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azskeptic
03-24-2006, 01:33 PM
http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/how_to_register/registration/acceptable_primary_medical_qualifications.asp

MrC
03-24-2006, 01:55 PM
Really bad news for current and past students, however probably good news for patient saftey by ensuring there are adequate quality assurance arrangments in place.

PathOne
03-24-2006, 01:58 PM
Ouch! Looks like a pretty permanent ban on St. Chris, and also an effective clampdown on squatter schools in the UK. I guess it could also have repercussions in regards to ECFMG, since St. Chris has apparently been unable to verify their affiliation to St. Chris in Senegal, which holds the charter. So it will at best be grads from St. Chris in Senegal who can claim WHO/IMED listing, but not St. Chris in Luton. Unfortunately very bad news for both grads and current students.

PathOne
03-24-2006, 02:11 PM
Actually, reading the GMC notice again, it's apparently not only a matter of affiliation, but also of the Senegalese charter itself. I notice, that they're disallowing ALL grads of St. Chris in Dakar, Senegal AND disallowing grads who has attended St. Chris in Luton (looking under the "UK-based medical colleges" link... How can the leaders and owners of St. Chris have been so irresponsible? Now a fair number of people will have an essentially completely worthless medical degree (at least in the UK, but things don't look too good in the US either).

marconim
03-24-2006, 02:19 PM
Really bad news for current and past students, however probably good news for patient saftey by ensuring there are adequate quality assurance arrangments in place.

I spoke to a friend (british citizen), and the GMC has told him that if he were to finish his clinicals at a gmc accredited school, meaning dipoloma in hand from that school (with transfer credits from SC) he could sit the PLAB.

So all is not lost and i know this will make many sad and angry!!!!!!!

doctor1day
03-24-2006, 02:21 PM
Hi

I posted my first message about a week ago regarding GMC'S desicion not to recognise st chris. The message is in the thread "my call with GMC -bad news".

There were the usual st chris reps determined as ever for a fight, ridiculing my comment. well whats happened.

to all those students who had the warnings so many times yet went to this place, all i can say is you were warned but were fooled by theives who stole your money.

time you demand an explanation from the admin, that is ofcourse if they are still there monday morning.

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 02:22 PM
Actually, reading the GMC notice again, it's apparently not only a matter of affiliation, but also of the Senegalese charter itself. I notice, that they're disallowing ALL grads of St. Chris in Dakar, Senegal AND disallowing grads who has attended St. Chris in Luton (looking under the "UK-based medical colleges" link... How can the leaders and owners of St. Chris have been so irresponsible? Now a fair number of people will have an essentially completely worthless medical degree (at least in the UK, but things don't look too good in the US either).
Not really just St. Chris and St. Luke, they will consider the defunked Kiegezi grads? WOW Does not look good. Even if Senegal takes over the school what ever, the name will stick to this I think. The game may be over for the school.

PathOne
03-24-2006, 02:24 PM
I spoke to a friend (british citizen), and the GMC has told him that if he were to finish his clinicals at a gmc accredited school, meaning dipoloma in hand from that school (with transfer credits from SC) he could sit the PLAB.

So all is not lost and i know this will make many sad and angry!!!!!!!

That sounds plausible, at least as far as GMC is concerned. More important for most St. Chris students, however, is what happens in the US. If St. Chris Luton isn't deemed part of St. Chris Senegal, which holds the charter, they should be able to get ECFMG certification if they transfer to another school. However, post residency, when they have to seek a license, they could have courses taken at a non-WHO/IMED listed medical school (if affiliation to Senegal is unproven), which could be a severe headache.

doctor1day
03-24-2006, 02:28 PM
wheres BTS. INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY

marconim
03-24-2006, 02:28 PM
That sounds plausible, at least as far as GMC is concerned. More important for most St. Chris students, however, is what happens in the US. If St. Chris Luton isn't deemed part of St. Chris Senegal, which holds the charter, they should be able to get ECFMG certification if they transfer to another school. However, post residency, when they have to seek a license, they could have courses taken at a non-WHO/IMED listed medical school (if affiliation to Senegal is unproven), which could be a severe headache.


Very valid points

All I know is that the ECFMG has sent emails to students that credits prior to investigation are valid!

PathOne
03-24-2006, 02:36 PM
Very valid points

All I know is that the ECFMG has sent emails to students that credits prior to investigation are valid!

The situation in the US is much more complicated than in the UK, now. In addition to the unknown factor which is if ECFMG will uphold its current suspension, there's the issue of how the individual state licensing boards will view courses and/or degrees from St. Chris Luton. This may very well vary from state to state, but is a huge uncertainty, as even residents with ECFMG certification can't be sure that they can be licensed. Furthermore, again regardless of what the final position of the ECFMG will be, there's probably more than one state licensing board that's going to be concerned about the fact that the licensing authority in the country of training (GMC in UK) has banned graduates, citing BOTH charter issues and lack of quality assurance standards.

This is a frightful mess.

marconim
03-24-2006, 02:40 PM
The situation in the US is much more complicated than in the UK, now. In addition to the unknown factor which is if ECFMG will uphold its current suspension, there's the issue of how the individual state licensing boards will view courses and/or degrees from St. Chris Luton. This may very well vary from state to state, but is a huge uncertainty, as even residents with ECFMG certification can't be sure that they can be licensed. Furthermore, again regardless of what the final position of the ECFMG will be, there's probably more than one state licensing board that's going to be concerned about the fact that the licensing authority in the country of training (GMC in UK) has banned graduates, citing BOTH charter issues and lack of quality assurance standards.

This is a frightful mess.

All points are valid.
I'm not a cheerleader, but I feel terrible for these students.
However, there are always options.

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 03:00 PM
one more thing they are also allowing the infamous Grace medschool in the UK and IUHS to register, along with the Russian medschools

WOW

maximillian genossa
03-24-2006, 03:06 PM
I called St. Chris office in NJ and it was fascinating to see how they were simply playing the dumb card. I possed as an investigative reporter and asked if they had any reaction to the adverse decision by the GMC today. The secretary transferred me to a soft spoken guy who refused to identify himself and flat out denied that they were unaware of any rulings against them. He also attempted to deny any investigations, and I told him "I am reading it from the GMC website as we speak sir." "Furthermore", I told him, "this is being going on since, at least October." Then he admitted about the investigation , asked me to read the paragraph and abruptly said..."well we have not been notified, we don't know anything about that, thanks for your call". When I asked him if he had any reaction, he said, "no, we don't know whats going on."When I asked his name again, he said thanks and hung up.

Some deal, some deal.








one more thing they are also allowing the infamous Grace medschool in the UK and IUHS to register, along with the Russian medschools

WOW

azskeptic
03-24-2006, 03:10 PM
I called St. Chris office in NJ and it was fascinating to see how they were simply playing the dumb card. I possed as an investigative reporter and the secretary transferred me to a soft spoken guy who refused to identify himself and flat out denied that they were unaware of any rulings against them. He also attempted to deny any investigations, and I told him I am reading it from the GMC website as we speak. "Furthermore", I told him, "this is being going on since, at least October." Then he admitted about the investigation , asked me to read the paragraph and abruptly said..."well we have not been notified, we don't know anything about that, thanks for your call". When I asked him if he had any reaction, he said, "no, we don't know whats going on."When I asked his name again, he said thanks and hung up.

Some deal, some deal. Not sure of all of the ramifications but your phone call shows that the information flow isn't super in NJ. That they had to hear it from a guy in the US who read it,posted by an eggman who is at an egg meeting in London says it all. Good post. Max

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 03:11 PM
I called St. Chris office in NJ and it was fascinating to see how they were simply playing the dumb card. I possed as an investigative reporter and the secretary transferred me to a soft spoken guy who refused to identify himself and flat out denied that they were unaware of any rulings against them. He also attempted to deny any investigations, and I told him I am reading it from the GMC website as we speak. "Furthermore", I told him, "this is being going on since, at least October." Then he admitted about the investigation , asked me to read the paragraph and abruptly said..."well we have not been notified, we don't know anything about that, thanks for your call". When I asked him if he had any reaction, he said, "no, we don't know whats going on."When I asked his name again, he said thanks and hung up.

Some deal, some deal.
All I can say is that the school is in a whirlwind of problems right now as it appears. I'm going by a friend or two and what I know from going there last year it seems there are many things going on and I feel that events at the school will esculate this coming week and more will come to light. This is a school where the Admin kept things from the students and told the students what they wanted to hear, true or not true.

Duncan MacLeod
03-24-2006, 03:12 PM
Not a lot new here. This is basically saying that since they have not recieved the type of information they have asked for, whatever doubts/questions they have still exist and as such, they will not allow registration currently. Makes sense. This is not legislation. And based on the other schools that they will entertain on a case by case basis,should St. Chris ever get it's act together I would fully expect them to be taken off of the one this and put on the other, sans drama.

Mr. Skeptic, you can now go clean yourself up....

azskeptic
03-24-2006, 03:13 PM
Not a lot new here. This is basically saying that since they have not recieved the type of information they have asked for, whatever doubts/questions they have still exist and as such, they will not allow registration currently. Makes sense. This is not legislation. And based on the other schools that they will entertain on a case by case basis,should St. Chris ever get it's act together I would fully expect them to be taken off of the one this and put on the other, sans drama.

Mr. Skeptic, you can now go clean yourelf up had my shower, drinking a diet coke. all is well. Thanks for your personal concern.

MDXRS22
03-24-2006, 03:36 PM
Wow!!!!!
Death penalty........

empathy
03-24-2006, 05:25 PM
NHS didn't shut them down. If they operate from here on out honestly and abide by they rules -- they can get back in the GMC's good graces can't they?

Blocks81
03-24-2006, 06:07 PM
as soon as crooks like mr or doctor L---- of whatever the heck is name is is gone along with his geeky sidekick mr. B--- then st chris will take one step forward in the right direction:D

SteveS
03-24-2006, 06:25 PM
We've been talking with a United States law firm about suing to be able to take the boards and suing for all of our money back. We have to do something and we have to do it fast. Who is going to join us?

empathy
03-24-2006, 06:47 PM
they own the school silly. You are acting like it is two separate entities. They created, own and manage St. Chris. Your money goes into their bank accounts. They ARE St. Chris. It's not like when you went to high school and the school was run by city and state. St. Chris is a BUSINESS and they are the OWNERS.


as soon as crooks like mr or doctor L---- of whatever the heck is name is is gone along with his geeky sidekick mr. B--- then st chris will take one step forward in the right direction:D

teratos
03-24-2006, 06:54 PM
We've been talking with a United States law firm about suing to be able to take the boards and suing for all of our money back. We have to do something and we have to do it fast. Who is going to join us?
I don't think you will be successful in suing to take the boards. Suing to get your money back would have a better chance, since the school implied that you would be able to take the boards, and didn't come through (if, in fact, that is the final outcome). The problem will be WHO is going to give all of your your money back? G

CorporateRaider
03-24-2006, 07:06 PM
If this is the legal advice a "U.S. Law Firm" gave you, then you need to sue the law firm.




