Hello Derek, and other UNIBE alums and current students.

First of all, I would like to thank Derek very much for his masterpiece article “Life after UNIBE”. I can not empathized enough how useful it’s in clarifying a lot of concerns that many of us (prospective UNIBE students) had.

Now, I would really appreciate it if Derek and those who are currently in attendance would provide more info, including their personal experiences and opinions. Other things like admissions process, how easy or difficult to get in, etc. Info about the daily life, the country, and other tips will also be great.

Thank you all.

bringslte@yahoo.com

While I'm not a student at UNIBE, I'm enrolled at UTESA, I can speak to my experience at the admissions office at UNIBE. I came to Santo Domingo with UTESA in my sights as my father is an alumnist there and his studies there went very well, I saw no reason for the greater expense for what is likely to amount to a similar education. After actually meeting with the admissions people at UTESA I found that I would have to repeat many undergrad pre-medical courses. I suspected that would be the case as I made many academic mistakes as an undergrad (if that weren't the case I wouldn't be going to med school in the DR right?) In any case after UTESA informed that I would have to take about two semester of pre-medical courses before I could begin in the actual medical program a friend of mine who is a similar situation with pre-med courses at UTESA went to UNIBE to see what they would require, hoping perhaps that they would be more forgiving and allow you to forgo those pre-med semesters. Unfortunately their answer was no. More specifically their "new" admissions policy requires that any student with an overall GPA of less than a 2.5 repeat all the pre-med courses outlined on their online course prospectus. Initially the woman with whom we dealt insisted that only the science GPA needed to be over 2.5 to skip the pre-medical requirements, after we proved that we could satisfy that requirement, she left and conferred presumably with another official and returned to inform us that the OVERALL GPA needed to be over a 2.5 in order to be able to skip their premedical four semesters. In other words there appears to be a discrepancy between the websites information and what we were told in person. It is to be assumed that the schools down here are in business to maximize the amount of time you're going to be paying tuition. There is no getting around that fact, in light of that these schools (UTESA and UNIBE) are very unyielding with regard to pre-medical requirements, grades in these pre-med courses and most importantly, having fullfilled the pre-reqs for the courses you're trying to get transferred over. For example, in order for you to transfer your Physics grades from undergrad you have to have completed pre-calc, regardless of how well you did in Physics they will not transfer those credits unless you have completed pre-calc, the same applies for chemistry and other such classes. Bear in mind that most students in their average undergrad careers, particularly if they were heavy in the sciences, will not have taken many of the pre-med courses required by UTESA and UNIBE, so beware. Notwithstanding, ANYONE will get in. While I can't speak to that fact for UNIBE, I know that for UTESA you are guaranteed admission, it simply becomes an issue of how many semesters of premed you will have to repeat (four being the max) I assume it to be the same for UNIBE as they would gladly have accepted me as a student in their pre-medical program. What you then have to consider is what your options are. Are two semesters really that big a deal for you as compared to what you would otherwise be doing with your life? I know that for many there are numerous mitigating circumstances, but in my case I was content to repeat those two semesters, particularly as I knew that my orgo background was poor and could use some clarification, additionally, many of you will probably benefit to some degree from the spanish courses you'll take if you choose to take them. Ultimately I found that at either UTESA or UNIBE the ease of entrance was virtually the same, the only fundamental difference was the price and appearance of each school. I can't speak to the comparative quality of education as I'm not a medical student in either school just yet, I can only allow the tenure of each school to speak for itself. 1974 for UTESA and 1984 for UNIBE. Not bad track records. I hope this answered some of your questions, if there is anything else that I can clarify for you please don't hesitate to ask.
Also, with regard to the living situation in the country there is much to be said about this. I can tell you that I'm living with a family from my local church at a reasonable rate close to the Herrera campus of UTESA. I'm paying 150.00 US dollars a month for rent and with all my other expenses including transportation, food, broadband internet and phone my expenses thus far have been about 300 US dolllars per month including rent. Since the peso was spiralled in value recently your dollar does buy more than it did a few weeks ago, however, prices are quickly rising to fill in the gap. I don't make budget plans with the present exchange rate of 49.00 pesos to a dollar as it's clear that the economy can't stand that for much longer. In any event your dollar will go a long way for the forseable future and you might find that your monthly expenses might be even less than that. There are cheaper places to live than where I am living and if you live with others you can even further reduce your expenses. It's all about what you're comfortable with. Rest assured that Santo Domingo has something to fit every need, taste, and budget, the trick is finding it. Don't count on any help from anyone from you University, other than perhaps students you might make friends with. The officials aren't there to facilitate your transition to this country, they're there to be mired in red tape, so figure that when you come down here you're largely on your own. In that regard it's in your best interest to develop some kind of contant in the country that can help you to at least get your footing, otherwise it can be an intimidating task, particularly if you don't speak spanish, exceedingly few people speak english here. At any rate, hope this has been of some help, please let me know if there is anything else I might be able to answer for you. God Bless.
Ozzie.

