The reason I say it is a rumor is just because that professo that you are speaking of may have told you the reason was because he was asking for more supplies, but this is not completely true. He is very opinionated, and takes a strong stand on his beliefs. Kinda butted heads with administration. Him wanting more supplies is a very small part of the story, and probably the only part that he could let you in on. But in either case I have nothing but respect for that Prof, and was a great educator. I called that a rumor when I guess I should have said not completely true.

I am not ignoring everything you said. I am trying to point out the things you are not saying. The simple truths that you fail to mention when making a statement like, "if someone asks me Xavier or St. James, i would say Xavier". I do more than simply say, when someone asks me St. James or Xavier, it would still have to be St. James. You've listed all the negatives of SJSM, so since we got that out the way let me list at least the positives of the school that you failed to mention.

1. St. James school of medicine Basic Sciences continues to build. The old hospital building is continuosly being renovated and I believe 2 or 3 more classrooms will be made available for class. When I started at SJSM, that building was just acquired and the plan was in place to start the moving of classes to it. That was 16 months ago. It is now in the process of happening.

2. The clinical rotations program is BOOMING. New sites are being contracted often (some not even on the website), and the clinical experience we can get during rotations is great. The students in rotations have been making a great name for St. James and it is exciting to hear that St. James is making a real name for itself. Also, the amount of students in the clinicals program as of right now is great (I believe it is 90+, which is more than triple the number of 16 months ago) and will only increase with the start of clinicals for the the large class before me and my class. Not to mention those students that are transferring to SJSM clinical program due to the amount of new slots available.

3. People are getting residencies left and right. As you know, the school started with a small number of students and a few clinical transfers. Today, many of these students will be getting residency spots and 1 of the students that is soon to be finishing up his residency, will be applying for licensure (I forget which state he will be applying for). We will anxiously be waiting the good news of the first licensed grad.

4. The management is doing something right to be able to make the strides that SJSM is making in the 5 years of existance. If you look at the bigger picture, you'd see that there is growth all around SJSM, slow in some areas, faster in other areas.

I am sure I am preaching to the choir, because you know all this already, however, you failed to mention any of this in any of your posts. If the faster growth of the facilities is your main argument, then by all means go to a school like Xavier who have poured a lot of money into making a nice campus. Management might seem like a downside to SJSM in your opinion, but knowing what you know about the mangement of Xavier, you really can't make a case for them either.


Let me explain something, I take your post personally because despite what you think, it is NO WAY a case of out-of-sight, out-of-mind on my part. This is the school that provided the opportunity for me to pursue a dream I've had since I was a kid. They've looked out for me and many other students, when we needed them to. So to hear you say these things really is not fair. Frankenstone, you know and I know that it takes time to get anything done on the island, unless you do pour in a ton of money to make it happen. And that is why all of us were so appreciative of your efforts to get the library in the shape that it is today and the nice sign that the school flaunts everyday. Had we waitied on others to do it, it would probably not have gotten done so quickly. I stepped onto the St. James campus on 1/7/04 and left on 4/24/05. I can not tell you the amount of change that has taken place since then. The upgrading of the student lounge (new people will be taking over the food sales), the library, the conducting of the first class in the new building, the new offices in the new building, the renovation and expansion of the MD1 class. I mean the list goes on. Maybe not as fast as you or I would like in that aspect, but it is still slow and steady progress. When I first came to the island, I befriended a few of the MD4 students that were there over a year prior and they were saying how good WE got it with regards to the building. I think their first classes were in the resort or somethig like that. So, sorry that things are not moving as fast as you would like them to move. The fact of the matter remains that the SJSM that I encountered 16 months ago and the SJSM of taday is not the same and is moving in the direction that I along with many others, are happy to see. We are able to speak to other students in rotations doing their thing and it is a good feeling that keeps us optimistic. If the fact of the matter remains that you would like a nicer building, in order for you to become an excellent Physician, then by all means transfer to Xavier and live out your dreams. But please don't try to cut-down SJSM in the process. Your post had a bashing undertone, even if that is not what you intended to do. I will not harp anymore on that post because clearly you have made it known that you did not mean it in that way.

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Bigger, stronger, higher, faster...I am my only master....even after I get what I'm after...Bigger, stronger, higher, faster....-Haziq

"Move forward and rise above......so you can settle into where you want to be......"

your thread titile is still wrong... I think you meant to say " transferred from St. James to Xavier.......

And any thoughts from Suktinder... Are you really enjoying this?

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Bigger, stronger, higher, faster...I am my only master....even after I get what I'm after...Bigger, stronger, higher, faster....-Haziq

"Move forward and rise above......so you can settle into where you want to be......"

