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  1. #1
    drvempire is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Smile info wanted regarding new program

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    hello, i wanted to know abt the new MD in clinical medicine program thats jus started by the university of buckingham, west london,its a post graduate masters degree in internal medicine. any extra info would be helpful.

  2. #2
    Back_To_School is offline Member 510 points
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    This has come up before. This isn't a state medical school and there is no such qualification so it is completely worthless.

    The UK awards the following medical degrees: MBBChir, BMBCh, MBBCh, MBChB, BMBS, and the MBBS. These are all exactly the same as each other and exactly the same as the American/European 'MD' but, in the UK they never, ever actually award an 'MD' as this is a completely different qualification over here as it is a post graduate research degree and of a higher level.

    Any university that is based in the UK that claims to offer an 'MD' (the basic medical degree not the research one) is a scam as it will never be recognized by the GMC.
    MPharm 1

  3. #3
    BrendaB_MD is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    ...............

    ............................
    Last edited by BrendaB_MD; 08-27-2010 at 10:53 PM.

  4. #4
    diogenes is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by drvempire View Post
    hello, i wanted to know abt the new MD in clinical medicine program thats jus started by the university of buckingham, west london,its a post graduate masters degree in internal medicine. any extra info would be helpful.
    It's a shame that you have duplicated this request for information as we now have a reprise of the original misunderstandings and ill-informed comment. (http://www.valuemd.com/uk-irish-medi...uckingham.html)
    Quote Originally Posted by Back_To_School View Post
    This has come up before. This isn't a state medical school and there is no such qualification so it is completely worthless.
    Please see my posts in the thread linked above. I'm sorry that you have chosen to ignore those comments which were largely based on simple, eminently verifiable facts which you've not actually controverted. As I elucidated previously, Buckingham's status as a private university has no bearing on its ability to award legitimate U.K. degrees or that these are "worthless".
    Quote Originally Posted by Back_To_School View Post
    The UK awards the following medical degrees: MBBChir, BMBCh, MBBCh, MBChB, BMBS, and the MBBS. These are all exactly the same as each other and exactly the same as the American/European 'MD' but, in the UK they never, ever actually award an 'MD' as this is a completely different qualification over here as it is a post graduate research degree and of a higher level.
    This is neither here nor there in a discussion of Buckingham's "MD in Clinical Medicine". This is an Indian-style MD: a post-grad. specialist (or semi-specialist) qualification that mixes theory and hands-on clinical experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Back_To_School View Post
    Any university that is based in the UK that claims to offer an 'MD' (the basic medical degree not the research one) is a scam as it will never be recognized by the GMC.
    But this is not the "basic medical degree" - something about which both the OP and Bucks. University are very clear. The GMC simply does not concern itself with validation of post-grad. courses. As was explained before, the QAA, as the relevant body, will be quality- assuring: not the GMC's QABME which only has a remit to deal with undergraduate medical education.
    They have rather cleverly decided to fill a gap in the medical education market that has been created by the new rules regarding both work permits and eligibility for post-graduate medical training here. Calling the degree an MD is, I am sure, designed to attract newly-qualified doctors from the Indian sub-continent for whom both the course title and content will have considerable resonance.
    Calling the degree an MD may be novel, controversial and for some, unpalatable in the British context. However, it is simply a reflection of an increasingly internationalized market in all kinds of education, including medicine. Nth. Americans award an MD as basic qualification, we sometimes award it as an honorary degree to the "great and the good" in the bio-medical field regardless of whether they have ever wielded steth. or scalpel; the Indians do something else altogether. Bucks. may have added to the bewildering alphabet soup of medical qualifications and scope for cross-cultural misunderstanding- but "scam"? Any real evidence for that calumny?
    Quote Originally Posted by BrendaB_MD View Post
    According to the Buckingham discussion on Wiki, they have no medical school at present. As stated in the post above, the MD is only open to those who have already competed a medical degree. According to the discussion, it is not clear how the Buckingham version of MD will compare to the traditional research-based MD.
    As usual with Wiki there is good, bad and dreadful here. The first couple of paragraphs are bizarrely irrelevant, inaccurate and rambling.
    However, I do think that the later discussion of how this qualification might actually further anyone's career is useful, albeit a little chaotic and unclear at times. Some of this was astutely mentioned by Osiris in the original thread.
    I hope by now it will be a little clearer that the Bucks' MD is not competing with, and should not be compared to "the traditional research-based MD".
    The real issue is will it compare with those Indian MD's as a post-graduate stepping stone to higher things.
    They do have a fledgling school - albeit one that until 2010 is solely post-graduate.
    So, to drvempire:
    I don't know where you intend to practise and thus some of my comments may not hit the spot. However I'll try.
    I hope it's now plain that the course is not a "scam" and is as you originally asked "legit". The academic and clinical bodies and personnel involved are certainly reputable.
    If you're looking to advance your career in Sth. Asia then you need to be clear about recognition of the 2-year degree there and comparisons with (3-year?) local MD's.
    I know that the school has posted a link to an Indian High Commision announcement concerning recognition. However it does not mention Bucks. specifically and does state that "that these degrees should be recognized in the respective country for enrolment of medical practitioners in the concerned specialties." -Press Release Details : HCI London
    So check that one out if you need to.
    It's been mentioned on the Wiki (and by Osiris) that this is not standard U.K. post-graduate medical education of the kind much sought-after and now largely denied to non-EU citizens. There are questions to be asked about exactly how much clinical experience you will get and whether the lack of ultimate clinical responsibility (assuming you are not on the GMC register) will really limit the benefits of the course. I feel that the Wiki comments on this are a little premature and may be overstated.
    There are always legitimate concerns about clinical training: will it be well-organized; well-taught; have a sufficient patient-base?
    Unfortunately these are questions which are not easily answered here and now on VMD. That's partly because VMD's basic constituency is not so much concerned with post-grad. medical courses, but mostly because this course is so new and such an unknown quantity.
    I would suggest that apart from checking on overseas recognition (if you need to do so), you talk some more to the teachers about these issues of clinical exposure etc. in order to get a clearer idea of what you will get for your investment. These are legitimate and intelligent questions and no responsible clinician/academic should object or obfuscate - especially as this is a new school.
    Would another possibility be to defer starting the course for a little while so that you can at least get some feedback from other students after they have been there for some months? Again, the course officials should not object to putting you in touch.
    Anyone contemplating this course must also understand that it should not be regarded as a back door into U.K. medical employment - for the moment at least I cannot see that this degree on its own will achieve that for a non-EU citizen.
    Last edited by diogenes; 09-02-2008 at 07:29 AM.
    "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."
    Samuel Beckett, "Worstward Ho", 1983

