Yes, DeVry is rich, and purchase of Ross will no doubt make them richer... but what does that do for you, the medical student? Ross and SGU have been around for roughly the same amout of time. As medical students, SGU'er see where the money is going -- beautiful campus, excellent logistic support, and 90++% graduation rate... and grads like Steph at Johns Hopkins, and classmates of mine in ortho, Optho, and many of us doing residencies across CA, the most hostile state to IMG's...

What does Ross students see? Trailers for campus, 50% fail rate as of late 1990's, and very few, if any residents in CA except Kern County. My college roommate started Ross a full year before I started SGU. He lost 50% of his classmates by Step I (which he didn't take until 2.5 years after he started Ross because he, like most of his classmates, happened to fail one class, and was made to re-pay an entire semester of tuition to repeat one class). He graduated a full year after I graduated from SGU. Because of repeating semester, and protracted clinical years, he owe not too much less than what I owe for med school loans... And oh, those protracted clinical years... it took him more than 3 years to complete clinicals because he had to arrange his own... and had to cancel majority of his clinicals he set up because Ross did not send his paperwork to the hospitals in time. And based on Ross's recommendation, he did a few clinicals outside of ACGME programs, and is having licensure problems big time. I'm finishing my residency, he is still looking for residency. Less than 40% of his original matriculating class eventually graduated.

And SGU fought for the rights of IMG's to take the same exams as US grads... not SGU and Ross. And whatever happened to the Wyomine campus?

Like Steph said, don't be fooled. The parent coporation having money does not mean anything... I have no doubt DeVry will profit from Ross aquisition (why else would they buy it?) The question is, how much longer will Ross students wait before they see any infrastructures like SGU? Before you say infrasstructures don't matter... imagine you are an external accreditation inspector making site visits... what kind of impressions do you think they will have after visiting SGU's multimillion dollar campus and Ross's campus? Yes, DeVry is rich, so was Mr. Ross who founded the school. And I'm sure Mr. ****** of SGU is also very well off financially. But that's not the point... it's whay you SEE as medical students that counts. SGU reinvests money back into their students environments. Ross, up until now, merely fatten the pockets of whichever coporation that owned them.

Rant mode off... back to sleep now.

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php?searc...=2001&cause=27
http://www.nypdangels.com/wtc.htm
http://www.hampsteadnh.us/police/A%2...ica%20Died.htm
http://longmontpolice.com/MEMORIAM.HTM

I want to make this crystal clear- my comments are in no way meant to demean or belittle ross students or ross. I have never been to the school and I am ill qualified to make any comments about the place. Ross students become physicians and whatever weaknesses the place has, well so to does sgu and other schools.

My point is merely intended to state that I feel that Dr. E.s assumptions about new found power for ross students misguided and more evidence of his wishful thinking than anything else concrete. I further more don't think E was off topic per se, nor were his (if he's a he) comments inappropriate. I think they were factually inaccurate but that's ok too.

__________________
Steph
If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

Picard, you keep quoting 1990's failure rate in your Ross postings. Of course, don't ask me either I don't go to Ross or any school........I have applied for Jan. 2004 to the 3 schools.

But I think you should take a look at recent raw numbers for Ross classes that fail, repeat etc. Here is a link to recent numbers.

http://www.valuemd.com/viewtopic.php...view=&start=15

like I said, money is power my friends. Ross is about to complete it's 3 million dollar buildings with 17ft. plasma screens and wireless internet for it's new lecture buildings. Ross in the only school to have a mother company with reginal acrreditation in the US. Money is power.

I agree that we have to be very careful posting old data, and particularly data from a school we aren't a part of so inherently know less about. THis is why I've not posted any recent sgu data...simply its not recent. Someone at bay shore is working on getting this info for me.

I do encourage all students to be very careful when interpreting data...a quote for instance of a 95% pass rate on the usmle is great...unless only 60% of the class makes it to the boards without deceling (people are very forthcoming with attrition data since there isn't much, but not so much with decel data).

__________________
Steph
If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

I visited Ross for 3 days. And i talked to a few people there and they all said the same thing. Ross will never be accredited BC one of the accreditation requirements is for the school to be wheelchair accessible, something Ross Vet med will never achieve.
So don’t be fooled that about Ross accreditation status. On my visit I talked to the housing administrator of the school and she did mention that they were planning to build a new building at Ross vet med. When I asked what about wireless tech. she mention that the budget is not used on tech. especially for wireless, that the computers and ports in the library were enough.
On the other hand it’s Great that Devry bought Ross. The only reason Devry bought Ross it’s because the school can be transformed into a money maker. Ross Vet med accepts a S. load of students of which at least 45% of the class has to either drop out or repeat the 1st year. Don’t get me wrong SGU its also a money maker, but the drop and repeat rates are as bad as Ross Students.
Students at Ross vet med end up sitting on the floor and not having enough tools in the classroom. It is even published in the school news paper, so if you don’t believe it ask for one. If you are interested in reading about the problems Ross or SGU have go reading the newspapers the school prints out and read the forums on the news papers. After reading both newspapers and learning about both programs I decided that SGU was a better option for my needs than Ross. In my opinion I would advice or recommend SGU over Ross to anyone that asks. I hope this info helps. Have fun guys.

