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SCCMstudents
03-29-2006, 05:22 PM
This is a general preliminary statement from the student body of SCCM:

We would like to thank all of those who have helped guide us through the difficult last few months. Your support and advice were greatly appreciated.

The student body have been kept informed on a daily basis of everything that has been happening with our school's administration, the government of Senegal, GMC, ECFMG. Much of what has been posted on this forum came as a surprise or shocking news to the VMD community, however the events and delays have been expected by the student body.

There is a lot going on that has not yet been commented on publicly, today's injunction is an example of one of many things. As soon as possible, more information will be released.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To whom this may concern,

We are writing to announce the dismissal of Dr. Paul L from the board of directors of St. Christopher’s Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine, Dakar, Senegal. It was announced that the remainder of the board of trustees have serious questions about whether Dr. L has engaged in unethical practices. This change will enable St. Christopher’s to push forward and develop an institution we can all be proud of.

As many are aware, the ECFMG has requested verification from Senegal that the Luton campus of St. Christopher’s is fully recognized and accredited. Although Senegal has always fully supported the Luton campus, this letter has been held back by Senegal due to the allegations against him. The Senegal administration and Ministry of Health does not wish to be involved with someone who has so many unanswered questions surrounding them and wanted some resolution before any support for the Luton campus was reaffirmed. The administration of the Dakar campus of St. Christopher’s is currently auditing each student file to ensure that no other illegal or unethical practices have been employed. Once that has occurred, the ECFMG will be informed that all remaining individuals have the full backing of the Senegal government from February 2000 until the end of this current semester. After that, accreditation of the current Luton campus will be removed and applied to a new campus in England that will be run by a new administrator recently hired by the Dakar campus president.

The charter of St. Christopher’s is owned by the sovereign country of Senegal and not by any one individual. However, the current physical facilities of the Luton campus is owned by Dr. L and he therefore still has the right to do with those facilities as he pleases. Therefore, anything that Dr. L does with the current UK business named St. Christopher’s College of Medicine Lmtd will have no relation whatsoever to the Senegal medical college of the same name. Should he attempt to obtain a new charter to continue operating the physical facilities that he owns, it will have to be considered an entirely new entity that is separate from the current college of medicine.

All of the details regarding the current changes have not been completely ironed out yet, however the Senegalese administration and their newly appointed UK administration are working around the clock to make all the necessary preparations. Both administrations have already held meetings with the ECFMG and some of the state licensing boards. They are trying to reverse previous policies of silence and remain completely transparent to outside official organizations. As we have more info, we will release it in a timely fashion.

smoohead
03-29-2006, 05:29 PM
"We would like to thank all of those who have helped guide us through the difficult last few months. Your support and advice were greatly appreciated.

The student body have been kept informed on a daily basis of everything that has been happening with our school's administration, the government of Senegal, GMC, ECFMG. Much of what has been posted on this forum came as a surprise or shocking news to the VMD community, however the events and delays have been expected by the student body.

There is a lot going on that has not yet been commented on publicly, today's injunction is an example of one of many things. As soon as possible, more information will be released."

angel_fyre
03-29-2006, 05:48 PM
"The student body have been kept informed on a daily basis of everything that has been happening with our school's administration, the government of Senegal, GMC, ECFMG.

Who is informing the student body?..i really hope its not DR..Liar or any of his Admin membres...so if not him who is doing the informing??

CorporateRaider
03-29-2006, 06:25 PM
Dear SCCM Students:



May the all powerful be with you.

smoohead
03-29-2006, 06:42 PM
Rest assured, it wasn't Dr. L... :p This was put together by SC students... stay tuned for something for definitive in the very near future (wow I sound like our former admin right there!)

Picard
03-29-2006, 07:20 PM
Best wishes to all the students. You have a difficult journey ahead. May it all turn out for the best.

P

bts4202
03-29-2006, 08:32 PM
To whom this may concern,

We are writing to announce the dismissal of Dr. Paul L from the board of directors of St. Christopher’s Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine, Dakar, Senegal. It was announced that the remainder of the board of trustees have serious questions about whether Dr. L has engaged in unethical practices. This change will enable St. Christopher’s to push forward and develop an institution we can all be proud of.

As many are aware, the ECFMG has requested verification from Senegal that the Luton campus of St. Christopher’s is fully recognized and accredited. Although Senegal has always fully supported the Luton campus, this letter has been held back by Senegal due to the allegations against him. The Senegal administration and Ministry of Health does not wish to be involved with someone who has so many unanswered questions surrounding them and wanted some resolution before any support for the Luton campus was reaffirmed. The administration of the Dakar campus of St. Christopher’s is currently auditing each student file to ensure that no other illegal or unethical practices have been employed. Once that has occurred, the ECFMG will be informed that all remaining individuals have the full backing of the Senegal government from February 2000 until the end of this current semester. After that, accreditation of the current Luton campus will be removed and applied to a new campus in England that will be run by a new administrator recently hired by the Dakar campus president.

The charter of St. Christopher’s is owned by the sovereign country of Senegal and not by any one individual. However, the current physical facilities of the Luton campus is owned by Dr. L and he therefore still has the right to do with those facilities as he pleases. Therefore, anything that Dr. L does with the current UK business named St. Christopher’s College of Medicine Lmtd will have no relation whatsoever to the Senegal medical college of the same name. Should he attempt to obtain a new charter to continue operating the physical facilities that he owns, it will have to be considered an entirely new entity that is separate from the current college of medicine.

All of the details regarding the current changes have not been completely ironed out yet, however the Senegalese administration and their newly appointed UK administration are working around the clock to make all the necessary preparations. Both administrations have already held meetings with the ECFMG and some of the state licensing boards. They are trying to reverse previous policies of silence and remain completely transparent to outside official organizations. As we have more info, we will release it in a timely fashion.

bts4202
03-29-2006, 08:35 PM
Update: The students of st. Christopher's have issued the aforementioned UK injunction against Dr. L in order to stop him from purchasing another charter and inflicting further damage to our school. This was done with full knowledge of most students and made possible by massive student donations.

Scott1981
03-29-2006, 09:10 PM
well bts, you want transparency?........ then start by getting the numerous top secret SC forums open to the public.

pruritis_ani
03-29-2006, 09:18 PM
So it sounds like they are sticking with Senegal...and this was supposed to be the big, double secret plan?

Issues still remain, and IMHO, it is still looking mighty poor in terms of prognosis.

Questions such as will the GMC and ECFMG miraculously turn around and think the school is ok now? Since the schol is located outside of Senegal, issues still remain about licensure. What about ECFMG certification for the current 4th years? (Have they been in clinicals all along? Hmmm...sounds like they have been in London to me!?)

Pull the plug, give this school a DNR order, please. More of the same crap in the future, from this ever-dodgy school. I think we have had enough.

gazpacho
03-29-2006, 09:25 PM
whether Dr. L has engaged in unethical practices

What are the allegations? Please! Someone! Why is this Dr L sketchy?

maximillian genossa
03-29-2006, 09:33 PM
What accreditation you are talking about?

Didn't the GMC basically put an end to ALL so called squatting school on their soil?

http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp

3. Prospective students in the United Kingdom

Prospective students in the United Kingdom are advised to carefully check that the institution they are planning to study at is one of the 27 UK medical schools. Medical qualifications obtained from any other UK based institution are not recognised for registration with the GMC.










To whom this may concern,

We are writing to announce the dismissal of Dr. Paul L from the board of directors of St. Christopher’s Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine, Dakar, Senegal. It was announced that the remainder of the board of trustees have serious questions about whether Dr. L has engaged in unethical practices. This change will enable St. Christopher’s to push forward and develop an institution we can all be proud of.

As many are aware, the ECFMG has requested verification from Senegal that the Luton campus of St. Christopher’s is fully recognized and accredited. Although Senegal has always fully supported the Luton campus, this letter has been held back by Senegal due to the allegations against him. The Senegal administration and Ministry of Health does not wish to be involved with someone who has so many unanswered questions surrounding them and wanted some resolution before any support for the Luton campus was reaffirmed. The administration of the Dakar campus of St. Christopher’s is currently auditing each student file to ensure that no other illegal or unethical practices have been employed. Once that has occurred, the ECFMG will be informed that all remaining individuals have the full backing of the Senegal government from February 2000 until the end of this current semester. After that, accreditation of the current Luton campus will be removed and applied to a new campus in England that will be run by a new administrator recently hired by the Dakar campus president.

The charter of St. Christopher’s is owned by the sovereign country of Senegal and not by any one individual. However, the current physical facilities of the Luton campus is owned by Dr. L and he therefore still has the right to do with those facilities as he pleases. Therefore, anything that Dr. L does with the current UK business named St. Christopher’s College of Medicine Lmtd will have no relation whatsoever to the Senegal medical college of the same name. Should he attempt to obtain a new charter to continue operating the physical facilities that he owns, it will have to be considered an entirely new entity that is separate from the current college of medicine.

All of the details regarding the current changes have not been completely ironed out yet, however the Senegalese administration and their newly appointed UK administration are working around the clock to make all the necessary preparations. Both administrations have already held meetings with the ECFMG and some of the state licensing boards. They are trying to reverse previous policies of silence and remain completely transparent to outside official organizations. As we have more info, we will release it in a timely fashion.

Picard
03-29-2006, 09:37 PM
bts,

Many on this board, myself included, actually knew about all these from e-mails and PM's from current students.

I think the current strategy is a possible solution (and a pretty good solution if it works) for the current graduating class and for those close to graduation. It will allow the current graduating class to go onto residency. However, it is a very poor and risky solution for those just starting out and those still in basic sciences. I still hold the belief that "squatting" practice in the UK has a very bleak future. And if SC tries to re-invent itself in UK under a new campus/management, it will trigger legislative changes to outlaw "squatting" practice altogether. And we will be back to where we are now in the near future.

And all other concerns I mentioned before about the experiences needed and financial stability of this new administration also need to be thoroughly investigated. What if Mr. L gets away with most of the fortune? Will Senegal gov have the financial means to start and sustain a new operation? Remember they were counting on money from Mr. L. Tuition from a single starting semester is not enough to operate a fully functional school.

Also what about state boards that the new admin has not met with yet? There are 50 boards plus a DC, pueto rico and other territories. How will other state boards view this?

Still lots of questions. And I still believe that remaining in UK is a bad idea in the long run.

P

OLDPRO
03-29-2006, 09:37 PM
What are the allegations? Please! Someone! Why is this Dr L sketchy?

Per the ADMIN here at Value MD the Chairman of St. Chris credentials are not to be discussed in these forums. Sorry

Picard
03-29-2006, 09:39 PM
But he is no longer the chairman of St. Chris.

P

OLDPRO
03-29-2006, 09:44 PM
What accreditation you are talking about?

Didn't the GMC basically put an end to ALL so called squatting school on their soil?

http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp

3. Prospective students in the United Kingdom

Prospective students in the United Kingdom are advised to carefully check that the institution they are planning to study at is one of the 27 UK medical schools. Medical qualifications obtained from any other UK based institution are not recognised for registration with the GMC.

GM heres the rub.....on the other pg the GMC will consider other squatter schools in the UK on a case by case basis. Also there was a misconception that routinely these students would "take resources" from the UK when in fact most if not all the students do nothing but spend money going to school there and do clinicals in the USA not UK, so as far as that goes all the GMC is left with are a very few who may want to practice there from these schools, I never saw a problem like described except for the SENEGAL over site issue.

OLDPRO
03-29-2006, 09:46 PM
But he is no longer the chairman of St. Chris.

P
Sorry ask DOC if he says okay to discuss credentials and such then fine, I will ask him too. I'm not protecting nor taking sides just doing what the boss here says. :!: BTW just asked him.

maximillian genossa
03-29-2006, 09:48 PM
Chartering in Senegal and doing business in Luton is moot, this is what the GMC said about that:

"3. Prospective students in the United Kingdom

Prospective students in the United Kingdom are advised to carefully check that the institution they are planning to study at is one of the 27 UK medical schools. Medical qualifications obtained from any other UK based institution are not recognised for registration with the GMC."

It is cut and clear, it is moot. The only possible way it can work is going to Senegal. How about the ECFMG? Like you said, 50 states DC and P.R. have some rules governing this... you have to attend a school located in the country of charter.

Why can't people try to understand this?







bts,

Many on this board, myself included, actually knew about all these from e-mails and PM's from current students.