We've been talking with a United States law firm about suing to be able to take the boards and suing for all of our money back. We have to do something and we have to do it fast. Who is going to join us?

angel_fyre
03-24-2006, 07:12 PM
i was wondering is this ruling written in stone? is it subjected to change still?

empathy
03-24-2006, 07:26 PM
Go back and read the BBC article and ask yourself, "if, I ran the GMC would my ruling on St. Chris be final?" The school used Senegal for a charter, went to England, claimed to be a US Run School, lied to students, and are now in a real pickle. I'm sorry students are caught in the middle - they are the 'real' victims here.


i was wondering is this ruling written in stone? is it subjected to change still?

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 07:56 PM
Go back and read the BBC article and ask yourself, "if, I ran the GMC would my ruling on St. Chris be final?" The school used Senegal for a charter, went to England, claimed to be a US Run School, lied to students, and are now in a real pickle. I'm sorry students are caught in the middle - they are the 'real' victims here.
Yea but Senegal can do what they want and if the student body is behind them with the Professors they can have a school I would think.

It's Senegal's school not the "ST. Chris Corporation" they are separate.

azskeptic
03-24-2006, 08:00 PM
Yea but Senegal can do what they want and if the student body is behind them with the Professors they can have a school I would think.

It's Senegal's school not the "ST. Chris Corporation" they are separate. Can you trust the Senegal folks too? Here we go again.......

empathy
03-24-2006, 08:19 PM
Let me get this straight...YOU want the students to put their faith in the government of a THIRD WORLD country. Senegal is known for corruption and diploma mills. They might step forward and the admin step back into the shadows but you can bet it will be the same group of people running the show. This is just more spin.......


Yea but Senegal can do what they want and if the student body is behind them with the Professors they can have a school I would think.

It's Senegal's school not the "ST. Chris Corporation" they are separate.

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 09:01 PM
Let me get this straight...YOU want the students to put their faith in the government of a THIRD WORLD country. Senegal is known for corruption and diploma mills. They might step forward and the admin step back into the shadows but you can bet it will be the same group of people running the show. This is just more spin.......
Look you can't come on here now and tell me if the a "new school" is properly set up by Senegal like it should have been you will continue to say it is wrong? I think that is just too much. You have posted if Senegal this and if Senegal that, then....... Do you want the other people who read this to believe you care about the students because I see it as a good alternative and a proper one, Grace Medical school who has set up shop in the UK has been given the OK by the GMC and they have changed charter at least twice and moved now three times. How do you explain that the GMC has ok'd them? And I do not go to this school nor care ever to. Not trying to spin a darn thing but what I have said. I see you spininng though, you think anyone who has gone, is going to this school as spininng but i gotta tell you I'm just a student who made a bad choice once, was led in by promises and left and still I have no chip on my shoulder.

BTW I see the current students with little choices, they may be able to transfer or not I also think that events may cause other problems and that may end the debate once and for all, sad but true, I'm a medical student and I feel for them. This sucks big time, some may have to start all over again at another school if they can.

Empathy seems like you told us once you were "taken in by stories" once too. Funny how you can make a mistake and be righteous but we who were taken in also can't be. Double standard?

maximillian genossa
03-24-2006, 09:06 PM
Sue to be able to take the boards? The only way you can do this is by suing the ECFMG, NBME or GMC, and as far as we all know, it is not their fault that your school decided to lie or misrepresent themselves not only to you but to them as well. Honestly, I don't see that happening. What makes you believe a board can be forced to accept a student from schools they do not recognize or deem inadequate? NBME, ECFMG, FAIMER, GMC, NONE of them are liable, and they are not at fault and I do not think their lawyers will sit down and twiddle their thumbs and let that happen. There is no legal basis to force them to accept your schools credentials. Not a good chance, but you can always try, as ridiculous as it sounds.

St. Chris? Plausible and possible, most likely all their assets hidden offshore. That is your best shot because it was THEIR lies that got you into this hot spot.

They have an office in NJ; you can file a complaint through the NJ attorney general's office as well as the FTC. They used the Internet to recruit students and they used phone lines to engage in recruiting and lie to all of you. You may ask your law firm how wire fraud would apply.


Good luck

GM










We've been talking with a United States law firm about suing to be able to take the boards and suing for all of our money back. We have to do something and we have to do it fast. Who is going to join us?

maximillian genossa
03-24-2006, 09:16 PM
When I read the report, the Grace they accept on an individual basis is the version of Grace from Belize (non existent anymore), not the UK version. Check your facts.






Look you can't come on here now and tell me if the a "new school" is properly set up by Senegal like it should have been you will continue to say it is wrong? I think that is just too much. You have posted if Senegal this and if Senegal that, then....... Do you want the other people who read this to believe you care about the students because I see it as a good alternative and a proper one, Grace Medical school who has set up shop in the UK has been given the OK by the GMC and they have changed charter at least twice and moved now three times. How do you explain that the GMC has ok'd them? And I do not go to this school nor care ever to. Not trying to spin a darn thing but what I have said. I have no chip on my shoulder.

BTW I see the current students with little choices, they may be able to transfer or not I also think that events may cause other problems and that may end the debate once and for all, sad but true, I'm a medical student and I feel for them. This sucks big time, some may have to start all over again at another school if they can.

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 09:22 PM
When I read the report, the Grace they accept on an individual basis is the version of Grace from Belize (non existent anymore), not the UK version. Check your facts. Uh the Grace in the UK is/was chartered in Belize facts checked. (I know cause when they opened up there I checked the charter they had, I do not know if it is still open) Also every other school on that list is questionable except for Krigezi.

empathy
03-24-2006, 09:25 PM
Whuds so where are you getting your info about this 'new school'. I remember a time when you were spreading other info via ValueMD. You started talking about how St. Chris was suing the BBC for their report and then you went to the Relaxing Lounge and said you were going to spend your vacation finding and posting proof that the BBC is wrong sometimes. You gave a lot of students false hope then just as you are now. You have posted what 2 or 3 threads now talking about this 'new school'. We get it...you want to get the word out. Get back on the fence.


Look you can't come on here now and tell me if the a "new school" is properly set up by Senegal like it should have been you will continue to say it is wrong? I think that is just too much. You have posted if Senegal this and if Senegal that, then....... Do you want the other people who read this to believe you care about the students because I see it as a good alternative and a proper one, Grace Medical school who has set up shop in the UK has been given the OK by the GMC and they have changed charter at least twice and moved now three times. How do you explain that the GMC has ok'd them? And I do not go to this school nor care ever to. Not trying to spin a darn thing but what I have said. I see you spininng though, you think anyone who has gone, is going to this school as spininng but i gotta tell you I'm just a student who made a bad choice once, was led in by promises and left and still I have no chip on my shoulder.

BTW I see the current students with little choices, they may be able to transfer or not I also think that events may cause other problems and that may end the debate once and for all, sad but true, I'm a medical student and I feel for them. This sucks big time, some may have to start all over again at another school if they can.

maximillian genossa
03-24-2006, 09:26 PM
Where did you checked your facts the local yellow pages? Check IMED, under Belize, NOTES.

http://imed.ecfmg.org/details.asp?country=166&school=&currpage=1&cname=BELIZE&city=&region=CA&rname=Central+America%2FCaribbean&mcode=166030&psize=25

It says this...
Grace University School of Medicine was previously located in St. Kitts-Nevis. According to the Government of Belize website, "The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the Government of Belize and Grace School of Medicine, made on the 4th day of December, 2000 has been terminated by the Government of Belize. This termination took effect on 17th December, 2004. With effect from the said date, the School no longer exists in Belize."
Re-check your facts.

Uh the Grace in the UK is charteres in Belize facts checked.

pruritis_ani
03-24-2006, 09:34 PM
Putting faith in Senegal seems awfully foolish at this point. One has to wonder if all of the corruption and lies that are coming out at this point are truly one sided. While I have no doubt that the admin of St Chris are very much to blame, I would hesitate to assume that the Senegalese are truly innocent, and really just care about the students.

It is obviously all about money in this game, and both parties are using the students as pawns.

St Chris students don't seem to have a lot of great options. Transfering may be ok, but in the future the St Chris credits may cause licensing headaches. Going with a new Senegalese school would have the same issues, plus the risk of trusting a group of people that may well have led to the current ugly situation. Following Mr. L is pretty much the dumbest idea I have ever heard of...

What to do? Sad to say, but get the hell into a real school and start over. Repeating 1-3 years of med school now is a lot better than simply postponing the headaches until after a residency is done.

empathy
03-24-2006, 09:35 PM
be careful Gen if he feels threatened he'll lock the thread

pruritis_ani
03-24-2006, 09:36 PM
be careful Gen if he feels threatened he'll lock the thread

Now that is a good one!:)

pruritis_ani
03-24-2006, 09:37 PM
BTW, the silence from the St Chris crowd is pretty surprising. Any perspectives from current students? Jpryor? Anyone? It is always good to see another side of the story.

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 09:38 PM
Where did you checked your facts the local yellow pages? Check IMED, under Belize, NOTES.

http://imed.ecfmg.org/details.asp?country=166&school=&currpage=1&cname=BELIZE&city=&region=CA&rname=Central+America%2FCaribbean&mcode=166030&psize=25

It says this...
Grace University School of Medicine was previously located in St. Kitts-Nevis. According to the Government of Belize website, "The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the Government of Belize and Grace School of Medicine, made on the 4th day of December, 2000 has been terminated by the Government of Belize. This termination took effect on 17th December, 2004. With effect from the said date, the School no longer exists in Belize."
Re-check your facts.
Yea I know, it's what was said on the WEB site of the one in the UK at the time, it seems I can't find it now. As far as I can tell the GMC approved these schools on a case by case basis because the Governments must have responded back confirming the schools, as far as I can tell this was not the case for St. Chris, so they are not accepted like the others.

My only point is the other schools are questionable and if things were done right by the Admin at St. Chris as they said it was then I do not think this would be the way it is. It seems there was major problems unlike what the students were told and what was posted on here.

And I did believe what I was told back in Nov. but changed my mind by Jan of this year. I'm sorry I believed it but I find it hard to believe that something so basic and needed was neglected with all the millions that went through that college in the past 5 years.:shock:

There is a hugh expensive lesson in all of this that's for sure:shock:

This has taught me never to encourage anyone to go anywhere but I still think you can tell someone what you think and decribe the school ect. But not to outright tell them they should go there. I have said in the past to check it out but now I make sure to say that with every such post anywhere.
At any of these schools it is a mistake to encourage people to come there cause you think it is a good fit for you, it may not be for them, and if anything ever happens........................Krigezi and this school should serve as reminders of what may happen.

empathy
03-24-2006, 09:39 PM
*****************...where are you????

empathy
03-24-2006, 09:41 PM
let's say...like you said the BBC article was questionable?


Yea I know, it's what was said on the WEB site of the one in the UK at the time, it seems I can't find it now. As far as I can tell the GMC approved these schools on a case by case basis because the Governments must have responded back confirming the schools, as far as I can tell this was not the case for St. Chris, so they are not accepted like the others.

My only point is the other schools are questionable and if things were done right by the Admin at St. Chris as they said it was then I do not think this would be the way it is. It seems there was major problems unlike what the students were told and what was posted on here.

And I did believe what I was told back in Nov. but changed my mind by Jan of this year. I'm sorry I believed it but I find it hard to believe that something so basic and needed was neglected with all the millions that went through that college in the past 5 years.:shock:

There is a hugh expensive lesson in all of this that's for sure:shock:

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 09:53 PM
let's say...like you said the BBC article was questionable?

Like I said today (after a long silence) I changed my mind.

You have made mistakes and I made mistakes.

