Let's not forget that it's an internet school and their website isn't all that informative...

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Finally beat Super Mario Bros within 7 mins.

You're just scared I might eventually someday catch you in useless posts, micro.

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I don't know wolfie, the only person to really challenge that was dt, and he beat me for quite a few months(don't know what happenend to him lately though... maybe he finally got a life). Are you ready to give up your social life for this??? Are you ready for the lack of responsibility and friends for a life of ..... geekiness and total dork-dom?
8)

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Finally beat Super Mario Bros within 7 mins.

medical training via internet is unlikely to be accepted by US state licensing boards until such time as it is offered by one or more recognized US Medical schools.

That being said, it's a shame that somehow training over the internet has come to be equated to some type of impoverished education. There is no doubt that certain kinds of education do better when the students are present. Gross Anatomy is one such course, one might guess. However, we see GA being abandoned or abbreviated by US Medical Schools, and in some cases, computer-aided training is taking place of "cadaver" time.
When I took A&P recently, the textbook had a website which had a number of photographs of cadavers showing various parts of the anatomy.

It has been mentioned numerous times on these forums that a great deal of medical education is memorization (at least in the first two years!). Memorization is usually accomplished by repetition, and repetition is something which computers are particularly adept at.

I have taken a number of classes over the 'net (not bio or nursing classes, to be sure) and very much appreciate the decreased amount of time that I have to devote to a class in order to get equivalent learning from a classroom. In addition, I have taken a number of "self-paced" classes. I log on when I am ready--I don't have to get up, drive or get dressed to attend class. This saves me significant amounts of time, and also means that when I am ready to "go to class", I can just log in. Traditional classes suffer from students falling asleep, students distracted by full bladders or by feeling ill, students' attention span shortened due to hunger or lack of breakfast, students missing classes due to any number of reasons, students inability to hear or understand the instructor and other impediments to the learning process (including building construction taking place and lawns being mowed.) Further, it is easy for me to "re attend" my class. Internet or distance learning classes that I've taken also have provided a forum component, in which discussions and questions can be far more in-depth than classroom training can allow for.

Classes which require the acquisition of psychomotor skills (e.g., CPR) need to have some human interaction. But even CPR classes contain information that can be acquired outside of the classroom, leaving the classroom time to practice of psychomotor skills. A much better use of
time, IMO. I have been told that American Heart Association is even going to renewal of CPR cards over the internet (including the health-care provider equivalent classes.)

It's a shame that the economies of training via internet make people relegate it to substandard education. I, personally, do not believe that this is the case. Internet training CAN be superb and provide a vast improvement over classroom training.

As far as Vanguard is concern, the concern I have with what has been presented so far is that the president has indicated that physicians are being consulted in the preparation of courses. What I've learned while on this forum (and makes perfect sense to me) is that basic science classes should be taught by Ph.D.s in the subject matter, and NOT by physicians.


heart

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Dear Heart1st,

Thank you for such a well thought out post.

I really appreciate the oportunity to address relevant topics and not the same "drill" which is repeated "ad naseum".

Eventually, internet based medical training will invade the United States, I predict within the next 10 years. Medical training costs rise, while financial aid stays the same in the U.S.A..

The general 90/10 rule may not apply in the United States like it does in the third world, but eventually there will not be enough wealthy individuals that can sustain educational growth.

90/10 rule = 90% of the wealth is owned or controlled by 10% of the population.

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With that slight introduction, I would like to comment the following.

VSOM, has already taken into account the need for personal interaction, that is why there are mandatory annual labs that should be done with your online course instructor, who shall evaluate you in a face to face situation, sort of a P.I.M.P. session, if you will. Now that does not make our program any better or any worse than other Distance Education providers.

The figure of the PhD., is not as well developed in medical education in Costa Rica as it is in the United States.

I am not saying there are not PhD's available, what I am saying is that they are not used;widely in medical education, locally, but I do see a slight shift away from this practice but not yet enough to make a impact in the number of M.D.'s vs PhD., teaching medicine.

I think that the school that probably uses the most PhD's here in Costa Rica is "UCIMED" and probably the University of Costa Rica, both excellent schools.

The good news (for us), is there a huge surplus of well trained under-employed Physicians that love the concept of what we are promoting.

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If someone was to do a survey on how medicine is taught in Costa Rica, the results would probably show that 65% of medicine is self taught.

(i) The student walks into class...............listens to a four hour lecture on bones and muscles, looks at slides on a projecter. In reality that student could not realistically be expected to take notes @ the velocity the Professor is speaking, so now you are down to - "read chapters 1-8 in your Grays Anatomy book, curl up with NETTER and off to learn origens and insertions of muscles and to absorbe all of the greatly accidented terrain that each individual bone has to offer, which is actually a very important landmark.

Here at least , Medicine is practically SELF-TAUGHT.

(ii) There are those that say that Distance Education and Medicine do not mix and I agree and disagree. This type of education is not for eveyone, but it can be effective if the right elements come together. I think that the pundits consider Distance Education to "easy".