I think the current strategy is a possible solution (and a pretty good solution if it works) for the current graduating class and for those close to graduation. It will allow the current graduating class to go onto residency. However, it is a very poor and risky solution for those just starting out and those still in basic sciences. I still hold the belief that "squatting" practice in the UK has a very bleak future. And if SC tries to re-invent itself in UK under a new campus/management, it will trigger legislative changes to outlaw "squatting" practice altogether. And we will be back to where we are now in the near future.

And all other concerns I mentioned before about the experiences needed and financial stability of this new administration also need to be thoroughly investigated. What if Mr. L gets away with most of the fortune? Will Senegal gov have the financial means to start and sustain a new operation? Remember they were counting on money from Mr. L. Tuition from a single starting semester is not enough to operate a fully functional school.

Also what about state boards that the new admin has not met with yet? There are 50 boards plus a DC, pueto rico and other territories. How will other state boards view this?

Still lots of questions. And I still believe that remaining in UK is a bad idea in the long run.

P

Picard
03-29-2006, 09:52 PM
Whud,
Just pulling your legs. I don't really care if we get to discuss Mr. L or not. It's moot now anyways. I just hope he gets what he deserves.

GM,
I think my point is that the ability for "squatters" to even exist in UK as a business may be outlawed. Although GMC has ruled that squatter credentials will not be recognized, they can still exist as private businesses under current UK laws. I think this will change if SC re-invents itself in a new campus in UK.

P

maximillian genossa
03-29-2006, 09:55 PM
Whuds,, where does it say they will consider other squatting schools in the UK on a case by case basis?

This is what I got from their website, the "other" page....Highlighted is the part they basically say....No.



5. Private, UK-based, medical colleges

There are a number of private, UK-based medical colleges (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/how_to_register/registration/uk_based_medical_colleges.asp) that claim that the course of study undertaken substantially or wholly in the UK leads to a Primary Medical Qualification awarded by an overseas University.
Whilst the overseas university may be listed in the WHO directory of medical schools based on its recognition by the country's government, the GMC is not satisfied about the status of the schools' programmes in the UK, specifically the schools' recognition by the government nor is it assured that the schools' are subject to adequate quality assurance arrangements. The overseas universities and their UK base are NOT subject to any quality assurance arrangements by the GMC. In addition, students are not entitled to apply to the student loans company (http://www.slc.co.uk/) for government funding towards the cost of the tuition fees.
The GMC does not register graduates who have been awarded primary medical qualifications in such circumstances nor does it give any entitlement to book or sit the PLAB test.




GM heres the rub.....on the other pg the GMC will consider other squatter schools in the UK on a case by case basis. Also there was a misconception that routinely these students would "take resources" from the UK when in fact most if not all the students do nothing but spend money going to school there and do clinicals in the USA not UK, so as far as that goes all the GMC is left with are a very few who may want to practice there from these schools, I never saw a problem like described except for the SENEGAL over site issue.

OLDPRO
03-29-2006, 10:18 PM
Whuds,, where does it say they will consider other squatting schools in the UK on a case by case basis?

This is what I got from their website, the "other" page....Highlighted is the part they basically say....No.



5. Private, UK-based, medical colleges

There are a number of private, UK-based medical colleges (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/how_to_register/registration/uk_based_medical_colleges.asp) that claim that the course of study undertaken substantially or wholly in the UK leads to a Primary Medical Qualification awarded by an overseas University.
Whilst the overseas university may be listed in the WHO directory of medical schools based on its recognition by the country's government, the GMC is not satisfied about the status of the schools' programmes in the UK, specifically the schools' recognition by the government nor is it assured that the schools' are subject to adequate quality assurance arrangements. The overseas universities and their UK base are NOT subject to any quality assurance arrangements by the GMC. In addition, students are not entitled to apply to the student loans company (http://www.slc.co.uk/) for government funding towards the cost of the tuition fees.
The GMC does not register graduates who have been awarded primary medical qualifications in such circumstances nor does it give any entitlement to book or sit the PLAB test.




Right here Some of these are squatter schools in the UK they are listed by charter but are infact campuses in the UK. you only listed part of the page and it looks like the GMC was unclear about the list, All the schools listed are by charter not the physical location look back on the list from before and some have been left out but these were except the Russian schools in the UK :



3. Primary medical qualifications not accepted by the GMC


The following medical schools are currently listed in the WHO directory based on its recognition by the government of the relevant country. However, the GMC is not satisfied about the status of the schools' programmes in the UK with respect to the schools' recognition by the government nor is it assured that the schools' are subject to adequate quality assurance arrangements. At the present time, the GMC is not registering graduates who hold primary medical qualifications obtained from the medical schools listed below. Moreover, g raduates from these schools are not permitted to make a booking or to take the Professional Linguistic Assessment Board (PLAB) test.
St Christopher's College of Medicine
Dakar, Senegal
Saint Luke School of Medicine
206 Broad Street, Luke Building, 3471 Monrovia, Liberia

Primary medical qualifications obtained from the following medical schools may be acceptable for the purposes of GMC registration. Doctors graduating from these schools and seeking registration are advised to contact the GMC (http://www.gmc-uk.org/about/contacts/) as applications will be dealt with on a case by case basis.
St Petersburg State Medical Academy, Piskarevsky Prospekt 47, St Petersburg 195067
St Petersburg State I.P Pavlov Medical University, Ulica Tolstogo 6/8
St Petersburg 197089
St Petersburg State Pediatric Medical Academy, Ulica Lilovskaja 2
St Petersburg 194100
Grace University School of Medicine, Belize
College of Medicine and Health Sciences, Rodney Bay, Box 2478
Saint Lucia
International University of Health Sciences, P.O Box 1267, Brannigan House, St Kitts and Nevis
American International School of Medicine, P.O. Box 101728, Guyana
Kigezi International School of Medicine, P.O.Box 7, Kabale, Uganda

4. Acceptable Primary Medical Qualifications which are not on the WHO directory of medical schools

There are a number of additional Primary Medical Qualifications (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/how_to_register/registration/additional_primary_medical_qualifications.asp) which are not currently listed on the WHO Directory of medical schools but are regarded as acceptable for the purposes of registration with the GMC.
5. Private, UK-based, medical colleges

There are a number of private, UK-based medical colleges (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/how_to_register/registration/uk_based_medical_colleges.asp) that claim that the course of study undertaken substantially or wholly in the UK leads to a Primary Medical Qualification awarded by an overseas University.
Whilst the overseas university may be listed in the WHO directory of medical schools based on its recognition by the country's government, the GMC is not satisfied about the status of the schools' programmes in the UK, specifically the schools' recognition by the government nor is it assured that the schools' are subject to adequate quality assurance arrangements. The overseas universities and their UK base are NOT subject to any quality assurance arrangements by the GMC. In addition, students are not entitled to apply to the student loans company (http://www.slc.co.uk/) for government funding towards the cost of the tuition fees.
The GMC does not register graduates who have been awarded primary medical qualifications in such circumstances nor does it give any entitlement to book or sit the PLAB test.

AUCMD2006
03-29-2006, 10:24 PM
on paper it sounds good and you guys have guts for going all out on this. i understand why you needed to keep it quiet for a while because of the injunction....

-so now do you admit that king pin was deceitful?
-do you now question credentials?
-do you see what part the cheerleaders played in this
-do you regret funeling all questions and coments from students to the private server?
-maybe after all is done we can settle a few things like the ivy league clinical sites and other lies you guys spread over the years...you know in the spirit of starting over clean?

marconim
03-29-2006, 10:27 PM
Now that everyone on this forum has rejoiced !!!!

What have you all accomplished??????????????? 2 week legal stay in UK by judge?????????????????

What is Senegal's Plan????????????? I repeat what is SENEGAL'S PLAN

I am not a cheerleader for the administration and I will never be, but just remember who held the credits hostage for the last 4 months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what if anything, has been done at the ECFMG to date!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This whole thing stinks real bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So for all you future lawyers don't quit your day jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cardinal
03-29-2006, 10:33 PM
Now that everyone on this forum has rejoiced !!!!
What have you all accomplished??????????????? 2 week legal stay in UK by judge?????????????????
What is Senegal's Plan????????????? I repeat what is SENEGAL'S PLAN
I am not a cheerleader for the administration and I will never be, but just remember who held the credits hostage for the last 4 months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And what if anything, has been done at the ECFMG to date!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This whole thing stinks real bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So for all you future lawyers don't quit your day jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored:

smoohead
03-29-2006, 10:41 PM
Now that everyone on this forum has rejoiced !!!!

What have you all accomplished??????????????? 2 week legal stay in UK by judge?????????????????

What is Senegal's Plan????????????? I repeat what is SENEGAL'S PLAN

I am not a cheerleader for the administration and I will never be, but just remember who held the credits hostage for the last 4 months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what if anything, has been done at the ECFMG to date!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This whole thing stinks real bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So for all you future lawyers don't quit your day jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Simmer down :roll: You'll frigging see when we are allowed to say more.... We're not cheerleaders for admin either and it should be clear by now to anyone with half a brain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

marconim
03-29-2006, 11:06 PM
Simmer down :roll: You'll frigging see when we are allowed to say more.... We're not cheerleaders for admin either and it should be clear by now to anyone with half a brain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Senegalese and the administration (we all know who that is) have been fighting for the millions of dollar which this school generates, for over 4 months and have lied to all about the damn letter which was in transit to the ECFMG(what a joke) To this day, no one has made a statement on what they have planned. The NJ office is clueless, ECFMG is a joke (collector of fees with no guarantees of licensure) and the saviors (the Senegalese) are yet to do anything to inspire confidence that this will ever get resolved. All I can say is at some point the word FRAUD will have to be used.

AUCMD2006
03-29-2006, 11:11 PM
The Senegalese and the administration (we all know who that is) have been fighting for the millions of dollar which this school generates, for over 4 months and have lied to all about the damn letter which was in transit to the ECFMG(what a joke) To this day, no one has made a statement on what they have planned. The NJ office is clueless, ECFMG is a joke (collector of fees with no guarantees of licensure) and the saviors (the Senegalese) are yet to do anything to inspire confidence that this will ever get resolved. All I can say is at some point the word FRAUD will have to be used.


you do realize that the ECFMG is not a credentialing agency right? they are your US based dean's office that is it......they handle paperwork nothing more

this was a public service announcement for newbies who don't know IMED lists, not accredits, and ECFMG stamps papers and does not license

marconim
03-29-2006, 11:14 PM
you do realize that the ECFMG is not a credentialing agency right? they are your US based dean's office that is it......they handle paperwork nothing more

this was a public service announcement for newbies who don't know IMED lists, not accredits, and ECFMG stamps papers and does not license

Collector of fees, I hear you. But they do certify your credits to start your residency!!!

OLDPRO
03-29-2006, 11:30 PM
on paper it sounds good and you guys have guts for going all out on this. i understand why you needed to keep it quiet for a while because of the injunction....

-so now do you admit that king pin was deceitful?
-do you now question credentials?
-do you see what part the cheerleaders played in this
-do you regret funeling all questions and coments from students to the private server?
-maybe after all is done we can settle a few things like the ivy league clinical sites and other lies you guys spread over the years...you know in the spirit of starting over clean?
Okay heard from DOC, answer is sae as before, we can discuss topics but not credentials of the Chairaman/ exchairman of St. Chris.
Keep that in mind please.

Miklos
03-30-2006, 01:40 AM
Per the ADMIN here at Value MD the Chairman of St. Chris credentials are not to be discussed in these forums. Sorry
This policy is fascinating in retrospect, isn't it?

It seems (from the outside anyway) that ethical failings led to the implosion of SC.

In this case, I feel that VMD may have done a disservice to potential SC students.

Lesson to be learned: If someone misrepresents themselves, they are probably highly likely to have other skeletons in their closet as well. Prospective students would do well to investigate the qualifications and background of the leadership of their chosen medical school.

dt
03-30-2006, 01:44 AM
The Senegalese and the administration (we all know who that is) have been fighting for the millions of dollar which this school generates, for over 4 months and have lied to all about the damn letter which was in transit to the ECFMG(what a joke)
...

Just curious how you know it was the Senegalese that held back? Who provided the info? Was it a non-admin person that told the students this?

###
03-30-2006, 01:53 AM
...............

TAFKA
03-30-2006, 02:08 AM
edited to remove text

BabaOriley
03-30-2006, 04:45 AM
--we "cheerleaders" spoke what we believed and what we still believe, that this school had/has potential to be truly great... even at its lowest point (clearly that would be now!)