I am with you on the things you say about the rotations. But what about the promises, addressing student and faculty needs, and licensing in the future.

I can live with an old building, but when I didn't have a qualified teacher for Micro this whole semester and I had to self learn, I don't like that. Or you atys doing without professors for part of the semester. Come on, that is an old problem that still hasn't been fixed. This is an old old problem paying students shouldn't have to deal with every semester, they should worry about studying. What kind of consistent education is this. Know the problem and do what you have to to fix it. That's all I ask. This also happened to you guys during your second semester.

Is future licensing not a concern for you. They said in August that they would apply for their first recognition in two years. Heck the first year is almost over and nothing has improved since then. Facilities, labs, consistent syllabi, steady professors, are just a few of the many qualifications necessary to get state approvals. The MD 3 class in the old hospital is a filthy mess. We complained and it still hasn't been maintained. he classroom gets swept but the hall and entrance foyer, has dirt, trash, and dead bugs everywhere. I don't know where the renovations are occuring but all these classes were supposed to be moved in by the summer. Not happening. Cadaver lab was promised with the dates getting moved up till this past March. Still nothing. There is nothing even close to being ready for a cadaver lab. 3 or 4 years down the road when licensing might be an issue, will St. james have any approvals? That is my concern. If he can't get a hold of these smaller problems how the heck is he gonna get a state approval. Licensing is getting more and more strict and, in everybody's interest, all school's should be moving toward approval.

I just want to see St. James moving forward to get a site visit and I am tired of seeing the two steps forward, one step back way of doing things. It doesn't hurt the president, it hurts all of us and I don't want to see it happen that way. **** has the money to put in the school now with the enrollment. What's the hold up?

About the administration, Ron. Despite what goes on between the schools, the fact still remains that they are putting money into the schools and they are doing things that St. James is not. For the students, that is great. That is it. Has nothing to do with anything else. The questions for every student should be:

What is the admin doing to improve the image for the school in respects to licensure?

Does the admin do significant things to improve the learning environment for the students to pass the boards?

Is there a solid investment at this school? Past experience is an indicator of future performance.

All I ever hear from the President, is I don't want to spend the money. There are many things at St. James that would improve it greatly for minimal amounts of money.

Fact of the matter, Xavier is doing what they have to for the improvement of there school in all these areas. That's it. No if, ands, or buts about it. People don't listen to anyone anymore about St. James because thing rarely come about or on time.

All in all, Licensure and quality of education is what I am concerned about the most. And SJ is not doing the things they need to do to get any state approvals in the next few years. Quality of education is not bad but not getting any better. Sure won't impress anyone coming on site visits.

I would like to see things change there and I hope for the students they do. This going forward and back and forward has got to stop. Xavier is going forward and forward and forward. I and any student feels that they are there to help you succeed.

I still love you Docron..

Frankenstone :cry: :wink:

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I am older than I look.

This moderator is still continuing in the same modality. I noticed on another site he was suggested to be the number one moderator. I was impressed by him as well. But there is continued propoganda. To an educated person, it seems to me that for someone who hasn't even really started studying much at this school, that there must be enrollment issues at his school. And that the administration sees the ValueMD site as important for recruitment. I don't know a medical school anywhere that doesn't move two steps forward and one step back. With the budget crises we had a few years ago in the states, most state medical schools are going 2 steps back one step forward, if we were lucky. And with the flat budget at NIH these coming years, research medical schools that have at least a third of their budget from NIH dollars are going to suffer more. Be grateful you are at a school that has enrollment growth, and new facilities in sight. Many US medical schools are not replacing basic science faculty once they retire. And you are lucky to get 50 percent of your salary tenurable, with the rest you have to apply for grants and contracts from extramural sources. As long as SJSM has low tuition it will not grow as fast as you want. That is one reason Spartan has not grown so much over the years. Dear moderator get back on track and enjoy your education. Don't make Bonaire seem like Philadelphia with numerous medical schools in the same city battling out between each other.

I'm not continuing the "modality", I am responding to comments and clarifying facts. So whatever you feel I am telling my opinion. PRof, unless you experience both schools, you shouldn't comment or make parallels.

There are many schools that move forward and up, schools like St. Matthews, MUA and others are doing well and improving steadily and they don't have high tuitions - yet. SJ is getting 35+ students a semester now for several semesters. Do the math and tell me there is no money.

Prof, don't preach to me about educated people and what you see. I well know the shortcommings of Xavier. My experience is based on recent exposure at both schools. Why are you commenting on schools you haven't visited or experienced.

