Thread: For those matching in 2015 or later...

For those going into their second year, or those who are starting in August, I'm curious how you feel about being at Saint George's given the difficulties that could come with matching in 2015 and beyond.

For me, it seems like a risky proposition - the unknown of whether enough spots will be available and if I'll be able to get one of them. Part of me has this fear about being down there and then there being some rash decision during year 2 that only US-trained students are going to be able to match.

Anyway, I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I'd like to get a sense of where others in the same boat are at with this. If you're a current student, are you paying any mind to the prospect of what could happen with residencies? For those going down in August, is this playing into your decision?

Originally Posted by Agent Cooper

That's a hell of a better chance of obtaining residency than I had before I started at SGU - which, seeing as I got into no other schools, would've put my chances of matching around, say, 0%.

QFT

Preach it brutha...

Originally Posted by TheFooBar

Now for this purpose I'm only caring about people who matched into a non-prelim residency. Assuming the 786 is correct that means 55 (!) (7% of matched student) students from SGU didn't match into something that includes a PGY-2 year. (Specifically there are 55 fewer entries on the 2012 PGY-1 list that the 2013 PGY-2 list).

Originally Posted by Agent Cooper

That's a hell of a better chance of obtaining residency than I had before I started at SGU - which, seeing as I got into no other schools, would've put my chances of matching around, say, 0%.

Let's keep in mind that in addition to the 7% of matched students, who only matched for a prelim spot and are in real danger of being unemployed in a year and ending up not residency-trained and not board-eligible in anything, there is also an unknown number of students who did not match at all, not even a prelim spot and we will never really know that percentage. We can come up with some rough estimates, my guess is that the 2012 graduating class has 900+ people so based on the match list there are at least 150 people who do not have a residency spot that leads to licensure. Granted, some people are doing research and there are some prematches that are not on the list, but it's still not a good situation. Next year there will be no prematches so we will have more accurate numbers.

Nobody is going to argue that you have a better chance of getting a residency if you attend medical school than if you attend Mrs. Pumpkin's Jack-o-Lantern Carving School. The difference is that attending SGU comes with a price tag of at least 1/4 million dollars while Mrs. Pumpkin doesn't charge you anything and will give you free room and board.

I don't yet know what my fate will be next March, whether I'll match into my specialty of choice or even match at all. As of now, I don't regret my decision to attend SGU. It's a good school, especially considering the alternatives, and it's definitely given me a really good education and strong enough foundation to become a competent and caring doctor.

The issue for me is the discrimination we face as SGU students. It's the fundamental flaw of the system and it boggles the mind. Essentially if you had an illness, family problems, or just lacked focus, or didn't yet know what you wanted to do with your life... at age 19... and tanked your uGPA, you are shut out of LCME schools. So your only chance was SGU. Let's leave DO aside for now because for some people, including me, DO was not one of the cards on the table for a variety of reasons, even though getting into DO school was as real as getting into SGU. After a lot of hard work, a strong and unblemished academic record at SGU, you graduate at age 30 and you are essentially still being punished for what happened when you were 19. As a group SGU students who have made it past basic sciences are indistinguishable from lower- and majority of mid-tier LCME school students, as far as scores and knowledge and clinical skills, and we have the added qualities of grit and determination, but we are treated like third-class dirt.

Originally Posted by Phrenetic

As a group SGU students who have made it past basic sciences are indistinguishable from lower- and majority of mid-tier LCME school students, as far as scores and knowledge and clinical skills, and we have the added qualities of grit and determination, but we are treated like third-class dirt.

I don't really agree with this. Yes, we simply will not be considered for a large number of residencies (this was a fact before you started in the caribbean and will remain so after you graduate). However, as physicians (resident or attending), from what I have observed from rotating all over the place, no one cares where you went to school.

Originally Posted by axiomofchoice

I don't really agree with this. Yes, we simply will not be considered for a large number of residencies (this was a fact before you started in the caribbean and will remain so after you graduate). However, as physicians (resident or attending), from what I have observed from rotating all over the place, no one cares where you went to school.

I don't see how you disagree with me. I wasn't talking about what happens after residency, that's pretty much beyond the scope of this thread. Sure we will be treated as equals once we are attendings, but we can't really get there without a residency.

Originally Posted by Phrenetic

Nobody is going to argue that you have a better chance of getting a residency if you attend medical school than if you attend Mrs. Pumpkin's Jack-o-Lantern Carving School. The difference is that attending SGU comes with a price tag of at least 1/4 million dollars while Mrs. Pumpkin doesn't charge you anything and will give you free room.

Well I kinda disagree with that idea...I think that is EXACTLY the person who should come to an offshore school...of they should be well aware about their chances and the real risks of not matching and not being able to practice in the US...it was the question that was the uppermost in my mind when I was deciding on whether to go off shore...AT THE TIME...AND THIS IS KEY...it seemed that I had a pretty good chance of getting what I wanted in terms of specialty (and realize I was thinking ob/gyn at the time) even if I had to be less choosy about WHERE I trained...hence my decision to go foreign MD...I would have to say its a different ball game today...for those currently in med school, it sucks that such a shift has occure while theyare in school but they just have to try and hope for the best...but for those contemplating going in NOW? be damn sure you are willing to do this KNOWING that there could be a good chance you don't match on the 1st try, that you may have to do something like research or a prelim yr to get the chance to get a residency or even, worse case scenario...you don't get a residency ever.

