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stchrisunion
03-29-2006, 02:30 PM
Several hours ago, an injunction was served in England against St. Christopher's College of Medicine Limited, St. Christopher's Admissions Corporation, and St. Christopher's Admissions Limited. All assets were seized and we have provided you below with the official injunction filed by the High Court of Justice - Chancery Division.

Anyone who would like to donate to the students' lawsuit should PayPal to ************@yahoo.com .


Any student who is affected by this and wants to be part of the lawsuit should email their full contact information to ************@yahoo.com .


Copy of the Official Injunction for the Public.

http://www.stchrisunion.org/downloads/stchrisinjunction.zip


related links:

http://www.valuemd.com/medical-university-americas-mua-belize/108984-injunction-served-england.html

OLDPRO
03-29-2006, 02:36 PM
Yea saw this coming. :( My sad face is for "It had to come to this" No one went to med school thinking we would be in all this crap.

MDXRS22
03-29-2006, 03:03 PM
That's a good step toward recovery.

Blocks81
03-29-2006, 03:09 PM
hey Jarret I applaud you for what your doing, i hope Phony L--- and fraudulent Mr. B end up behind bars.

maximillian genossa
03-29-2006, 03:24 PM
Job well done, bring them to justice and make them pay.




Several hours ago, an injunction was served in England against St. Christopher's College of Medicine Limited, St. Christopher's Admissions Corporation, and St. Christopher's Admissions Limited. All assets were seized and we have provided you below with the official injunction filed by the High Court of Justice - Chancery Division.

Anyone who would like to donate to the students' lawsuit should PayPal to ************@yahoo.com .


Any student who is affected by this and wants to be part of the lawsuit should email their full contact information to ************@yahoo.com .


Copy of the Official Injunction for the Public.

http://www.stchrisunion.org/downloads/stchrisinjunction.zip


related links:

http://www.valuemd.com/medical-university-americas-mua-belize/108984-injunction-served-england.html

angel_fyre
03-29-2006, 03:36 PM
GOOD job, make these liars and cheaters pay for what they have done, there lucky people are JUST taking legal action and didnt start rioting. i know many people including myself who have law suits going against Dr. L and the rest of the "St. ** school of medicine", lets so what happens now?

maximillian genossa
03-29-2006, 03:43 PM
Since they have been conducting business out of Jersey, it would be recommended to file court actions in NJ and any other US jurisdiction where PL and mr B may be located, just to make sure you cover all your bases.

I assume it has already been done.

Bringing them to justice is the best thing students can do.







GOOD job, make these liars and cheaters pay for what they have done, there lucky people are JUST taking legal action and didnt start rioting. i know many people including myself who have law suits going against Dr. L and the rest of the "St. ** school of medicine", lets so what happens now?

MD04
03-29-2006, 03:45 PM
well done for students.
There is no doubt all theses news medical schools have to regulated stricly.
All I know GMC ( Britonian) is smarter than ECFMG(American).
I hope from now on ECFMG carefully evaluvate all the new school before adding to their list.

tiredintern
03-29-2006, 03:48 PM
how about that egg on our faces???

angel_fyre
03-29-2006, 03:52 PM
it really sucks that innocent people and students who have spent SO much time, money, and hardwork have to suffer like this...i hope DR. L...gets whats coming to him people like him should be made to suffer the same way he made students suffer, i think he should be shipped off to iraq and handed over to some of the iraqi people.. they would know what to do with people like that?

CorporateRaider
03-29-2006, 04:36 PM
As we have seen, via proof positive submitted by young Dr. *****, some students are taking a "we won't be denied" attitud. The utilization of your rights and implementation of due process is a cornerstone of what, "it", is all about. I appalud all LEGAL efforts for a resolution. Having an independent and impartial Judge to figure this out is refreshing.

john2006
03-29-2006, 05:12 PM
.................

Scott1981
03-29-2006, 05:14 PM
******* or some other student needs to file in NJ as well. if much of SC's laundered money is in the US (NJ), i think the UK court will not have jurisdiction. freezing of all assets on both sides of the ocean is neccessary.

good luck ******* and the rest of the SC students.

angel_fyre
03-29-2006, 05:38 PM
i think your right, what if they completely fold St.Chris like delcare bankrupsee then who do you go after? i dont know to much about legal matters but is it not true if bankrupsee were filed then sueing would be pointless?

Picard
03-29-2006, 08:38 PM
Not a lawyer, so I'm not offering legal advice...

Speaking from experiences as a former law enforcement officer, I think civil recourses, while nice, is probably not as effective as SC students may hope for. The injunction only listed $250,000 pounds as UK financial asset for SC... where are the rest of the money? In the US? I think the only good part about this injunction is the prevention of SC from destroying any records.

The teeth is in criminal prosecution, if appropriate (I don't know all the nitty gritty details of SC owners dealings). On the US side, I suggest dealing with the US Attorney's Office rather than NJ State Attorney's Office if criminal route is entertained. By using USPS, telephones in their business practices, they fall under the jurisdiction of various federal agencies. If financial crimes such as money laundering, banking fraud took place, Secret Service has jurisdiction. The USAO can often assist and direct the appropriate agency to investigate.

On the civil side, I believe SC owners have personal assets outside of NJ that may be out of reach of NJ courts. And since the Owners are Americans, and students come from many different US states, I believe this creates Federal jurisdiction in civil matters.

One wild thought -- did SC's owners break any Senegalese laws? By having a contract and not paying, did they break any criminal laws in Senegal? Did they ever set foot on Senegal to creat jurisdiction? If so, will Senegal file charges and swear out an international warrant? Does US have extradiction agreements with Senegal? Does UK?

P

Scott1981
03-29-2006, 08:45 PM
One wild thought -- did SC's owners break any Senegalese laws? By having a contract and not paying, did they break any criminal laws in Senegal? Did they ever set foot on Senegal to creat jurisdiction? If so, will Senegal file charges and swear out an international warrant? Does US have extradiction agreements with Senegal? Does UK?

P

i would be very scared at what senegal's punishment would be if convicted there :shock:.

azskeptic
03-30-2006, 06:22 AM
how about that egg on our faces??? Well, the test of a persons strength is if they have egg on their face and know it and don't wipe it off. Students who do the right things can recover from this.

jpryor
03-30-2006, 08:37 AM
Not a lawyer, so I'm not offering legal advice...P

Some day, Picard, I'd like to meet you and shake your hand. Even though you and I butted heads initially. :)

You're right on the money. Unfortunately, so many of these people posting THINK they know and have run amok with wild ideations.

The circumstances with St. Chris are not going to change because people on VMD throw tantrums and make wild accusations. Clearly, the way the real world operates escapes the comprehension of most. I suppose it feeds egos to make a demand on VMD and the next day claim victory because no action occured.

