese off at the pass. He has little to lose and his needs are met.

MUA can play this hand with very little risk. They have their Belize charter and can wait to see how things develop with the ECFMG. If things fall their way they are off and running. If they don't, they have very little invested.

The key is to find a new group of lab rats on which to experiment......

I can see the logic behind your argument. However, it's highly distasteful that St. Chris (or at least someone associated with St. Chris, or, whatever) would even consider such an option, as it will probably leave those who backed the school with their time, dedication and not least their money high and dry with NOTHING but debt and time wasted.

###
03-31-2006, 12:25 AM
..............

PathOne
03-31-2006, 12:26 AM
obviously it is a lie. I am sure he has created his own new board of directors for his luton facilities, but it is not the actual SC Senegal board of directors. Did you also notice what he said about recognition being retroactive? Well, to the SC emails, he sent the letter from the belize Ministry of education along with this announcement and that letter said NOTHING about retroactivity.

OK. Now I'm totally and utterly confused. You have previously said that the Senegalese booted Mr. cant-say-his-name from St. Chris, and now you're saying that he has created a New board of directors for his Luton facilities, yet that the Senegalese are continuing with whatever strategy they're working on??? So there's now THREE St. Chris'es - one in Dakar, two in Luton?

I hope that I'm not the only one who's now at a total loss as to what's going on...

solideliquid
03-31-2006, 12:26 AM
the saga continues. let me catch the newbs up on all the connections:

St Mathews opens circa 1995 is kicked out of Belize and the chairman is ousted.They move to grand cayman and the chairman opens MUA. Somehow MUA associates with Saba as a sister school basically taking all "left over" students.
...

St. Matthew's was never "kicked" out of Belize. We moved out on our own. The school was planning on building a new campus on the island, but obviously scrapped those plans when the opportunity to move to the cayman islands became a possibility.

pruritis_ani
03-31-2006, 12:27 AM
I think most people seem to be missing something essential...

Basically, at this point there are 2 "St Christopher's"..

SC #1 is still the property of Mr. L, which has now apparently merged with a school that has no brains at all. SC #1 has few, if any of the students from the original SC.

SC #2 is the one that Senegal is "taking over" and trying to run. This plan has the support of the students, but not the facilities of Mr. L.

I think it is pretty essential to understand this. Basically, this agreement has nothing to do with the Senegal deal. The MUA affiliation is Mr. L's way of trying to keep the school open. The Senegal deal is the way that the majority of the SC students wish to go, for several reasons.

So, there are now two SC's to keep straight. But, both of them seem to have many, many problems, and only a fool would enroll in either of them. I can understand the SC folks in years 3-4 sticking it out and hoping for the best from Senegal. At least that has a remote chance of working out, though I think it is just a short term interuption in certain failure. But, they can stay under the original charter, they can likely get this to float at least a few months until they get degrees, and if ECFMG can be convinced to recognize it for a short while, they can get certificates. After that comes licensure, which is an entirely different ball game, and the chances of being successful there would appear to have taken a dramatic downslide...

But, the MUA deal is simply Mr. L's way of trying to stay in the game. He has facilities in Luton that he has been able to fill with warm, paying bodies before. And he will likely find a way to fill it with warm bodies that can pay again...(sure, they will all be idiots, but who cares?).

Anyhow, it should be clear that this MUA scam is entirely different than the Senegal scam. Neither seem like a particularly good idea, nor do they seem particularly likely to succeed, but what the hell.

bts4202
03-31-2006, 12:31 AM
OK. Now I'm totally and utterly confused. You have previously said that the Senegalese booted Mr. cant-say-his-name from St. Chris, and now you're saying that he has created a New board of directors for his Luton facilities, yet that the Senegalese are continuing with whatever strategy they're working on??? So there's now THREE St. Chris'es - one in Dakar, two in Luton?

I hope that I'm not the only one who's now at a total loss as to what's going on...

basically yes. As I said before, Dr. L owns the physical facilities in luton. If he wished to keep operating then he had to find a new charter cause those facilities would loose their accreditation at the end of thsi semester and Senegal would apply that accreditation to a new campus being headed by the senegalese. The purpose was to cut Dr. L out. They originally offered to buy him out and pay him a $400,000/year salary just to resign but he refused. So this was the only way to continue the senegalese school.

Dr. L is just trying to keep his cash cow alive, however, without any students or proffs (almost all are sticking with senegal), he will still be SOL.

###
03-31-2006, 12:33 AM
.............

PathOne
03-31-2006, 12:36 AM
Regardless of the endgame, I'm afraid that there's going to be a lot of busy lawyers and extremely concerned medical boards.

TAFKA
03-31-2006, 12:40 AM
edited to remove text

pruritis_ani
03-31-2006, 12:42 AM
Yep. Each camp has it's own issues, as I see them...

The Mr. L Camp: no current students. Absolutely savaged reputation...(well, this has always been the case, but it was successfully covered up by people such as bts in the past)

The Senegal camp: Current students locked out by ECFMG and GMC, which looks like a fairly firm decision. Absolutely savaged reputation. Have already held the students education hostage, so clearly not benevolent souls (or particularly honorable, as jpryor would say). Have adopted all previous issues of St. Chris (ie operation outside of charter country). State boards have obviously been in the loop, and may well be hesitant to approve grads from such an unstable school. Still not a single outside approval/verification that the school meets any basic standard. Yada, yada, yada, you get the point. Even crappier than it was before, as impossible as that sounds.

Still seems like a good idea to get away, unless you want a degree that may well cripple your future.

pruritis_ani
03-31-2006, 12:45 AM
why would medical boards be concerned with who's making the profit off of the students? as long as the students are competent and either Belize/ECFMG or Senegal/ECFMG backs them, the medical boards should be satisfied.
Do you really think all the med boards care about is a charter? That may be how the WHO list works, or even IMED, but it has been shown time and time again that many state boards require quite a bit more than this.

I am sure the boards won't care too much about who is profiting, but they will care that a standard is being met. And, increasingly, it appears that simply getting an ECFMG cert from a chartered school is often not enough. Look at CA, PA, Tx, Tn, In, Co....I think you get the point. This is why St. Chris is a piss poor choice now, and still a very, very, very risky operation to bank your future on.

So, bragging about your 251 and your shiny ECFMG cert (if you ever do get one) likely will get you a license in a lot less places than many, many other schools.

###
03-31-2006, 12:50 AM
............

pruritis_ani
03-31-2006, 12:53 AM
I think this could work.

MUA has no charter issues and no ECFMG issues. As far as I know, they can operate a business in the UK. The GMC is not an issue because the school can cater solely to US students. So there are no problems with MUA.

The new MUA-London clearly has a charter so it has cleared a hurdle that dogged SC. The question is how the ECFMG and state licensing boards will handle branch campuses. Personally, I see no reason why they should be limited. If anything, I would suspect that the quality of education at a branch campus located in London would be as good or better than that of the home campus (with which nobody takes issue).

As a point of strategy the new MUA-London should do everything it can to distance itself from the old SC. In my view, they would be wise to forget about a "merger" and simply buy the thing outright and establish it as MUA-London. They should work out a deal to keep L way out of view. Current SC students should be evaluated at arm's length as potential transfers. They need a clean slate. To that end, they should issue an edict that anyone who says the word SC or uses a word beginning with L will be shot.

