I don't think this will change. The faculty want to guage the performance of students and their faculty with these subject shelf exams...It would be ideal to have students take the exam, and that the exam not be calculated into the final grade. If this were the case not many students would show up for the exam. They would rather study for the final exam... The school then tried to use a carrot (extra points) to encourage students to take the comp, and most people showed up.

Now it is using the shelf exams as part of the grades and well, that is not a new concept. At Ross the subject shelf exams were 15% of your grade. But you had to take only one, and it was a mystery which one you were taking till you sat down to take the test, hence the term "mystery shelf" at Ross. I say get rid of the subject shelf exams and bring back the comp.

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Juni

I wish the comp exam was back. NOT because of the extra points, they can keep them, but because I want to know how I improved. Every semester I have been improving my comp grade it would of been nice to see it now. Having it as a part of your overall grade is a bad idea, you guys will see in a few weeks. The shelf will bring everyones grades down. If you are passing a class witha 71, you will fail because the chance of getting above a 60 (with out a curve) on the shelf is slim to none from talking to people who took it. Ross does give one shelf, but they also curve your final course grade. SMU if not like Ross but lately with the policy changes they are becoming more like Ross.

The one thing I don't agree is how the grading system always changes, that means one semester you can get a 68 and get 4 extra for shelf and pass. Or this semester you get a 70 in a class and you FAIL because of the shelf. Last year when the school went from subject shelf to comp, I was a new SMU student and I went and talked with Dr.N , he told me that most people were getting in the 20's and 30's on the subject shelf at smu, and thus I should only expect to get 2 or 3 extra credit points. But in my opinion the comp is a bit easier because it covers your strong and weak points, a subject specific is just that, specific and its hard. I 2 days you will all see what I am talking about.

Wassup hommie, i hear ya man. I totally agree that sometimes that this school is turning into Ross. But you have to remember Ross has been around for years and they must be doing something right. I am not defending Ross, but simply stating that they doing something right out there. As per our school, we are still babies, and we are still trying to create an identity for ourselves. If SMU, like in the past, decided to pass everybody, our Step 1 scores would reflect their actions, and our school would be looked down upon, and we might loose liscencing as the resulting consequence. Everybody should be happy that they are in Medical School, who cares about the stuff that occurs with administration. Just do your best, and in the end your hard work will pay off.

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It looks like AUC is getting rid of their shelf exams.

Middle of page 4-under "Chance Count" name

I Passed!!! ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

i could not find it in the forum, but that guy was really excited that he passed the exam. It took him 7 semesters to pass basic science, mad props to him lol.

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seems more like they're making it optional... I'm willing to bet >85 percent of the people will still take it. Another 10 percent will oversleep and the rest will complain that they didn't have enough time to study.

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Finally beat Super Mario Bros within 7 mins.

When I was in **, we did not take shelf exams, but I think it is a very good idea with some provisions.

1) You need to take them and have the REAL NBME score reported to you. The school should then curve accordingly for a grade. The problem here is that there are so many lazy b@$t@rad$ in our school that a large percentage will "ride the curve" to a passing grade. Thus, they don't prep at all and will inflate your score, which you really need to be spot on. I've said it once, and I'll say it again... the problem with foreign schools is overwhelmingly with the students and not with the schools. You can't turn chicken crap into chicken salad.

2) These tests are the best measure you will have to gauge your ability to take the questions on the USMLE for that subject. I have seen people with high GPAs fail the USMLE time and time again from Carib schools. Meanwhile, someone from the middle of the pack who has spent the whole time getting ready for the real deal passes with a great score. I feel that if more of us... well... now, you... placed an emphasis on self study then the abismal passing rates would climb dramatically. Make sure that you suppliment each class with a board directed text. Take each class for the material on the shelf and USMLE, not for your course grades. I can't tell you how little PDs care about basic science grades... they almost make fun of them. The material on the boards, however, is derived from real-life, must know material... they take these scores very seriously.

3) In clinicals, we took the shelf after every core. We never got the NBME score, and the grades were obviously curved... very curved.... warped...bent, skewed in fact. I remember taking one exam months after my core and then after a few electives. I had no time to study for it. I walked out concerned about whether or not I had passed. When I got my score... let's just say it was impossibly high... as in the A+++ range. That didn't tell me a thing regarding my readiness for step 2.

The harder our schools are the better. If something makes you work like you've never worked in your life, then you had best just get in line. It's the only way we'll ever have any credibility. We can be "just good enough" you need to make sure that you ALWAYS know the answer... that you are the best student your attending has ever had. You need to show that you have made a change in your life that makes you fit to be a doctor and not some beach bum reject... If you hate the sterotype, then shred it.

Micro,

You are wise beyond your years.

... and because someone is probably pissed that I said what I just said, let me give you an example of why I said it.

A few years ago, an really nasty article was written about a Spartan grad who intubated a woman's esophagus resulting in brain injury from hypoxia. The article said nothing about the fact that this was a common intern mistake, or that his attending should have been looking over his shoulder... the article didn't even mention that this happens all the time, and that is why interns have to be checked off after having done numerous intubation... the article went on and on about how carib schools turn out dangerous doctors who mustn't be inflicted on the public anymore.

You aren't going to be afforded the opportunity to make the common mistakes... you're going to have to be number one. The minute you slip up, no matter how easy it was, or how many did it before you, someone will think it is because you got nothing from school but a tan and an MD.
Sooo.... if people in your class are having trouble with the shelf... start study groups. Sleep less and read more... get your game face on.

RIGHT ON IMG2006. It discouraging on the amount of discrepancies they are between schools and students in the schools. I just wish at times the deans of the schools would read this forum and change the ciriculum that way in order to benefit the students and not their bank accounts.

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