I still think there is questions that are unanswered in the original BBC report.
"Like how do you explain the 2000 charter-WHO listing" for instance? It's never been answered.

You know you want us to change our minds and when we do you still wanna fight? You have a chip on your shoulder?


Thereis no doubt that the other schools escept Krigezi, are questionable.

I thought you fought for the truth? You wanna fight on that point and say they are not? WOW :shock:

And no this is not spin just like others is discussion.

empathy
03-24-2006, 10:00 PM
no one wants to sit by and see a group of people get conned. I have no reason to have a chip on my shoulder. I discovered someone wasn't telling the truth about some pretty HUGE things and set out to help people trapped in a situation. Nothing more nothing less. I don't like how you play both sides that's all. You have info that can help people but you chose not to use it. That's very sad to me.

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 10:08 PM
One last post for now...........
GM If I'm wrong and don't remember about the Grace charter then sorry, I thought the school started in the UK under that charter then it ran out but the school may have closed shortly after that, I really didn't keep up with it.

To everyone else Yes I'm a MOD, but mods do not defend the forums they moderate, unless posting to TOS problems, other posts are just like yours opinions.
I have to suffer attacks everytime I post here, I'm not nor will encourage anyone to go to this school, I will not defend the school, It seems now some of the stuff I was told was the truth in the past was not the truth, if I posted such infromation I'm sorry it was never intentional as much as anyother student posting infromation.The students who are attending this school for the most part are innocent and I do feel if a reasonable way is found to help them it should be done, If it is Senegal taking over the school and running it, transferring, lawsuits what ever we should be in support of the students, Most of us are students.
Please lets keep this in mind.

Good luck and lets keep the St. Chris students in our prayers. :(

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 10:16 PM
no one wants to sit by and see a group of people get conned. I have no reason to have a chip on my shoulder. I discovered someone wasn't telling the truth about some pretty HUGE things and set out to help people trapped in a situation. Nothing more nothing less. I don't like how you play both sides that's all. You have info that can help people but you chose not to use it. That's very sad to me.
Whats sad is that you have no idea, I have no info at all, I'm in the Carribean.

I have no real connections just some students who have emailed me from time to time. Do you expect me to post private Emails with little infromation that is unverified? For what your pleasure? Why? It may not be true! In fact most of it stated this was not going to happen. I do not play both sides but you are now. How can you claim to care for the students and say you want possible false info to be posted? I was "cut off" when I left the school.

Thats what happens when you leave. For the last time being a mod has nothing to do with the school.

###
03-24-2006, 10:25 PM
................

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 10:27 PM
One last post for now...........
GM If I'm wrong and don't remember about the Grace charter then sorry, I thought the school started in the UK under that charter then it ran out but the school may have closed shortly after that, I really didn't keep up with it.

To everyone else Yes I'm a MOD, but mods do not defend the forums they moderate, unless posting to TOS problems, other posts are just like yours opinions.
I have to suffer attacks everytime I post here, I'm not nor will encourage anyone to go to this school, I will not defend the school, It seems now some of the stuff I was told was the truth in the past was not the truth, if I posted such infromation I'm sorry it was never intentional as much as anyother student posting infromation.The students who are attending this school for the most part are innocent and I do feel if a reasonable way is found to help them it should be done, If it is Senegal taking over the school and running it, transferring, lawsuits what ever we should be in support of the students, Most of us are students.
Please lets keep this in mind.

Good luck and lets keep the St. Chris students in our prayers. :(


I quoted this to say..............Empathy good night. I don't care what you think. Nothing to spin, not both sides, I do care for the students and pray it gets better somehow. I have said I made mistakes in the past in believing the admin of the school and things written and told to me by them.

Changed mind and now have only a clue to what is going on. JP knows more than I do I think. The St. Chris crew cut me off when I left. I went to another school.

Med student to Med student I pray for all of you.
:cry:

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 10:29 PM
I find all this talk about resurecting the school under Senegal amazing. If there is ONE lesson that should be learned from this it is that people should stick with established schools. New schools (e.g., Grace, Kigezi, SC) are a risky proposition. It think it becomes even more risky if there is a questionable history that could compromise acceptance of credits, licensing, etc. People ignored this warning before and, apparently, it still hasn't been absorbed.

With respect to SC I can only see a few alternatives:

1) Prospective students:
Nobody in their right mind should go to this school -- no matter who runs it. There are many alternatives that don't have the risk. Simply put, new students would be crazy to enroll at this school.

2) Current students - Basic Sciences
At the least, I would transfer. And, depending on my finances, how far along I was, etc. I would strongly consider starting over. For example, for those a year in, I it may be better to simply start over with a clean slate rather than try and worry about wrangling with licensing boards later on. One way or the other I would get out.

3) Current students - Clinical Sciences
This is a tough situation. Those who choose to continue risk ending up with a worthless degree. On the other hand, starting over is very costly. I would think it would be problematic applying for licensure and residencies from a defunct school. Further, I suspect that those who "succeed" are likely to have a very limited range of states in which they are eligible. Thus, I think it is probably worthwhile to transfer even if it costs a year or so. Thus, I would try hard to get out.

The bottom line is that I don't see how a new school can be viable. New students would be crazy to choose it and current students should leave. I am not sure there will be enough cash flow to sustain it.

Yep I agree. It's really sad.

OLDPRO
03-24-2006, 10:46 PM
Where did you checked your facts the local yellow pages? Check IMED, under Belize, NOTES.

http://imed.ecfmg.org/details.asp?country=166&school=&currpage=1&cname=BELIZE&city=&region=CA&rname=Central+America%2FCaribbean&mcode=166030&psize=25

It says this...
Grace University School of Medicine was previously located in St. Kitts-Nevis. According to the Government of Belize website, "The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the Government of Belize and Grace School of Medicine, made on the 4th day of December, 2000 has been terminated by the Government of Belize. This termination took effect on 17th December, 2004. With effect from the said date, the School no longer exists in Belize."
Re-check your facts.

It's okay GM this is from the GMC this past week:


Grace University School of Medicine, London
This institution was previously affiliated to Grace University School of Medicine in Belize and the College of Medicine and Health Sciences in Saint Lucia. It is awaiting accreditation from a new host country. We currently do not accept degrees awarded by this institution as it is unclear who is awarding them.


So that's why I'm confused? Which Grace are they referring to now since they were referring to the one in the UK Before?:confused:

CorporateRaider
03-24-2006, 10:59 PM
Suing for damages, on the surface seems to be a viable option.

My limited understanding is that allegedly the set up is:

A U.S. group set up a U.S company that is operating in england, that was granted degree granting authority from a host university in Senegal.

Complicated indeed.

Ideas to look at:

The U.S. is very strick on interstate commerce and fraud using the U.S. postal service and/or electronic means. I am not saying that this or any other school commited any crime or even broke any laws, only a competent attorney can give you legal advice.










We've been talking with a United States law firm about ...........suing for all of our money back. We have to do something and we have to do it fast. Who is going to join us?

PathOne
03-24-2006, 11:31 PM
Suing for damages, on the surface seems to be a viable option.

My limited understanding is that allegedly the set up is:

A U.S. group set up a U.S company that is operating in england, that was granted degree granting authority from a host university in Senegal.

Complicated indeed.

Ideas to look at:

The U.S. is very strick on interstate commerce and fraud using the U.S. postal service and/or electronic means. I am not saying that this or any other school commited any crime or even broke any laws, only a competent attorney can give you legal advice.

While there'll surely be a huge financial fallout for a number of St. Chris students, I think that the main focus right now is how best to continue their medical training at an accredited school. Lawsuits are likely to be time-consuming, and judging from the St. Chris backers actions so far, they're unlikely to be any more honest or forthcoming than they've been in the past. Apparently, they STILL don't feel a need to inform current and prospective students about what's going on and about their side of the story on their own website or anywhere else. Thus, I doubt they'll ever pay up, even if ordered to do so.

azskeptic
03-25-2006, 01:28 AM
It's okay GM this is from the GMC this past week:



So that's why I'm confused? Which Grace are they referring to now since they were referring to the one in the UK Before?:confused:


Grace is no more in the UK supposedly. Perhaps they are referred to former grads like certain owners?

###
03-25-2006, 02:07 AM
........................

azskeptic
03-25-2006, 03:55 AM
What ever happened to TruthBeTold? For the sake of history, I think TruthBeTold was the first to call out SC -- for which he was driven into oblivion by the cheerleaders. He even had the distinction of getting a preemptory warning for stating that he intended to spill the goods about a paying valueMD advertiser.

Unfortunately, the search function only goes back a year so those posts are apparently lost. Its too bad because the posts and the ensuing responses could be valueMD classics. On the other hand, the short memory is probably comforting to some.....

As usual, those who ignore history are bound to repeat it. I remember many people on network54 warning students not to transfer to Grace when it opened. Many were burned. I also remember much of the early discussions on SC involved warnings using the demise of Grace as an example -- which few people had heard about. I suspect the example of SC will work for a while and fall on deaf ears as the memory fades.

As rrod has often said, people are often so delighted to be accepted to medical school that they lose perspective. Medical school is such an emotional issue for some that they become irrational -- making it an area ripe for con artists.

Anyway, I hope somebody has looked up TruthBeTold and briefed him on recent events. Those who told the truth were fought. I got a nasty email today from a student who basically insinuated if I had said nothing they wouldn't have the problems they do today; they don't realize that the truth always follows you,no matter who is saying it...what is, is.

Yes, you are right. There will be students looking for schools again and again they won't listen to questions raised by others but will jump in and risk hundreds of thousands of dollars. amazing indeed.

###
03-25-2006, 05:07 AM
..............

###
03-25-2006, 05:09 AM
..............

azskeptic
03-25-2006, 06:42 AM
I am not convinced that the world is any better off with the demise of SC. I really think this charter business has little impact on quality. Once again, nobody brought forth any evidence that outcomes from SC were deficient. Also, I hardly think the oversight by carib island governments is reassuring. I would much prefer to see more emphasis placed on adequate appraisal of individuals. I recognize that inputs do affect quality of outputs; however, I think we are better off putting more attention on measuring outputs.

The emphasis on accreditation has a logical flaw. In general, you develop a process to produce a particular outcome and you measure your success against the outcome. Thus, there is no need to specify the input if you can measure the output. Also, if you can't measure the output -- how do you decide what inputs matter? Thus, I think we should be putting much more resources into improved testing. The USMLE is a step in the right direction (no pun intended) but it is clearly inadequate because the assessment is limited to factual knowledge.

Finally, I believe in free markets. Over the long run, free markets lower costs and improve quality. There is no reason why this wouldn't hold true in medical education. I suspect that medical education would get better and cost would decline substantially if the Rosses and SGUs were allowed to locate in the US.

In my view, the SC saga was much ado about nothing -- except that a lot of people got hurt. Still, one has to play by the rules and the rules say you need a charter.

Finally, the SC fiasco simply emphasizes something about risk. Sometimes risk is understandable (e.g. a simple game of chance) whereas other times it has unknown dimensions. I have repeatedly warned people to avoid unestablished schools because of the risk. I never would have guessed that SC would crumble in this particular way. The point is that the risks associated with these schools is really quite unpredictable -- and best avoided. Medicine is about rules. You will always have people telling you who/what/where/when you can do things and you must obey them or you will be without a medical license. Those who chose to risk SC have seen what happens in the UK. ECFMG is still out but my guess is that many other things will happen because agencies look at rulings.