Hi Ozzie,

Thank you very much for the valuable info. It's scary to know about the pre-med mess. I certainly do not want to repeat any of my pre-med courses. On the other hand, both my science and overall gpa are over 3.0 (barely), so hopefully I will not face this hurdle. I speak little Spanish, but can understand pretty well.

Do you know anything about the other school in Santo Domingo (Universidad central Del Este)? Is t also a similar situation like UTESA and UNIBE as far as pre-med stuff?

Over all, would you say that Stafford alone will be enough to cover all the expanses (for a moderate spender)? Also, how many disbursements are available (are the 3 semester considered one or two academic years for the sake of disbursing the loan)? What about buying a car or a scooter? and can I bring one fom the States?

Finally, do you know if UNIBE has any European or US hospital affiliation for clinical?


Thanks again Ozzie, and best of luck to you...

I think you should be fine and shouldn't have to repeat any pre0med courses with the grades you have, although that's something that you should make clear as glass with the admissions people you speak with. Here you have to pose questions in unmistakable terms. example...
"Are you absolutely certain that I won't have to repeat any pre-med classes? I can start right away with first semester of medicine?"
"well sir I can't be COMPLETELY sure, but I think yes..."
this is a recipe for disaster...Immediately as for her superior and who's the final word on transfer evaluations, you'll save yourself heartache of coming and discovering that you have more semesters ahead of you than you imagined. But with you solid grades that shouldn't be a problem, at least if you're to guide yourself but what we were told at the admissions office in person
With regard to UCE I know a couple of things. Back in the day my father originally started off at UCE and due to a series of scandals and non-professional behaviour he transferred out. When I mention UCE to professionals down here today a few hold UCE in a questionable light. Their program is in Spanish so you'll have to advance your spanish pretty quickly, and in all honesty I don't konw if they've been able to repair the problems their program had all those years ago. With specific regard to pre-med requirements I have no reason to believe they would be any different from UNIBE and UTESA except that they don't have a program specifically tailored to foreign student and therefore are arguably less likely to have the "milk you of your dollars as long as we can" mentality of these other two schools. Don't get me wrong, I'm not unappreciative, compared to the cost of an education and living expenses back home, even UNIBE's prices are more than reasonable. It's when you compare the prices that Foreign students pay compared to Dominicans, in UTESA's case about US$200.00 per semester for Dominicans versus US$2,500.00 for us foreigners, that it's clear we're being taken advantage of. But it's all good, we're blessed to have the opportunity we're being offered here.