Loans could be a sticky issue. If I were a banker, I would be cautious about loaning money to anyone going to MUA-London.
Hey DrB...I think you are missing something here. MUA + StChris is with Mr L. He is running that deal. Granted, he does not have many (if any) of the old SC students.

The Senegal group is entirely seperate and basically plan to operate the same St. Chris without L, and in different facilities. This seems to be the route that the current students are sticking with.

So, there are 2 St. Chrises...one with MrL and MUA, one with Senegal and the Senegal Charter, both in the UK.

###
03-31-2006, 01:04 AM
............

pruritis_ani
03-31-2006, 01:26 AM
My bad, thought you lumped them together.

Interesting take on it, BTW. I was following along with what the current students appear to be thinking...mainly that anything without L has to be the better choice, with the other side of it being that they are basically getting the same dish, except this time served as a leftover, cold, and slightly rotten.

However, the MUA option does seem to hold at least some of the cards.

Both, however, are so far behind what else is out there as to make this discussion mainly an academic one. Even the crappy carib schools appear to be a far better idea than either of these...what I still can't understand is why anyone other than the 4th years and the odd 3rd year students are sticking with SC at this point. Hell, I could never figure out why anybody went there in the first place, so I guess I shouldn't expect to understand.

pruritis_ani
03-31-2006, 01:26 AM
duplicate post

gazpacho
03-31-2006, 01:52 AM
What scandal!

1) what's happening on the ground in Luton right now? did people go to class today? shut out? what about the profs?
2) what's in it for senegal to SWOOP IN and "save" the excommunicated st chris students? there's no word from them anyway.
3) hasn't the injunction FROZEN mr l's property/land/accounts/etc.?

machine12
03-31-2006, 03:08 AM
Here is what I think.

Where ever Dr. "L" goes which I think the L stands for Liar now any prosporous med students should decline to follow him due to the obvious reasons.

MDPharmDboy
03-31-2006, 04:25 AM
Here is what I think.

Where ever Dr. "L" goes which I think the L stands for Liar now any prosporous med students should decline to follow him due to the obvious reasons.

Now, I am not a student at either MUA nor St.C., but have many friends there. What if MUA is would absorb St.C and close out the UK campus all together.....as it is a requirement of most licensing boards in the USA that the school or college operate within the jurisdiction or the country which grants the license and or charter. That would be a great resolution, and eliminate the L from the picture, not to mention eliminate the B factor......both would do wonders for the students, which should be everyones concerns anyway. IF MUA is keeping L then they have dug their own graves.

azskeptic
03-31-2006, 05:23 AM
LOL OMG you have it wrong, the NJ school was not a merger, it was like an alliance, this is different than that mess, this is a new mess? MUA and St. Chris is now one and the same school, or so it seems. AZ were are you?!

I really do not know what else to say? So whos coming to the Islands? Mua-Belize is a much smaller school. Remains to be seen how GMC and other agencies will see the merger. Interesting.

CorporateRaider
03-31-2006, 07:45 AM
Now is the time to insert some views into this saga.

Note: Always consult with your personal private attorney.

First of all , I am surprised that MUA decided to join the current state of affairs; my opinion is this was done with pure financial reasons involved. As they say on TV , show me the money.
My guess on what I would say if I owned a school called MUA would be:
We have an iron clad agreement with "L"; through which we retain academic control over everything. (this is supposed to make you feel reassured).
On to Luton. I have read different versions, but it appears that mister "L" own's or rents the Luton facilities. It is completely possible to own these facilities independently of the men from Senegal. Allegedly mister "L" created a holding corporation for the assets he owns in Luton.
Summary: Mister "L' owns a paper corporation and facilities. Note: But no Charter.

Senegal: Allegedly, the men from Senegal obtained a charter to operate their own University deemed: Elhadji Ibrahima Niasse.

For the purpose of illustration, boys and girls, let's pretend that along the way the men from Senegal meet with mister "L". After discussions they conclude; Mister "L" has no charter, but he has facilities. The men from Senegal have no facilities in London, but they hold a valid charter. Over tea and cupcakes, the men from Senegal and Mister "L" decide to form a "JV" (Joint Venture); in which each side donates something they have of value to the new operations.

So, let's go back and take a peek:

Into by and between;
We have mister "L" and his facilities, owned by a paper corporation. The paper corporation has a Board of Directors, placed by Mister "L". To make this easy on the neurons, let's call this corporation: Saint Chrisy's College of Health - Luton England LTD., (as you can now clearly see, its a corporation with a nice building and no charter, but worry not kiddies, the men from Senegal are about to fix that.)

The men from Senegal. They hold their own operations (assets) which is a Charter that covers ElHadji Ibrahima Niasse University, with their own Board of Directors.

Each side will now agree that a "new" Board of Directors should be created for the "JV". Each side now picks three members each to sit on this new Board, be this as it may, neither side dissolves their respective Board of Directors for their other operations.......do we remember what those were kiddies? Remember, since each side has now contributed to the "JV", each side will want to have a "say so" in how this "JV" develops.

Sprinkled into this "JV", were mutual convenants , promises, conditions and clauses. For example, maybe they decided to split all profits after EBITA has been calculated (earnings before interest, tax and/or amortization). Possibilities are endless.

From the latest development, one could speculate that along the line, one or more of the partners in the "JV" did not uphold their end of the bargain; thus creating a rift between the parties. Depending on the wording of the "JV" , there must have been an "exit strategy." An exit strategy would be based upon , ok , we have decided to "join" but what happens if we decide to "split" or to "sell'?

More later chappies !






Yep. Each camp has it's own issues, as I see them...

The Mr. L Camp: no current students. Absolutely savaged reputation...(well, this has always been the case, but it was successfully covered up by people such as bts in the past)

The Senegal camp: Current students locked out by ECFMG and GMC, which looks like a fairly firm decision. Absolutely savaged reputation. Have already held the students education hostage, so clearly not benevolent souls (or particularly honorable, as jpryor would say). Have adopted all previous issues of St. Chris (ie operation outside of charter country). State boards have obviously been in the loop, and may well be hesitant to approve grads from such an unstable school. Still not a single outside approval/verification that the school meets any basic standard. Yada, yada, yada, you get the point. Even crappier than it was before, as impossible as that sounds.

Still seems like a good idea to get away, unless you want a degree that may well cripple your future.

AUCMD2006
03-31-2006, 09:05 AM
St. Matthew's was never "kicked" out of Belize. We moved out on our own. The school was planning on building a new campus on the island, but obviously scrapped those plans when the opportunity to move to the cayman islands became a possibility.

no, read the belize sun and the network54 files on exactly what that "oportunity" as you call it, to move was. there were allegations of fraud, money laundering, security thugs thretening students, the dean using school funds to buy a cigarette boat, widespread cheating with security guards selling answers to tests, and a huge fall out with law suits on both sides.

it was "easier" for st mats to move out. were they planning it all along? not likely, read up on the groundbreaking for the new campus on ambergis caye in belize for st mathew's circa 1996...would a school buying land, had all plans, etc seem to you like it was planing all along to move to another island rent some used cable company building in the middle of a semester? doesn't sound like it was well planed then..hehe in the end it worked out great but read up on your own school's troubled youth...each schools has theirs i know mine does....

back to topic

covertopz
03-31-2006, 09:16 AM
this is a merger of corporations not schools .... st. chris LTD. on one hand and MUA on the other.

st. chris iba mar diop was and still will be senegal backed.