Hmmmmmmmmmm......

Miklos
03-30-2006, 05:10 AM
Duplicate post, please ignore.

Miklos
03-30-2006, 05:11 AM
-nobody ever claimed that the man wasn't deceitful, we just supported the same school that we're still supporting... in fact, he was like a rogue employee who happened to be the most powerful employee... but in reality, he owns a business (SCCM ltd.) that was contracted to distribute a product (medical education) for someone else (SCCM-IMD, Dakar, Senegal)... he'll no longer be the distributor
I believe that this analogy is flawed. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "king pin" the school's founder? If so, he is not a rogue employee or a "franchisee of Senegalese medical education" (or "distributor").

I understand that you are supporting the "school" (seems to be in your self-interest -- as otherwise, you might be left high and dry) and wish you and the other students well.

However, considering that over the past years the questions that have been raised about the school on this forum have at least partially (if not fully) been proven true, then in my view, rrod's points have merit.

(I will barely mention in passing that the school's defenders not only savaged those on this forum who raised questions, but may well have mislead potential students. I do not think that you can simply blame it on one individual and separate yourself from his actions.)


-regarding his credentials: if he graduated from med school, he's a doctor
The Five Live report allleges otherwise. How accurate has the remainder of the BBC reporting been?


-we "cheerleaders" spoke what we believed and what we still believe, that this school had/has potential to be truly great... even at its lowest point (clearly that would be now!) it still turned out remarkably capable students who scored well on the steps and matched into competitive programs (not to mention letting us study in London)
At this point, I think that very few independent observers would feel this way, especially as the school seems to be in the process of imploding. As to whether the pieces will be picked up is another matter. Even if they are, picard (among others) has raised additional important questions regarding future licensure.


P.S. NONE of what i wrote above is new info... it's the same old story we've been telling all along...
I'd say that the defense of SC has now shifted significantly. Let me ask you a question:

Given the present situation, would you recommend that a potential student enroll now?

azskeptic
03-30-2006, 05:55 AM
I can tell you that state medical boards, ECFMG, GMC, and other licensing boards worldwide are confused by it all. That the Shayhk's school is now getting involved isn't going to change that. But all will make sense as time goes on I suppose. The owner of SC indeed can do what he wants with his school but it would appear it is all moot anyway. the students are left in a lurch, as predicted on vmd for several years, and how will all recover?

I think the international medical community could do a favor to the SC students by perhaps letting them know openly which schools will take students and which ones won't,not recognizing the education. Indeed SC students need information and help now,not secrecy.

CorporateRaider
03-30-2006, 08:06 AM
BTS - et al.:

Congrats! It seems to me, you have taken a leadership role along with the fine young doctor ***** and probably many others!
My motto : "LEAD, FOLLOW or get the HELL OUTTA' THE WAY." Now that you are leading, keep the troops in line, remember to bow before the ALMIGHTY and all's well that end's well.
For the forum (an opinion):
I have no idea what the true owners of the school can offer the students.
Note: I consider the Senegalese the true owners, since it is their country and their government that extended the charter. Unless mister "L" was born in Senegal?
Hopefully the Senegalese hold the financial resources to "save" the school, so to speak. So here is my X-MAS wish list:

1. Do the Senegalese have the financials to save the school? If they do or if they can borrow it , that is a major coup.
2. What are the real boundries of the GMC ruling? If the Senegalese step in, will the GMC allow them to operate/register under some type of "squatter" status? (It appears that the GMC has shut that door, but there is allot of information we simple mortals do not have). Have the students been able to meet with the GMC to obtain this information specifically ? (obtain it in writing, guys)
3. Allot of you upperclassmen seem to be on the way out, do you have a lower level of student body leaders you are grooming to take over your positions?
4. Are there Board Members that have sided with the students/Senegalese or is everyone loyal to masta' "L"?

If these questions are too heavy, feel free to P.M. me.

pruritis_ani
03-30-2006, 09:39 AM
-nobody ever claimed that the man wasn't deceitful, we just supported the same school that we're still supporting... in fact, he was like a rogue employee who happened to be the most powerful employee... but in reality, he owns a business (SCCM ltd.) that was contracted to distribute a product (medical education) for someone else (SCCM-IMD, Dakar, Senegal)... he'll no longer be the distributor
-regarding his credentials: if he graduated from med school, he's a doctor
-we "cheerleaders" spoke what we believed and what we still believe, that this school had/has potential to be truly great... even at its lowest point (clearly that would be now!) it still turned out remarkably capable students who scored well on the steps and matched into competitive programs (not to mention letting us study in London)
-the private forum helped us to get organized for our present undertaking... however, much of what is discussed there pertains to medical education, usmle prep, clinical clerkships, etc... i think students at every school should have such a fine support system as we have
-i am aware of students who have rotated at ivy league sites, however it was never claimed that the majority of our students rotate at these places... as for where we do rotate, some of those sites are shared with carib schools, while others are exclusively with american medical students... it was not a lie that we have excellent clinical placements, it was just blown out of proportion by people who felt that their schools also have excellent clinical placements and who resented the fact that we acknowledge that ours are good and that some of them are exclusively ours

P.S. NONE of what i wrote above is new info... it's the same old story we've been telling all along...

-there were lots and lots of claims about what a wonderful guy L was, and how people were crazy for questioning him. It was a far cry from merely supporting his school.
-as far as i know, he didn't graduate med school. I never saw a school he claimed to graduate from, and he certainly wouldn't provide that information.
-you cheerleaders completely underestimated and ignored the RISKS of the school while only talking about what you think is "great". And, of the schools "greatness" only the england location is not met and exceeded by other schools. Isn't it ironic that the only special thing about the school (england location) may be it's doom?
-I don't know anything about the Ivy league rotations, but I do recall lots of reading about how wonderful the SC sites were, and how they exceeded all of the other schools sites. SC students were constantly claiming they had BETTER sites (which is clearly not the case), which led to cries of **, which again were met with outright hostility. It seems that now all of the sudden these secret sites are equivilent, and not better. Hmm. Nothing like the failure of the school to bring about proper perspective and a bit of humility.

The problem in the past was the over selling of the school. Nobody got on here and said St. Chris is about the same as the carib schools. It was always ** about how it was so much better. Luton was better, the profs are better, the clinicals are better, the students are better. And then you would hide behind the "secrecy clause", so none of this supposed superiority could be discussed.

Now all is crumbling, and you expect us to believe that you were not cheerleaders, merely thought your school was good. Whatever. This coming from a guy who made some pretty outrageous claims about his own reasons for transfering, which appear to be ** based on what your old classmates have to say...

Whatever. Enjoy your "new" school. Maybe you will at least wrangle an ECFMG certificate and a degree good in a few states. It shocks me that a person as obviously intelligent as you would go through all of this. At the end of it all, your "extremely competetive" residency appointment is at risk, you likely will be limited to where you can work, and all of your predictions of greatness for this school were a bit off.

It may be time to re think your perspective on this school and what it offers to people.

PathOne
03-30-2006, 09:54 AM
Unfortunately, I still fail to see why Senegal would want to spend time, energy and scarce financial resources on running a school which is designed to provide physicians for the US, the UK and other developed world countries.

Obviously, Senegal is in dire need of more physicians. According to the latest WHO data, there's 7.5 docs per 100,000 inhabitants in Senegal. Compare that to the US (549 per 100,000), the UK (166) or African countries like South Africa (69) or Egypt (244).

Based on the data above, I just fail to see that Senegal has the experience or the desire to effectively manage a medical school thousands of miles away. Of course, the country can see St. Chris as a source of hard currency income. But even if Senegal actually want to go ahead with this, legal and squatter issues aside, I simply fail to see how one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in the world can be an effective operator of a for-profit medical school in the UK, even if they wanted to.

BTW: University El Hadj Ibrahima Niasse has, according to its website, been promoting a English-language USMLE-based medical program. How many students are enrolled in this program in Senegal? And what's the succes of the program in terms of securing rotations and/or residencies in the US (perhaps the latter is zero, because it's not quite clear to me if the Senegalese program has existed since 2000 or 2003).

While I agree that the option of Senegal taking over the school completely seems to be the only viable way forward, I just can't see it happening.

marconim
03-30-2006, 10:31 AM
Just curious how you know it was the Senegalese that held back? Who provided the info? Was it a non-admin person that told the students this?

Breaking news coming very soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

john2006
03-30-2006, 10:42 AM
................

azskeptic
03-30-2006, 10:51 AM
For those who don't seem to understand the UK isn't exactly inviting offshore schools to squat there. But why should they? We'll arrest for trying the same in the US or Canada or a long list of other places. I support Senegal opening a real school for Americans in Senegal; this would be a good gesture on their part and the students could transfer immediately and help the millions of poor people there who lack medical care.

PathOne
03-30-2006, 11:38 AM
Ahh, we wait in anticipation as the story unfolds..... Or folds...

PathOne
03-30-2006, 11:41 AM
Yes, that would indeed be a nice gesture. However, Kigezi tried that approach and failed. Also, there's the small issue of language, Senegal being francophone, not to mention one of the more unstable political situations, even for Africa. The Marines sure wouldn't rescue St. Chris students in Dakar, but perhaps the Legion Etranger (Foreign Legion) would?

AUCMD2006
03-30-2006, 11:41 AM
Collector of fees, I hear you. But they do certify your credits to start your residency!!!

they don't really certify the credits as valid in all states otherwise you could just use your ecfmg cert for cali etc.

i see the ECFMG certification more as a statement saying you graduated and they have copies of all your transcripts in the same sense as a dean's office would have your academic record on file and by sending any of it sealed they "certify" that it is yours but they don't validate your credentials or mandate that they be accepted.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 11:54 AM
These schools, from the wbpage you mentioned...

St Petersburg State Medical Academy, Piskarevsky Prospekt 47, St Petersburg 195067
St Petersburg State I.P Pavlov Medical University, Ulica Tolstogo 6/8
St Petersburg 197089
St Petersburg State Pediatric Medical Academy, Ulica Lilovskaja 2
St Petersburg 194100
Grace University School of Medicine, Belize
College of Medicine and Health Sciences, Rodney Bay, Box 2478
Saint Lucia
International University of Health Sciences, P.O Box 1267, Brannigan House, St Kitts and Nevis
American International School of Medicine, P.O. Box 101728, Guyana
Kigezi International School of Medicine, P.O.Box 7, Kabale, Uganda

Are not squatting in the UK.

What else you want to see beyond what is written?







Right here Some of these are squatter schools in the UK they are listed by charter but are infact campuses in the UK. you only listed part of the page and it looks like the GMC was unclear about the list, All the schools listed are by charter not the physical location look back on the list from before and some have been left out but these were except the Russian schools in the UK :

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 11:59 AM
These schools, from the wbpage you mentioned...

St Petersburg State Medical Academy, Piskarevsky Prospekt 47, St Petersburg 195067
St Petersburg State I.P Pavlov Medical University, Ulica Tolstogo 6/8
St Petersburg 197089
St Petersburg State Pediatric Medical Academy, Ulica Lilovskaja 2
St Petersburg 194100
Grace University School of Medicine, Belize
College of Medicine and Health Sciences, Rodney Bay, Box 2478
Saint Lucia
International University of Health Sciences, P.O Box 1267, Brannigan House, St Kitts and Nevis
American International School of Medicine, P.O. Box 101728, Guyana
Kigezi International School of Medicine, P.O.Box 7, Kabale, Uganda

Are not squatting in the UK.

What else you want to see beyond what is written?

You didn't read what I posted, on the old web site by the GMC they admitted to those schools as having campuses in the UK. They did I knew about them, they only had a few students. Heck the SC mention says Senegal not UK.

Grace University School of Medicine, Belize
College of Medicine and Health Sciences, Rodney Bay, Box 2478
Saint Lucia
International University of Health Sciences, P.O Box 1267, Brannigan House, St Kitts and Nevis
American International School of Medicine, P.O. Box 101728, Guyana
Kigezi International School of Medicine, P.O.Box 7, Kabale, Uganda

All the above schools have or had sattilite campuses per the GMC in the UK


Look I'm tired of this, if the GMC allows or doesn't allow I don't care it's up to them but The GMC is at a problem here becuase there is no law to back this up yet and the UK is a country of law.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 12:04 PM
Oh Christ! you just said it, the old website. Read carefully the new ruling, it is cut and clear, they will not grant registration to anyone holding a degree in this fashion. It is in black and white, read the whole thing from them.