As per the number of disbursements for loans in a year I don't know since UTESA isn't a title IV school. Although I believe that I've read in UNIBE's bulletin that they lump together two trimesters as one academic year for loan purposes. If it's anything like undergrad there will be two disbursements per year, although I'm not sure that there wouldn't just be one. That's a question for someone actually receiving stafford loans there already. In regards to your budget questions, if you're a little frugal you should be able to live quite well with the full loan amount per year provided you find a reasonable place to live. Many students come here and find $300.00 apartments, if that's your plan then your money wont go far. But with 150.00 bucks your loan money should last for expenses, not including books mind you and airfare home, we're talking strictly living expenses while in the DR.
As for buying a car, you can get a used ride a little beat up for around $1,500.00 or less, Iv'e seen a couple for around $800.00 or so. Bear in mind however that it's no picnic to break down on one of the roads here and a used car can quickly turn into an economic nightmare for a student on a fixed budget having to make constant repairs. You can get around just fine on public transit and it's a lot cheaper. A scooter on the other hand is dirt cheap down here and fuel efficient. However, if after you arrive here you still feel that you want to get around in a scooter I commend you. In all honesty I guess if you're not too timid it's not a bad option, something to consider for sure.
Finally, with regard to clinicals, at UTESA these are in local hospitals and I believe the same is true of UNIBE. However, as with many other aspect of your education it is your responsibility to arrange a lot of things for yourself and if you have the connections and are able to do the footwork it is possible for you to arrange some clinicals in the states for yourself. Bear in mind however that the clinical semesters here are tightly packed and it might be difficult for you to do a rotation in the states without seriously altering the order of events for your tightly orchestrated clinical here in the DR. But as it stands I know that at UTESA your clinicals will be in the DR unless you arrange otherwise, I believe the same applies at UNIBE. As for the merits of wanting to do a clinical in the states, I suppose if you were looking into a highly technical specialty it might behoove you to try and do that general rotation in the states, otherwise I think there's a lot to be said for doing clinicals here where you will have hands on experience unrivaled by any american school. In my as yet uneducated opinion, I think that goes a long way to preparing you for what you will experience in your residency. You're probably likely to feel a little less intimidated than you otherwise might. Just a thought.
Hope this helps. Let me know if there is anything else I can answer for you. Take care and God Bless.
Ozzie.

Ozzie,

Thanks lot for your insights. You have definitely explained some stuff that would have been hard to figure out by reading through the schools glossy literature and flashy web sites.

I am still going to give the April MCAT a shot (for the heck of it), and still apply for the Sep. Class at UNIBE. I will keep you posted.

Thanks again, and best of luck to you.

Mutaz

This has been a recurring theme, not only on this but other forums...Just thought I'd throw in my $0.02...

>After actually meeting with the admissions people at UTESA I found that >I would have to repeat many undergrad pre-medical courses. I >suspected that would be the case as I made many academic mistakes >as an undergrad (if that weren't the case I wouldn't be going to med >school in the DR right?) In any case after UTESA informed that I would ?>have to take about two semester of pre-medical courses before I could >begin in the actual medical program

I agree with UTESA 1000%. Why should ANY medschool admit you into their med program WITHOUT successfully completing ALL the necessary premed requirents (Bio, Chem, Orgo, Physics, Math, etc). ESPECIALLY in light of what you mentioned that you did not do well in your US premeds. Did you actually think UTESA was going to admit you directly into the med program??

>a friend of mine who is a similar
>situation with pre-med courses at UTESA went to UNIBE to see what
>they would require, hoping perhaps that they would be more forgiving
>and allow you to forgo those pre-med semesters. Unfortunately their
>answer was no.

"UNFORTUNATELY"???
I don't mean to sound like a grumpy lecturing old maid, but WHY IN DA HAIIIILLL should UNIBE require any less of students entering the med program?? I apologize if I am getting the wrong perception of you, but it seems to me that you want to skirt/dodge the basic premed requirements and just walk directly into a med program. Premed req's exist for a REASON, whether in the US or Europe, Carinbbean, etc. The DR is no different. You already mentioned that you did not fare well in the premed classes in the US. THEN HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO HANDLE MEDICAL SCHOL CLASSES?? Do you think that just because it is the DR, that this is gonna be some cakewalk?? You have a lot to learn my friend.

>More specifically their "new" admissions policy requires
>that any student with an overall GPA of less than a 2.5 repeat all the pre-
>med courses outlined on their online course prospectus. Initially the
>woman with whom we dealt insisted that only the science GPA needed to
>be over 2.5 to skip the pre-medical requirements, after we proved that
>we could satisfy that requirement, she left and conferred presumably
>with another official and returned to inform us that the OVERALL GPA
>needed to be over a 2.5 in order to be able to skip their premedical four
>semesters.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, I really don't want to come off as a hard-butt, but first of all, someone with a LESS THAN 2.5 GPA shouldn't even be in med school. That person needs to get his/her academic act together BEFORE embarking on such a venture. Did you even read my "life after UNIBE" post when I mentioend that different "unconquered demons" that can/WILL be a hinderance to success?? Well, ACADEMIC demons IS one of the demons that people try to run from, only to have it catch up with you and bite you in the butt later on. You don't see it now from your vantage point, but I see that EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK in the region of the country that I am in. Lots of people just wasting away, doing nothing, and no boards passed after numerous attempts and numerous years, because they failled to address the unconquered ACADEMIC demon, that caught up with them at the WORST possible time, BOARDS TIME.

