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  1. #1
    jd.84 is offline Member 514 points
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    potential transfer student

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    Hello,
    I'm sorry if this question has been answered, but I have been reading through this forum and haven't really seen an answer to this question. I know Windsor does offer some greenbook rotations, but one, how easy is it to get them? and two, are all the greenbook rotations windsor offers considered clerkships? i just don't want to transfer in and have problems down the road with licensing. Thanks for any help you can give me on this matter.

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    MDIN2009's Avatar
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    From my understanding Rotations are available on a first come, first serve basis. Meaning that after you pass the boards...you will have to contact the school and start the paperwork ASAP. You want to be in line before the rest of your class. Have an idea of what hospitals offer what greenbook rotations via the ACGME site. Some hospitals are listed as affiliates of Greenbook hospitals so be aware of that. But, the rotation will still count as Green book. Example is JPH were I think half the Caribbean schools do rations at. JPH puts students at their affiliate hospitals due to demand. The rotations are considered clerkships but because students from previous classes were allowed to start rotation without taking the boards many were put in Observerships. Others did not know what a clerkship was so the never bothered to clarify their situation with the hospital or school. Please do not be ignorant about the difference between the two. Make sure if you do transfer to Windsor that you get in writing form the school or the hospital that you are indeed doing a clerkship. Also there is a great thread called "Licensing" that list states that require greenbook rotations. So, you can plan accordingly.


    Quote Originally Posted by jd.84 View Post
    Hello,
    I'm sorry if this question has been answered, but I have been reading through this forum and haven't really seen an answer to this question. I know Windsor does offer some greenbook rotations, but one, how easy is it to get them? and two, are all the greenbook rotations windsor offers considered clerkships? i just don't want to transfer in and have problems down the road with licensing. Thanks for any help you can give me on this matter.
    Last edited by MDIN2009; 08-31-2008 at 02:24 AM.
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  3. #3
    jd.84 is offline Member 514 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDIN2009 View Post
    From my understanding Rotations are available on a first come, first serve basis. Meaning that after you pass the boards...you will have to contact the school and start the paperwork ASAP. You want to be in line before the rest of your class. Have an idea of what hospitals offer what greenbook rotations via the ACGME site. Some hospitals are listed as affiliates of Greenbook hospitals so be aware of that. But, the rotation will still count as Green book. Example is JPH were I think half the Caribbean schools do rations at. JPH puts students at their affiliate hospitals due to demand. The rotations are considered clerkships but because students from previous classes were allowed to start rotation without taking the boards many were put in Observerships. Others did not know what a clerkship was so the never bothered to clarify their situation with the hospital or school. Please do not be ignorant about the difference between the two. Make sure if you do transfer to Windsor that you get in writing form the school or the hospital that you are indeed doing a clerkship. Also there is a great thread called "Licensing" that list states that require greenbook rotations. So, you can plan accordingly.


    Thank you MDIN2009. I know the difference between a clerkship and observership, but I will be sure to get it in writing that I am doing a clerkship. Also, if I am correct, Windsor offers greenbook rotations in all the cores except in Peds and Surgery, so where can I do greenbook rotations for these two? I know I have to setup greenbook electives on my own, but if I setup greenbook cores on my own, will that cause me any problems in the future? Don't some states require all your cores be done through school affiliated hospitals? Thanks again for any help you can give me on this issue. I want to make sure I do thorough research and know what I'm getting myself into before transferring in.

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    MDIN2009's Avatar
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    We have a few students in the Chicago area that are doing green rotations in Peds and Surgery. I do not think the we have an option at the other locations.

    Your statement "
    Don't some states require all your cores be done through school affiliated hospitals?". Correct as in the case of Florida. There are no other states that I can find that require school affiliates. As far as I know your transcript shows that your rotations were done at a Windsor affiliate of JNF hospital. Most states just require the rotation to be ACGME approved or that you do a certain amount of clinical time.

    Here are some excerpts from a few states covering clinicals.


    NY

    "If you graduated from a non-LCME-accredited medical school located in one country but completed one or more clinical clerkships in a different country, those clerkships must be certified (Form 2CC). This information is not collected by the Federation Credentials Verification Service (FCVS). For each hospital in which you have completed such a clerkship, the Director of Medical Education or Department Chair must certify your completion of the clerkships."


    GA


    "
    Post-graduate/residency training requirements (for all applicants):
    A. US Medical School Graduates must complete one (1) year of post-graduate/residency training in the US in a program approved by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA).
    B. Canadian Medical Graduates must complete one (1) year of post-graduate/residency training in a program approved by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada(RCPSC), ACGME, or AOA.
    C. International Medical School Graduates and Fifth Pathway applicants who graduate from medical school:
    1. On or before July 1, 1985 must complete one (1) year of post-grad/residency training in the US in a program approved by the ACGME.
    2. After July 1, 1985 must complete three (3) years of training in an ACGME approved program.
    D. ECFMG certification - International Medical Graduates are required to have ECFMG certification unless they were licensed in another state before March 1, 1958. Fifth Pathway applicants are exempt from this requirement for ECFMG certification, but you must pass the ECFMG qualifying examination with a score of 75 or above and provide proof to the Board. "

    FL

    Its a bit long so I just posted the pertnant part.

    (2) For purposes of this rule, the term “core clerkships” means core rotations in medicine, surgery, obstetrics-gynecology, and pediatrics. Each clerkship must be equivalent in duration and substance to the core clerkships offered by the medical school to its regular students.

    Meaning any WSOM student doing rotations in the US should have the equivalent duration and substance as JNF in st.kitts.