L eone can only hope that some students will in effect transfer to this new school with MUA charter. and there will more than likely be some students that do go, but the majority is staying with senegal.

AUCMD2006
03-31-2006, 09:17 AM
what about the statement from the GMC stating they will not accept anyone for registration from a UK based school?

Scott1981
03-31-2006, 09:29 AM
ok, i understand that the school split in two directions with the same name. im confused about a some things. can someone help me out with these questions.

1. the letter announcing the merger with mua belize went out to sc students. the question is, whose students are they at this point?

2. it was said on here that it is safe to stay with senegal because it was them who students were with all along. so my question is, if you do chose this route, will you have to deal with mua-sc to get your records transferred to senegal sc?

3. if you do have to go through mua-sc to transfer your records, what will it say on your transcript when it comes time for licensing? will it state it like your credits came from two schools since your records at one point were the custody of mua-sc?

4. if you chose to stick with mua-sc, will your transcript show credits from two different schools.

5. why is the mua-sc sending out letters to "their" students?

6. i guess a lot boils down to this. which school will list the previous credits before the split as theirs on the final transcripts at graduation.......sort of keeping one school on the final transcript? wont this open up pandoras box for licensing the way that st martinus was trying to scam students into doing?

7. who presently has custody of the transcripts? mua-sc or senegal-sc?

azskeptic
03-31-2006, 09:56 AM
http://www.sanpedrosun.net/old/01-233.html


St. Matthew's was never "kicked" out of Belize. We moved out on our own. The school was planning on building a new campus on the island, but obviously scrapped those plans when the opportunity to move to the cayman islands became a possibility.

CorporateRaider
03-31-2006, 09:57 AM
SCOTT1981:
ok, i understand that the school split in two directions with the same name. im confused about a some things. can someone help me out with these questions.

1. the letter announcing the merger with mua belize went out to sc students. the question is, whose students are they at this point?

CPRAIDER: The students belong to no one. You cannot own a student.

2. it was said on here that it is safe to stay with senegal because it was them who students were with all along. so my question is, if you do chose this route, will you have to deal with mua-sc to get your records transferred to senegal sc?

CPRAIDER: So long as the Senegalese did not maintain a copy of each students records, yes.

3. if you do have to go through mua-sc to transfer your records, what will it say on your transcript when it comes time for licensing? will it state it like your credits came from two schools since your records at one point were the custody of mua-sc?

CPRAIDER: No matter how much, a school with a name similar to MUA -SC wants, credits are not retro-active under any circumstances. Look and see who allegedly made the announcement.

4. if you chose to stick with mua-sc, will your transcript show credits from two different schools.

CPRAIDER: Yes, your transcripts would reflect that.

5. why is the mua-sc sending out letters to "their" students?

CPRAIDER: Apparently to try to "win" them back.

6. i guess a lot boils down to this. which school will list the previous credits before the split as theirs on the final transcripts at graduation.......sort of keeping one school on the final transcript? wont this open up pandoras box for licensing the way that st martinus was trying to scam students into doing?

CPRAIDER: Pandora's box, Vlad Dracul's coffin, etc.. any educational regulator worth a damn will look down upon an arrangement such as this, under any circumstances. Apparently, someone trying to play "hop scotch charter" , would you want to be involved?

7. who presently has custody of the transcripts? mua-sc or senegal-sc?

CPRAIDER: Hopefully, both the College and the University have a copy.

MDXRS22
03-31-2006, 09:59 AM
Thanks for this detail!
Az has always some good news archived for all purpose:)

azskeptic
03-31-2006, 10:02 AM
Thanks for this detail!
Az has always some good news archived for all purpose:)Yes, if you review my postings on SC since 2003 you'll find similiar tidbits that could have helped one to make some decisions?

MDXRS22
03-31-2006, 10:19 AM
Indeed!
I surely did read most, if not all. Ad to tell the truth, bull's eye or right on the dime.light aways wins over darkness. It was one of the major reasons I left my acceptance to SC on the side. One of my former classmates thought that I was wrong doing so.

Scott1981
03-31-2006, 10:25 AM
SCOTT1981:
ok, i understand that the school split in two directions with the same name. im confused about a some things. can someone help me out with these questions.

1. the letter announcing the merger with mua belize went out to sc students. the question is, whose students are they at this point?

CPRAIDER: The students belong to no one. You cannot own a student.

2. it was said on here that it is safe to stay with senegal because it was them who students were with all along. so my question is, if you do chose this route, will you have to deal with mua-sc to get your records transferred to senegal sc?

CPRAIDER: So long as the Senegalese did not maintain a copy of each students records, yes.

3. if you do have to go through mua-sc to transfer your records, what will it say on your transcript when it comes time for licensing? will it state it like your credits came from two schools since your records at one point were the custody of mua-sc?

CPRAIDER: No matter how much, a school with a name similar to MUA -SC wants, credits are not retro-active under any circumstances. Look and see who allegedly made the announcement.

4. if you chose to stick with mua-sc, will your transcript show credits from two different schools.

CPRAIDER: Yes, your transcripts would reflect that.

5. why is the mua-sc sending out letters to "their" students?

CPRAIDER: Apparently to try to "win" them back.

6. i guess a lot boils down to this. which school will list the previous credits before the split as theirs on the final transcripts at graduation.......sort of keeping one school on the final transcript? wont this open up pandoras box for licensing the way that st martinus was trying to scam students into doing?

CPRAIDER: Pandora's box, Vlad Dracul's coffin, etc.. any educational regulator worth a damn will look down upon an arrangement such as this, under any circumstances. Apparently, someone trying to play "hop scotch charter" , would you want to be involved?

7. who presently has custody of the transcripts? mua-sc or senegal-sc?

CPRAIDER: Hopefully, both the College and the University have a copy.

im willing to put money that this mr L will try to market to the students the same crap that st martinus did, minus the comprehensive exams.

mua-belize..... what were they thinking?

i hope for the senegal sc student's sake, the country gets one of those recognition papers sent to ecfmg like mua-sc ASAP.

maximillian genossa
03-31-2006, 01:11 PM
What a frigging mess!:!:

azskeptic
03-31-2006, 01:28 PM
What a frigging mess!:!:

So for those who are confused L has merged his company with MUA-Belize. The Senegal private investors are trying to start another school,since they don't own St. Chris-Luton but apparently have control of St. Chris-Senegal. Estimated 800 students are trying to decide which side to be on and they have questions as to their problems with their transcripts,did their studies count,etc. Stay tuned for more details as they emerge. I am guessing we won't know how this all turns out for a while.