I've been repeating it: once everything becomes public knowledge, people will understand why things have been happening the way they have been happening. If people want to assume the worst, there's nothing anybody can say or do right now to change that.

pruritis_ani
03-30-2006, 09:16 AM
I've been repeating it: once everything becomes public knowledge, people will understand why things have been happening the way they have been happening. If people want to assume the worst, there's nothing anybody can say or do right now to change that.

Well, what appears to be happening is the Senegalese are going to try to run another school in England (with all the same problems of the previous St. Chris and more...), just minus the infamous Mr. L.

If something other than that comes into play (ie. the school relocates to Senegal, the UK absorb the school and make it one of their own, or something else that I haven't even thought of), that would be surprising to me and great news for the school. However, if this is just about a bunch of legal wrangling to merely bring the school to a level significantly lower that it was before, it really seems foolish to try to fan the optimism. It was a poor choice before, it is an absolutely moronic choice now, and it takes some vivid imagination to ever think this school will be much more than a very borderline school for people who can't get in anywhere else and don't care about a pretty flimsy degree.

I can't wait to see all of these wonderful secrets about "why things are happening the way they are". But, unless it results in an entirely new school with NOTHING in common with the old St. Chris, I don't see it changing very much about the problems of the school.

azskeptic
03-30-2006, 09:22 AM
Well, what appears to be happening is the Senegalese are going to try to run another school in England (with all the same problems of the previous St. Chris and more...), just minus the infamous Mr. L.

If something other than that comes into play (ie. the school relocates to Senegal, the UK absorb the school and make it one of their own, or something else that I haven't even thought of), that would be surprising to me and great news for the school. However, if this is just about a bunch of legal wrangling to merely bring the school to a level significantly lower that it was before, it really seems foolish to try to fan the optimism. It was a poor choice before, it is an absolutely moronic choice now, and it takes some vivid imagination to ever think this school will be much more than a very borderline school for people who can't get in anywhere else and don't care about a pretty flimsy degree.

I can't wait to see all of these wonderful secrets about "why things are happening the way they are". But, unless it results in an entirely new school with NOTHING in common with the old St. Chris, I don't see it changing very much about the problems of the school. In discussions with the GMC I can see NO way a school can put a school in the UK and gain their approval. A new Senegal attempt would appear to be futile if it consists of studying only in the UK during basic sciences.

covertopz
03-30-2006, 09:36 AM
excuse me for being ignorant to the situation, but i dont have time to sit on the forum to read every1's post on why they want to see st. chris shut down....

but can i just get clarification from the people who post on here, why you believe st. chris not to be qualified to give a medical degree.

Excluding, what L and other possible administration have done, why do you "pick on" our school. I dont believe it to be any worse than the caribbean schools, yet I dont see you all trying to shutdown the big 3 or other sixty schools dispersed on the islands.

We have qualified teaching staff and proper facilities. Many of the graduates have been successful and will be starting careers.

I dont see how st. chris is worse than a school that is located on a island. We are chartered from an actual country of 12,000,000, not a rock with a population of 1,200.

Im just not understanding the hatred toward this school and im not trying to start a pointless argument. I would just like valid reasons why this school should not continue to operate, other than the past administration reason.

PathOne
03-30-2006, 10:01 AM
excuse me for being ignorant to the situation, but i dont have time to sit on the forum to read every1's post on why they want to see st. chris shut down....

but can i just get clarification from the people who post on here, why you believe st. chris not to be qualified to give a medical degree.

Excluding, what L and other possible administration have done, why do you "pick on" our school. I dont believe it to be any worse than the caribbean schools, yet I dont see you all trying to shutdown the big 3 or other sixty schools dispersed on the islands.

We have qualified teaching staff and proper facilities. Many of the graduates have been successful and will be starting careers.

I dont see how st. chris is worse than a school that is located on a island. We are chartered from an actual country of 12,000,000, not a rock with a population of 1,200.

Im just not understanding the hatred toward this school and im not trying to start a pointless argument. I would just like valid reasons why this school should not continue to operate, other than the past administration reason.

Well, actually it's not posters on this board but the GMC which says that your school is not qualified to give medical degrees. This is due to the fact that GMC has been unable to verify that St. Chris is working under a valid medical charter, which is a requirement for ALL countries in the world granting licensure to physicians. Other schools may be operating under charters granted by "island rocks", but their charters are valid, and the medical schools are located in the country of charter. That's the difference. And for anyone wanting to work as a physician, that's a crucial difference.

covertopz
03-30-2006, 10:08 AM
Well, actually it's not posters on this board but the GMC which says that your school is not qualified to give medical degrees. This is due to the fact that GMC has been unable to verify that St. Chris is working under a valid medical charter, which is a requirement for ALL countries in the world granting licensure to physicians. Other schools may be operating under charters granted by "island rocks", but their charters are valid, and the medical schools are located in the country of charter. That's the difference. And for anyone wanting to work as a physician, that's a crucial difference.

i understand this....but there are still comments coming from users that they would rather (And possible enjoy) just see the school shut down.....even when we have disclosed information that senegal is ready to back us after the removal of L. Hence we will be operating under a valid medical charter.

PathOne
03-30-2006, 10:24 AM
I'm sorry, but so far I fail to see ANY official statement or indication from Senegal backing up this claim. Why exactly is it that Senegal wants to run a medical school in the UK designed to produce physicians for the US, the UK and other first world countries? It seems to me that there's ample scope for using scarce resources to shore up medical training IN Senegal, rather than to run St. Chris.

jpryor
03-30-2006, 10:47 AM
Let's see...the GMC does not use VMD to make official announcements. The ECFMG does not use VMD to make official annuncements. In fact, who does use VMD to make official announcements?

If you aren't in the loop it doesn't mean that everything you don't know is bogus.

jpryor
03-30-2006, 10:59 AM
In discussions with the GMC ...

Funny, other people have had 'discussions' with the GMC and have been given different information...which makes sense, since the government of Senegal is complying with a recent request from the GMC, which would be pointless if the GMC was not willing to allow the school to operate on UK soil.

It's also odd, if what you believe to be true actually was, that the GMC and the ECFMG are working cooperatively with Senegal on another issue...or isn't your source in that loop?

CorporateRaider
03-30-2006, 11:05 AM
Ready for my Opinon of the day kiddies?

I applaud the efforts of the "real" administrators of the Charter from Senegal. My experience with schools, any schools is that as soon as the "shite" hits the proverbial fan, the administration develops the "cockroach syndrome." (Sigh) but before I can continue;
Special Note:
Cockroach Syndrome vs Ant Syndrome:

Cockroach Syndrome:

Ever notice when you are in an area where there is a high concentration of Cockroaches you can hear them. But as soon as you turn on a LIGHT the cockroaches scatter. Cockroaches are all about doing dirty deeds but as soon as the "light" flashes on, they run, EVERY man for themselves ! Just like a child's caricature, the roaches run so fast that their tennis shoes hits them on the behind, due to their fast rate of acceleration.

