i am happy to acknowledge the fact that some people do very well at these schools. kudos to them!

but, the fact remains, that unless you are in a situation that requires it, you should avoid the potential problems.

all i have ever said, is that these schools should clearly not be a first choice. there are better options. if these other options do not work out for whatever reason and you are aware of the risks and limitations of a new school, and still wish to attend it...well, by all means, have a go at it! (note: i still do not believe that folks truly exhaust the better options first. they convince themselves that this new school is fine, that all will work out in the end, and then get upset at us for pointing out the obvious limitations that they don't want to admit exist....but, that is a whole 'nother story)

i just get peeved when these schools try to pass themselves off as an equal alternative to the proven entities, or try to minimize the risk. be straightforward, and i have no issues...you will notice that i never comment on SMU. they have similar limitations, but the admin is totally up front, and there is no hard sell or diversionary tactics. they say it like it is, and let the potential students make an informed decision.

anyhow, sure, theoretically it is possible to do well from the lower-tier schools. people do it all the time. but, it seems foolish to attempt to be the first, or one of the 10 or 20 grads from a school that happened to succeed despite the odds, when you can be one of the 500+ that succeed each year from the better schools.

who cares if we have been there? that has ZERO to do with the issues that i urge folks to consider.

i am sure there are happy people there....what i am trying to prevent is somebody going there with delusions (well, that is already happening with that first year dude that is going to cure cancer and get 100% on the boards...) that come from unrealistic expectations.

as far as what i consider important in a school, most of the non-established schools do not have pertinent positive features. i don't care if the student teacher ratio is great, or the island is nice, or that there is a grad with a radio talk show, or that the dean will cut the crust off of my peanut butter sandwiches. what i feel is important is the licensure issue, the history of placements and usmle results, and a trustworthy admin.

the school may get you where you are going. it is risky. if you can't go anywhere established, or if you want the risk, go for it.

............................

I'm out to be the best cardiac surgeon that has ever lived! That is not unrealistic, and I don't care what anyone else thinks about it.

I'm not out to discover the cure for cancer, although it is certainly a worthy goal. I really hope someone is pursuing it, and I wish them the best. They can do it!

How do you think we got to the moon? Ambition is great!

Best wishes!

ambition is great i agree it will get you many things in life....but you also need a healthy dose of realism so that the fall from the thoracic surgery fellowship to urban health isn't too steep...hehe

you can probably be the best surgeon i don't doubt it......but since none of our grades were good enough to get into a US school it is not 'probable'...i wonder what the vegas odds would be if a SJ/SC/AUC/Ross etc grad did become a world famous CT surgeon?

__________________
OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

well, even if you are the best that ever lived, you will still need to get that license to practice. you will still need to get that residency position first. and, even before all of that, you still need to pass the usmle.

so, sure, it is possible...but, coming from this school, even if you do make it (better sign up for that review course, lol), you WILL be limited as to where you can even work. CA, TX, KS and NM are all pretty much out for sure...

it is great that you have the optimism...but, for other more realistic folks out there, they really should consider the path of least resistence. what you as a first year thinks is a reasonable goal...well, lets just say that a bit further down the line you will see that there are many, many variables that can get in the way of your dreams. it is best to eliminate as many of those as possible, and do it early in the game.

Neilc, dude, I don't buy it... You are trying to come out as some sort of saviour, trying to help out potential students and you know this is all **, dude...

Everyone and their grandmother knows that if you choose a school such as St. James or Spartan, you will not get licensed in CA. No one goes to these schools thinking they can get CA licensure.

You, Picard and rrod are going around this forum bashing every school that is not on your "established" list and the three of you do not know crap about any of these schools...

In fact, you and rrod are still medical students. Who knows how well you are going to do from AUC or the Czech republic, you might not make it into residency and you might become used car salesmen or you might make it into your last choice, who knows??

There are people from these little schools that not only beat out sgu, Ross, AUC, etc grads for USA residency spots but they beat out USA grads for those spots, including grads from Ivy league schools. Where do you guys get off passing judgement on these schools?

Neilc, you are now a 5th year medical student. There are people from Spartan, right now, at this moment, that started, at the same time as you started, neilc, that are now 2nd year residents. In fact, when you are a first year resident, if you make it, that is, which hopefully you will be accepted, one of those Spartan or St. James residents, that started at the same time as you, could be you chief or your attending...

You guys are going are acting like your schools are so great, just because you have CA approval. And why all the bashing?? Very simple, because you want to help people, the prospective student, BSSSSSS!!!! For you guys, it is a matter of one-up-manship... "Yeah, we are better than you..." We went to more "eslablished" schools, you guys didn't....