BUT the silver lining is something that axiom alluded to...once you ARE a honest to god physician, licensed to practice, you are not considered a 2nd or 3rd class citizen...those differences DO melt away...your collegues aren't going to care where you went to school, they just want to know you are someone they can work with...willing to do consults, admit their pts, willing to consult them, etc., your staff isn't going to care where you went to school, they want to know that you answer their pages, follow up on concerns, and talk to your pts and their families...you pts are not gonna care where you went to school...they want to know you care about how they are doing, that you explain things to them and their families, and that you are doing what you need to do to make them better...problem is that you have to be a resident before you get to be an attending...

Originally Posted by rokshana

Well I kinda disagree with that idea...I think that is EXACTLY the person who should come to an offshore school...of they should be well aware about their chances and the real risks of not matching and not being able to practice in the US...it was the question that was the uppermost in my mind when I was deciding on whether to go off shore...AT THE TIME...AND THIS IS KEY...it seemed that I had a pretty good chance of getting what I wanted in terms of specialty (and realize I was thinking ob/gyn at the time) even if I had to be less choosy about WHERE I trained...hence my decision to go foreign MD...I would have to say its a different ball game today...for those currently in med school, it sucks that such a shift has occure while theyare in school but they just have to try and hope for the best...but for those contemplating going in NOW? be damn sure you are willing to do this KNOWING that there could be a good chance you don't match on the 1st try, that you may have to do something like research or a prelim yr to get the chance to get a residency or even, worse case scenario...you don't get a residency ever.

BUT the silver lining is something that axiom alluded to...once you ARE a honest to god physician, licensed to practice, you are not considered a 2nd or 3rd class citizen...those differences DO melt away...your collegues aren't going to care where you went to school, they just want to know you are someone they can work with...willing to do consults, admit their pts, willing to consult them, etc., your staff isn't going to care where you went to school, they want to know that you answer their pages, follow up on concerns, and talk to your pts and their families...you pts are not gonna care where you went to school...they want to know you care about how they are doing, that you explain things to them and their families, and that you are doing what you need to do to make them better...problem is that you have to be a resident before you get to be an attending...

Maybe I'm super dense today or maybe people just really want to disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing. Rok, I don't see where anything you've written doesn't agree with what I wrote.

so, this seems like a silly question, but I want to ask anyways. If and when I get a residency, how much does the location of that residency matter in terms of me getting an actual job? probably fairly important huh? Now, I dont expect to jump from a residency at some podunk hospital all the way to professor at a large academic center overnight. But, after your residency & becoming a board certified whatever, do the inequities of the priviledged still reign supreme? or is a doctor essentially free to move about the country &/or at a center of their choice?

Originally Posted by Earthling

so, this seems like a silly question, but I want to ask anyways. If and when I get a residency, how much does the location of that residency matter in terms of me getting an actual job? probably fairly important huh? Now, I dont expect to jump from a residency at some podunk hospital all the way to professor at a large academic center overnight. But, after your residency & becoming a board certified whatever, do the inequities of the priviledged still reign supreme? or is a doctor essentially free to move about the country &/or at a center of their choice?

well, academic medicine is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...its not to say that you can't come from the podunk residency to top of the heap u, but that will be more difficult than just setting out your shingle to practice ...but its doable.

Originally Posted by Phrenetic

Maybe I'm super dense today or maybe people just really want to disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing. Rok, I don't see where anything you've written doesn't agree with what I wrote.

well, it kinda sounded like you were saying that even if you don't have an option in the US, you still don't think that coming down to the caribbean is all that wise...or was i being dense?(its possible, its been a long day...).

Originally Posted by Phrenetic

Nobody is going to argue that you have a better chance of getting a residency if you attend medical school than if you attend Mrs. Pumpkin's Jack-o-Lantern Carving School. The difference is that attending SGU comes with a price tag of at least 1/4 million dollars while Mrs. Pumpkin doesn't charge you anything and will give you free room and board.

Yes... I believe she puts you in a pumpkin shell
and there, she keeps you very well.

Ahhhh, that made me laugh, as I was just reading "Peter, Peter, Pumpkin Eater" to my daughter before nap time this afternoon. Good times.

I am not at SGU, obviously, but coming from another far-off segment of the IMG/FMG world. Looking at the situation as it is changing with residency in the US, if I was entering medical school now, would I choose to come here? Hell, no. The only benefit I have from being here is an EU diploma, which does offer some intriguing practice options, but I really feel for the serious North American kids who have entered here the past year or three. SGU is a little bit different animal, of course, but it's a sobering reality facing anyone at an overseas medical school in the coming few years. I wish all of us success.