Ant Syndrome:

Ants are different. They work day or night. They work together. They all know their roles in their ant society. Turn on a light and ants don't take off "every man for himself."

So says I:
Senegal. They are willing to stand by the students. They are trying to offer solutions. They are working with the students. The Senegalese are working the phones, burning the mid-night oil, traveling, dammit all, they are backing up the kids. This is whats it all about, the kids ! Protect them, these fine, brilliant young minds. In the end, if the efforts are worthless (this remains to be seen) , I would continue to applaud the efforts of the Senegalese (whomever they are), because they have not left the students stranded. I applaud the efforts of the student body leaders, this is what they are supposed to be doing, leading. I am sure the student body leaders are no longer taking anyone's word for it and are documenting everything offered, said and done.

AUCMD2006
03-30-2006, 11:06 AM
excuse me for being ignorant to the situation, but i dont have time to sit on the forum to read every1's post on why they want to see st. chris shut down....

but can i just get clarification from the people who post on here, why you believe st. chris not to be qualified to give a medical degree.

Excluding, what L and other possible administration have done, why do you "pick on" our school. I dont believe it to be any worse than the caribbean schools, yet I dont see you all trying to shutdown the big 3 or other sixty schools dispersed on the islands.

We have qualified teaching staff and proper facilities. Many of the graduates have been successful and will be starting careers.

I dont see how st. chris is worse than a school that is located on a island. We are chartered from an actual country of 12,000,000, not a rock with a population of 1,200.

Im just not understanding the hatred toward this school and im not trying to start a pointless argument. I would just like valid reasons why this school should not continue to operate, other than the past administration reason.

not hatred or any inclination that SC isn't producing good doctors nor offering good education.

the problem from day one on this site has been lies and deceit that has been used to recruit by unsuspecting students to luton. i mean the fisr website of the school had pictures of cambridge!

the lies started at the top and were spread by a faithful group of lemings that seemed to be the voice of admin verbatim with intricate knowledge of dealings the finances etc. there were complaints about students with influential parents helping get clinical sites and getting preferential treatment.

questions about faculty, charter issues, the 1998-2000 students and a ton of other issues that were brushed to the side and students were directed to post any and all questions outside public arena and on the private server

basically anyone with any sort of questions about admin, the credentials of king pin, whom until last week was still protected by the inner circle of SC cheerleaders, was blasted called a troll, basher etc....

if you look at other fora, schools are critiqued, made fun of, praised, faculty is discussed, curriculm/usmle pass rates, etc are questioned and so on..

so it really has nothing to do with the quality of education, just the utter lack of transparancy that has gone on here and probably landed many students there whom did not realize what they were getting into....

azskeptic
03-30-2006, 11:33 AM
Funny, other people have had 'discussions' with the GMC and have been given different information...which makes sense, since the government of Senegal is complying with a recent request from the GMC, which would be pointless if the GMC was not willing to allow the school to operate on UK soil.

It's also odd, if what you believe to be true actually was, that the GMC and the ECFMG are working cooperatively with Senegal on another issue...or isn't your source in that loop? We shall see. By the way, the Senegal people who are there are not govt officials but rather individuals trying to get into the economic swing of things. Enough of the secrets, again as before I say we'll see what is going to happen. Your sources haven't been too good so far but mine have done fairly well.

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 11:35 AM
excuse me for being ignorant to the situation, but i dont have time to sit on the forum to read every1's post on why they want to see st. chris shut down....

but can i just get clarification from the people who post on here, why you believe st. chris not to be qualified to give a medical degree.

Excluding, what L and other possible administration have done, why do you "pick on" our school. I dont believe it to be any worse than the caribbean schools, yet I dont see you all trying to shutdown the big 3 or other sixty schools dispersed on the islands.

We have qualified teaching staff and proper facilities. Many of the graduates have been successful and will be starting careers.

I dont see how st. chris is worse than a school that is located on a island. We are chartered from an actual country of 12,000,000, not a rock with a population of 1,200.

Im just not understanding the hatred toward this school and im not trying to start a pointless argument. I would just like valid reasons why this school should not continue to operate, other than the past administration reason.

1. I have seen little "shut them down" I have seen "They will shut down"
2. No ECMFG, No GMC, No Loans
3. How can a school that is unable to pay it's debts be viable? Uh assests frozen, Law suit to do that........
4. Yes good professors but read #2
5. Name is serverly tarnished now and perception counts for a lot infront of a Lic board ask Spartan and IHUS.
6. Sometimes you need to wake up and smell the law suits.
7. There are plenty of other "New schools" with out all these problems so why expect anyone to even think of going there or staying there now?
8. Yes if Senegal can work things out with a new school and name then theres always a possibility that it will work out but look at #7.
9. this a board of free discussion and we should be able to to do that without explaining that on either side.

Good luck.

PS if you go to the school then you also have a responsability to the truth and to tell others the truth. We would be irresponsable to post euphoric posts about this school now, new people should read the statements and know how bad it is.

PathOne
03-30-2006, 11:36 AM
Let's see...the GMC does not use VMD to make official announcements. The ECFMG does not use VMD to make official annuncements. In fact, who does use VMD to make official announcements?

If you aren't in the loop it doesn't mean that everything you don't know is bogus.

OK. Let's see. I think we both agree that there's a significant difference between speculation and facts. Indeed, you yourself has written extensively on this exact topic:

http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophers-college-medicine/107783-reason.html

I did at no point infer that either the school or Senegal should make announcements on ValueMD. However, I pointed out the fact that neither has commented on this mess ANYWHERE.

Now, as a physician I usually deal in facts and/or logical deductions. Thus, I cannot, and do not, claim that St. Chris is dead. However, I must maintain that all this talk about Senegal taking over the school at present is mere speculation.

St. Chris is, and if it survives will continue to be, a business. Now, if Senegal, for whatever reason, would want to continue this business, it would make sense that the school is in the best shape possible, considering current circumstances.

However, I simply fail to see the logic behind a Senegalese takeover of St. Chris, for the following reasons:
1) IF Senegal wanted to run St. Chris, they could have forced the founder out a long time ago, as they held the charter. But apparently, they have waited until GMC lost patience and made a decision. To rescue St. Chris after such a damning decision simply makes no sense, as it will scare away many new and existing customers (students).
2) Senegal could have an interest in rescuing St. Chris, if the country saw chartering of medical schools as a major revenue source. However, I find it highly doubtful that a country with one of the poorest and most deficient healthcare systems in the world would want to get into the offshore medical school business.
3) The inability of Senegal to deal with the inquiries from GMC and ECFMG must be a huge cause of concern for anyone looking to Senegal as a savior of St. Chris. Either they had insufficient clout and experience to force out the exisiting management and deal with the problems in these past months, or they simply didn't care.
4) In business, it sometimes pays to let a company go down and start anew. But that makes no sense in regards to St. Chris if the school the entire time was an affiliate of a Senegalese university. Then, ultimately, Senegal must have responsibility. If not, then St. Chris has out-and-out lied the entire time, and in that case, it would only make business sense to kill off the school completely, and start an entire new medical school. This would put current students and grads in the worst possible situation (having attended an unchartered school) and again, I fail to see why Senegal would be so keen to go into the offshore medical school business.
5) Again remembering that St. Chris is a business venture, what assets can the school currently offer to Senegal? A charter? No, because Senegal can write all the charters they want to. A strong reputation? Not exactly. A strong alumni base? No, not really. Approval in states like NY and CA? Nope. A strong existing revenue stream? Not likely with current and planned transfers. An existing infrastructure and faculty? Yes. However, as has been proven many times in the Carib over the last years, it's not that difficult to secure facilities and faculty. So, even assuming that Senegal would indeed want to get into running offshore medical schools, why would they want to save St. Chris, rather than just start a new school?

