yea. during undergrad when you get GRANTS and use your parents then their high income/ assets/ net worth / yearly income is an issue because it is a needs based GRANT... when you are in grad school chances are you are not dependant anymore and if you do use them as cosigners assets are an assett, unless of course the loan to debt ratio is too high and the income from the properties is too low to be able to make the default payment.

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OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

Correct. Do many loans require cosigners? Back in the day, I got all my loans, even private, without a cosigner. I had no income and no assets. Just curious, I really don't know. G

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AUC Class of '99
Bored certified
I may be a jerk, but I'm a Jedi jerk like my father.

Some say I look like Buzz Lightyear....
(They're right)

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

Yes, you are correct. But, as i remember, Dan got called out as an idiot as well.

AzSkeptic
Thanks for your article. It was very informative. I was a transfer student to Saint James about 2 years ago. I can definitely vouch for the hospital affiliations that it has. I have done rotations at all the hospitals in the Chicago area that they have on their website in these past 2 years. I'm applying for the match for IM this year and have gotten great interviews from many university programs. Our school is headed in the right direction and it is only going to get better. It was established in 99 and had and still has its ups and downs like any new program does over the past 5 years, but it will make it in the end. Keep your heads up and good luck to all the future graduates of SJSM!

I suspect we'll be hearing about the instructor falling through the floor of a 150 year old building for the next few years. You know that ranks right up there with power outages during storms as a basis for denigrating a school. Never mind that the last graduating class has had a 100% pass rate among those who have taken Step 1. I don't know how they did it. Based on all of the regulars on VMD, they were stupid, naive, throwing away their money and...my favorite...doomed to be driving a cab in Canada. Well, hats off to all the stupid people in clinicals. Don't smile too widely when your student loans are paid off by the time you finish residency while all the brilliant doctors from the other schools are still looking at a $200,000 nut.

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well, that is a pretty useless statistic. my school can claim the same thing, as can many schools that don't require people to take step 1 before moving on to clinicals...the real question is how many did not make it to step 1, how many are still waiting to take it, etc...

whether you like it or not, there is some risk to a st james degree, there are places that are forever off limits to these grads, and there are a lot of question marks as to where exactly you can practice. in short, if you have the option of going to a better, more established school, you should strongly consider it.

personally, i will be happy to pay off my debt after graduating (although it is still a lot less than most US and carib students) in exchange for having a far more valuable degree. it is the old argument, value vs. cost. cheaper cost usually (and in this case) means cheaper product.

I am gonna have to disagree with you Neil... When you say cheaper cost means cheaper product you must understand that many of our goals are to obtain a good residency position and practice in a state that we would like to practice in in the future. Whether it is a degree from SGU, SJSM or Cornell, it is still very possible to practice in states such as NJ, IL and NY (which are states that I am looking into). Granted, I would love to have an MD degree from Cornell, but that is not an option available for me. But the opportunity to obtain an MD degree and still be able to practice in the state I wish to practice in is still opened to me with a SJSM MD degree... So the VALUE of a SJSM degree, in many ways (not completely), does hold as much weight as other schools in such instances because my ultimate goal is still very obtainable. If a student wishes to practice in CA or NM and can not get into a US school, then maybe they should look into another caribbean or European school that can get them into such states. But for those of us who are interested in the 44-46/50 other states available for practice, SJSM is not a bad alternative. Not to mention, debt after you get out of Med school IS a big factor to keep in mind. You will be working for the banks for 25 years after med school (my middle name is "Indebt" from undergrad). And don't just think you can easily pay it off as a doctor because in this day and age the average doctor is not making nearly as much money as they used to without killling themselves (I've worked with many Physicians in NY that will tell you this right out the gate). HMOs, malpractice, loans with interest and the rising costs of gas (and BMWs..lol) are keeping Physicians very modest.
Also, just because you are from SJSM and not from SGU, Czech, or Cornell does NOT make you less of a Doctor. It is certainly the individuals duty to study hard, work hard and do what it takes to become a good Physician.
Think about it Neil... Let me know what you think.

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Oh, really? Let's ignore the fallacy in your argument of trying to insert a different issue and address the premise: your school can claim a 100% pass rate for those who have taken Step 1. Odd, I've never heard your school claiming that before.

It is unlikely (and unwise) for any school to claim such success. But only an idiot would miss the point that peole achieved the education they needed to pass the USMLE Step 1 at SJSM (and did so at a fraction of the cost). That is a fact, Bubba. Argue until you are blue in the face (and we know it galls you arrogant souls to no end) but facts are facts.

This is hardly an issue. A significant portion of the people who attend Caribbean medical schools are doing it to appease Mommy and Daddy and don't care about medicine and put forth little effort to learn. We thank them, because their parents are helping keep the tuition costs down for the students who know what they're about. Most of them will not bother to try to take the USMLE Step 1 as they did not study and are ill-prepared for it. To try to make that an issue is nonsense and only demonstrates how low a person can sink in their propaganda. And NeilC, you do suck hind teat in that department. But I do rank you just ahead of AzSkeptic.