I don't see that the GMC is at a problem there either, their mission is to regulate the practicve of who get to be a registered and who does not. I think the problem is people reading and interpreting something that is not even there. If you would not care you would not be replying so much. Don't you?

What problem do you have understanding their ruling?





You didn't read what I posted, on the old web site by the GMC they admitted to those schools as having campuses in the UK. They did I knew about them, they only had a few students. Heck the SC mention says Senegal not UK.

Grace University School of Medicine, Belize
College of Medicine and Health Sciences, Rodney Bay, Box 2478
Saint Lucia
International University of Health Sciences, P.O Box 1267, Brannigan House, St Kitts and Nevis
American International School of Medicine, P.O. Box 101728, Guyana
Kigezi International School of Medicine, P.O.Box 7, Kabale, Uganda

All the above schools have or had sattilite campuses per the GMC in the UK


Look I'm tired of this, if the GMC allows or doesn't allow I don't care it's up to them but The GMC is at a problem here becuase there is no law to back this up yet and the UK is a country of law.

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 12:09 PM
Oh Christ! you just said it, the old website. Read carefully the new ruling, it is cut and clear, they will not grant registration to anyone holding a degree in this fashion. It is in black and white, read the whole thing from them.

What problem do you have understanding that?

GM no need to get in a tissy! LOL the old web site listed the schools

the new website lists the same schools.

Why do you care so much? WHy fight? Why do you think you are always right? I was pointing out they accept these questionable schools, the GMC made an effort to say that and then post a blanket statement.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 12:13 PM
Because they explicitly said they won't grant registration to anyone receiving credentials in this fashion, as recently as last week and you are trying to tell me they left the door open using the OLD webpage as reference when their new decision renders anything else moot. Simple dude.

If you want to argue, argue with the correct facts and don't mislead people. It is not a matter of who has to be right or wrong, it is a matter of bringing on the table current facts. And you are not doing that.









GM no need to get in a tissy! LOL the old web site listed the schools

the new website lists the same schools.

Why do you care so much? WHy fight? Why do you think you are always right? I was pointing out they accept these questionable schools, the GMC made an effort to say that and then post a blanket statement.

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 12:17 PM
Oh Christ! you just said it, the old website. Read carefully the new ruling, it is cut and clear, they will not grant registration to anyone holding a degree in this fashion. It is in black and white, read the whole thing from them.

I don't see that the GMC is at a problem there either, their mission is to regulate the practicve of who get to be a registered and who does not. I think the problem is people reading and interpreting something that is not even there. If you would not care you would not be replying so much. Don't you?

What problem do you have understanding their ruling?

for you, uh judge please accept this into evidence the links to UK sattilite campuses:

from the GMC web site itself this year:





(* Correct as at 3 November 2005)
European College of Medicine, London
We are currently investigating the European College of Medicine's previously listed affiliations to universities in Russia. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.

Please note that GMC does not accept degrees awarded by the College's previous affiliation with the St Luke's School of Medicine in Liberia. The WHO has also confirmed that this school will be removed from their listing.


Grace University School of Medicine, London
This institution was previously affiliated to Grace University School of Medicine in Belize and the College of Medicine and Health Sciences in Saint Lucia. It is awaiting accreditation from a new host country. We currently do not accept degrees awarded by this institution as it is unclear who is awarding them.


London College of Medicine, London
London School of Medicine, London
London Medical School, London
The parent institution appears to have changed its name several times. It was previously affiliated to the International University of Health Sciences in St. Kitts and Nevis. We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the College of Medicine and Health Sciences in St Lucia. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.


School of Health and Neural Sciences, Nottingham
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the College of Medicine and Health Sciences in St Lucia. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.


Medical College London, Montserrat
This institution currently awards degrees from the University of Science, Arts and Technology, Montserrat, British West Indies which is not WHO listed. We do not accept its degrees for the purpose of registration.


American International School of Medicine, UK satellite campus
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the American International School of Medicine in Guyana. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.


St. Christopher's College of Medicine, Luton
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the St Christopher ‘s College of Medicine in Senegal. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us ([email protected]) for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution.


If you read it it lists the same schools whose degrees they may accept on a case by case basis. Thats where I get this info from, did the GMC just make it up?

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 12:21 PM
Because they explicitly said they won't grant registration to anyone receiving credentials in this fashion, as recently as last week and you are trying to tell me they left the door open using the OLD webpage as reference when their new decision renders anything else moot. Simple dude.

If you want to argue, argue with the correct facts and don't mislead people. It is not a matter of who has to be right or wrong, it is a matter of bringing on the table current facts. And you are not doing that.

Nope the current page left off info and is missleading please refer to my previous post, I think even AZ will agree there needs to be clarification on this.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 12:23 PM
November 5, 2005, that was overturned last week with the new decision and policies. What other language you want this spelled out? I highlighted at the very end what you are denying so much. Read it carefully, it's over dude, over.

Bring me something better than an old reference when all the NEW reference overturned what you are so desperately trying to revive.

I am done. Next please!

United Kingdom Medical Schools

This factsheet provides information for students, doctors and employers about studying at UK Medical Schools. All factsheets on the GMC website are for guidance only; they do not carry legal force. The information they contain will change from time to time and you will always be able to find the current version on our website.
This factsheet was most recently updated in February 2006.
Contents

Studying medicine at undergraduate level (http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp#1)
UK medical schools awarding acceptable UK medical degrees (http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp#2)
Prospective students in the United Kingdom (http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp#3)
[/URL]1. Studying medicine at undergraduate level

The United Kingdom has a long tradition of high quality and innovative undergraduate medical education. To help prospective students reach an informed choice about where they study this factsheet provides some basic information about UK medical schools. Please note that the GMC is not able to recommend particular schools or discuss the content of courses; students will need to raise these questions directly with the medical schools concerned.
[URL="http://www.valuemd.com/"] (http://www.valuemd.com/)2. UK medical schools awarding acceptable medical degrees

There are 27 UK medical schools (http://www.chms.ac.uk/schools/index.htm) that are recognised by the GMC. The medical education delivered at these medical schools complies with the curriculum set by the GMC (and contained in Tomorrow's doctors). Additionally the medical education undertaken at these medical schools is quality assured by the General Medical Council. We have oversight of the curriculum and we set and monitor standards in basic medical education. This covers both undergraduate education and, more recently, the first year of foundation programme training. A medical degree from one of these medical schools, subject to our other registration requirements, is recognised for the purposes of registration with the GMC.
The 27 UK medical schools, includes four new publicly funded medical schools that have been established and are currently teaching their first cohorts of students. The schools are working closely with the GMC and subject to a satisfactory final report from the GMC, will be able to award UK degrees when their first students are ready to graduate.
These medical schools are:
Brighton and Sussex Medical School
Peninsula Medical School
Hull York Medical School
University of East Anglia
3. Prospective students in the United Kingdom

Prospective students in the United Kingdom are advised to carefully check that the institution they are planning to study at is one of the 27 UK medical schools. Medical qualifications obtained from any other UK based institution are not recognised for registration with the GMC.






for you, uh judge please accept this into evidence the links to UK sattilite campuses:

from the GMC web site itself this year:

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 12:29 PM
November 5, 2005, that was overturned last week with the new decision and policies. What other language you want this spelled out? I highlighted at the very end what you are denying so much. Read it carefully, it's over dude, over.

Bring me something better than an old reference when all the NEW reference overturned what you are so desperately trying to revive.

I am done. Next please!

United Kingdom Medical Schools

This factsheet provides information for students, doctors and employers about studying at UK Medical Schools. All factsheets on the GMC website are for guidance only; they do not carry legal force. The information they contain will change from time to time and you will always be able to find the current version on our website.
This factsheet was most recently updated in February 2006.
Contents

Studying medicine at undergraduate level (http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp#1)
UK medical schools awarding acceptable UK medical degrees (http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp#2)
Prospective students in the United Kingdom (http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp#3)1. Studying medicine at undergraduate level

The United Kingdom has a long tradition of high quality and innovative undergraduate medical education. To help prospective students reach an informed choice about where they study this factsheet provides some basic information about UK medical schools. Please note that the GMC is not able to recommend particular schools or discuss the content of courses; students will need to raise these questions directly with the medical schools concerned.
2. UK medical schools awarding acceptable medical degrees

There are 27 UK medical schools (http://www.chms.ac.uk/schools/index.htm) that are recognised by the GMC. The medical education delivered at these medical schools complies with the curriculum set by the GMC (and contained in Tomorrow's doctors). Additionally the medical education undertaken at these medical schools is quality assured by the General Medical Council. We have oversight of the curriculum and we set and monitor standards in basic medical education. This covers both undergraduate education and, more recently, the first year of foundation programme training. A medical degree from one of these medical schools, subject to our other registration requirements, is recognised for the purposes of registration with the GMC.
The 27 UK medical schools, includes four new publicly funded medical schools that have been established and are currently teaching their first cohorts of students. The schools are working closely with the GMC and subject to a satisfactory final report from the GMC, will be able to award UK degrees when their first students are ready to graduate.
These medical schools are:
Brighton and Sussex Medical School
Peninsula Medical School
Hull York Medical School
University of East Anglia
3. Prospective students in the United Kingdom

Prospective students in the United Kingdom are advised to carefully check that the institution they are planning to study at is one of the 27 UK medical schools. Medical qualifications obtained from any other UK based institution are not recognised for registration with the GMC. \

Okay I graduate from One of the considered schools and the degree does not say from where UK or the charter country then where are we?

Becuase the degrees just say the school, the school will say country of charter and the country will say yes, I think you just want to give me a hard time. I think you do not care that the GMC is still not doing the right things and is being unclear and missleading. You just want to argue you are right. Past postings are important and relavent to an aurguement for clarification, I proved they may be talking about satillite campuses or not, the schools should not just be listed, if the satiilite campus is not included then it should say so...............that is missleading not me.

Truth my man not lawer crap. Too many have already been hurt by such unclarified statements. (BTW YOU REPOST ONLY WHAT SUPPORTS YOU AND NOT THE PAGE WHERE THE SCHOOLS ARE LISTED) I need to go and study so you'll get the last word I t really doesn't matter any way.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 12:34 PM
The truth according to you, not the current facts. I go by what is written and factual at THIS PRESENT TIME. The current ruling is in, they stated very clear their postion on squatting schools they won't register them, very simple. Past postings are irrelevant when the new policy has been written out and supercedes any past rulings or temporary bans. Very simple factual stuff.

Bring me some fresh unadulterated smack. So far, strike 3, you are out.







\

Okay I graduate from One of the considered schools and the degree does not say from where UK or the charter country then where are we?

Becuase the degrees just say the school, the school will say country of charter and the country will say yes, I think you just want to give me a hard time. I think you do not care that the GMC is still not doing the right things and is being unclear and missleading. You just want to argue you are right. Past postings are important and relavent to an aurguement for clarification, I proved they may be talking about satillite campuses or not, the schools should not just be listed, if the satiilite campus is not included then it should say so...............that is missleading not me.

Truth my man not lawer crap.

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 12:41 PM
These schools, from the wbpage you mentioned...

St Petersburg State Medical Academy, Piskarevsky Prospekt 47, St Petersburg 195067
St Petersburg State I.P Pavlov Medical University, Ulica Tolstogo 6/8
St Petersburg 197089
St Petersburg State Pediatric Medical Academy, Ulica Lilovskaja 2
St Petersburg 194100
Grace University School of Medicine, Belize
College of Medicine and Health Sciences, Rodney Bay, Box 2478
Saint Lucia
International University of Health Sciences, P.O Box 1267, Brannigan House, St Kitts and Nevis
American International School of Medicine, P.O. Box 101728, Guyana
Kigezi International School of Medicine, P.O.Box 7, Kabale, Uganda

Are not squatting in the UK.

What else you want to see beyond what is written?

I have proven they have Squatter campuses thats the point you miss

So GM lets get this straight, these schools who have sattilite campuses in the UK listed on the GMC web site as being schools that they will consider on a case by case basis, are in fact not considered on a case by case basis because on the same web page a blanket statement you post over and over again says they do not accept degrees from the "the private medical schools" in the UK?

What????? Seems like you read one statement and say the previous does not apply, I give evidence and you say it's not but the evidence clearly states these schools on both the previous web page and the new one.

