You are absolutely RIGHT hexo....the residencies DO look for hard workers, people they can almost exploit for their program, who will make them look good and move them up some unspoken list of "who is better". However, I have been speaking to more and more directors, and the Spanish is becoming more and more an issue...secondary, mind you, but still an issue. I can't speak for all over the country, but I can speak for 4 specific hospitals. One is in Montana. Speaking with a member of the admissions committee, both for medical school, and the pediatrics residency program, she told me that they would be willing to look at a lower USMLE score with Spanish than someone with a 260 and no Spanish. Now mind you, I know she isn't meaning a barely passing score with mediocre grades, but if someone were to come in with outstandingly strong letters of recommendation, a decent COMBINATION of scores between the two steps, and Spanish, they would be a front runner. The same applied in Dallas at two hospitals I spoke with and one in NY.

More and more programs are starting to incorporate medical spanish, and not just in "underserved areas". Baylor in Houston has elective rotations during their pediatrics residency where the residents can to go Columbia or Chile to get experience in both Spanish and foreign medicine. Translators are in DESPERATE demand throughout hospitals in the DFW area, with some hospitals offering incredible salaries for Spanish speakers. Wouldn't it make sense that they would also jump at the opportunity to save that cash and accept someone who would do it as part of their job ANYWAYS? I am not saying that "Joe Smith or Sally Jones" from Guad with his 6.1 grade average, 4 USMLE attempts and mediocre letters of recommendation will get snatched up by any program he or she applies to simply because they know how to ask a person where it hurts in Spanish, but if we come out as decent physicians with an ability in both Spanish and medicine, we will definitely have an advantage, and not just in "underserved" areas.

Ultimately, that's my main point. Like I said, Spanish is a GREAT thing, and I said it was "icing on the cake." It's definitely a marketable thing, but the basics in medicine have GOT to be there. UAG has always over-emphasized its superiority over stateside schools in "soft" qualities, like "humanism," "biculturalism," etc. but one look at the academics.....well, the proof is in the pudding, isn't it?

One would think being in the "International Program" that UAG would have something "different" to offer compared to Latino students in years 3-4 that would be specific to the needs of American/PR students going back north of the border. Not only does UAG fail to do this, they do so with arrogance and pride -- "Aqui no estás en los estados unidos," is said with a chip on profs' shoulders whenever a student says something or other about standard of care or the like. This is the attitude that is going to help an American student when s/he goes back? I mean, I don't mind learning aspects of the Mexican medical system--what I learned I found fascinating and enlightening--but not at the expense of or to replace learning the foundations of medicine as would be needed when I go back.

It's about priorities, and if the point is to come back to the US to become a physician, anybody--and I mean ANYBODY--that thinks that anything "cultural" or "bilingual" etc. is deserving of putting on an equal footing for comparison with straight-up academics, test scores, etc. that we'll be competing against going back for residency is wasting their time...good luck, because you'll need it.

Talk about debasing yourself (again) AS A PHYSICIAN. I didn't attack you (or anyone, as I stated) personally, so why are all the sarcastic, misinformed diarrhea about me? I know what I know because I know it, and I don't have to tell you how or why or who I know, just like you are free to ignore me. But you embarrass and debase yourself acting like a first-year instead of a physician.

If my statements are indeed "deep," you should have done me the respect of replying to them for what they were instead of your juvenile reply (and the high-fives that followed--priceless). I never said anything about UAG's longstanding history or reputation, so drop the "proud heritage" crap.

I don't doubt for one minute you have gotten some extra attention and kudos--and deserved--for your multicultural background and what you have to offer as a physician because of it. But you wouldn't be there AT ALL unless you could've cut the mustard academically. Rightly or wrongly, the US system is what it is, it's their rules, and we need to play by them if that's the career we want. All I'm doing is pointing out the obvious with respect to that.

UAG students, semester one to residency, number for number, statistic for statistic, by and large do NOT cut the mustard. My point is THIS is should be UAG's focus, not cheering itself on about how much we'll be needed as Spanish speaking doctors when around half the student population can't pass Step1 on the first try.

I'm sort of in the middle of Karplus optimism and Hexokinase's realism. I chose to forego spending another year or two of making myself look better on paper in US and jumped into medical school at UAG under the ruse that I would be respected for being bilingual. I know I won't ever be DISrespected for being bilingual, but with my Step I score (yes, I passed on the first try), we're living in a fantasy if we think that a committee is going to ever say "you know...we could have gone for that 250 step I applicant with great research experience, but then we saw that you could speak Spanish and THAT'S why we picked you instead!"

My goals have always bordered on doing mission work in hispanic countries, but the first goal (for most-not all) is to obtain a US residency that will then open doors for such work and none of that matters if UAG doesn't make themselves more competitive. If they're so upset from competing with the Carib schools, then instead of punishing students for wanting to transfer, maybe they oughtta make themselves a more competitive program instead blowing smoke up prospective students hineys to make them THINK they are the being given an exception by being granted admission. "Well, a score of 24 is our cut-off for MCAT, but we'll consider your application anyway."

The problem is, the school isn't going to change anything because in the end, they still bring in thousands of hopeful students (cha ching$$) and because half of us do make it out of the school successfully with passing USMLE scores, it's enough for them to keep things the way they are.

Thank you Lucy May, I am not really an optimist. I am a contrarian, so is Hexo.

Of course, Hexo would never agree that he was a contrarian. Q.E.D.

There was too much bashing and doom and gloom on this site and I wanted people to know that UAG is still here.

We will figure out this 5th pathway stuff and it will soon all be behind us.

Gosh that sounds really optimistic.

Maybe I am an optimist, or I could be suffering from self delusions.

No I am not delusional. You still have a tough time finding information on the changes in 5th pathway. It is not in any newspapers as would be if we suddenly closed medical liscencing for DOs. I search "5th fifth pathway closure" in yahoo and didn't get any major press hits.

It would be hard to get a reporter to understand the extreme subtleties that we are worried about. Imagine the interview.

Reporter - "you called me about breaking news"

Pentose Phosphatase (PP from now on)- "yeah I want to blow the whistle, fifth pathway is closed"

Reporter - "so all those students will never be doctors?"

PP - "well not exactly"

Reporter - "well what exactly!"

PP - "well they will have to go to school in Mexico"

Reporter - "I thought they were already in school in mexico?"

PP - "yeah they are but they will have to stay longer"

Reporter -"so they will have to be in medical school for 5 years and not 4?"

PP - " no they were going to go to medical school for 5 years before"

Reporter - "but, now they will have to practice in Mexico?"

PP - "now you get it, for that year they will practice in Mexico"

Reporter - "for just one year and never practice in America? How awful!"

PP - "no they will practice in America, but they will be ECFMGs and not IMGs"

Reporter - "will people still call them doctor?"

PP - "well yeah, what is your point?

Reporter - with dumbstruck look "do you have any other stories?"

The characters in this scenario are strictly ficticious and though the names may bring some people to mind it should not be reason for them to get upset and call a moderator.

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As much as I hate to accept the fact, you are correct.

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"You do not truly understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother." Albert Einstein