Bottom line: go to a medical school that has met the rules. There are many in the Carib, Mexico,etc. that are legit and you can get a good education and achieve your dream. We need you in the US...we are dependent on foreign trained docs.....azskeptic in London for 5 more days

tiredintern
03-25-2006, 06:57 AM
One thing I dont nderstand.. dont current US licensing laws dictate a certain percentage of basic science course work must be completed in the charter country?? Hasnt that always been an issue with SC from day one? My impressions of SC - when i was an intern at a small crap hospital in NYC we had a handful of SC students doing pitiful rotations in ob, surg, and peds.. ask them what school they were from and all of them (probably 12 or so that I met) tried to sell themselves as british med students. On top of that they constantly dogged carib schools.. which was probably a poor choice since 1/2 of the residents there were carib fmgs. In any case.. the rest of this story is gonna be pretty clear, bad press will lead to drastically lowered enrollment and the eventual financial collapse of the scholl.. ala kigezi. Once the SC pep squad is done crying into their pillows it would be nice to hear their take on this and what they plan to do now.

OLDPRO
03-25-2006, 07:36 AM
Yes the problem with not starting over is you have to report the school you have credits with and hope it will be okay. I'm redoing credits here. I think even if you got through basic sci to redo the 18 months is a short time to ensure a lifetime.

truthbetold
03-25-2006, 09:30 AM
Hi Dr. B,

I am still here.

Truth.

Scott1981
03-25-2006, 11:11 AM
dr b,

truthbetold's previous postings can still be pulled up. you just cant search for them the normal way. the way you do it is to find one of his/her posts, like the one just above this one. click on the name "truthbetold" and then click on "find all posts by truthbetold."

viola, all the posts from back in 2003.

CorporateRaider
03-25-2006, 12:23 PM
YEAH and if I had wings I would not have to fly business class either.

BLAMING AZ for the demise of any school is outright IGNORANT. If I owned a medical school and I have all of my paperwork in order and someone like AZ came "snooping", I would laugh and let the investigation run its course. In fact I would tell AZ & Co., bring it on, do your worst, tell me what my school's deficiencies are and then laugh my rumplestiltskin off in the comfort of my lazy-boy chair knowing that my school has all of its paperwork in order.

Send AZ to one of the serious schools, look and see if they tremble?

Using the students logic that AZ is to blame , is paramount to saying that the Senegalse are also listening to what he says. It was the senegalse that did not confirm , it was the senegalse that did not answer the questions, it was the senegalse that were fed up with the "St. Chris College of Medicine, Luton, England" situation, why not complain to the owner of the Luton operations?








Those who told the truth were fought. I got a nasty email today from a student who basically insinuated if I had said nothing they wouldn't have the problems they do today; they don't realize that the truth always follows you,no matter who is saying it...what is, is.

Yes, you are right. There will be students looking for schools again and again they won't listen to questions raised by others but will jump in and risk hundreds of thousands of dollars. amazing indeed.

angel_fyre
03-26-2006, 12:21 PM
the long and short of it is, Dr...L and the rest of the st.chris admin dug thier own grave, its all thier fault not anyone elses. no one should be suprised at the verdict..and blaming a student is out right stupid that person should not even be in medical school cause it shows how stupid thier thinking is.

I have some inside info that the reason the GMC situation did not get resolved is because Dr L...did not put in any effort in dealing with the situation..because of this... the rest of st.chirs admin who are sitting in thier big comfortable chairs in the states are going to sue him...because he did not handle the situation properly..i duuno if this is true...but if the courts were to rule against Dr..L..he would be stripped of the shares he has in his good for nothing company (St. Chris)...St.Chris is also looking into changing their name and starting over under a new banner. I think the new name should reflect how "good" the school is...so they should use words like..shit..worthless..Lies..un organized in the title.

CorporateRaider
03-26-2006, 01:02 PM
From the rumors and so forth allegedly mister "L" did bring this to where it is today, along with an alleged dose of: I don't care about anyone else, this school is mine and I have so much money you better listen to me type mentality. Odd how allegedly someone thinks they can "demand" on someone else's turf. While in Senegal do as the senegalese, this seems to be such a simple and basic premise that it's hard to imagine how anyone, especially an M.D., once licensed in the U.S.A. , could overlook this?


Shares being stripped? Not possible.

Superficially speaking, lawsuits are possible.




the long and short of it is, Dr...L and the rest of the st.chris admin dug thier own grave, its all thier fault not anyone elses. no one should be suprised at the verdict..and blaming a student is out right stupid that person should not even be in medical school cause it shows how stupid thier thinking is.

I have some inside info that the reason the GMC situation did not get resolved is because Dr L...did not put in any effort in dealing with the situation..because of this... the rest of st.chirs admin who are sitting in thier big comfortable chairs in the states are going to sue him...because he did not handle the situation properly..i duuno if this is true...but if the courts were to rule against Dr..L..he would be stripped of the shares he has in his good for nothing company (St. Chris)...St.Chris is also looking into changing their name and starting over under a new banner. I think the new name should reflect how "good" the school is...so they should use words like..pooh pooh..worthless..Lies..un organized in the title.

sheikh1
03-26-2006, 01:29 PM
If the school was not in Senegal, it could have been a different story!!!!

angel_fyre
03-26-2006, 01:52 PM
i attend st.chirs, i heard ** from the king of ** Dr.L himself everything from getting a new charter to opening up a new school..and whatever else he blabs out of his mouth, the guys a bold face liar...he'll forsure pay for what he has done to students, if not by law suits then by other means and thats not a threat thats a promise.

sheikh1
03-26-2006, 01:56 PM
I don't know why some people, are so in to destroying the reputation and students who have graduated from this great school!!!

angel_fyre
03-26-2006, 02:28 PM
since when was it a great school? what evidence is there of this?

angel_fyre
03-26-2006, 02:36 PM
ahahahahhaha

AUCMD2006
03-26-2006, 10:09 PM
If the school was not in Senegal, it could have been a different story!!!!

why are you trying to turn this into a race issue? it has nothing to do with africa, it has to do with a charter outside of country and the fact that things that are done in these countries can not be trusted..this would be absolutely no different if the charter had been in latin american eastern europe or any other corruption ladden part of the world.

i wouldn't trust a school with a charter in chile, peru, bolivia, honduras, any contry ending in "stan" any more than senegal, nigeria, liberia, and any other country of your choice, why? because they are in such desperate states as to allow anything to happen, no oversight, no control, and no relation to location or skin color

but its much easier to just say its because the country is in africa that it gets such a bad rap....

TAFKA
03-27-2006, 12:31 AM
edited to remove text

microphage
03-27-2006, 01:16 AM
I thought after the first few initial days, it'd be a open and shut discussion... guess not... Look at Kigezi forum, nobody posts there anymore.

maximillian genossa
03-27-2006, 01:05 PM
Well, as interesting this subject is I noticed that besides accepting GRACE graduates, besides Grace, I also noticed they accept degrees issued by 4 Dominican Republic schools, Eugenio Maria de Hostos University and its 1990's reincarnation Eugenio Maria de Hostos International University as well as Universidad Federico Enriquez Y Carvajal and last but not least Universidad Mundial Dominicana.
What is special about them? They all were shut down by the Dominican Republic Government because they were proved beyon reasonable doubt to be, DIPLOMA MILLS.

Way to go GMC.

angel_fyre
03-27-2006, 01:11 PM
its not the GMC, its the owners of St.Chris that couldn't present the proper information at the right time because the school is unorganized and disfunctional. I am sure if they did things the proper way they would not have been shot down by the GMC, Too little too late..St.chris students are better off going to one of the other diploma mills or shut down schools..where they can at least sit the PLAB...those schools "shut down" are better than St.Chris open, at least those schools are worth something even if they dont exist anymore

Miklos
03-27-2006, 01:15 PM
Well, as interesting this subject is I noticed that besides accepting GRACE graduates, besides Grace, I also noticed they accept degrees issued by 4 Dominican Republic schools, Eugenio Maria de Hostos University and its 1990's reincarnation Eugenio Maria de Hostos International University as well as Universidad Federico Enriquez Y Carvajal and last but not least Universidad Mundial Dominicana.
What is special about them? They all were shut down by the Dominican Republic Government because they were proved beyon reasonable doubt to be, DIPLOMA MILLS.

Way to go GMC.

So too, apparently does the ECFMG (http://imed.ecfmg.org/results.asp?country=308&school=&currpage=1&cname=DOMINICAN+REPUBLIC&city=&region=0&rname=&psize=25).

maximillian genossa
03-27-2006, 01:18 PM
Ain't that a bummer?





its not the GMC, its the owners of St.Chris that couldn't present the proper information at the right time because the school is unorganized and disfunctional. I am sure if they did things the proper way they would not have been shot down by the GMC, Too little too late..St.chris students are better off going to one of the other diploma mills or shut down schools..where they can at least sit the PLAB...those schools "shut down" are better than St.Chris open, at least those schools are worth something even if they dont exist anymore

maximillian genossa
03-27-2006, 01:20 PM
How will they be able to differentiate those who bought diplomas from those few legit students(yes they did had a few legit students on campus, I remember that) if they just appear as graduates?

I dunno.





So too, apparently does the ECFMG (http://imed.ecfmg.org/results.asp?country=308&school=&currpage=1&cname=DOMINICAN+REPUBLIC&city=&region=0&rname=&psize=25).

angel_fyre
03-27-2006, 01:35 PM
good question, i guess when they kill some innocent people and get sued then they'll be able to differentiate

sheikh1
03-27-2006, 02:08 PM
why are you trying to turn this into a race issue? it has nothing to do with africa, it has to do with a charter outside of country and the fact that things that are done in these countries can not be trusted..this would be absolutely no different if the charter had been in latin american eastern europe or any other corruption ladden part of the world.

i wouldn't trust a school with a charter in chile, peru, bolivia, honduras, any contry ending in "stan" any more than senegal, nigeria, liberia, and any other country of your choice, why? because they are in such desperate states as to allow anything to happen, no oversight, no control, and no relation to location or skin color

but its much easier to just say its because the country is in africa that it gets such a bad rap....
It is more than race, even African Americans hate Africa

orangecrush
03-27-2006, 02:12 PM
That is definately NOT true....Americans don't hate Africa...what are you talking about?

This is a debate about the school...not Africa! If the Senegalese want to buy the school and run it properly then go for it. It would surely help the current students by allowing the school to continue with ECFMG backing.

sheikh1
03-27-2006, 02:15 PM
There are some Carib schools that don't meet the standard, why cant they take action. Some people cant stand Africa it has nothing to do with race.

maximillian genossa
03-27-2006, 02:25 PM
Interesting debate that has nothing to do with St. Chris and the GMC ruling, except for the name Senegal. Perhaps the relaxing lounge is more appropiate?