Why do you want to insult me so much? I'm saying that the UK needs to just not accept all of them and end this, instead they have a loop hole here.

marconim
03-30-2006, 12:51 PM
they don't really certify the credits as valid in all states otherwise you could just use your ecfmg cert for cali etc.

i see the ECFMG certification more as a statement saying you graduated and they have copies of all your transcripts in the same sense as a dean's office would have your academic record on file and by sending any of it sealed they "certify" that it is yours but they don't validate your credentials or mandate that they be accepted.

SEMANTICS.

No stamp, no residency.

PathOne
03-30-2006, 12:56 PM
No ECFMG certification = no residency = no license anywhere in the US.
ECFMG certification = residency, if allowed by state licensing board. License granted by individual state licensing board.

SO, without ECFMG certification, you are nowhere. With ECFMG certification, you're over the first hurdle. THEN you need to secure a residency, pass your boards and THEN the individual states will determine if they want to license you or not.

rrod is right when he says that ECFMG mainly functions as a Dean's office for IMG's.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 01:03 PM
Medical qualifications obtained from any other UK based institution are not recognised for registration with the GMC.

Go get yourself a degree from an squatting shool in the UK under the new rules and ask for registration and see what happens.

I understand your binge, you used to defend SC , realized that they were lying to you and now decided to change teams, and for the sake of political correctness want to defend something that is cut and clear and you deem the GMC to be the bad folks of the movie, the bad cowboys, the guys dressed in black because they don't suit your beliefs. I understand that.









I have proven they have Squatter campuses thats the point you miss

So GM lets get this straight, these schools who have sattilite campuses in the UK listed on the GMC web site as being schools that they will consider on a case by case basis, are in fact not considered on a case by case basis because on the same web page a blanket statement you post over and over again says they do not accept degrees from the "the private medical schools" in the UK?

What????? Seems like you read one statement and say the previous does not apply, I give evidence and you say it's not but the evidence clearly states these schools on both the previous web page and the new one.

Why do you want to insult me so much? I'm saying that the UK needs to just not accept all of them and end this, instead they have a loop hole here.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 01:07 PM
Compare to this:

Highway 699 used to be a 75 mph road. The governement decided to reduce the speed limit to 65 mph. They change all the signs, etc.

One day you are traveling doing 75 mph, a cop, Drew Skidmore caught you, pulls you over and writes you a ticket. Your argument is..."well , since it used to be a 75 mph road I was not speeding under the old speed zone"

P.S. Thanks to your arguments I managed to increase my posting from 600 to 620 in just one day! Thanks!

azskeptic
03-30-2006, 01:11 PM
GM no need to get in a tissy! LOL the old web site listed the schools

the new website lists the same schools.

Why do you care so much? WHy fight? Why do you think you are always right? I was pointing out they accept these questionable schools, the GMC made an effort to say that and then post a blanket statement.

You know, what students need to do is to learn from all this. The lessons are simple and yet complex:

1. Go to a school that is properly chartered in the country where it is claiming to teach students,including locals.
2. Don't listen to people who tell you rumors that never seem to happen.
3. Profit motive isn't always the best motive when it comes to education.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 01:14 PM
Did the GMC left any doors open to squatting schools? or all the current stuff I have quoted from them I just made it up after a long night ?




You know, what students need to do is to learn from all this. The lessons are simple and yet complex:

1. Go to a school that is properly chartered in the country where it is claiming to teach students,including locals.
2. Don't listen to people who tell you rumors that never seem to happen.
3. Profit motive isn't always the best motive when it comes to education.

marconim
03-30-2006, 01:17 PM
Compare to this:

Highway 699 used to be a 75 mph road. The governement decided to reduce the speed limit to 65 mph. They change all the signs, etc.

One day you are traveling doing 75 mph, a cop, Drew Skidmore caught you, pulls you over and writes you a ticket. Your argument is..."well , since it used to be a 75 mph road I was not speeding under the old speed zone"

P.S. Thanks to your arguments I managed to increase my posting from 600 to 620 in just one day! Thanks!


I have a question? Is it true, that the reason GMC has band SC is that the senegalese gov't have yet to recognize the Luton campus. YES or NO
If no why?
If yes, what happens if they change charter to another country that recognizes Luton?????????

Please no ** and get to the point,LOL
Thanks

marconim
03-30-2006, 02:01 PM
I have a question? Is it true, that the reason GMC has band SC is that the senegalese gov't have yet to recognize the Luton campus. YES or NO
If no why?
If yes, what happens if they change charter to another country that recognizes Luton?????????

Please no ** and get to the point,LOL

Thanks



Amazing???
Can direct questions be answered on this forum?
No one here knows?

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 02:38 PM
The explanation they give is that the GMC is not satisfied about the status of the schools' programmes in the UK with respect to the schools' recognition by the government nor is it assured that the schools' are subject to adequate quality assurance arrangements. If it is because Senegal has yet to recognize the Luton campus or not, is not answered. Speculative at this point since they use the term "at this time".

Concerning the Luton campus, I do not see that happening if the GMC sticks to its policy of not recognizing any degrees earned in this fashion. St. Chris Luton is mentioned.
Private UK based medical colleges

The following schools claim that the course of study undertaken substantially or wholly in the UK leads to a Primary Medical Qualification awarded by an overseas University. The GMC does not register graduates who have been awarded primary medical qualifications in such circumstances nor does it give any entitlement to book or sit the PLAB test.
The list below contains institutions that we are currently aware of - it may not be exhaustive. Therefore the GMC accepts no liability for the reliance placed on these institutions or for any action or decision taken.
European College of Medicine, London (ECM)
Grace University School of Medicine, London
[/URL]London College of Medicine
(http://www.londonmedicalschool.org/)London School of Medicine
[URL="http://www.londonmedicalschool.org/"]London Medical School
School of Health and Neural Sciences, Nottingham
American International School of Medicine, UK satellite campus
St. Christopher's College of Medicine, Luton
Kigezi International School of Medicine, Cambridge
Medical College London, Montserrat

marconim
03-30-2006, 02:52 PM
The explanation they give is that the GMC is not satisfied about the status of the schools' programmes in the UK with respect to the schools' recognition by the government nor is it assured that the schools' are subject to adequate quality assurance arrangements. If it is because Senegal has yet to recognize the Luton campus or not, is not answered. Speculative at this point since they use the term "at this time".

Concerning the Luton campus, I do not see that happening if the GMC sticks to its policy of not recognizing any degrees earned in this fashion. St. Chris Luton is mentioned.
Private UK based medical colleges

The following schools claim that the course of study undertaken substantially or wholly in the UK leads to a Primary Medical Qualification awarded by an overseas University. The GMC does not register graduates who have been awarded primary medical qualifications in such circumstances nor does it give any entitlement to book or sit the PLAB test.
The list below contains institutions that we are currently aware of - it may not be exhaustive. Therefore the GMC accepts no liability for the reliance placed on these institutions or for any action or decision taken.
European College of Medicine, London (ECM)
Grace University School of Medicine, London
London College of Medicine
London School of Medicine
London Medical School
School of Health and Neural Sciences, Nottingham
American International School of Medicine, UK satellite campus
St. Christopher's College of Medicine, Luton
Kigezi International School of Medicine, Cambridge
Medical College London, Montserrat

Thanks G M for response.

azskeptic
03-30-2006, 03:36 PM
I think I will have 5 men and dress them in robes (since that is who students want to believe) and have them pass out a sheet that reads:

1. This is it.
2. There are no hidden meanings.
3. People who go to schools that aren't teaching the basic sciences in their own countries are probably not going to get licensed in the UK. (if you want to risk $200-400,000 go ahead and we'll see what we are thinking in the future).
4. If another school with a charter 'buys' St. Chris if you don't move to that school you are foolish. We don't want you as a squatter, pure and simple.
5. Beware---not everyone in a robe can be trusted. When I am not passing out pamphlets for the Eggman I am actually a used car salesmen.
The End

####################################


Did the GMC left any doors open to squatting schools? or all the current stuff I have quoted from them I just made it up after a long night ?

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 04:42 PM
Medical qualifications obtained from any other UK based institution are not recognised for registration with the GMC.

Go get yourself a degree from an squatting shool in the UK under the new rules and ask for registration and see what happens.

I understand your binge, you used to defend SC , realized that they were lying to you and now decided to change teams, and for the sake of political correctness want to defend something that is cut and clear and you deem the GMC to be the bad folks of the movie, the bad cowboys, the guys dressed in black because they don't suit your beliefs. I understand that.
It's so funny that posters on the SC forum have to be on one side or the other, I never defended the school nor will I "trash it now" I ask a question, or I post what I understand and certain posters go nuts for some reason? In a debate you are supposed to convince the other party your belief is valid, not insult them all the time.

Twisting it into a defense or a trash? WOW I think the GMC does have some responsability to be accountable for what they have done. They approved the darn school twice before, what's the exscuse? No proper investigation before? Well Duh............. Yea I think they should be put on the burner here they are not smelling like roses. If the GMC thought there was a problem befpre well they needed to do something then not wait till the media did a story! I do not blame them for me or other students who have gone there it was our choice, but many on here want us to listen to a few faceless posters who seem to have chips on thier shoulders, la dee da da......... Yea hind sight is wonderful, yea I'm glad I transferred before all of this. But to keep at people and kicking them to up your post count WOW what a motive, to have a debate is fine, but you do not have to insult people.


As far as a binge? I waited for an outcome then I would post some stuff, well it happened. I didn't need to comment till then.


Good luck.

john2006
03-30-2006, 05:01 PM
..........................

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 05:11 PM
are there any medical schools running anywhere in the world that operate outside the country of charter? i tried to look couldnt find any..dose somone else know?

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 05:24 PM
For the last time to GM and anyone else, yes I posted positive about the school last year, but there was reason to. That was not in such as a defense as to bring balance and even at times the posters on the other side agreed there seemed to be some good things happing at the school, thats what attracted some to it. There were also some negative things that I came to see and finaly accept, I had my own problems not related to these hugh global problems but hind sight has lead me to believe it was part of it.

So here I am, there are many people I liked and some care about who are hurt by this. I couldn't be silent any more after the negative GMC decision.
Then Terri pulled out. ECFMG will probaly be next. DR. B is right about one thing, as a mod I could be silent which may or may not show support to the school, or come out and post some things that may seem negative, but truth is it is just posting that the school is not one to go to now. there is little positive in what has happened. The GMC may never accept a degree from this school or a future one, the USA may come to join it. As hard as it is that is what is facing the students and I am sorry.

Never in my wildest dreams did Senegal not backing the school come into play and that so far is what has happened. So I was lied to and all the people I know at the school was lied to, a very hard thing to get over for us, for you few who can't wait to log on and say "I told you so" and "you deserve this" need rethink how you look to the world, who wants a compassionate MD to take care of them. To these posters no one needs to say they are sorry, it's the students of SC who are owed an appology from the ADMIN who couldn't even have the charter proper.

marconim
03-30-2006, 05:36 PM
For the last time to GM and anyone else, yes I posted positive about the school last year, but there was reason to. That was not in such as a defense as to bring balance and even at times the posters on the other side agreed there seemed to be some good things happing at the school, thats what attracted some to it. There were also some negative things that I came to see and finaly accept, I had my own problems not related to these hugh global problems but hind sight has lead me to believe it was part of it.

So here I am, there are many people I liked and some care about who are hurt by this. I couldn't be silent any more after the negative GMC decision.
Then Terri pulled out. ECFMG will probaly be next. DR. B is right about one thing, as a mod I could be silent which may or may not show support to the school, or come out and post some things that may seem negative, but truth is it is just posting that the school is not one to go to now. there is little positive in what has happened. The GMC may never accept a degree from this school or a future one, the USA may come to join it. As hard as it is that is what is facing the students and I am sorry.

Whuds you make some very good points,
all I can add is my british friend (sc student) was told by the GMC that if he transfered to a GMC recognized school he would have no issues. Mind you, he would still have 2 yr with SC on his transcript. So i must commend you on your info. Bottom line SC was accredited by the GMC in 2003-2004 and no one can dispute this. I hear what your saying Whuds and this is the sad reality why many went to SC.

PathOne
03-30-2006, 05:44 PM
Whuds you make some very good points,
all I can add is my british friend (sc student) was told by the GMC that if he transfered to a GMC recognized school he would have no issues. Mind you, he would still have 2 yr with SC on his transcript. So i must commend you on your info. Bottom line SC was accredited by the GMC in 2003-2004 and no one can dispute this. I hear what your saying Whuds and this is the sad reality why many went to SC.

