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Thread: Psychiatry??? in 2017?

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    hockeyfan23 is offline Junior Member 511 points
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    Psychiatry??? in 2017?

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    Hello,

    I am a future student who is attending in Sep 2013. I was just wondering what the current students' thoughts are on psych and obtaining a residency in a few years. I know we have no idea what is going on or what will happen, but I thought it would be interesting to hear the current student perspectives currently pursuing this area of medicine. Ease of obtaining a residency? High demand & high rewarding field? Thoughts?

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    cms is offline Member 514 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan23 View Post
    Hello,

    I am a future student who is attending in Sep 2013. I was just wondering what the current students' thoughts are on psych and obtaining a residency in a few years. I know we have no idea what is going on or what will happen, but I thought it would be interesting to hear the current student perspectives currently pursuing this area of medicine. Ease of obtaining a residency? High demand & high rewarding field? Thoughts?
    Historically Psych has the lowest average STEP-1 scores for interviews. Beyond that probably anything else is speculation. You should be ok.
    Basic Sciences [x] Cores [X] Step 2 CK [] Step 2 CS []

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    ..........
    Last edited by finishingfifth; 03-06-2013 at 02:30 PM. Reason: duplicate post
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    I think that the advice "you should be ok" is dangerous and capricious, and it is advice from someone who frankly does not know what they are talking about. I am an AUC alum, completed a general psych residency at major university program, and I am now a fellow in child and adolescent psych at the same institution. In my tenure I served as the first IMG president of a residency council for a university hospital, have seerved on the admission commitee for the medical school, and have selected people for residency and fellowship. (ie, I actually know about this stuff).

    We had 1200 applicants for 8 spots. We selected people who had steps above 220, had good psych and neuro scores in basic sciences, good letters of rec, and we selected American grads first, the second round was for American citizens with an MD from abroad and DO's, then came the people requiring a visa. Our field has become more competivite as managed care changes have decreased the compensation for procedure based fields. The median job offer I am looking at is between 300-500K. Thats working 9-5, with little call. a combo of good lifestyle, good hours, and personal satisfaction make psych a tough field to match in. Years ago anesthesia, ER, and pathology were easy to match into, but as American grads have gravitated towards "lifestyle" fields, this has changed. I would contend that you try to score as high as possible and find a mentor who is a pscyhiatrist. Also be sure to apply broadly to every hospital that has accepted a caribbean grad for psych resident. I wish you the best on your path to becoming our colleague.
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    dw9211 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by finishingfifth View Post
    I think that the advice "you should be ok" is dangerous and capricious, and it is advice from someone who frankly does not know what they are talking about. I am an AUC alum, completed a general psych residency at major university program, and I am now a fellow in child and adolescent psych at the same institution. In my tenure I served as the first IMG president of a residency council for a university hospital, have seerved on the admission commitee for the medical school, and have selected people for residency and fellowship. (ie, I actually know about this stuff).

    We had 1200 applicants for 8 spots. We selected people who had steps above 220, had good psych and neuro scores in basic sciences, good letters of rec, and we selected American grads first, the second round was for American citizens with an MD from abroad and DO's, then came the people requiring a visa. Our field has become more competivite as managed care changes have decreased the compensation for procedure based fields. The median job offer I am looking at is between 300-500K. Thats working 9-5, with little call. a combo of good lifestyle, good hours, and personal satisfaction make psych a tough field to match in. Years ago anesthesia, ER, and pathology were easy to match into, but as American grads have gravitated towards "lifestyle" fields, this has changed. I would contend that you try to score as high as possible and find a mentor who is a pscyhiatrist. Also be sure to apply broadly to every hospital that has accepted a caribbean grad for psych resident. I wish you the best on your path to becoming our colleague.
    In the metro Detroit area (where I'm from) the average salary for a psychiatrist is 200k. 241k is 90th percentile according to salary.com. Are you going to be Warren Buffett's psychiatrist? Who is going to pay you more than a surgeon to prescribe Abilify for them?
    Psychiatry continues to be one of the least competitive residencies out there. Just because you say you are psych resident do not believe for a minute people are going to believe your **. Anyone can go to the NRMP website and read "Charting Outcomes for the Match." It will answer all their questions about how competitive each field is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dw9211 View Post
    In the metro Detroit area (where I'm from) the average salary for a psychiatrist is 200k. 241k is 90th percentile according to salary.com. Are you going to be Warren Buffett's psychiatrist? Who is going to pay you more than a surgeon to prescribe Abilify for them?
    Psychiatry continues to be one of the least competitive residencies out there. Just because you say you are psych resident do not believe for a minute people are going to believe your **. Anyone can go to the NRMP website and read "Charting Outcomes for the Match." It will answer all their questions about how competitive each field is.
    1. I'm not a resident, I'm boarded and I am in fellowship. Just like a cardiologist makes more than internist, the same applies to my fellowship.