There are some Carib schools that don't meet the standard, why cant they take action. Some people cant stand Africa it has nothing to do with race.

angel_fyre
03-27-2006, 06:16 PM
I have gotten word that Dr.L is no longer the owner of St.Chris and the rest of the St.Chris admin has gotten together and given him the boot. Dr. L ... is turn sueing the rest of the st.chirs admin particaulary Dr. F in NJ for kicking him out. I dont know the legal aspects of how this was done but i know that its happening for sure, i got a call from NJ today. This is only adding fuel to the fire as st. chirs is already burned up. Along with their million other problems.... they have internal problems to deal with as well...I am SURE that getting ECFMG and GMC back are not on the list of these so called "trusted" individuals as there own ***** are on the line now. So whats more important to these people their own personal injuries or the injuries they have caused hundreds of students??..i think that explains itself....so where dose that leave current SC students...in a pile of ______

Do you St. Chris cheerleaders really think the school is gona get back on its feet? please let me know. IF anyone dose you sure like to dream i know most people dont believe whats posted here, but the one thing thats 100% true is St.Chris is lost in this maze there not getting out and its over. For everyone (like me as well) that initally trusted an admin like this..well its our own fault.

TAFKA
03-27-2006, 06:33 PM
Do you St. Chris cheerleaders really think the school is gona get back on its feet?Yes, some of us do.

bts4202
03-27-2006, 06:39 PM
Unfortunately, most of your information is very confused. It is understandable, however a full recount of all current events will be posted as soon as it is reasonable to do so. It is very wise to suggest that no one even consider attending st chris until some of the issues have been resolved and an above board account of all transgressions has been made. If things progress as they should, I will return to relay just such an account.

AUCMD2006
03-27-2006, 10:10 PM
how do you believe the oversight in caribbean nations differs from that in african nations or nations that end in "-stan"?

because the carib schools i would 'trust', and trust is being stretched here, have their financial huevos against the wall in check by the requirements to keep stafford loans, continuous reviews by the states that require school verification, and thousands of graduates with licenses accross the USA.

so there you have the 'oversight' i see in the carib schools

AUCMD2006
03-27-2006, 10:35 PM
Unfortunately, most of your information is very confused. It is understandable, however a full recount of all current events will be posted as soon as it is reasonable to do so. It is very wise to suggest that no one even consider attending st chris until some of the issues have been resolved and an above board account of all transgressions has been made. If things progress as they should, I will return to relay just such an account.

good luck, senegal taking over and hiring a dean from a US med school (preferably without a revoked license) to run the place would work wonders and head in the right direction.

so if it turns the other way will you post anyway and recount what happened with perhaps an apology for years of hopefully unknowingly misleading students? maybe an account of why mr L was able to wow the brain trust there as an ER doc from NY for so many years while an egg farmer and an attending with a fettish for star treck 2,000 miles away figured out it was a lie 3 years ago?

the cheerleaders defended king pin bitterly, discouraged people from posting things that painted the school any other shade than rose, blasted anyone that said anything that deviated from script, dismissed years of questions about charter, location, professors, and redirected current SC students to the internal website to discuss anything other than a rosy pic of SC, the great suburd of Luton, the ivy league clinical sites, professors, etc.?

i feel bad for the SC students, i think sgu, auc, etc should help them in any way possible, but i will not forget the people that were fooled into attending this school just like i almost did by students at another infamous school years ago. thats why its personal for me, i can imagine being in that position and how close i was to it.

i just can't stand people deceiving others so wether it is things like bts, mtt, etc have done, willing or not, in spinning all things SC or tafkas magic transfer story if it's too good to be true..it is

PathOne
03-27-2006, 11:05 PM
i just can't stand people deceiving others so wether it is things like bts, mtt, etc have done, willing or not, in spinning all things SC or tafkas magic transfer story if it's too good to be true..it is

A bit difficult to say what these individuals are actually saying... bts keeps hinting at information he doesn't want to give out, while Tafka takes it one step further, and am in the process of systematically deleting previous posts. Quite interesting...

TAFKA
03-27-2006, 11:27 PM
edited to remove text

maximillian genossa
03-27-2006, 11:28 PM
If things progress as they should (as you say) the school should close pretty soon.

Your blind faith in the eyes of destruction amazes me, or is it that your creed is ...the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth?

Wake up and smell the coffee, taste it too, it is strong.











Unfortunately, most of your information is very confused. It is understandable, however a full recount of all current events will be posted as soon as it is reasonable to do so. It is very wise to suggest that no one even consider attending st chris until some of the issues have been resolved and an above board account of all transgressions has been made. If things progress as they should, I will return to relay just such an account.

PathOne
03-28-2006, 12:41 AM
In a now-deleted post, I explained why I delete them... my former username on this site was my real full name and I deleted all my posts during the course of my residency application since a simple google search of my name turned up this site, much of which is juvenile bickering. As for why I continue to delete my posts... I'm not really sure, I guess I just kind of like the notoriety...


Explaining one's actions "in a now-deleted post" and unsure as to why one continues to delete posts.... Yes, that's certainly a good way to gain notoriety... However, it's not a great way to build credibility.

But back to the issue at hand. It has continually been claimed that St. Chris has - and some claim have - so much going for it, in terms of quality training, etc.
Excuse me, but I find it somewhat hard to believe that a school which has PROVEN that it's unable even to substantiate its own claim of affiliation to a Senegalese university, and thus a charter, and has led its students and graduates into a vast quagmire, isn't really high on my list of a school able to develop sustainable advancement in medical training.
What we're talking about here is a breach the First Clause of the Basic Law for Medical Schools: Thou Shall Have A Charter (and be able to produce it, and convince licensing authorities that it's good and valid).
A school unable to do that simply doesn't stand a chance. And with the current and future defections from the school, it's even in the best of circumstances highly unlikely that St. Chris would even have the financial resources, let alone human resources, to lift the burden of becoming a respected and respectable medical school.

Sorry for being so harsh, but an awful lot of innocent people has been hurt by the actions and inactions of this school.

gazpacho
03-28-2006, 01:12 AM
SC students: surely the administration would have said something concrete to you. How are they responding to what has happened? What are their current plans to act?

IndianSClink
03-28-2006, 01:34 AM
//////////////////////////

pruritis_ani
03-28-2006, 09:31 AM
In a now-deleted post, I explained why I delete them... my former username on this site was my real full name and I deleted all my posts during the course of my residency application since a simple google search of my name turned up this site, much of which is juvenile bickering. As for why I continue to delete my posts... I'm not really sure, I guess I just kind of like the notoriety...

And, rrod... my "magic transfer story" isn't very farfetched... I met a British girl on SXM, we got married, we moved to the UK, and I started at SCCM... now we've got an 18-month-old son and I'd be a fool not to be worried about my future, but I also have good reason to believe that things will work out adequately. And despite the obviously unpleasant rollercoaster that my final year of med school turned into, I will continue to support SCCM if it appears to be moving in the right direction... all things considered, it had (and still has) incredible potential to be a great school.

Your "magic transfer story" leaves out some details that have been provided by some of you ex-classmates....let's just reiterate that it is very unlikely for someone to leave a better school one day without either failing or being encouraged to leave by the school...yes, we all know you were not failing, but....

Further, how on earth can you say St. Chris has the potential to be a great school? There are two choices for the school, Senegal and Mr. L...now, call me crazy, but neither of those seems to reflect this incredible potential. Additionally, the schools name is pretty much useless, the GMC and ECFMG are not recognizing the school, an entire batch of students seem very likely to be unable to start at the programs they matched into which will really not help the St. Chris reputation stateside...you are fighting an uphill battle with this school.

Seems like you have some pretty strong faith in a school that has let you down. I would hope that you could have learned from this...at least I would hope that you learned not to spout off stupid, optimistic statements based on your delusions. Even if everything turned around today, and returned to the state it was 8 months ago, the school would STILL have problems!

Man, it IS like a cult over there...everything is ok, right? Just have a sip of this kool-aid with the rest of us...:rolleyes:

pruritis_ani
03-28-2006, 09:35 AM
SC students: surely the administration would have said something concrete to you. How are they responding to what has happened? What are their current plans to act?

No matter what the school may have said, you can rest assured that it is not "concrete". It appears that the school/admin have been very decietful from day 1. Now they are even less trustworthy.

The good news for the school is that they still have a heard of lemmings (students), apparently ready to jump of the cliff when asked to do so...

CorporateRaider
03-28-2006, 09:57 AM
Guys, Gals, and those in between:

Why be hard on BTS & Co.,? One gains loyalty to the program as one progresses through it, it's human nature. Can you blame BTS for loving his school?

If one student decided to enroll @ St. Chris because of a post they read that was written by BTS - Et. Al., then this student did not do his/her due diligence.

Oppps, I said a bad word, well actually a couple of bad words !


DUE DILIGENCE


Do diligence, is not:

1. Reading a post by BTS et. al. and basing the rest of your life upon that.
2. Taking the W.H.O./E.C.F.M.G. list and saying "ohhh lookie daddy they are accredited by these organizations."
3. Sitting & listening to mister "L" brag about his emergency room days, how well connected he allegedly is to YALE and Haavad'.

jpryor
03-28-2006, 10:59 AM
BTW, the silence from the St Chris crowd is pretty surprising. Any perspectives from current students? Jpryor? Anyone? It is always good to see another side of the story.

Oh, I've been keeping silent so I don't inadvertently say something I shouldn't. I will say this, if specualtion was good for the soul, most of you would be Heaven bound.

Part of the reason I'm keeping silent is that it is a useless venture trying to educate people who are certain that their opinion is right. So, the process is continuing and I'm content to sit on the sidelines.

azskeptic
03-28-2006, 11:14 AM
BEWARE: The clock strikes on Friday. Will you leave your loans to SC?

pamu30
03-28-2006, 11:28 AM
Hey mr Eggman and co,

It's not a final ruling or any ruling at all. Did u read the web site accurately; which clearly states "at the present time". The investigation is still on going and they are still waiting for the confirmation and until then they have updated the web site with the current situation. You can phone the gmc urself to confirm this.

for the time being we will let u guys enjoy. Lets see who will have the last laugh.

have a nice day :cool: :cool: :cool:

azskeptic
03-28-2006, 11:30 AM
Hey mr Eggman and co,

It's not a final ruling or any ruling at all. Did u read the web site accurately; which clearly states "at the present time". The investigation is still on going and they are still waiting for the confirmation and until then they have updated the web site with the current situation. You can phone the gmc urself to confirm this.

for the time being we will let u guys enjoy. Lets see who will have the last laugh.

have a nice day :cool: :cool: :cool: am in london on business. trust me, I've checked. Yes the investigation is ongoing but if you don't know SC is done, you are not listening to the environment around you. azskeptic

pamu30
03-28-2006, 11:37 AM
trust me I am checking as well. By the way you may be in UK on business but I happen to be living in this country.

dt
03-28-2006, 11:38 AM
Hey mr Eggman and co,

...

for the time being we will let u guys enjoy. Lets see who will have the last laugh.

have a nice day :cool: :cool: :cool:

I dont think az or anyone are really laughing... You may think they are...

azskeptic
03-28-2006, 11:39 AM
trust me I am checking as well. By the way you may be in UK on business but I happen to be living in this country. so which group are you in: the men in robes, the 'he will get this worked out' camp, or the wild card (another school will take over) group? I am serious..those are the 3 camps I see in discussions with students via email.

pamu30
03-28-2006, 11:45 AM
it shows how little u know

azskeptic
03-28-2006, 11:46 AM
it shows how little u know Ok, I called this problem in 2003 so I must know a bit but just too early. Enlighten us

pamu30
03-28-2006, 11:57 AM
will do when the time comes. till then try to sort ur own problems and yeah........ keep speculating. it's very amusing

PathOne
03-28-2006, 12:02 PM
Oh, I've been keeping silent so I don't inadvertently say something I shouldn't. I will say this, if specualtion was good for the soul, most of you would be Heaven bound.