The GMC has NEVER EVER accredited St. Chris. Their latest ruling means that ANY St. Chris graduate, from Senegal or Luton, will be ineligible for licensure in the UK, irrespective of what year they graduated. IF a St. Chris student transfers to another school, they would not be ineligible as far as the GMC is concerned. However, if they want to gain licensure in the US, they might face problems down the road, if it is determined that they have courses from a non-chartered school. This last point is, however, is speculation at this point.

marconim
03-30-2006, 05:47 PM
The GMC has NEVER EVER accredited St. Chris. Their latest ruling means that ANY St. Chris graduate, from Senegal or Luton, will be ineligible for licensure in the UK, irrespective of what year they graduated. IF a St. Chris student transfers to another school, they would not be ineligible as far as the GMC is concerned. However, if they want to gain licensure in the US, they might face problems down the road, if it is determined that they have courses from a non-chartered school. This last point is, however, is speculation at this point.

I beg to differ. REREAD WHAT I POSTED and then remake your grandiose statements!!!!!!!!!!!
P do you like to misconstrue everything anyone says because if you do,you'll be talking to yourself on this form.
thanks

hydatiform
03-30-2006, 06:34 PM
P do you like to misconstrue everything anyone says because if you do,you'll be talking to yourself on this form.
thanks

WAIT! Isn't that what EVERYONE ON HERE DOES ANYWAY?! Path, you fit right in :twisted:

PathOne
03-30-2006, 06:44 PM
I beg to differ. REREAD WHAT I POSTED and then remake your grandiose statements!!!!!!!!!!!
P do you like to misconstrue everything anyone says because if you do,you'll be talking to yourself on this form.
thanks

Oh, what a sophisticated argumentative level displayed here. Well, can't really say that your opinion of me matters very much.

Anyway, please present evidence that St. Chris was "accredited" by the GMC in 2003-2004, which is the point I'm disputing. Those are your own words, mind you.

bts4202
03-30-2006, 07:16 PM
The decision made by the gmc is both reasonable and expected. The exact same issues experienced with the ecfmg are being experienced with the gmc. Senegal had refused to issue the needed documentation due to their issues with Dr. L. The gmc got tired of waiting and has issued their decision, although they have aknowledged that if they do recieve the info that they demand, they will change their decision. Currently, the new admin is having to smooth over problems created by Dr. L. which will likely take a while. new information has come to light including Dr. L's refusal to pay many UK vendors, including Luton Uni (explains why we really left), and his general way of pissing off most people in the UK that he came into contact with. Luckily Dr. L hadn;t pissed off quite as many people in the US, so that reconcilliation may be easier. The Uk will take a bit of time I believe.

BTW, Mr. B also resigned 2 weeks ago or so. I forgot to mention that before.

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 07:21 PM
what are the issues the senegal government has with Dr.L??

hydatiform
03-30-2006, 08:18 PM
Isn't it obvious? The man is a scourge on humanity. And so was B. Although Senegal's motives can be questioned (I'm sure they're in it for the money), nobody wants to work with someone who is a bigger crook than they are for fear of being hoodwinked by them later. But now that they've both been removed, let's see what happens. I don't think people fully realize what a HUGELY POSITIVE turning point just having these 2 removed is for the school. Say what you will otherwise.

what are the issues the senegal government has with Dr.L??

AUCMD2006
03-30-2006, 10:59 PM
SEMANTICS.

No stamp, no residency.

but people keep having the grossly misguided notion that the ECFMG certificate is some sort of validation of credentials it is nothing of the sort.

marconim
03-31-2006, 12:02 AM
So when are the Saviors coming to the rescue?

dt
03-31-2006, 06:44 AM
Maybe they are thinking of the rapture...

milos
03-31-2006, 10:56 AM
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/acms/MOTN/CV0390W0E.ASP

1. For "venue", select Union.

2. For "party-individual", type in Mr. L's last name (first name optional).

3. Click "submit".

4. When you get to the next page, click on "detail".


A hearing is set for April 12. Apparently, Mr. L is trying to set aside a judgment against him filed last month.

Anyone have info on who the plaintiffs (Mr. and Mrs. K) are?

Blocks81
03-31-2006, 11:04 AM
what exactly is a civil suit? im not too familiar with all this legal stuff

Scott1981
03-31-2006, 11:13 AM
what exactly is a civil suit? im not too familiar with all this legal stuff

it means no criminal charges are against mr L, thus its not a criminal case.

lawsuits are considered civil cases.

CorporateRaider
03-31-2006, 11:21 AM
Civil law (common law) covers relations between individuals.

PRO SE , means representing oneself without a lawyer, except for Mrs. tricia.




it means no criminal charges are against mr L, thus its not a criminal case.

lawsuits are considered civil cases.

smoohead
03-31-2006, 12:46 PM
Hopefully things will be more clear after this weekend.

empathy
04-01-2006, 02:41 PM
If, you guys really wanted to oust the admin why didn't you just call the police in Luton and report them for falsely presenting themselves to students as a doctor. It is illegal for someone to represent themselves as a doctor or lawyer with 'good cause'. You can refer the police to Radio FiveLive. They did a thorough background investigation. Tell them about all the stories the admin shared with you.


To whom this may concern,

We are writing to announce the dismissal of Dr. **** L from the board of directors of St. Christopher’s Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine, Dakar, Senegal. It was announced that the remainder of the board of trustees have serious questions about whether Dr. L has engaged in unethical practices. This change will enable St. Christopher’s to push forward and develop an institution we can all be proud of.

As many are aware, the ECFMG has requested verification from Senegal that the Luton campus of St. Christopher’s is fully recognized and accredited. Although Senegal has always fully supported the Luton campus, this letter has been held back by Senegal due to the allegations against him. The Senegal administration and Ministry of Health does not wish to be involved with someone who has so many unanswered questions surrounding them and wanted some resolution before any support for the Luton campus was reaffirmed. The administration of the Dakar campus of St. Christopher’s is currently auditing each student file to ensure that no other illegal or unethical practices have been employed. Once that has occurred, the ECFMG will be informed that all remaining individuals have the full backing of the Senegal government from February 2000 until the end of this current semester. After that, accreditation of the current Luton campus will be removed and applied to a new campus in England that will be run by a new administrator recently hired by the Dakar campus president.

The charter of St. Christopher’s is owned by the sovereign country of Senegal and not by any one individual. However, the current physical facilities of the Luton campus is owned by Dr. L and he therefore still has the right to do with those facilities as he pleases. Therefore, anything that Dr. L does with the current UK business named St. Christopher’s College of Medicine Lmtd will have no relation whatsoever to the Senegal medical college of the same name. Should he attempt to obtain a new charter to continue operating the physical facilities that he owns, it will have to be considered an entirely new entity that is separate from the current college of medicine.

All of the details regarding the current changes have not been completely ironed out yet, however the Senegalese administration and their newly appointed UK administration are working around the clock to make all the necessary preparations. Both administrations have already held meetings with the ECFMG and some of the state licensing boards. They are trying to reverse previous policies of silence and remain completely transparent to outside official organizations. As we have more info, we will release it in a timely fashion.

handsomeroses100
04-01-2006, 04:54 PM
This Is Wonderful.you Guys Should Cooperate And Work With The New Adminstration Fom Senegal.i Think,running A Uk Campus Might Be Too Expensive For This New Adminstration So I Will Suggest They Move To Senegal.from History No Foreign Medical School In Uk Has Survived For More Than 10years.uk Is Very Expensive To Run A University.if St Chris Is In Senegal It Will Be The Same Attending A Medical School In The Caribean.african Professors Are Great.they Would Want To Teach You Guys To Excel More Than Other Usmle Candidates.then You Guys Must Make Sure Alan **** Is Removed Too.he Is A Chameleon,
Cheers Ex-kigezi Student

OLDPRO
04-01-2006, 05:27 PM
What happened to the tuition money paid and why was not Senegal given what it wanted?
For 400 students:
4,000,000 200 Basic sci year gross
3,200,000 200 Clinicals per year gross
7,200,000 yr
21,600,000 3 yrs
If Senegal was to get a cut then:
20%= 4.2 mil
30%= 6.3 mil
I think they would want 30% at least, and I was low on the figures I think its more than than that.

bts4202
04-02-2006, 10:10 AM
This Is Wonderful.you Guys Should Cooperate And Work With The New Adminstration Fom Senegal.i Think,running A Uk Campus Might Be Too Expensive For This New Adminstration So I Will Suggest They Move To Senegal.from History No Foreign Medical School In Uk Has Survived For More Than 10years.uk Is Very Expensive To Run A University.if St Chris Is In Senegal It Will Be The Same Attending A Medical School In The Caribean.african Professors Are Great.they Would Want To Teach You Guys To Excel More Than Other Usmle Candidates.then You Guys Must Make Sure Alan **** Is Removed Too.he Is A Chameleon,
Cheers Ex-kigezi Student

Alan B quit several weeks ago.

sheikh1
04-02-2006, 10:31 AM
The credit goes to the students who been fighting all this time!!!!

desai29
04-02-2006, 10:52 AM
I agree with you sheikh1.

OLDPRO
04-02-2006, 12:34 PM
I hope for the sakes of the current students the sway Senegal to step up and give support, the support they told WHO in 2000 they had for the school ( if they did) That way the former and current students will end up in a better place than I fear. For the future of the school, I really do not know. It will take time to assess.

hydatiform
04-02-2006, 07:14 PM
Now that L has been removed, Senegal has no reason NOT to support the campus 100%... I hear that the parent campus is growing as well and will be moving into a bigger building as of Monday. They are much more involved with the students than they were when they had L running the show and it seems they want student input to make much needed improvements. Hopefully it will shine through nicely in the coming weeks before the May semester begins.


I hope for the sakes of the current students the sway Senegal to step up and give support, the support they told WHO in 2000 they had for the school ( if they did) That way the former and current students will end up in a better place than I fear. For the future of the school, I really do not know. It will take time to assess.

teratos
04-02-2006, 07:24 PM
I can't imagine that many students will be there to start the May semester. No GMC, suspended ECFMG.

desai29
04-02-2006, 07:27 PM
I agree with hydatiform... just be patient and see St Christopher Iba Mar Dip College of Medicine growing..

pruritis_ani
04-02-2006, 07:30 PM
Now that L has been removed, Senegal has no reason NOT to support the campus 100%... I hear that the parent campus is growing as well and will be moving into a bigger building as of Monday. They are much more involved with the students than they were when they had L running the show and it seems they want student input to make much needed improvements. Hopefully it will shine through nicely in the coming weeks before the May semester begins.

Wonderful. You have the support of Senegal. But, the question of the day is if ECFMG and GMC will recognize the school. And, even if they do, what about the individual states?

After all of this, even if ECFMG and GMC come through, what will you really be left with? A school run by some folks that already held the students hostage for money once, a school that ruined what little reputation it may have had before this all began, a school that has many unanswered questions about licensure possiblities in the states, a school that has no outside evaluations speaking to the quality of the education...I could go on, but you get the point. This school has already failed everyone on so many levels, and offers nothing special in return.

So, forgive me if I am not optimistic or excited about the support of the Senegalese. That is the least of your worries.

orangecrush
04-02-2006, 07:35 PM
Where are they going to grow. The physical facilities are not owned by the Senegalese. Have there been any talk of new facilities?

What about clinical sites? What are the clinical students supposed to do? Does the new school actually have control of the clinical sites in the US? What about loans?

bts4202
04-02-2006, 07:59 PM
Where are they going to grow. The physical facilities are not owned by the Senegalese. Have there been any talk of new facilities?

What about clinical sites? What are the clinical students supposed to do? Does the new school actually have control of the clinical sites in the US? What about loans?

yes, those questions were answered tonight by the admin and recorded. The MP3 is available for download on forums.mdparadise.com (http://www.valuemd.com/Product%20Description%20%20%20%09%20%09%20%20Quant ity%20%20%20%09%20%09%20%20Price)

you must use a st chris email account to gain access.

BTW, for those people who keep saying "the new school", remember, it is new facilities but it is still the same school with the same accreditation. The SCMUAB school is the actual new school.

azskeptic
04-02-2006, 08:05 PM
yes, those questions were answered tonight by the admin and recorded. The MP3 is available for download on forums.mdparadise.com (http://www.valuemd.com/Product%20Description%20%20%20%09%20%09%20%20Quant ity%20%20%20%09%20%09%20%20Price)

you must use a st chris email account to gain access.