    (3) An applicant to whom the provisions of subsection (1) would otherwise be applicable may be admitted to take the written licensure examination or be licensed by endorsement if he or she demonstrates one of the following:

    An applicant who demonstrates section one can apply for a license in FL. Or be licensed with a special endorsement if he or she demonstrates one of the following sub sections (A-D).


    (d) That the applicant has successfully completed three progressive years of approved residency training, (PGY I, II, and III) in one specialty area.

    And this is the sub-section that Windsor Grads would fall under. Thus our current resident in FL.


    Also here are some parts from Sree post on licensing. Bluebook rotations are rotations done at a hospital that has a Greenbook FM rotation. Not all rotations have to be Greenbook in order to meet the criteria for Bluebook just the FM rotation.


    States which accept Bluebook rotations
    22. Arizona
    23. Colorado
    24. Indiana
    25. Iowa
    ‐Must pass the first two Steps in six attempts and Step 3 in three attempts.
    26. Montana
    27. Nebraska
    28. North Dakota
    29. Ohio
    30. Rhode Island
    31. South Carolina
    32. South Dakota
    33. Vermont
    34. West Virginia
    ‐Must pass each Step in three attempts.
    35. Wisconsin
    36. Wyoming
    37. Maryland

    ‐Must pass east Step in four attempts.
    States which do not scrutinize clinical rotations as long as 3 years of residency are completed
    38. Florida
    39. Georgia
    ‐Requires 60 credits of college.
    40. Kentucky
    41. Maine

    To be on the safe side get all your rotations signed off by the GME office at the hospital you are doing rotations at.
    Last edited by MDIN2009; 08-31-2008 at 12:46 PM.
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  5. #5
    jd.84 is offline Member 514 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDIN2009 View Post
    We have a few students in the Chicago area that are doing green rotations in Peds and Surgery. I do not think the we have an option at the other locations.

    Your statement "Don't some states require all your cores be done through school affiliated hospitals?". Correct as in the case of Florida. There are no other states that I can find that require school affiliates. As far as I know your transcript shows that your rotations were done at a Windsor affiliate of JNF hospital. Most states just require the rotation to be ACGME approved or that you do a certain amount of clinical time.

    Here are some excerpts from a few states covering clinicals.

    NY

    "If you graduated from a non-LCME-accredited medical school located in one country but completed one or more clinical clerkships in a different country, those clerkships must be certified (Form 2CC). This information is not collected by the Federation Credentials Verification Service (FCVS). For each hospital in which you have completed such a clerkship, the Director of Medical Education or Department Chair must certify your completion of the clerkships."

    GA

    "Post-graduate/residency training requirements (for all applicants):
    A. US Medical School Graduates must complete one (1) year of post-graduate/residency training in the US in a program approved by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA).
    B. Canadian Medical Graduates must complete one (1) year of post-graduate/residency training in a program approved by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada(RCPSC), ACGME, or AOA.
    C. International Medical School Graduates and Fifth Pathway applicants who graduate from medical school:
    1. On or before July 1, 1985 must complete one (1) year of post-grad/residency training in the US in a program approved by the ACGME.
    2. After July 1, 1985 must complete three (3) years of training in an ACGME approved program.
    D. ECFMG certification - International Medical Graduates are required to have ECFMG certification unless they were licensed in another state before March 1, 1958. Fifth Pathway applicants are exempt from this requirement for ECFMG certification, but you must pass the ECFMG qualifying examination with a score of 75 or above and provide proof to the Board. "

    FL

    Its a bit long so I just posted the pertnant part.

    (2) For purposes of this rule, the term “core clerkships” means core rotations in medicine, surgery, obstetrics-gynecology, and pediatrics. Each clerkship must be equivalent in duration and substance to the core clerkships offered by the medical school to its regular students.

    Meaning any WSOM student doing rotations in the US should have the equivalent duration and substance as JNF in st.kitts.

    (3) An applicant to whom the provisions of subsection (1) would otherwise be applicable may be admitted to take the written licensure examination or be licensed by endorsement if he or she demonstrates one of the following:

    An applicant who demonstrates section one can apply for a license in FL. Or be licensed with a special endorsement if he or she demonstrates one of the following sub sections (A-D).


    (d) That the applicant has successfully completed three progressive years of approved residency training, (PGY I, II, and III) in one specialty area.

    And this is the sub-section that Windsor Grads would fall under. Thus our current resident in FL.

    Also here are some parts from Sree post on licensing. Bluebook rotations are rotations done at a hospital that has a Greenbook FM rotation. Not all rotations have to be Greenbook in order to meet the criteria for Bluebook just the FM rotation.

    States which accept Bluebook rotations
    22. Arizona
    23. Colorado
    24. Indiana
    25. Iowa
    ‐Must pass the first two Steps in six attempts and Step 3 in three attempts.
    26. Montana
    27. Nebraska
    28. North Dakota
    29. Ohio
    30. Rhode Island
    31. South Carolina
    32. South Dakota
    33. Vermont
    34. West Virginia
    ‐Must pass each Step in three attempts.
    35. Wisconsin
    36. Wyoming
    37. Maryland
    ‐Must pass east Step in four attempts.
    States which do not scrutinize clinical rotations as long as 3 years of residency are completed
    38. Florida
    39. Georgia
    ‐Requires 60 credits of college.
    40. Kentucky
    41. Maine

    To be on the safe side get all your rotations signed off by the GME office at the hospital you are doing rotations at.
    Thank you so much MDIN2009, this is very helpful. I want to cover all my bases because I honestly am not sure which state I want to practice in. I want to have as many choices as possible. Anyways, thanks again!

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    MDXRS22 is offline Ultimate Member 515 points
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    This is good info
    I need to think about something...maybe you know what...

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