In summation: No, I do not say that the school is dead, or that Senegal will not come to the rescue. However, I WILL say that it is speculation at best, and that no convincing statements or logical assumptions could lead one to believe that it is a viable option.

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 11:54 AM
OK. Let's see. I think we both agree that there's a significant difference between speculation and facts. Indeed, you yourself has written extensively on this exact topic:

http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophers-college-medicine/107783-reason.html

I did at no point infer that either the school or Senegal should make announcements on ValueMD. However, I pointed out the fact that neither has commented on this mess ANYWHERE.

Now, as a physician I usually deal in facts and/or logical deductions. Thus, I cannot, and do not, claim that St. Chris is dead. However, I must maintain that all this talk about Senegal taking over the school at present is mere speculation.

St. Chris is, and if it survives will continue to be, a business. Now, if Senegal, for whatever reason, would want to continue this business, it would make sense that the school is in the best shape possible, considering current circumstances.

However, I simply fail to see the logic behind a Senegalese takeover of St. Chris, for the following reasons:
1) IF Senegal wanted to run St. Chris, they could have forced the founder out a long time ago, as they held the charter. But apparently, they have waited until GMC lost patience and made a decision. To rescue St. Chris after such a damning decision simply makes no sense, as it will scare away many new and existing customers (students).
2) Senegal could have an interest in rescuing St. Chris, if the country saw chartering of medical schools as a major revenue source. However, I find it highly doubtful that a country with one of the poorest and most deficient healthcare systems in the world would want to get into the offshore medical school business.
3) The inability of Senegal to deal with the inquiries from GMC and ECFMG must be a huge cause of concern for anyone looking to Senegal as a savior of St. Chris. Either they had insufficient clout and experience to force out the exisiting management and deal with the problems in these past months, or they simply didn't care.
4) In business, it sometimes pays to let a company go down and start anew. But that makes no sense in regards to St. Chris if the school the entire time was an affiliate of a Senegalese university. Then, ultimately, Senegal must have responsibility. If not, then St. Chris has out-and-out lied the entire time, and in that case, it would only make business sense to kill off the school completely, and start an entire new medical school. This would put current students and grads in the worst possible situation (having attended an unchartered school) and again, I fail to see why Senegal would be so keen to go into the offshore medical school business.



Well it was posted that SENEGAL tried to deal with the school for 4 months over internal issues, tried to work with the admin. I see it as they finaly gave up and wanted to take complete control and out the current admin for noncompliance. Seems plausable. Also seems plausable that some of the money profited by the for profit school goes back to Senegal, from what I have read almost nothing did, seems like some funny business there. There is nothing wrong with Senegal wanting to set up a for profit Medical school, there are millions to be made, to a poor country millions are a lot, and it may also produce some home grown MDs as well, something that country needs.

We are from a world that deals in Billions and trillions of dollars not millions but they are in that world.

maximillian genossa
03-30-2006, 12:01 PM
I agree with Dean. his sources proved to be reliable since everything Deano claimed his sources were telling him turned out to be correct.





We shall see. By the way, the Senegal people who are there are not govt officials but rather individuals trying to get into the economic swing of things. Enough of the secrets, again as before I say we'll see what is going to happen. Your sources haven't been too good so far but mine have done fairly well.

OLDPRO
03-30-2006, 12:04 PM
I agree with Dean. his sources proved to be reliable since everything Deano claimed his sources were telling him turned out to be correct.

Yes on that one.............seems the mist has cleared

Miklos
03-30-2006, 12:07 PM
Also seems plausable that some of the money profited by the for profit school goes back to Senegal, from what I have read almost nothing did, seems like some funny business there. There is nothing wrong with Senegal wanting to set up a for profit Medical school, there are millions to be made, to a poor country millions are a lot, and it may also produce some home grown MDs as well, something that country needs.

Senegalese individuals (who may or may not be connected to the government) might be interested in this, however PathOne is probably correct in pointing out that the government of Senegal has no business running a for profit school in the UK.

microphage
03-30-2006, 12:11 PM
I agree with Dean. his sources proved to be reliable since everything Deano claimed his sources were telling him turned out to be correct.

He must have the ultra version of the magic 8 ball...

PathOne
03-30-2006, 12:42 PM
Well it was posted that SENEGAL tried to deal with the school for 4 months over internal issues, tried to work with the admin. I see it as they finaly gave up and wanted to take complete control and out the current admin for noncompliance. Seems plausable. Also seems plausable that some of the money profited by the for profit school goes back to Senegal, from what I have read almost nothing did, seems like some funny business there. There is nothing wrong with Senegal wanting to set up a for profit Medical school, there are millions to be made, to a poor country millions are a lot, and it may also produce some home grown MDs as well, something that country needs.

We are from a world that deals in Billions and trillions of dollars not millions but they are in that world.

While it's well known that come poor countries make money from medical schools, the proposed solution would create two Firsts in medical schooling:

1) The government of an independent country running a medical school in another independent country.
2) The government of an independent country running a for-profit medical school.

Really?

Other option is, that it's non-government Senegalese citizens that wants to run St. Chris. Offhand, I find it difficult to imagine that Senegal would have a whole lot of people, if any, with experience in running a medical school geared towards students that want to practise in North America or Europe. How exactly are they going to deal with the quality assurance concerns raised by the GMC? What contacts do they have at US hospitals for rotations and promotion of the school? How attractive is a "new" Senegalese-run St. Chris if GMC continues to clamp down on squatter schools?

Obviously, there's people eyeing the past rapidly rising cash-flows of St. Chris. However, even if the school survives, it will be with A LOT less students in the coming years. Who in Senegal has the financial muscles to fund the school until it's cash-flow positive again?

I still fail to see how this solution is an attractive business proposition.

Scott1981
03-30-2006, 01:15 PM
if st chris assets are frozen, who is paying vmd for their banner advertisements?

CorporateRaider
03-30-2006, 01:22 PM
I read somewhere that SCCM (Luton) has EIGHT HUNDRED STUDENTS. I suppose these are paying students. Want me to "clear" those doubts?