BTW, for those people who keep saying "the new school", remember, it is new facilities but it is still the same school with the same accreditation. The SCMUAB school is the actual new school.
Come on BTS, the school has had NO accreditation...mysteriously now the men in robes appear and say "We are backdating the accreditation".. If you buy that, I have some wonderful land here in Arizona I would like to sell you.

pruritis_ani
04-02-2006, 08:10 PM
Come on BTS, the school has had NO accreditation...mysteriously now the men in robes appear and say "We are backdating the accreditation".. If you buy that, I have some wonderful land here in Arizona I would like to sell you.
Even if it is accredited in Senegal, what does that mean? So far, not much....nobody outside of Senegal gives the school any recognition at all.

With all of the backing and accreditation that Senegal could throw at this school, there still would be a host of huge issues facing this school. Are the students really so desperate to stay in Luton that they are going to fall for this again? Are they so desperate that they really believe the backing of the Senegalese is all they need, and all the problems will be solved? Heck, you are getting a new building, so all must be good, right? Suuuurrreeee.

The spin artists are merely catching their breath before they come back in full force with a new, improved (or is it the same old?) St. Chris.

bts4202
04-02-2006, 08:11 PM
Come on BTS, the school has had NO accreditation...mysteriously now the men in robes appear and say "We are backdating the accreditation".. If you buy that, I have some wonderful land here in Arizona I would like to sell you.

There is no such thing as "backdating" accreditation.

desai29
04-02-2006, 08:17 PM
Let see what happen tomorrow during classes and hear student different opinion can not wait….

forrest
04-02-2006, 09:03 PM
I have a question for desai29 and BTS4202. I have graduated from St. Christopher's in the end of 2004. Based on the information you guys got from the administration, can you guys shed some light on the future of past graduates? Thanks.

bts4202
04-02-2006, 09:30 PM
I have a question for desai29 and BTS4202. I have graduated from St. Christopher's in the end of 2004. Based on the information you guys got from the administration, can you guys shed some light on the future of past graduates? Thanks.

no one can answer that yet. Sorry. Give the school a couple more weeks to put into action some of their plans and we will all see what kind of future we will all have.

ValuelessMD
04-02-2006, 09:47 PM
..........

pruritis_ani
04-02-2006, 10:06 PM
Bts has said they held the letters to ECFMG and GMC for "legal leverage"...that is interesting, but doubtful.

After all, St Chris was always just a satellite of the Senegal school, right? So, they certainly could have replaced the administration, or seperated themselves from Mr. L without having to hold the students hostage. I don't see anything about the current situation that required the Senegalese to lose all recognition before starting off on their own. Simply tell Mr. L to beat it, and start off on their own. Leave L his buildings and whatever else he has, and move the school along without digging a huge hole, which appears pretty difficult to get out of.

Unless, perhaps, they simply wanted more money from Mr. L, and didn't really care about how the school was being run. In that case, the letters were not witheld for "legal leverage", but rather negotiating power with Mr. L.

Oh, yes. This is the kind of group I would bank all of my money and hopes on. Thank goodness for these "honorable men". Clearly, they are going to put the student welfare and education above all else. Well, above all else after they get their share....

I have a feeling the only people falling for this are the current students. I would be surprised if the ECFMG and GMC fall for it as well. And, even if that remote possibility becomes a reality, I wouldn't bank on any but the most desperate of US states to accept these degrees for licensure.

Straight Shooter
04-03-2006, 05:38 AM
#@$^%%$^#%$&$%^@#$%

desai29
04-03-2006, 05:52 AM
forrest, contacted Mr. F***** check your Private Message for his email address… He said your credits are valid under Senegal...

forrest
04-03-2006, 04:53 PM
Dear desai29 and BTS4202, thanks for your reply. I hope things will turn for the better. Good luck in your studies.

PathOne
04-05-2006, 11:49 PM
SO the great solution worked out by St. Chris students w/ Senegalese is that Senegal will now take responsibility for original St. Chris. Ehh. Thought that it was promoted as a sattelite campus of Senegal the whole time? Well, that's a thing to examine for state medical boards in the future, I guess.

But now, setting aside the "other" St. Chris merger with MUA Belize, the Senegalese St. Chris - apparently - has:
1. A valid charter (though still no official word from Senegal that I have seen).
2. Support of current St. Chris students (who have little choice, as the alternative is that all money and time spent at St. Chris is for naught).

What the "new" Senegal St. Chris Luton DOESN'T have, though:
1. Buildings.'
2. Financial resources.
3. Proven ability to get GMC registration for grads (still a squatter school).
4. Training taking place in the country of charter.
5. Any proven plans to insure quality assurance.
6. Ability to attract new students (who would want to take that gamble?)

Obviously, I can see why St. Chris students are fighting for the "Senegal" solution. What else can they do? However, I have a hard time seeing how it'll ever fly. IF Senegal wasn't even able to shut down current (now previous) management without withholding recognition of charter, how in the world will Senegal be able to essentially recreate a medical school thousands of miles away from scratch? How will current and future graduates be able to convince medical boards that they in fact went to a legitimate school? There's just way too many questions in regards to this proposed "solution".

Obviously, there's little current students, esp. 3&4th years, and grads in training can do but fight as best they can to save their school. But please do tell me how exactly anyone expects St. Chris Luton - or whereever else it will be located - to be a reputable and viable medical school years from now? Unfortunately, it smells of little but rank desperation.

Also, some posters here claim that the GMC is working closely with Senegalese. But if GMC had ANY interest in keeping St. Chris alive, why would they now essentially have three requirements for accepting grads:
A) A valid charter - ok. Senegal could probably provide that.
B) The reference to quality assurance programs - Senegal would have quite a heavy burden of proof to lift here.
C) The reference to non-acceptance of UK-based medical schools working under a non-UK charter....

Frankly, I fail to see anything else than that GMC really isn't that keen for the UK to play host to squatter schools...

azskeptic
04-06-2006, 07:51 AM
Basically you end up with the same thing....squatter school, mysterious ownership, students being messed over. Any student who thinks logically should realize that they should just cut their losses and go to a proper school that isn't in the same situation.



SO the great solution worked out by St. Chris students w/ Senegalese is that Senegal will now take responsibility for original St. Chris. Ehh. Thought that it was promoted as a sattelite campus of Senegal the whole time? Well, that's a thing to examine for state medical boards in the future, I guess.

But now, setting aside the "other" St. Chris merger with MUA Belize, the Senegalese St. Chris - apparently - has:
1. A valid charter (though still no official word from Senegal that I have seen).
2. Support of current St. Chris students (who have little choice, as the alternative is that all money and time spent at St. Chris is for naught).

What the "new" Senegal St. Chris Luton DOESN'T have, though:
1. Buildings.'
2. Financial resources.
3. Proven ability to get GMC registration for grads (still a squatter school).
4. Training taking place in the country of charter.
5. Any proven plans to insure quality assurance.
6. Ability to attract new students (who would want to take that gamble?)

Obviously, I can see why St. Chris students are fighting for the "Senegal" solution. What else can they do? However, I have a hard time seeing how it'll ever fly. IF Senegal wasn't even able to shut down current (now previous) management without withholding recognition of charter, how in the world will Senegal be able to essentially recreate a medical school thousands of miles away from scratch? How will current and future graduates be able to convince medical boards that they in fact went to a legitimate school? There's just way too many questions in regards to this proposed "solution".

Obviously, there's little current students, esp. 3&4th years, and grads in training can do but fight as best they can to save their school. But please do tell me how exactly anyone expects St. Chris Luton - or whereever else it will be located - to be a reputable and viable medical school years from now? Unfortunately, it smells of little but rank desperation.

Also, some posters here claim that the GMC is working closely with Senegalese. But if GMC had ANY interest in keeping St. Chris alive, why would they now essentially have three requirements for accepting grads:
A) A valid charter - ok. Senegal could probably provide that.
B) The reference to quality assurance programs - Senegal would have quite a heavy burden of proof to lift here.
C) The reference to non-acceptance of UK-based medical schools working under a non-UK charter....

Frankly, I fail to see anything else than that GMC really isn't that keen for the UK to play host to squatter schools...

dt
04-06-2006, 10:38 AM
Basically you end up with the same thing....squatter school, mysterious ownership, students being messed over. Any student who thinks logically should realize that they should just cut their losses and go to a proper school that isn't in the same situation.

Except those who need to worry about the 7-year USMLE completion rule. They are in a tough spot come licensure time.

AUCMD2006
04-06-2006, 11:53 AM
[quote] What the "new" Senegal St. Chris Luton DOESN'T have, though:
1. Buildings.'
2. Financial resources.
3. Proven ability to get GMC registration for grads (still a squatter school).
4. Training taking place in the country of charter.
5. Any proven plans to insure quality assurance.
6. Ability to attract new students (who would want to take that gamble?) [quote]




hey, at least SC luton has something in common with SC senegal

PathOne
04-06-2006, 11:54 AM
Except those who need to worry about the 7-year USMLE completion rule. They are in a tough spot come licensure time.

Yes, therein lies the rub (at least one of them). IF you're a St. Chris student in 1st or 2nd year, best thing would be to start all over, preferably at SGU which will make you licensable in all 50 states.

But if you're 3rd or 4th year, there's a major problem, especially if you've taken USMLE Step 1. This obviously explains why those students are banking so hard on the Senegalese coming through, but as all are aware, that solution isn't exactly fail-safe. Unfortunately, there's currently no scenario which would ensure that those students will ever be able to gain licensure, so IF the Senegal solution would be workable, it might save those students (but probably not the school in the long run). If it doesn't work, and Senegal doesn't verify the charter, those students (and graduates) would find themselves in a nearly impossible situation.

There's certainly a hugely important lesson in this for future offshore students, i.e. NEVER EVER go to an unproven school operating on the brink of legal rules, which in itself makes even the current salvage operation nearly impossible. Best outcome would be an orderly shutdown, which saves those students that really can't transfer out. Unfortunately, the Senegalese actions (or lack of same) so far doesn't seem to be much better than the much-maligned founder, which doesn't bode well for the future.

azskeptic
04-06-2006, 11:58 AM
[quote] What the "new" Senegal St. Chris Luton DOESN'T have, though:
1. Buildings.'
2. Financial resources.
3. Proven ability to get GMC registration for grads (still a squatter school).
4. Training taking place in the country of charter.
5. Any proven plans to insure quality assurance.
6. Ability to attract new students (who would want to take that gamble?) [quote]




hey, at least SC luton has something in common with SC senegal

and the licensing ability remains the same

Tritonesub
04-06-2006, 01:00 PM
That is according to the extremely limited amount of information that you have and is incorrect. Sorry.... try again :)

PathOne
04-06-2006, 01:13 PM
That is according to the extremely limited amount of information that you have and is incorrect. Sorry.... try again :)

Well, thankfully it's not MY future that's hanging by a thread. Now, you fail to indicate what information is incorrect, and you fail to provide information which is factually correct. However, it's still a free country, and people are free to imagine what they hope, and speculate away to their hearts content.

However, if you really think that St. Chris can emerge from this debacle unscathed - wait... ehh... if one, or both, or all three St. Chris'es can survive, I'm afraid that, based on current factual information, you are delusional.

Provide facts, or accept that your statements are just that and nothing more: Statements and speculation.

gazpacho
04-06-2006, 01:15 PM
Provide facts, or accept that your statements are just that and nothing more: Statements and speculation.

s/he can't, it's confidential. :rolleyes:

Tritonesub
04-06-2006, 02:47 PM
[quote=PathOne]Well, thankfully it's not MY future that's hanging by a thread. Now, you fail to indicate what information is incorrect, and you fail to provide information which is factually correct. However, it's still a free country, and people are free to imagine what they hope, and speculate away to their hearts content.

[quote]

Exactly... have fun speculating and imagining what you hope, we have proof. Enjoy yourselves.....

PathOne
04-06-2006, 02:51 PM
Exactly... have fun speculating and imagining what you hope, we have proof. Enjoy yourselves.....

Ohh, lucky you... Only such a shame that ECFMG and GMC doesn't. But good luck presenting your proof when you're applying for a permanent license.

azskeptic
04-06-2006, 02:52 PM
it would be nice if one of the operations would provide some medical help to the poor countries in africa. this article speaks to the problems

http://www.sabcnews.com/world/other/0,2172,125199,00.html

Why don't students transfer back to Senegal and get their medical degrees done in a place that needs them?

pruritis_ani
04-06-2006, 02:59 PM
Exactly... have fun speculating and imagining what you hope, we have proof. Enjoy yourselves.....