NOTKNOW
03-31-2006, 03:26 PM
what if a student took the boards yesterday or today, or even in the last month, and now this new merger announced

does anyone know how we are affected are we still in hot water if we took our boards when the ecfmg approved us

solideliquid
03-31-2006, 07:00 PM
no, read the belize sun and the network54 files on exactly what that "oportunity" as you call it, to move was. there were allegations of fraud, money laundering, security thugs thretening students, the dean using school funds to buy a cigarette boat, widespread cheating with security guards selling answers to tests, and a huge fall out with law suits on both sides.

it was "easier" for st mats to move out. were they planning it all along? not likely, read up on the groundbreaking for the new campus on ambergis caye in belize for st mathew's circa 1996...would a school buying land, had all plans, etc seem to you like it was planing all along to move to another island rent some used cable company building in the middle of a semester? doesn't sound like it was well planed then..hehe in the end it worked out great but read up on your own school's troubled youth...each schools has theirs i know mine does....

back to topic

Read up on it? I was THERE. I started SMU in Jan 2002, the last semester the school was in Belize. I was there for the planning, and I was there for the move. Then I went to Maine, lol. (after two semesters in the caymans)

Anyway, they were getting ready to build a new campus on the island, as I said in my post. During the semester the school had the opportunity to move to the caymans. Were you there? Are you an SMU student?

Dr. S, the ex president of SMU (now MUA/Belize) was ousted because he was embezzling funds/tuition from the school.

And go ahead and trust the Belize newspaper if you want to, as a result of living in Belize I am not that trusting.

Scott1981
03-31-2006, 07:07 PM
is this the same dr. s that posts on vmd?

solideliquid
03-31-2006, 07:17 PM
Yes.





0000

Scott1981
03-31-2006, 07:21 PM
the dr s that posts here is listed on the mua belize website as a professor of histology and med psych...... not the president. is there something more to it?

Scott1981
03-31-2006, 07:27 PM
woa.... i got it all. from: http://www.sanpedrosun.net/old/04-194.html

i orginally posted the complete article here, but i realized that its way to long to edit individual names out of it. ill just leave the link.

Scott1981
03-31-2006, 07:34 PM
the dr s that i see around here is his wife. she is the professor there that i talked about 2 posts above.

it sounds like he never intended to become a physician. just wanted the title "MD."

he most likely didnt even take the usmle because he went to england for his rotations...... a way back then to avoid having to pass the usmle to move on into rotations at auc. plus he was back in belize so soon, not enough time to even complete a residency.

it also shows that he was in cali for a time. once again, this was probably right before he went to england. auc used to allow you to do psych without a passing usmle step 1 score as well. this cali stint was most likely at norwalk.

question is, is this the path that his wife took too? did she ever take the boards and go onto residency? what are her qualifications to teaching histology and med psych?


one thing i do find funny about all this......... without AUC, there would be no SMU :lol:.

drforlife
03-31-2006, 10:16 PM
Neither SMU nor MUA- belize....

So then, the smu cayman is pure business people that owned a resort in belize and saw that they could make more tons of cash being by themselves... They got all right and it is a fine school.

It's such a huge business the caribbean...

So, the micro -maybe dean at MUA-nevis in 2001, goes to St. chris... stay there for couple of semester as the Dean, just leave one day without notice and end up next term- Jan 2003 at SMU as micro teacher and his 2 sons @ schools, soon he became basic science dean. Dr. N !

Then , the original founder.. of SMU left over by the investors, join forces with 2 other med. schools and stick with belize. Now, MUA- belize get together also with st. chris...

Another ny psych- indian, goes to st. chris as psych teacher, became dean, leave later, create IAU and is also affiliated with School in Gyana.

solideliquid
03-31-2006, 10:39 PM
the dr s that i see around here is his wife. she is the professor there that i talked about 2 posts above.

it sounds like he never intended to become a physician. just wanted the title "MD."

he most likely didnt even take the usmle because he went to england for his rotations...... a way back then to avoid having to pass the usmle to move on into rotations at auc. plus he was back in belize so soon, not enough time to even complete a residency.

question is, is this the path that his wife took too? did she ever take the boards and go onto residency? what are her qualifications to teaching histology and med psych?


one thing i do find funny about all this......... without AUC, there would be no SMU :lol:.

OK right, that's his wife posting on VMD. Apparently yes, he graduated from AUC and started his own med school soon after without ever practicing medicine.

To the above poster, no the admin of SMU did not own a resort. THe school was set up (temp. buildings) on land which was owned by a nearby resort. The owner of which I think was on the board at the time.

I remember when I started in Belize Dr. S started MUA and it was like 500m down the road in a two story building which he rented on a weekly rate. It was a very odd situation. I feel the initial students that filled the ranks of MUA were ex-SMU students who liked the cheap lifestyle Belize offered.

And as you can see, Dr. S is the "darling" of Belize. He seems to hold the residents of the island in higher importance than the students of his med school.

AUCMD2006
03-31-2006, 11:33 PM
Read up on it? I was THERE. I started SMU in Jan 2002, the last semester the school was in Belize. I was there for the planning, and I was there for the move. Then I went to Maine, lol. (after two semesters in the caymans)

Anyway, they were getting ready to build a new campus on the island, as I said in my post. During the semester the school had the opportunity to move to the caymans. Were you there? Are you an SMU student?

Dr. S, the ex president of SMU (now MUA/Belize) was ousted because he was embezzling funds/tuition from the school.

And go ahead and trust the Belize newspaper if you want to, as a result of living in Belize I am not that trusting.

actually i was a SMU student during that time, acceptance deposits and all..that is why i researched the school carefully. your post is spining events that should be told to show that the school has gone through a rough time and not only survived but thrived showing that it is going to be around a long time.

SMU did not move on a long thought out plan, it was the lesser of two evils at the time.

don't get me wrong, the school turned out well and i have the utmost respect for dr T as a man of the highest morals with the way he dealt with me personally and has always dealt with students but you are trying to paing a picture that just isn't so.

it was a rough time for SMU then and trying to paint it as a great time and the school gleefully boping along looking for an 'oportunity' to disrupt classes and move the entire operation to another country is ** filled with a ** caramel filling

maybe we can move this to the SMU forum, this is entirely off topic for this thread.

AUCMD2006
04-01-2006, 12:22 AM
i think the scfmg said they would honor any approvals they had already made.

solideliquid
04-01-2006, 01:15 AM
actually i was a SMU student during that time, acceptance deposits and all..that is why i researched the school carefully. your post is spining events that should be told to show that the school has gone through a rough time and not only survived but thrived showing that it is going to be around a long time.

SMU did not move on a long thought out plan, it was the lesser of two evils at the time.

don't get me wrong, the school turned out well and i have the utmost respect for dr T as a man of the highest morals with the way he dealt with me personally and has always dealt with students but you are trying to paing a picture that just isn't so.

it was a rough time for SMU then and trying to paint it as a great time and the school gleefully boping along looking for an 'oportunity' to disrupt classes and move the entire operation to another country is ** filled with a ** caramel filling

maybe we can move this to the SMU forum, this is entirely off topic for this thread.

I completely agree! I was trying to convey that in my post. They were looking to build on the island before moving to cayman. Moving to cayman was sort of a spur of the moment decision. But it turned out great in the end, I was very happy to learn medicine on grand cayman. I hated living in Belize, the locals treated us badly even though we were the main economic force on the island.