Tuition1: $8,000.00
Tuition2: $8,500.00

Tuition1 + Tuition2 = $16,500.00

$16,500 / 2 = Average

$16,500 / 2 = $8,250 or Tuition3

Let Tuition3 = $8,250

800 students x Tuition3 = $6,600,000.00 Avg.

$6,600,000.00 x 3 quarters = $19,800,000.00 Avg.

Now, for speculations sake, let's say that the King of B.S. as one poster so elegantly called him, was in fact, just B.S.'in .

Say there are only 300 students paying Tuition3; therefore we have:

300 students x Tuition3 = $2,475,000.00 Avg.

$2,475,000.00 X 3 quarters = $7,425,000.00

Batteries not included. (we still have not factored in other student service costs).


So, I see at least Seven Million reasons why.

Disclaimer: I am not saying that the Senegalese are acting for money and money alone. But, it does not hurt to make money, while providing a service, which is the basis of capitalism.






[quote=PathOne]However, I find it highly doubtful that a country with one of the poorest and most deficient healthcare systems in the world would want to get into the offshore medical school business.
quote]

jpryor
03-30-2006, 02:21 PM
I pointed out the fact that neither has commented on this mess ANYWHERE.

All that is important is that Senegal be in communication with the GMC and the ECFMG...and per each agency, that is occuring.


St. Chris is, and if it survives will continue to be, a business.

Not exactly accurate. The term 'was a business' is more accurate. The legal classification of the school from this point forward is part of the discussions.


1) IF Senegal wanted to run St. Chris, they could have forced the founder out a long time ago, as they held the charter. But apparently, they have waited until GMC lost patience and made a decision. To rescue St. Chris after such a damning decision simply makes no sense, as it will scare away many new and existing customers (students).

I'm assuming the use of 'Senegal" is shorthand for referencing the parent school, as the government of Senegal itself has no interest in running any school. The dean of the parent school has stated that there had been long-standing issues with the previous administration of the school. Admitedly, I'm more of an aggressor when dealing with recalcitrant business people and my opinion is that there has been a velvet glove approach to this matter--which I think was inappropriate. Nonetheless, when the opportunity arose for the parent school to use the charter as leverage, they took advantage. We all may argue the ethics of jeopardizing the students' in this manner and odds are we'd all be on the same side. The reality is that it happened and from the sidelines it would appear that there is a crisis. Oddly enough, although nobody is making any direct statements, there appears to be a cooperative machination between the GMC, ECFMG and Senegal (inferring the school and government) in reaching resolution. The sources of this information are NOT the previous administrators, but the representatives of the parent school.

There has been speculation and blatant assumptions that there was something amiss with the charter. That is not the case and has never been the case. There has been a discreet nuance of the reasoning behind allowing the events to unfold as they have, but offering that up here would just cause more controversey. If what I have heard is true, I could think of a number of better solutions, but they aren't letting me drive this train. But there has been this clear communication to the students: the dean of the parent school has met with the ECFMG and agreed to conduct a review of student records and verify certain information. That process is underway and from what I understand, this review is also something the GMC has requested.


2) Senegal could have an interest in rescuing St. Chris, if the country saw chartering of medical schools as a major revenue source. However, I find it highly doubtful that a country with one of the poorest and most deficient healthcare systems in the world would want to get into the offshore medical school business.

Again, Senegal is not involved in operating any school. The parent school has a valid economic interest in operating this school. It is really a simple business model. Logically, more people would attend a medical school in a First World country as opposed to a Third World country. A percentage of revenue from the First World school was intended to be provided to the Third World school. Therein became the problem between the previous administration and the parent school.


3) The inability of Senegal to deal with the inquiries from GMC and ECFMG must be a huge cause of concern for anyone looking to Senegal as a savior of St. Chris. Either they had insufficient clout and experience to force out the exisiting management and deal with the problems in these past months, or they simply didn't care.

Wrong assumptions completely. There are ongoing complex issues and the details of what is occuring are not being shared. I'm not going to blow smoke or try to predict anything, but I will state that the evolution of the GMC decisions was very interesting. Me being me, I'll offer my opinion that I think there is a collaborative effort going on behind the scenes. Can I attest to that? Nope. But watching the dance sure has been interesting.


4) In business, it sometimes pays to let a company go down and start anew. But that makes no sense in regards to St. Chris if the school the entire time was an affiliate of a Senegalese university. Then, ultimately, Senegal must have responsibility. If not, then St. Chris has out-and-out lied the entire time, and in that case, it would only make business sense to kill off the school completely, and start an entire new medical school. This would put current students and grads in the worst possible situation (having attended an unchartered school) and again, I fail to see why Senegal would be so keen to go into the offshore medical school business.

It may surprise you that the school is functioning, classes are being attended and exams were recently held. Contrary to the histrionics on VMD, the sky is not falling. Certainly, the students are concerned. The majority of them have nerves that are so shattered that every bump in the road is disquieting to them. Understandably, the previous administration's lies have left them jaded toward any comment about remaining calm. But the new administration and the representatives working on these matters have impeccable credentials that have already impressed the authorities and their approach to resolving these issues is calm, deliberate and above board. There are angry people everywhere with demands that things happen yesterday--but it isn't going to happen that way.


5) Again remembering that St. Chris is a business venture, what assets can the school currently offer to Senegal? A charter? No, because Senegal can write all the charters they want to. A strong reputation? Not exactly. A strong alumni base? No, not really. Approval in states like NY and CA? Nope. A strong existing revenue stream? Not likely with current and planned transfers. An existing infrastructure and faculty? Yes. However, as has been proven many times in the Carib over the last years, it's not that difficult to secure facilities and faculty. So, even assuming that Senegal would indeed want to get into running offshore medical schools, why would they want to save St. Chris, rather than just start a new school?

That is the easiest to answer. It's simple: an ethical obligation to the students. It sure would have been easier to let the school close, cut off all ties and start anew. The previous administration is/was trying to do just that. If all of those people who are taking pot shots at the school would be honest, they'd have to applaud the stance of the parent school. I think these are honorable men.


In summation: No, I do not say that the school is dead, or that Senegal will not come to the rescue. However, I WILL say that it is speculation at best, and that no convincing statements or logical assumptions could lead one to believe that it is a viable option.

In the absence of verifiable information from any reliable source, all discussions are speculation. That certainly hasn't stopped the visciousness on VMD. There will be pompous naysayers who will choose to attack my words here. So be it.

Miklos
03-30-2006, 02:56 PM
Duplicate post

Miklos
03-30-2006, 03:18 PM
I'm assuming the use of 'Senegal" is shorthand for referencing the parent school, as the government of Senegal itself has no interest in running any school. The dean of the parent school has stated that there had been long-standing issues with the previous administration of the school. Admitedly, I'm more of an aggressor when dealing with recalcitrant business people and my opinion is that there has been a velvet glove approach to this matter--which I think was inappropriate. Nonetheless, when the opportunity arose for the parent school to use the charter as leverage, they took advantage.
How do you square that with this?