__________________
"Always look on the bright side of life, always look on the light side of life...what do you have to lose nothing because you come from nothing and you will end up in nothing..."

we've always said, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics..."

I appologize if I sounded a bit harsh in my earlier post. It was late at night and I was tired. But I stand by what I said. Yes, I read the "official numbers" posted by the Ross Dean, but I also read through the entire thread. The 10% they keep quoting is the school fail rate -- students that made it to the finals and were asked to leave after the failed the finals. Numbers that are conspicuously missing are: 1) how many actually PAID tuition and STARTED day one of medical school? 2) How many left school before the finals? 3) Of the students that started a given year, how many actually gradutated 4 calender years later, and out of that number, how many actually matched (Not how many "qualified graduates" matched... when I hear people say that, I want to ask, "so, how many"unqualified graduates" did you guys produce?" ) We can sit here and play numbers all day long.

And many will argue that "attrition rate" does not matter for people who will do well to begin with. While I agree that peole who will excel well likely to excel despite their environments... but that's not a credit to the school, that's a credit to the individuals perserverence. To me, the attrition rate does mean something... it means how much the school is willing to take care of its students. We all leave our home to go to the caribbeans. Academic reasons aside, why is it that much fewer SGU students "run crying home to mommy," like one of the posters stated? It goes to how much support the school provides to foster a supportive environment... and that's important, at least to me. And that's where SGU shines in its reinvestment into its students. I have no doubt that if someone excels at SGU, that same individual will most likely do well at Ross as well... but I bet you he wouldn't enjoy it as much.

In my previous posts, I've always said that I don't know what Ross is like nowadays since it's changed hands several times. But my personal obsevations of Ross was more or less indirectly confirmed by the Ross Dean's statement in his post... before 2000, their students were dropping like flies. I posted my college roommates experiences since I have regular contacts with him... and he is very disappointed that he is over 140,000 in debt with a Ross degree that he can't use, and he wasn't alone in his class. He laughed at the figure Ross quoted about 95% of "qualified graduates" getting residencies... He told me that he guess him and many of his classmates fell under the "unqualified graduates" category. And he passed Step I/II/CSA on first attempts... And this is post-2000. And as far as my posting about Ross residency opportunities in CA, well, this is recent. I'm in California, and I see Ross graduates/applicants in California and how they do.

And for personal reasons, I will not further elaborate this... but let's just say that besides what my college roommate has told me, I have first hand experience of Ross through close family experiences... and it's much worst than what my college roommate told me.

Again, I am going to say that I don't know Ross in recent years as it has changed hands twice. By the same token, the change is recent, and we haven't seen the results yet, good or bad. But simply by saying that the parent company has money and perhaps influence is a definitive plus is just wishful thinking without objective evidence. Our governor Davis is also rich and powerful... but look at what he'd done to California... and we are voting him out of office next month. Money and power doesn't always translate to better lives for us peasants... just look at history.

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php?searc...=2001&cause=27
http://www.nypdangels.com/wtc.htm
http://www.hampsteadnh.us/police/A%2...ica%20Died.htm
http://longmontpolice.com/MEMORIAM.HTM

Hey guys...
Interesting comments, but I think this thread has been hijacked. Maybe you should start another thread?

This friend of yours that graduated Ross. He passed Step 1 and all exams after that and didn't get a residency? I think he is not telling you something. I can show you some students who barely passed Step 1 at Ross and still could get a FP/IM somewhere...not a desirable location but so what. What about all that talk that Ross has some of the best clinicals? I don't go to Ross, but I"m just saying I also know some Ross graduates.

quick comments...
1) yes, I've seen his step I and step II score. They are not bad. He is having licensure problems... yes, he didn't do his homework right, but Ross told him "not to worry about it" when he did rotations outside of ACGME programs in desperation because he wasn't getting help from school.

2) sorry to hijack the thread... i know nothing about vet programs in general except that we have a great vet who takes very good care of our cats... Meow.

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php?searc...=2001&cause=27
http://www.nypdangels.com/wtc.htm
http://www.hampsteadnh.us/police/A%2...ica%20Died.htm
http://longmontpolice.com/MEMORIAM.HTM