There was absolutely no room to grow for ANY medical school in Belize, I don't care what MUA people tell you. And property taxes were like 18% or something.

NOTKNOW
04-01-2006, 01:02 PM
no i know its honored but will it hurt one to take it under the umbrella of this school or should they take it under another school

angel_fyre
04-01-2006, 01:14 PM
I have spoken to the ECFMG and i have also contacted many licencing boards such as NY. I told them the agenda my school "St.Chris" had with merging with MUA-belize, thier reply was that even though St.Chris has merged with belize or they merge with any country with a valid charter this still dose not deem St.Chris eligble for ECFMG certification. The reason is very simple, St.Chris is under investigation by the ECFMG for many reasons most of them parallel the same as the GMC investigation. Quality of education, charter..ect..ect..she told me very simply that this DOSE NOT in any way solve the problem that in turn it may cause more problems and could very well put MUA-belize at risk..she did not tell me what risk this was.

To my understanding the merging was a BIG bussiness deal for Dr.Liar and the owners of Belize, to contract something stable for students and re assure them. WELL it BACK FIRED...it is very very very simple ANY current St.Chris student that are still in Luton have something wrong with them. Why in gods name are people still in those buildings? waking up for class? and whatever else?...i dont understand maybe these people cant come to terms with themselves that they have lost alot (education,money, effort) any are just trying to deny the facts.

Dear Current St.Chris Students

Get the hell out of this SCHOOL, I dont know why ANYONE is still there, try and see the obvious.. Yes its good to be positive and hope for the best, but you guys must also be realistic and do whats best for your future. Make your choice by looking at the problems this can cause in the future..think about would you really wanna get that far and not have it worth a single thing. If you do choose to stay your gambling with your future,money,efforts and everything else.

angel_fyre
04-01-2006, 01:37 PM
This merge thing is a complete joke. The ECFMG is not stupid and after haveing spoken with them they clearly verified this will not work. The problems ECFMG has is not just with St.Chris's charter issues its many different things. Dr. L is truly the biggest (had to delete the word___fill in with anything you like) i have seen in my whole 23 years of existence and anyone that follows in his foot steps is just as stupid.

Blocks81
04-01-2006, 01:46 PM
i agree with angelfyre, this merger or alliance makes st chris look even shadier than before. It makes st chris look like they never even had a charter from senegal.

blythplace
04-01-2006, 01:53 PM
well you MUST be the authority on this matter so i should DEFINITELY transfer.
Gimme a break- you're a poster on vmd- you know as much as everyone else- which is what we've heard from a student or an administrator or someone completely outside the situation.


No thanks- i think i'll wait on what the ecfmg OFFICIAL ruling is on this before i run away. Yeah our school has problems- we've got that part so you guys can stop yelling/whining; we're all waiting on what the ecfmg says.

empathy
04-01-2006, 02:29 PM
Angel -

You were smart to call the ECFMG. The sad thing about the deal the old St. Chris struck with MUA is that it only saves the admin. The charter change leaves students attending St. Chris/MUA in hot water. Right now they have a transcript full of credits rec'd from a college that was unable to prove that it had a charter. The admin found a way to cont. making money with no thought of how their decision would affect the students. They are basically just running scared. The only hope for students who wish to remain with St. Chris is to go with Senegal and hope that they are able to convince the GMC and ECFMG that they are under new management and they have a valid charter.


I have spoken to the ECFMG and i have also contacted many licencing boards such as NY. I told them the agenda my school "St.Chris" had with merging with MUA-belize, thier reply was that even though St.Chris has merged with belize or they merge with any country with a valid charter this still dose not deem St.Chris eligble for ECFMG certification. The reason is very simple, St.Chris is under investigation by the ECFMG for many reasons most of them parallel the same as the GMC investigation. Quality of education, charter..ect..ect..she told me very simply that this DOSE NOT in any way solve the problem that in turn it may cause more problems and could very well put MUA-belize at risk..she did not tell me what risk this was.

To my understanding the merging was a BIG bussiness deal for Dr.Liar and the owners of Belize, to contract something stable for students and re assure them. WELL it BACK FIRED...it is very very very simple ANY current St.Chris student that are still in Luton have something wrong with them. Why in gods name are people still in those buildings? waking up for class? and whatever else?...i dont understand maybe these people cant come to terms with themselves that they have lost alot (education,money, effort) any are just trying to deny the facts.

Dear Current St.Chris Students

Get the hell out of this SCHOOL, I dont know why ANYONE is still there, try and see the obvious.. Yes its good to be positive and hope for the best, but you guys must also be realistic and do whats best for your future. Make your choice by looking at the problems this can cause in the future..think about would you really wanna get that far and not have it worth a single thing. If you do choose to stay your gambling with your future,money,efforts and everything else.

angel_fyre
04-01-2006, 02:52 PM
well you MUST be the authority on this matter so i should DEFINITELY transfer.
Gimme a break- you're a poster on vmd- you know as much as everyone else- which is what we've heard from a student or an administrator or someone completely outside the situation.


No thanks- i think i'll wait on what the ecfmg OFFICIAL ruling is on this before i run away. Yeah our school has problems- we've got that part so you guys can stop yelling/whining; we're all waiting on what the ecfmg says.

i dont know if you should DEFINITELY transfer but you DEFINITELY have some issues going on with your thinking and everything else. trust me i tried to write that as nice as i could..so i dont get a violation.Give me a break LOOK at the situation of the school, do you not have something called common sence, i can say with confidence that the ECFMG will in no way shape or form approve St.Chris..i dont understand why are you so keen on staying there, when the schools health is so bad. YOU obviously dont think clear even if they some how manage to get it, your gona have a hell of a time getting a licence, think about that..your just looking short term.

angel_fyre
04-01-2006, 02:59 PM
your right this was just a move by the admin to cover themselves, it still leaves the students high and dry, i dont understand why current students dont understand this. If senegal can somehow convince the GMC and the ECFMG that they are under new rule, then they might have a chance of existing. But the big question still has not been answered CAN A MEDICAL SCHOOL RUN OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY OF CHARTER? so even if senegal dose take over and everything is o.k..will it cause problems in the future? the experinment dose not seem to be working so why take the risk getting involved. This is just a big mess

empathy
04-01-2006, 03:08 PM
How do you explain the chain of events that have occured over the last few months:

Radio FiveLive Report followed by the BBC article.

GMC Investigation.

Cleveland Clinic Program Closed.

ECFMG Puts a Hold on Applicants.

St. Chris Admin split with Senegal.

Do you think the story is going to have a happy ending?


Also, who is at fault here?

The students?

Senegal?

The Admin?

Someone is causing all of this bad stuff to happen. If you follow that someone you'll never become a doctor.

angel_fyre
04-01-2006, 03:29 PM
How do you explain the chain of events that have occured over the last few months:

Radio FiveLive Report followed by the BBC article.

GMC Investigation.

Cleveland Clinic Program Closed.

ECFMG Puts a Hold on Applicants.

St. Chris Admin split with Senegal.

Do you think the story is going to have a happy ending?


Also, who is at fault here?

The students?

Senegal?

The Admin?

Someone is causing all of this bad stuff to happen. If you follow that someone you'll never become a doctor.