It's simple: an ethical obligation to the students. It sure would have been easier to let the school close, cut off all ties and start anew. The previous administration is/was trying to do just that. If all of those people who are taking pot shots at the school would be honest, they'd have to applaud the stance of the parent school. I think these are honorable men.
Seriously?

They help create the problem, thereby placing the student's futures at risk and then come to 'save' the school?

Sounds like they took lessons in how to make friends and influence people from Slobodan Milosevic.


In the absence of verifiable information from any reliable source, all discussions are speculation. That certainly hasn't stopped the visciousness on VMD. There will be pompous naysayers who will choose to attack my words here. So be it.
For any questions regarding the above, please feel free to e-mail SCs new VMD representative: [email protected]

jpryor
03-30-2006, 03:31 PM
That's all you got out of that, huh? Are your thumbs in your ears and your tongue sticking out?

Miklos
03-30-2006, 03:45 PM
That's all you got out of that, huh? Are your thumbs in your ears and your tongue sticking out?
Seriously, do you work for these 'honorable men'? If I had a medical school that had charter problems, I'd hire you in a heartbeat.

Justifying their actions as you did in the post above is truly a work of art.

But, you haven't answered the basic question, except to hide behind phrases like "ongoing complex issues" and my personal favorite "parent school".

If the Senegalese precipitated the situation to force out the past administration (apparently due to a financial dispute), thereby jeopardizing the futures of the medical students, how can you then consider them honorable for "saving" the school?

Really?

jpryor
03-30-2006, 04:23 PM
Seriously, do you work for these 'honorable men'? If I had a medical school that had charter problems, I'd hire you in a heartbeat.

Your willingness to misconstrue in a futile effort to win an argument leads me to conclude there isn't much I'd consider employing you for. If you need your nose rubbed in it, I'll be happy to clip my own comments to show you how I clearly stated that I found their methods inappropriate. Don't think that just because you choose to ignore certain statements that others will, too.

Maybe your world is black and white. Such a pity. Yes, I find the Senegalese to be honorable. I have seen the credentials of the men they have brought in to resolve this problem and run the school. Yes, I find them honorable. I have seen their statements of assurance to the students. Yes, I find them honorable. I have seen the results of them following through on their promises. Yes, I find them honorable, as do the GMC and the ECFMG.

Contrive what you will. But if you want questioned answered, ponder this one: If the skeptics and you are right, why hasn't Senegal just closed the school?

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 04:51 PM
i honestly think jypor, you have ***** ***** ***** going on. your on going support of a school that has nothing to offer amazes me. Your justifications make no sence, unless ******************************* i dont understand. its written in stone:

NO GMC
NO ECFMG
St. chirs cant get loans because of ECFMG
the ADMIN people are *************
Senegal is a useless 3rd world country, and wont be able to set up ground in the UK once the school shuts down,because they have many problems of thier own
They have barly any enrollment for the May term (Information i have gotten form Mr. F in NJ)??
People in the Admin sueing each other for various things??
SHATTERED REP

TELL me at least one positive aspect of the school? use your head man. If the school were to survie it would have gotten everything settled in maybe 3 months, all the had to do was show a damn charter, but couldnt do that..yea i might seem like i am against the school...i was at one point a supporter for the school..i wore the same ugly cheerleading outfit that your sitting in now..but started to think clearly cause I ACTUALLY WENT there and see the corruption

I sit here and read your posts and for real i feel embarrassed for you..your logic is comdey it makes no sence.

jpryor
03-30-2006, 05:00 PM
TELL me at least one positive aspect of the school?

Hold the thought, Angel. I'll be back tomorrow to answer you, but I'm getting off line for the remainder of the night.

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 05:14 PM
---Message edited because of flaming and personal insults---

Bhoot
03-30-2006, 05:35 PM
As a current St. Chris student, I can tell you that JPryor is not affiliated with St. Chris in any form. He is a decent human being with more life experience than most of you who has offered his honest, unbiased opinions based on information he has. The fact is, he has no agenda against the school, so he is willing to look at the facts from outside, consider the human element of the students involved, and offer his opinions.

covertopz
03-30-2006, 05:37 PM
I keep seeing the question, "What does Senegal get out of saving the school?" .....well you do realize that their is a sister campus of St. Christopher's Iba Mar Diop in Senegal (which Luton St. Chris students can freely go to and from and vice versa) ...well the revenue made in Luton will be used to build upon both campuses...as it was originally planned to be done.

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 05:48 PM
I keep seeing the question, "What does Senegal get out of saving the school?" .....well you do realize that their is a sister campus of St. Christopher's Iba Mar Diop in Senegal (which Luton St. Chris students can freely go to and from and vice versa) ...well the revenue made in Luton will be used to build upon both campuses...as it was originally planned to be done.

Your information is not right. Luton St.Chris students can not freely go to the senegal campus because everything thier is taught in french. they dont even have a english program there its in french. the revenue built in the St.Chris luton campus is only buliding up the pockets of the owners...if you have ever seen the pictures of the so called "Senegal campus" it looks like a ...out house..maybe a little nicer. so i really do not think any money is going there.

PathOne
03-30-2006, 05:51 PM
jpryor, thank you for a rather eloquent rebuttal. Let's see what happens in the future. I will continue to be sceptical, but we'll let events and facts decide who'll be right in the end. Hopefully, whatever the outcome, the uncertainty will be short-lived.

covertopz
03-30-2006, 06:13 PM
Your information is not right. Luton St.Chris students can not freely go to the senegal campus because everything thier is taught in french. they dont even have a english program there its in french. the revenue built in the St.Chris luton campus is only buliding up the pockets of the owners...if you have ever seen the pictures of the so called "Senegal campus" it looks like a ...out house..maybe a little nicer. so i really do not think any money is going there.

:shock: just because its in french does not mean that students cant go freely in between the classes. Some people do speak more than one language and suprisingly one of them may be french.

And if you actually read my post, i was talking about the incentive Senegal has in saving the luton campus for the FUTURE to aid in building up the the senegal campus....ah its pointless posting on this site...

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 06:21 PM
:shock: just because its in french does not mean that students cant go freely in between the classes. Some people do speak more than one language and suprisingly one of them may be french.

And if you actually read my post, i was talking about the incentive Senegal has in saving the luton campus for the FUTURE to aid in building up the the senegal campus....ah its pointless posting on this site...

o.k first of all relax dont have a heart attack..if you speak more than one language yea then it may be benifical for you too go to the out house in senegal and sit in some of the classes. but the MAJORITY of students dont speak french so therefor it would be pointless to "go freely in between teh classes" and i dont think..i might be wrong though..that any student from the luton campus has gone to senegal to study or to walk throught the classes.

hydatiform
03-30-2006, 06:31 PM
I'm


o.k first of all relax dont have a heart attack..if you speak more than one language yea then it may be benifical for you too go to the out house in senegal and sit in some of the classes. but the MAJORITY of students dont speak french so therefor it would be pointless to "go freely in between teh classes" and i dont think..i might be wrong though..that any student from the luton campus has gone to senegal to study or to walk throught the classes.

