This is a repost of an old post that I had made that addresses various issues.
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Greetings,

Derek Sampson here. This post is LONG overdue, as well as just plain LONG (sorry for the length). Given the tone of recent posts, I felt the need to repost this old article I wrote. One of the advantages of being a senior resident in a small program is that you do get ample amount of downtime. Now that I have some downtime, I can post and respond to other postings.

First, I'd like to send out a hearty congratulations to all those folks who are graduating at the end of the semester. Y'all have worked hard and have EARNED that degree. Many people have wondered what life is like after UNIBE. I will attemt to answer them all as well as throw in my $0.02.

First, people want to know how IMG-friendly the US is. Well let me answer it the best way I can:
That is a VERY broad question. The US is a VERY big and diverse place. There are DEFINITELY IMG-friendly areas, and there are areas that are not. The BIGGEST mistake people make is define who is friendly vs. not friendly by the hospital or the university sponsoring the program. A more correct way to ask the question is asking for IMG-FRIENDLY PROGRAMS. A hospital is a big unit with many programs in it. Each program has their own program director who sets the admission criteria and the friendly/or unfriendly IMG tone. You can have one hospital with an IMG-friendly Fam Prac program and an IMG-unfriendly anesthesia program. So when you are on the hunt for programs, look for IMG friendly PROGRAMS, not hospitals/universities.
Also, different programs within a same hospital may have different USMLE cutoff points. This reminds me of a University here in the midwest that has 5 different Family practice programs under its umbrella. each one of those had their own director and admission criteria. Within the SAME university, I got an invite for an interview with one branch, and then a rejection letter without interview with another branch. Ain't that a trip?
A LOT of the stuff (a.k.a. rumors) you hear while at UNIBE from your fellow students is nothing but attempted mental sabotage. Certain individuals who feel bad/insecure about themselves, try to project their feelings and make others miserable. Here is a sampling of the WILD rumors I heard while at UNIBE...(tell me if you heard these ones too)..This is my RUMOR vs. REALITY comparison.

Rumor: Tuition is going up

Reality: Only 1 tuition increase while I was there. (from 2250 to 2900). Most US schools raise their EVERY year. (UNIBE's tuition is probably a little higher now)

Rumor: You can't get a good USMLE score coming from here. (that was before ppl started busting high 80's and 90's)

Reality: I along with others scored in the mid-80's (in my case as well as my roomate, we didn't use any kaplan course (couldn't afford it...Did it on our own)

Rumor: You'll get no respect in the US coming from the DR

Reality: The amount of respect you get in the US is directly proportional to :
a) your attitude
b) how well you get along with people
c) your abilities and willingness to learn...PERIOD. As an FMG, I am well respected in my place of work by attendings, staff, associates, and patients. I have ZERO problem mentioning that I went to school in the Dominican Republic. And being the only fluent Spanish speaker in the clinic helps too :-)

Rumor: I won't know as much as the US students...boo hoo hoo :-(

Reality: What you know is directly proportional to:
a) were you studying from the beginning?? or just going with the flow and expecting Kaplan to help you play catch-up.
b) time spent devoted to studying. The time and energy devoted to complaining and seeking out other schools to transfer to could have
been used to study and build up your knowledge base.

Rumor: (this one is my favorite): I hear that (fill the blank with your favorite newly-started off-shore med school) is accepting transfers and has clinicals in the states, I'm outa here. I want to do REAL clinicals.

Reality: I and Dr. Holbrook already addressed this issue in a recent post. There is not one shred of evidence that the END OUTCOME (the only TRUE measuring stick) is any better/superior to those that stay at UNIBE, pass boards, and graduate.

Rumor: Unibe is only recognized in X (fill in any random number) states

Reality: I can make this a REALLY long post, but I wont, so I will give the abbreviated version...With the obvious exception of California and New Mexico (I have posted the reasons why in a previous post), UNIBE has NO licensing problems in any state. Even those states with stringent requirements (pennsylvania...4000 hours of medical school and 72 weeks of clinicals, UNIBE meets those requirements (4250 hrs of medical school and 74 weels of clinicals - I graduated in the OLD curriculum), and there are UNIBE grads in Pennsylvania now. As for California, it is only a matter of filing out the documentation, paying the money for the inspection, and getting the inspection done. I'm sure UNIBE can easily pass inspection, it is just a matter of filing the MOUNTAINS of paperwork and paying the fee. Before that, if some brave intrepid soul wants to go to California, that person may be in a legal battle for a couple of years before he/she MIGHT get in. Because of the large amounts of money it would cost to take them to court, all the UNIBE grads from California just applies to other states as it is less headache and lesser drain on the wallet.