Very true wonder if thier are any students who are taking that path? personally i dont think the senegal route is much better either, given they are a 3rd world beat down country who have alot more to worry about then St.Chris

bts4202
04-01-2006, 03:41 PM
Who cares what PL does with his luton building? It is not like he will have any students. Well, maybe he will half a half dozen or so. Plus, the GMC has also already said they will not approve of him buying a caribbean charter, so he is basically just making his last stand... who cares?

empathy
04-01-2006, 03:45 PM
I believe it could work - this group almost did it. St. Chris could have been a HUGE success. Ultimately it was the admin's lies that destroyed the college. The idea was good but the people in charge couldn't control their egos. They lied about themselves and the college. Destroying both in the process.

I think if some respectable someone attempts to run a college outside of its country of charter he'll succeed. But he'll have to be beyond reproach because no doubt from here on out people will be watching. The old St. Chris just made life harder on everyone.


your right this was just a move by the admin to cover themselves, it still leaves the students high and dry, i dont understand why current students dont understand this. If senegal can somehow convince the GMC and the ECFMG that they are under new rule, then they might have a chance of existing. But the big question still has not been answered CAN A MEDICAL SCHOOL RUN OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY OF CHARTER? so even if senegal dose take over and everything is o.k..will it cause problems in the future? the experinment dose not seem to be working so why take the risk getting involved. This is just a big mess

###
04-01-2006, 04:01 PM
................

dt
04-01-2006, 04:27 PM
I wonder why out-of-the-country campus like Cornell and its medical school in Qatar need their own charter. If it is difficult to do so for Cornell, I wouldnt hold much hope for St. Chris Luton and Senegal.

angel_fyre
04-01-2006, 04:28 PM
the ECFMG lady said that if St.Chris gets regected, i mean the current St.Chris under PL...and that is the St.Chris they are investigating... that even though they might have an affiliation with MUA if they were to be regected then current students from St.Chris will still not be eligible for certification. Which makes perfect sence...the ECFMG are aware whats going and why PL is doing what hes doing, her words were "We know whats goign on, and how to handle the situation" ...the GMC regected St.Chris straight out..they did ther investigation and that was their conclusion...so if they rejected St.Chris why do people still think that they will get the ECFMG certification back...i mean they ECFMG dose know that UK gave them the boot what makes people think they wont rule the same?the chances of them rejecting st.chris are very high, it makes sence, they for one already dont like this merging **

empathy
04-01-2006, 04:28 PM
You should care about the admin and what they have done to students. They have lied and cheated people. Do you realize that many of these students have taken out loans that they are still responsible for?

It's pretty obvious that a new spin is in town...the old admin have been fired and now the students are trying to save the school. Come on is that the best you guys could come up with? It doesn't even make sense. Senegal was in bed with the admin ... why aren't they taking them to court? If they want the school why would they make it the students responsibility to get the admin they were in business with out of the president's top floor office? You guys aren't professional lawyers or business men. You don't even hold a degree yet. No government, not even a third world country, would put such inexperienced individuals in charge of something so complex.

I have never heard of a business expecting its consumers not only to buy its product but to man the registers as well. I hate to send you back to the drawing board sweetie because I know you guys burned the midnight oil on this story but come on.


Who cares what PL does with his luton building? It is not like he will have any students. Well, maybe he will half a half dozen or so. Plus, the GMC has also already said they will not approve of him buying a caribbean charter, so he is basically just making his last stand... who cares?

dt
04-01-2006, 04:31 PM
Who cares what PL does with his luton building? It is not like he will have any students. Well, maybe he will half a half dozen or so. Plus, the GMC has also already said they will not approve of him buying a caribbean charter, so he is basically just making his last stand... who cares?

He may be able to execute the same modus operandi as before. Why not? There are always other student cheerleaders out there somewhere.

drforlife
04-01-2006, 04:31 PM
OK right, that's his wife posting on VMD. Apparently yes, he graduated from AUC and started his own med school soon after without ever practicing medicine.

To the above poster, no the admin of SMU did not own a resort. THe school was set up (temp. buildings) on land which was owned by a nearby resort. The owner of which I think was on the board at the time.

I remember when I started in Belize Dr. S started MUA and it was like 500m down the road in a two story building which he rented on a weekly rate. It was a very odd situation. I feel the initial students that filled the ranks of MUA were ex-SMU students who liked the cheap lifestyle Belize offered.

And as you can see, Dr. S is the "darling" of Belize. He seems to hold the residents of the island in higher importance than the students of his med school.

Well, Dr. H himself - SMU president and man that bought the shares and went to cayman and left Dr. S to create MUA-belize - said when the school applied to NY that he used to own a resort in Belize.

blythplace
04-01-2006, 04:56 PM
I'll wait on Bill ***** to make a statement rather than some "lady".
Everyone's yelling to transfer because of how dumb us staying with the school is. If we TRANSFER- that means that whatever school takes us- is taking our credits- it would be the same problems with licensure as if this deal hadn't gone through and we just picked MUA belize to transfer to or sint eustacius or AUA or on and on and on.... The school would essentially be accepting a non ecfmg school's credits when the student transferred in.
You guys are upset. We got it. We're the student's. We're upset too. And empathy- what is your deal of saying "is this best we could do??"- So you're saying that somehow in the grand scheme of things we as St. Chris students called and set up the belize merger? I mean i get your point,you hate st. chris- move on.

smoohead
04-01-2006, 05:19 PM
Hey look who's back from her ban :D

empathy
04-01-2006, 05:32 PM
How long have you been at St. Chris now 3 months?


Hey look who's back from her ban :D

smoohead
04-01-2006, 06:52 PM
Yep, since January. Why do you ask?


How long have you been at St. Chris now 3 months?

CorporateRaider
04-01-2006, 09:07 PM
I have to agree. Since credits were earned under the recognition of Senegal, with Senegal you must stay.
On the other hand it's not so much as in which building did you earn them, that is secondary.




Who cares what PL does with his luton building? It is not like he will have any students. Well, maybe he will half a half dozen or so. Plus, the GMC has also already said they will not approve of him buying a caribbean charter, so he is basically just making his last stand... who cares?

bts4202
04-02-2006, 10:08 AM
The ECFMG and GMC are both well aware of what is going on and as you said, are very suspicioud if the activities of PL. The Senegalese are being given a bit more leeway. You all are right, they will have to prove their valor, but they haven;t been struck off quite the way PL has been.

angel_fyre
04-02-2006, 02:55 PM
so bts whats your plan of action are you staying and seeing if everything goes through? or have you chosen another route?

sheikh1
04-02-2006, 03:11 PM
It is a shame the senegla....have no say in all this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tiredintern
04-02-2006, 03:18 PM
i dont even understand why people are now debating senegal vs MUA bottom line is that ig you spent more than 1 semester doing basic sciences outside of your charter country you are taking a big big chance when it comes time to licensing. Add to that spotted history / way too much media attention.. all of it meticulously document forever on the web.. and it really really begs the question of starting over somewhere else. I think off shore schools all prey on this element of learned helplessness that comes from 1. being a failure not getting into a US school and 2. consistent exposure to harsh academic and social strains while trying to survive in an unfamiliar environment. Open your eyes folks.. this is a problem that you will eventually have to face either now or 5-10 years from now.

angel_fyre
04-02-2006, 03:31 PM
i dont even understand why people are now debating senegal vs MUA bottom line is that ig you spent more than 1 semester doing basic sciences outside of your charter country you are taking a big big chance when it comes time to licensing. Add to that spotted history / way too much media attention.. all of it meticulously document forever on the web.. and it really really begs the question of starting over somewhere else. I think off shore schools all prey on this element of learned helplessness that comes from 1. being a failure not getting into a US school and 2. consistent exposure to harsh academic and social strains while trying to survive in an unfamiliar environment. Open your eyes folks.. this is a problem that you will eventually have to face either now or 5-10 years from now.

exactly what current St.Chris students dont understand is that if they choose to say thier future its gona hold many problems. There thinking whats best from there right now and trying to rationalize something..what they should be thinking about is exactly what you said...when it comes time for getting a licence in 5-10 years.