I'm sure they've considered. Because that was one option given to them when L was kicked out. But come ON... who wants to go to Senegal?? You're better off in the Carib. :rolleyes: But know that the option was GIVEN.

angel_fyre
03-30-2006, 06:37 PM
why would anyone want to go to a war torn country..for St.Chris students the carribean or another eastern european country would be a way better option then africa

hydatiform
03-30-2006, 06:40 PM
However, just to be clear. Africa can easily compete with Europe in their share of prestigious medical schools with a reputable and rich history. Unfortunately, the Senegalese school in question doesn't fit the category. That doesn't mean that it won't in years to come.

why would anyone want to go to a war torn country..for St.Chris students the carribean or another eastern european country would be a way better option then africa

PathOne
03-30-2006, 07:01 PM
However, just to be clear. Africa can easily compete with Europe in their share of prestigious medical schools with a reputable and rich history. Unfortunately, the Senegalese school in question doesn't fit the category. That doesn't mean that it won't in years to come.

Only fairly good schools I've heard about is in Egypt and South Africa, possibly Morocco. However, I certainly hope that medical training and the entire health system in all of sub-Saharan Africa is vastly improved in the coming years. It is, unfortunately, currently wholly inadequate.

hydatiform
03-30-2006, 09:28 PM
Just because you haven't heard of any others does not mean they do not exist. The current state of Africa probably has more to do with economic disparity than lack of good medical schools... but I digress.

###
03-30-2006, 10:18 PM
.............

studentMD
03-30-2006, 10:28 PM
wasnt st marys in tijuana and el paso for a bit?

PathOne
03-30-2006, 10:32 PM
Agree about the location issue. However, it seems that the one chance that St. Chris has of survival (at least the only one that those affiliated with St. Chris mention here) is that someone from Senegal will take over the school. Personally, I doubt this option, but I can't rule out it will happen. However, if it doesn't happen, it seems that there's not really a plan B, so that'll probably be the end of the school.

That, obviously, would be the worst possible scenario for current students and grads. IF St. Chris should close without having resolved the charter issue with GMC and ECFMG before a possible closure, any courses and all diplomas from St. Chris would in effect be worthless, as students and grads will be unable to prove that they attended a chartered school.

So seen in that context, it is certainly understandable that St. Chris students and grads are pinning their hope on the Senegalese. Only time will tell if that hope is founded in reality.

Miklos
03-31-2006, 05:22 AM
Your willingness to misconstrue in a futile effort to win an argument leads me to conclude there isn't much I'd consider employing you for. If you need your nose rubbed in it, I'll be happy to clip my own comments to show you how I clearly stated that I found their methods inappropriate. Don't think that just because you choose to ignore certain statements that others will, too.

Maybe your world is black and white. Such a pity. Yes, I find the Senegalese to be honorable. I have seen the credentials of the men they have brought in to resolve this problem and run the school. Yes, I find them honorable. I have seen their statements of assurance to the students. Yes, I find them honorable. I have seen the results of them following through on their promises. Yes, I find them honorable, as do the GMC and the ECFMG.

Contrive what you will. But if you want questioned answered, ponder this one: If the skeptics and you are right, why hasn't Senegal just closed the school?
I'm sorry, but I don't see any honor in what looks like a business deal (at its essence a charter for money) gone bad, especially as the students are being held hostage.

Regarding the actions and motivations of the Senegalese, I suspect that they are motivated principally by their own personal financial considerations.

Feel free to call me a cynic.

Blocks81
03-31-2006, 12:47 PM
so what does this injunction mean that PL has merged or formed an alliance with MUA belize? i bet PL is probably sipping coolattas in Belize right now. does this injunction even matter now?

futrphysician
04-11-2006, 11:47 PM
Yes, it matters a lot. US actions are pending and the judges there seem interested in Mr. L's business dealings in the UK.

teratos
04-12-2006, 08:18 AM
People's credentials do not make them honorable. I remember a certain man who held, argueably, the most prestegious job in the world doing some very dishonorable things with an intern in the Oval Office. he and his wife also had a stake in some questionable business ventures. G

MDXRS22
04-12-2006, 09:16 AM
Yeah. You may attach my name to the above statement.
I would do it again!;)

AUCMD2006
04-12-2006, 11:28 AM
People's credentials do not make them honorable. I remember a certain man who held, argueably, the most prestegious job in the world doing some very dishonorable things with an intern in the Oval Office. he and his wife also had a stake in some questionable business ventures. G


as well as the current office with closed meetings on energy policy amongst other things. the intern deal is of social interest nothing more. i would pay an intern to provide some "stress releif" to pres as wellas the entire cabinet rigfht now, maybe they would lighten up

Plexus01
04-12-2006, 08:58 PM
All I've read here are vicious attacks towards the officials from my school. What is your vested interest in bashing our school and it's administration. You coin the words crook and lier. You don't here any SCCOM students or alumni resonating any of your sentiments. Wonder Why? I guess none you are in that in that category,fortunately for us.
Just what is your REAL motivation here? It certainly is'nt the student bodies interest you have in mind. So what is your motivation?? HMMMMMM. We really would like to know. Forget the obvious rhetorical attacks. Reveal your true agendas for all of us to witness!!!

Plexus01
04-12-2006, 10:52 PM
Covertopz, what you are witnessing is a blatant agenda by a few to hurt the Saint Christopher's College reputation and student body. Many of us who have been sitting back and observing these calculated and viscious attacks, have now felt compelled to finally speak out. The fate of our school does not lie in the hands of these individuals who attend or even possibly own some of these other off shore medical schools. That is why we as a student body should speak out now when we witness such reckless and irresponsible accusations being waged. One thing you should observe is that the remarks being posted are by Non-Saint Chris students. What does that tell you about the credibility and the motives behind these posts you are reading? Concentrate on your studies and your boards, that is what's important!!!!

Miklos
04-13-2006, 02:11 AM
Concentrate on your studies and your boards, that is what's important!!!!