IF a state decided to give an UNIBE grad any problems, barring something negative in the persons file (ex. too many USMLE failures - many states place a limit on how many times you can fail, or a felony conviction), a simple court challenge can EASILY defeat a discriminatory state medical board (that's my opinion...no court cases have been filed so far).

Now here is the flip side......

Are there UNIBE grads that after many years and multiple board attempts STILL haven't passed and are not in residency??? YES
It is a sad situation, but ever since the first graduating class of the English program, there has always been a few ppl whom after many attempts at the USMLE, have not passed. But let's put things in perspective. I have discussed this topic previously in OLD posts...

The percentage of people who succeed via the foreign route is directly related to the presence or absence of FILTERS employed by the school. In schools like St. Georges, unless you have a high GPA and HIGH MCAT scores (which many US medical educators feel is a predictor of USMLE success), you don't get admitted. That is filter #1. Filter #2 happens during the basic sciences. If you fail more than 2 calsses, you win a date with the promotions committee and may be dismissed from medschool. Filter #3 is the USMLE, if you fail it 3 times at a US school, that buys you an AUTOMATIC DISMISSAL. That is a FACT. Most foreign schools DON'T have these filters, so you get a mixed bag of students in a WIDE spectrum from the serious hard core "gunner" types all the way down to the complainer/slacker/skirt chaser/partier who would have easily been filtered out in the previous system I described. For the foreign grad, though, there is just one huge filter which is at the end of the line, that is the USMLE/ECFMG process.

Another problem that people don't want to own up to is what I called "unconquered demons syndrome". let me illustrate a ficticious case example.........

John Doe went to Brand X Univ in NY. Historically, John Doe had never been good at standardized tests, and has never taken any steps to resolve that problem. Also when in College, John never really studied much, and wasn't very disciplined. And when it came to the premed core classes, he barely made C's. When John Doe takes the MCAT, he gets his butt kicked. Needless to say, he gets rejected from all US schools he applies to. He says "Screw them, I'll go the foreign route". Off he goes.....
John gets accepted to medical school on the Island of St. Jock, a relatively new school with a pretty much open admissions policy. While there, when he's not chasing the local women, he is constantly complaining to his fellow classmates...
"This place sucks, the US is FAR superior to this dump!!"
"These classes are useless. I'm just gonna get by with old tests. Right when I finish basic science, I'm taking a semester off, go to Kaplan back in NY and rock a 90 on my boards so I can transfer to a REAL school."
"My plan is to rock the boards and transfer to the US for clinicals. My uncle Dexter is an cardiologist at BFE medical center affiliated with brand Y med school. I got a connection.
"There is NO WAY I'd want to do my clinicals here."
John finishes the basic sciences, goes back to NY, and takes Kaplan.when done, he takes the USMLE and scores a 65. He then goes back to St. Jock still talking trash and spreading rumors, blaming "this inferior school" for my USMLE failure. John finally graduaes, and heads back to the states, retakes Kaplan, and 3 more board attempts later, he still cannot pass. Meanwhile, he uses every chance to trash his old alma mater on the FMG discussion forums.

The MORAL of this story...before ANYONE goes off to a foreign school, one needs to do a serious "check-up-from-the-neck-up". One needs to HONESTLY assess their strengths and weaknesses. If an individual was a poor test taker with poor academic discipline, running offshore didn't conquer that demon. Changing location didn't solve a thing. I don't care how good/bad a professor is, that does not exculpate the individual student from studying and transferring the material "from book to brain". If basic sciences could be taught in 6 weeks, it would. There is a reason why basic sciences take 2 years to study.

So to all the prospective students who are contemplating going abroad, honestly assess yourself and your strenghts and weaknesses, conquer your demons first BEFORE you head abroad. It will save you a whole lot of time and headache in the future. And with that, I close...PEACE!!!!!


-Derek

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Moderator - UNIBE, Main Foreign Med Schools

Hello, I have graduated from Unibe in April 2002. I guess there have been changes since your graduation. The tuition right now is $4,000 per semester. Nevertheless, it is not usually raised. On my four years there, it was raised twice only. The teaching depends greatly on the specific teachers, however in the last couple of semesters the school has been changing some of the less dedicated teachers. Nevertheless, it is still necessary to put a lot of effort and dedication, but I believe that is in any medical school. The clinical part depends greatly on your desire to work and the ability to speak or learn spanish during the pre-clinical period. Lately, the USMLE scores are in the high 80s and many 90s.