CorporateRaider
04-11-2006, 08:58 PM
Any students want to comment on the vist by doctor representitive from MUA - BELIZE?

Good job to the student with the video clips from the meeting.

pruritis_ani
04-11-2006, 09:14 PM
What I heard sounded like a strange mix of the Jerry Springer show and a time-share sales seminar...

Dicey characters...I would be wary of this MUA-B woman. Still absolutely blows my mind that people would fall for this same crap on a different island. I mean, if you are going to transfer to the carib anyway, why on earth would you go with the same dude that screwed you and to a second rate school? If you are going to transfer out, get out, and go to a good school.

gazpacho
04-12-2006, 12:16 AM
Good job to the student with the video clips from the meeting.
Where are these?

CorporateRaider
04-12-2006, 08:03 AM
Archos AV Digital Media Recorder. Sound was not to bright , but on the other hand, someone else taped the audio, now all you would need is someone that can splice the two together.

gazpacho
04-12-2006, 09:01 AM
Archos AV Digital Media Recorder. Sound was not to bright , but on the other hand, someone else taped the audio, now all you would need is someone that can splice the two together.

Ok but are they available online somewhere? Where did you hear of this anyway?

smoohead
04-12-2006, 01:45 PM
Yeah but for the most part, people are not falling for it. General concensus is to transfer and stay away from MUA altogether. If you hear the audio/see the video... they didn't exactly get a warm reception.


What I heard sounded like a strange mix of the Jerry Springer show and a time-share sales seminar...

Dicey characters...I would be wary of this MUA-B woman. Still absolutely blows my mind that people would fall for this same crap on a different island. I mean, if you are going to transfer to the carib anyway, why on earth would you go with the same dude that screwed you and to a second rate school? If you are going to transfer out, get out, and go to a good school.

CorporateRaider
04-12-2006, 04:02 PM
I heard a guy with an "african" style accent (he was speaking english) and he was really in the face of the MUA representative. I heard the argument over the need for a government to "back" a medical school. I also heard the MUA representative pose questions such as:

"who awards the degree's you have"

and the students in the background were heard saying: "the government has to award the degree" and the rep from MUA was saying "I will answer that question for you.................the degree is awarded by the college you attend."

The above while not a 100% word by word transcription, does capture the essence.

badshah
04-13-2006, 11:00 AM
Hello Ppl
There is alot of controversy about St. Chris. There are many rumors also. Is st.christopher a good school or a bad school?
Thanks

Miklos
04-13-2006, 11:04 AM
Hello Ppl
There is alot of controversy about St. Chris. There are many rumors also. Is st.christopher a good school or a bad school?
Thanks

I think that the real question is much more fundamental than that:

Is SC a chartered school? If so, by whom?

PathOne
04-13-2006, 01:47 PM
I think that the real question is much more fundamental than that:

Is SC a chartered school? If so, by whom?

Actually, there's two charter questions:

1. Is St. Chris in Dakar chartered by the Senegalese gov't?
2. Is St. Chris Luton a valid and bona fide affiliate of St. Chris Dakar, and thus legally covered by the St. Chris charter in Senegal?

Now, for a long time, there's been focus on issue #2. However, at least the UK licensing authority, GMC, officially isn't convinced that St. Chris Dakar has a valid charter, in which case question #2 obviously becomes a moot point. According to the GMC, NONE of the two schools have a valid charter. As been posted elsewhere, ECFMG in the US isn't satisfied either about the validity of the charter.

"The following medical schools are currently listed in the WHO directory based on its recognition by the government of the relevant country. However, the GMC is not satisfied about the status of the schools' programmes in the UK with respect to the schools' recognition by the government nor is it assured that the schools' are subject to adequate quality assurance arrangements. At the present time, the GMC is not registering graduates who hold primary medical qualifications obtained from the medical schools listed below. Moreover, g raduates from these schools are not permitted to make a booking or to take the Professional Linguistic Assessment Board (PLAB) test.

St Christopher's College of Medicine
Dakar, Senegal
Saint Luke School of Medicine
206 Broad Street, Luke Building, 3471 Monrovia, Liberia"

dt
04-13-2006, 07:38 PM
Or, follow the money. who's paying the teachers and staff?

gazpacho
04-13-2006, 08:16 PM
I heard a guy with an "african" style accent (he was speaking english) and he was really in the face of the MUA representative. I heard the argument over the need for a government to "back" a medical school. I also heard the MUA representative pose questions such as:

"who awards the degree's you have"

and the students in the background were heard saying: "the government has to award the degree" and the rep from MUA was saying "I will answer that question for you.................the degree is awarded by the college you attend."

The above while not a 100% word by word transcription, does capture the essence.
It's hilarious!! I love the part around 20 - 25 mins... "we need to set some ground rules!"

Excellent questions though. RS claimed that the charter has always been valid and never been revoked... since 2000! "None of the documents ever mention the Luton campus" RS: "ACTUALLY THEY DO!"

Dr S reminds me of such a typical American soccer mom, and sounds to me like she would fit in quite well at a local wal-mart (and maybe not the head of a medical school). I loved how she talked about her little kids, and how they'd be a great workout for medical students to take care of. In any case, even before all this, she lost all cred when she decided not to do a residency... how can you possibly call yourself doctor if you're basically unqualified to do basic "doctoring"? Obviously if you're got an MD, you're technically a doctor, but it's still pretty sketch.

pruritis_ani
04-13-2006, 08:38 PM
What I found interesting were the claims about the degree validity and licensure. It strikes me as odd that she can claim to be such an expert and assure students that there will be no problems when a) some SC students already are apparently having licensing problems, b) there has never been an MUA-B grad to test any of the licensing waters before this SC debacle (so how can she be so sure of the warm reception) and c) she has obviously never gone through it herself. It is pretty clear that the boards are paying attention to this, and to the movements of Mr. L. It would be quite niave to simply assume all will be well. All has not turned out well thus far, for anything related to Mr. L.

Simply a sales pitch by somebody who simply is giving an optimistic prediction, with nothing really to base it on.

I am hopeful, that as smoohead mentioned above, the students are not falling for this crap. I am certainly not a believer in the "honorable" Senegalese solution either, but this MUA-B fiasco is just the begining of another nightmare, IMHO. I really hope the current MUA-B students don't get sucked into a wave of destruction, but I cannot see how they can avoid it.

