Which states currently use California lists

studentMD · #1 (**permalink**) 04-09-2005, 10:14 PM

this is a good question that user PM'd me with and that has been randomly discussed in multiple fora but not in one particular place that perhaps deserves a thread of its own..

with the users permission to repost, the questions are below..

-----------------
I have 2 questions that I haven't been able to get a concrete answer for:

Which states use the California Approved List for granting Licensure?
ie if you are not on the approved list then you cannot get licensed in that state right away (either you will never be eligible or you will have to get board certified or get licensed in different state first and will be eligible only after that) .

Which states DENY licensure if you are on a California DISAPPROVED list?
ie if you are on the cali disapproved list, which states will not license you, or which states will scrutinize your application more or which states will being on the cali disapproved list create more obstacles in getting licensed (even if eventually you can get licensed there after you have proved you are on the list erroneously)

Miklos · #2 (**permalink**) 04-11-2005, 04:52 AM

Great idea for a thread (and a potential sticky).

I'd like to recommend that everyone who posts on this thread, quote the appropriate medical board and provide the URLs, as I've done below.

Regarding New Mexico;

It looks like New Mexico changed the language of its application package this month.

From their previous packet in November 2004:

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Mexico Medical Board, November 2004

I. REQUIREMENTS FOR LICENSURE BY EXAM

* Education Requirements: All applicants must have graduated from a New Mexico Board-approved medical college or school that has been approved by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME), or has been approved by Medical Board of California.

* Postgraduate Training Requirements: All applicants for a license must have satisfactorily completed twenty-four (24) months of postgraduate medical education in a program approved by the Board. The ACGME Graduate Medical Education Directory and the Directory of Residency Programs of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada are the official lists approved by the Board.

III. REQUIREMENTS FOR LICENSURE BY ENDORSEMENT

Applicants who meet the following requirements may apply for licensure by endorsement:

1. Hold an unrestricted license in another state and be free of disciplinary history, license restrictions, or pending investigations in all states where they hold a license;
2. Passed one of the examinations or combination exams listed above;
3. Graduated from an approved medical school or hold current ECFMG certification; and
4. Have three years of progressive postgraduate training in an accredited program or current certification from a medical specialty board recognized by ABMS.
5. Has been a licensed physician in the United States or Canada and has practiced medicine (not including postgraduate training) in the United States or Canada immediately preceding the application for at least three years.

This has now been changed to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Mexico Medical Board, April 2005

II. REQUIREMENTS FOR LICENSURE BY EXAM

* Education Requirements: All applicants must have graduated and received a diploma from a New Mexico Board approved school, or present proof of completion of a program substantially equivalent to an United States medical school as determined by an international education credential evaluation service approved by the Board.

* Postgraduate Training Requirements: All applicants for a license must have satisfactorily completed twenty-four (24) months of postgraduate medical education in a program approved by the Board. The ACGME Graduate Medical Education Directory and the Directory of Residency Programs of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada are the official lists approved by the Board.

* Examination Requirements: All applicants must have successfully passed one of the examination or combination of examinations listed above.

III. REQUIREMENTS FOR LICENSURE BY ENDORSEMENT

Applicants who meet the following requirements may apply for licensure by endorsement, which means the Board does not require primary source verification of medical education, transcripts, postgraduate training and examination history:

1. Hold an unrestricted license in another state and be free of disciplinary history, license restrictions, or pending investigations in
all states where they hold a license;
2. Graduated from an approved medical school or hold current ECFMG certification;
3. Hold current certification from a medical specialty board recognized by ABMS; and
4. Has been a licensed physician in the United States or Canada and has practiced medicine (not including postgraduate
training) in the United States or Canada immediately preceding the application for at least three years.

So, it looks like New Mexico is not strictly using the California list anymore.

But, I'd contact them to be sure, because their regulations still list the following definition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Mexico Medical Board Definitions

16.10.2.7 DEFINITIONS.

A. “Board approved school” means a medical college or school that has been approved by the liaison committee on medical education, composed of the American medical association and the association of American medical colleges, has a liaison council on medical education (LCME)-approved curriculum or equivalent for graduates of Canadian schools, is on the approved list of the California state medical board, or has been approved by the board.

roper · #3 (**permalink**) 04-11-2005, 10:48 AM

Some states won't license graduates if another state disapproves of the school. California's list is important because most states don't even have approved/disapproved lists.