I'm having a really hard time contacting anyone about the UNIBE program. The Fl. number is only a recording and I left a message requesting info and that was two weeks ago, and nothing received yet . Can someone help!!
I have a few questions.
1)Do students of the UNIBE program take the USMLE step 1 at the end of the basic science years? If not, then WHEN?
Do students wait untill they graduate to take step 1 and 2 -- try to get US residency and then take step 3?
2)Is the program accredited likes schools in the caribbean--say like AUC or Ross?
3)Are clinicals only done in DR or are there any US hospitals student can choose?
4)Do students of the UNIBE program get to take part in the US Match program like other schools do?
5) The semesters are very similar to other schools but semesters 6 through 8 are strange --can someone explain?
6) Besides learning another language,which I believe is a major plus, what does UNIBE have that schools in like AUC, or Ross don't? What motivated those that picked UNIBE over other schools in the caribbean?
7)What are some of the pluses and negatives of the school

Thanks for your time

I agree as a UNIBE graduate saying that what you do with your life depends on you. There are students doing clinicals in the US, the cases I know of one was in Jackson Memorial/Surgery in Miami and the other one was a surgery rotation in New York (don't remember the hospital). UNIBE graduates are breaking the USMLE's with even one 98 and some 90's plus a lot of 80's of average students on first attempts. This year I know of people who got into Temple, Drexel, Washington Hospital Center, Cleveland Clinic Florida and a lot of very good hospitals. I as a Dominican who studied there, feel very confident of what I know and what I can do. We get a lot of hands on opportunities if you're willing to take them.

Muy bien dicho!

Saludos,
El Grande

I could not agree more with Derek. At the end you get out of it as much as you put in. Well said, and well taken.

I personally found it extremely insulting and disgraceful that some of the foreign students at UNIBE/UTESA would openly and blatantly make degrading comments about the country, hospital, residents, attendings while at the same time not make the effort to learn the language, do any work, while not even having the most basic knowledge about a patient's pathology or therapy. The least they could have done (out of common decency) is to do their bashing in private. It is unfortunately a few rotten apples that spoil the bunch.

On the other hand, I have worked with a few foreign students from those schools who have been nothing short of excellent. They would consistently put in long hours on the wards and be very sharp academically. It was a pleasure working with them.

Lastly, the students in the Spanish program at UNIBE were for the most part great to work with. Granted they are mostly Dominicans or from Puerto Rico/Cuba/Latin America; but as a whole, out of all the UNIBE students I worked with they seemed the most knowledgeable, bright, and willing to learn.

As far as "El Pequeno's" comments are concerned, he does make a very valid point. I did some asking around as to who these alumni were that got into the hospitals in Philli and Florida. According to my sources, if we are thinking about the same people, and odds are that we are, we should make the following observations:

1. These alumni were all in the Spanish Program, not the English

2. These alumni are all Dominican

3. Three of these alumni transfered into UNIBE from another school in Santo Domingo.

4. One of these four alumni is not from UNIBE, she attended and graduated from a different medical school in Santo Domingo.

5. They are extremely bright students, and by extremely bright I mean gifted. The non-UNIBE graduate graduated from here medical school Magna Cum Laude, Top of her Class, and got over 95 in both of her boards.

6. They all put in a lot of hard work while in medical school.

That's my 2 cents.

Guacanagarix wrote:

guacanacar wrote:
At UNIBE, Most of students do not study, u need only OLD EXAM. IF u graduated 10 years ago u would not be suprise that prof is still giving out same old exam. no matter what, u will get ur MD there. many students not having any basic knowledge at all but with old exam they will get their As. u might wonder what is happening there. it is sad but it is unibe 's reality. Admin is very happy as long as $$$$$$ coming in.

Then why in the world would UNIBE's classes be full with students both in the spanish speaking classes and english? Surely if all you need to do is get old exams (which by the way can also be had in USA schols) then why even go to classes?

Non Dominican students who have negative remarks about some professors must truly believe the grass is greener everywhere else. Wait till they have the pleasure of having to suck up to some despicable, questionably competent attending in the USA or any country for that matter.

Or wait till those people are in a residency program in the USA and basically must "shut up and do the work" regardless of how much is service and not learning oriented. They may long to be back with some of those UNIBE teachers like Dr. Chanlatte.

Those students I knew whose course of study became complaining and not learning/studying never have passed boards.

Do you mean to say there are no sick patients at say Salvadore Gautier Hospital? or La Maternidad, or Hospital Militar, Padre Billini, or Childrens Hospital; to learn from? Pre-surgical rotation animal laboratory was fascinating, though I did not feel wonderful about using dogs, but we learned many procedures.

Seria muy buena idea si ellos aprenderian Espanol asi podrian sacar altos beneficios educativos.

Read Derek Sampsons masterpiece post.

Amen
Saludos a mis companeros Dominicanos

October,

what can you tell me about the programs at UNPHU or PUCMM? these schools appear to have good reputations. I speak Spanish fluently so that would not be a problem

thanks