>In other words there appears to be a discrepancy between the websites
>information and what we were told in person. It is to be assumed that
>the schools down here are in business to maximize the amount of time
>you're going to be paying tuition.

While that makes for an EASY reationalization, if you did the premed req's properly, neither UNIBE NOR UTESA would have any reason to keep you any longer. To put this in context, what about US medschools who make you repeat the ENTIRE semester (or in the case of the Univ of Miami, the entire academic YEAR) if you fail one or more courses (ALONG WITH the courses that you PASSED)?? How come nobody accuses them of fincncial incentive (and UM gets at LEAST $25,000+ per student per academic year)
Don't fool yourselves, ALL medical institutions, here in the US and abroad are in it for the $$. If you HONESTLY believe that US medschools exist SOLELY for altruistic purposes, then, I got a bridge in Broooklyn I'd like to sell ya (real cheap, bargain, I promise).

>There is no getting around that fact, in
>light of that these schools (UTESA and UNIBE) are very unyielding with
>regard to pre-medical requirements, grades in these pre-med courses
>and most importantly, having fullfilled the pre-reqs for the courses
>you're trying to get transferred over.

AND WHY SHOULY THEY?? Do you honestly think any school in the US would cut you the same break on the premed req's?? I THINK NOT. So why should the Dr schools be any different.
Some things never change...It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people out there that just want to walk right into medschool with no prereqs and no proper background and have an MD degree just handed to them. People like that SCARE me.

>For example, in order for you to
>transfer your Physics grades from undergrad you have to have
>completed pre-calc, regardless of how well you did in Physics they will
>not transfer those credits unless you have completed pre-calc, the same
>applies for chemistry and other such classes. Bear in mind that most
>students in their average undergrad careers, particularly if they were
>heavy in the sciences, will not have taken many of the pre-med courses
>required by UTESA and UNIBE, so beware. Notwithstanding, ANYONE will
>get in.

At the time I applied for UNIBE (in 1995), it was pretty much open admissions. As the years went on, and more people started to apply, people started to get rejected. These schools usually follow the same pattern as most institutions (whether they be educational or governmental), they usually start out pretty liberal at forst, then all it takes for a few KNUCKLEHEADS who try to play, abuse, and cheat the system. The end result being a more rigid/hard-butt/unwielding flavor. the same could be said about residencies, medicare, medicaid, offshore med schools, ETC...Pick your institution.

>Ultimately I found that at either UTESA or UNIBE
>the ease of entrance was virtually the same, the only fundamental
>difference was the price and appearance of each school. I can't speak to
>the comparative quality of education as I'm not a medical student in
>either school just yet, I can only allow the tenure of each school to
>speak for itself. 1974 for UTESA and 1984 for UNIBE. Not bad track
>records.

As is said many times in the past, you get what you pay for. YES, UNIBE is the more expensive than either UTESA or UCE, and please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be a cheerleader for any school, but all one has to do is visit each school and see the construction/expansion/;new projects embarked upon by each school. These things are NOT cheap. You don't create an ENTIRE NEW FLOOR of a BUILDING, provide free internet access to the folks in the library, build a new parking deck, and a new kaplan center, etc with nothing. The funding for expansion has to come from SOMEWHERE. One does not need a business degree to know that tuition at schold doing these things WILL be higher.
>I don't make budget plans with the present
>exchange rate of 49.00 pesos to a dollar

49.00 pesos????? GOOD LAWD!!!!!!! It was 16 pesos/dollar when I graduated. Looks as if I need to take my butt there for a MUCH needed vacation...It's been 5 years overdue.

God Bless...PEACE!!

