Thread: Can anyone give me the real pros and cons of the 3 Caribbean vet school?

I am having a terrible time trying to decide b/w Ross, SGU, and SMU schools of veterinary medicine. I would appreciate it if some people could tell me what the pros of one school are vs. the others, or the cons for that matter. I am leaning more towards SMU right now, but after reading so much about the easy curriculum, I am slightly apprehensive. When I graduate from the school, and begin working, I want to have just as much knowledge as the students from the U.S. schools. Any replies are much appreciated.

Originally Posted by congomodel

I am having a terrible time trying to decide b/w Ross, SGU, and SMU schools of veterinary medicine. I would appreciate it if some people could tell me what the pros of one school are vs. the others, or the cons for that matter. I am leaning more towards SMU right now, but after reading so much about the easy curriculum, I am slightly apprehensive. When I graduate from the school, and begin working, I want to have just as much knowledge as the students from the U.S. schools. Any replies are much appreciated.

Despite many frustrations that seemed important at the time, but probably were not ultimately that big 'o deal, I can say my experiences at SGU put me on par with those in American schools. I did my 4th year at a top 5 US school and was definitely no worse off as far as most practical skills and knowledge. I was with several Ross students and a few charter members from SMU and they seemed equivalent also. Please understand, though, this is mainly viewed from a level of competency on small animal and equine practice. I can't really comment much on food animal equivalency because I only took 1 (required) rotation in this subject.

Carib schools in general (but mainly SGU b/c that's where I was from):

PRO: International experience and travel (some like it and some don't); equal education (in my opinion); the chance to become a veterinarian where otherwise you might not (likely the most important factor).

CON: INCREDIBLY expensive...cost varies by north american schools, but you will owe roughly twice that of your north american peers; extra hassle of obtaining license to practice via PAVE or ECFVG (LINK); stigma of being a foreign grad (I haven't seen it...but I just graduated and haven't really been trying to get a job yet).

NB: In the next 5 years (or sooner) Ross and SGU (no idea about SMU) will become AVMA accredited. This means that you will have to take NO extra tests for licensing and NO one will be able to tell you your education was not up to par with north american standards. I would also guess that costs will also increase and possibly these schools will become more competitive.

I guess I have probably forgotten some Pro's and Con's here and there...will post if I think of any important ones.

I would probably have to lean toward Ross or SGU because SMU is still kind of new. I know that some of the SMU students have had some recent problems securing loans due to the recent bank/lending 'crisis.'

The best indicator of whether you will be equivalent is not which school you've gone to, but how hard you have studied and how well you do...likely indicated by your GPA. If you have a 4.0 for instance, I promise you you're more "prepared" educationally than someone from Colo State (for instance) who has a 2.5...this doesn't necessarily indicate how good of a veterinarian you'll be.

I think there is a new (4th) carib school...but know nothing about it.

Good luck.



p.s. you should have probably posted in the general veterinary area...unless you just want info on SMU

p.p.s. I am usually almost the only one who posts in the vet area of the forum. There is a yahoo forum for SGU somewhere (I don't know why they chose yahoo when this forum was already up and running...)

I'm not sure where you read about our curriculum being easy, but that's very far from the truth. If you come to SMU, you will find that dozens of our courses are taught by board certified veterinarians, and they are far from being easy when it comes to exam time. People aren't failing out of clinics due to lack of knowledge either. The only people I often hear saying that classes are too easy are those with less than stellar grades, often below 3.0. I'm not sure what their deal is. Anyway, I chose SMU primarily because I was not satisfied with the living conditions in St. Kitts or Grenada. But as discussed earlier it is difficult to secure loans due to the current credit crisis. Our class sizes continue to grow however.

I think the only way that you can make the absolute best decision is to visit the schools. I would at least visit SGU and SMU. It's expensive but the worst thing ever is when students come down to the caribbean and say "I did not know that it was like this or I would never have come". It's a big adjustment from the United States. Good luck!