I love it! You have proof...sure you do:D

You have what somebody is telling you, nothing more. The "proof" is that currently your school has no GMC and no ECFMG. Proof...you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means (stolen from Inigo Montoya, Princess Bride).

What I find amusing is that SC students actually think there is something out there that will magically change the status of this school. Not going to happen. Best case, the school gets back GMC and ECFMG. Whoopdeedooo. Even with that, there is nothing that can be said about licensing, except that the states certainly are aware of the sad state of affairs. Additionally, SC still has no outside recognition of quality. So, even if some magic occurs, and SC students can get an ECFMG cert, and maybe even a residency, licensure is still a distant dream that will likely remain unacheivable.

Picard
04-06-2006, 04:25 PM
stolen from Inigo Montoya, Princess Bride).

"Hello, My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!."
That's one of my all time favorite movie! :cool:

In all seriousness. There are only two possible ways for SC-Luton to survive in any meaningful way and still allow it's graduates a meaningful chance of licensure in the US -- 1) Pack up the Luton operation and move it back to Senegal as an "English program" of SC-Dakar... sort of like the English programs in many Eastern European schools. And if this is to be considered, the English program ought to mirror the French program -- meaning it should be taught using Senegal curriculum and done entirely in Senegal, including all clinical trainings. 2) Cut all ties with Mr. L and Senegal and go independent, and seek full British accreditation as a British medical school granting MBBS or one of it's variations. Anything short of the above two options will only cause problems for students down the line. There is nothing out there for Trib and company to prove. That's simply the state of current IMG situation for those offshore schools that have not achieved any recognition/approval from any US jurisdictions such, as NY, FL, or CA.

It's very sad that SC-Luton students see ECFMG/GMC re-recognition as a paramount thing to achieve. ECFMG recognition should be the bare minimum for ANY school that are still operational. There are plenty of IMG's with ECFMG certificates that are not licensible in any US jurisdictions. Getting ECFMG back, if SC ever does, will not really solve the problems SC currently face. The news of SC's current situation is spreading among many medical boards across the country. And the perceptions among the boards are not good. It's very likely that SC grads, even with ECFMG's, will be scrutinized intensely come licensure time, and will not pass scrutiny in many boards. It's a no-win situation.

P

Tritonesub
04-06-2006, 04:31 PM
Yes, i have proof and soon everyone will. I dont think that anyone is expecting the resolution of this to lead to some magical elevation of the school. It will definetly increase exposure and new student admission. If you dont think so look what happened to Ross and st. George after disasterous events took place there. There is outisde quality assurance and has been since the school started. The visits however were not documented to the satisfaction of the GMC. As far as license, I know of 5 people who have been granted license since this thing started in November... not to mentioned the many who were licensed before. So before you start dreaming up theories.. why not look for factual information... no one is going to give this to you.. you have to look for it yourself.... but it is there. Unless of course it is too much work for you and all you can handle is posting your ignorance of information on this website... something you all are pros at!

dt
04-06-2006, 04:43 PM
...
As far as license, I know of 5 people who have been granted license since this thing started in November... not to mentioned the many who were licensed before. ...

What is the possibility that these licensures will be reviewed again by the respective state boards? It seems to me that there are enough uncertainties underlying the educational credential of the school to warrant a second look?

Do state medical boards care enough to question these licenses?

Have they done so previously, in other cases?

Tritonesub
04-06-2006, 04:46 PM
Picard,

They have started an english program as of last year, however the demand from senegalese nationals is low and those that do prefer english instruction would rather do it abroad in the UK. There are several senegalese and african nationals who attend the campus in the UK. Students of SCIMD are given a choice of which campus they would like to attend. I doubt that they will ever shut down the UK campus and only remain in senegal. The whole idea of spending time in the country of charter is pointless. If you think it has something to do with quality assurance, perhaps you can tell me what measures are currently taken at any of the carib schools by their country of charter?

I mean why 'hide' your school on some remote island that is difficult to get to even with modern modes of transportation? If you have nothing to 'hide', why not locate your school in legitimate country (UK, senegal). Why get a charter from an island that has a charter itself to operate a government?

Picard
04-06-2006, 04:48 PM
Again you are missing the point. So what there are a few graduates (who graduated before the current fiasco) that got licensed. They are holding documents that predates the current ban/fiasco. That means VERY LITTLE to the security of current students, especially the ones who are just starting out, and will not enter the licensing process for at least another 5 years. GMC/ECFMG are the least of your problems. Like I said, there are plenty of IMG"s with ECFMG certs who are not licensible. You simply do not understand the current IMG licensing trend. You can have all the "proof" you want in terms of "visits" from whatever Senegal official that may or may not satisfy GMC. They will not satisfy most state medical boards.

Like I said, the news of SC's current situation/fiasco is spreading among medical boards. As an US medical school faculty, I actually attend licensing related meetings on a fairly regular basis in various levels. Nothing good can come out of this SC fiasco short of moving back to Senegal or obtaining British accreditation (not just getting back your ability to sit for PLAB as an IMG in UK.) And there may be more agencies involved in this fiasco, including some 3-letter alphabet types, then you probably realize.

P

Picard
04-06-2006, 05:13 PM
Do state medical boards care enough to question these licenses?

Have they done so previously, in other cases?

I believe so. In the not-to-distant past, many docs who bought their degree from questionable schools in the former USSR had their licenses yanked.


I mean why 'hide' your school on some remote island that is difficult to get to even with modern modes of transportation? If you have nothing to 'hide', why not locate your school in legitimate country (UK, senegal). Why get a charter from an island that has a charter itself to operate a government?
You may not think physical attendence in the charter country is a big deal, many state medical boards do.
Many caribbean islands are sovereign nations with better living conditions than Senegal. If SC is so proud to be an African school, why not move back to Senegal -- because no one will want to go there. Heck, you even said it yourself, even Senegalese students don't want to stay in Senegal. What does that say about the condition and quality of the country? Instead, SC-Luton squats in another sovereign country as a "private business." This is a much more questionable practice than most Carib school's operation. If Mr. L really hadn't pay Senegal like he was suppose to, do you really think there is much, if any, oversight from Senegal? And, for a country of 11 million, there is only one functional medical school before SC-Dakar (which is a questionable outfit) . What does that say about Senegal's experiences and ability to accredit proper medical education?
Offshore education is an industry that has been "perfected" by the established schools in the Caribbean. SC took a chance and experimented with a model that has failed. And state medical boards are taking notice.

There is nothing to "hide" in the Caribbean. Most Americans know where the Caribbean islands are... I bet you not many know where Senegal is. Senegal, like many Carib nations, were European colonies up until the 1960's before their independences. There are no signficant differences in the political history between Senegal and carib nations.

P

AUCMD2006
04-06-2006, 09:36 PM
you also forget to mention something SC never had and those are state approvals. you ask for oversight? there you have it, those approvals are reviewed continuously, spartan lost theirs.... i wouldn't trust st marteen, dominica, grenada medical associations any more than senegal in accrediting or running a med school so i look for things i can trust from the states. those would be in order of imporrtance:1) keeping stafford loans because there are min educational standards needed to keep em2)california approved. being the closest to lcme standards3)NY, approval for rotations gives you access to audition at 33% of all residency slots4) FL..another high profile statehow can you asure that SC senegal is actually there? there was even a report of it being a closet and a telephone...

Bhoot
04-13-2006, 08:24 PM
To Scott1981 and others:
Many universities have private student forums and intranet not available to the public. I really don't understand your problem with SCCM having one as well.

teratos
04-13-2006, 08:31 PM
To Scott1981 and others:
Many universities have private student forums and intranet not available to the public. I really don't understand your problem with SCCM having one as well.

One problem as I see it, is if people had only stuck to those fora, nobody would have ever seen this coming, because of all the sunshine people were spewing. Of course, a closed forum is great for disucssing issues without outside interference, and sometimes students, especially St. Chris students, need that. G

pruritis_ani
04-13-2006, 08:46 PM
One problem as I see it, is if people had only stuck to those fora, nobody would have ever seen this coming, because of all the sunshine people were spewing. Of course, a closed forum is great for disucssing issues without outside interference, and sometimes students, especially St. Chris students, need that. G

I agree 100%. It is not the having of private fora that is the problem, it is the culture of secrecy. It is as though the students of SC don't want to face the problems, and if they talk about it in secrecy, and only with supporters, the problems will go away.

I am sure that now the private forums are abuzz with activity, and are certainly not the scenes of bliss and optimism that they once were...but, in the past, it was pretty clear that people that didn't want to hear any of the negative predictions felt at home on the private forum. Well, right about now all of the bad predictions are true...

Private fora are a great idea for in school matters, such as housing, note exchanges, talking about profs, whatever. And this is why other schools have these forums, and why students use them. But, if you venture into the public realm you are exposed to much more information, from many different sources. While some of them may be saying things you don't want to hear, that doesn't mean you shouldn't hear it anyway. I bet a LOT of people are wishing the paid closer attention to the VMD group of "SC bashers" about now.

Scott1981
04-13-2006, 09:03 PM
To Scott1981 and others:
Many universities have private student forums and intranet not available to the public. I really don't understand your problem with SCCM having one as well.

caribbean medical schools have private forums???? name the schools that have them.

my problem with this is that private forums cater to biased views. i wouldnt want to imagine a forum where newbies got info about SC where BTS and MTT and many other clones of them were the "official" info givers.

that is the problem with that. there is no balanced viewpoints in that type of a setting. the setting you claim to have no problem with smells of controlled propaganda.

where would all of the charter warnings have come from? many were given on VMD. your "private forums" wouldnt have offered these viewpoints, because the only ones offering opinions on the school would be cheerleaders.

im suprised you have no problem with this. its really just common sense.

Picard
04-13-2006, 10:21 PM
caribbean medical schools have private forums???? name the schools that have them.

SGU has had private areas for students for many years on their sgu.edu site. The "university members only" areas are used for things like disseminating course materials/handouts, announcements (things that would only matter to students such as change in lecture schedule, things like that), forums for students to chat about mundane daily stuff like classified things for sale, "how was xyz test yesterday... etc" and student e-mail.

Most US schools (not just medical schools) have that. The university I teach at now has many "university member only" sites for students in all schools and majors. Many departments also have departmetn only intranet webs... it's common practice.

Now, the problem is, if the school uses intranet to mislead students and discourage students from seeking outside input... that's a big problem

P

amyames
04-13-2006, 10:59 PM
actually when I was a going to be a Jan 06' 1st termer at St. Chris I got access to the private forums (no longer do) and I have to say that the forums were more real than anything the st. chris students posted on vmd. On the private forums, everyone aired out the grievances and really put the bad out there...if that stuff was on vmd I don't think any newbies would apply!


it's good to have private fora, but it's not good to have one area like VMD spouting off all happy thoughts, and another like the private fora, spewing things in an opposite direction.

teratos
04-14-2006, 06:24 AM
caribbean medical schools have private forums???? name the schools that have them.



AUC has (or had) one on their website. You need your student number and a password to log on. G

Scott1981
04-14-2006, 08:54 AM
wow, i didnt know this was such a common practice. i stand corrected.

i still think its better to have objective outsider point of views on these things.

rokshana
04-14-2006, 10:35 AM
wow, i didnt know this was such a common practice. i stand corrected.

i still think its better to have objective outsider point of views on these things.

what on things like when was the CDC posted online or that there is housing available in ratho mill? The memebers only forum is for things like that- not necessary to have an outside voice.

Scott1981
04-14-2006, 10:53 AM
what on things like when was the CDC posted online or that there is housing available in ratho mill? The memebers only forum is for things like that- not necessary to have an outside voice.

what i meant was that if the private forum is used for topics such as liscensure, charter issues, etc........ those topics would be better suited for a public forum.

microphage
04-19-2006, 01:33 AM
AUC has (or had) one on their website. You need your student number and a password to log on. G


I think it was the AUC AMSA forum.... I never joined AMSA so I doubt I had access.

teratos
04-19-2006, 05:46 PM
I think it was the AUC AMSA forum.... I never joined AMSA so I doubt I had access.

No there was one on the main AUC website. G

empathy
12-18-2006, 05:19 PM
but not least







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