-Derek Sampson, MD

__________________
Moderator - UNIBE, Main Foreign Med Schools

A recurring theme in these forums is the criticism of newcomers in these chats. Allow me to clarify my situation as my comments were taken out of context.
I never implied that UTESA or any other university should admit any student without having completed any pre-medical courses. However, I have completed all of the standard pre-medical courses save for organic chemistry 2 and two labs. UTESA and UNIBE both require many "pre-medical" courses not heard of as requirements in american medical schools. Sociology, Anthropology, Intro to Computers, Statistics (not all med schools in the states require this) General Psychology, World History, various levels of English, Typing, and Environmental Education to name a few. What I am saying is that these are not courses that you average American pre-medical student would necesarily take during the course of his undergraduate education. This unwary student would then present himself to UNIBE or UTESA and find, much to his/her dismay that he would have to take all these courses before he could enter into the medical program. This student X thought he was ok with just having completed orgo, physics, their labs, biology, the basic pre-med courses. I am telling this student that it is not always so. I am not saying that a university, any university, should admit a student into a medical program without having taken any premedical courses. However, if that student has a bachelors degree in the sciences and has taken physics and orgo, biology, college math etc. I do believe that student should be admitted. I realize the need to demand pre-med courses but some of their "pre-med" requirments are obviously courses irrelavent to your studies in medicine and in my opinion are there as requirements to prolong the amount of time a student will be paying tuition. When's the last time you saw an American medical school sending a medical applicant back to college because he didn't take a typing course, or take sociology or intro to computers. etc. I'm here to tell people to beware that things are different here.

With regard to your second point, my friend is in the same situation as I. She has also completed the traditional pre-med courses. She has a bachelors degree in Biochemistry. As you can imagine a biochemistry major has little room in their schedule for such courses as sociology, psychology, or typing. While she has completed the traditional pre-med courses, she hasn't completed these other pre-med requirements, unique to dominican schools (UTESA and UNIBE so far) I do expect that UNIBE and UTESA would both be willing to accept a student with a bachelors degree in Biochemistry directly into the medical program. Don't you? Such was not the case. I am here to bring that to people's attention lest anyone in the same boat think that the road to medical school here in Santo Domingo will be smooth sailing with a biochemistry degree or for that matter any other science related major intense in science and weak in the humanities.

In regard to your third point, what do you propose people who have made academic mistakes should do with their lives. We aare all attending foreign schools because we all have had our demons. I have come here because I have slain mine and am ready to finish my career. The fact that I am ready now doesn't erase the mistakes I've made in the past. I can only look back on those times and realize which mistakes I can't repeat in the future. Here in Santo Domingo you have nothing to prove to anyone. Schools will accept you and in many cases pass you along. The true trial, if you wish to practice in the US is, as you said, to pass the boards. I have every confidence that I will and that's the only opportunity I seek. An opportunity I denied myself in the US because of the academic mistakes I made. Here in Santo Domingo the don't care about your mistakes, they give you the chance that we all deserve, regarless of what GPA we had as undergrads. The boards will weed out those who weren't meant for medicine, be it because they got in over their heads, or because they came to party, whatever the reason. The moral of this story is that we ALL deserve an opportunity, regardless of our grades and our resumes. What we make of that opportunity is something we each will have to live with. I know that I will excel in my courses here and that I will pass my boards and I will enter into a residency in the United States, all I needed was the chance, and I had to come to Santo Domingo to find it.