I have been on ValueMD long enough to know that my reputation as a moderator will not be in question with comments by you that allude to me as being someone who works for the school admin. This site was not put up at the request of Xavier. It was put up by DOC. So you shouldn't be so presumptuous.

Both schools are on the island. You can become an MD at both. But, my observations show that Xavier is doing more because of better management and more involvement, also, there are no loans at SJ for U.S. students. If you see it another way then I can't help that.

This is my last post on this thread.

Frankenstone

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I am older than I look.

Frankenstone, I said I lost a little love for you, but you know I have much love for you so we are definitely still good ...

Just remember that the professor situation we faced started with Xavier stealing our professor when I was in MD 2. That prof was offered more money to teach at Xavier and he tried to be slick by trying to teach at both schools. Also, the reason we didn't have a prof for the first few weeks is because Xavier paid our Path prof more money, and witout any notice he left SJSM. without any notice. Same thing with our Epidemiology prof. Shows a lack of class on their part, but again, those profs and Xavier were thinking about themselves and didn't care what happened to the students of SJSM. Your Micro situation was a problem, but unfortunately students suffered from the immigration problem because 2 profs (one micro and one path) were sent back home becaue they didn't have all the new documentation the island requires when they got to the Bonaire airport. These are sad situations, but these are problems that we have to face as they come.


What is the admin doing to improve the image for the school in respects to licensure?

With regards to licensing; clinical sites and affiliations are a very important part of future licensing. You know and I know that is a big strength that St. James has and it is taking great strides in that aspect. That is undeniable. I KNOW that Xavier WILL expand their clinicals program with time also.

Does the admin do significant things to improve the learning environment for the students to pass the boards?

Many of the more established caribbean med schools have been started in barns and old shacks. The students were the ones that made the school what they are today. As always stated, 90% of the work of med school is on the student. Would I have liked the new SJSM building to have been ready when I was studying in Bonaire? Yes, for sure!!! Would that have helped me do better in classes and in the USMLE step 1? Of course not. If that was the case no student at Ross or SGU or AUC would ever fail the USMLE, because they have the greatest facilities in the caribbean.


Is there a solid investment at this school? Past experience is an indicator of future performance.

Again, it is very obvious that there is excellent growth with regards to the number of students entering the Basic Sciences as well as those entering Clincals Program. The newly acquired building in Bonaire has always been a slow project. We all know that. It took time for the new offices and first class to be moved in there. But it was done. Two or three more classrooms are being prepared for use. When will the entire project be completed and every class be held in the building? Only time will tell, but again, it remains slow and steady progress. Unfortunately, this project isn't moving as fast as other aspects of SJSM, but it IS still moving. Once this project is complete, SJSM will be one step closer to being prepared for site visits by accrediting bodies.

This back and forth stops today for me as well...

And I do respect the fact, Frankenstone, that you were very professional and respectful throughout this entire discussion... Those are very important characteristics that will help make you a great doctor... Good luck to you Frankenstone and all the students of Xavier. I wish you all the best that life has to offer...

Again, we are still good ....

__________________
Bigger, stronger, higher, faster...I am my only master....even after I get what I'm after...Bigger, stronger, higher, faster....-Haziq

"Move forward and rise above......so you can settle into where you want to be......"

You are correct it is difficult to truly ascertain the status of schools without visiting them. Being on ValueMD allows us to get some glimmer of what makes the schools tick, albeit this can be slanted by the limited number of people that get on this site. That is why I have looked to the moderators. Definately an interesting thread, thanks for letting me be part of it. I wish you and DocRon the best for you future studies.

You probably want to change the title again. Try "from St. James to Xavier"? maybe?

Looks like the "party" is on the Xavier forum now!!!

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"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to."

"Many of the more established caribbean med schools have been started in barns and old shacks"

this argument holds no value. harvard, yale, oxford, cambridge all started as in a single room with no grants, reputation, etc but that is not were they are now. the big carib schools may have started in shacks but that is not the case now....all these schools have a niche they fill but why limit yourself if you don't have to?

and as far as 90% of work being on the student that is true and may be the case for exams, it is the logistic support that the big schools have that we pay so much more for. its nice to have a full time graduation certification dept, its nice to have a full time licensure attorney a phone call away......

each school has its purpose and in time sj and xavier will find their way but don't belittle the importance of the support these "diploma mills" as frank calls them, offer their students. its up to me to pass the exams, but i sleep better at night knowing that there is a whole office in miami dedicxated to getting me licensed....albeit slow from what i hear...hehe

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OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!