Thread: Social Service issue.

Although I attended Universidad del Noreste Medical School in Tampico I’d like to get perspective from people at UAG regarding the social service issue.

I don’t see why foreign students have an obligation to provide that year of service.

I hold dual citizenship US and EU. After completing my internship in Mexico City 1992 I moved to Europe were I became a license internist. In ‘00 I came back to the States to care for my ailing mother, at this point I applied to take the USMLE, but found out that to meet the requirement for ECMFG certification I’d had to complete the year of social service this in spite of having a license to practice medicine in the EU.
In ’04 after registering for the social service I was able to get my school to sign my USMLE application. I passed both steps but was unable to complete the social service as my mothers health became a bigger concern. My mother passed away in Nov ’05 and now in February I’ll start the year of social service.

I’ve learn that a Puerto Rican classed mate of mine who is now a licensed pediatrician in Ponce also would have to complete the social service if he wanted to practice in the US, in spite of already having done a year of social service in Puerto Rico and my school having recognition in Puerto Rico.

I don’t see how IMG's incurred a debt with the Mexican nation; I think keeping that requirement makes Mexican schools less attractive to Americans. The US will need to increase about 30% the number of medical graduates to address the growing physician shortness, but for US medical school to increase in sizes it will take a long and expensive process.

IMHO medical schools in Mexico could be a good option to address this issue, I also think this one of the reasons Mexican schools loose out to the Caribbean schools. And fifth pathway is not the way to address this issue.

Originally Posted by vilks

Although I attended Universidad del Noreste Medical School in Tampico I’d like to get perspective from people at UAG regarding the social service issue.

I don’t see why foreign students have an obligation to provide that year of service.

I hold dual citizenship US and EU. After completing my internship in Mexico City 1992 I moved to Europe were I became a license internist. In ‘00 I came back to the States to care for my ailing mother, at this point I applied to take the USMLE, but found out that to meet the requirement for ECMFG certification I’d had to complete the year of social service this in spite of having a license to practice medicine in the EU.
In ’04 after registering for the social service I was able to get my school to sign my USMLE application. I passed both steps but was unable to complete the social service as my mothers health became a bigger concern. My mother passed away in Nov ’05 and now in February I’ll start the year of social service.

I’ve learn that a Puerto Rican classed mate of mine who is now a licensed pediatrician in Ponce also would have to complete the social service if he wanted to practice in the US, in spite of already having done a year of social service in Puerto Rico and my school having recognition in Puerto Rico.

I don’t see how IMG's incurred a debt with the Mexican nation; I think keeping that requirement makes Mexican schools less attractive to Americans. The US will need to increase about 30% the number of medical graduates to address the growing physician shortness, but for US medical school to increase in sizes it will take a long and expensive process.

IMHO medical schools in Mexico could be a good option to address this issue, I also think this one of the reasons Mexican schools loose out to the Caribbean schools. And fifth pathway is not the way to address this issue.

since Mexico was the country that gave and provided you with your MD diploma and as a consequence a "pathway" to go into the US medical system you are indeed "in debt" and as a result you have to complete a year of social service. A year of social service is exactly what it is; service to a needy community and a way to give back to the community since the "big guys" know that probably you will probably never provide service or work in those rural poor areas. I think that you are missing the value and importance of social service and the reasons why it is done and required in those 3rd world countries. But you might be asking why you since you are at this point american? I am ssuming that you have a dual citizenship ( mexican and US citizen ). It was good for you to pay and enter the school as a mexican but now that you want to practice in the US, you are american and are complaining about social service that you need to complete. You could have saved all this truoble and done it in the US instead of doing it in mexico . Imagine if things were done your way; many americans would come to study in mexico since it is cheaper here ( with the exception of UAG) and enroll in public mexican unversities for a fraction of the cost in the US if the social service and internship years were waived . By the way, UAG and/or Mexico doesnt give you an MD diploma and this is the reason why we dont have to do social service but instead go to 5th pathway. Is 5th pathway a waste of a year? I dont know but at least is an opportunity to inmerse and gain experience in the US medical system. just my 2 cents

The main reason for the existence of the Social Service year is to force Mexican students to pay back their free education. The majority of medical schools are public schools in Mexico. The UAG international program is expensive for Mexican standards and students in this program are allowed to work around the rule by completing their Social Service year while in residency. I know there is a rule stating that the community have to be of hispanic heritage but this is easy to prove in a vast majority of US states. Vilks, I think you should petition your school and the mexican government. I don't know much about your school but UAG have some influence with the social service process by being in this International medical education business for last 30+ years. I totally understand your frustrations.