If Mr. L is in any way affiliated with your school, by far the best option is to transfer. That man is a menace, and will suck your cash from you like a vampire before leaving you flapping in the wind with a useless degree. Don't believe me? Fine. See you at McDonald's, and no, I don't want fries with that.

MUA-B students need to send the admin of the school a message...transfer. MUA-B could simply have accepted SC students in transfer without this merger. By becoming bedfellows with this character, they indicate that they really don't care about the current students, and will sell the school to the devil to make a buck.

BrazilianDoc
04-13-2006, 09:28 PM
WHo is paying all the adds on valuemd?? how many students besides clinicals, are not transfering??

tanisha
05-18-2006, 09:49 PM
is the campus in luton still in existence or is is dead since the merge with MUA-Belize?

tanisha
05-22-2006, 12:50 AM
What I found interesting were the claims about the degree validity and licensure. It strikes me as odd that she can claim to be such an expert and assure students that there will be no problems when a) some SC students already are apparently having licensing problems, b) there has never been an MUA-B grad to test any of the licensing waters before this SC debacle (so how can she be so sure of the warm reception) and c) she has obviously never gone through it herself. It is pretty clear that the boards are paying attention to this, and to the movements of Mr. L. It would be quite niave to simply assume all will be well. All has not turned out well thus far, for anything related to Mr. L.

Simply a sales pitch by somebody who simply is giving an optimistic prediction, with nothing really to base it on.

I am hopeful, that as smoohead mentioned above, the students are not falling for this crap. I am certainly not a believer in the "honorable" Senegalese solution either, but this MUA-B fiasco is just the begining of another nightmare, IMHO. I really hope the current MUA-B students don't get sucked into a wave of destruction, but I cannot see how they can avoid it.

If Mr. L is in any way affiliated with your school, by far the best option is to transfer. That man is a menace, and will suck your cash from you like a vampire before leaving you flapping in the wind with a useless degree. Don't believe me? Fine. See you at McDonald's, and no, I don't want fries with that.

MUA-B students need to send the admin of the school a message...transfer. MUA-B could simply have accepted SC students in transfer without this merger. By becoming bedfellows with this character, they indicate that they really don't care about the current students, and will sell the school to the devil to make a buck.

in all honesty lets speak the truth, i swear i am not nor do i wish to trash this school, but this schools fails to tell students the truth and is only intersted in the money that can be collected from its students. the welfare of the students was never an issue nor will it be. there a are lot of students who have transferred eithr to other carribean schools or have just left. YOU ARE TRULY RISKING IT IF YOU CHOOSE TO STAY HERE!!!

tanisha
05-22-2006, 01:02 AM
What I found interesting were the claims about the degree validity and licensure. It strikes me as odd that she can claim to be such an expert and assure students that there will be no problems when a) some SC students already are apparently having licensing problems, b) there has never been an MUA-B grad to test any of the licensing waters before this SC debacle (so how can she be so sure of the warm reception) and c) she has obviously never gone through it herself. It is pretty clear that the boards are paying attention to this, and to the movements of Mr. L. It would be quite niave to simply assume all will be well. All has not turned out well thus far, for anything related to Mr. L.

Simply a sales pitch by somebody who simply is giving an optimistic prediction, with nothing really to base it on.

I am hopeful, that as smoohead mentioned above, the students are not falling for this crap. I am certainly not a believer in the "honorable" Senegalese solution either, but this MUA-B fiasco is just the begining of another nightmare, IMHO. I really hope the current MUA-B students don't get sucked into a wave of destruction, but I cannot see how they can avoid it.

If Mr. L is in any way affiliated with your school, by far the best option is to transfer. That man is a menace, and will suck your cash from you like a vampire before leaving you flapping in the wind with a useless degree. Don't believe me? Fine. See you at McDonald's, and no, I don't want fries with that.

MUA-B students need to send the admin of the school a message...transfer. MUA-B could simply have accepted SC students in transfer without this merger. By becoming bedfellows with this character, they indicate that they really don't care about the current students, and will sell the school to the devil to make a buck.

the administrators have left, soon there will not be a st/ chris that will even exixt. there are 2 bulidings that are 5 min. away from each other because the admin. can not sit up and tell what is really going on. the buildings are slowly being destroyed by students, putting raw chiken and hiding it bringing that awful smell inside the buildings. i have tried repeatedly to get my money back, all i keep getting is the run around so at avoid it , so they can take it like Dr. **** did and run, which is why st. chris is in the mess that it is now. be smart and leave. A SCHOOL THAT DOES NOT HAVE ECFMG CERTIFICATION AND ISN'T WHO LISTED DOES NOTHING FOR YOU, THE DEGREE IS WORTHLESS. and those of you who think that the school is now saved because it merged with MUA-belize are also wrong for thinking this, beaceuse tempoarily they don't have ecfmg certification and it isn't even sure if they'll ever have it, the only thing that MUA-belize has is that it is WHO listed and that how the students that transferred were able to. Merging still does not change the fact that is still NOT GMC approved. Their number is 011 44 845 357 3456 for those who want to call and ask yourselves. I know i may be banned from this site being that I have 3 warning issue citations but i don't think it's fair to push someone into the pool without telling them how deep the water is first.

nchi
05-22-2006, 10:56 AM
the administrators have left, soon there will not be a st/ chris that will even exixt. there are 2 bulidings that are 5 min. away from each other because the admin. can not sit up and tell what is really going on. the buildings are slowly being destroyed by students, putting raw chiken and hiding it bringing that awful smell inside the buildings. i have tried repeatedly to get my money back, all i keep getting is the run around so at avoid it , so they can take it like Dr. **** did and run, which is why st. chris is in the mess that it is now. be smart and leave. A SCHOOL THAT DOES NOT HAVE ECFMG CERTIFICATION AND ISN'T WHO LISTED DOES NOTHING FOR YOU, THE DEGREE IS WORTHLESS. and those of you who think that the school is now saved because it merged with MUA-belize are also wrong for thinking this, beaceuse tempoarily they don't have ecfmg certification and it isn't even sure if they'll ever have it, the only thing that MUA-belize has is that it is WHO listed and that how the students that transferred were able to. Merging still does not change the fact that is still NOT GMC approved. Their number is 011 44 845 357 3456 for those who want to call and ask yourselves. I know i may be banned from this site being that I have 3 warning issue citations but i don't think it's fair to push someone into the pool without telling them how deep the water is first.

is what you're saying really true?

azskeptic
05-22-2006, 10:59 AM
is what you're saying really true? I personally confirmed with the ECFMG that neither version of SC is recognized currently. You can look at the website of GMC to confirm SC's status in the UK.

john2006
05-22-2006, 05:51 PM
.......................

badshah
07-13-2006, 11:12 PM
good thing i didnt go to this school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAN, i wasted 3 months searching for this
i should have applied other PLACES

Milrinone
07-18-2006, 08:51 AM
good thing i didnt go to this school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAN, i wasted 3 months searching for this
i should have applied other PLACES

they got ECFMG back.....for how long???? who knows....

empathy
12-18-2006, 05:13 PM
Old news -- should it still be tacked up?







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