Give me a break. If you guys made it into USA schools, you would be just like USA grads which I know, which are always on a high horse because they graduated from a USA medical school. Same crap, different smell... And if you neilc, made it into a USA school, you would saying, you would be the most annoying person on the planet, because your head would bigger than the Jupiter... But you didn't make it into a USA medical school, you are in the Czech republic, a cold, 6-year program, with crappy Czech rotations, in the middle of former communist Eastern Europe and still your head is as big as the moon... you haven't even graduated yet, all this arrogance and bashing and one-up-manship is from a medical student??? Gosh, I do not want to see when you are a physician.

I visited many of these carib schools including SMU, Saba, AUC, etc, etc, medical schools is Belize, India, Costa Rica, etc... I highly recommend that before you pass judgement on smplace that you have never been to, that yopu try and keep an open mind... Some of these places might really surprise you and then you might learn why some people opt to go to these places, in spite of not having approval in CA and a couple of other states... When you se more, then you have something to compare against.. Or you can always close your minds, limit yourselves to your so-called "established" schools and annoy the heck out of everyone that wants to go to and goes to these littler schools...

Certainly, some negativity is required and all schools should be judged but you guys are just toooo much. Have you ever realised that passing judgement and bashing is almost all you do, in this forum??? I mean whenever there is bashing I can always count you guys, neilc, rrod, Picard... You guys should start your own bashing club and select highly qualified applicants. You could even charge for your bashing services, why not??? You are going to do it anyway, might as well get paid for it.... -s&a

nice non-sensical rant....you yell at me for passing judgement on schools that i have never seen, yet in most of your posts to me, all you can do is talk about communism and weather in the czech republic. you really have an eye for focusing on the important details regarding offshore schools. the fact is, most of the information you need in order to make a good decision about which school to attend DOES NOT REQUIRE A VISIT OR AN OPEN MIND.

you really think i gain something from this? or i am propping up my ego? dude, really....i do not see myself as something special, or as some savior. nor do i think i attend some super-special school...i simply remember all to well the ** i went through while looking at med schools. and, i remember how easy it was to WANT something to be a good idea when it really wasn't. i remember all the ** dishonest admin and student lackeys used to dish out, simply to get more tuition to prop up their dodgy schools. thankfully, i stayed away from the worst of them, and wound up at a decent place....but, i could still have done better!

again, since you have yet to pay attention:
1. i do not promote my school at the expense of these schools. i am happy to point out the limitations of my school...
2. regardless of how you feel about it, my intentions are simply to make sure that folks are not swindled by folks like you...claiming that anything is possible from anywhere. sure, anything is possible. but, there are EASIER WAYS TO DO IT!!!!
3. CA approval may not be the be-all end-all, but it is a very good guage of how well recieved you may be in the US
4. one does not need to visit the schools to comment on the viability of the degree...you keep saying go visit, but that would be a total waste of time and money. if a school cannot meet basic requirements, than it DOES NOT MATTER what the facilities are like, how many profs there are, etc...these are secondary concerns.
5. some students do very well from these second tier schools, but THEY ARE A SELECT MINORITY!!!


now, pull yourself together. nobody is bashing. the FACT is that there are many fundamental concerns with these schools. there may be students that succeed despite the odds. that is awesome. i would haze ZERO problem with one of these students as my chief....however, what i DO have a problem with is when students and admin try to minimize potential obstacles and attempt to lure students to sub-par schools.

again, i am sorry that your school sucks. i am sorry that some people have to go and work twice as hard to make it from these second rate schools. if they succeed, i am stoked for them. but, POTENTIAL STUDENTS SHOULD BE AWARE OF ALL THE POTENTIAL PROBLEMS!!

please stop trying to minimize things by saying "oh, the island is great" or "but what about student faculty ratio" or "well, i know of 20 grads that are working in the states of louisianna, mississippi and arkansas" or whatever other such nonsense you will come up with.

which of these points do you disagree with???
1. go to an established school with a history of passing the usmle and placing many grads in good residencies
2. go to a school with licensed grads in every state, because you never know where your next job will come from, or what states may adopt CA guidelines.
3. go to a school with a trustworthy admin

now, i (and many others) think that those three issues are far and away the most important. and, there are MANY schools that meet them. so, if there are many schools that meet the most important requirements, than the second tier schools are left behind. students should be aware of this before they decide to go to spartan, because there are so many nice profs, it is cheap and on a nice island...well, that is all fine and dandy, but THOSE ISSUES ARE SECONDARY!!!

so, students....go to the spartans and st james and st chris as a last resort! if you do have to go there, or if you are already there, do the best you can and kick butt dispite the odds. but, if you can, it is prob best to avoid them in order to have a more secure future, and a better chance at working in the US.

name one thing that any of the 'chronic bashers' say that must be verified by going to a school. i am a new 6th semester student, i don't misrepresent myself, and don't speak above my level of understanding.....also see my posts on the smu site? they differ bc of the content on the site...no ** and sunshine being blown in any 'rectii'... 8)

__________________
OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

Einstein was not from Harvard!