Take care,

UAGdoc

Originally Posted by cabrillo

since Mexico was the country that gave and provided you with your MD diploma and as a consequence a "pathway" to go into the US medical system you are indeed "in debt" and as a result you have to complete a year of social service. A year of social service is exactly what it is; service to a needy community and a way to give back to the community since the "big guys" know that probably you will probably never provide service or work in those rural poor areas. I think that you are missing the value and importance of social service and the reasons why it is done and required in those 3rd world countries. But you might be asking why you since you are at this point american? I am ssuming that you have a dual citizenship ( mexican and US citizen ). It was good for you to pay and enter the school as a mexican but now that you want to practice in the US, you are american and are complaining about social service that you need to complete. You could have saved all this truoble and done it in the US instead of doing it in mexico . Imagine if things were done your way; many americans would come to study in mexico since it is cheaper here ( with the exception of UAG) and enroll in public mexican unversities for a fraction of the cost in the US if the social service and internship years were waived . By the way, UAG and/or Mexico doesnt give you an MD diploma and this is the reason why we dont have to do social service but instead go to 5th pathway. Is 5th pathway a waste of a year? I dont know but at least is an opportunity to inmerse and gain experience in the US medical system. just my 2 cents

No, I’m not a Mexican citizen; I have European and American citizen. I have nothing against voluntarism, provided it’s voluntary, or against social support. I attended a private school, and foreigners’ are charge a higher tuition, even in goverment universities.

So, I still fail to see how foreign students who bring some financial benefits to the schools and local communities have uncured this debt.

And as far as the beneficial effect on the health care of rural communities by placing a recently medical graduate with not much if any outpatient experience is a big question mark. IMHO it’s a halfhearted government hand out, the people would be better serve with those resources allocated to improve small rural hospitals and developing a telemedicine network. Like a lot of socialist programs, they may have had well-meaning purpose, but if they work or not is the big question, but people are often reluctant to ask by fear of been seen as insensitive. And this is especially true among health care providers.

You’re already assuming I’m an insensitive person trying to get out of a moral obligation I have and is only worried about making the big dollars.

I see things different, of how I’d prefer to see Mexican schools benefit from American students rather than Caribbean schools with questionable reputation, of how Mexican students could benefit more from allocating that extra year to a supervised clinical skills training program in small rural hospitals or outpatient clinics.

I dont think the fifth pathway is bad option but it's not the answer to the Mexican schools becoming at least as attractive as the Caribbean schools to US students.

Originally Posted by uagdoc

The main reason for the existence of the Social Service year is to force Mexican students to pay back their free education. The majority of medical schools are public schools in Mexico. The UAG international program is expensive for Mexican standards and students in this program are allowed to work around the rule by completing their Social Service year while in residency. I know there is a rule stating that the community have to be of hispanic heritage but this is easy to prove in a vast majority of US states. Vilks, I think you should petition your school and the mexican government. I don't know much about your school but UAG have some influence with the social service process by being in this International medical education business for last 30+ years. I totally understand your frustrations.

Take care,

UAGdoc

Thank you, very useful information. I have had good support from my school in an attempt to do in here in Houston in partnership with Texas Children's and the Mexican consulate, but fail to get the final ok by salubridad, which I guess is a great part my frustration. For now I plan to start in February and make the best of it, I'm sure there’ll be some rewording experiences.

Originally Posted by vilks

No, I’m not a Mexican citizen; I have European and American citizen.Sorry my bad; I didnt read the post carefully enough I have nothing against voluntarism, provided it’s voluntary, or against social support.We are not talking about voluntarism, we are taling about social service in comunities that not even the poorest mexican would like to volunteer. I attended a private school, and foreigners’ are charge a higher tuition, even in goverment universities. I totally understand but you paid a very small fraction in comparison to what you should have paid in Europe and the US. Otherwise, why not do it in the US or Europe?

So, I still fail to see how foreign students who bring some financial benefits to the schools and local communities have uncured this debt.because you benefited form a foreign program and you need to pay back the community of the country that served you to complete your dream of becoming a doctor. If I understand correctly, doctors dont get paid doing comunity service so there is a financial benefit to the community.

And as far as the beneficial effect on the health care of rural communities by placing a recently medical graduate with not much if any outpatient experience is a big question mark.This is were I completely disagree with and I am surprise that you can make a comment like this having graduate from a mexican school of medicine. there is plenty of outpatient experience in Mexico. So much that in Mexico is not required to complete a residency and the majority of doctors are "general" practicioners that will never engaged in a specialty of any kind. IMHO it’s a halfhearted government hand out, the people would be better serve with those resources allocated to improve small rural hospitals and developing a telemedicine network.I agree Like a lot of socialist programs, they may have had well-meaning purpose, but if they work or not is the big question, but people are often reluctant to ask by fear of been seen as insensitive. And this is especially true among health care providers. cant argue that. I agree.