In regards to your following point. I agree completely. There is a difference however, in the example you cited, which is a common practice among many med schools in the states, you are repeating Medical School courses. There is no american medical school who will accept you on the condition that you go back to undergrad and take typing, world history, intro to computers, anthropology, etc. They might not accept you on the grounds that you didn't excel sufficiently in the courses you did take or your performance in your science coursee, but few if any schools will penalize you for not having taken these humanities courses in your undergraduate years as these courses are not traditionally pre=medical requirements. Furthermore, in Santo Domingo while you would possible have to take these humanities courses, were you to fail a semester or a course you would likely have to repeat that semester or at the very least the course (obviously) In contrast, in the US, you fail a medical course, you repeat the medical semester, this is all of course after you've been admitted with your bachelors degree which may or may not include the humanities courses I mentioned above. I'll say it again, American medical school simply don't require these courses of you. All schools are in it for the money to a degree. In the US the cost of running a medical school is significantly greater than it is here, explaining in part the greater cost. However here the greed is IN YOUR FACE when you compare the discrepancy in prices paid per credit for dominicans and for foreigners. They demand these higher prices because they know we have the need and the means and they have the service. This is blatant greed. In the US there are not such price discrepancies, save for variations in in-state tuition paid versus out-of-state tuition which is easily explain by subsidies, which again go to running the school and it's research etc. Private schools often charge more because they must bear a higher burden of their funding through tuition rather than federal or state funding that public universities enjoy. In any case, I feel I've made my point. Everyone's in it for the money, but let's call a spade a spade. Not that I'm complaining by any means, I'm making out like a bandit with these pirate tuition rates here in santo domingo. That doesn't negate the fact that their obviously exploitative prices.

Your next point. Though I've already touched on it several times I'll reiterate for those who didn't already get it. No one is expecting that people fresh outta high school should be admitted into gross anatomy. However, people with a bachelors degree and resonable grades in the traditional pre-medical courses SHOULD be admitted directly into medicine. Those who didn't take the humanities courses I've mentioned ad naseum here shouldn't be penalized for that. But that's the way the cookie crumbles here. Things are different and I'm bringing that to people's attention. I'm sure not all people have had these problems, I can only speak to my own experience. I'm here to share that with others who are asking about people who are actually fighting these battles in the present.

I can see where things will tend to get more and more strict with entrance requirements. As you said there are always those who try to get something for nothing. Those people know who they are. I am not among them nor is my friend. We are simply trying to get what is rightfully ours, at least in accordance with an american medical school mindset. However, we're not in America, so you live with it. No sweat, I thank the Lord everyday that I'm here and finally in medical school, all be it a few semesters removed.

Hope this clears a few things up. I realize I neglected to mention a few details but I feel I've more than compensated for that here. God Bless and good luck to all.
Ozzie.

Boy! these are some very old posts.

I am hoping someone is still around ?

I need some info about UTESA. Does anyone know if UTESA med grad can get license in California??

Academic demons; is 2.0 not = to a C grade? Is C not a passing grade? C is not a failing grade is it? Granted it is tough to compete with someone with a 3.0 - 4.0. I think the student can try to apply him/her self and see if they can succeed. The question is if they are willing to invest time and money moving to another country.

Another perspective is to think about medical colleges that grade on a P or F, pass or fail. Perhaps they have an H for those seeking honors also.
Many have applied themselves and succeeded and the only way they would have known was to actually try.

As far as classes that do seem irrelevant to medicine, I empathize with you, but it is another country and perhaps they view it differently. Didn't you know that USMLE has questions about "The History of the Dominican Republic"? LOL

__________________
================================================== =
Take this soul, strand it in some skin and bones
take this soul. and make it sane, sane

what no man can own..... only God can take
take this heart, take this heart. take this heart

and let it break

Ozzie,
Now you are in the medical profession.Need to practice evidence based 'talking'.

Your pitch about UCE was a blatant lie.
The fact that it was BOTH UTESA and UCE which was WRONGLY maligned in the SCANDAL.At the end they were CLEARED.


Anyway, UCE was not connected.Neither was UTESA.Here is a quote from NY TIMES-..."Dr. Montalvo said the investigation had found no wrongdoing at two other medical schools, Universidad Tecnologica de Santiago, or Utesa, and Universidad Central del Este, or U.C.E."

The two schools that were connected to the scandal were,Universidad Centro de Estudios Tecnologicos, commonly called Cetec, and Universidad Centro de Investigacion, or Cifas.

Here is the NY Times link to the story

DOCTORS HARMED BY DOMINICAN CASE - New York Times




Ozzie, the least you can do is apologize to UCE,its alumini, its students.
This shows you in poor light.Pls dont pass heresay from your relations on this forum as FACTS.

UCE founded in 1970, is a title IV school[UTESA is not, would like find out why] with 50 states acceptance, remains one of the top schools in Carribean and Latin America, with its own state of the art hospital.