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  1. #1
    opinion is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Caaam-hp accreditation news

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    Hey guys, I have been hearing news from students in St Kitts that windsor has been denied caam-hp for the second time. If that is the case students will not be eligible to transfer to other accredited schools starting from september semester. School might be heading to a close down by 2018 because of the ECFMG rules. Faculty is encouraging students to transfer out and they are also leaving the school.

  2. #2
    CNS11 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by opinion View Post
    Hey guys, I have been hearing news from students in St Kitts that windsor has been denied caam-hp for the second time. If that is the case students will not be eligible to transfer to other accredited schools starting from september semester. School might be heading to a close down by 2018 because of the ECFMG rules. Faculty is encouraging students to transfer out and they are also leaving the school.
    I understand not being able to transfer, but could you elaborate on the whole "closing down" situation?

  3. #3
    Baju12 is offline Newbie 510 points
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    So this is the thing, Windsor is supposed to be an Offshore Medical School geared towards the US Curriculum and allowing students the opportunity to write USMLE Step 1 and gain residency in the US.
    ECFMG has put in place new accreditation guidelines that take effect from 2022/23. Within these guidelines it states the ECFMG certificates which are required to sit Step 1 will only be issued to students from accredited institutions (with accreditation paralleled to the US Curriculum). The agency responsible for this in the Cairbbean is CAAM-HP. Some schools like UMHS etc use ACIM (Based in Ireland). So considering that CAAM-HP has increased its requirements, and works on a 2-year cycle, Windsor, having failed its last assessment now has to wait to 2019 to be re-evaluated with a decision to come down in 2020. Given that Windsor has lost the plot recently and predominantly recruit Nigerian and Indian students with little to no chance of getting into the us for bureaucratic reasons (and most nigerian students return home to practice) there is little to look forward to. With UMHS building a dominance on the island and Windsor offering very little in terms of hope for students, their business model is failing. To this end, ask any present student, in Summer 2017 (May 2017) there were NO incoming students into the PM1 class, and only 3 new students into the MD1. If the administration knows they are going to be unable to secure CAAM-HP (bribery is not out of the option given the school is indian-owned) they may see it fit to close the doors. Multiple professors have indeed advised the better performing students to transfer out as soon as possible and have began to pursue other options themselves in places like Guyana, Canada, and in some cases returning to India.
    Make no mistake, my best is yet to come Hidden Content

  4. #4
    PnS11 is offline Senior Member 6123 points
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    that is something to think about. for those that hav pased step 1, will it make difference so long as rotations are available in houston and chcago?

  5. #5
    dave2626 is offline Member 539 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by PnS11 View Post
    that is something to think about. for those that hav pased step 1, will it make difference so long as rotations are available in houston and chcago?
    Windsor class of 2008 here. Let me offer my 2 cents to this issue.
    For anyone currently at the school - as long as you graduate on or before Dec 31 2022 this wont affect you at all.


    So the rationale for the ECFMG changes are here:
    www.ecfmg.org/forms/rationale.pdf
    It makes sense - you really want to have schools that meet an acceptable minimum standard. I wouldn't say the battle is over though. Technically the school can obtain accreditation at any point before 2023 and still be okay. The uncertainty of not having the accreditation before MD1 will definitely turn off a lot of students from starting. This will not stem the tide of transfer students in the meantime as long as they graduate in 2022 or earlier.

    For those of you who have not gone thru the process and don't know what we're referring to its the issue of obtaining ECFMG certification. Holding an ECFMG certificate is necessary to start residency training, sit for USMLE step 3 or to apply for a permanent medical license. If you don't get the certificate, then the medical degree is meaningless.
    Start med school
    Pass USMLE step 1
    Pass USMLE step 2 CK, CS
    Apply for residency
    Apply for ECFMG certification
    Graduate from med school
    Be granted ECFMG certification <----------------------- here is the block in your medical training if the school is not accredited.
    Start residency training

    To be clear, this is NOT a school closing event. Windsor provides a good quality education, they're run by hardworking folks who know what they're doing.

    The class of 2023 (students that start in 2019) will be affected by this. If you start at Windsor in 2018 and you graduate in 4 years then this DOES NOT apply to you and you will get an ECFMG certificate without any problems as long as you meet all the other requirements.


    Anyway, ignore all the trolling about this issue. The fights not over, Windsor's last accreditation attempt was in 2016 and they had significant improvement but were still in transition in critical areas. You can bet they'll be working for another attempt this year or in 2018. If they can make all the necessary changes to meet the CAAAM-HP standards then it shouldn't be a problem. If anything much of what CAAAM-HP is asking for are things that would be great for the students and the program of education in general.

  6. #6
    aimu observer is offline Member 510 points
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    RE So this is the thing, Windsor is supposed to be an Offshore Medical School geared towards the US Curriculum and allowing students the opportunity to write USMLE Step 1 and gain residency in the US.
    ECFMG has put in place new accreditation guidelines that take effect from 2022/23. Within these guidelines it states the ECFMG certificates which are required to sit Step 1 will only be issued to students from accredited institutions (with accreditation paralleled to the US Curriculum). The agency responsible for this in the Cairbbean is CAAM-HP. Some schools like UMHS etc use ACIM (Based in Ireland). So considering that CAAM-HP has increased its requirements, and works on a 2-year cycle, Windsor, having failed its last assessment now has to wait to 2019 to be re-evaluated with a decision to come down in 2020. Given that Windsor has lost the plot recently and predominantly recruit Nigerian and Indian students with little to no chance of getting into the us for bureaucratic reasons (and most nigerian students return home to practice) there is little to look forward to. With UMHS building a dominance on the island and Windsor offering very little in terms of hope for students, their business model is failing. To this end, ask any present student, in Summer 2017 (May 2017) there were NO incoming students into the PM1 class, and only 3 new students into the MD1. If the administration knows they are going to be unable to secure CAAM-HP (bribery is not out of the option given the school is indian-owned) they may see it fit to close the doors. Multiple professors have indeed advised the better performing students to transfer out as soon as possible and have began to pursue other options themselves in places like Guyana, Canada, and in some cases returning to India.

    THIS IS AMAZIMG.
    I CAN REMEMBER FLYING INTO BASETERRE IN 2008 ON A FLIGHT THAT WAS FILLED WITH WINDSOR AND WOULD BE WINDSOR STUDENTS

    HOW HAVE THE MIGHTY FALLEN!

    I LOVE IT THOUGH. I LOVE IT REAL BAD. I HOPE THAT THEY GO THROUGH THE EDDOES FOR TRUTH

  7. #7
    Dr.Bell's Avatar
    Dr.Bell is offline School Official 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2626 View Post

    Start med school
    Pass USMLE step 1
    Pass USMLE step 2 CK, CS
    Apply for residency
    Apply for ECFMG certification
    Graduate from med school
    Be granted ECFMG certification <----------------------- here is the block in your medical training if the school is not accredited.
    Start residency training
    Actually the road block would be at Step 1. "To be eligible for Step 1, Step 2 Clinical Knowledge (CK), and Step 2 Clinical Skills (CS), a student must be officially enrolled in a medical school located outside the United States and Canada that is listed in the World Directory of Medical Schools (World Directory) as meeting eligibility requirements for its students and graduates to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and examination, both at the time that he/she applies for examination and on his/her test day. " (from the ECFMG website.)
    Associate Director of Admissions
    Trinity School of Medicine

  8. #8
    dave2626 is offline Member 539 points
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    Good correction - Dr. Bell is correct. Applying for step 1 would be prevented without CAAM-HP at the moment.

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