You’re already assuming I’m an insensitive person trying to get out of a moral obligation I have and is only worried about making the big dollars. I never said that you did

I see things different, of how I’d prefer to see Mexican schools benefit from American students rather than Caribbean schools with questionable reputation, of how Mexican students could benefit more from allocating that extra year to a supervised clinical skills training program in small rural hospitals or outpatient clinics.The language problem and the extra 1 year are the main reasons why caribbean school are more "appealing" than UAG in particular.

I dont think the fifth pathway is bad option but it's not the answer to the Mexican schools becoming at least as attractive as the Caribbean schools to US students.

I didnt mean to sound judgemental . It's all good, I understand you point of view. Good luck

this a link for the cost of the university in Tampico. ~$4,000 per semester so total career ~40,000 ......Costos UNE great price but yeah extra year of community service and no 5th pathway.

"I’ve learn that a Puerto Rican classed mate of mine who is now a licensed pediatrician in Ponce also would have to complete the social service if he wanted to practice in the US, in spite of already having done a year of social service in Puerto Rico and my school having recognition in Puerto Rico.
"

Did your friend from Puerto Rico completed a fifth pathway and got the certificate? Reason I ask is that it is unusual to be required to complete the social services after you have completed a 5th pathway program. If I am wrong please correct me. My understanding is that in order to be considered a GRADUATE from any Mexican medical school you have to complete the internship and social services, those who go through 5th pathway and skip the social service and internship do not, technically hold a diploma from the university. Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by vilks

Although I attended Universidad del Noreste Medical School in Tampico I’d like to get perspective from people at UAG regarding the social service issue.

I don’t see why foreign students have an obligation to provide that year of service.

I hold dual citizenship US and EU. After completing my internship in Mexico City 1992 I moved to Europe were I became a license internist. In ‘00 I came back to the States to care for my ailing mother, at this point I applied to take the USMLE, but found out that to meet the requirement for ECMFG certification I’d had to complete the year of social service this in spite of having a license to practice medicine in the EU.
In ’04 after registering for the social service I was able to get my school to sign my USMLE application. I passed both steps but was unable to complete the social service as my mothers health became a bigger concern. My mother passed away in Nov ’05 and now in February I’ll start the year of social service.

I’ve learn that a Puerto Rican classed mate of mine who is now a licensed pediatrician in Ponce also would have to complete the social service if he wanted to practice in the US, in spite of already having done a year of social service in Puerto Rico and my school having recognition in Puerto Rico.

I don’t see how IMG's incurred a debt with the Mexican nation; I think keeping that requirement makes Mexican schools less attractive to Americans. The US will need to increase about 30% the number of medical graduates to address the growing physician shortness, but for US medical school to increase in sizes it will take a long and expensive process.

IMHO medical schools in Mexico could be a good option to address this issue, I also think this one of the reasons Mexican schools loose out to the Caribbean schools. And fifth pathway is not the way to address this issue.

Originally Posted by sam kurenai

"I’ve learn that a Puerto Rican classed mate of mine who is now a licensed pediatrician in Ponce also would have to complete the social service if he wanted to practice in the US, in spite of already having done a year of social service in Puerto Rico and my school having recognition in Puerto Rico.
"

Did your friend from Puerto Rico completed a fifth pathway and got the certificate? Reason I ask is that it is unusual to be required to complete the social services after you have completed a 5th pathway program. If I am wrong please correct me. My understanding is that in order to be considered a GRADUATE from any Mexican medical school you have to complete the internship and social services, those who go through 5th pathway and skip the social service and internship do not, technically hold a diploma from the university. Am I wrong?

Its not a fifth pathway, I know Puerto Rico has or had had a fifth pathway in Ponce. From what I understand my school (UNE) has some sort of recognition in Puerto Rico that allows the Puerto Rican Students to take an exam called revalida, if they passed they could go unto do their internship and social service in Puerto Rico. I’m not sure if that exam still exists and what their final degree looks like. I know this was only valid for Puerto Rico and not for the US, here they still need to pass the USMLE steps. But what surprised me it that regardless of passing the USMLE steps they still have to go back to Mexico and do the social service, which means that the agreement between my school and PR Medical Board (La junta? I think) is not recognized outside of PR.

Originally Posted by cabrillo

I didnt mean to sound judgemental . It's all good, I understand you point of view. Good luck

Thank you, and I apreciate your viewpoint.