P.S. - Don't buy into the "Ross and SGU are going to be accredited in the next 5 years." It's a lie. Even IF that happened (and I think it would be great if they did), accreditation is not retroactive. This means that if you're at SGU and the AVMA accredits the school 2 semesters later, you still have to take foreign licensing exams because you entered that school when it was NOT accredited. Ross has been in business for decades and has not gotten AVMA accredited yet. And I think SGU only started in 2001 with their vet school. Yet I have heard administrators and students alike from each of those schools insisting they're getting AVMA accredited. I have never seen a publication mentioning time frames for accreditation. When the University College Dublin was recently accredited, it was just announced that they got the accreditation. I never saw any paper that said "UCD is within such and such years from becoming AVMA accredited!". The only news I hear are that site visits have been made by the AVMA to both SGU and Ross. But they failed. Sorry for dwelling on this topic but it's a very deceitful marketing tool to attract students and I think it's wrong. Expect to take the PAVE and ECFVG if you come here.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

I think the only way that you can make the absolute best decision is to visit the schools. I would at least visit SGU and SMU. It's expensive but the worst thing ever is when students come down to the caribbean and say "I did not know that it was like this or I would never have come". It's a big adjustment from the United States. Good luck!

I agree. It would be ideal to visit before coming down, although expensive.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

P.S. - Don't buy into the "Ross and SGU are going to be accredited in the next 5 years." It's a lie.

Ok, I may have made this statement with too much certainty. More accurately, SGU and Ross are pouring lots of money into AVMA cert and SGU is "restructuring" (I don't think content is changing, mainly nomenclature) to match AVMA expectations. I'd guess Ross is doing the same, don't know. When I was at SGU, we were told 1-3 years which we knew was a load of bull...which is why I thought 5 years was more reasonable. Both Ross and SGU have had preliminary visits by AVMA accrediting officials. The only LINK I could find showing from AVMA. Another LINK from SGU site quoting SGU SVM Dean (near bottom of page) about full site visit in 2009.

It's not a lie! It is my opinion. The only way it won't happen is if these schools stop pursuing it. I believe this will be within 5 years or so.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

Even IF that happened (and I think it would be great if they did), accreditation is not retroactive. This means that if you're at SGU and the AVMA accredits the school 2 semesters later, you still have to take foreign licensing exams because you entered that school when it was NOT accredited.

SGU has payed for several professional types to consult with them who were formerly evaluators for AVMA accreditation. Personal communication with one of these persons, an individual who came to speak about the ECFVG (who works for the AVMA), and many SGU admin state: (paraphrased)

Accreditation is retroactive as long as you have not graduated from said institution. So if you're 1 month from graduating and your school gets accreditation, you do not have to take PAVE or ECFVG.

I briefly tried to google the above to provide some citation. But it didn't come up on the first few...and I don't have the time or energy right now to verify. And yes, I know that if you're 1 month from graduating, you have already taken the PAVE if you wanted to.

I just graduated...so AVMA accred means nothing to me and I benefit none by it. I am doing the ecfvg.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

Ross has been in business for decades and has not gotten AVMA accredited yet.

Because they weren't trying until recently I assume.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

And I think SGU only started in 2001 with their vet school. Yet I have heard administrators and students alike from each of those schools insisting they're getting AVMA accredited.

I heard that you need to have graduated several classes before you're eligible to apply for accred, again, no citation. I think it was 1999. I don't know how this supports your argument.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

I have never seen a publication mentioning time frames for accreditation. When the University College Dublin was recently accredited, it was just announced that they got the accreditation. I never saw any paper that said "UCD is within such and such years from becoming AVMA accredited!".

I am sure that it wasn't a total surprise. Obviously the admin had been pursuing this and had payed for this to occur. They also had site visit(s), the accred process, I believe, is the same for everyone. Although I would guess it was quicker for them.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

The only news I hear are that site visits have been made by the AVMA to both SGU and Ross.

Agreed, referenced above.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

But they failed.

Um, I guess you could put it that way (SGU, no idea about Ross) but I don't think that this was the exact objective. I remember when this occurred as I was still down there and I know that some aspects were probably ok...and some aspects we were "tore a new one." The items for which SGU was "tore a new one" were then, presumably, rectified. Apparently there is another visit this year (2nd link above). I have no idea how that will go.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

Sorry for dwelling on this topic but it's a very deceitful marketing tool to attract students and I think it's wrong. Expect to take the PAVE and ECFVG if you come here.