ASIANDOC · #4 (**permalink**) 05-12-2005, 09:30 AM

Based on personal experiences and applications,my advise is get license in easier state,practice for 5 years,get BC,then you can get license anywhere in the USA except Texas and CA .
States that uses CA are TX,NM,ID,VT,IN.
NM: ok with license 3 yrs elsewhere
ID: ok with license elsewhere 5 yrs
VT: not too many interested to go anyway

comming soon to state near you:
things are going to change for the worst very soon,so GO TO APPROVED SCHOOLS ONLY,I strongly believe most of unapproved schools will close down with the new regulations[build libraries,research,US faculty...]
I went to unapproved school and after 20 yrs in practice I will never forgive myself about taking the easier way.

azskeptic · #5 (**permalink**) 05-12-2005, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASIANDOC

Based on personal experiences and applications,my advise is get license in easier state,practice for 5 years,get BC,then you can get license anywhere in the USA except Texas and CA .
States that uses CA are TX,NM,ID,VT,IN.
NM: ok with license 3 yrs elsewhere
ID: ok with license elsewhere 5 yrs
VT: not too many interested to go anyway

comming soon to state near you:
things are going to change for the worst very soon,so GO TO APPROVED SCHOOLS ONLY,I strongly believe most of unapproved schools will close down with the new regulations[build libraries,research,US faculty...]
I went to unapproved school and after 20 yrs in practice I will never forgive myself about taking the easier way.

Also I hear that the risk management folks are starting to look at the approved school lists also in factoring risk in insuring hospitals and physicians.

ASIANDOC · #6 (**permalink**) 05-12-2005, 11:23 AM

the FSMB asking the governments of the carribean schools to set high standards and regulate their schools because its impossible to visit and regulate every international school in the world[over 3000],its the own government job not the FSMB job,if some government ignores the calls I believe they will be removed from ECFMG approval list.the government of St Lucia finally started to take action and to regulate their education.
St lucia were ignoring the issue because they were happy to have 80 students spending money on the Island improving the economy but they do not realize if they have nice Island and high standards they will have 1000 students and more importantly the respect of US officials.
The FSMB approach to the problem will differ from individual states [like CA] because they have to apply rules on every international school that import MD's and not pick and choose regions and give qualified applicants "the death sentance" like even if you practice for 30 yrs in the US you are not eligible for release.

mo5225md · #7 (**permalink**) 11-03-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASIANDOC

I went to unapproved school and after 20 yrs in practice I will never forgive myself about taking the easier way.

First i don't agree with the closing of unapproved schools. SMU is building new campuses and libraries as we speak...so therefore not every unapproved school is going down

secondly...you are a respected and successful doctor..and for those of us that cant get into the US system or to the top four carib schools, the others are our only choice....so by no means is it an easy way out...still just as much studying...just less areas to practice in. But at the end you can still be successul....as you yourself are!....and if you really wanted the recognition and prestige of being able to practice in 50 states...you can still do that by redoing medical school at an approved school.

CaliforniaEquality · #8 (**permalink**) 11-08-2005, 07:22 PM

repost of prior materials. Here is the direct link

http://www.valuemd.com/state-medical...-mistakes.html

And I did a little more research. since I can't edit that link, I will post it here. And if anyone can tell me firmly which states are still using this list full of errors, I will personally write emails to those other state medical boards to inform them this gross mistake.

This recognized medical school list is biased and full of errors. For example, it approved two Cuban medical schools which the board member can’t possibly visit without intentionally violating the federal laws, but none from North Korea. It also listed schools such as, “Saint John’s University” and “Aurora University French School of Medicine” in China which do not even exist. It listed Wales as a country. It intentionally named Chinese province Taiwan as “Republic of Taiwan” which contradicts with the US government's policy.

As you may know, Doctors of osteopathic can practice in all fifty states just like MDs. However, this list did not list any of the osteopathic medical schools in the US. Further more, this list did not even include California’s very own osteopathic school - “Western University of Health Sciences.” Of course, we all know that there are many graduates from Western U that are practicing medicine all over California.

The California medical board set up a list which it itself doesn’t even follow. By allowing all the DO school graduates to practice in California, it clearly has violated its very rule from the day this list was set! Therefore, this list is entirely arbitrary. It simply does not make sense why the board approved schools that they did not visit or schools that don’t even exist. Do the board members really think that those few medicals schools located in those unknown little countries can educate better future physicians than the Caribbean medical schools which are founded by Americans which use American medical textbooks from day one?

Now where is Pat, how will she explain the numerous errors and violations that I have found so far?

It seems that the board’s list sole purpose is to prevent fellow Californians from the caribbean medical schools to practice medicine.

honeybeemd · #9 (**permalink**) 12-12-2005, 10:11 PM

It will always be the case that there will be great physicians who flow from humble medical schools and conversely there will be incompetent rogues who graduate from ivy league medical schools. In the end the greatest determinant of a great physician is the physician. No matter where you graduate from, you have to prove yourself in medicine. And if you can prove yourself in medicine no one can stand in your way - everyone stands aside before the awesome power of a well prepared mind. Ignore the rumor mills and fears and prepare yourself well,and you will succeed.

psychMajor · #10 (**permalink**) 12-12-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeybeemd

It will always be the case that there will be great physicians who flow from humble medical schools and conversely there will be incompetent rogues who graduate from ivy league medical schools. In the end the greatest determinant of a great physician is the physician. No matter where you graduate from, you have to prove yourself in medicine. And if you can prove yourself in medicine no one can stand in your way - everyone stands aside before the awesome power of a well prepared mind. Ignore the rumor mills and fears and prepare yourself well,and you will succeed.

great post...can i put this quote with your name in my signiture?

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