No issue with that at all. See? It isn't hard to be a non-[insert favorite anatomical descriptive word]. Logic dictates that a student will go to the best school that s/he can. I'm all in favor of students attempting to gain admission to the top schools. Heck, I'd even advocate that they ought to wait out a year or two on a wait list for a US medical school. But when a student decides to pursue an education off-shore, I think they ought to be able to do some research and get honest appraisals of the different schools. Unfortunately, Value MD has proven that is virtually impossible. VMD courts postings from the video game playing genre with the myopic witicisms of the pimply-faced masturbators who think their bon mots are etching their names in posterity. Here's a little insight to that group...those of us who know better, know better. Dance all you want, you're still unimpressive.

Well, Dude...there are highly educated individuals who don't care what MP3 you would take to a deserted island, that read these inane postings to see what kind of intellect attends the different schools. I am proud to be associated, however obliquely, with the people who have chosen SJSM. Their individual credentials do not need any validation from the likes of me. They are there because they want their MD and they don't feel like paying a ridiculous amount of money for a library they'll never use and some state's approval that is based on politically motivated discrimination. If you find that "too in your face" go in the corner and ask yourself, "Why doesn't that man ease up?" My answer..."You have proven yourself to be insignificant." This is me, flipping my nose at you. Worse, for your argument, is a 100% pass rate.

It still isn't a US medical school, is it, Bubba? Yet, I think it's a notch above SGU and Ross, etc. As you stated, you don't owe as much as those scholars. Which supports my arguments...why pay an astronomical amount of money for something you can get far cheaper? If you think doing your first 2 years at an expensive school gets your foot in the door at any residency, go read NaggingWife's lament that her husband isn't getting in at Johns Hopkins. Big surprise. A topnotch declining a Caribbean student. Too bad Mrs. Dr. didn't see that coming. And they're schmucks?

Too bad you haven't come up with a better defense. No argument that there are valid reasons to attend a school with an established reputation. But you can't argue with the fact that there are people who don't care...and don't need...your silly rationales for one wschool versus another. The bottom line is that any medical school is simply a ticket to a seat at the USMLE and if you want to deceive yourself, go ahead, but don't try to blow smoke up my dress.

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Life is sexually transmitted.

so, you are saying the pass rate should only be calculated by those who sit the exam? hmmm. that is pretty weak, IMHO. if a student is ill prepared, they will simply not sit the exam, therefore giving you a pass rate that is not indicative of how well the students were educated at the school. self selection. bad results. disagree? fine. i don't really care. but, i think that most people considering a school would rather see a 90% pass rate of all students in a class compared to 100% pass rate for the 5 students out of 100 that took the exam.

if you think an offshore school is simply a ticket to the USMLE, i would consider you very short sighted. the usmle is only important score wise one time (when applying for residency). however, the degree issued to you will follow you (as will the limits it carries) for the duration of your carreer.

don't really care too much about who goes to st james or why. if you want to pay less and recieve less, then by all means knock yourself out. but, as you pointed out, there are better options with less restrictions, so it seems that you agree with my main points anyhow.

If you find that pretty weak, then you are objecting to the way every school calculates its pass rate. If 20 apples show up to take the exam and 10 apples pass the exam, there is a 50% pass rate. Now, if you want to say 20 apples showed up to take the exam, but 7 oranges didn't, then you have an issue that isn't relevant to those that tried to test. Most people understand that simple fact, but you can wrestle with it some more if you want to.

Do I think that any medical school is simply a ticket to the USMLE? Yes, I do. Now, if I had a choice to go to a school with polished floors, a great HVAC system and 10 foot wide parking spaces, I'd go there in a hearttbeat over a place where your chair might fall through the floor. But not if that school charged an exorbitant fee for those luxuries because I'm the one paying the fees, not my parents. Now, I can make that choice because I don't care what some states have determined, I only care what the licensing requirments are in one state are (and possibly a couple of other states where I might want to practice should I decide to move). Would I pay three to four times more for a seat at the USMLE for the right to practice in a state I don't even care to visit? Don't hold your breath waiting for THAT answer.

Now, you can live the rest of your life snubbing your nose at people who didn't attend your school. Lord knows, you already have enough company, as evidence by the numerous regular posters on VMD. And God bless 'em, there will be enough people who think your way to keep those seats occupied. The rationales used for attending these schools would sound great if they were true. But most intelligent people will do their own reseach, call licensing boards and review the administrative laws and discover facts versus propaganda.

Do I think any medical school is simply a ticket to the USMLE? Yes, I do. I haven't forgotten the rationale behind the 80% attendance rule. It must have been hard to justify the grants, high salaries and luxurious buildings if all the students were staying home to study on their own and passing all of the courses. Does the school matter? Maybe, if you need your hand held to get through the program.

But maybe, if you do your own legwork and you know what you want and are mature enough to do what's required, you can choose whatever school fits your needs. Just don't come to VMD to discuss it because these jackals are too prissy to accept your decision.

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Life is sexually transmitted.