Good advice.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as of very recently the ECFMG wasn't accepting registrations from SC students. Now, the question seems to be which SC will give them opportunities to take the boards, right?

teratos
04-13-2006, 06:32 AM
Covertopz, what you are witnessing is a blatant agenda by a few to hurt the Saint Christopher's College reputation and student body. Many of us who have been sitting back and observing these calculated and viscious attacks, have now felt compelled to finally speak out. The fate of our school does not lie in the hands of these individuals who attend or even possibly own some of these other off shore medical schools. That is why we as a student body should speak out now when we witness such reckless and irresponsible accusations being waged. One thing you should observe is that the remarks being posted are by Non-Saint Chris students. What does that tell you about the credibility and the motives behind these posts you are reading? Concentrate on your studies and your boards, that is what's important!!!!
You speak as if the accusations are unfounded. If that were the cas, the GMC wouldn'thave balck-listed you, the ECFMG would be letting you take your boards. Senegal would not have severed ties with the former SC admin, and there would be no lawsuit brough about by the students of SC. So, while non-SC people may not have the insight that you do, there is certainly plenty of ammunition. Some of you guys sound like everything would be fine if people didn't post stuff on VMD. G

AUCMD2006
04-13-2006, 08:12 AM
here we go again. same kind of tactic as 3 years ago. if the accusations are unfounded where is the proof?

there is so much about SC that is not clear. admin was always less than clear on policies even blacking out faculty credentials at the begining, where is the humanitarian aid in senegal (no one has shown proof), are there any students at the main campus, what is the oversight senegal is providing, is there really a charter...

these are some of the 'baseless' accusations that have never been answered...you can add the "affiliation" to kings how sc students were really luton students, misleading pics on the website, and so much more...

you guys as students deserve better and should demand more accountability from your school. it shouldn't be outsiders and an egg farmer askint these questions..it should come from within but the only thing that prominent SC students have done so far is help admin build their house of cards

but then again your post doesn't sound like a student does it?

Plexus01
04-13-2006, 04:00 PM
I agree entirely,before anyone invests hundreds of thousands of dollars in a foreign education, they should pay a visit to the list of options. I for one visited, Ross,AUC, and Saba. Ross at the time was my first choice,however my ex who now is in her residency at Stony Brook hospital in New York discouraged me. Her class at the beginning of the prgram consisted of 280 some od students and by the time she reached fifth semester,only 68 students remained from the initial 280+ from the first semester. Also,I spent an entire semester with her in Portsmouth, and I have to tell you it was rough living. AUC was beautiful had great facilities,but had issues with the Government Loans due to some disagreement with the St.MAArtin Government. Saba had primitive facilities. The ceilings were leaking everytime it rained and the gross anatomy lab was just awful.There was absolutley no ventilation. By the way Ross had state of the art labs as did AUC. I chose Saint Chris because, #1 the facilities and teaching in Luton was exceptional as well at the living condition,plus traveling around Europe on break was fun.

dt
04-13-2006, 07:36 PM
I agree entirely,before anyone invests hundreds of thousands of dollars in a foreign education, they should pay a visit to the list of options. I for one visited, Ross,AUC, and Saba. Ross at the time was my first choice,however my ex who now is in her residency at Stony Brook hospital in New York discouraged me. Her class at the beginning of the prgram consisted of 280 some od students and by the time she reached fifth semester,only 68 students remained from the initial 280+ from the first semester. Also,I spent an entire semester with her in Portsmouth, and I have to tell you it was rough living. AUC was beautiful had great facilities,but had issues with the Government Loans due to some disagreement with the St.MAArtin Government. Saba had primitive facilities. The ceilings were leaking everytime it rained and the gross anatomy lab was just awful.There was absolutley no ventilation. By the way Ross had state of the art labs as did AUC. I chose Saint Chris because, #1 the facilities and teaching in Luton was exceptional as well at the living condition,plus traveling around Europe on break was fun.


Yeah, and now look at the problems you may have with licensure.

microphage
04-13-2006, 09:03 PM
Yeah, and now look at the problems you may have with licensure.

but some people think licensing is a small price to pay for living the good live... :p

AUCMD2006
04-13-2006, 09:12 PM
Yeah, and now look at the problems you may have with licensure.

thats not a fair statement. this student made the effort to try and make an informed choice by doing what all of us say to do, visit the schools. the reasoning is sound and they obviously liked the SC set up in luton. most people said the set up and profs were ok, especially at the end. the only thing they didn't take into account was the charter issue and face it, how many of us know that much when we start out looking at schools? this person made a choice based on what they saw at the time.

pruritis_ani
04-13-2006, 09:25 PM
thats not a fair statement. this student made the effort to try and make an informed choice by doing what all of us say to do, visit the schools. the reasoning is sound and they obviously liked the SC set up in luton. most people said the set up and profs were ok, especially at the end. the only thing they didn't take into account was the charter issue and face it, how many of us know that much when we start out looking at schools? this person made a choice based on what they saw at the time.

Well, I personally think that most of us should realize that basing your decision on such superficialities is short sighted at best...

Regardless, the poster makes a great example of what NOT to look for in a med school. Things like the quality of the buildings seem pretty silly when you are 200k in debt without a job.

All future med students should read this...when picking a med school, first be sure that you can get licensed ANYWHERE in the US, and be sure that there are actual grads with licenses to prove it. Make a list of the schools that offer that. Then pick the school with the nicest logo, or the best AC, but pick it out of the group of good schools. Save you a lot of trouble in the end...

Plexus01
04-15-2006, 10:14 AM
Hi Miklos,
Your right! I spoke with Bill ***** at the ECFMG yesterday, and that's exactly what he told me. Apparently it's suppose to be resolved in the next couple of weeks, :confused: we hope....

pruritis_ani
04-15-2006, 11:06 AM
Hi Miklos,
Your right! I spoke with Bill ***** at the ECFMG yesterday, and that's exactly what he told me. Apparently it's suppose to be resolved in the next couple of weeks, :confused: we hope....

"It will be resolved in the next couple of weeks" should be the school's motto.

BTW, when they say it should be resolved, that does NOT neccesarily mean it will be resolved in favor of SC, or in the manner you hope it will. While I wouldn't be surprised to see SC students eligible to sit the USMLE (as those requirements are absolutely minimal), I would be surprised to see SC have much luck in the state licensing realm.

Why, may I ask, are you there "hoping" for a resolution? Doesn't it seem wiser to get out, and recieve an education that is not forever dependent on some rather ambitious hopes?

Skipper
04-16-2006, 01:57 PM
I agree entirely,before anyone invests hundreds of thousands of dollars in a foreign education, they should pay a visit to the list of options. I for one visited, Ross,AUC, and Saba. Ross at the time was my first choice,however my ex who now is in her residency at Stony Brook hospital in New York discouraged me. Her class at the beginning of the prgram consisted of 280 some od students and by the time she reached fifth semester,only 68 students remained from the initial 280+ from the first semester. Also,I spent an entire semester with her in Portsmouth, and I have to tell you it was rough living. AUC was beautiful had great facilities,but had issues with the Government Loans due to some disagreement with the St.MAArtin Government. Saba had primitive facilities. The ceilings were leaking everytime it rained and the gross anatomy lab was just awful.There was absolutley no ventilation. By the way Ross had state of the art labs as did AUC. I chose Saint Chris because, #1 the facilities and teaching in Luton was exceptional as well at the living condition,plus traveling around Europe on break was fun.


probably should of went to ross, sgu, or auc---dont you think?

skipper

empathy
12-18-2006, 05:17 PM
Same here. Please consider untacking this.







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