Part of the reason I'm keeping silent is that it is a useless venture trying to educate people who are certain that their opinion is right. So, the process is continuing and I'm content to sit on the sidelines.

Well, the process seems to be pretty much completed as far as the GMC is concerned. Haven't exactly seen any quick resolution from ECFMG. Actually, come to think of it, the Heaven-bound must be all those people who claimed that both the GMC and the ECFMG issues would be ever so quickly resolved. Seems to me, that the only effect of that speculation have been that a lot of students have wasted another quarter at St. Chris, unless they immediately reacted to the initial GMC suspension, and left as fast as they could.

Let me reiterate:
1) ALL St. Chris grads are currently suspended from certification from both GMC in the UK and ECFMG in the US.
2) St. Chris admin has had no desire or inclination to comment on this officially.
3) There is no credible information in the public domain that can lead one to the assumption that the problems at St. Chris can be resolved. Yes, there's been speculation that "Senegal could take over the school". Yes, there's been assurances that "students and people at St. Chris is working on a solution" and yes, there's even been rumors - some months back now - that the reason why the GMC was taking so long was that they actually wanted to accredit St. Chris as a medical school. So far, all those statements have at best been speculation, at worst outright wrong.

Please. While I can certainly understand why students, esp. 3rd & 4th years, and grads try fanatically to save their school, I can so far see nothing else than speculation which has no basis in facts and realities.

While I personally am seldom convinced my opinion is right, I have seen absolutely nothing that can refute my opinion so far, which is that incompetence and/or greed on the part of St. Chris admin and owners have put a large number of students and graduates in a horrible position, having made them spend tons of money and a lot of time and energy working towards a diploma which at current isn't worth the paper it's printed on - unless perhaps you'd want to work in Senegal.

jpryor
03-28-2006, 12:03 PM
Shhh, pamu30. Let him stew. His 3 camp reference tells you where he's getting his information, so let him wallow in it.

AUCMD2006
03-28-2006, 12:04 PM
In a now-deleted post, I explained why I delete them... my former username on this site was my real full name and I deleted all my posts during the course of my residency application since a simple google search of my name turned up this site, much of which is juvenile bickering. As for why I continue to delete my posts... I'm not really sure, I guess I just kind of like the notoriety...

And, rrod... my "magic transfer story" isn't very farfetched... I met a British girl on SXM, we got married, we moved to the UK, and I started at SCCM... now we've got an 18-month-old son and I'd be a fool not to be worried about my future, but I also have good reason to believe that things will work out adequately. And despite the obviously unpleasant rollercoaster that my final year of med school turned into, I will continue to support SCCM if it appears to be moving in the right direction... all things considered, it had (and still has) incredible potential to be a great school.

the situation of 3rd and 4th years is complex and i understand why you want to stick it out and hope for the best but it is just not right to continue to spin things with the usual vague non concrete statements. at this time it would serve students and prospects to just say the truth and level with people for a change, bts has done it. then when whatever you guys are working on comes about anounce it just as plainly and bluntly without the spin.....what would you wanna be told if you were a fresh prospect and not a bitter transfer?

i bring up the transfer because it shows just how biased your opinion is. you always leave out the part where the transfer wasn't 'optional' now that would piss me off.. you found a school that fitted you, great but why
continually try to convince people of things that are just **?.....going off topic nevermind hopefully it doesn't show on your record and you learned something good from the experience

back on, the situation isn't final, just looks bleak. but they are allowing people from grace, iuhs, etc to sit for the plab so hopefully this revolt will be fruitful. the leaks about king pin suing aren't good though.

so what exactly woudl you guys, tafka and bts tell students about the admin and the school in hindsight?

also, exactly when do you think the school isn't going in the right direction? by God it seems that you always say the school is moving in the positive direction no matter what....i guess you follow the marine corps credo: we don't retreat, just attack in a different direction..now thats thinking positive

jpryor
03-28-2006, 12:22 PM
There is no credible information in the public domain that can lead one to the assumption that the problems at St. Chris can be resolved.

This is an accurate statement. It is also accurate that there is a tremenduous amount of speculation. Many students attending St. Chris are not involved or informed, so there is as much specualtion occuring there as there is here.

While it appeared to have started a complaint about 'inside information', I'll repeat an earlier statement I made: Once everything is made known, people will understand the reason for the delays. Even the most vocal dissenters will understand why people are not saying anything right now.

In the meantime, I will say this: I've read some excellent rationales justifying people's opinions. Really, quite impressive. A lot of them demonstrated good deductive reasoning. It's going to be interesting reading what these same people have to say once the facts are revealed. Now, before I say something I shouldn't, I'm going to go back and shut up again.

orangecrush
03-28-2006, 01:00 PM
These kind of statements of lets just be patient and wait and see what happens is great and all for those who don't attend St. Chris.

What about the students that are in clinicals, out in the USA with no one that will give information to them. Do you really think it is great and amusing? The school has given us no option but to think all is done, and you are saying....just wait and see....I have heard this for three years....just wait and see...we will have NY...wait and see we will resolve all problems.

It is not working anymore. The school needs to release information to its students so we can make rational decisions. Not ones based on speculation...something we have done for years!

St. Chris students deserve better than this...we demand to know what the hell is going on!

CorporateRaider
03-28-2006, 01:20 PM
Orange:

If you as a St. Chris student do not know what is going on, then that is cause for worry.




St. Chris students deserve better than this...we demand to know what the hell is going on!

CorporateRaider
03-28-2006, 01:24 PM
Az,

SC does not have loans............they only have......have......TERI LOANS.........uh oh........you don't mean that TERI is gonna.............!!!


BEWARE: The clock strikes on Friday. Will you leave your loans to SC?

drseb
03-28-2006, 01:42 PM
St Christophers has probably the best, second to St Georges, of any foreign medical school program.

If people on this site really knew the ins and outs of what really is happening there, I GUARANTEE, none of these comments would be made.

The phrase 'one bad oyster' comes to mind, so look out for them, in the coming weeks, and I would be very happy to see a lot of 'egg on a lot of peoples' faces'.

Look at the facts, they are graduating a lot of students, and a lot of the students are in residency, they have an immaculate USMLE step one pass rate, and I would certainly recommend the school to anyone.

sheikh1
03-28-2006, 01:56 PM
Their are innocent students involved in this fight it is not fair to them. I know some people just like to bash the school, all I can say is have a live.

PathOne
03-28-2006, 02:10 PM
St Christophers has probably the best, second to St Georges, of any foreign medical school program.

If people on this site really knew the ins and outs of what really is happening there, I GUARANTEE, none of these comments would be made.

The phrase 'one bad oyster' comes to mind, so look out for them, in the coming weeks, and I would be very happy to see a lot of 'egg on a lot of peoples' faces'.

Look at the facts, they are graduating a lot of students, and a lot of the students are in residency, they have an immaculate USMLE step one pass rate, and I would certainly recommend the school to anyone.

Sorry, but a school that's currently unable to get ANY grads licensed in the US and the UK isn't terribly high up on my list of "best foreign medical school programs."

PathOne
03-28-2006, 02:24 PM
This is an accurate statement. It is also accurate that there is a tremenduous amount of speculation. Many students attending St. Chris are not involved or informed, so there is as much specualtion occuring there as there is here.

While it appeared to have started a complaint about 'inside information', I'll repeat an earlier statement I made: Once everything is made known, people will understand the reason for the delays. Even the most vocal dissenters will understand why people are not saying anything right now.

In the meantime, I will say this: I've read some excellent rationales justifying people's opinions. Really, quite impressive. A lot of them demonstrated good deductive reasoning. It's going to be interesting reading what these same people have to say once the facts are revealed. Now, before I say something I shouldn't, I'm going to go back and shut up again.

Unfortunately, especially for the students, it is very hard to think of a happy ending to this nightmare. EVEN if one assumes that:
a) The charter/affiliation issue is completely resolved.
b) GMC and ECFMG accepts that St. Chris Luton is a bona fide affiliate working under a Senegalese charter.
c) A thorough cleansing of St. Chris admin is performed.
d) Current students decide to stick with the school.

There's still some hurdles which to me seems pretty unsurmountable:

1) It seems that GMC has effectively clamped down on ALL squatter schools, citing not only charter issues, but also issues of quality assurance. Even with full Senegalese support, I think it'll be difficult for Dakar to convince GMC that one of the poorest countries in Africa can effectively monitor quality on a UK campus.
2) Even if the school survives, applications are highly likely to drop like a rock, leaving the school with insufficient financial resources to implement and advance training. That would take very strong external financial backers, and considering the apparent GMC stance towards squatter schools, it would just be so much easier and cheaper to take the traditional route, and buy a charter in the Carib.

Also, let's not forget that the ECFMG and GMC suspensions are merely the culmination of bad events at the school. For instance, whatever happened about New York State approval for clinical rotations?

While I acknowledge that a number of student posters have been praising the school and the tranining they have received, I must reiterate that a school which allows itself to be suspended by arguably the two most important agencies for IMG's has some major issues, that are unlikely to be resolved. If St. Chris had a major and powerful alumni group, perhaps something could be done. But it doesn't. And the owners wanted nothing more and nothing less than a profitable business, which happened to be a medical school. Under the circumstances, St. Chris looks like a pretty flawed business concept. Unfortunately, it'll be the students and grads who believed in the school who'll pay the biggest price.

jpryor
03-28-2006, 03:16 PM
I must reiterate that a school which allows itself to be suspended by arguably the two most important agencies for IMG's has some major issues, that are unlikely to be resolved.

A reasonable conclusion.

AUCMD2006
03-28-2006, 04:51 PM
St Christophers has probably the best, second to St Georges, of any foreign medical school program.

If people on this site really knew the ins and outs of what really is happening there, I GUARANTEE, none of these comments would be made.

The phrase 'one bad oyster' comes to mind, so look out for them, in the coming weeks, and I would be very happy to see a lot of 'egg on a lot of peoples' faces'.

Look at the facts, they are graduating a lot of students, and a lot of the students are in residency, they have an immaculate USMLE step one pass rate, and I would certainly recommend the school to anyone.

missing the point, the issue over the last 4 years has never been quality of education, professors or the clinical program all of which are pretty subjective.

people have always asked and warned that the charter maybe a problem..most assumed that it would be a country of charter issue and not a missing charter though

Picard
03-28-2006, 08:13 PM
Just a few thoughts...


This is an accurate statement. It is also accurate that there is a tremenduous amount of speculation. Many students attending St. Chris are not involved or informed, so there is as much specualtion occuring there as there is here.
I find this very disturbing that SC students are left uninformed as to exactly what is going on "behind the scenes." I can understand that perhaps there is a wish to keep information out of public view (more on this later), but keeping its own students uninformed is not a good thing. It was precisely the practice of "secrecy" where only a "select few" had all the information that got many of the students in trouble in the first place. To continue this practice to its own students is inexcusible. I find it very sad that there are SC students who seem to know less about the situation than outsiders.