I am free to express my opinion. I assure you no deceit is intended. I am a new SGU SVM graduate. I am not in any way employed or payed by this university, just a former student who interacted with the admin a lot, and therefore, was privy to many of the details. The Dean of the SVM is actually one of my professional references.

Just wanted to clarify my view. I sometimes wonder if people think I am an employee or something. I was a former moderator of the vet forum here, but not anymore.

The accreditation process is so confusing that depending on who you talk to they will say it's retroactive or it isn't. I don't really know. I really want to see SGU and Ross become accredited, and eventually SMU once we graduate more students. But as you stated earlier they have been saying they're getting accredited soon for quite some time. It certainly encouraged me to visit Ross after they told me that at their informational session. I don't think that it is a "lie" that you are propagating, but I do feel that the schools are not doing the right thing by saying they're getting accredited soon to prospective students. How can a school really know what the outcome of an AVMA site visit will be? They should just say that they are pursuing it and leave it at that.

I apologize if you felt that it was a personal attack on you. It wasn't intended that way.

With that aside I'll provide some more info about my own school:

I'm extremely happy with the education that I have been provided here. But prospective students should keep in mind that SMU is still in its infancy and there are growing pains associated with that.

One of the big advantages that I believe SGU students have is the opportunity to pursue lengthy externships during their summer breaks. My school goes year round and we have 2-3 weeks off between each semester. However many people have participated in 1-2 week internships to gain additional experience.

SGU and Ross have much larger class sizes than SMU. I have learned a lot from being in a small class as there is much more interaction between students and faculty.

I hope this helps a bit. Don't worry about the accreditation because it's confusing obviously. The foreign board exams are not a big deal as long as you prepare for them. Study hard and you'll make it wherever you go.

Just a quick note on accreditation. If a school becomes accredited while a student is enrolled in the school, those students are considered graduates of an accredited school no matter what term they are in at that time. It is not retroactive to those students who have already graduated. Much like all the other SGU grads, I am certain Sisyphus will be successful nonetheless.

St. George's School of Veterinary Medicine is very actively pursing accreditation, and they try to keep current students and prospective students accurately updated with the progress. As mentioned, there are no guarantees until it happens.

Approximately a year and a half ago, SGU had a consultative visit from the AVMA. This was not a visit for approval, so saying that SGU failed is not accurate. It is just one of the steps required in the on-going process. After that visit, the AVMA did supply us with suggestions that they felt we needed to improve on in order for them to come back for their final site visit. Many of the items on the list were similar to reasons that some of the U.S. Veterinary Schools, have been down-graded from "full" to "limited accreditation"

As mentioned, SGU feels it has addressed these items and will be requesting an accreditation site visit this year. Because it can take the AVMA site team 6-8 months to actually schedule their visit, the actual site visit may take place late this year, or early next year.

I hope that helps clears things up.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

But as you stated earlier they have been saying they're getting accredited soon for quite some time. It certainly encouraged me to visit Ross after they told me that at their informational session. I don't think that it is a "lie" that you are propagating, but I do feel that the schools are not doing the right thing by saying they're getting accredited soon to prospective students. How can a school really know what the outcome of an AVMA site visit will be? They should just say that they are pursuing it and leave it at that.

I agree, I would hope that the school is not stating this to lure students in. This is definitely not guaranteed and is not ethical.

Also, you're right about me essentially doing the same thing. I do think this will happen eventually, but I will be more careful with my words also...if it ever arises again.

I am pro-Carib schools, but I don't want to look like I am selling anything, just encouraging people to use these places as an option without worrying about stigma etc.

Originally Posted by howdyag07

SGU and Ross have much larger class sizes than SMU.

Yeah, SGU was pushing 90 or so per class, but I guess this term there are only about 45. The economy I'd guess. My class was about 50, which was definitely an advantage. I've heard Ross classes are quite large also.




I agree...don't let the possibility of accreditation be the deciding factor.