  5. #5
    Back_To_School is offline Member 510 points
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    OK OK, I was just trying to illustrate that their 'MD' does not fit into any UK conventions. It simply seems to try to offer non-EU Docs a way to do post-graduate training in the UK which they would otherwise be unable to do but, why on earth would Indians spend a bucket load of cash living in the UK and paying tuition for a non-state school which isn't going to be able to offer you much in the way of clinical contact, has no resemblance whatsoever to PGY training in internal medicine in the UK and perhaps will only be reconignized in parts of Asia as you are certainly not going to be able to use the qualification in the western world.

    Surely doing post-graduate training in any of the numerous EU state schools that offer it to English speaking graduates would be far superior.

    It is just trying to appeal to people that think because they are getting a qualifcation from a UK school it will be special in some way. When in all reality it will be a complete waste of their money.

    The fact they are calling it an 'MD' should be sending alarm bells ringing and indicating that they preying on a certain type of person.
    Last edited by Back_To_School; 09-02-2008 at 08:18 AM.
    MPharm 1

  6. #6
    drvempire is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Smile sorry

    firstly , thank you very much osiris and diogenes, your replies surely did clear a lot of my doubts.
    i did not mean to post the thread here again ,i posted it in the main foreign medical schools section and the post got relocated back here.
    so, sorry abt that.....didnt mean to cause more confusion.
    i finished my m.b.b.s from india,i wated more options other than doin a pg in india, i actually want to settle in the states but the route to a residency is jus ridiculously hard now with the number of applicants increasing every year , so to save time i joined this couse from the university of buckingham offering a post graduate degree in internal medicine.
    since i cant focus on the states now im tryin to get good credentials to get a good job here in dubai where i was born an bought up.
    here a uk degree is anyday more valuable than an indian one.
    during my two year couse in uk im plannin on attaining either an frcp or mrcp, after which i would further try and get a fellowship from the states for which u don have to take the usmles.
    this should help me land a good job here in U.A.E.
    so yeah thats the plan for now.......
    any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreaciated.
    thank you.

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