Second. My personal opinion is that the only way for SC to have any meaningful long-term survival is to become a fully accredited British medical school or move basic science campus back to Senegal. Anything short of these two scenarios are only at best temporary solutions. Options of becoming a British school includes being absorbed by another domicile British school, or to open a new school/apply for British recognition. I would suspect being absorbed by another existing British school is a faster route. In either case, there is no reason for Senegal to remain involved except perhaps for monetary support, as there would be no need for a Senegal charter. However, this option runs the risk of credits not being counted under the old SC. Moving back to Senegal has the attraction of continuity, and minimizing the risk of losing credit. The downside is the political/civil instability in Senegal at this time, and the inability to bring an US Marine Expeditionary Unit with you. I think anything short of these two scenarios will bring SC back to where it is now in a very short time.

As for the US side -- ECFMG is the most immediate concern, but is also the least of your concerns in the long run. State licensing boards are the ones you need to worry about. Students need to set their sights 5 to 10 years down the road given the current offshore IMG climate. In addtion, there have been some "chatters" among law enforcement circles... can't tell you what that means because I don't know, since I'm no longer in law enforcement except for some casual personal contacts, and belonging to some restricted law enforcement discussion boards. No, I'm not trying to be "smart" about this. I don't have details. I don't even know if they are in anyway related to SC's situation.

As for keeping the public in the dark for now -- that's a private choice of the SC community, I don't have strong feelings either way. It's their arses on the line, and they stand the most to lose. My only comment on this is that if everything "behind the scene" is being done "above board" with various government agencies as BTS suggested, there is really no need to keep it a secret as to the progress. If everything is done above board, then there is nothing to hide. Having being a cop for some time, I can tell you that backroom deals tend to go sideways.

P

pruritis_ani
03-28-2006, 10:02 PM
While there may well be something grand and wonderful in the works, there are a couple of things that argue against it, IMHO. First and foremost, the source of this optimism....anybody that has anything to do with St Chris is suspect, as there have been many, many claims in the past, and none of them have come to fruition. Second, it seems as though the school itself has lost all credibility with ECFMG and GMC, and likely suffered a fatal blow as far as state boards are concerned. This school has "CRAPPY" written all over it!

machine12
03-28-2006, 11:53 PM
sorry if I missed it but would someone care to link me to the ECFMG website where the official notice is about SC status.

gazpacho
03-29-2006, 01:06 AM
I find this very disturbing that SC students are left uninformed as to exactly what is going on "behind the scenes."
What are you talking about? Clearly the students know something. "Egg on your face" in a few weeks? :rolleyes:

azskeptic
03-29-2006, 02:35 AM
What are you talking about? Clearly the students know something. "Egg on your face" in a few weeks? :rolleyes: i somehow think that some students don't 'know' but are hoping for a miracle in Luton.

gazpacho
03-29-2006, 03:19 AM
i somehow think that some students don't 'know' but are hoping for a miracle in Luton.

I was using the sarcasm smiley for a reason :p but yes, good point.

Have you been doing any investigative work on SC, given that you're in the UK now?

gasdoc
03-29-2006, 09:05 AM
I received the below email from a graduating student of St. Chris'. This seems counter to what is being discussed here. Are students still getting certification?
Any thoughts out there?

As per our discussion today, I have emailed Bill ***** of the ECFMG, I have
asked him to contact you directly via email to insure you that as of now, the
ECFMG is still providing certification to St Christopher grads. I also wanted
to let you know that St Chris Senegal who provides our degrees, diplomas and
charter are working frantically to resolve the current situation with ECFMG.
I have been told they had a meeting with them last friday and things are
expected to be resolved within 1-2 weeks. I expect full resolution with no
further problems very soon.

pruritis_ani
03-29-2006, 09:11 AM
HAHAHAHA!

Another "it will be resolved in 1-2 weeks" claim. That is like a mantra to St. Chris.

For information about ECFMG simply send them an email. Let us know what they say....we already know the students think all is well and soon to be fixed. We shall see if that is the case in "1-2 weeks".

And, don't forget that the ECFMG problems are merely the tip of the iceberg. You will still have to get a license in the US, and that may be even more difficult after all of this controversy.

If you are asking because you are considering attending this school....well, I would think that most people would be smart enough to avoid this school now. There certainly are a lot of current students that wish they avoided it!

OLDPRO
03-29-2006, 09:22 AM
I received the below email from a graduating student of St. Chris'. This seems counter to what is being discussed here. Are students still getting certification?
Any thoughts out there?

As per our discussion today, I have emailed Bill ***** of the ECFMG, I have
asked him to contact you directly via email to insure you that as of now, the
ECFMG is still providing certification to St Christopher grads. I also wanted
to let you know that St Chris Senegal who provides our degrees, diplomas and
charter are working frantically to resolve the current situation with ECFMG.
I have been told they had a meeting with them last friday and things are
expected to be resolved within 1-2 weeks. I expect full resolution with no
further problems very soon.

No, no new certifications, only the ones who took or registered for step 1 can move on so everyone who didn't even the 5th semesters, I'm sure most registered but anyone who procrastinated didn't make it for step one now until or if this is ever lifted. Bottom line can't take the step no chance of ever being a Doc in the USA.

As far as students, good for infromation on school, professors and such, but HAVE NOT BEEN A GOOD SOURCE FOR POLICY OF WHAT THE OUTSIDE ORGANIZATIONS ARE DOING. So listen but wait to see it in writting from the organization.

studentMD
03-29-2006, 10:10 AM
Moving everyone to another country (be it creating a new school and transferring everyone over or moving "st chris" in its original state) while keeping the charter in Senegal just delays the inevitable, might buy some time but that most certainly will not solve the problems that plague the school. They issue is charter in one country, academics in another. Only way to fix that is to do it the right way, move the school to country of charter, wherever the new charter may be, none of this "st chris is establishing a new model for medical education"; its evident that this new model is unfortunately not working and students who put faith in admin are the ones suffering, stakes much higher for students than administration (someones life/career vs potential revenue earned/lost).

OLDPRO
03-29-2006, 10:24 AM
Moving everyone to another country (be it creating a new school and transferring everyone over or moving "st chris" in its original state) while keeping the charter in Senegal just delays the inevitable, might buy some time but that most certainly will not solve the problems that plague the school. They issue is charter in one country, academics in another. Only way to fix that is to do it the right way, move the school to country of charter, wherever the new charter may be, none of this "st chris is establishing a new model for medical education"; its evident that this new model is unfortunately not working and students who put faith in admin are the ones suffering, stakes much higher for students than administration (someones life/career vs potential revenue earned/lost).

I think the experiment is over, it failed, you need to be in country of charter.

maximillian genossa
03-29-2006, 12:28 PM
..."Clearly the students know something"

Like they knew all this time and got screwed good. So much for their knowledge.

HA!!!!



What are you talking about? Clearly the students know something. "Egg on your face" in a few weeks? :rolleyes:

angel_fyre
03-29-2006, 03:29 PM
it seems to amaze me that some people still post and think positive things about st. chirs on this fourm..when there isnt a single postive or good thing about the place...its very good to have a positive attitude and be optimistic... and HOPE for the best..but in St.Chris situation there isnt no hope left. Dr. L and the rest of the ST.Chris admin have proved they are liars and cheated many people..i say again..i know the Admin in NJ very well and they have way to many internal problems now and these issues will NEVER be resolved, you St.Chris cheerleaders HAVE to get Dr..L out of your skirts and pants..and. look at reality...people like BTs,Taka and Jypor and every other supporter that posts ** and in accurate infromation on this site need to stop, you guys have no inside info and are just speculating and your therioes about how the school is good makes no sence. St.Chris is almost buried completely in this avalanche, you guys need to get your heads out before you become traped for good, put a little pressure on your heads see if that makes you think realistically and hopefully you'll start to think clear and come to a logical solution.

tiredintern
03-29-2006, 04:05 PM
sad to see the admin lied and cheated right up to their very last breath.. and they had plenty of people lined up to suck it all up. Well folks with frozen assets its a little difficult to do things like make payroll and give loan refunds so good luck to all of you, especially those who are looking at repeating 2 full years of basic sci.. not to mention what u will have to do for with clinicals which may or may not count at your new school. Its a real pity.. i'm gonna paypal $20 to the lawyer fund.

Scott1981
03-29-2006, 05:19 PM
sad to see the admin lied and cheated right up to their very last breath.. and they had plenty of people lined up to suck it all up. Well folks with frozen assets its a little difficult to do things like make payroll and give loan refunds so good luck to all of you, especially those who are looking at repeating 2 full years of basic sci.. not to mention what u will have to do for with clinicals which may or may not count at your new school. Its a real pity.. i'm gonna paypal $20 to the lawyer fund.

does SC have assets in the US? if they do, then wouldnt it be prudent to file in the states as well?

endorphin
03-29-2006, 05:30 PM
You’re just full of encouragement aren’t you?

endorphin
03-29-2006, 05:36 PM
What hurt's, Mr. Intern?

machine12
03-30-2006, 01:08 PM
does SC have assets in the US? if they do, then wouldnt it be prudent to file in the states as well?

I beleive they do but I am unsure of this.

hydatiform
03-30-2006, 06:28 PM
I beleive they do but I am unsure of this.

I've done a ton of research off the forum. You people are actually unsure of a ton of crap. But it doesn't shut any of you up, does it now? Not even the current SC students speculate and plot as much as you do.

neilrais
03-30-2006, 10:47 PM
I am a St. Chris grad, first graduating class to be exact, June 2001. I attended classes at SCCM when it had a Cambridge campus, and new students had the option of attending classes in Senegal. My credentials were certified by the FCVS who contacted Senegal.

I left Cambridge in June 1999, and busted my *** to convince Harbor hospital in Baltimore to give me clinical spots, which in turn afforded other SCCM spots there. Im not blowing my own horn, just saying that you do more pounding on doors and presenting yourself well to people in a situation to help than you do beating your head against a door for what HAS happened, can't change it, do your best and people will help. Just FYI my 4th year was done at LJ Chabert in Houma, LA and some spots at Ochsner in New Orleans.

What Im trying to say is that there have always been doubts and worries about attending off-shore (and now off-continent) med schools. I hope you all realize that there are many (not sure of the %, but id say >1/4) practicing physicians who are US born/non US trained (ie IMG's), of which I am one. We KNOW what it's like to be uncertain, and many are willing to help, although I know it likely will not be helping to save SCCM. But if you need a lead to what school to transfer to, or if you have questions regarding the IMG to practicing US physician tract, I for one would at least attempt to answer questions.