By being effective, I mean, that I do not expect to see the next Noble prize in medicine being won by a student in a Distance Education program but it is an alternative. I hope that Distance Education for medical graduates never replaces good old fashion classroom teaching.

On the other hand, there have been horrible physicians that have graduated from Harvard; the main point here is - "how bad do you want it"? That is what makes a good physician.

Just a couple of thoughts I wanted to mix in there.

Thank you,

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CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
VANGUARD UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, S.A.
HIGHER EDUCATION SERVICES BROKER
San Jose, Costa Rica

Well Howdy!

You speak of schools like yours, "invading the United States". Well guess what, most things that invade the US aren't very productive....like TERRORISM maby!? Just thought that was a silly way to put it.

I hate using these forums for petty junk like this, but I think everyone should notice how the moderater or whoever presidente is, keeps on jabbing back and forth with everyone else. Wouldn't a real professional just bite the tongue and say enough? If this behavior is an example of Vanguard...then buyer beware! Good luck anyhow!

skidoc42

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"When I'm done here and my time has past, I wish they bury me face down...so my critics can kiss my a**" ~The Legendary Coach Bobby Knight

If the aim of the school is, like all other new med schools in the area, to attract US students, the sheer lack of knowledge by a school individual astounds me. to attribute licensing laws and guidelines to a higher being just left me speechless. so lets review the little knowledge i have of the subject: the US has federal law and state laws. federal laws apply to constitutinal law and are valid in every state in the union. state laws, which medical licensure falls on, is regulated by state individual laws and differ from place to place (my 10th grade govt teacher would be so happy)

1)if you are going to market to a population and have a true desire to be a long term school then it would reason to find out the validity of such a degree on the students you recruit.

2)"Now the (2) years you may have to complete on site can be distributed over the entire (4) years duration of the program. In other words you don't have to do the (2) years worth of credits sequentially"
wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong......in order for the ECGMG to certify you to take the USMLE you have to do 2 years of "continuous" medical education. how do i know this? because it was on my verification sheet.

3)PANZY: your 8 or 9 states that require a continued curriculum is just the tip of the licensing icerberg because of individual state laws. there are likely a few more but then you get into states like California, New york, Florida, New Jersey, Montana that have to approve a school, then there is Kansas with the a school needs to be in operation for 15 years rule, then there are states that keep lists of schools that are not licenseable like Ohio, Indiana, Oregon i beleive. Then there are the states that use California's guidelines, then there are states that use New York's lists...and it gets into a complicated web that ends up tying in most if not all states one way or another even though they don't specifically ban one thing there are other bumps in the road.

4) 90/10 rule doesn't apply in the Us you are right, here it is more like 90/3...the top 3% own most of the wealth

5)the foundation. having lived in south america for a dozen years everything from top to bottom is corrupt and to me having lived there will remain so until proven otherwise and even then i'd still be skeptical.

6) why should we equate internet medical education with bad education? because it makes the most sense. you can beleive that a poorly funded school will look for the cheapest way to get started and there is no more bang for the buck than a third world country. or you can beleive that a belovenant foundation wants to set up a medical education for the poor people of the united states who are working proffesionals and allow them to fullfill their lifelong dreams of becoming a doctor out of the goodness of their hearts and because the US really needs the help. my bet is the only thing looking to get fullfilled are the pockets of the "board of director" one way or another somone is making money i don't buy this crap for a minute.


to sum it up there are no shortcuts to getting back and practicing in the US. anytime you see "innovative curriculum" "distance based learning" "computer (fill in the blank) it pretty much equates to never coming to the US, otherwise find a IUHS, Grace, or other "innovative" curriculum graduate practicing right now. If you want to work in south america then its a different story but if you want to come to the US they make it tough for a reason.

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Skidoc43, I agree with you. I visualize this guy Jack smoking a cigarette behind his pc in his livingroom answering posts and trying to get his website running. He probably took one of this on-line courses himself, copy/paste them and whalaa!!! he is got his own medical school.

Sorry Jack, I think you tried to market in the wrong place, maybe Haiti, Uganda or the Amazon Forest area will be your best bet. Uppps! they probably don´t have acces to internet. I tried to help you, sorry. How about mail? or shortwave radio?

I strongly agree with both heart and rrod.
1. Learning does not have to be in the classroom only. I have friends who are MDs and teach at known US medical schools who tell me that several students do not attend classes. They do self-reading/learning and pass their exams.
2. GA and other subjects can be self-taught by using interactive CDs and DVDs; that's the reason some of US medical schools are getting away from using cadavers.
3. Interaction is important in certain areas of clinical which can be condensed in last 6 months of basic science schedule, if planned properly.
4. Also in order to operate and attract US students to medical school you have to have indepth knowledge of US regulations which Vanguard officials seem to lack.
Comments!!!!

I trained in a conventional London Teaching Hospital. I found this site as my wife is the grandaughter of Wallace c Moseley and we were just searching the web to find out about her family. I'm sure he is smiling down at this whole venture.