    2. Salary.com, really?
    3. Pay is lower in metro areas, higher in the suburbs and smaller cities. Also salaries can be as low as 90k for academic positions, I'm not going for one of those.
    4. When I say 300-500k, that's total compensation. For example, I have an offer for 203k for an employed position at an inpatient facility. The rounding there takes about 4 hours. Then I have offers for Medicaid rehabs in the afternoon, these are one afternoon a week, and pay about 40-50k each. Then I can set up my own private clinic if I choose. There is also paid consulting work for forensic evals. Also, unlike other fields, psych call (from home) is often paid, at the rate of around 1k per day. Perhaps I should have explained that better. I did so when I was asked to lecture at auc as a distinguished alumni.
    5. We are online, so you are free to be insulting. But I have helped the careers of many carib grads. They rotate at one of my sites. If you do a rotation at Brentwood Hospital, please come say hello. We can discuss it further.
    6. Believe me or don't, psych is getting harder. And disparaging a field of medicine reflects poorly on you, when on the wards, keep that to yourself, it will help your career.
    7. I haven't worked with Mr. Buffett, but if your anger persists and you are struggling, please PM me. I'll help you find a colleague to offer you help if its required.
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    1. I'm not a resident, I'm boarded and I am in fellowship. Just like a cardiologist makes more than internist, the same applies to my fellowship.

    2. Salary.com, really?
    3. Pay is lower in metro areas, higher in the suburbs and smaller cities. Also salaries can be as low as 90k for academic positions, I'm not going for one of those.
    4. When I say 300-500k, that's total compensation. For example, I have an offer for 203k for an employed position at an inpatient facility. The rounding there takes about 4 hours. Then I have offers for Medicaid rehabs in the afternoon, these are one afternoon a week, and pay about 40-50k each. Then I can set up my own private clinic if I choose. There is also paid consulting work for forensic evals. Also, unlike other fields, psych call (from home) is often paid, at the rate of around 1k per day. Perhaps I should have explained that better. I did so when I was asked to lecture at auc as a distinguished alumni.
    5. We are online, so you are free to be insulting. But I have helped the careers of many carib grads. They rotate at one of my sites. If you do a rotation at Brentwood Hospital, please come say hello. We can discuss it further.
    6. Believe me or don't, psych is getting harder. And disparaging a field of medicine reflects poorly on you, when on the wards, keep that to yourself, it will help your career.
    7. I haven't worked with Mr. Buffett, but if your anger persists and you are struggling, please PM me. I'll help you find a colleague to offer you help if its required.
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    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12699 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by finishingfifth View Post
    5. We are online, so you are free to be insulting.
    Free to, yes... but one comes off as no less a buffoon.

    Thanks for the info, finishingfifth. Sounds like you will have some excellent options coming out of fellowship.

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    dw9211 is offline Member
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    I am not mad nor am I discouraging the field of psychiatry. However, I think you are embelishing your statements. I don't know what your reasoning for this is. Including your benefit package in the calculation of your salary is misleading. I am not a student so I will not run into you down in Lousiana. I am in emergency medicine and I have been around long enough to know when someone is talking out there butt. You think salary.com is stupid but then you quote your actual 200k offer that is exactly what salary.com says is average. If you want to work two or three jobs you obviously are going to make more money. If I worked three jobs in ER I could make 1 mil/yr, but I wouldn't be happy working 60+hours/week.
    I you want to go into Psych and you like the field, have at it, but don't think that you are going to rolling in the dough. People that go into Psych don't go into it for the money.
    Is psych getting more competitive? yes, but all fields are getting more competitive.
    I would not want to be an incoming Carib student going into any field, not just psych.
    It might end up being more competitive in 2017 than FP or Peds just because there are less psych residencies out there which leads to more competition, but that doesn't mean it is very competitive now. Right now if you have average steps and no red flags you are a shoe in for psych if thats what you want to do. I can back up my talk with stats. I would once again refer those interested to check the NRMP website.

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    devildoc8404 is offline Ultimate Member 12699 points
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    You may have skimmed the offending post in your rush between patients.

    From my reading, it described a 200k job that included a 4-hour workdays, leaving significant time left for other professional activities within the scope of a 40-hour work week, if one so desired. S/he wasn`t talking about 60 hours per week, based on the math I was putting together.

    The current market for Child and Adolescent Psychiatry is pretty hot. You may not be following that from your EM gig, but it`s still the truth. Based on my discussions with graduating psychiatrists in the US, these numbers are pretty spot-on. If you want a big city, or an academic gig, it`s a lot less money. Branch out from there, and it can be decently lucrative.
    binojmatthew likes this.

    "When I haven't any
    blue... I use red
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    - Pablo Picasso

    BA - Oregon MS - BYU MD - MU-Sofia
    Clinical Research Fellow / Resident
    Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman 1996-2003


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