I am using my real name, I feel compelled to help bc I HAVE BEEN THERE.

https://license.ohio.gov/Lookup/SearchDetail.asp?ContactIdnt=3028789&DivisionIdnt=78&Type=L

http://www.forumhealth.org/forumhealth/physicians/physicians_results.asp?Page=6&Specialty=Pediatrics&Name=


Good Luck,
Neil

machine12
04-01-2006, 02:30 AM
I've done a ton of research off the forum. You people are actually unsure of a ton of crap. But it doesn't shut any of you up, does it now? Not even the current SC students speculate and plot as much as you do.


ah I am a current SC student. :bored:

the forums are a great place to do what you just said, speculate and plot.

seems like you are not effected by this whole thing so why bother post?

many people have lost money, time, efforts out of this and you can argue all day at whos fault it was but the fact is fraud was and still is something that came out of this.

hydatiform
04-02-2006, 07:19 PM
On the contrary. I am affected because I DID once go there and I am interested to see how things turn out for you (hopefully for the best) because I have many friends who are still there and are intelligent, caring, capable people. I wish them the best and for your sake as well, Machine, I hope the school recovers and rebuilds nicely.


ah I am a current SC student. :bored:

the forums are a great place to do what you just said, speculate and plot.

seems like you are not effected by this whole thing so why bother post?

many people have lost money, time, efforts out of this and you can argue all day at whos fault it was but the fact is fraud was and still is something that came out of this.

machine12
04-04-2006, 01:14 AM
yah i hope so too but Im starting to give up, the SGU offer was and still is very tempting....official transcript is needed however.

dt
04-04-2006, 01:29 AM
Given that you are starting over again at SGU, ask them if they would take the latest copy you have at hand. Its most likely they would understand the difficulty of getting an official transcript right now, and that you are working hard at getting them the official transcript.

jrosenberg
04-04-2006, 11:14 AM
I am just trying to understand the ruling. But how far does it go? If you graduated med school from St. Chris are you allowed to apply for a residency or is your whole degree worthles? If you took the boards do you have to redo all basic science?

hydatiform
04-04-2006, 11:31 AM
I agree. If you are willing to dish out the cash and deal with the wrath of current SGU students (not all), take the SGU offer. It's a great one!

acgtagctacgt
05-30-2006, 11:47 AM
How is it going to work out?

azskeptic
05-30-2006, 11:49 AM
anyone getting access to their transcripts from SC?

Tritonesub
05-31-2006, 02:07 AM
Yup, Senegal has them.

azskeptic
05-31-2006, 05:26 AM
Yup, Senegal has them. So any former SC student who needs their transcripts can get them from SCIMD?

Tritonesub
05-31-2006, 01:54 PM
Yup, Senegal has them.

Is there an echo in the room??

microphage
06-01-2006, 01:18 AM
Is there an echo in the room??

Is there an echo in the room??

teratos
06-01-2006, 04:27 AM
Is there an echo in the room??

Why, YES!!! it appears there is!

AUCMD2006
06-01-2006, 06:03 AM
there is

theeere iiss

Milrinone
06-03-2006, 07:28 AM
I heard "Mbelize has them"

tanisha
06-19-2006, 09:07 AM
I heard "Mbelize has them"

are there any students who still attend st. chris? were they students from the now defunct original st. chris that transfeered into st chris imd or are the st. chris imd students new? mua belize is done with. as some have heard or know by now teri loans are off at this school. no student who attends will be eligible to receive them. i am asking because st. chris imd website looks legit or nice, yet when i call the school it goes straight to voice-mail or the lady who picks up the phone has kind of an attitiude. in my opinion, with the drama st. chis has been in, i would be even glad that that a bug was calling in to see what is going on. who has time for that nonsense. i am not bashing the school and i konw they are trying to get all paper work in the right perspective but come on now...be for real. the woman said that now they have gotten ecfmg certification back they are now working on trying to get GMC approval. I just called the school and i am sent directly to voicemail which I cannot leave a meassage by the way because it is saying that it is full. does anyone truly think st. chris will ever come out from this mess?

rangness
06-19-2006, 01:46 PM
Yes, there are students back. classes are up and running. its not a transfer for us. so you called our new NY office? i'm sorry if they seemed rude...i know they are short staffed over there so can be really busy at times.

azskeptic
06-19-2006, 01:48 PM
Yes, there are students back. classes are up and running. its not a transfer for us. so you called our new NY office? i'm sorry if they seemed rude...i know they are short staffed over there so can be really busy at times.SC-IMD is apparently claiming to be the original SC. How are the medical boards seeing it?

tanisha
06-19-2006, 11:01 PM
SC-IMD is apparently claiming to be the original SC. How are the medical boards seeing it?

this does not look good at all for the students, seriously though,. to the young woman who said that the classes are up and running, are you not scared come licensing time. it was stringly advised that until this school has a proven track record-to clearly stay away.

md2011
06-20-2006, 09:04 AM
These poor students are still in denial. Sc-IMD is a totally NEW SCHOOL due to adding IBA MAR DIOP in front of original SC name. ScIMD will have some track record in at least 6 years but it will be gone by next year because Mr PL is still involved. The new President Mr FS and PL have so many investments togather that they will never seperate their bussiness dealings otherwise they both will be sitting in jail because they have swindelled so much Key Bank and Terri loans. Students should be realistic and should admit the failure and move on with their life and education. That is the truth.

TAFKA
06-20-2006, 12:59 PM
SC-IMD is apparently claiming to be the original SC. How are the medical boards seeing it?SCIMD-COM (former name SC-COM) has been operating continuously under a single Senegalese charter since 2000 and in 2003 was taken into the Senegalese Universite El Hadji Ibrahima NIASSE as one of two medical colleges that function within its university system: Ecole de Médecine St Christopher Iba Mar Diop in Dakar and SCIMD-COM in Luton. The charter and academic affiliations have remained constant since 2000 and 2003, respectively. The British company that formerly handled admissions and day-to-day operations in the UK (named St. Christopher's College of Medicine, LTD) and the American company that formerly handled admissions and day-to-day operations in North America (named St. Christopher's College of Medicine, LLC), both owned by PL, have since been dismissed of any role in the operations of SCIMD-COM. Although this is essentially the story, it is a simplification because there were more than just two companies formed. FS was an officer and part-owner in one or more of these companies, but his role with SCIMD-COM is a new one and does not reflect a continuation of any partnership with PL.

md2011
06-20-2006, 01:17 PM
Sc-IMD is a new School and do not try to make it appear that it is the old Sc_SOM. Sc is dead, finished, gone. That is the TRUTH. Now PL's partner FS is the new owner of this new SC-IBD with the Backup student records which he stole from his good friend and partner PL. Courts will decide the fate of PL and also FS. They are still partners because they bought so much togather in Canada, Florida and Central America. Just wait. And please for GOD's sake do not try to start the same crap which BTS and his company has done in past. No one should attend this new Corroupt Sc-IMD or they will loose every peny the spent on their education. Stop spreading the false information to potential students.

md2011
06-20-2006, 01:47 PM
Here is another FOOD fo thought. Every $ that was paid to old SCSOM the New owner of NEW SC-IMD MR FS took 40 cents of ever $ that was paid between 2000-2005. Now you know why FS is giving you full tution credits because he already has your MONEY. HE is not some GOD sent Savior you have paid him over the past 5 years. He made so much being with PL in this medical school bussiness that being a CPA he will never make that kind of MONEY. It is all about Money that is why FS can not let it GO. Think what a CPA has to do with a MEDICAL SCHOOL OR MEDICINE. MEDICAL SCHOOL with A CPA as a president. WHAT a JOKE???????????

azskeptic
06-20-2006, 06:41 PM
doesn't appear to be Senegal

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=www.stchris.edu

tanisha
06-20-2006, 11:48 PM
SCIMD-COM (former name SC-COM) has been operating continuously under a single Senegalese charter since 2000 and in 2003 was taken into the Senegalese Universite El Hadji Ibrahima NIASSE as one of two medical colleges that function within its university system: Ecole de Médecine St Christopher Iba Mar Diop in Dakar and SCIMD-COM in Luton. The charter and academic affiliations have remained constant since 2000 and 2003, respectively. The British company that formerly handled admissions and day-to-day operations in the UK (named St. Christopher's College of Medicine, LTD) and the American company that formerly handled admissions and day-to-day operations in North America (named St. Christopher's College of Medicine, LLC), both owned by PL, have since been dismissed of any role in the operations of SCIMD-COM. Although this is essentially the story, it is a simplification because there were more than just two companies formed. FS was an officer and part-owner in one or more of these companies, but his role with SCIMD-COM is a new one and does not reflect a continuation of any partnership with PL.

since you the students are currently attending classes, can you pm me so that i can get a number to personally speak to one of the administrators. i have questions that i would really appreciate some answering. i have called the main number that is on the new website and as i stated before it just says the voice mail box is full. also out of curiousity, how diverse are the med school classes? are there any nigerians or africns that attend here as most of my friends are african. just curious is all. thanks.

tanisha
06-21-2006, 08:39 AM
since you the students are currently attending classes, can you pm me so that i can get a number to personally speak to one of the administrators. i have questions that i would really appreciate some answering. i have called the main number that is on the new website and as i stated before it just says the voice mail box is full. also out of curiousity, how diverse are the med school classes? are there any nigerians or africns that attend here as most of my friends are african. just curious is all. thanks.

wow!!! i have not yet received a post from anyone? md2011 perhaps you are right about this school? maybe anyway thanks for the look out!!!

Milrinone
06-21-2006, 09:08 PM
Like you I've been trying to contact people from the school. The phone numbers are no longer working numbers. I transfered to another school but I still have questions to make. I still need transcripts to be send to ECFMG, etc. What they did with my money, only God Knows... all I can said is that people like that will never succeed. They can invent 100 medical schools and will always fail.


wow!!! i have not yet received a post from anyone? md2011 perhaps you are right about this school? maybe anyway thanks for the look out!!!

Milrinone
06-21-2006, 09:14 PM
doesn't appear to be Senegal

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=www.stchris.edu

Interesting...who is that guy from FL?
Is that the one from Ross?
Dates of activation goes with the date of opening the school.
Who knows..........:confused:

Asteri
08-25-2006, 02:43 PM
REFUND from ST CHRIS!! does anyone know if and how money can be refunded to the students?If so who is handeling the case?????????????also, whats the status with transcripts now??is anyone left at the school????
-aster

Milrinone
08-28-2006, 07:38 PM
REFUND from ST CHRIS!! does anyone know if and how money can be refunded to the students?If so who is handeling the case?????????????also, whats the status with transcripts now??is anyone left at the school????
-aster

PM Tanisha maybe she can help you with that.

Bhoot
10-28-2006, 08:58 PM
the suit against the school is being wrangled in the US in a NJ court (the only likely case that will yield refunds), PriceCooperWaterhouse is dealing with student records in the UK, and yes, the school is still open, has students rotating in clinicals, etc. (The version of the school that split from L. and is directly controlled by Senegal now).

ak7083
11-08-2006, 11:05 PM
Is this school still solvent and operational?

MYMD
11-10-2006, 02:45 PM
Is this school still solvent and operational?

WOW did you see the above post?

snow
12-03-2006, 09:24 PM
DId this school shutdown ?
the website is not uploading and noone's returning phone calls
Anyone who knows please let me know whats the current status!
iam confused and concerned !

thank you

Milrinone
12-06-2006, 11:55 AM
DId this school shutdown ?
the website is not uploading and noone's returning phone calls
Anyone who knows please let me know whats the current status!
iam confused and concerned !

thank you

try: stchrisimd.com it should work

pruritis_ani
12-06-2006, 04:37 PM
try: stchrisimd.com it should work

Or better yet, try another school. If your academic record is so bad that you can only attend this school, I highly recommend going back and improving it. This school is a 100% waste of time.

rangness
12-18-2006, 03:31 PM
Or better yet, try another school. If your academic record is so bad that you can only attend this school, I highly recommend going back and improving it. This school is a 100% waste of time.

waste of time....yet, you spend your time making comments on our forum.

pruritis_ani
12-18-2006, 04:04 PM
waste of time....yet, you spend your time making comments on our forum.

Yep. To hopefully prevent some people from making a horrible, horrible mistake.

Too late for some, though. Or perhaps they just don't care about a useful degree. Or can't get in somewhere else. Some sad stories out there.

empathy
12-18-2006, 05:12 PM
Does this thread still need to be tacked up here? Old subject. Can't we let it sink now?







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