I apologize if this question has already been addressed; however, I did some reading within this forum and did not see that my particular situation had been addressed, so I'm hoping someone here will be able to answer my questions.

I am attending the 4-year English program at PUMS in Poznan, Poland. Our school requires that all core rotations and most of our elective rotations are performed in our university's teaching hospitals. However, we are allowed to perform up to 16 weeks of elective rotations abroad during our 4th year. Since I'm from the U.S., and I want to practice there, I'm really interested in doing 4 months of elective clinicals stateside.

So, my question is how important is it to do elective rotations in ACGME-approved hospitals that have residency training programs for those rotations? Is this something that is important for core rotations only or both core and elective?

I'm considering residency and/or licensure in either New York, Illinois, Colorodo, or California. Presently, our school's 4-year English program is not yet recognized by the State of California, so that's why they're last on my "wish list". Also, I'm aware that New York only allows up to 12 weeks of rotations within the state in order to be able to do residency there, unless of course your school is on their approved list, of which ours is not. Am I right in saying that about the 12 week rule?

Finally, I'm hearing that some states require rotations with affliliated teaching hospitals. Does this apply to core rotations only or core and elective? Either way, our school has a formal agreement with the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine, so I can always do all of my entire 16 weeks of electives via their teaching hospitals. Maybe this is the safest route for me?

Anyway, I want to make sure I have all of my ducks in row, so that I'm not presented with any problems during the residency and licensure process down the road for the above-mentioned states.

So, if anyone has had any experience with this situation or can provide me with some helpful suggestions, I would appreciate it.

__________________
Class of 2008, 4yr MD
Poznan University of Medical Sciences
Poznan, Poland

Student Website: www.poznanmedicine.org

University Website: www.ump.edu.pl

NY Admissions Office Website: www.mdprogram.com

"Dispel from your mind the thought that an understanding of the human body in every aspect of its structure can be given in words..."

- Leonardo da Vinci

actually ur school has to be approved if u want to complete residency in ny.
The rule is you are only allowed to do 12 weeks of rotation, you cannot complete residency BUT you are eligible for permanent licensure after residency if your school is not approved..

If your school is NY approved then everything is fair game, unlimited clinicals, residency and of course permanent licensure...

Can you direct me to where you found out about the 12 week rule and how it applies to residency in New York? I understand how it applies to licensure, but I'm not finding anything about the rule and how it would apply to a residency. My understanding about the 12 week rule is that only students from approved schools listed are allowed to perform more than 12 weeks of clinical rotations in New York; whereas, students from non-approved schools may not. However, I don't see the connection with residency.

http://www.op.nysed.gov/medforms.htm

__________________
Class of 2008, 4yr MD
Poznan University of Medical Sciences
Poznan, Poland

Student Website: www.poznanmedicine.org

University Website: www.ump.edu.pl

NY Admissions Office Website: www.mdprogram.com

"Dispel from your mind the thought that an understanding of the human body in every aspect of its structure can be given in words..."

- Leonardo da Vinci

I don't believe that this is correct. Please show us the relevant passages.

If this were the case, a majority of the IMGs in residency programs in NYS could not be there, as there are only 10 approved medical schools.

The safest bet is to do it at ACGME approved locations within the residency in hospitals that are fully affiliated with the home medical school.

However, that may not always be possible.

Each state treats the calculation of cores and electives in a different way (as well as affiliation). Contact those state medical boards to figure out their requirements. I posted California's requirements and their calculations during a flame war on the EE forum about Charles university. See http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic27405.html

When it comes to electives (not cores), generally speaking the boards are more liberal, as long as the core requirements are fully satisfied!

However, if you are doing an "audition rotation" as an elective, there should be no reason that this rotation is not ACGME approved. Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing the rotation there anyway, right?
The only downside is that it probably would not meet the affiliation requirement.

Miklos

Thanks for the info.. I'm not familiar with the term "audition rotation". Can you tell me what that is?

Thanks!

__________________
Class of 2008, 4yr MD
Poznan University of Medical Sciences
Poznan, Poland

Student Website: www.poznanmedicine.org

University Website: www.ump.edu.pl

NY Admissions Office Website: www.mdprogram.com

"Dispel from your mind the thought that an understanding of the human body in every aspect of its structure can be given in words..."

- Leonardo da Vinci

An "audition rotation" is one done at a hospital where you hope to get a residency. You work your butt off for the month, and then mention that you want to do a residency in that field at that hospital. The hope is that you have sufficiently impressed the powers-that-be and they will want to give you a spot. G

__________________
AUC Class of '99
Bored certified
I may be a jerk, but I'm a Jedi jerk like my father.

Some say I look like Buzz Lightyear....
(They're right)

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

its an issue for students from schools in for example the caribbean where you complete your third and 4rth yr rotations in the us.. if u do ur clerkships back in your own country then its not an issue.. like graduates from medical school in india that complete all of their training in india, they have no problems completing residency in NY.... but coming from the caribbean school and completing ur rotations in the US, school has to be NY approved... i dunno how they would look at doing some of your rotations in the US and some in the original country ...

I called the board about it several yrs ago and you can probably call them and be directed to the appropriate place where you can get more information ...

Thanks. I've e-mailed them. For anyone else who is interested see this post on the EE forum. http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic31150.html

Miklos

Well, I finally heard back from the New York State Board about the 12 week rule. Below is a copy of the reply..

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 10:46:05 -0400
From: "Doug ******" <D******@MAIL.NYSED.GOV>
To: xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: a few questions about the 12 week rule

In answer to your questions:

Q - Does the 12 week rule apply to clerkships in the State of New York only, or does it include any clerkships over 12 weeks outside of one's teaching hospitals, as well?
A - Anyone who does more than 12 weeks outside of the country in which the medical school is located is not eligible for residency training anywhere in NY State.

Q - Does this rule apply to residency, licensure, or both? That is, if a student violates the 12 week rule, and is not eligible for residency in New York, will he/she be eligible for licensure later on?
A - It could impact on licensure if you do more than 12 weeks in NY State since this would be the basis for a class E felony if the school is not approved.

Q - Does this rule apply to core clerkships, elective clerkships, or both? (As a side note, currently, our university only allows us to perform elective clerkships outside of our teaching hospitals.)
A - Both.

Q - If a school such as ours wishes to be able to allow students to do more than 12 weeks of elective clerkships in New York or outside of our own teaching hospitals for that matter, how would we go about gaining approval?
A - Approval for a school that would permit students to do extended clerkships in NYS and grads to do residency training in NYS would begin with a request from your school. Very briefly, the school would submit a comprehensive database covering all aspects of the medical education program. I and other physician and medical school educators would perform a one-week site visit meeting wth faculty, administrators, students, and staff. I would visit affiliatd hospitals here in NYS and any administrative offices in the U.S. I would draft a report that would either approve or disapprove the school and this would be communicated to the school. The cost of the visit would be covered by the school. The process is rather lengthy and very comprehensive. If the report results in approval there are often listed suggestions that we would expect to be acted on by the time of the revisit usually in two years.

Douglas P. ******
Assistant Executive Secretary
N.Y. State Board for Medicine
West Wing, 2nd Floor, Education Bldg.
89 Washingtin Avenue
Albany, NY 12234
(518) 473-4995
d******@mail.nysed.gov

__________________
Class of 2008, 4yr MD
Poznan University of Medical Sciences
Poznan, Poland

Student Website: www.poznanmedicine.org

University Website: www.ump.edu.pl

NY Admissions Office Website: www.mdprogram.com

"Dispel from your mind the thought that an understanding of the human body in every aspect of its structure can be given in words..."

- Leonardo da Vinci